Why can't people see by now that all religion is symbolism for cosmic movement and events on earth but it's turned into a judgemental man with a beard who lives in the sky deciding who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. How ridiculous!! I believe there is creative force in the universe this vision of god/creator is ridiculous or should be seen for what it is!! It's like Chinese whispers and has become distorted lby man, much like most other things, it's used now to create fear and used for po
There are christians who believe that christmas has hardly anything to do and has mixed pagean beliefs into and with beliefs in the God of Abraham. There are christians who believe that christ was not born during the month of december at all but in a completely different season.
Anything in that book you know how crazy and ridiculous it sounds. It was written by man and this shit was made up by man. I was fed this bullshit since birth and I finally saw the truth an don't, can't and won't believe it anymore. If this shit hadn't been ground into your brain since birth, you know you wouldn't believe it.
@telabug09 Show me a better, more meaningful way to live my life than the life Christ invites me into. Give me more purpose more than Christ does, and maybe I will come follow you. Christ never taught 'bullshit' - what about his teaching is so irksome to you?
Reject Christ you may, but finding a more holistic, human-nourishing pattern for life is quite another conundrum. What's your solution?
@mattersmail CONT. As a former saved, baptized evangelical of a couple decades I can confirm a life based on credible evidence & facts that actually exist will always be better than one based on fraud & lies such as religion. There are real people who have actually existed who've helped the world far more than Jesus or muhammad ever could. Christianity has murdered around 250 million & Islam 270 million, half a Billion deaths - why would anyone be a devotee of such trash?
@Hercules2345 How do 'credible evidence' and 'facts' make your life more purposeful? Help me understand how life is so much better apart from Christ.
I admit that atrocities have been committed under the banner of Christianity. I do not admit, however, that these were truly representative of Christ's message. True followers of Christ, who are commanded to "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you," are not murderers.
@mattersmail How does living your life based on a fraud make your life more purposeful? There's ZERO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE for Jesus' existence let alone the rest of the claims. If there were valid evidence there'd be no "persecution." Wouldn't you AT LEAST want to make sure it's all true?
The Inquisitions & DARK AGES were EXPRESSIONS of Christianity. Where was Jesus to stop it if it was false? NOWHERE!!! Because he never existed.
@Hercules2345 Thats EASY.Everyone only cares about themselves,and their closest family.No one gives a shit about 500,000,000 others that have been slaughtered.As long as they think God is waiting on them,then thats all that matters.Humans are a MISTAKE in Evolution,and we are headed towards a dead end branch.THANK GOD!!
If any of you knew nothing about "god" or this *religion*, no one told you for your entire life and say you reach your 20's or 30's and you suddenly find this book called "the bible" in a cheap paperback book store, took it home and read it while you're on the shitter, would you look at that book and think, "Wow! Yes, this is what I've been looking for, this is the meaning of life! And now I believe!" ??? No, you fuckin wouldn't, you'd throw that shit away and think it was crazy. If you've read
Je crois bien avoir trouvé l'origine de Dieu dans l'univers (très sérieux), il y a de fortes chances que la religion émane de cette représentation de Dieu, elle est précise, hors normes et positionné là ou plusieurs écrits historiques prenne une direction... elle le représente créant le monde ou écrivant les commandements, on voie beaucoup plus que le visage et ne se compare aucunement à ce que j'ai vus sur internet.
Bref elle est à vendre... sa position... que les enchère commence.
@tnmusicman1 That would be wishful thinking on your part:
"I think it's important to realize that when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong"
- Richard Dawkins' Evolution"
The Agnostic Fallacy
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?t=376
@Hercules2345 Why would I read the sourcebook that was written by Peter Joseph? I'm sure THAT won't be biased. Yes, Mr Urbos is correct. I have read three seperate sources and all say Mithras is born from a rock. Heck,even Wikipedia has an illustration of him coming out of the rock. I am inclined to believe 3 non-biased sources over Peter Joseph.
@tnmusicman1 Nobody is even arguing that Mithras wasn't born from a rock. It's the issue of his mother's virginity and birth date. I recommended reading the Sourcebook due to the sources cited. Btw, Part 1 of the Sourcebook wasn't written by Peter Joseph, he did parts 2 & 3 though. You might read the preface before jumping to preconceived conclusions based on your own biases.
@Hercules2345 i did read page 50. I also know most of the info on mithras is questionable,at best. What i find funny is a number of atheists even claim the film is trying to discredit christianity and the actual facts are few. Its more like one little similarity blanketed with a whole lot of bull made to look like its greater than it really is.
@tnmusicman1 Actually, If you really read pg 50 & if you knew what you were talking about you'd recognize those Mithras scholars proving you wrong as highly respected Mithras experts. Your biased Christian beliefs have blinded you.
You are only here to TROLL & proselytize your religion.
@Hercules2345 oh God,the point is that all those are biased sources....ofcourse zeitgeist is going to spit on Christianity....but check real historical facts and you will find Zeitgeist to be wrong.
@MrUrosSrb Sorry but, you have no clue what you're talking about. The sources in the Sourcebook are very highly respected and very highly credentialed experts. You'd already know that if you merely read the preface, which you haven't and you won't because you're just another biased Xian bible thumping troll.
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
@Hercules2345 There is nothing in the Mithras tradition that indicates he ever even died, let alone was buried or resurrected! Now, Tertullian did write about Mithras believers re-enacting resurrection scenes, but he wrote about this occurring well after New Testament times. Christianity could NOT have borrowed from Mithras traditions, but the opposite could certainly be true.
@tnmusicman1 "The tradition ran that the 'Generative Rock,' of which a standing image was worshipped in the temples, had given birth to Mithras, on the banks of a river, under the shade of a sacred tree, and that shepherds alone, ensconced in a neighboring mountain, had witnessed the miracle of his entrance into the world. They had seen him issue forth from the rocky mass, his head adorned with a Phrygian cap
@tnmusicman1 "Sunday was kept holy in honour of Mithra, and the sixteenth of each month was sacred to him as mediator. The 25 December was observed as his birthday, the natalis invicti, the rebirth of the winter-sun, unconquered by the rigours of the season."
- Catholic Enc. Mithra
* Notice the word "REBIRTH," which means that the sun was perceived to have died & resurrected.
@tnmusicman1 "The well-known solar feast, however, of Natalis Invicti, celebrated on 25 December, has a strong claim on the responsibility for our December date. For the history of the solar cult, its position in the Roman Empire, and syncretism with Mithraism"
@TheDudeAbides1016 Actually, I did some research myself and you will find that mithirus didn't even die so resurection isn't possible. The film is just an attempt to discredit Christianity.
@Hercules2345 And yeah Mithras wasnt born of a virgin as this movie claims,he was born out of a rock,well i guess we can call rock a virgin...Zeitgeist is just stupid.
i was very interested to find something else that says all those other gods/prophets had such similar births & deaths but i can't find anything...i'm going to check the sources provided but my initial enthusiasm is quickly waning
To anyone who comes to troll on these comments and call the ppl who believe this idiots, ect. Why? Is it to make urslef feel good bc u feel ur right? is ur self esteem tht bad? If I believe Chirisanity was based of zadiac, thts my belief. Im not saying theres no God, Im not telling any1 who doesnt believe me tht they're wrong. Im simply stating my belief. Is everything out there true? no, but its up to us to use our brains and make the decision ourselves. Thats my opinion.
Moral of the story - DON'T KILL IN THE NAME OF RELIGION!!!
Religion is a creation of man and not god. Jesus did not name Christianity nor other gods for other respective religions, it was man who named then and man who created them. All the religions books talk more about how a human should behave and what is right and what is wrong to do!!!
Please do not try to fore, convert or kill in the name of religion because your defeating the sole message they are telling !!!!
What a pathetic collection of lies, half truths and logical fallacy's. Ignore the HARD evidence of the historical person of Jesus because myths use some symbolism that were the same days or events that actually happened in the life of Jesus? Wait, There is a story where Zeus ate a fish, and Jesus ate fish......so Jesus is a myth? the author of this video is a LIBTARD!
It's been proven that Jesus lived but that he was born in spring cuz that was when the Roman census took place. The Dec. 25 date was created in the early ADs by later apostles to counteract the Feast of Mithros that took place at that same time. Moses wasn't named that in the original Hebrew, it's Moshe. There were also more than 3 kings; it's estimated anywhere from 20 to 40 soothsayers came when he was two years old.
Dude, I'm a solid Christian, but all I see is in this is conspiracy theory.
Jesus is not a person,its the conviction within an individual that pull us away from this world and lead us in the right path with the creator,the messiah could B any godly person whom god anointed to lead or to rescue from the ungodly creatures..
@yak235 Citing something does not make the claims truth. The Zeitgeist religion film is nothing but a few truths mixed in with many lies, and is a deliberate spreading of misinformation. In reality, it hurts atheism more than it helps it.
