remember that they don't have the same access to information and the same lvl of education as we do. so from their perspective, if you show them a video of the koran burning and then tell them, that the reason american troops are devouring their country is because all americans hate islam, they are likly to believe it. that doesn't change that i condemn thier actions. the most effective way of censorship is distraction, something the US gov and media has mastered very well.
i think they have been punished. but they are but the tip of the iceberg. now to the question why the afghan people reacted so violently to the burning of the koran. this was merly the drop that make the barrel overflow. it's sry plain stupid to assume that people form a lynchmob just because of ONE thing. if you push them around, kill the their innocent relatives etc. and then insult them severly, they will think that did all the other things because you like to trample around on them.
and we probably never bloodly know.... which makes me angry.... i'm cuming around to your way of thinking, government shouldn't be able to cover that up. human being lifes are worth more than someone saving face. glad i watched it,
how is these men not being punished? i'm speechless, one book causes this? how can a man sit and smile while holding a dead man's head? and these are the army men who repersents countries from all over the world? they're barely human if they can do that. where the punishment for their behaviour? poeple can't let this go or more poeple are gonna die while men take photos and smile. it a book i'm a christain and you can burn the bible if you want, not my bible its your own, you bought it,
@TheMrsLunarmonkey Actually, I don't know whether any of the men on the kill teams have been punished, or the men who sent them out to do these things. I hope they have, but I haven't heard anything.
@Mhabalzizhari We shouldn't be emulated. There is certainly nothing in me worth emulating. The average American is a bit of a self-absorbed, dull-witted doofus (as, to be fair, is the average Kazakh or Filipino or whatever). Why would anyone want to be like us?
But the ideas...those are precious. Freedom of speech, of conscience, of assembly...those are worthy of emulation.
@Mhabalzizhari "You are applying a civilized concept to uncivilized people"
Yes I am, and I'm gonna keep on doing it. They aren't incapable of acting like civilized people, they're just unwilling, and I have no patience for that. Not that Terry Jones or the kill squads are exemplars of civilzation themselves, mind...
@MikaelDryden That might be an interesting video in itself, mightn't it? I'd like to see his reaction.
I have to confess to being old-fashioned, though...when I see someone burning a book, I automatically think "fascist," even if the book is the Bible or the Koran. I hate religion as much as anyone, but I hate book-burning even more (which is aside from the fact that book-burning is almost always religiously motivated).
Thanks for mirroring that video. It's only because images like that are held off western screens that the public outcry at warmongering isn't stronger. Strong enough to make war a harder sell. Politicians would face a lot more opposition if images like those were on the nightly news.
@OgreVI I'll definitely be doing that. And here's one I just found tonight. This is the first upload, I'm definitely hoping for more. It's a tribute song for Christopher Hitchens. It has 80's indie girl anthem written all over it. If you like that kind of thing (and I still love the 80's!): /watch?v=c_KeOhFd_DM
You know when I might flag a video? Someone does a video dropping docs on a user who wants to their identity to remain private. Or MAYBE a physical threat on someone's life. Other than those and possibly some related circumstances, I can't understand flagging.
It's contrasts like this that I think put lie to, at least to some extent, the argument that the responses to things like drawings of Mohammad, or the burning of the Koran, or terrorism itself aren't religiously motivated, but are instead a reaction to western imperialist oppression.While western imperialist oppression contributes to the problem, I think it's pretty clear what actually works them into a frenzy that would motivate them into blowing themselves up to kill civilians.
@TheNakedAtheist I'm sure western imperialism has made its share of enemies, but you're right, it's silly when people pretend that religious fundamentalism has nothing to do with it. I don't understand how people can believe that.
Yeah I'm not arguing we haven't contributed to the hostility, but anyone who thinks that that would be enough to motivate 17 middle class men, many of whom were college educated, to kill themselves by crashing planes into buildings without the religious belief that they were defending Islam, and would be rewarded in paradise, is kidding themself.
Oh btw your link to SgtDICTION's channel has a period at the end of it which makes the link not work.
@TheNakedAtheist Heh. Like I say, easily confused. I'll go fix it, and thanks for the heads-up.
I have this argument with my friend Mrs. D all the time. She reminds me of our peaceful mutual Muslim friends, and I say, "Religion doesn't ALWAYS cause violence, and it isn't the ONLY cause of violence. But if there was no religion, September 11 would have been just another day."
