As much as you think your right, you couldn't be farther from the truth. As long as we're human beings - we will make mistakes, learn from them, teach others, and ask for forgivness when necessary.
That's called reality. You also don't understand my point. I never said a murderer has morals. What I said was it is possible to murder someone AND believe that murder is wrong. You can learn from past mistakes and teach others the right path.
cyndi has really let us down. straight "stars" like her who go after our community for $, but don't think it's important enough to call out Obama on his stance- he is against gay marriage but for civil unions- says everything i need to know. there is a imit to her support. sad that we are expected to support those who only tolerate us for money or votes but really don't see us as equal.
One has nothing to do with the other. Believe it or not it is possible to be against something - knowing how wrong it was, how its affected your life, etc. and still do it.
Nobody has ever said John McCain wasn't a human being. You somehow act like being for "family values" means your never allowed to make a mistake.
With all due respect the hell you can't. You can have morals, beliefs, and principles WITHOUT practicing them full time. It means your a weak person and it means your a human being, it DOES NOT mean however your morals, beliefs and principles are wrong.
I can't believe you can't make this distinction. I guess that's the difference between my mind - logical and RIGHT, and the liberal mind - fruity and illogical, emotion based.
I'm not a liberal. Also, don't name call it's childish! You shouldn't shout principals if you yourself don't practice them! That my friend is hypocrisy!
I think it's sad that America says "with liberty and justice for all" but they don't take it seriously! I also don't understand why people have a problem with gay's! If you don't agree with the idea of being gay, then don't be gay! It's really quite simple!
Exactly, and if you don't believe in marriage - being a man and a woman couple, than DON'T GET MARRIED!
Waht is so hard to understand?! A gay man can marry a woman and I, a straight man, can marry a woman. That's equal rights! We both cannot marry another man.
Its boggles my mind that a sexual deviance/ fetish, has now somehow been accepted into mainstream society.
You can do whatever acts you want, with whatever you want, but don't force those perversions on others.
Nobody is forcing anything on anyone! Gay people should be given the same rights as us straight people! This is the United States of America in the year 2008! Segregation and inequality should not have a place here!
The thing I like best about Rosie is that she has the courage of her convictions. She stands behind everything she believes. She keeps herself infomed and she does more behind the scenes charity work (and give monstrous contributions) than most any other celebrity.
Yet simply because she's a lesbian and is comfortable in her own skin people think they have a right to take pot shots at her.
I saw those meaningless comment you left on my Channel Shubael.All I have to say is that if I was not pissing off close mind P.C liberal faggots as yourself I would not be doing my job as a Conservative.Somebody has to stand up for family and American vaules.
"Somebody has to stand up for family and American vaules."
"American values"? Like killing innocent Iraqis and sending our own off to be killed for a Bush family vendetta. If those are values we're all fucked.
With the divorce rate at over 50% your 'American Family' no longer exists in your Pollyanna version of reality. Get real.
No I mean America values like standing up against tyranny and defend the human rights of the Iraqi people.I guess you were in favor of Saddam Hussein then?
As for the family well only a radical gay activist like yourself could take joy in its demise.I guess because your not normal you hate all normal and moral institutions.
No I don't want the last word, that's silly.However we are getting no where with this and its better if we don't continue.You have already brought out the worst in me and vice versa.
Oh and how are you going to call me a homophobe when you use the word nigger when you get angry at black people?Yet as usual you brown shirt liberals are blatant hypocrites.I only use the word faggot because I know it pisses you off.I hate no one.
How could I forget its o.k to for a minority to use hate speech because they are "powerless".My mistake Shubael I actually thought you were serious about your equality rhetoric.You should have said from the begining that you wanted special treatment.
"harbingers of inclusion". If you mean liberals activist who want to tell me and other non-comformist Americans how to think and act then yeah I do hate those people.This is America baby and I will say what I want and do what I want.Freedom is beautiful.
The civil "disobedience" of a group like Code Pink is far and away vastly different than (by personal example) three homophobes who lay in wait for a gay man minding his own business only to visit their hate-filled abuse to his person.
Think in proportion and with some sense of reasonable application.
Christ? I told you I was not a religious man. You are a Christophobe aren't you Shubael?Well let me tell your ignorant ass something the majority of Christians I know are stand up people.They are loving family people who look out for one another and the community.Why don't you follow some of your own advice and stop judging people.
Yeah but here's the thing I'm different than those creeps because I don't go around assaulting people you ass!Even when you tried your best to bring out the worst in me I did not show any hatred.Yeah I called you a queer but even you said it was not a big deal."Mindless sheep" sounds more like you P.C police than than we who stand for complete tolerance of all ideas.Why are you so afraid of freedom?
"Yeah but here's the thing I'm different than those creeps because I don't go around assaulting people you ass"
You're no different. You'd defend them over their actions against me and those who've suffered hate crimes as I have. You really need to ponder that before you spout the irresponsible rhetoric of some kid who's not (in truth) in favor of equal rights... Oh you talk a tarantella about the Constitution but you just want the unbridled freedom to slander like any other "good ol' boy".
I have no fear of it. I'd embrace it were it afforded me the same way it is you. But your Commander-in-Chief Einstein Bush would deny me my basic Constituional Rights.
You'll forigve me if I don't take you seriously since you think the man has a modicum of intelligence in that empty skull.
I use the phrase "you people" as short hand and not in an attempt to marginalize.Shubael you are easily offended and far too sensitive."
Is it too much to ask that you not (though I realize it's largely unconcious on your part) you to include rather than disclude entire groups of people in your verbiage Plato?
Ok seriously, why are you guys still discussing this? Let's everyone just let it go! Plato86 you have a point everyone should have the right to free speech. However, at what point should it be censored when it's ostiscizing people? Shubael1809, you have a point hate speech should not be tolorated in any instance and should stop! OK, everyone has a point, lets move on! :-)
"Shubael1809, you have a point hate speech should not be tolorated in any instance and should stop! OK, everyone has a point, lets move on! :-)"
He's twenty-two sexyfoxx86 so I suspect his brain isn't fully developed. But you'll note where he went the moment he got angry?
He went right for the "homo" and "queer" place.
Pity if the poor lad has trouble respecting the differences in others. He'll soon learn should he spout his "free speech" (as he calls it) in the wrong setting.
I totally agree! I think when a lot of people get angry they try to throw out insults to the character! I'm heterosexual and someone called me a fag-enabler! (A little too much Shirley Phelps-Roper!) Anyhow, the point is, it's not what people call you, it's what you answer to! Words have meaning when you give them meaning! Just let it roll off your back!
Rock on sister! On a serious note sexyfoxx I was gaybashed by three 20-somethings last year since they were laying in wait at a gay hangout near Boston and I happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
They yelled "hey faggot" to me ... I responded with "shut the fuck up pencil dick" and twenty seconds later I was left for dead on a beach. Three MRIs later and some residual affect I'm not too tickled with any homophobia.
I do understand. But being called faf-enabler doesn't hurt me so don't let being called a faggot hurt you! I have been called a nigger more times than I care to count. However, I never let it get me down! I went on to get an Ivy League education and start my own business! Not bad for a "nigger bitch who won't be anything"!
Congrats sexyfoxx but I cannot condone the use of the "n" word or the "f" word.
They're a disenfranized bigot's attempt to make him or herself feel less distanced from humanity. In the repetition of those words (even within our own minorities) there is a perpetuation of the self-loathing phenomenon.
Not this gay man... I'm not taking their shit any longer.
I don't condone those words at all and I don't think they should be used but when they are used lets not give them the power that the user wants from us! Revenge is best served as a cold dish!
No free speech should only be censored when it directly endangers the public, i.e screaming fire in a crowed theater.Anything else is fair game.You have a right to free speech not a right not to be offended.That is something ignorants shits like Shubael will never understand.
"No free speech should only be censored when it directly endangers the public.."
You're notion of "free speech" got me nearly killed last September. While you support the hatemonger's ability to say faggot, nigger, and kike like some wet-behind-the-ears twenty year old I'm still paying off hospital bills. Until you've lived my reality (and you can't since you're not a minority) THAT is something YOU will "never understand".
How about when people have public platforms and they spill their hate? Other people take that and run with it and that's how hte crimes start! Like Hagee sayed all homosexuals are inately immoral, since he said that, where ai live hate crimes have risen!
Yeah and where did you get your statics from? I seriously doubt a couple of speeches from a preacher could raise the level of hate crimes around the country.
That's here in Georgia. Hun, that's how hate crimes can start! One ignorant person says things and then people believe them! That's how the KKK started and that's how gay bashing started.
How about a source please so I can check it out myself.Also its not like Hagee said go out and beat up gay people.All he did was preach the Bible.The Bible says what it says whether it is P.C or not.
Hagee is not Phelps. Phelps is a true extremist and believes that every one who does not listen to him will go to hell.What did Hagee say that was so homophobic?