I cant stand people. (usually they're super religious) who refuse to even listen to or consider this possibility. I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools from K-12, and have always had questions.. I mean the Church system is so currupt.. The world is corrupt. And in my opinion, this video was very well resarched and has an amazing point, in which in my opinion is the truth behind Christianity. Now call me dumb, thts fine. But what the world needs is ppl to think 4 themselves, Not church
@PSNBloodraid In a youtube comment u only get 500 characters,so its difficult to gt ur full thought out. what i mean is do ur own research. go on yt, listen to people who do the research and make up your own mind. not listen and believe everything the preist tells you. am i saying evrything out there on the web is true? of coursse not. I just meant ppl should be able to make up there own minds, do their own research. But it just seems to me ur a troll looking to start shit. So why am i respnding
@JayBaddAssCutler I'm a troll for pointing out that you're basically calling theists sheep for mindlessly following what the church says, while mindlessly following what this video says? If saying something you don't like is enough to define me as a troll, than sure, I'm a troll. But that doesn't change the fact that your comment was utter bullshit.
@PSNBloodraid So by saying tink for yourself and go do your ouwn research, be it researching other videos and coming to your own conclusion, or going out and sitting in the library and doing it urslef is the same as mindlessly following church? Im just not sure the whole point of coming and calling out a comment i posted a week ago. what is it to make u feel good about urself? idk. To be honest, i barely remember the comment and ur here making a big deal of it. wht i put is MY opinion, thts it
@JayBaddAssCutler You don't seem to understand... You said that the video is full of facts (which it isn't) and then basically told people who are Christian to 'think for themselves' rather than just mindlessly listen to what the church says.
What you are doing is EXACTLY the same thing, but you're substituting the church with this video.
@PSNBloodraid Please tell me when did I say FACT anywhere? are you looking at someone else? I said OPINION bud. I quote"And in my opinion, this video was very well resarched and has an amazing point, in which in my opinion is the truth behind Christianity. Now call me dumb, thts fine. But what the world needs is ppl to think 4 themselves, Not church" Did I say follow this video no, I said the point is amazing. stop being a fucking retard.
@PSNBloodraid Yeah, they just pick and choose because they have come to hate christianity for some reason. And according to most, the problems of the world would be solved if christianity was done away with. Sad... the saddest part is that this video is full of lies, and people believe it ouf of faith, and they just reaf and quote gnostic gospels as if they were from the bible... the huge historical errors in here are horrible at best.
@CrippledKnight Well, there are very good, and very valid reasons to want to abolish religion. However, the way that this video is going about doing that - by purposely spreading misinformation - is only going to strengthen the faith of the religious when they realize that the arguments that are being made are complete and utter nonsense.
@PSNBloodraid LOL, I challenge you to prove your claim that this video is "purposely spreading misinformation." If you really believe that then, simply provide your very best valid evidence for Jesus and it will all be over.
@CrippledKnight Why does everyone have to cause problems? Jesus teaches to love. and thts what ppl need to do. no matter their beliefs. the sad part is how ppl get into big dumb arguments on the internet. The whole thing is point of everyone arguments is "whos right" thts dumb. If evryone just put off good energy and love itd be fine But no, ppl gotta talk shit becuase in opinions of some this video is well researched and for others its "horrible at best" its stupid, does it effect u? not really
@JayBaddAssCutler Actually, it does affect me. I've had people personally talk to me about how christianity is false based on this crappy propaganda, that makes no sense if you study real books. They claim to know everything since they know 9/11 was a fake, as if that was such a juge discovery. It is very sad indeed, and even sadder having to sit and slowly explain why is this video info a lie, why knowing 9/11 was fake is not knowing everything and so forth. So yea, it affects me.
@CrippledKnight Comparing part 2 on 9-11 to part 1 is merely the 'guilt by association' fallacy. Ever consider that maybe it's *YOU* who doesn't know what you're talking about?
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
@CrippledKnight See those pple who force their beliefs are retarded.. It doesnt matter the source of anything. especially when other ppl dont respect other religions. U dnt nessicarily have to believe what they do, but just respect tht anyone can have their own beliefs and opinions. The people who get in big arguments defeat the point of anything. I completely believe theres a higher power, just not Chirtianities version.. Everyone shld just give off good energy and stop fighting
@CrippledKnight LOL, We don't hate Xianity we simply let the evidence that actually exists speak for itself - you might try it sometime. Speaking of problems if the world, the Abrahamic religions are part of the problem not the solution. This video helps people understand how they've been duped by religion. I challenge you to prove a "lie" in this video.
"During the later periods of Roman history SUN WORSHIP gained in importance and ultimately led to what has been called a “solar monotheism.” Nearly all the gods of the period were possessed of solar qualities, and both Christ and Mithra acquired the traits of solar deities. The feast of Sol Invictus (Unconquered SUN) on December 25 was celebrated with great joy, and eventually this date was taken over by the Christians as Christmas, the birthday of CHRIST"-Encyclopedia Britannica
I agree with you and I learned a lot but we all know that the bible was raped by Constantine in the early 300BC by combining the pagan and jew doctrines to resolve conflict on his people. If the bible have been contaminated by pagan belief we have only one book left that talk about Jesus. The Koran, and in this book the story of Jesus differs. He was not born from a virgin and he did not die and resurrect and is not a God son but a mere Prophet. I think this answers that Jesus is true.
@diler4321 Ha, ha in your dreams only is where Islam is any true religion. Islam is still stuck in the dark ages. Islam is an embarrassment to humanity.
@alex25091990 I did watch your stupid video. Anyone who has any self-respect would never claim that was valid evidence. You only further embarrass yourself and put your own foot in your mouth with every post. Feel free to make it up however you need to as you're just another Christian "Liar for the Lord." Jesus is embarrassed of you.
@Hercules2345 Anyone with a bit of brain would realize that you are just a moron rejecting such a big proof!!! Even if Jesus appear in your room right now, you would think that it's a hologram and a prank from your friends!!!
You just want to spread your fucking fake propaganda (as the zeitcrap video) or you are extremely close-minded!!!
@alex25091990 "The only definite account of his life and teachings is contained in the 4 Gospels. All other historical records of the time are silent about him. The brief mentions of Jesus in the writings of Josephus, Tacitus and Suetonius ... not genuine and as Christian interpolations; in Jewish writings there is no report about Jesus that has historical value. Some scholars have even gone so far as to hold that the entire Jesus story is a myth"
@alex25091990 Since, according to you, all we have is "fake propaganda" why don't you provide us with your very best & most credible evidence or "big proof" for Jesus? You'd be the 1st in all history to ever do so. I'm sure you'd win a prize & get on the evening news. Jesus would be thankful too for doing what Jesus, god & the early Christians couldn't.
Not specifically for Jesus, but for a superior power!
You won't see any proof in that hypnotic box, called tv!!!
The video that I provided is one!
By the way, the holy light appears only to the orthodox people.
If you think the video I gave to you is fake, then go there at Easter and see if it's fake or true!! A lot of people like you, who didn't believe it, went there and saw it with their eyes!!
@alex25091990 LOL, once again as per usual, you make a complete fool of yourself. If this "big proof" is "everywhere" as you proclaim, then, you should have no problem providing CREDIBLE evidence to back it up but, you can't. You sir, are an embarrassment to both Jesus and decent Christians.
@alex25091990 LOL, temper tantrums are for children. You're obviously pissed because you cannot provide a shred of credible evidence to back up your silly childish claims. If you could, juvenile tantrums would be totally un-necessary.
@alex25091990 and the facts in every religion were confirmed in a book. in fact everything we know about history was confirmed in books. Please keep your response clean you're my equal im not here for an argument or were and what I should do with my self okay, buddy
This is a load of crap !! Jesus is our savior ! Jesus is the way! He payed for all our sins! Jesus is Gods only son! And everyone will bow down to him when he comes back !!!!
@04cobradmurphy7 well spotted. one load of crap to debunk another load of crap. it's like saying superman is fantasy because only spiderman is a true superhero.
Can't comment on much else but Fu Xi and Tian share no significant characteristics with these other deities. Don't bother trying to find any info on it because this movie is conspiracy theory BS where they all pull their sources from the same circlejerk. So much for serious academic religious study on the internet I guess.
@mattersmail Even *IF* Tacitus was authentic he never mentioned the name "Jesus." Tacitus himself said the "Christ" thing was a "rumor," proving he didn't KNOW anything beyond hearsay. The Annals written in 115ce are too late & far too vague to be considered credible evidence as they don't confirm anything at all. These are the facts that even highly respected Xian NT scholars concede. Asking the same question repeatedly expecting a different answer won't help you.
@Hercules2345 So just to be clear, you and this video dismiss Tacitus on the grounds of using the term 'Christ' instead of Jesus. Point taken.
It follows, then, that to prove your doubts to be legit, you must establish WHO ELSE might fit Tacitus' specific description. If no one else fits it, then it is indeed a legitimate historical reference to Christ.. not as recent as you seem to need, but a credible source nonetheless.
@mattersmail Take your pick, read Justin Martyr's First Apology:
"And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you [PAGANS] believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter [ZEUS]...."
For the rest see:
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?p=20970#p20970
@Hercules2345 I was discussing Tacitus, attempting to rationally discuss why a critic would so readily discount this historian's mention of Christ. I'm simply showing that an argument dismissing Tacitus as evidence of Christ could certainly be questioned by a rational person.
The annals are rather specific about Christ and the circumstances and government surrounding his death, and about his still-active followers. Both the specifics AND the active followers represent credible evidence.
"Tacitus' Annals 15:44 does not appear in the literary record until the 14th century, while the earliest extant manuscript possessing book 15 dates only to the 11th century. Hence, the authenticity and value of the Annals remain dubious."