@OgreVI-She reminds me of our peaceful mutual Muslim friends
Whenever I hear that term it reminds me of an old joke my father once told me, and I think the analogy goes for any religion. The joke goes as follows: Tonto, and the Lone ranger have been chased into a box canyon by savage Indians. The Lone Ranger says to Tonto "I guess this is the end for us old friend", and Tonto replies "what do you mean us pale face". How friendly would those friends be if we woke up in a theocracy tomorrow? :p
@TheNakedAtheist Well, I'm confident that they wouldn't, you know, come kill me for being an atheist. Would they object if I was arrested or lost my job because I'm an atheist? I really believe that they would, but...hypothetical questions are difficult, you know? I trust them, but I bet a lot of people who didn't hate Jews kept quiet when the Gestapo came 'round.
That joke was one of my dad's favorites. Thanks for reminding me of it.
@AncientAtheist Yeah, I don't understand the urge to flag. You don't like something, turn it off. Hit the "back" button on your browser and it disappears. Senseless.
@StanMarsh1 I can't say I would never block anyone, because I've only ever gotten one negative comment (and one other guy who just quoted Scripture at me, which I'm sure HE didn't mean to be negative), so I don't know how bad that gets. But it is hard to imagine me blocking anyone.
I'm sure I'll never flag anyone, though...I just don't get that at all. I don't even know why that feature exists. Very bad idea on the part of YouTube.
@SgtDICTION Hey, my friend Justin (fresh home from Afghanistan) commented on the link to this video at my Facebook, and since he was really talking to you, I'm quoting it here: "Good stuff! That's why I have always questioned faith. Way too much influence placed on a book that was written thousands of years ago."
Makes me sad that we are in a situation where it would make more sense for protests to be directed at our soldiers than at a random book burning in some random place in florida. It makes me even more sad that the protests that did occur cause a lot of deaths. Finally, I am very angry that American Soldiers did such a horrid thing. I am extremely angry that they are all in a situation where that seemed like a way to win.
@Meatbag211 Yeah, there's plenty of ugliness to go around. I had hoped that this whole thing would finally convince people to bring the soldiers home, but I guess that isn't gonna happen.
@OgreVI It's why I voted for obama, to bring the troops home. Now I got four buddies going to afghanistan soon. I really don't know what military goals folks are trying to achieve. We sure as hell aren't winning hearts and minds.
@Meatbag211 The "mission" in Afghanistan is notoriously murky. I have a friend who just came home, and he doesn't have any idea what he was doing there.
remember that they don't have the same access to information and the same lvl of education as we do. so from their perspective, if you show them a video of the koran burning and then tell them, that the reason american troops are devouring their country is because all americans hate islam, they are likly to believe it. that doesn't change that i condemn thier actions. the most effective way of censorship is distraction, something the US gov and media has mastered very well.
beyondEV 8 months ago
i think they have been punished. but they are but the tip of the iceberg. now to the question why the afghan people reacted so violently to the burning of the koran. this was merly the drop that make the barrel overflow. it's sry plain stupid to assume that people form a lynchmob just because of ONE thing. if you push them around, kill the their innocent relatives etc. and then insult them severly, they will think that did all the other things because you like to trample around on them.
beyondEV 8 months ago
@beyondEV
Maybe. I'll let you take that up with Sarge. Have you been to see his channel?
OgreVI 8 months ago
Burning books is no longer offensive. False Flagging, DMCA & Privacy Fails are the 'new' burning of books.
calmreason 9 months ago
Forgive us for restating the obvious:
Burning books is offensive.
Murder is offensive.
Weighing one against the other is offensive- we refuse the ploy.
What is most offensive of all is the suppression of speech.
Not all speech is protected, but even offensive speech may be so
[Johnson v. State of Texas].
Protected speech is protected absolutely.
Period.
WetlandsRemediation 10 months ago
@WetlandsRemediation Extraordinarily well-said. Thank you for your comment.
OgreVI 10 months ago
and we probably never bloodly know.... which makes me angry.... i'm cuming around to your way of thinking, government shouldn't be able to cover that up. human being lifes are worth more than someone saving face. glad i watched it,
TheMrsLunarmonkey 10 months ago
@TheMrsLunarmonkey Thanks for saying so!
OgreVI 10 months ago
@TheMrsLunarmonkey Actually at least one of the soldiers has been sentenced to 24 years. He made a deal to testify against his friends.
SgtDICTION 10 months ago
how is these men not being punished? i'm speechless, one book causes this? how can a man sit and smile while holding a dead man's head? and these are the army men who repersents countries from all over the world? they're barely human if they can do that. where the punishment for their behaviour? poeple can't let this go or more poeple are gonna die while men take photos and smile. it a book i'm a christain and you can burn the bible if you want, not my bible its your own, you bought it,
TheMrsLunarmonkey 10 months ago
@TheMrsLunarmonkey Actually, I don't know whether any of the men on the kill teams have been punished, or the men who sent them out to do these things. I hope they have, but I haven't heard anything.