There is no point in beating a dead horse.I'm a free speech abosolutist and you are a man who wants server restrictions on speech.We will have to agree to disagree with on that.All I want to know is what do you really hope to achieve by banning hate speech?Do you really think you will reduce the level of hate crimes?
"I'm a free speech abosolutist and you are a man who wants server restrictions on speech"
You refuse categorically to understand that I believe in free speech. It's hate speech that cannot be tolerated and it's up to our state Supreme Courts to decide what constitutes hate speech and crimes...
Recall Plato; it wasn't but seventy years ago that Hitler rose to power with his hate rhetoric toward jews and homosexuals.. that's pretty recent in the scheme of things.
You categorically refuse to acknowledge that hate speech IS free speech.Moreover you never say why hate speech is not free speech when clearly it is.Finally it is not up individual states to determine what free speech is, that rest with the federal S.C.
Hate speech is one thing, under the constitution you can say what you want so long as it does not threaten life or peace.However action is a completely different story.One does not have a right to act on his hateful speech and harm another.Thus we have hate crimes but not laws prohibiting hate speech.Can you think of one law in America outlawing hateful speech that was upheld as Constitutional?
Oh and that comment about Hitler is nonsense.There are still fascist and neonazis in Germany today even though hate speech is out lawed.The best way to fight hate is with more speech and not less.
"Oh and that comment about Hitler is nonsense.There are still fascist and neonazis in Germany today even though hate speech is out lawed."
Again you're too young to know what you're talking about. I watch with the utmost horror how the neofascist movement in Italy grows every year. They call what they say "freedom of speech" and use the Celtic Cross instead of the swastika as their new emblem.
Yet would laws prohibiting hate speech stop this movement? No because you can not control the way people feel and think.Even if you out law hateful expression their hate will still exist.
a nation of half of its people buying his rotten mankind-hating message and the rest turning a blind eye PERPETUATED what happened.
How can you justify it?
Have you no decency or is this simply a matter of your youth. Go to Europe and see what that continent has endured during the 20th century. Then we'll chat.
Stope running and answer the blasted question. Would hate speech laws prevent Hitler from rising to power?Can you control what a man thinks or feels by controlling what he can say?
Yes. Hate laws would have kept a lid on Hitler and regulated the mass rounding up of Jews and homosexuals.
You're simply another "good ol' boy" (as you put it) who cannot stand a changing world. No matter how you slice it you cannot stand the notion of "the man" (read White Man) losing his grip on things globally...
"The man losing his grip on things globally?" WTF are you really talking about? Did I say that only straight White men should have freedom of speech?You are right I can't stand the way the world is changing for the worst.Politically correct individuals as yourself are pushing our world toward an Orwellian nightmare.
""The man losing his grip on things globally?" WTF are you really talking about? Did I say that only straight White men should have freedom of speech?You are right I can't stand the way the world is changing for the worst.Politically correct individuals as yourself are pushing our world toward an Orwellian nightmare."
Anyone who thinks we need four (God forbid eight) more years of this fascist conservative government has neither my respect nor my ear.
"Can you control what a man thinks or feels by controlling what he can say?"
We've managed to do it by DICTATE from "on high" with blacks in this country to the degree that Obama has a good chance of winning the Oval Office.. so yes. In time you can change (NOT CONTROL!) what a man thinks or feels.
Why do you try to diligently to uphold freedom and or hate speech (whatever you want to call it) yet make no effort to fight for the equal rights of your fellows (by "fellows" I mean fellow human beings)??
It occurs to me you're bogged down in semantics and that "oh I can't wait for another conservative President" comment you made are more who you really are than any of your repetitive empty rhetoric directed toward me.
Sir I am standing up for my fellows by standing up for a free and unrestricted exchange of ideas.I don't care about your politics or even if you make sense.Every individual has a god given right to speak his mind without the police arresting him or government censoring him.Really what are you afriad of, ideas? Concepts which are controversial?
"Sir I am standing up for my fellows by standing up for a free and unrestricted exchange of ideas.I don't care about your politics or even if you make sense."
"Exchange of ideas"?
the hell you are...
I'd like you to prosyletize that crap in front of those victims of Dachau and Buchenwald. You haven't a clue what hatemongering can do.
You have the audacity to suggest that using words like "kike", "hebe", "nigger", and "faggot" is legitimately freedom of speech?
Yes I do have the audacity to suggest that kike and craker are legitmate forms of speech.Who in the hell are you to tell another man that his speech is illegitimate?Who the hell is the government to tell an individual his speech is illegitimate?What if the majority of Americans say that protesting the military is hate speech?Then what?
"Who the hell is the government to tell an individual his speech is illegitimate?What if the majority of Americans say that protesting the military is hate speech?"
You can take the boy to YouTube but you cannot take the Texan out of him. What I've here-quoted is proof positive.
An utterly meaningless comment.I see you are afraid of answering those hard questioned I posed.I bet you realize that you have abosolutely no authority to tell another man what he can or can not say.Just because you find some speech offense does not make it illegitimate.
"Decidedly legitimate"? I assume you mean "decidedly illegitimate".Well if that is the case I would like to know who has decided this for the American people.If hate speech is illegal in America as you seem to believe than why are groups Neonazi groups still allowed to protest in public and publish and distribute racist material?
"If hate speech is illegal in America as you seem to believe than why are groups Neonazi groups still allowed to protest in public and publish and distribute racist material?"
Your defense of bigots is beginning to make me very angry. Walk a mile mon ami.. walk a mile.. then let's hear your tune.
The only thing I am defending you sophist is their( the racist, the homophobes etc) right to voice their opinions.You think I never been called a cracker or white boy while walking in some black neighborhoods? I have but unlike you I am not ready to tear up the Constitution because some loser hurt me.
Again you come at me with this double standard bull? Oh so words like whiteboy and crackers don't have any power because minorities say them right?Grade A bullshit if I ever heard it.You just want to excuse bigotry from minorities towards the average American.I don't think I'm bigger than anybody, I leave that to pompous pricks like yourself.
How do you know what impact they have on an individual? Are you straight and do you know what a straight person feels like when they are called a "breeder"?What about equality Shubael?I thought all hate speech was illegitimate and should be censored?Guess not you hypocrite!
"How do you know what impact they have on an individual?"
You will discover as you age and mature that people tend (rather unintelligently) to think en masse - not individually.
Such was the situation during the late 20s and 30s in Germany when the German people felt so shamed in their defeat that they were "ripe for the picking" to follow anyone who would promote Arian separatism and espouse the virtues of the Fatherland.
The notion of the "angry mob" is fueld by this very phenomenon.
In theory your protection of the individual freedom to call me a fag and you a redneck is just dandy.
In real historical application it's far less realistic. Live it. Learn it. Try your level best to rise to the occasion of being able to NOT use the afore-referenced words. It shouldn't be too much to ask that people not denegrade others for their religion, sexuality, or ethnicity.
You seem bright enough. I'm sure you're equal to it. (you just have an issue with the term "P.C.")
So now you can speak for the entire straight community even though you are gay?If it is the mob or fascism you fear you should be on my side and stand for unflitered free speech.Restriction on speech has always been the fetus of all totalitarian movements.The Nazis started with burning books and ended with burning men.Think about the next time you ask for government crack downs on speech.
Right but when you begin to place restrictions on free speech you open the door to unexcepted consequences.You may think hate speech is obvious but it still remains with the people to define it.
Hate crimes laws not Hate speech laws, you seem to willfully look over the major difference.You can say whatever you want, you can't act on your hate for obvious reasons.
So you have successfully prosecuted individuals who ONLY called you a name?I doubt it.Why don't you point to a single law in this nation that makes it illegal to call a person a "nigger" or "fag"?They don't exist because they are unconstitutional.Remember that term "unconstitutional"?
I have successfully prosecuted three twenty-somethings who beat the shit out of me for their perception of me yelling "fag" while the two-by-four hit the back of the head. I was left for dead. Twelve thousand dollars later... countless MRIs and I have a modicum of justice against your fellows speaking their "free speech" as I walked by after buying a slice of pizza at a gay resort.
For the last time hate speech (the act of calling someone a faggot) is not the same as a hate crime (the act of physcially assaulting someone because they are a ...)How dare you lump me in with that scum that attacked you.I would never attack anyone for any reason, let alone because they were a minority.Just pathetic.
"I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire.
That is my philosophy to a t. I am only defending their right to say something not attack people.Yet again in your childish way you must make everything black and white and thus demonize me.
"That is my philosophy to a t. I am only defending their right to say something not attack people"
But in defending their "right" (it isn't if it's hate speech) you promote the action. That's what your missing and what Germans missed between the two great wars.
You're the child. You're wet behind the ears and it shows. You've not experienced life as it happens only theory. You have the idealism and inexperience of youth only.