@Hercules2345 It's widely acknowledged (source: Oxford Dictionaries) that the Annals depict the time period of 14-68 AD; they're considered major works of Roman history. According to the Cambridge University Press, "Tacitus is universally recognised as ancient Rome's greatest writer of history." The Encyclopedia Britannica recognizes him as "probably the greatest" Roman historian.
Crap on Oxford, Cambridge, and Britannica (all credible), if you want - it's just academically irresponsible.
@mattersmail What's truly "academically irresponsible" is to omit the facts, which are that nobody ever mentioned Tacitus' Annals 15:44 claims until the 15th/16th century. Don't you think it's dishonest to leave out such significant details? I do.
Encyclopedias are general info. They don't do your research for you and much of the time they're edited by biased Christians.
@Hercules2345 It's perhaps irresponsible if you could prove that fact - but it could be true simply because people didn't question these details until that time (because a scientific mindset hadn't yet gripped the populace). The detail you provide is only significant if it is verifiable. How can it be verified?
We all rely on the biases and opinions of others in our research (look at the people you've quoted). Christians are biased. I am biased. Are you?
@mattersmail I've shared quotes for you from Jewish, Xian & Catholic scholars in admission against their own interests conceding Tacitus is not valid evidence. I'm simply sharing the counter arguments with you. You could look this up yourself instead of having me spoon-feed it to you. It's as if you've never heard these basic counter arguments before. You need to read something other than Xian propaganda & apologetics.
@Hercules2345 This simply highlights the crux of the issue: who do you WANT TO believe? You'll choose your sources, and I'll choose mine. I can be accused of reading propaganda, but so can you - it all depends on who you think represents the agenda that's most offensive to you. You've chosen Christ as offensive (which is baffling). I see those who try to discredit a pure, inherently good and inclusive message that values people as the unreasonable ones.
@mattersmail Your premise is flawed assuming Jesus is inherently good. Revelation says eventually 2/3rds the population will be killed (all non-believers of course = discrimination) in what the religious tolerance website calls: "the largest mass extermination of humans in history."
Read this from a former preacher:
Why Jesus?
ffrf. org /publications/nontracts/Why-Jesus/
How many has God killed?
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?f=5&t=2381
@mattersmail God/Jesus is the omniscient creator of the universe yet is incapable of leaving behind credible evidence of himself which would:
1. Save xians from persecution
2. Convince billions more skeptics thus saving more souls. Which is what all of this is suppose to be about, right?
So, either God/Jesus doesn't give a shit about you or he doesn't exist. All theistic arguments have failed. Religion is a human creation with an obsession of ridding the world of non-believers.
@Hercules2345 You misunderstand what it means to be a Christian. Christ claimed that those who truly followed him would be persecuted; the point of following him is not to escape suffering, but to suffer for a worthy cause.
God has given sufficient evidence for any true seeker; if you choose to ignore the fine-tuning of the universe for life, for example, or the miracles within your own body that sustain your existence every day, then you reject plausible evidence of God.
@mattersmail I'm a former saved, baptised Xian of a couple decades, remember? The "persecution" argument is so pathetic I'm surprized you'd use it. You're an intelligent person but even you can't provide a single shred of valid evidence for Jesus, God or Satan.
Your support for Xianity is no different than trying to claim "Jack & the Beanstock" is a real and historical story. After all, Geese, eggs, beans & castles exist & must be proof, therefore, it must be true according to you
@Hercules2345 The 'persecution argument' you refer to is a little baffling to me; it's not an argument. I was simply referring to John 15:18-23, where Jesus says "if they persecuted me, they will also persecute you" (v.20).
The finely tuned and highly specialized systems in your body were no accident - you are no fairy tale (frankly, the fairy tale comparisons are worn out). How do you account for the specialized, highly adaptable systems that sustain your own life?
@mattersmail Interesting how you skipped over John 15:6 since the burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus:
John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
Proving your selective perception & why belief in Jesus isn't the best we can do. In fact, it's a pretty low standard that does more harm than good. Humanity is better off w/o it.
@Hercules2345 In context, this verse is an analogy (vine & branches). The analogy extends to judgment; read it how you will.
Christ is no low standard; rather, most find following him too costly. Christianity is not so much tried and left wanting as it is untried by those who are too self-absorbed.
Show me WHO represents 'the best we can do.' If you think there's a better foundation to build a purposeful life on, I'd love to hear your answer. I have found none apart from Christ.
Look into "Jainism", if arguments to peace, morality, and proper conduct is your rationale for believing and aligning yourself with any faith. It is so peaceful and purposely non-aggressive, non-intrusive, and explicitly aimed towards good conduct that you will most likely find it almost too much to bear.
Compared to them, and other philosophies one can reach without having to threaten hellfire or argue for gods/afterlives, christianity is a low standard indeed.
@mattersmail Yes, always the parable excuse nevertheless, millions died - that was real.
Then you simply have never checked. Worshipping Jesus is just the adult version of Santa Claus. What does it say about you when you're so willing to beleive in such nonsense about a jewish guy who never existed?
Having a greater understanding of Zeitgeist part 1 is far better than Xianity for starters. People don't kill half a billion people over 'comparative mythology.'
We need not to argue or fuss over anything that was there before us, if we study the old tesament carefully we Will overstand that every man must seek the creator directly no Jesus can save our souls.
Zeitgeist fraud about Jesus and Christianity. They show unrealistic data and correlation. Anybody who is interested in the topic can Google "Jesus & Horus Parallels - A Christian Response" Here you'll find how many stupid thing do they say in the movie!!!
There is no serious correlation between Jesus and other Gods! The correlation in this movie is so trivial! We can find lots of correlations between Jesus and other people or "Gods," Obama or Dalia Lama or anybody else. It's just delirium!
The writer for Zeitgeist did make one error. There are 13 actual Zodiac signs, not 12, and it was the 13th sign, Ophinichus the Serpent Bearer (the first half of December) who betrayed the Sun. Likewise Judas, the 13th Disciple betrayed Jesus. The Sidereal Zodiac, actual Astrological positioning of the sun in the Zodiac signs, was modified into the 12 equal houses of the Tropical Zodiac we know today, eliminating the 13th sign, Ophinichus.
Isis being a virgin is, at best, a "maybe", since there is evidence on both sides. According to most scholars, Horus’ mother was not a virgin. She was married to Osiris, and there is no reason to suppose she was abstinent after marriage.
@lomidzeanarocketmail "The Pyramid Texts speak of "the great virgin" (Hwn.t wr.t) three times (682c, 728a, 2002a ..."
"In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti I, Isis herself declares: "I am the great virgin"
- Christ in Egypt, page 152
"The Egyptian goddess who was equally 'the Great Virgin' (hwnt) and 'Mother of the God' was the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor [Mary, Virgin Mother of Jesus]."
@lomidzeanarocketmail Actually, she was childless, thus virginal. The definition of virgin at that time did not necessarily mean "never had sex", only that she had never been pregnant and thus had never born children. Osirus was murdered before Isis could bear him children, thus the "miracle birth" after Osirus' death.
@Leathurkatt "The Pyramid Texts speak of "the great virgin" (Hwn.t wr.t) three times (682c, 728a, 2002a, cf. 809c)" ...
"In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti I, Isis herself declares: "I am the great virgin"
- Christ in Egypt, page 152
"The Egyptian goddess who was equally 'the Great Virgin' (hwnt) and 'Mother of the God' was the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor [Mary, Virgin Mother of Jesus]."
They other "Gods" never taught in any temple and was never baptized. Also, Jesus didn't 'disappear' in the years between His teaching in the temple and baptism. He worked humbly as a carpenter.
I just think the religious people that actually think everything in the bible happened should just give up on religion cause they don't know shit about the bible because the bible doesn't describe shit that happened historically, it describes the events of the stars, the bible is an astrotheological literary hybrid, may god have mercy on your soul for misinterpreting his book, haha get it, I'm being a jackass for spreading the truth
@mattersmail Why would anyone waste their time & LIFE believing in Jesus based on ZERO valid evidence? Having been both a saved, baptized Xian & knowing this info long before ZG1 ever came out, I find ZG1 FAR more satisfying. The info in ZG1 makes religious bigotry obsolete.
The origins of religious concepts are based in natural phenomena. Religion is used as a front for a god (selling an invisible product). Turns out there's more meaning in the sun, moon, stars etc.
@Hercules2345 I wasn't aware that I was talking to an X-Christian. That changes things. Why did you leave the faith? Purely on the basis of reason? I would honestly love to hear what makes the sun, moon, and stars so meaningful to you.
I have nothing to whine/cry about in this discussion; I simply brought one example to the table, & have attempted to have a rational debate about what makes it dismissible in your mind. Credibility is the issue here, isn't it? I sought criteria from the start.
@mattersmail Why did I leave the faith? Simple, there's no credible evidence to substantiate the claims. Theists failed miserably in their responsibility of 'burden of proof.' The bible is mythology; Jesus never existed. Watch the Mythicist Position video: watch?v=YKW9sbJ3v2w
ZG1 gives a basic explanation of how the origins of religious concepts began as mythology largely based on the sun, moon, constellations etc., have you actually watched this video & read the Sourcebook?