OgreVI 10 months ago
@Mhabalzizhari We shouldn't be emulated. There is certainly nothing in me worth emulating. The average American is a bit of a self-absorbed, dull-witted doofus (as, to be fair, is the average Kazakh or Filipino or whatever). Why would anyone want to be like us?
But the ideas...those are precious. Freedom of speech, of conscience, of assembly...those are worthy of emulation.
That wasn't Sarge's point, but it's mine.
OgreVI 10 months ago
@WTSfailzTOyou True enough. I'll be back to fun soon.
OgreVI 10 months ago
1) Stop smoking when you'r on screen
2) Watch my vlog, up in about 2 hours, a surprise for you......
goxster 10 months ago
@goxster
1) Can't do it.
2) I will. Now I'm excited!
OgreVI 10 months ago
@Mhabalzizhari "You are applying a civilized concept to uncivilized people"
Yes I am, and I'm gonna keep on doing it. They aren't incapable of acting like civilized people, they're just unwilling, and I have no patience for that. Not that Terry Jones or the kill squads are exemplars of civilzation themselves, mind...
OgreVI 10 months ago
Terry Jones put the koran on trial and found it guilty...
I bet he wouldn't like if we put his precious bible on trial...and find it guilty(which we would)
MikaelDryden 10 months ago
@MikaelDryden That might be an interesting video in itself, mightn't it? I'd like to see his reaction.
I have to confess to being old-fashioned, though...when I see someone burning a book, I automatically think "fascist," even if the book is the Bible or the Koran. I hate religion as much as anyone, but I hate book-burning even more (which is aside from the fact that book-burning is almost always religiously motivated).
OgreVI 10 months ago
I have...I am filled ineffable rage about the murders and atrocities shown here.
BibleRefuter 10 months ago
@BibleRefuter As you should be.
OgreVI 10 months ago
Thanks for mirroring that video. It's only because images like that are held off western screens that the public outcry at warmongering isn't stronger. Strong enough to make war a harder sell. Politicians would face a lot more opposition if images like those were on the nightly news.
DaithiDublin 10 months ago
@DaithiDublin And that, of course, is why they aren't on the nightly news.
Well, if you liked his vid, check out his channel. He's pretty new, but he's doing good work.
OgreVI 10 months ago
@OgreVI I'll definitely be doing that. And here's one I just found tonight. This is the first upload, I'm definitely hoping for more. It's a tribute song for Christopher Hitchens. It has 80's indie girl anthem written all over it. If you like that kind of thing (and I still love the 80's!): /watch?v=c_KeOhFd_DM
DaithiDublin 10 months ago
@DaithiDublin Oh, man, when I'm his age I hope some girl like that is writing songs like that about me. Hell, I wish someone was doing it now!
OgreVI 10 months ago
@OgreVI I hear ya, brother! ;¬)
DaithiDublin 10 months ago
You know when I might flag a video? Someone does a video dropping docs on a user who wants to their identity to remain private. Or MAYBE a physical threat on someone's life. Other than those and possibly some related circumstances, I can't understand flagging.
AncientAtheist 10 months ago
Well, that was meant as a response to your response.... but you get it.
AncientAtheist 10 months ago
@AncientAtheist Yup, I'm hip. I confuse easy, though, so thanks for the tip!
OgreVI 10 months ago
@AncientAtheist The one and only vid I have ever flagged was a commercial disguised as a legit opinion vid.
macnutz 10 months ago
I Must sub to the sarge.
macnutz 10 months ago
@macnutz Please do! He's done some fine work.
OgreVI 10 months ago
@OgreVI Have done now. He's got some great material, thanks for the heads up.
macnutz 10 months ago
@macnutz My pleasure, brother.
OgreVI 10 months ago
Huh, I know someone called eatmydiction1.
Aresftfun 10 months ago
@Aresftfun Perhaps they're related?
OgreVI 10 months ago
It's contrasts like this that I think put lie to, at least to some extent, the argument that the responses to things like drawings of Mohammad, or the burning of the Koran, or terrorism itself aren't religiously motivated, but are instead a reaction to western imperialist oppression.While western imperialist oppression contributes to the problem, I think it's pretty clear what actually works them into a frenzy that would motivate them into blowing themselves up to kill civilians.
TheNakedAtheist 10 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist I'm sure western imperialism has made its share of enemies, but you're right, it's silly when people pretend that religious fundamentalism has nothing to do with it. I don't understand how people can believe that.