"But in defending their right you promote the action." Really so if I defend the right of Code Pink to protest the war does that necessarily mean I am promoting their politics and stance on the war?Do you see how flawed and sophomoric your logic is?
"Really so if I defend the right of Code Pink to protest the war does that necessarily mean I am promoting their politics and stance on the war?"
Of course. If you're going to defend that Constitution you appear to want to land on so frequently you must understand and support Code Pink's efforts too. They, for me, are the REAL patriots.
Recall this great nation of ours was founded in descent. Patrick Henry, Sam Adams, and Thomas Payne were traitors to the British Crown. Did you forget?
Yes but dissent does not only mean political dissent. Social and cultural dissenters like Fred Phelp or Neonazis groups have a right to voice their griefs with society too.That's what you refuse to acknowledge because you don't agree with Phelps or the Neonazis.
"Do you see how flawed and sophomoric your logic is?"
The only think 'sophomoric' here is your preposterous view of a "no restrictions" anaractic society.
I've noted (a phenomenon entirely known to me among self-proclaimed "conservatives") an utter lack of response or a kind word with regard to what I endured at the hands of your "free speech" bigots. You're not someone whose person or opinion I'd respect since a point of view is easy where showing human compassion takes energy.
Yeah it's real easy to stand up the civil liberties of racist and homophobes in a society that has become so politically correct.You can't even speak your mind without threatening your livihood.Look what happened to Mel Gibbson and Don Imus or even Bill Cosby when they refused to tow the P.C line.
And anyone who'd stand up for that neo-fascist asshole Mel Gibson (coke freak too) whose father Hutton Gibson denies the Holocaust ever occured is no one with whom I care to converse. Rot in ignorance. You've made one helluva a jump start for your tender years.
You're a waste of my good time and energy. You revel in stupidity and the status quo like most good "ol boys".
Oh go to hell Shubael I through trying to reason with a close mind FAGsist like yourself.You go revel in your perverse life.I have nothing more to say to an ignorant moral and social deviant.Good day sir.
"Oh go to hell Shubael I through trying to reason with a close mind FAGsist like yourself."
You could have saved us both a good deal of trouble by manifesting your bias initially. I knew it all the while but wanted you to trip over yourself explaining how unbiased and "American" you are.
Constitution my ass.
The Founding Fathers wouldn't recognize George Bush and DICK Cheney's version of America nor would they that preposterous state of Texas you vile piece of human waste.
"I have nothing more to say to an ignorant moral and social deviant."
There's a blessing.
The only social deviance and pervesity is the mindless war YOUR George Walker Bush got us into costing countless American lives and over fifty thousand innocent Iraqi lives.
Well YEE HAH! That oughta teach them theyah towelheads to bomb our buildings huh?
Pity YOUR Commander-in-Chief took out his aggression on the wrong fucking country. I swear there's stupidity in the water in Texas.
I'm not a religious man and you are entitled to think that it is worthless.Yet just consider that the Bible and its works have stood the test of time.There must be some truth in those principles which causes people to still uphold them.
Yet I have a very different take on it than you do. Where you think it's stood the test of time I say it has held back real human development for centuries. Bigots and zealots hide behind it (homosexuality) to justify hatred. Even the anti-abolitionists just prior to the Civl War used the Bible's condoning of slavery to strengthen their resolve that slavery was "just in the eyes of God". Anyone who needs the bible as a handbook for life isn't very evolved.
"Yeah and where did you get your statics from? I seriously doubt a couple of speeches from a preacher could raise the level of hate crimes around the country"
Fundamental Christianity is at the root of most homophobia in this land. MAKE NO MISTAKE.
"Yeah but are most homophobes fundie christians?I doubt it it seems like most gay bashers are young guys." You ask a legitimate question Plato. Many gaybashers are indeed young men (some of whom recognize their own sexual insecurities when seeing a gay man). But recall the Christian fundamentalists reinforce the notion "oh the Bible says it's wrong so it MUST be so.. (while ignoring other Biblical "abominations") So much of the blame onus is reinforced by fundies and selective Biblical rhetoric.
Walk a mile in my shoes on the night of Sept. 10, 2007 Plato and see how you feel then..
A YouTube argument is one thing. Being kicked incessantly to the head and face in an effort to disfigure my face and do me permanent brain damage is something quite different I assure you.
You cannot know my experience unless you've lived it. And you can't since you appear not to be a minority.
Nothing wrong with a little confidence.Something you people never seemed to have a problem with.I might be 22 but it is you who are the child.Grow up! There are some great people beyond the your local den of obscenity in Boston.
"Nothing wrong with a little confidence.Something you people never seemed to have a problem with.I might be 22 but it is you who are the child.Grow up! There are some great people beyond the your local den of obscenity in Boston."
Den of obscenity? You ARE from Texas!! LMAO!
Get back to me when you've grown your second nut cowboy. Doesn't some ranch owner in Crawford need a hand (job)?
Oh that's it I can't continue talking to a clown like you.What some good old boy turned you down and now you have a problem with Texans?Yeah I bet you would like to give Bush a hand job you deviant.I bet all you liberal queers dream about sleeping with Cheney and the rest of them.I can't wait until a real conservative is back in the W.H.
All you dumb hick fucks whine about "freedom of speech" so that no one will inhibit your ability to slander and call blacks "niggers", jews "kikes", Muslims "towelhead", and gay men "faggots".
Oddly I suspect you don't denegrade the two women having sex in front of you as "queer" though now do you?
Fucking straight men are idiots... generally and Bush' dick is probably the size of a needle hence his power issues. He's ALL YOURS.
I understand that a gay bully and nazi like yourself can't handle politically incorrect speech and independent thinking but too bad this is AMERICA.You may not think hate speech is free speech but what a gay radical thinks is of little consequence in America.The Constitution protects my right to call anybody anything I want, except if that would directly lead to violence.That's why Don Imus was not arrested after his radio stunt.
"What some good old boy turned you down" - Plato86
The proof's right here. When frustrated your kind always resorts to the basest place: what you call "free speech" is nothing more than an attempt to diminish.
You're not a new phenomenon it was simply essential you not think you were fooling anyone.
Free speech to you = the ability to feel superior (in your own mind only).
Attempt to diminish WTF? Who was the one who started with all the childish name calling?I have been nothing to polite with you and in return you resort to slurs.I was just giving you a taste of your own poison.
Oh you mean like calling people hicks and other crap you have been doing for the past two days?I would ask you if you knew what hypocrisy is but you are a liberal after all.
I called you a "hick" you called me a "Massachusetts liberal". Both are on an equal par.
(and you just slandered me again by calling me a "liberal" - at least in your mind you did) I am a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. However anyone who thinks we need four more years (God forbid eight) of anything akin to a Bush/Cheney presidency has a screw loose.
I didn't call anybody a faggot so your comment does not apply to me.I used the word queer and that is not a biggoted word.Gay people use that word all the time.If it is o.k for gays to use the word queer why can't straight men?
So queer is now a biggoted word huh? So shows with titles such as Queer as folk or Queer eye for the striaght guy have biggoted titles?Also if it is such a biggoted word why do gay people refer to eachother in that matter?You people can't have it both ways.
It hasn't the negative impact of "faggot" but let's face it it's not very kind. Queer implies by its very definition "different or odd" so it's (again) an attempt to marginalize.
"So queer is now a biggoted word huh? So shows with titles such as Queer as folk or Queer eye for the striaght guy have biggoted titles?"
In my opinion yes.
I don't run with the gay community per se. I march to my own drummer in all things. Let's just do our level best as human beings to respect one another.
"I understand that a gay bully and nazi like yourself can't handle politically incorrect speech and independent thinking but too bad this is AMERICA."
Since when did a lack of sensitivity to the differences in other become "unAmerican"?
Don Imus' career is in the crapper.
He paid dearly. And you mean to tell me you think what he said was legit?? You jest. Christ I swear there's an extra dose of ignorant in the water in Tex ASS.
Are you so simple that you don't understand the difference between supporting something a person says and supporting his right to say it?What Don Imus said was vile and disgusting but he still had a right to say it!Moreover the government did not arrest him or fine him so that proves hate speech = free speech.Oh and Dom Imus is coming back hater.
Look man you are the one who started with the name calling so don't you dare try and call me a homophobe.If you people can use the word queer why can't a straight man?Double standard anyone?If you don't want a word to be used by another group then don't use it yourself idiot.
hey you may be from texas so am i and guess what i hate chenney and bush and im a lesbian so why not shove your dumb narrow minded bigot head up your ass. and see how far that stick i up it.
Now if I would call you a dyke and tell you stick your head up your ass would that make me a homophobe?I did not say anything bigoted so there is no reason for you to react like that.I only called Shubael a queer because he was being a dick.So fuck off with your self righteous crap.