@Hercules2345 Yep, watched the video a couple of times, and began to read the Sourcebook. What lends credibility to what the sourcebook says in your eyes - what makes it a historically bombproof case in your opinion? It talks in fact, but most of it seems to me like biased interpretation (like all history). It simply requires a faith that I don't have to believe it all to be true.
I don't reject the whole approach; I just see it all pointing to Jesus. I see it from the opposite end.
@mattersmail LOL, of course you do; it's typical for many Xians like yourself to shore up your faith at all costs. For Xians to be honest about the fact that they have ZERO credible evidence for Jesus is simply asking too much. The thought that Jesus never existed is terrifying to them so, they'll never admit to it.
ZG1 provides an Occam's razor explanation for the origins of religious concepts that the ancients venerated. It has nothing to do with Jesus since he never existed.
We all have biases - go figure. Welcome to being human. Who is worthy of your trust? I am still waiting for someone to tell me how this Zeitgeist film adds an ounce of meaning or purpose to human existence. What does this offer to anyone for a more fulfilling life?
Truth is, people are mad at Christians, in many cases rightfully so - heck, so am I sometimes! But if your anger is what drives you to prove something wrong, you seek revenge, not truth.
@mattersmail What you've been doing is what pisses people off - dishonesty. You can't accept the fact that there exists no credible evidence for your imaginary friend, Jesus. ALL your claims have been proven false and you're dishonest about it. It's not about anger or revenge at all (another distraction fallacy). Nobody likes a sore loser who whines & cries like a child when it's explained to them why their evidence isn't really evidence after all.
For those who prefer to claim Christian revisionism, consider this too:
"Revisionism" of Tacitus' record would serve to paint Christianity as a 'deadly superstition,' and refer to the 'origin of this evil' of Christianity. These revisionists would have to be awfully clever to paint themselves in a historically evil light in order to make their records more palatable to a 21st century textual critic. You put great faith in their intellectual foresight to suggest revision.
@mattersmail Tacitus's account has Nero in Antium at the time of the fire. Tacitus also said that Nero playing his fiddle while the city burned was only rumor. According to Tacitus, upon hearing news of the fire, Nero returned to Rome to organize a relief effort, which he paid for from his own funds. After the fire, Nero opened his palaces to provide shelter for the homeless, and arranged for food supplies to be delivered in order to prevent starvation among the survivors.
@Hercules2345 As with every account of history (which I attempted to set as a foundation), we are required to trust someone's account. If you believe Tacitus was not trustworthy, give me someone who is. Give me evidence to the contrary. I see no reason for him to skew the facts, unless to make Rome look favorable. Until you give a plausible counter-argument from another comparable historian, you're just sharing your opinion.
@mattersmail "history (which I attempted to set as a foundation)"
LOL, you've already proven you have an elementary level understanding of it & are in no position to lecture anyone. It's transparent as glass you're only familiar with ONE side of these arguments.
"just sharing your opinion" - you fool, I've shared quotes from highly respected scholars - Jewish & Xian proving you wrong. You've got nothing & can't deal with it.
Religion is an Opiate for the masses,and nothing more.
MrAmericanzombie 6 hours ago
@TheNovelty8theory what makes you draw to this conclusion?
tnmusicman1 16 hours ago
Why can't people see by now that all religion is symbolism for cosmic movement and events on earth but it's turned into a judgemental man with a beard who lives in the sky deciding who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. How ridiculous!! I believe there is creative force in the universe this vision of god/creator is ridiculous or should be seen for what it is!! It's like Chinese whispers and has become distorted lby man, much like most other things, it's used now to create fear and used for po
TheNovelty8theory 17 hours ago
@telabug09 some people might.
tnmusicman1 1 day ago
and the christianity that this video speaks of is of post constantine christianity
Vinnygil 2 days ago in playlist Zeitgeist religion
There are christians who believe that christmas has hardly anything to do and has mixed pagean beliefs into and with beliefs in the God of Abraham. There are christians who believe that christ was not born during the month of december at all but in a completely different season.
Vinnygil 2 days ago in playlist Zeitgeist religion
Anything in that book you know how crazy and ridiculous it sounds. It was written by man and this shit was made up by man. I was fed this bullshit since birth and I finally saw the truth an don't, can't and won't believe it anymore. If this shit hadn't been ground into your brain since birth, you know you wouldn't believe it.
telabug09 2 days ago
@telabug09 Show me a better, more meaningful way to live my life than the life Christ invites me into. Give me more purpose more than Christ does, and maybe I will come follow you. Christ never taught 'bullshit' - what about his teaching is so irksome to you?
Reject Christ you may, but finding a more holistic, human-nourishing pattern for life is quite another conundrum. What's your solution?
mattersmail 1 day ago
@mattersmail CONT. As a former saved, baptized evangelical of a couple decades I can confirm a life based on credible evidence & facts that actually exist will always be better than one based on fraud & lies such as religion. There are real people who have actually existed who've helped the world far more than Jesus or muhammad ever could. Christianity has murdered around 250 million & Islam 270 million, half a Billion deaths - why would anyone be a devotee of such trash?
Hercules2345 1 day ago 12
@Hercules2345 How do 'credible evidence' and 'facts' make your life more purposeful? Help me understand how life is so much better apart from Christ.
I admit that atrocities have been committed under the banner of Christianity. I do not admit, however, that these were truly representative of Christ's message. True followers of Christ, who are commanded to "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you," are not murderers.
mattersmail 20 hours ago
@mattersmail How does living your life based on a fraud make your life more purposeful? There's ZERO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE for Jesus' existence let alone the rest of the claims. If there were valid evidence there'd be no "persecution." Wouldn't you AT LEAST want to make sure it's all true?
The Inquisitions & DARK AGES were EXPRESSIONS of Christianity. Where was Jesus to stop it if it was false? NOWHERE!!! Because he never existed.
Hercules2345 11 hours ago
@Hercules2345 Thats EASY.Everyone only cares about themselves,and their closest family.No one gives a shit about 500,000,000 others that have been slaughtered.As long as they think God is waiting on them,then thats all that matters.Humans are a MISTAKE in Evolution,and we are headed towards a dead end branch.THANK GOD!!
MrAmericanzombie 6 hours ago
If any of you knew nothing about "god" or this *religion*, no one told you for your entire life and say you reach your 20's or 30's and you suddenly find this book called "the bible" in a cheap paperback book store, took it home and read it while you're on the shitter, would you look at that book and think, "Wow! Yes, this is what I've been looking for, this is the meaning of life! And now I believe!" ??? No, you fuckin wouldn't, you'd throw that shit away and think it was crazy. If you've read
telabug09 2 days ago
Je crois bien avoir trouvé l'origine de Dieu dans l'univers (très sérieux), il y a de fortes chances que la religion émane de cette représentation de Dieu, elle est précise, hors normes et positionné là ou plusieurs écrits historiques prenne une direction... elle le représente créant le monde ou écrivant les commandements, on voie beaucoup plus que le visage et ne se compare aucunement à ce que j'ai vus sur internet.
Bref elle est à vendre... sa position... que les enchère commence.
mfortin1000 2 days ago
@MrUrosSrb Well said!!! The whole thing is nonsense and this is why most "smart" atheist/agnostics don't even bring up the subject.
tnmusicman1 3 days ago
@tnmusicman1 Here's a prime example of the utter ignorance of atheists who think they know everything when they absolutely do not:
Richard Dawkins on ZEITGEIST, Part 1
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?p=21425#p21425
Hercules2345 3 days ago
@Hercules2345 Dawkins supposidly went agnostic. Seems hes getting a bit smarter.
tnmusicman1 3 days ago
@tnmusicman1 That would be wishful thinking on your part:
"I think it's important to realize that when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong"
- Richard Dawkins' Evolution"
The Agnostic Fallacy
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?t=376
Hercules2345 3 days ago
@Hercules2345 Why would I read the sourcebook that was written by Peter Joseph? I'm sure THAT won't be biased. Yes, Mr Urbos is correct. I have read three seperate sources and all say Mithras is born from a rock. Heck,even Wikipedia has an illustration of him coming out of the rock. I am inclined to believe 3 non-biased sources over Peter Joseph.
tnmusicman1 3 days ago
@tnmusicman1 Nobody is even arguing that Mithras wasn't born from a rock. It's the issue of his mother's virginity and birth date. I recommended reading the Sourcebook due to the sources cited. Btw, Part 1 of the Sourcebook wasn't written by Peter Joseph, he did parts 2 & 3 though. You might read the preface before jumping to preconceived conclusions based on your own biases.
Hercules2345 3 days ago
@Hercules2345 i did read page 50. I also know most of the info on mithras is questionable,at best. What i find funny is a number of atheists even claim the film is trying to discredit christianity and the actual facts are few. Its more like one little similarity blanketed with a whole lot of bull made to look like its greater than it really is.
tnmusicman1 3 days ago
@tnmusicman1 Actually, If you really read pg 50 & if you knew what you were talking about you'd recognize those Mithras scholars proving you wrong as highly respected Mithras experts. Your biased Christian beliefs have blinded you.
You are only here to TROLL & proselytize your religion.
Hercules2345 3 days ago
@Hercules2345 oh God,the point is that all those are biased sources....ofcourse zeitgeist is going to spit on Christianity....but check real historical facts and you will find Zeitgeist to be wrong.
