Vivaldi's Women (Part one)

[EmilyGreene1984]

Sadly, quite often, women with low voices are, IMHO, misplaced into roles that rightly belong to countertenors (or in their day, the male castrati or male soprano roles). But for women, there are not alot of feminine low vocal parts available. Now while some women feel comfortable with performing trouser roles or being mistaken for sounding "masculine" - that doesn't speak for other women with low voices.

[EmilyGreene1984]

As a woman with a somewhat low voice, I must say that despite their natural low voices, some women are not comfortable performing too low, often because they DO have a harder time finding work and being taken seriously. In certain musical styles, like jazz or blues, a woman with a low voice can get away with singing low and still sounding (more or less) feminine - but in classical music and opera - there is simply not enough material written for lower voiced women.

[TXCrafts1]

WIN for the pigion at 5:34

[janiscortese]

I've got a good, clean c# below middle c, and I'm not even a trained singer. You'd think some supposed voice "experts" have never heard of Aretha Franklin or Steve Perry the way they act about high-voiced men and low-voiced women. Voices don't come in pink and blue. These women rock!

[LeoInterHyenaem]

Thank you for this lovely documentary! And the makers, of course.

[HerrWarja]

Did Vivaldi not write tenor and bass in his sacred choral music?

[blindhunt3r]

Nice Lute :)

[penntowers]

Saw the documnetary last week while visiting Britain from the US. Fantastic.

Is there a CD recording? (Apologies if this has already been answered.)

[pdxtran]

On the question of low female voices, listen to some of the Bulgarian women singers. Some of the second alto parts go to C below middle C.

[petrafanafinny]

And why don't you (eterter0) similarly pathologize high male voices? Have you done a systematic and scientific survey of low female voices throughout the world to come to your conclusions? No. But thanks for marginalizing me anyways.

[petrafanafinny]

I am a Basses in SPAV (although not in the BBC doc as I recently joined) and I can tell you, eterter0 , that I have never smoked, nor did I grow up in a smoggy area. As for larynxes growing in size, even if that is the case, it does not mean women cannot (and did not historically) have natural, legitimate low voices.

[eterter0]

The idea of this video and of this all-women-troop is excellent and it shows an aspect of Vivaldi's music which is mostly forgotten or discretely ignored. Yet I have some problems with this video too:

a) The investigation about these ospedali is not new and is not exclusive of this musicologist. Names like Talbot, Arnold, Geyer, Whittemore, Over, etc. come immediately to mind.

b) there are documents that contradict the supposition that the bass and tenor were sung in their original register.

[eterter0]

c) many of the low female voices of our days result from the frequent use of cigarettes and the breathing of smog + the growing of the population in the last centuries (with actual growing of the larynx). All these aspects have to be kept in mind.

d) the Pietà shown in this video was built when Vivaldi was already dead. The original Pietà where he worked doesn't exist anymore, so most of his music probably wasn't performed there.

e) women groups existed long before Vivaldi worked at the Pietà

[oxfordyouthchoirs]

d) true, but Vivaldi probably knew Giorgio Massari, the architect, and may have had an early influence on the musical layout of the cantoria of the new church. Micky White and I believe that the church of the Ospedaletto is probably closer to the original Pietà in layout (though perhaps larger).

e) true, as the work of Cappella Artemisia demonstrates.

[VivaldisWomen]

I was musical director of Schola Pietatis Antonio Vivaldi in this documentary. To reply -

a) we don't claim exclusivity. Our work is based on primary research by Micky White and our musicological adviser is Michael Talbot. Micky's new book on Vivaldi will be published in 2010.

[VivaldisWomen]

b) [on Maria Anna Ziani, from the Mendicanti, July 1687] although a woman, she is endowed naturally with a male voice, but one that is so tender and full, and of such a sweet tone, that she sings baritone with enough grace to transport and captivate the minds of her listeners.

Talbot "Venetian Music in the Age of Vivaldi" p131.

[VivaldisWomen]

b) And a diary entry of 3 September 1758, referring to the death of a woman in her eighties, also from the Mendicanti, named Anna Cremona and described as a distinguished bass singer. A known counterpart at the Pietà was Anna dal Basso (1670-1742).

See the reconstruction of "Gloria Patri" from Dixit Dominus on our VivaldisWomen YouTube channel. Our basses are real women and don't smoke!

[puterbuddy]

I have to agree; both their singing and pronunciation can be improved but I LOVE the idea of the work they're doing.  I completely understand Micky White's obsession with Vivaldi!

[lionel140285]

...I am the only one to find their pronunciation has a loud english accent !?

[lionel140285]

"of course" I am the only one....

OR

"of course" their latin is....awful...??

[lionel140285]

...well...I can't agree with you...since I am French !

^^

... singing in choir (often in latin)...and we do dwell on pronunciation..!!

of course, pronunciation differs depending on composers and periods !

[BernardProfitendieu]

why on Earth wouldn't it? they're British

stupid comment.

[lionel140285]

thanks for your politeness...!!

but I'm still not convinced that the way they sing can't be improved !!

[VivaldisWomen]

Vivaldi's Women is now on YouTube!

[GeaVox]

The fact that Vivaldi wrote many of his music for the choir of the Ospedale della Pieta' is common knowledge in Venice, but lost to the world. This wonderful documentary restores to us all the knowledge of Vivaldi's appreciation of womens' voices. It is really funny that some commentators speak of the "loveliness" of the sngers, many of whom would have been deformed and even disfigured...

[Vivaldikim]

aww... i want more

[classicalcompo]

It is so great to have a documentary on Vivaldi and his wonderful choir of singers and musicians...

[lucianacantares]

Where is the following part of this documentary?

[OriginalMoonbeam]

thanks so much!!! wonderful!!!!

[CantataRV682]

I would echo Danny's comment; any possibility of posting the rest of this wonderful film, the fist 10 minutes were superb and left me wanting to see more.

I also agree that it is a great pity that Schola Pietatis have not released a recording of the music. Andrew Parrott with the Taverner players has made a recording of the gloria RV589 and other Vivaldi sacred works with an all female choir transposing the tenor and bass parts up an octave in a beautiful recording.

[croftdreamer2]

Schola Pietatis Antonio Vivaldi ("Vivaldi's Women") have just recorded the Gloria on DVD and it will be released later this year.

[DannyDaWriter]

Currently watching the documentary now. For those who are curious what the opening music is, it's the Dixit Dominus ("di Praga") RV 595.

[DannyDaWriter]

Addendum: it's the first movement. Another movement ("Tecum Principium") is later in the documentary.

This is the crispest performance of RV 595 I have heard to date. It is a shame that there is not a recording of it!

The documentary is lovely, but I wonder where to get access. As someone living in the US, it's rather difficult for me to gain access to documentaries on BBC Four (though I have been able to get a hold of R Dawkins' documentaries). Is there any other location this doc is hosted?

[RachelPortman]

fra che bello... un bacio

[langtan87]

Thx for this!

[PeriodinstrumentfaN]

all female period-instrument ensemble... :>

[Gudrun74]

Excellent docu, great to see all these places!

Tx a lot for this.

[jovi1715]

weeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!