Why don't you just address my damn comment and stop with the nonsense.Will you finally admit that hate speech is protected by the 1st Amendment or are you going to continue to act like a queen?
The hell you're not. You fear that which you recognize in yourself and/or that which you feel threatens your idea of the "natural order of things". It's malarkey plain and simple. You seek to oppress.
You seek to opress by labeling people and placing them in simply boxes.You seem to view the world in a black and white fashion.Just because I don't praise homosexuality does not mean I'm a homophobe.You are so judgemental.
I will admit the only thing I wish to abolish is prejudice. However I'm able to do that is how I will do it. No matter what it takes.
People in general have suffered at the hands of autocrats and fascists long enough. Tellingly those two things come most frequently in the form of heterosexual men. When heterosexual men start behaving in a less neanderthal manner and step up to the plate humanity-wise I'll listen. Until then it's war.
"No matter what it takes." Ah so the fascist finally comes out the closet to speak.So you would be willing to supress free speech and unfairly label people homophobes in order to end prejudice?My friend you are part of the problem. You want to force tolerance down everyone's throat and fail to see that is itself autocratic.
"so you would be willing to supress free speech and unfairly label people homophobes in order to end prejudice"
Nothing unfair about it. You are a homophobe. And I'm all for "free speech". I just won't tolerate hate speech. There's a world of difference. Enter "Sizzla apologize" and read the homophobic commentary.
YouTube is rife with homophobia where cowards can feel confident their hate-filled words won't catch up with them.
Here's the rub, who should get to determine what is or is not hate speech? The government? The people? You may think hate speech is obviously but it all depends on your point of view.Unlike you I'm not ready to have what I can say dictated by the state or mob.
What are hate speech laws but forced tolerance? The way you are talking its like you never read the Constitution.Really the 1st amendment was designed to protect hate speech.You don't need an amendment to protect popular and polite speech because nobody would want to supress that.This is America man not North Korea.
What about free expression irks you so? Don't people have a right to think for themselves with out some P.C fascist like yourself telling them what is right and wrong?Really do you have a monopoly on truth, are you always right?If not perhasp you should allow others who you disagree with speak their minds.I can't believe I'm having this conservation with an American.
" Don't people have a right to think for themselves with out some P.C fascist like yourself telling them what is right and wrong?"
If you think my right to not be denegrading at the hands of socially undeveloped homophobes is "fascist" you'd better look up the word. There's a world of difference between hate speech and freedom of same.
Shall we all sit down and call Jews "kikes" and blacks "niggers" by your logic and expect it to be covered by your "free speech"?
As much as you think your right, you couldn't be farther from the truth. As long as we're human beings - we will make mistakes, learn from them, teach others, and ask for forgivness when necessary.
That's called reality. You also don't understand my point. I never said a murderer has morals. What I said was it is possible to murder someone AND believe that murder is wrong. You can learn from past mistakes and teach others the right path.
Again, pretty basic.
ihop23947 3 years ago
cyndi has really let us down. straight "stars" like her who go after our community for $, but don't think it's important enough to call out Obama on his stance- he is against gay marriage but for civil unions- says everything i need to know. there is a imit to her support. sad that we are expected to support those who only tolerate us for money or votes but really don't see us as equal.
13malabar 3 years ago
Great video!
CosmicAdventures 3 years ago
*** To Evangelicals who support McCain***
"But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself." Proverbs 6:32
John McCain cheated on his 1st wife
Carol Shepp McCain with Cindy McCain for over a YEAR - they "sneaked around"!
Admitted to sleeping w/Prostitutes while married!
Now, John McCain is cheating on Cindy w/ lobbyist Vicki Iseman - 20 years younger than Cindy!
"Family Values"?
Why on earth would ANY EVANGELICAL vote for this ADULTERER?!
sexyfoxx86 3 years ago 5
One has nothing to do with the other. Believe it or not it is possible to be against something - knowing how wrong it was, how its affected your life, etc. and still do it.
Nobody has ever said John McCain wasn't a human being. You somehow act like being for "family values" means your never allowed to make a mistake.
ihop23947 3 years ago
But if you have skeletons in your closet, you don't call out someone else!
sexyfoxx86 3 years ago
You can't shout "family values family values" when you yourself have broken family values. Let other people have their family values as well.
sexyfoxx86 3 years ago
With all due respect the hell you can't. You can have morals, beliefs, and principles WITHOUT practicing them full time. It means your a weak person and it means your a human being, it DOES NOT mean however your morals, beliefs and principles are wrong.
I can't believe you can't make this distinction. I guess that's the difference between my mind - logical and RIGHT, and the liberal mind - fruity and illogical, emotion based.
ihop23947 3 years ago
I'm not a liberal. Also, don't name call it's childish! You shouldn't shout principals if you yourself don't practice them! That my friend is hypocrisy!
sexyfoxx86 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sexyfoxx86 those of you without sin cast the first stone!
sammyjs1983 1 year ago
I think it's sad that America says "with liberty and justice for all" but they don't take it seriously! I also don't understand why people have a problem with gay's! If you don't agree with the idea of being gay, then don't be gay! It's really quite simple!
1DarlingNikki2008 3 years ago 6
Exactly, and if you don't believe in marriage - being a man and a woman couple, than DON'T GET MARRIED!
Waht is so hard to understand?! A gay man can marry a woman and I, a straight man, can marry a woman. That's equal rights! We both cannot marry another man.
Its boggles my mind that a sexual deviance/ fetish, has now somehow been accepted into mainstream society.
You can do whatever acts you want, with whatever you want, but don't force those perversions on others.
ihop23947 3 years ago
Nobody is forcing anything on anyone! Gay people should be given the same rights as us straight people! This is the United States of America in the year 2008! Segregation and inequality should not have a place here!
1DarlingNikki2008 3 years ago 4
The thing I like best about Rosie is that she has the courage of her convictions. She stands behind everything she believes. She keeps herself infomed and she does more behind the scenes charity work (and give monstrous contributions) than most any other celebrity.
Yet simply because she's a lesbian and is comfortable in her own skin people think they have a right to take pot shots at her.
Poor sportmanship I say. For shame.
Shubael1809 3 years ago 4
"Plato" Texan.. you ain't. ;-)
Shubael1809 3 years ago
I saw those meaningless comment you left on my Channel Shubael.All I have to say is that if I was not pissing off close mind P.C liberal faggots as yourself I would not be doing my job as a Conservative.Somebody has to stand up for family and American vaules.
Plato86 3 years ago
"that if I was not pissing off close mind P.C liberal faggots"
From a southern hick of a redneck that's high praise.
Word of advice? Quit while you have ANY credibility left.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"Somebody has to stand up for family and American vaules."
"American values"? Like killing innocent Iraqis and sending our own off to be killed for a Bush family vendetta. If those are values we're all fucked.
With the divorce rate at over 50% your 'American Family' no longer exists in your Pollyanna version of reality. Get real.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
No I mean America values like standing up against tyranny and defend the human rights of the Iraqi people.I guess you were in favor of Saddam Hussein then?
As for the family well only a radical gay activist like yourself could take joy in its demise.I guess because your not normal you hate all normal and moral institutions.
Plato86 3 years ago
Your tireless efforts at "he who posts lasts wins" are duly noted ... and honestly tiresome.
Your investment (you may want to objectively scrutinize this) in my "liberal" opinion of you is too profound to go unnoticed.
Much as you profess the credos of a Libertarian you're anything but.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Sir I ended this discussion days ago but then you had to post that crap on my channel.We are both tired so let us just end this.
Plato86 3 years ago
Then it is the last word you require? If not simply don't reply to this.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
No I don't want the last word, that's silly.However we are getting no where with this and its better if we don't continue.You have already brought out the worst in me and vice versa.
Plato86 3 years ago
knew ya couldn't do it! ;-)
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"I guess because your not normal you hate all normal and moral institutions."
As for this unworthy crack... I'll say simply this:
If you're (note spelling of 'you're') normal we're all fucked. Morality bucko is more than a set or rote rules spoonfed you by your elders.
Morality has more to do with individual accountability than it does the manner and gender of whom someone beds.
Ponder that.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Oh and how are you going to call me a homophobe when you use the word nigger when you get angry at black people?Yet as usual you brown shirt liberals are blatant hypocrites.I only use the word faggot because I know it pisses you off.I hate no one.
Plato86 3 years ago
"Oh and how are you going to call me a homophobe when you use the word nigger when you get angry at black people?
As forewarned I use it only when pressed. I despise both the "n" word as well as the "f" word. Both have equal impact.
But you're not a minority.
You're just an angry little white boy who feels his control slipping away.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
How could I forget its o.k to for a minority to use hate speech because they are "powerless".My mistake Shubael I actually thought you were serious about your equality rhetoric.You should have said from the begining that you wanted special treatment.
Plato86 3 years ago
"I hate no one."