MrUrosSrb 2 days ago
@MrUrosSrb Sorry but, you have no clue what you're talking about. The sources in the Sourcebook are very highly respected and very highly credentialed experts. You'd already know that if you merely read the preface, which you haven't and you won't because you're just another biased Xian bible thumping troll.
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
truthbeknown. com /chrisforbeszeitgeist. html
Hercules2345 2 days ago
@Hercules2345 Greco-Roman scholar Richard Gordon advises us that there is "no death of Mithras."
tnmusicman1 3 days ago
@tnmusicman1 Read page 50 of the Sourcebook.
stellarhousepublishing. com /zeitgeistsourcebook. pdf
Hercules2345 3 days ago
@Hercules2345 There is nothing in the Mithras tradition that indicates he ever even died, let alone was buried or resurrected! Now, Tertullian did write about Mithras believers re-enacting resurrection scenes, but he wrote about this occurring well after New Testament times. Christianity could NOT have borrowed from Mithras traditions, but the opposite could certainly be true.
tnmusicman1 3 days ago
@tnmusicman1 "The tradition ran that the 'Generative Rock,' of which a standing image was worshipped in the temples, had given birth to Mithras, on the banks of a river, under the shade of a sacred tree, and that shepherds alone, ensconced in a neighboring mountain, had witnessed the miracle of his entrance into the world. They had seen him issue forth from the rocky mass, his head adorned with a Phrygian cap
tnmusicman1 3 days ago
armed with a knife, and carrying a torch that had illuminated the somber depths." - page 132 of an English translation of The Mysteries of Mithras.
tnmusicman1 3 days ago
@tnmusicman1 "Sunday was kept holy in honour of Mithra, and the sixteenth of each month was sacred to him as mediator. The 25 December was observed as his birthday, the natalis invicti, the rebirth of the winter-sun, unconquered by the rigours of the season."
- Catholic Enc. Mithra
* Notice the word "REBIRTH," which means that the sun was perceived to have died & resurrected.
Hercules2345 3 days ago
@tnmusicman1 "The well-known solar feast, however, of Natalis Invicti, celebrated on 25 December, has a strong claim on the responsibility for our December date. For the history of the solar cult, its position in the Roman Empire, and syncretism with Mithraism"
- Catholic Enc. Natalis Invicti
Hercules2345 3 days ago
@TheDudeAbides1016 Actually, I did some research myself and you will find that mithirus didn't even die so resurection isn't possible. The film is just an attempt to discredit Christianity.
tnmusicman1 4 days ago
Comment removed
Hercules2345 4 days ago
@tnmusicman1 You haven't read the Sourebook then.
The New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (2010) and Transcript
stellarhousepublishing. com? /zeitgeistsourcebook. pdf
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
truthbeknown. com /chrisforbeszeitgeist. html
Hercules2345 3 days ago
@Hercules2345 And yeah Mithras wasnt born of a virgin as this movie claims,he was born out of a rock,well i guess we can call rock a virgin...Zeitgeist is just stupid.
MrUrosSrb 3 days ago
@MrUrosSrb Last I heard rocks don't 'get it on.' Read starting on page 47 #22 onward in the Sourcebook.
stellarhousepublishing. com /zeitgeistsourcebook. pdf
Also read: truthbeknown. com /mithra. htm
Mithra: The Pagan Christ
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?f=16&t=3577
Hercules2345 3 days ago
i was very interested to find something else that says all those other gods/prophets had such similar births & deaths but i can't find anything...i'm going to check the sources provided but my initial enthusiasm is quickly waning
TheDudeAbides1016 4 days ago
Comment removed
Hercules2345 4 days ago
@TheDudeAbides1016 Have you read the links in the info box yet?
The New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (2010) and Transcript
stellarhousepublishing. com? /zeitgeistsourcebook. pdf
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
truthbeknown. com /chrisforbeszeitgeist. html
Hercules2345 3 days ago
Again Jesus is not real,the messiah for the Israelites was cyrus"and the great prince of persa Michael" was their defender in battle.
Try99me 5 days ago
oneness
Hamporkcheese 5 days ago
christians are retarded because they believe inn a talking dead guy
LAorbust92 6 days ago
To anyone who comes to troll on these comments and call the ppl who believe this idiots, ect. Why? Is it to make urslef feel good bc u feel ur right? is ur self esteem tht bad? If I believe Chirisanity was based of zadiac, thts my belief. Im not saying theres no God, Im not telling any1 who doesnt believe me tht they're wrong. Im simply stating my belief. Is everything out there true? no, but its up to us to use our brains and make the decision ourselves. Thats my opinion.
JayBaddAssCutler 6 days ago
Religion is there to be laughed at... it should even come under fiction in the dictionary
MrJamesPaylor 6 days ago
cool story bro
MrFLExin 6 days ago
Moral of the story - DON'T KILL IN THE NAME OF RELIGION!!!
Religion is a creation of man and not god. Jesus did not name Christianity nor other gods for other respective religions, it was man who named then and man who created them. All the religions books talk more about how a human should behave and what is right and what is wrong to do!!!
Please do not try to fore, convert or kill in the name of religion because your defeating the sole message they are telling !!!!
shiva0501 6 days ago
What a pathetic collection of lies, half truths and logical fallacy's. Ignore the HARD evidence of the historical person of Jesus because myths use some symbolism that were the same days or events that actually happened in the life of Jesus? Wait, There is a story where Zeus ate a fish, and Jesus ate fish......so Jesus is a myth? the author of this video is a LIBTARD!
sirjames45 6 days ago
@sirjames45 The New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (2010) and Transcript
stellarhousepublishing. com /zeitgeistsourcebook. pdf
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
truthbeknown. com /chrisforbeszeitgeist. html
Hercules2345 6 days ago
one thing....jesus wasn't born on dec 25 sooooo....what shepard keeps his sheep out in the winter. lol
lilpoosieejoto 1 week ago
It's been proven that Jesus lived but that he was born in spring cuz that was when the Roman census took place. The Dec. 25 date was created in the early ADs by later apostles to counteract the Feast of Mithros that took place at that same time. Moses wasn't named that in the original Hebrew, it's Moshe. There were also more than 3 kings; it's estimated anywhere from 20 to 40 soothsayers came when he was two years old.
Dude, I'm a solid Christian, but all I see is in this is conspiracy theory.
lilliodhe5enraptured 1 week ago
@lilliodhe5enraptured
The New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (2010) and Transcript
stellarhousepublishing. com /zeitgeistsourcebook. pdf
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
truthbeknown. com /chrisforbeszeitgeist. html
Hercules2345 6 days ago
There is no prove in the bible about Jesus, no prophets talk about him no evidence to prove.
Try99me 1 week ago
Jesus is not a person,its the conviction within an individual that pull us away from this world and lead us in the right path with the creator,the messiah could B any godly person whom god anointed to lead or to rescue from the ungodly creatures..
Try99me 1 week ago
ppl krishna was not born of virgin his mom and dad had....
rayalrr 1 week ago
@rayalrr freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?f=16&t=1597
Hercules2345 1 week ago
For the record, the statements are cited, and real. I'm sorry, religious types.
yak235 1 week ago
@yak235 Citing something does not make the claims truth. The Zeitgeist religion film is nothing but a few truths mixed in with many lies, and is a deliberate spreading of misinformation. In reality, it hurts atheism more than it helps it.
PSNBloodraid 6 days ago
@Hercules2345 LOL , thank you for that admission that you are completely idiot and you don't understand the english language. Case closed
alex25091990 1 week ago
Comment removed
alex25091990 1 week ago
This video was poorly researched. Part with religion and horus. All the facts they say are fake . The guy that made this makes it look interesting.
TheGrillMaster2000 1 week ago
@TheGrillMaster2000 Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
truthbeknown. com /chrisforbeszeitgeist. html
Hercules2345 1 week ago
I cant stand people. (usually they're super religious) who refuse to even listen to or consider this possibility. I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools from K-12, and have always had questions.. I mean the Church system is so currupt.. The world is corrupt. And in my opinion, this video was very well resarched and has an amazing point, in which in my opinion is the truth behind Christianity. Now call me dumb, thts fine. But what the world needs is ppl to think 4 themselves, Not church
JayBaddAssCutler 1 week ago
@JayBaddAssCutler So, you watch this video, claim it's well researched and then tell people to think for themselves...
How ironic you are.
PSNBloodraid 6 days ago
@PSNBloodraid In a youtube comment u only get 500 characters,so its difficult to gt ur full thought out. what i mean is do ur own research. go on yt, listen to people who do the research and make up your own mind. not listen and believe everything the preist tells you. am i saying evrything out there on the web is true? of coursse not. I just meant ppl should be able to make up there own minds, do their own research. But it just seems to me ur a troll looking to start shit. So why am i respnding
JayBaddAssCutler 6 days ago
@JayBaddAssCutler I'm a troll for pointing out that you're basically calling theists sheep for mindlessly following what the church says, while mindlessly following what this video says? If saying something you don't like is enough to define me as a troll, than sure, I'm a troll. But that doesn't change the fact that your comment was utter bullshit.