OgreVI 10 months ago
@OgreVI
Yeah I'm not arguing we haven't contributed to the hostility, but anyone who thinks that that would be enough to motivate 17 middle class men, many of whom were college educated, to kill themselves by crashing planes into buildings without the religious belief that they were defending Islam, and would be rewarded in paradise, is kidding themself.
Oh btw your link to SgtDICTION's channel has a period at the end of it which makes the link not work.
TheNakedAtheist 10 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist Heh. Like I say, easily confused. I'll go fix it, and thanks for the heads-up.
I have this argument with my friend Mrs. D all the time. She reminds me of our peaceful mutual Muslim friends, and I say, "Religion doesn't ALWAYS cause violence, and it isn't the ONLY cause of violence. But if there was no religion, September 11 would have been just another day."
OgreVI 10 months ago
@OgreVI-She reminds me of our peaceful mutual Muslim friends
Whenever I hear that term it reminds me of an old joke my father once told me, and I think the analogy goes for any religion. The joke goes as follows: Tonto, and the Lone ranger have been chased into a box canyon by savage Indians. The Lone Ranger says to Tonto "I guess this is the end for us old friend", and Tonto replies "what do you mean us pale face". How friendly would those friends be if we woke up in a theocracy tomorrow? :p
TheNakedAtheist 10 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist Well, I'm confident that they wouldn't, you know, come kill me for being an atheist. Would they object if I was arrested or lost my job because I'm an atheist? I really believe that they would, but...hypothetical questions are difficult, you know? I trust them, but I bet a lot of people who didn't hate Jews kept quiet when the Gestapo came 'round.
That joke was one of my dad's favorites. Thanks for reminding me of it.
OgreVI 10 months ago
Fucking people are unbelievable - both the people talked about in Sarge's video, and the people who flagged his video. Yep, people are unbelievable.
AncientAtheist 10 months ago
@AncientAtheist Yeah, I don't understand the urge to flag. You don't like something, turn it off. Hit the "back" button on your browser and it disappears. Senseless.
OgreVI 10 months ago
Never flagged a video, never blocked anyone from my channel, free speech is very important to me. Apparently not to all people though.
StanMarsh1 10 months ago
@StanMarsh1 I can't say I would never block anyone, because I've only ever gotten one negative comment (and one other guy who just quoted Scripture at me, which I'm sure HE didn't mean to be negative), so I don't know how bad that gets. But it is hard to imagine me blocking anyone.
I'm sure I'll never flag anyone, though...I just don't get that at all. I don't even know why that feature exists. Very bad idea on the part of YouTube.
OgreVI 10 months ago
I'm copying this, just in case. If it goes down lemme know. ;-)
Xoroaster 10 months ago
@Xoroaster Thanks, brother, I will.
OgreVI 10 months ago
Muslims were not offended by the images of mutilated bodies because their precious koran sanctions it.
panterguy 10 months ago
@panterguy I don't think it sanctions the murder of Muslims by infidels, though.
OgreVI 10 months ago
Wow...you made my video so much better!
SgtDICTION 10 months ago
@SgtDICTION Nah. You did all the real work. I just added my two cents; you put in, like, ten bucks :)
OgreVI 10 months ago
@SgtDICTION Hey, my friend Justin (fresh home from Afghanistan) commented on the link to this video at my Facebook, and since he was really talking to you, I'm quoting it here: "Good stuff! That's why I have always questioned faith. Way too much influence placed on a book that was written thousands of years ago."
OgreVI 10 months ago
@OgreVI Glad to know there are more like minded people in the military out there. Side note: this vid has been up for a few days and has 0 dislikes!
SgtDICTION 10 months ago
@SgtDICTION Kind of amazing, isn't it?
OgreVI 10 months ago
Makes me sad that we are in a situation where it would make more sense for protests to be directed at our soldiers than at a random book burning in some random place in florida. It makes me even more sad that the protests that did occur cause a lot of deaths. Finally, I am very angry that American Soldiers did such a horrid thing. I am extremely angry that they are all in a situation where that seemed like a way to win.
Meatbag211 10 months ago
@Meatbag211 Yeah, there's plenty of ugliness to go around. I had hoped that this whole thing would finally convince people to bring the soldiers home, but I guess that isn't gonna happen.
OgreVI 10 months ago
@OgreVI It's why I voted for obama, to bring the troops home. Now I got four buddies going to afghanistan soon. I really don't know what military goals folks are trying to achieve. We sure as hell aren't winning hearts and minds.
Meatbag211 10 months ago
@Meatbag211 The "mission" in Afghanistan is notoriously murky. I have a friend who just came home, and he doesn't have any idea what he was doing there.
OgreVI 10 months ago