Yeah you do.
You hate the harbingers of inclusion. It's what makes you a redneck.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"harbingers of inclusion". If you mean liberals activist who want to tell me and other non-comformist Americans how to think and act then yeah I do hate those people.This is America baby and I will say what I want and do what I want.Freedom is beautiful.
Plato86 3 years ago
"This is America baby .."
Please don't call me baby. It gives me the creeps. Thanks.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
The civil "disobedience" of a group like Code Pink is far and away vastly different than (by personal example) three homophobes who lay in wait for a gay man minding his own business only to visit their hate-filled abuse to his person.
Think in proportion and with some sense of reasonable application.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
If you truly want to know what the Christ you're talking about Plato go here:
w w w . cgn . ct . gov
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Fuck it.. just Google "Hate Crime Laws Massachusetts" and EDUCATE yourself!
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Christ? I told you I was not a religious man. You are a Christophobe aren't you Shubael?Well let me tell your ignorant ass something the majority of Christians I know are stand up people.They are loving family people who look out for one another and the community.Why don't you follow some of your own advice and stop judging people.
Plato86 3 years ago
"Christ? I told you I was not a religious man. You are a Christophobe aren't you Shubael?"
No .. I'm a moronophobe.
Well let me tell your ignorant ass something the majority of Christians I know are stand up people.
Yours is the ignorant ass jerk off since you've neither read nor taken in the severity of the prejudice that resides in this society.
You talk a pretty circle around it but you're no different than those who left my gay ass to die on that beach.
Mindless sheep..
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Yeah but here's the thing I'm different than those creeps because I don't go around assaulting people you ass!Even when you tried your best to bring out the worst in me I did not show any hatred.Yeah I called you a queer but even you said it was not a big deal."Mindless sheep" sounds more like you P.C police than than we who stand for complete tolerance of all ideas.Why are you so afraid of freedom?
Plato86 3 years ago
"Yeah but here's the thing I'm different than those creeps because I don't go around assaulting people you ass"
You're no different. You'd defend them over their actions against me and those who've suffered hate crimes as I have. You really need to ponder that before you spout the irresponsible rhetoric of some kid who's not (in truth) in favor of equal rights... Oh you talk a tarantella about the Constitution but you just want the unbridled freedom to slander like any other "good ol' boy".
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"Why are you so afraid of freedom?"
I have no fear of it. I'd embrace it were it afforded me the same way it is you. But your Commander-in-Chief Einstein Bush would deny me my basic Constituional Rights.
You'll forigve me if I don't take you seriously since you think the man has a modicum of intelligence in that empty skull.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
I use the phrase "you people" as short hand and not in an attempt to marginalize.Shubael you are easily offended and far too sensitive."
Is it too much to ask that you not (though I realize it's largely unconcious on your part) you to include rather than disclude entire groups of people in your verbiage Plato?
I guess it is.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Really it is not. I will try not to exclude enitre groups with "my veribiage".
Plato86 3 years ago
Ok seriously, why are you guys still discussing this? Let's everyone just let it go! Plato86 you have a point everyone should have the right to free speech. However, at what point should it be censored when it's ostiscizing people? Shubael1809, you have a point hate speech should not be tolorated in any instance and should stop! OK, everyone has a point, lets move on! :-)
sexyfoxx86 3 years ago
"Shubael1809, you have a point hate speech should not be tolorated in any instance and should stop! OK, everyone has a point, lets move on! :-)"
He's twenty-two sexyfoxx86 so I suspect his brain isn't fully developed. But you'll note where he went the moment he got angry?
He went right for the "homo" and "queer" place.
Pity if the poor lad has trouble respecting the differences in others. He'll soon learn should he spout his "free speech" (as he calls it) in the wrong setting.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
I totally agree! I think when a lot of people get angry they try to throw out insults to the character! I'm heterosexual and someone called me a fag-enabler! (A little too much Shirley Phelps-Roper!) Anyhow, the point is, it's not what people call you, it's what you answer to! Words have meaning when you give them meaning! Just let it roll off your back!
sexyfoxx86 3 years ago
lol@ "fag enabler"...
Rock on sister! On a serious note sexyfoxx I was gaybashed by three 20-somethings last year since they were laying in wait at a gay hangout near Boston and I happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
They yelled "hey faggot" to me ... I responded with "shut the fuck up pencil dick" and twenty seconds later I was left for dead on a beach. Three MRIs later and some residual affect I'm not too tickled with any homophobia.
I think you'll understand. :-)
Shubael1809 3 years ago
I do understand. But being called faf-enabler doesn't hurt me so don't let being called a faggot hurt you! I have been called a nigger more times than I care to count. However, I never let it get me down! I went on to get an Ivy League education and start my own business! Not bad for a "nigger bitch who won't be anything"!
sexyfoxx86 3 years ago
Congrats sexyfoxx but I cannot condone the use of the "n" word or the "f" word.
They're a disenfranized bigot's attempt to make him or herself feel less distanced from humanity. In the repetition of those words (even within our own minorities) there is a perpetuation of the self-loathing phenomenon.
Not this gay man... I'm not taking their shit any longer.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
I don't condone those words at all and I don't think they should be used but when they are used lets not give them the power that the user wants from us! Revenge is best served as a cold dish!
sexyfoxx86 3 years ago
No free speech should only be censored when it directly endangers the public, i.e screaming fire in a crowed theater.Anything else is fair game.You have a right to free speech not a right not to be offended.That is something ignorants shits like Shubael will never understand.
Plato86 3 years ago
"No free speech should only be censored when it directly endangers the public.."
You're notion of "free speech" got me nearly killed last September. While you support the hatemonger's ability to say faggot, nigger, and kike like some wet-behind-the-ears twenty year old I'm still paying off hospital bills. Until you've lived my reality (and you can't since you're not a minority) THAT is something YOU will "never understand".
Shubael1809 3 years ago
How about when people have public platforms and they spill their hate? Other people take that and run with it and that's how hte crimes start! Like Hagee sayed all homosexuals are inately immoral, since he said that, where ai live hate crimes have risen!
sexyfoxx86 3 years ago
perhaps our friend Plato here should have a good hard look at Phelp's Westboro website:
w w w . God Hates Fags . com
This is the reality Plato.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Yeah and where did you get your statics from? I seriously doubt a couple of speeches from a preacher could raise the level of hate crimes around the country.
Plato86 3 years ago
That's here in Georgia. Hun, that's how hate crimes can start! One ignorant person says things and then people believe them! That's how the KKK started and that's how gay bashing started.
sexyfoxx86 3 years ago
"That's here in Georgia. Hun, that's how hate crimes can start!"
Yes. It's precisely how I had my skull kicked in by three homophobic cowards last September. You're amazing perceptive sexyfoxx.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Why thanks luv!
sexyfoxx86 3 years ago
How about a source please so I can check it out myself.Also its not like Hagee said go out and beat up gay people.All he did was preach the Bible.The Bible says what it says whether it is P.C or not.
Plato86 3 years ago
Plato:
Please visit:
w w w . GodHatesFags . com to see how the extreme right feels. You seem bright enough to be able to understand what that site represents.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Hagee is not Phelps. Phelps is a true extremist and believes that every one who does not listen to him will go to hell.What did Hagee say that was so homophobic?
Plato86 3 years ago
I don't believe Plato I ever said Hagee was Phelps. You just need a lesson in what's out there masquerading as "free speech".
Shubael1809 3 years ago
There is no point in beating a dead horse.I'm a free speech abosolutist and you are a man who wants server restrictions on speech.We will have to agree to disagree with on that.All I want to know is what do you really hope to achieve by banning hate speech?Do you really think you will reduce the level of hate crimes?
Plato86 3 years ago
"I'm a free speech abosolutist and you are a man who wants server restrictions on speech"
You refuse categorically to understand that I believe in free speech. It's hate speech that cannot be tolerated and it's up to our state Supreme Courts to decide what constitutes hate speech and crimes...
Recall Plato; it wasn't but seventy years ago that Hitler rose to power with his hate rhetoric toward jews and homosexuals.. that's pretty recent in the scheme of things.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
You categorically refuse to acknowledge that hate speech IS free speech.Moreover you never say why hate speech is not free speech when clearly it is.Finally it is not up individual states to determine what free speech is, that rest with the federal S.C.
Plato86 3 years ago
"You categorically refuse to acknowledge that hate speech IS free speech"
If that's so then you TRULY need to tell me Plato why we have hate crime laws on the books in every state.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Hate speech is one thing, under the constitution you can say what you want so long as it does not threaten life or peace.However action is a completely different story.One does not have a right to act on his hateful speech and harm another.Thus we have hate crimes but not laws prohibiting hate speech.Can you think of one law in America outlawing hateful speech that was upheld as Constitutional?