PSNBloodraid 6 days ago
@PSNBloodraid So by saying tink for yourself and go do your ouwn research, be it researching other videos and coming to your own conclusion, or going out and sitting in the library and doing it urslef is the same as mindlessly following church? Im just not sure the whole point of coming and calling out a comment i posted a week ago. what is it to make u feel good about urself? idk. To be honest, i barely remember the comment and ur here making a big deal of it. wht i put is MY opinion, thts it
JayBaddAssCutler 6 days ago
@JayBaddAssCutler You don't seem to understand... You said that the video is full of facts (which it isn't) and then basically told people who are Christian to 'think for themselves' rather than just mindlessly listen to what the church says.
What you are doing is EXACTLY the same thing, but you're substituting the church with this video.
PSNBloodraid 6 days ago
@PSNBloodraid Please tell me when did I say FACT anywhere? are you looking at someone else? I said OPINION bud. I quote"And in my opinion, this video was very well resarched and has an amazing point, in which in my opinion is the truth behind Christianity. Now call me dumb, thts fine. But what the world needs is ppl to think 4 themselves, Not church" Did I say follow this video no, I said the point is amazing. stop being a fucking retard.
JayBaddAssCutler 6 days ago
@JayBaddAssCutler my origional comment is on page 5 of the comments page, if u need to brush up on whats actually been said
JayBaddAssCutler 6 days ago
@PSNBloodraid Yeah, they just pick and choose because they have come to hate christianity for some reason. And according to most, the problems of the world would be solved if christianity was done away with. Sad... the saddest part is that this video is full of lies, and people believe it ouf of faith, and they just reaf and quote gnostic gospels as if they were from the bible... the huge historical errors in here are horrible at best.
CrippledKnight 6 days ago
@CrippledKnight Well, there are very good, and very valid reasons to want to abolish religion. However, the way that this video is going about doing that - by purposely spreading misinformation - is only going to strengthen the faith of the religious when they realize that the arguments that are being made are complete and utter nonsense.
PSNBloodraid 6 days ago
@PSNBloodraid LOL, I challenge you to prove your claim that this video is "purposely spreading misinformation." If you really believe that then, simply provide your very best valid evidence for Jesus and it will all be over.
Hercules2345 6 days ago
@Hercules2345 I'm an atheist, and apparently you're unaware of what the burden of proof is.
PSNBloodraid 6 days ago
@PSNBloodraid LOL, I know precisely what 'burden of proof' is do you? Still haven't watched that video & it's obvious.
watch?v=xHoDpQaYXw4
Hercules2345 6 days ago
@CrippledKnight Why does everyone have to cause problems? Jesus teaches to love. and thts what ppl need to do. no matter their beliefs. the sad part is how ppl get into big dumb arguments on the internet. The whole thing is point of everyone arguments is "whos right" thts dumb. If evryone just put off good energy and love itd be fine But no, ppl gotta talk shit becuase in opinions of some this video is well researched and for others its "horrible at best" its stupid, does it effect u? not really
JayBaddAssCutler 6 days ago
@JayBaddAssCutler Actually, it does affect me. I've had people personally talk to me about how christianity is false based on this crappy propaganda, that makes no sense if you study real books. They claim to know everything since they know 9/11 was a fake, as if that was such a juge discovery. It is very sad indeed, and even sadder having to sit and slowly explain why is this video info a lie, why knowing 9/11 was fake is not knowing everything and so forth. So yea, it affects me.
CrippledKnight 5 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@CrippledKnight Comparing part 2 on 9-11 to part 1 is merely the 'guilt by association' fallacy. Ever consider that maybe it's *YOU* who doesn't know what you're talking about?
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
truthbeknown. com /chrisforbeszeitgeist. html
Hercules2345 5 days ago
@CrippledKnight See those pple who force their beliefs are retarded.. It doesnt matter the source of anything. especially when other ppl dont respect other religions. U dnt nessicarily have to believe what they do, but just respect tht anyone can have their own beliefs and opinions. The people who get in big arguments defeat the point of anything. I completely believe theres a higher power, just not Chirtianities version.. Everyone shld just give off good energy and stop fighting
JayBaddAssCutler 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@CrippledKnight LOL, We don't hate Xianity we simply let the evidence that actually exists speak for itself - you might try it sometime. Speaking of problems if the world, the Abrahamic religions are part of the problem not the solution. This video helps people understand how they've been duped by religion. I challenge you to prove a "lie" in this video.
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes
truthbeknown. com /chrisforbeszeitgeist. html
Hercules2345 6 days ago
"During the later periods of Roman history SUN WORSHIP gained in importance and ultimately led to what has been called a “solar monotheism.” Nearly all the gods of the period were possessed of solar qualities, and both Christ and Mithra acquired the traits of solar deities. The feast of Sol Invictus (Unconquered SUN) on December 25 was celebrated with great joy, and eventually this date was taken over by the Christians as Christmas, the birthday of CHRIST"-Encyclopedia Britannica
Jesus=The SUN
WeBeItching 1 week ago
I agree with you and I learned a lot but we all know that the bible was raped by Constantine in the early 300BC by combining the pagan and jew doctrines to resolve conflict on his people. If the bible have been contaminated by pagan belief we have only one book left that talk about Jesus. The Koran, and in this book the story of Jesus differs. He was not born from a virgin and he did not die and resurrect and is not a God son but a mere Prophet. I think this answers that Jesus is true.
nurjah 1 week ago
This video just proves that Islam is the only true religion..:)
diler4321 1 week ago
@diler4321 Ha, ha in your dreams only is where Islam is any true religion. Islam is still stuck in the dark ages. Islam is an embarrassment to humanity.
Watch the videos on my channel
The Origins of Islam
truthbeknown. com /islam. htm
IslamMustReform 1 week ago
So, all facts in this video are confirmed from a zeitgeist book???
It's like saying: "I was kidnapped by aliens. It's confirmed in my book!!"
hahahahahahaha...
You are pathetic!!
alex25091990 1 week ago
@alex25091990 I said: "ZERO valid evidence" and it stands.
Read the preface to the Sourcebook before you make a fool out of yourself again.
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@Hercules2345 See the video before you say zero evidence again!
You fool!!
And YES, it's valid evidence!!
You just reject the truth in front of your eyes!!
alex25091990 1 week ago
@alex25091990 I did watch your stupid video. Anyone who has any self-respect would never claim that was valid evidence. You only further embarrass yourself and put your own foot in your mouth with every post. Feel free to make it up however you need to as you're just another Christian "Liar for the Lord." Jesus is embarrassed of you.
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@Hercules2345 Anyone with a bit of brain would realize that you are just a moron rejecting such a big proof!!! Even if Jesus appear in your room right now, you would think that it's a hologram and a prank from your friends!!!
You just want to spread your fucking fake propaganda (as the zeitcrap video) or you are extremely close-minded!!!
Either way you are hopeless!
May God forgive you one day...
alex25091990 1 week ago
@alex25091990 "The only definite account of his life and teachings is contained in the 4 Gospels. All other historical records of the time are silent about him. The brief mentions of Jesus in the writings of Josephus, Tacitus and Suetonius ... not genuine and as Christian interpolations; in Jewish writings there is no report about Jesus that has historical value. Some scholars have even gone so far as to hold that the entire Jesus story is a myth"
Uni Jewish Enc. (v.6,83)
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@Hercules2345 I don't care about this shit.
It was just an example, idiot.
alex25091990 1 week ago
@alex25091990 Since, according to you, all we have is "fake propaganda" why don't you provide us with your very best & most credible evidence or "big proof" for Jesus? You'd be the 1st in all history to ever do so. I'm sure you'd win a prize & get on the evening news. Jesus would be thankful too for doing what Jesus, god & the early Christians couldn't.
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@Hercules2345 Evidence is everywhere.
Not specifically for Jesus, but for a superior power!
You won't see any proof in that hypnotic box, called tv!!!
The video that I provided is one!
By the way, the holy light appears only to the orthodox people.
If you think the video I gave to you is fake, then go there at Easter and see if it's fake or true!! A lot of people like you, who didn't believe it, went there and saw it with their eyes!!
They were amazed!!!
So go there or shut the fuck up!!
alex25091990 1 week ago
@alex25091990 LOL, once again as per usual, you make a complete fool of yourself. If this "big proof" is "everywhere" as you proclaim, then, you should have no problem providing CREDIBLE evidence to back it up but, you can't. You sir, are an embarrassment to both Jesus and decent Christians.
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@Hercules2345 And you are an embarrassment for the human kind with that little brain in your head, if you have something in there.
I told you that the video I provided is evidence as other videos in youtube!!!
That's why IS EVERYWHERE!!! JUST SEARCH IDIOT!!!
Or have a trip in Jerusalem at Easter and see the proof with your own eyes!!!
But as I said, even if God appeared in front of you, you would still don't believe!!
Discussion CLOSED!! Stop spamming with stupid comments!!
MORON!!
alex25091990 1 week ago
@alex25091990 LOL, temper tantrums are for children. You're obviously pissed because you cannot provide a shred of credible evidence to back up your silly childish claims. If you could, juvenile tantrums would be totally un-necessary.
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@Hercules2345 your stupidness is really endless! LOL
alex25091990 6 days ago
@alex25091990 and the facts in every religion were confirmed in a book. in fact everything we know about history was confirmed in books. Please keep your response clean you're my equal im not here for an argument or were and what I should do with my self okay, buddy
shitonskyrim 1 week ago
This is a load of crap !! Jesus is our savior ! Jesus is the way! He payed for all our sins! Jesus is Gods only son! And everyone will bow down to him when he comes back !!!!
04cobradmurphy7 1 week ago
@04cobradmurphy7 Tell him i said "hi"
chrisbin 1 week ago
@04cobradmurphy7 well spotted. one load of crap to debunk another load of crap. it's like saying superman is fantasy because only spiderman is a true superhero.
castelgandalf 1 week ago
@castelgandalf Read the Sourcebook to learn that all the claims in Zeitgeist part 1 are backed up by highly credible scholarship:
The New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (2010) Transcript
stellarhousepublishing. com /zeitgeistsourcebook. pdf
Here's another good one:
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
truthbeknown. com /chrisforbeszeitgeist. html
Hercules2345 1 week ago
Can't comment on much else but Fu Xi and Tian share no significant characteristics with these other deities. Don't bother trying to find any info on it because this movie is conspiracy theory BS where they all pull their sources from the same circlejerk. So much for serious academic religious study on the internet I guess.
snydes54 1 week ago
@snydes54 Read the Sourcebook to learn that all the claims in Zeitgeist part 1 are backed up by highly credible scholarship:
The New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (2010) Transcript
stellarhousepublishing. com /zeitgeistsourcebook. pdf
Here's another good one:
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
truthbeknown. com /chrisforbeszeitgeist. html
Hercules2345 1 week ago
fucking replicates my exact feelings for christianity, except this has much more knowledge and tells christains to fuck off in a much nicer way
smartehh 1 week ago
@smartehh Except that it's full of bullshit lies and misinformation. Research any of this yourself and you'll feel like an idiot.
PSNBloodraid 6 days ago
Comment removed
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
I'm sorry, what exactly is it that makes Tacitus an illegitimate source?
I'm still trying to have a straight, objective discussion about this single question. I invite anyone to "shore up" your own response.
mattersmail 2 weeks ago
@mattersmail Even *IF* Tacitus was authentic he never mentioned the name "Jesus." Tacitus himself said the "Christ" thing was a "rumor," proving he didn't KNOW anything beyond hearsay. The Annals written in 115ce are too late & far too vague to be considered credible evidence as they don't confirm anything at all. These are the facts that even highly respected Xian NT scholars concede. Asking the same question repeatedly expecting a different answer won't help you.
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago 3
@Hercules2345 So just to be clear, you and this video dismiss Tacitus on the grounds of using the term 'Christ' instead of Jesus. Point taken.
It follows, then, that to prove your doubts to be legit, you must establish WHO ELSE might fit Tacitus' specific description. If no one else fits it, then it is indeed a legitimate historical reference to Christ.. not as recent as you seem to need, but a credible source nonetheless.
mattersmail 2 weeks ago
@mattersmail Take your pick, read Justin Martyr's First Apology:
"And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you [PAGANS] believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter [ZEUS]...."
For the rest see:
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?p=20970#p20970
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago 4
@Hercules2345 I was discussing Tacitus, attempting to rationally discuss why a critic would so readily discount this historian's mention of Christ. I'm simply showing that an argument dismissing Tacitus as evidence of Christ could certainly be questioned by a rational person.
The annals are rather specific about Christ and the circumstances and government surrounding his death, and about his still-active followers. Both the specifics AND the active followers represent credible evidence.
mattersmail 2 weeks ago
@mattersmail CONT
"Tacitus' Annals 15:44 does not appear in the literary record until the 14th century, while the earliest extant manuscript possessing book 15 dates only to the 11th century. Hence, the authenticity and value of the Annals remain dubious."
- Who Was Jesus? Fingerprints of The Christ, 94
Video: watch?v=J4-dnAkcR38
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 It's widely acknowledged (source: Oxford Dictionaries) that the Annals depict the time period of 14-68 AD; they're considered major works of Roman history. According to the Cambridge University Press, "Tacitus is universally recognised as ancient Rome's greatest writer of history." The Encyclopedia Britannica recognizes him as "probably the greatest" Roman historian.
Crap on Oxford, Cambridge, and Britannica (all credible), if you want - it's just academically irresponsible.
mattersmail 1 week ago
Comment removed
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@mattersmail What's truly "academically irresponsible" is to omit the facts, which are that nobody ever mentioned Tacitus' Annals 15:44 claims until the 15th/16th century. Don't you think it's dishonest to leave out such significant details? I do.
Encyclopedias are general info. They don't do your research for you and much of the time they're edited by biased Christians.
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@Hercules2345 It's perhaps irresponsible if you could prove that fact - but it could be true simply because people didn't question these details until that time (because a scientific mindset hadn't yet gripped the populace). The detail you provide is only significant if it is verifiable. How can it be verified?
We all rely on the biases and opinions of others in our research (look at the people you've quoted). Christians are biased. I am biased. Are you?
mattersmail 1 week ago
@mattersmail I've shared quotes for you from Jewish, Xian & Catholic scholars in admission against their own interests conceding Tacitus is not valid evidence. I'm simply sharing the counter arguments with you. You could look this up yourself instead of having me spoon-feed it to you. It's as if you've never heard these basic counter arguments before. You need to read something other than Xian propaganda & apologetics.
Hercules2345 1 week ago
@Hercules2345 This simply highlights the crux of the issue: who do you WANT TO believe? You'll choose your sources, and I'll choose mine. I can be accused of reading propaganda, but so can you - it all depends on who you think represents the agenda that's most offensive to you. You've chosen Christ as offensive (which is baffling). I see those who try to discredit a pure, inherently good and inclusive message that values people as the unreasonable ones.
mattersmail 5 days ago
@mattersmail Your premise is flawed assuming Jesus is inherently good. Revelation says eventually 2/3rds the population will be killed (all non-believers of course = discrimination) in what the religious tolerance website calls: "the largest mass extermination of humans in history."
Read this from a former preacher:
Why Jesus?
ffrf. org /publications/nontracts/Why-Jesus/
How many has God killed?
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?f=5&t=2381
Hercules2345 5 days ago
@mattersmail God/Jesus is the omniscient creator of the universe yet is incapable of leaving behind credible evidence of himself which would:
1. Save xians from persecution
2. Convince billions more skeptics thus saving more souls. Which is what all of this is suppose to be about, right?
So, either God/Jesus doesn't give a shit about you or he doesn't exist. All theistic arguments have failed. Religion is a human creation with an obsession of ridding the world of non-believers.
Hercules2345 5 days ago
@Hercules2345 You misunderstand what it means to be a Christian. Christ claimed that those who truly followed him would be persecuted; the point of following him is not to escape suffering, but to suffer for a worthy cause.
God has given sufficient evidence for any true seeker; if you choose to ignore the fine-tuning of the universe for life, for example, or the miracles within your own body that sustain your existence every day, then you reject plausible evidence of God.
mattersmail 2 days ago
@mattersmail I'm a former saved, baptised Xian of a couple decades, remember? The "persecution" argument is so pathetic I'm surprized you'd use it. You're an intelligent person but even you can't provide a single shred of valid evidence for Jesus, God or Satan.
Your support for Xianity is no different than trying to claim "Jack & the Beanstock" is a real and historical story. After all, Geese, eggs, beans & castles exist & must be proof, therefore, it must be true according to you
Hercules2345 2 days ago
@Hercules2345 The 'persecution argument' you refer to is a little baffling to me; it's not an argument. I was simply referring to John 15:18-23, where Jesus says "if they persecuted me, they will also persecute you" (v.20).
The finely tuned and highly specialized systems in your body were no accident - you are no fairy tale (frankly, the fairy tale comparisons are worn out). How do you account for the specialized, highly adaptable systems that sustain your own life?
mattersmail 1 day ago
@mattersmail Interesting how you skipped over John 15:6 since the burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus:
John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
Proving your selective perception & why belief in Jesus isn't the best we can do. In fact, it's a pretty low standard that does more harm than good. Humanity is better off w/o it.
Hercules2345 1 day ago 10
@Hercules2345 In context, this verse is an analogy (vine & branches). The analogy extends to judgment; read it how you will.
Christ is no low standard; rather, most find following him too costly. Christianity is not so much tried and left wanting as it is untried by those who are too self-absorbed.
Show me WHO represents 'the best we can do.' If you think there's a better foundation to build a purposeful life on, I'd love to hear your answer. I have found none apart from Christ.
mattersmail 20 hours ago
@mattersmail
Look into "Jainism", if arguments to peace, morality, and proper conduct is your rationale for believing and aligning yourself with any faith. It is so peaceful and purposely non-aggressive, non-intrusive, and explicitly aimed towards good conduct that you will most likely find it almost too much to bear.
Compared to them, and other philosophies one can reach without having to threaten hellfire or argue for gods/afterlives, christianity is a low standard indeed.
ogith 17 hours ago
@mattersmail Yes, always the parable excuse nevertheless, millions died - that was real.
Then you simply have never checked. Worshipping Jesus is just the adult version of Santa Claus. What does it say about you when you're so willing to beleive in such nonsense about a jewish guy who never existed?
Having a greater understanding of Zeitgeist part 1 is far better than Xianity for starters. People don't kill half a billion people over 'comparative mythology.'