Plato86 3 years ago
Oh and that comment about Hitler is nonsense.There are still fascist and neonazis in Germany today even though hate speech is out lawed.The best way to fight hate is with more speech and not less.
Plato86 3 years ago
"Oh and that comment about Hitler is nonsense.There are still fascist and neonazis in Germany today even though hate speech is out lawed."
Again you're too young to know what you're talking about. I watch with the utmost horror how the neofascist movement in Italy grows every year. They call what they say "freedom of speech" and use the Celtic Cross instead of the swastika as their new emblem.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Yet would laws prohibiting hate speech stop this movement? No because you can not control the way people feel and think.Even if you out law hateful expression their hate will still exist.
Plato86 3 years ago
a nation of half of its people buying his rotten mankind-hating message and the rest turning a blind eye PERPETUATED what happened.
How can you justify it?
Have you no decency or is this simply a matter of your youth. Go to Europe and see what that continent has endured during the 20th century. Then we'll chat.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Stope running and answer the blasted question. Would hate speech laws prevent Hitler from rising to power?Can you control what a man thinks or feels by controlling what he can say?
Plato86 3 years ago
Yes. Hate laws would have kept a lid on Hitler and regulated the mass rounding up of Jews and homosexuals.
You're simply another "good ol' boy" (as you put it) who cannot stand a changing world. No matter how you slice it you cannot stand the notion of "the man" (read White Man) losing his grip on things globally...
Pitiful.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"The man losing his grip on things globally?" WTF are you really talking about? Did I say that only straight White men should have freedom of speech?You are right I can't stand the way the world is changing for the worst.Politically correct individuals as yourself are pushing our world toward an Orwellian nightmare.
Plato86 3 years ago
""The man losing his grip on things globally?" WTF are you really talking about? Did I say that only straight White men should have freedom of speech?You are right I can't stand the way the world is changing for the worst.Politically correct individuals as yourself are pushing our world toward an Orwellian nightmare."
Anyone who thinks we need four (God forbid eight) more years of this fascist conservative government has neither my respect nor my ear.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"Can you control what a man thinks or feels by controlling what he can say?"
We've managed to do it by DICTATE from "on high" with blacks in this country to the degree that Obama has a good chance of winning the Oval Office.. so yes. In time you can change (NOT CONTROL!) what a man thinks or feels.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
A question occurs to me Plato:
Why do you try to diligently to uphold freedom and or hate speech (whatever you want to call it) yet make no effort to fight for the equal rights of your fellows (by "fellows" I mean fellow human beings)??
It occurs to me you're bogged down in semantics and that "oh I can't wait for another conservative President" comment you made are more who you really are than any of your repetitive empty rhetoric directed toward me.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Sir I am standing up for my fellows by standing up for a free and unrestricted exchange of ideas.I don't care about your politics or even if you make sense.Every individual has a god given right to speak his mind without the police arresting him or government censoring him.Really what are you afriad of, ideas? Concepts which are controversial?
Plato86 3 years ago
"Sir I am standing up for my fellows by standing up for a free and unrestricted exchange of ideas.I don't care about your politics or even if you make sense."
"Exchange of ideas"?
the hell you are...
I'd like you to prosyletize that crap in front of those victims of Dachau and Buchenwald. You haven't a clue what hatemongering can do.
You have the audacity to suggest that using words like "kike", "hebe", "nigger", and "faggot" is legitimately freedom of speech?
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Yes I do have the audacity to suggest that kike and craker are legitmate forms of speech.Who in the hell are you to tell another man that his speech is illegitimate?Who the hell is the government to tell an individual his speech is illegitimate?What if the majority of Americans say that protesting the military is hate speech?Then what?
Plato86 3 years ago
"Who the hell is the government to tell an individual his speech is illegitimate?What if the majority of Americans say that protesting the military is hate speech?"
You can take the boy to YouTube but you cannot take the Texan out of him. What I've here-quoted is proof positive.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
An utterly meaningless comment.I see you are afraid of answering those hard questioned I posed.I bet you realize that you have abosolutely no authority to tell another man what he can or can not say.Just because you find some speech offense does not make it illegitimate.
Plato86 3 years ago
I answered your "hard" question. You just don't like the answer because you want to be able to slander people at will.
It's the true mark of a bigot.
"Just because you find some speech offense does not make it illegitimate."
When it's directed against one's race, religion, or sexual orienation it is decidedly legitimate.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"Decidedly legitimate"? I assume you mean "decidedly illegitimate".Well if that is the case I would like to know who has decided this for the American people.If hate speech is illegal in America as you seem to believe than why are groups Neonazi groups still allowed to protest in public and publish and distribute racist material?
Plato86 3 years ago
"If hate speech is illegal in America as you seem to believe than why are groups Neonazi groups still allowed to protest in public and publish and distribute racist material?"
Your defense of bigots is beginning to make me very angry. Walk a mile mon ami.. walk a mile.. then let's hear your tune.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
The only thing I am defending you sophist is their( the racist, the homophobes etc) right to voice their opinions.You think I never been called a cracker or white boy while walking in some black neighborhoods? I have but unlike you I am not ready to tear up the Constitution because some loser hurt me.
Plato86 3 years ago
"You think I never been called a cracker or white boy"
Did you survive?? Give me a fucking break!
Those words hold nothing power-wise in comparison to "nigger" and "faggot" and "kike".
Are you angriest because you want to think you're better than others or is it that they're finally on to you bigots en masse?
I think the latter.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Again you come at me with this double standard bull? Oh so words like whiteboy and crackers don't have any power because minorities say them right?Grade A bullshit if I ever heard it.You just want to excuse bigotry from minorities towards the average American.I don't think I'm bigger than anybody, I leave that to pompous pricks like yourself.
Plato86 3 years ago
"Again you come at me with this double standard bull?"
Even as you say it you know it's "bull" as you say. Those words were invented .. like when gay ppl say "breeder" to have a comeback for slander.
But in truth none of the above have the impact of the age-old "faggot", "kike", and "nigger".
You know it. I know it.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
How do you know what impact they have on an individual? Are you straight and do you know what a straight person feels like when they are called a "breeder"?What about equality Shubael?I thought all hate speech was illegitimate and should be censored?Guess not you hypocrite!
Plato86 3 years ago
"How do you know what impact they have on an individual?"
You will discover as you age and mature that people tend (rather unintelligently) to think en masse - not individually.
Such was the situation during the late 20s and 30s in Germany when the German people felt so shamed in their defeat that they were "ripe for the picking" to follow anyone who would promote Arian separatism and espouse the virtues of the Fatherland.
The notion of the "angry mob" is fueld by this very phenomenon.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
In theory your protection of the individual freedom to call me a fag and you a redneck is just dandy.
In real historical application it's far less realistic. Live it. Learn it. Try your level best to rise to the occasion of being able to NOT use the afore-referenced words. It shouldn't be too much to ask that people not denegrade others for their religion, sexuality, or ethnicity.
You seem bright enough. I'm sure you're equal to it. (you just have an issue with the term "P.C.")
Shubael1809 3 years ago
So now you can speak for the entire straight community even though you are gay?If it is the mob or fascism you fear you should be on my side and stand for unflitered free speech.Restriction on speech has always been the fetus of all totalitarian movements.The Nazis started with burning books and ended with burning men.Think about the next time you ask for government crack downs on speech.
Plato86 3 years ago
"What if the majority of Americans say that protesting the military is hate speech?"
That would not be comparable since to disagree with this government is inherent to our Consitutional rights as Americans.
Actually it's our patriotic duty to protest Bush and Cheney's War on Iraq. It would be unAmerican not to do so.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Right but when you begin to place restrictions on free speech you open the door to unexcepted consequences.You may think hate speech is obvious but it still remains with the people to define it.
Plato86 3 years ago
"You may think hate speech is obvious but it still remains with the people to define it.
Yes I do find it 'obvious. And the people have decided.
That's why hate crimes are on the books in all fifty states.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Hate crimes laws not Hate speech laws, you seem to willfully look over the major difference.You can say whatever you want, you can't act on your hate for obvious reasons.
Plato86 3 years ago
and you willfully overlook the damage hate speech has done to humankind in the past...
I not only "can act" but have acted on hate crimes inflicted on myself.
You haven't a clue who you're talking to.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
So you have successfully prosecuted individuals who ONLY called you a name?I doubt it.Why don't you point to a single law in this nation that makes it illegal to call a person a "nigger" or "fag"?They don't exist because they are unconstitutional.Remember that term "unconstitutional"?
Plato86 3 years ago
no..
I have successfully prosecuted three twenty-somethings who beat the shit out of me for their perception of me yelling "fag" while the two-by-four hit the back of the head. I was left for dead. Twelve thousand dollars later... countless MRIs and I have a modicum of justice against your fellows speaking their "free speech" as I walked by after buying a slice of pizza at a gay resort.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
They were laying in wait Plato. My case was INDEED deemed a "hate crime" and prosecuted as such. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Hate crimes are (unfortunately) needed until your "free speakers" can learn to leave their individual biases at the doorstep.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
For the last time hate speech (the act of calling someone a faggot) is not the same as a hate crime (the act of physcially assaulting someone because they are a ...)How dare you lump me in with that scum that attacked you.I would never attack anyone for any reason, let alone because they were a minority.Just pathetic.
Plato86 3 years ago
"How dare you lump me in with that scum that attacked you."
Because you ass you've spent the better part of three days defending their right to do so.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire.
That is my philosophy to a t. I am only defending their right to say something not attack people.Yet again in your childish way you must make everything black and white and thus demonize me.
Plato86 3 years ago
"That is my philosophy to a t. I am only defending their right to say something not attack people"
But in defending their "right" (it isn't if it's hate speech) you promote the action. That's what your missing and what Germans missed between the two great wars.
You're the child. You're wet behind the ears and it shows. You've not experienced life as it happens only theory. You have the idealism and inexperience of youth only.
I don't demonize you. I just think you're naive.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"But in defending their right you promote the action." Really so if I defend the right of Code Pink to protest the war does that necessarily mean I am promoting their politics and stance on the war?Do you see how flawed and sophomoric your logic is?
Plato86 3 years ago
"Really so if I defend the right of Code Pink to protest the war does that necessarily mean I am promoting their politics and stance on the war?"
Of course. If you're going to defend that Constitution you appear to want to land on so frequently you must understand and support Code Pink's efforts too. They, for me, are the REAL patriots.
Recall this great nation of ours was founded in descent. Patrick Henry, Sam Adams, and Thomas Payne were traitors to the British Crown. Did you forget?
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Yes but dissent does not only mean political dissent. Social and cultural dissenters like Fred Phelp or Neonazis groups have a right to voice their griefs with society too.That's what you refuse to acknowledge because you don't agree with Phelps or the Neonazis.
Plato86 3 years ago
"Do you see how flawed and sophomoric your logic is?"
The only think 'sophomoric' here is your preposterous view of a "no restrictions" anaractic society.
I've noted (a phenomenon entirely known to me among self-proclaimed "conservatives") an utter lack of response or a kind word with regard to what I endured at the hands of your "free speech" bigots. You're not someone whose person or opinion I'd respect since a point of view is easy where showing human compassion takes energy.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Yeah it's real easy to stand up the civil liberties of racist and homophobes in a society that has become so politically correct.You can't even speak your mind without threatening your livihood.Look what happened to Mel Gibbson and Don Imus or even Bill Cosby when they refused to tow the P.C line.
Plato86 3 years ago
"Look what happened to Mel Gibbson ..."
It's "Gibson".. one "b".
And anyone who'd stand up for that neo-fascist asshole Mel Gibson (coke freak too) whose father Hutton Gibson denies the Holocaust ever occured is no one with whom I care to converse. Rot in ignorance. You've made one helluva a jump start for your tender years.
You're a waste of my good time and energy. You revel in stupidity and the status quo like most good "ol boys".
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Oh go to hell Shubael I through trying to reason with a close mind FAGsist like yourself.You go revel in your perverse life.I have nothing more to say to an ignorant moral and social deviant.Good day sir.
Plato86 3 years ago
"Oh go to hell Shubael I through trying to reason with a close mind FAGsist like yourself."
You could have saved us both a good deal of trouble by manifesting your bias initially. I knew it all the while but wanted you to trip over yourself explaining how unbiased and "American" you are.
Constitution my ass.
The Founding Fathers wouldn't recognize George Bush and DICK Cheney's version of America nor would they that preposterous state of Texas you vile piece of human waste.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
What's a mattah baby bowee?
Did the Massachusetts Liberal bring out the hater in you? Remember one thing if nothing else:
Had it not been for the good citizens of the colony of Massachusetts you'd still be speaking English with a Bristish accent you mindless bigot.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"I have nothing more to say to an ignorant moral and social deviant."
There's a blessing.
The only social deviance and pervesity is the mindless war YOUR George Walker Bush got us into costing countless American lives and over fifty thousand innocent Iraqi lives.
Well YEE HAH! That oughta teach them theyah towelheads to bomb our buildings huh?
Pity YOUR Commander-in-Chief took out his aggression on the wrong fucking country. I swear there's stupidity in the water in Texas.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"Oh and that comment about Hitler is nonsense."
Pity you cannot stand before six million dead Jews and two hundred thousand dead homosexuals and make that claim.
You know not of what you speak.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"The Bible says what it says whether it is P.C or not."
The Bible also supports slavery and calls eating shellfish an abomination so take that tome from there Plato .. it's worthless.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
I'm not a religious man and you are entitled to think that it is worthless.Yet just consider that the Bible and its works have stood the test of time.There must be some truth in those principles which causes people to still uphold them.
Plato86 3 years ago
I'm not religious either Plato.
Yet I have a very different take on it than you do. Where you think it's stood the test of time I say it has held back real human development for centuries. Bigots and zealots hide behind it (homosexuality) to justify hatred. Even the anti-abolitionists just prior to the Civl War used the Bible's condoning of slavery to strengthen their resolve that slavery was "just in the eyes of God". Anyone who needs the bible as a handbook for life isn't very evolved.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"Yeah and where did you get your statics from? I seriously doubt a couple of speeches from a preacher could raise the level of hate crimes around the country"
Fundamental Christianity is at the root of most homophobia in this land. MAKE NO MISTAKE.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Yeah but are most homophobes fundie christians?I doubt it it seems like most gay bashers are young guys.
Plato86 3 years ago
"Yeah but are most homophobes fundie christians?I doubt it it seems like most gay bashers are young guys." You ask a legitimate question Plato. Many gaybashers are indeed young men (some of whom recognize their own sexual insecurities when seeing a gay man). But recall the Christian fundamentalists reinforce the notion "oh the Bible says it's wrong so it MUST be so.. (while ignoring other Biblical "abominations") So much of the blame onus is reinforced by fundies and selective Biblical rhetoric.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Walk a mile in my shoes on the night of Sept. 10, 2007 Plato and see how you feel then..
A YouTube argument is one thing. Being kicked incessantly to the head and face in an effort to disfigure my face and do me permanent brain damage is something quite different I assure you.
You cannot know my experience unless you've lived it. And you can't since you appear not to be a minority.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
In other news: Obama leads McCain by a HEALTHY margin! Keep it up democrats! Fuck you republicans!
FURepublicans 3 years ago 2
WHEW!!!!!!!! YES WAS CAN!!!!!!!!!!!
FURepublicans 3 years ago
"sterEotype"... "sterEotype"... make note.
Bet you never misspell it again.
Fucking twenty-two and has the audacity to call himself Plato... fucking awe-inspiring I tell ya.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Nothing wrong with a little confidence.Something you people never seemed to have a problem with.I might be 22 but it is you who are the child.Grow up! There are some great people beyond the your local den of obscenity in Boston.
Plato86 3 years ago
"Nothing wrong with a little confidence.Something you people never seemed to have a problem with.I might be 22 but it is you who are the child.Grow up! There are some great people beyond the your local den of obscenity in Boston."
Den of obscenity? You ARE from Texas!! LMAO!
Get back to me when you've grown your second nut cowboy. Doesn't some ranch owner in Crawford need a hand (job)?
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Oh that's it I can't continue talking to a clown like you.What some good old boy turned you down and now you have a problem with Texans?Yeah I bet you would like to give Bush a hand job you deviant.I bet all you liberal queers dream about sleeping with Cheney and the rest of them.I can't wait until a real conservative is back in the W.H.
Plato86 3 years ago
"What some good old boy turned you down and now you have a problem with Texans?"
I don't recall having ever been "turned down" period. I bed men who're good-looking and cultured. End of that topic.
"I bet all you liberal queers dream about sleeping with Cheney and the rest of them.I can't wait until a real conservative is back in the W.H."
Ah there it is FINALLY!
Shubael1809 3 years ago
You've finally outed yourself. Good.
All you dumb hick fucks whine about "freedom of speech" so that no one will inhibit your ability to slander and call blacks "niggers", jews "kikes", Muslims "towelhead", and gay men "faggots".
Oddly I suspect you don't denegrade the two women having sex in front of you as "queer" though now do you?
Fucking straight men are idiots... generally and Bush' dick is probably the size of a needle hence his power issues. He's ALL YOURS.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Dude you're so owned.. LMFAO!
Shubael1809 3 years ago
I understand that a gay bully and nazi like yourself can't handle politically incorrect speech and independent thinking but too bad this is AMERICA.You may not think hate speech is free speech but what a gay radical thinks is of little consequence in America.The Constitution protects my right to call anybody anything I want, except if that would directly lead to violence.That's why Don Imus was not arrested after his radio stunt.
Plato86 3 years ago
""I bet all you liberal queers" -Plato86
"What some good old boy turned you down" - Plato86
The proof's right here. When frustrated your kind always resorts to the basest place: what you call "free speech" is nothing more than an attempt to diminish.
You're not a new phenomenon it was simply essential you not think you were fooling anyone.
Free speech to you = the ability to feel superior (in your own mind only).
You're not.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Attempt to diminish WTF? Who was the one who started with all the childish name calling?I have been nothing to polite with you and in return you resort to slurs.I was just giving you a taste of your own poison.
Plato86 3 years ago
Look twink..
Anyone who thinks we need another four years of what Bush/Cheney have put this poor country through has neither my respect or my attention.
When you mature into a THINKING human being get back to me. Until then? Mind your place.
(and don't try to back out of your homophobic rhetoric .. it's out there for all to see)
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"Attempt to diminish WTF?"
Let me tell you what the fuck.
an "attempt to diminish" is what negative slurs like faggot, queer, nigger, kike, and towelhead are all about.
There an attempt by those who need to feel less helpless to empower themselves by attempting to make others feel somehow lesser.
Dude? It's basic Psych 101.
Have you any schooling?
Shubael1809 3 years ago
**please read "they're an attempt" in my previous.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Oh you mean like calling people hicks and other crap you have been doing for the past two days?I would ask you if you knew what hypocrisy is but you are a liberal after all.
Plato86 3 years ago
Try to think in proportion Plato.
I called you a "hick" you called me a "Massachusetts liberal". Both are on an equal par.
(and you just slandered me again by calling me a "liberal" - at least in your mind you did) I am a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. However anyone who thinks we need four more years (God forbid eight) of anything akin to a Bush/Cheney presidency has a screw loose.
The other shit's verbotten.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
calling someone a hick is one thing but calling some one a faggot is another.
wah0089 3 years ago
I didn't call anybody a faggot so your comment does not apply to me.I used the word queer and that is not a biggoted word.Gay people use that word all the time.If it is o.k for gays to use the word queer why can't straight men?
Plato86 3 years ago
" didn't call anybody a faggot so your comment does not apply to me.I used the word queer and that is not a biggoted word.."
Correction Plato.. "queer" is a bigoted word.. It's perceived as such by gay men like me. Drop it from your vocabulary.
I began to call you "hick" when you initiated the categorization of me by calling me "queen" as I recall.
You see Plato? Yours is a memory of convenience.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
So queer is now a biggoted word huh? So shows with titles such as Queer as folk or Queer eye for the striaght guy have biggoted titles?Also if it is such a biggoted word why do gay people refer to eachother in that matter?You people can't have it both ways.
Plato86 3 years ago
"So queer is now a biggoted word huh?"
It hasn't the negative impact of "faggot" but let's face it it's not very kind. Queer implies by its very definition "different or odd" so it's (again) an attempt to marginalize.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"So queer is now a biggoted word huh? So shows with titles such as Queer as folk or Queer eye for the striaght guy have biggoted titles?"
In my opinion yes.
I don't run with the gay community per se. I march to my own drummer in all things. Let's just do our level best as human beings to respect one another.
That shouldn't be too tall an order eh?
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"You people can't have it both ways."
'you people'??
Last I knew I was as human as you.
Your phraseology speaks volumes Plato... and not in a good way.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
I use the phrase "you people" as short hand and not in an attempt to marginalize.Shubael you are easily offended and far too sensitive.
Plato86 3 years ago
"I understand that a gay bully and nazi like yourself can't handle politically incorrect speech and independent thinking but too bad this is AMERICA."
Since when did a lack of sensitivity to the differences in other become "unAmerican"?
Don Imus' career is in the crapper.
He paid dearly. And you mean to tell me you think what he said was legit?? You jest. Christ I swear there's an extra dose of ignorant in the water in Tex ASS.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Are you so simple that you don't understand the difference between supporting something a person says and supporting his right to say it?What Don Imus said was vile and disgusting but he still had a right to say it!Moreover the government did not arrest him or fine him so that proves hate speech = free speech.Oh and Dom Imus is coming back hater.
Plato86 3 years ago
Look man you are the one who started with the name calling so don't you dare try and call me a homophobe.If you people can use the word queer why can't a straight man?Double standard anyone?If you don't want a word to be used by another group then don't use it yourself idiot.
Plato86 3 years ago
hey you may be from texas so am i and guess what i hate chenney and bush and im a lesbian so why not shove your dumb narrow minded bigot head up your ass. and see how far that stick i up it.
wah0089 3 years ago
Now if I would call you a dyke and tell you stick your head up your ass would that make me a homophobe?I did not say anything bigoted so there is no reason for you to react like that.I only called Shubael a queer because he was being a dick.So fuck off with your self righteous crap.
Plato86 3 years ago
Rock on wah! Welcome sister!!
Shubael1809 3 years ago
you're fucking TWENTY-TWO??????????
Holy fuck Plato (not) get back to me when you stop whacking the monkey five times daily and we'll have a serious talk.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Why don't you just address my damn comment and stop with the nonsense.Will you finally admit that hate speech is protected by the 1st Amendment or are you going to continue to act like a queen?
Plato86 3 years ago
"Why don't you just address my damn comment and stop with the nonsense"
..because you're twenty-two.
signed, the Queen
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Try listening to what Cyndi Lauper has to say. It's basic common sense.
This doesn't need this kind of scrutiny.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"I'm no homophobe"
The hell you're not. You fear that which you recognize in yourself and/or that which you feel threatens your idea of the "natural order of things". It's malarkey plain and simple. You seek to oppress.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
You seek to opress by labeling people and placing them in simply boxes.You seem to view the world in a black and white fashion.Just because I don't praise homosexuality does not mean I'm a homophobe.You are so judgemental.
Plato86 3 years ago
I will admit the only thing I wish to abolish is prejudice. However I'm able to do that is how I will do it. No matter what it takes.
People in general have suffered at the hands of autocrats and fascists long enough. Tellingly those two things come most frequently in the form of heterosexual men. When heterosexual men start behaving in a less neanderthal manner and step up to the plate humanity-wise I'll listen. Until then it's war.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
No one's asked you to "praise" homosexuality. Simply leave it if you're uninterested.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"No matter what it takes." Ah so the fascist finally comes out the closet to speak.So you would be willing to supress free speech and unfairly label people homophobes in order to end prejudice?My friend you are part of the problem. You want to force tolerance down everyone's throat and fail to see that is itself autocratic.
Plato86 3 years ago
"so you would be willing to supress free speech and unfairly label people homophobes in order to end prejudice"
Nothing unfair about it. You are a homophobe. And I'm all for "free speech". I just won't tolerate hate speech. There's a world of difference. Enter "Sizzla apologize" and read the homophobic commentary.
YouTube is rife with homophobia where cowards can feel confident their hate-filled words won't catch up with them.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Here's the rub, who should get to determine what is or is not hate speech? The government? The people? You may think hate speech is obviously but it all depends on your point of view.Unlike you I'm not ready to have what I can say dictated by the state or mob.
Plato86 3 years ago
"Here's the rub, who should get to determine what is or is not hate speech?"
.. said Adolph Hitler to his adoring masses in 1933
Shubael1809 3 years ago
Project much Shubael? Your the one who wants to ban free speech and am the fascist? See the logical contradiction there?
Plato86 3 years ago
"You want to force tolerance down everyone's throat and fail to see that is itself autocratic."
No. I see it as fair. What's your investment in all this. There's more to your input than meets the eye.
"Tolerance" should NEVER have to be forced. It should be a fact of life.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
What are hate speech laws but forced tolerance? The way you are talking its like you never read the Constitution.Really the 1st amendment was designed to protect hate speech.You don't need an amendment to protect popular and polite speech because nobody would want to supress that.This is America man not North Korea.
Plato86 3 years ago
It's not an America that's recongizeable to anyone who's familiar with its original tenets.. no way, no how.
Shubael1809 3 years ago
*recognizable
Shubael1809 3 years ago
"What are hate speech laws but forced tolerance?"
What about the notion of an inclusionary America irks you so?
Shubael1809 3 years ago
What about free expression irks you so? Don't people have a right to think for themselves with out some P.C fascist like yourself telling them what is right and wrong?Really do you have a monopoly on truth, are you always right?If not perhasp you should allow others who you disagree with speak their minds.I can't believe I'm having this conservation with an American.
Plato86 3 years ago
" Don't people have a right to think for themselves with out some P.C fascist like yourself telling them what is right and wrong?"
If you think my right to not be denegrading at the hands of socially undeveloped homophobes is "fascist" you'd better look up the word. There's a world of difference between hate speech and freedom of same.
Shall we all sit down and call Jews "kikes" and blacks "niggers" by your logic and expect it to be covered by your "free speech"?
Shubael1809 3 years ago