Hercules2345 11 hours ago
PPeople study study study the bible is a code lets unlock it
Try99me 2 weeks ago
We need not to argue or fuss over anything that was there before us, if we study the old tesament carefully we Will overstand that every man must seek the creator directly no Jesus can save our souls.
Try99me 2 weeks ago
Zeitgeist fraud about Jesus and Christianity. They show unrealistic data and correlation. Anybody who is interested in the topic can Google "Jesus & Horus Parallels - A Christian Response" Here you'll find how many stupid thing do they say in the movie!!!
lomidzeanarocketmail 2 weeks ago
@lomidzeanarocketmail LOL, and here you'll see kingdavid8 & all his lies exposed:
Jesus & Horus Parallels and KingDavid8 Exposed
freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?f=19&t=3206
Here's another good one:
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
truthbeknown. com /chrisforbeszeitgeist. html
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
There is no serious correlation between Jesus and other Gods! The correlation in this movie is so trivial! We can find lots of correlations between Jesus and other people or "Gods," Obama or Dalia Lama or anybody else. It's just delirium!
lomidzeanarocketmail 2 weeks ago
Yeah all the facts are accurate, the rest is utter bullshit.
im666k 2 weeks ago
Will someone please tell me who else Tacitus might have been referring to in his Annals, Ch.44?
- Someone named 'Christ'
- executed under Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius
- whose followers were "substituted as culprits and punished in the most unusual ways" by Nero?
mattersmail 2 weeks ago
The writer for Zeitgeist did make one error. There are 13 actual Zodiac signs, not 12, and it was the 13th sign, Ophinichus the Serpent Bearer (the first half of December) who betrayed the Sun. Likewise Judas, the 13th Disciple betrayed Jesus. The Sidereal Zodiac, actual Astrological positioning of the sun in the Zodiac signs, was modified into the 12 equal houses of the Tropical Zodiac we know today, eliminating the 13th sign, Ophinichus.
Leathurkatt 2 weeks ago
@Leathurkatt there were 12 disciples including Judas, itd be 11 if you excluded him
This0neKid 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Leathurkatt It's not an error when one understands the difference between 'signs of the zodiac' & constellations.
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
Those 90 dislikes are unbelieving Christia- Sorry, Sun worshipping Pagans.
UjikoGaming 2 weeks ago
Isis being a virgin is, at best, a "maybe", since there is evidence on both sides. According to most scholars, Horus’ mother was not a virgin. She was married to Osiris, and there is no reason to suppose she was abstinent after marriage.
lomidzeanarocketmail 2 weeks ago
@lomidzeanarocketmail "The Pyramid Texts speak of "the great virgin" (Hwn.t wr.t) three times (682c, 728a, 2002a ..."
"In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti I, Isis herself declares: "I am the great virgin"
- Christ in Egypt, page 152
"The Egyptian goddess who was equally 'the Great Virgin' (hwnt) and 'Mother of the God' was the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor [Mary, Virgin Mother of Jesus]."
- Dr. Witt, an Egyptologist
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago 20
@Hercules2345 /watch?v=d-lBVLg7cqU
Say again the story about the "ZERO evidence" ...
alex25091990 1 week ago
@lomidzeanarocketmail Actually, she was childless, thus virginal. The definition of virgin at that time did not necessarily mean "never had sex", only that she had never been pregnant and thus had never born children. Osirus was murdered before Isis could bear him children, thus the "miracle birth" after Osirus' death.
Leathurkatt 2 weeks ago
@Leathurkatt "The Pyramid Texts speak of "the great virgin" (Hwn.t wr.t) three times (682c, 728a, 2002a, cf. 809c)" ...
"In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti I, Isis herself declares: "I am the great virgin"
- Christ in Egypt, page 152
"The Egyptian goddess who was equally 'the Great Virgin' (hwnt) and 'Mother of the God' was the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor [Mary, Virgin Mother of Jesus]."
- Dr. Witt, an Egyptologist
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
They other "Gods" never taught in any temple and was never baptized. Also, Jesus didn't 'disappear' in the years between His teaching in the temple and baptism. He worked humbly as a carpenter.
lomidzeanarocketmail 2 weeks ago
THE CLIP IS LIE!
lomidzeanarocketmail 2 weeks ago
@lomidzeanarocketmail winners of wars burn the losers books; but not all of them were written on paper.
TheSpecificChad 2 weeks ago
I just think the religious people that actually think everything in the bible happened should just give up on religion cause they don't know shit about the bible because the bible doesn't describe shit that happened historically, it describes the events of the stars, the bible is an astrotheological literary hybrid, may god have mercy on your soul for misinterpreting his book, haha get it, I'm being a jackass for spreading the truth
KazooOfficial 2 weeks ago
@KazooOfficial when was the last time you even read a bible?
futuremusician728 2 weeks ago
Why would anyone want to believe this video? What does it do for you? How does this enrich your life?
mattersmail 2 weeks ago
@mattersmail Why would anyone waste their time & LIFE believing in Jesus based on ZERO valid evidence? Having been both a saved, baptized Xian & knowing this info long before ZG1 ever came out, I find ZG1 FAR more satisfying. The info in ZG1 makes religious bigotry obsolete.
The origins of religious concepts are based in natural phenomena. Religion is used as a front for a god (selling an invisible product). Turns out there's more meaning in the sun, moon, stars etc.
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 I wasn't aware that I was talking to an X-Christian. That changes things. Why did you leave the faith? Purely on the basis of reason? I would honestly love to hear what makes the sun, moon, and stars so meaningful to you.
I have nothing to whine/cry about in this discussion; I simply brought one example to the table, & have attempted to have a rational debate about what makes it dismissible in your mind. Credibility is the issue here, isn't it? I sought criteria from the start.
mattersmail 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@mattersmail Why did I leave the faith? Simple, there's no credible evidence to substantiate the claims. Theists failed miserably in their responsibility of 'burden of proof.' The bible is mythology; Jesus never existed. Watch the Mythicist Position video: watch?v=YKW9sbJ3v2w
ZG1 gives a basic explanation of how the origins of religious concepts began as mythology largely based on the sun, moon, constellations etc., have you actually watched this video & read the Sourcebook?
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 Yep, watched the video a couple of times, and began to read the Sourcebook. What lends credibility to what the sourcebook says in your eyes - what makes it a historically bombproof case in your opinion? It talks in fact, but most of it seems to me like biased interpretation (like all history). It simply requires a faith that I don't have to believe it all to be true.
I don't reject the whole approach; I just see it all pointing to Jesus. I see it from the opposite end.
mattersmail 2 weeks ago
@mattersmail LOL, of course you do; it's typical for many Xians like yourself to shore up your faith at all costs. For Xians to be honest about the fact that they have ZERO credible evidence for Jesus is simply asking too much. The thought that Jesus never existed is terrifying to them so, they'll never admit to it.
ZG1 provides an Occam's razor explanation for the origins of religious concepts that the ancients venerated. It has nothing to do with Jesus since he never existed.
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago 13
We all have biases - go figure. Welcome to being human. Who is worthy of your trust? I am still waiting for someone to tell me how this Zeitgeist film adds an ounce of meaning or purpose to human existence. What does this offer to anyone for a more fulfilling life?
Truth is, people are mad at Christians, in many cases rightfully so - heck, so am I sometimes! But if your anger is what drives you to prove something wrong, you seek revenge, not truth.
mattersmail 2 weeks ago
@mattersmail What you've been doing is what pisses people off - dishonesty. You can't accept the fact that there exists no credible evidence for your imaginary friend, Jesus. ALL your claims have been proven false and you're dishonest about it. It's not about anger or revenge at all (another distraction fallacy). Nobody likes a sore loser who whines & cries like a child when it's explained to them why their evidence isn't really evidence after all.
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
For those who prefer to claim Christian revisionism, consider this too:
"Revisionism" of Tacitus' record would serve to paint Christianity as a 'deadly superstition,' and refer to the 'origin of this evil' of Christianity. These revisionists would have to be awfully clever to paint themselves in a historically evil light in order to make their records more palatable to a 21st century textual critic. You put great faith in their intellectual foresight to suggest revision.
mattersmail 2 weeks ago
@mattersmail Tacitus's account has Nero in Antium at the time of the fire. Tacitus also said that Nero playing his fiddle while the city burned was only rumor. According to Tacitus, upon hearing news of the fire, Nero returned to Rome to organize a relief effort, which he paid for from his own funds. After the fire, Nero opened his palaces to provide shelter for the homeless, and arranged for food supplies to be delivered in order to prevent starvation among the survivors.
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@Hercules2345 As with every account of history (which I attempted to set as a foundation), we are required to trust someone's account. If you believe Tacitus was not trustworthy, give me someone who is. Give me evidence to the contrary. I see no reason for him to skew the facts, unless to make Rome look favorable. Until you give a plausible counter-argument from another comparable historian, you're just sharing your opinion.
mattersmail 2 weeks ago
@mattersmail "history (which I attempted to set as a foundation)"
LOL, you've already proven you have an elementary level understanding of it & are in no position to lecture anyone. It's transparent as glass you're only familiar with ONE side of these arguments.
"just sharing your opinion" - you fool, I've shared quotes from highly respected scholars - Jewish & Xian proving you wrong. You've got nothing & can't deal with it.
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago