@TimReed22222 Further, there are plenty (a few thousand) engineers and architects that will tell you it was a controlled demolition. Couple that with NYC firefighters and first hand witnesses saying they heard multiple explosions--you can hear them during amateur videos. Accept that this was a govt carried out false flag attack. These things have been going on for years to justify going to war to make profits for the military industrial complex and further the advance for a one world government.
@TheReptilianBrain "Further, there are plenty (a few thousand) engineers and architects that will tell you it was a controlled demolition."
BULLSHIT - they said NO SUCH THING. They signed a petition calling for further investigation - PERIOD.
"NYC firefighters ... saying they heard multiple explosions"
Explosion sounds have many possible causes, but if you can find ANY FDNY who were there that day who believe they heard CD charges, please present them.
2. (I think you put the answer to #1 here, but ...) Plane crashes into tower, exploding fuel is forced down elevator shafts - hence explosions in basement. Falling elevators were also described as sounding like explosions.
2. How do you know that's steel?
3. By WHOM? What INDEPENDENT, UNBIASED thermite experts verified thermite?
4. The towers DID NOT FALL IN FREE-FALL time. You have been misled.
'Plane crashes into tower, exploding fuel is forced down elevator shafts'
lol...PROVE IT TIMMY!!!
no one else has.
"The towers DID NOT FALL IN FREE-FALL"
-[NCSTAR 1A 3.6] "This free fall drop continues for approximately 8 stories, the distance traveled between t=1.75s and t=4.0s...constant, downward acceleration during this time interval. This acceleration was 9.8m/s^2, equivalent to the acceleration of gravity."
YOU are all taking 'free-fall' too literally. Yes, less than free-fall means there was at least air resistance. But when it comes to a building collapse the resistance should be MASSIVE, so a few seconds less than free-fall speed does not equate to resistance in the system that should have been there. The symmetry shows that there was no resistance from the buildings structure, as that resistance cannot be symmetrical unless controlled.
Seems strange the fire was hot enough to melt steel yet not hot enough that a woman could stand at the impact zone and wave helplessly to helicopters. Most of the fuel was burnt off in the initial fireball. True, there was some residual, but the towers were specifically designed to withstand a plane impact (that includes fuel). Doesn't really matter about the twin towers, when you look at WTC 7, the rest of the official story collapses--pun intended.
@TheReptilianBrain NO, the fire was NOT hot enough to melt steel; there was none! ZERO EVIDENCE OF MELTED STEEL.
And in case you didn't notice, the fires were NOT burning where that poor woman was. The images you're thinking of are of the NORTH side of the building & were taken 45' after the crash; by that time the fires had moved to the SOUTH side. THINK - why would those people have moved *towards* fire? Of course, they wouldn't; they were ESCAPING the fire.
"Most of the fuel was burnt off in the initial fireball" IGNITING the tower's contents, starting the REAL fires.
"the towers were specifically designed to withstand a plane impact" TRUE. "that includes fuel" FALSE!
"Little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance. Indeed, at that time, no fireproofing systems were available to control the effects of such fires." - Leslie Robertson, Chief Structural Engineer.
Oh there is no doubt our people have the capability and are willing to kill us, realize, we aren't their family or friends, they could care less about us, presidents were meant to be friends with the people not stuck up dicks that worry about themselves and money. Their economics not ours.
and again the debunkers debunk nothing. what about building 7 as well as the molten metal? what about all the other one in a million shots that came together that day. what about norman minetta's testimony putting cheney at the bunker hours before he claimed to be there, ect, ect, ect. I've studied 911 nonstop for 6 years now, and all you debunkers are just like I was, afraid to beleive our people could have done this. guys,,,,,beleive it.
The red stuff was molten steel and this fuckwad thinks the steel wasn't melted, and also no matter what your stupid trying to disprove this, a controlled demolition wouldn't make steel melt so why the hell do you bring it up? Here's what would happen *BOOM* some random people in New York then get hit with steel, so yes your right it wasn't a controlled demolition but it still COULD be an inside job
@DevildogDean I think that if you really look into the chemistry and physics of it all (in 3 buildings may I add), that these were all CDs. CD experts take months to set up a building to fall into its own footprint, so if this occurs naturally after a few fires they could be missing something here and save millions of dollars!
There is alot of confusion about how molten metal was found a at ground zero but I think I have a theory that is just as good as any govt. theory as to how this could be. You see, if you follow the logic of the top down collapse, the collapse continued well past the basement and collapsed all the way to the center of the earth. Due to the hole going to to the center of the earth, LAVA, not molten steel, bubbled up from the depths of hell, which has lead to confusion.
Except something DID melt steel as documented by FEMA WTC Building Performance Study,appendix C.Which shows steel beams with holes melted completely thru them.FEMA even clearly states there was "MELTING".So,why are you lying?If this process that turns steel beams into Swiss cheese happened when the building was standing it's probably the cause of the collapse & there would be bowing of the columns.The molten metal pouring from WTC2 may have come from the holes melted in steel documented by FEMA
@waitew The holes in that steel were caused by CHEMICAL EROSION, not melting. There's a difference.
And NO, there is NO REASON TO BELIEVE that happened while the building was standing; in fact, the scientists who studied it were clear: The erosion is a result of the steel stewing in the pile in a hot soup of sulfurous mixture over WEEKS. NO ONE described it as "melted."
@TimReed22222 FEMA WTC Building Performance Study,Appendix C: Exact words used,"intergranular MELTING"[Quote FEMA] Also,"The rate of corrosion is UNKNOWN"[Quote FEMA] If someone is going to claim it took weeks,they need to tell us exactly how they determined that.FEMA seems clear that it MAY have happened when the buildings were standing and says so.It was unexpected according to the NY Times,"the swiss Chess appearance SHOCKED ALL the fire-wise professors"[Quote NY Times]
@waitew And what exactly IS "intergranular melting"? How does it differ from "melting"? It is a CHEMICAL phenomenon akin to erosion; it does NOT require steel-melting temperatures.
"I don't find it very mysterious at all, that if I have steel in this sort of a high temperature atmosphere that's rich in oxygen and sulphur this would be the kind of result I would expect." Richard Sisson
@tubemonks No one seems to know for sure, and I certainly don't claim to. It wouldn't be any one substance in any case. But there plenty of possibilities that don't include steel. One is aluminum - each plane delivered 100 tons of it right into each tower, after all - and Al's melting temp is well below the estimated temps of the hottest fires. Another is lead (Fuji Bank kept their batteries backups there). There are others.
@TimReed22222 Lead doesn't glow red when melted! Alu melts at 660c. I any case when the planes hit most of the fuel would have been atomised in an instant as seen on vids. So just office fires then, (mostly plactics) Not enough to melt alu. A constant stream of red hot runny liquid leaves steel. The planes would have only enough fuel on board for a flight from Boston to L.A. not much really. As you say no one really knows which leaves a gaping hole for something more suspicious.
@tubemonks FEMA has made all these statements about what happened and when and how, but can't explain the molten sustance pouring fron the side of the WTCs. Isn't that strange? Everything else seems to have had an answer (although unbelieveable) except this phenomena. I think they didn't reckon on that happeneing and thought - Oh shit!
"when the planes hit most of the fuel would have been atomised" - True! Flaming atomized kerosene - the perfect circumstance for igniting all the OTHER flammable materials in those buildings.
"So just office fires then" - Yes, at temps up to 1000°C!
"Not enough to melt alu." - You might want to check your math again, Sparky! Melting point of Al: 660°C. Temp of the fires: 1000°C.
@TimReed22222 If you heat it hot enough to glow bright red in daylight like molten iron/steel,then it's AS HOT AS molten iron/steel.It sort of defeats the point.
@TimReed22222 Steel was converted from a solid into a liquid,by definition that's 'melting'. Saying it didn't is like claiming water boiling at 10,000' isn't boiling because it's temp is less than 212F.A process damaged the steel such as to weaken it sufficiently as to cause collapse IF it occured before collapse.FEMA says that's possible & the rate of corrosion unknown.If it's now claimed to have taken weeks we must know exactly how that was determined.Opinions not good enough.
@waitew "Steel was converted from a solid into a liquid,by definition that's 'melting'."
Thanks for the science lesson - but as usual you are missing (or evading) the point: The erosion process you're talking about takes place at temperatures LESS THAN the true melting point of steel - so it does NOT indicate that there were temperatures above what could be explained by ordinary office fires.
@TimReed22222 "The erosion process you're talking about takes place at temperatures LESS THAN the true melting point of steel - so it does NOT indicate that there were temperatures above what could be explained by ordinary office fires"[Quote] so,you're saying this 'erosion process' that melted holes through steel happened in the office fires BEFORE collapse?Yes, I agree with you on that one.
@TimReed22222 "The erosion process you're talking about takes place at temperatures LESS THAN the true melting point of steel"[Quote] What difference does it make?Something melted steel into a liquid & liquid steel wont hold up a building.I only needed to prove steel melted (I have) now you need to prove it happened over weeks in the debris pile rather than in the offices fires while the buildings stood (which FEMA said was possible).I don't think you can.New investigation please.
@waitew Usually, when people bring up "melted steel" it is because they think it proves impossibly-high temperatures. It doesn't sound like that's the case you're trying to make - if that's the case, sorry for any confusion.
What would the defense budget be like today without 911?Would we still need a huge Cold War sized Military?Why?who would the enemy be?Communism fell in '91 & that's the whole reason we maintained a huge military after WWII.With the USSR gone nothing but the unwillingness of the people prevented invasion of the Middle East but 911 'fixed' that & kept the defense $ flowing without Communism.911=inside job.
@TAZ4169 You're no American. Neither are any of the dumbass conspiracy theorists that disrespect the thousands of people who lost their lives on 9/11. Get the Hell out of my country.
@jamesfranko29 how about fuck you, and come make me get out. YOU are the fucking traitor. TRAITOR. just like your butt buddy timreed. why don't you two go fuck each other until you bleed to death. 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB.
@jamesfranko29 You are wrong! We are not disrespecting those who lost their lives. It's a matter of JUSTICE for those who died. If someone killed a close relative of yours I suppose you'd be happy if just anyone was convicted of the crime, and the guilty went free?
@jamesfranko29 Oh thats right questioning things about our government makes us less american. hate to tell you but our country was made by americans questioning things. the founders questioned the way the british rulers treated them. questioning government and fighting corruption and evil is a very American thing if you dont know thta your not a true american and dont know history
@tubemonks Hilarious ? your are fucking tubemonkey that needs an ass fucking. maybe with your own arm. THAT would be fucking hilarious. Then we could stick it in your mouth and play dirty sanchez with your fucking bleeding corpse. THAT would be great. it's all relative, ain't it ?
@TAZ4169 Have you seen the video? It's not anti-Truther. I think you've picked on the wrong guy here. You need to make sure you click the correct button. See the video! In any case there's no need for that tirade against anyone, it gives Truthers a bad name and you're doing no one any good.
@tubemonks I hadn't when I commented. Now I have. I have no problem admitting I made a mistake. But I will never accept the govt's tale of 9 11 ever. I am a truther and proud of it. I am very passionate about the truth on that day and people who make "jokes" about mass murder infuriates me. So, the video was Pro truther, a parody. fine. And it happens to be correct. Just the way a person is attacked by asking about an event that day is insane. Sorry if I bitch slapped you.
@08. It's interesting that u bring up the height and width of the towers. How many thermite or cutter connections do u think u would need to bring down a 110 story bldg......twice? Is it plausible to u at all that men entered the bldgs with literally tons of these materials, gained unfettered access to the columns, and left with non of the materials they went in with? Do u think that the only person there at night was the cleaning lady?
@TimReed22222 I make no deals with you. You do not accept the scientific peer reviewed paper because you are too blind to see the truth in whats really going on. Anyone who can argue against proven science is somone who is unwilling to admit to themselves the truth because once you admit its true then you will actualy have to do somthing about it and you are not brave enough to be in the crosshairs like me and like the millions of other truthers.
@foxtrot1162 "You do not accept the scientific peer reviewed paper because [dramatic-sounding rhetoric here]"
Actually, NO. The paper has NOT passed peer review! THAT is why I reject it.
At least, I have been unable to find any info on who may have reviewed it, and what their credentials may be. Do you know? If you could point me to that info, it would be very helpful.
Natural collapses are Chaotic events. You cannot have symmetry from chaos. For any building to fall symmetrically all supporting columns would have to fail simultaneously, otherwise undamaged columns would create resistance in the collapse and would cause the building to either stop collapsing, or fall to the path of least resistance causing a non-symmetrical collapse.
Ok, Intersting video u wanted me to watch. A couple of points. If the point of bringing up Marvin Bush and GWB cousins is an indication that the inside in was in place, Bush was only president for a few months prior to 9/11.
And the video makes up some stuff. The site was under heightened security for months prior to 9/11 true. But they claim all the bomb dogs were removed a week b4 They werent. Sirius, a bomb dog for the PAPD was killed in the south tower collapse.
@Shamrock3939 can you find a link to your information? and many people have pressed for a further investigation. but only the official view is accepted
U can google Swiss reinsurance 9/11. google Securacom 4their information and what they did at the WTC site. Google PAPD and read what their role is at WTC. Google controlled demolition to hear what it sounds like.
My issue is only that there must be cause to. ie evidence. U have probably read tons of stuff about evidence but the reality none exists. Missing docs will be argued, etc. But the main investigative bodies (FDNY, NYPD, PAPD, Steel workers, demolition teams, etc found nothing
@Shamrock3939 i have done. but ive watched stuff saying they did find evidence of thermite, controlled demolitions etc. however i think the most crucial thing about it being an inside job is because of the outcome. 2 buildings were hit, and then now the usa have invaded countries around the middle east. oil rich i may add.
also, how did a republican US governement agree to go to war with iraq with a labour UK governement? labour and conservatives?
@Shamrock3939 dude, here's my last post to you. It's my opinion, that you are attacking citizens of planet earth, who have questions regarding this event. You are NOT asking any questions yourself. Not one. This is foolish and non productive. If you don't think there are devices and technology you aren't even aware of, then you are just naive and ignorant. All of your posts lead to same. You will be benefited by opening your mind up a little.After about 3500 coincedences, are they really ?
@TAZ4169 I did ask questions. Why did Swiss re pay the insurance claim? U seem unwilling to address that. I would think they would be more outraged then even u r. And yet they paid the claim. They investigated the site.
@08lufcjoe marvin left securecom a year b4 9/11 The power outages were not unexpected by many tenants. Many tenants had their own security personel who were keenly aware of secuity issues (see rich riscorla). The site was always on a higher security alert then the rest of the country. If there were any evidence thart securocom did any of the things suggested, why hasnt the PAPD pressed charges or opened their own investigation
@08lufcjoe By the way, the entity that had the most to lose monetarily was Swiss Reinsurance. They insured silverstein properties and Paid out 4.5 billion (combined with others). If they suspected insurance fraud why di they pay? Some truthers claim they fought having to pay it but this is not true at all. The law suit was to determine whether or not the claim would be 1 terrorist attack or 2. In fact, silverstein properties lost the suit.
They are not an American company. Why would they not. if it were an inside govt job, they govt certainly would have set up fall guys ( Siverstein) so Swiss re would sue on the grounds of evidence of insurance fraud. Their govt certainly would make a stink about it as well dont u think. this peace loving country remains silent while evidence of a false flag op. induced a major war? Doesnt pass the common sense, smell test
@Shamrock3939 its not peace loving. look whats happening around the world. afganistan,iraq, libya. iran has always been on the cards and so has north korea
@08lufcjoe complete change of subject. If the reason for this was false flag, i would think the perps would just crash jets into bldgs and not risk all the other crap as it would easily show itself as an inside job. Buts thats just the traitor in me talking. have a good day. Go Giants!
@Shamrock3939 dude. listen. I do NOT agree with you. I do NOT believe these towers fell with ENOUGH resistance, if any, to substantiate claims of jet fuel collapse. I will NEVER agree with you. Jet fuel CANNOT do this. sorry. you believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. And building 7 fell how ? weakened steel ? if you believe that, you are part of the PROBLEM, not part of the solution. It is clear what side of history you'll be on. the wrong side. good for you. traitor.
@TAZ4169 ok Taz, I hear you. Im a traitor. so is The NYPD, FDNY, PAPD, engineering firms, steel workers, demolition teams, etc, etc.
I guess the question of why Swiss Re isnt answerable to u throw a little tantrum, i get it
By the ay, as for #7, google Chief Dan Nigro, he became on site commander after his friend chief Ganci was killed in tower 1 collapse. Read what he has to say about ur therories
@TimReed22222 EXACTLY. I am a truther. I want the truth. so, now, jet fuel did not melt the steel ? the only straw around here is in your head. good luck.
@TimReed22222 right. the towers never fell. no steel melted. all those pictures are fake. the whole event never even happened. I bet if blow hard cocksuckers like you had your way, you'll completely try and remove it from our history. Go fuck yourself. There are so many unanswered quesitons that day, that once again, a fucking retard like is not looking for THE TRUTH. Your just a steaming pile of shit. I feel bad for those that lost their loved ones that day have to deal with this shit
@TimReed22222 retard. You are fucking traitor just like cum stain jamesfrank. even when evidence is produced, you cock eaters ignore it. so now I'm ignoring you. 9 11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB. JET FUEL CANNOT MELT STEEL. Show me one piece of evidence anything can melt steel vented to the atmosphere. It can't fucktard. You guys are enemies of this country. Domestic enemies. I hope you die a miserable fucking death.
Dude, can you understand English?? I siad you are right - because THERE WAS NO MELTED STEEL. NO STEEL MELTED. YOU CANNOT SHOW THAT THERE WAS MELTED STEEL! Get it now?
Name-calling is easy. Proving your case is hard - and you fail to even ATTEMPT it. What evidence have you offered? NONE - only myth & straw-man arguments.
@08lufcjoe ur going to quote a small handful of witnesses who heard explosions and ignore the thousands who also heard explosions but dont believe they were bombs? Sad really.
Many things blew up that day. nothing unusual in any large structural fire. What i find most intersting is many of the guys who claim to have heard explosions HAVE NOT joined in the truth movement. How Come?
u r ignoring the thousands of others. And the guys in that video ARE NOT on ur side today? How come? I beleive people heard explosions that day. I heard them. It DOESNT MEAN THEY WERE BOMBS,
@Shamrock3939 maybe not. but how come the buildings fell at a constant rate?
v=tlAkF7E2nCs&feature=fvwrel at around a minute to half a minute into this video, a firefighter claims that the fires are almost out, and should be able to knock it out even though the collapse is said to be caused by fire according to officials
I tried watchng the vid u references, the address must not be quite right cuz i couldnt see it. But its true much of the fires were burinng themselves out in certain areas. If u r referncing Orio, he was in such a small area of the tower. He was able to get to a part of the bldg that was not destroyed by the jet impacts.
But anyway, the steel was sagging dues to the exposure for up to an hour, some of the vertical loads were already compromised by the jet impacts as well.
@Shamrock3939 the steel on one side of one of the 110 or however many stories there were sagging so that meant the entire super stuctures were pulverised?
@08lufcjoe No, the steel trusses inside the bldg were sagging, not the vertical columns The only thing pulverised was the concrete smashing agaisnt the steel columns. U guys seem to want to ignore the effect of KE in the collapse.
@Shamrock3939 no i meant the trusses were sagging from what looks to be one floor. and one side of that floor, so that meant that almost entire building was turned to dust?
@08lufcjoe It definitely was not 1 floor of sagging trusses But i ask u, where is the sounds of cutter charges. If it was thermite, how did any of the thermite survive the initial inferno created by the jet impacts. As an incendiary, isnt it logical to assume that the thermetic connections react right away to the jet impacts?
@Shamrock3939 i thought you said you was there? those buildings were immense. not only in height, but in width.
i pretty much doubt you would have heard them because they were withing the buildings, with designed windows that were airtight. or very high up in those buildings.
@08lufcjoe As the structure collapse initiated towards the pt of least resistence (the area damaged by the jet impacts) the vertical columns that were not damaged by heat or jet impacts could no longer maintain their loads. They WERE NOT designed to sustain dynamic loads like that.
If i dodnt make that clear, I WAS THERE. dont believeme. I woulnt beleive some guy on youtube who makes such a claim. Ask the FDNY, NYPD, PAPD, structural engineering firms, NEADS, coroners office, FEMA, all 1st responders on site, etc. When u total it up, a few people hearing unusual explosions is not that compelling
@08lufcjoe Thats ok. I wouldnt beleive me eithe if i were u. Just go to any house in the city and ask if anyone was there 10 years ago. They will echo everything I am telling u. Are there some FDNY who doubt the "official" story? Yeah, a very small handful. In fact, Ive asked many friends if they even knew about a Lt. Vodvarka (look him up) and most everyone dont know him or dont want to know him.
at 2:21 of this video, u can easily see the collapse sequence begin with the outter columns bowing inward. Thermite or cutter charges COULD NOT do this. The only explanation is that they were being pulled inward. The only thing that can produce thhis effect is the trusses sagging as they lost their tensil strength.
That FF u reference was a friend of mine Orio Palmer. He was in one section of a bldg that was massive. He was in no way talking about the entire structure. Think about it. If the fires were not so bad why did so many jump?
If u have tangible proof of CD, present it to real journals os science, not YouTube.
Ok taz. The govt lies to us on every major issue and then acknowledges that they lie. That makes a lot of sense.
Thanks for ur service but it obviously has jaded u to the point of not thinking it thru. Thousands of men and women were involved in cleaning the mess. None r claiming to have found evidence of CD. We lost hundreds of colleagues that day. Don't u wonder why do many complain about air quality and none about CD?
People keep mentioning the NIST report as if it is the Holy Grail. If you haven't read it either do so and see the glaring omissions and the fact that they were asked to investigate ONLY certain aspects of the collapse OR see this video - The Ultimate proof NIST is lying about WTC7 This supports what I have said earlier. It isn't comprehensive, but it shows that NIST is untrustworthy. Obviously debunkers will ognore all the omissions and failures, but that is what they do (Oh and get abusive)
@TimReed22222 yes, it was very neat considering the fact it was one of the tallest building in NY
since the building was not damaged evenly, it should not have fallen evenly.
the core of the building was a box housing the vitals of the building, and the stairways and elevator shafts, they were the backbone of the structure, yet aren’t talked about in this video....
why do they have cut marks in a diagonal shape in pics of Ground 0?
do some research, don’t say on this losing argument
@joetufano719 I have read the NIST report and there are lots of areas which should have bee addressed have been ommited for some reason. I don't know about Popular Mechanics but I can't read everything.
NCSTAR1-3 p.iii, 7.7.3..."no steel was recovered from WTC7"
[NCSTAR1A-3.2]"It is likely that much of the burning took place beyond the views of the windows"
[NCSTAR1A-3.2]
"The fires were fed by ordinary office combustibles"
-[NCSTAR 1A 3.6] "This free fall drop continues for approximately 8 stories, the distance traveled between t=1.75s and t=4.0s...constant, downward acceleration during this time interval. This acceleration was 9.8m/s^2, equivalent to the acceleration of gravity."
So men entered two massive towers claiming to be elevator renovators during a time when the entire site was under heightened security. The PAPD allowed them unfettered access to every floor (cuz every floor was rigged according to tubemonks) not one security firm ( see rich riscorla) noticed a thing, tons of materials go in, none come out with the elevator guys. The towers collapse leaving behind zero evidence of its existence. Yeah ok. That's plausible
@Shamrock3939 look up tesla waves. you'll have to look it up and read it on your own. Maybe you should stop attacking the messengers and start looking at the evidence. How can a fireman stand in front of the fire on the 78th floor, radio down to the lobby, and say "we only need two hoses". think about it. If it was as hot as these "debunkers" say (1800 F) could you stand in front of 1800 ? fuck no. start thinking about the evidence and use common sense. You are attacking the wrong people
@Shamrock3939 and what is plausible, are the facts. There was no rubble. experts now agree that thermite would not make 200,000 tons of concrete and steel dissappear. if it had "pancaked" there would be 80 floors stacked up. there were ZERO floors at ground zero. So, Science asks "where did they go" "what could atomize concrete" NOT guys in black in elevator shafts, and whatever bullshit your spewing. look up MARVIN BUSH,Jr's brother. He was towers security. coincedence, I know. smartenup
@TAZ4169 Noting disapeared. Nothng. Ur oint about marvin Bush proves that ur jadedness has clouded ur abilty to reason. 1st off, teh PAPD was in charge of security of the entire complex. its a FACT. Marvinbush worked for SECURACOM, a company that consulted in security installing some systems. he left the company a year before 9/11. If ur paranoia didctates all u beleive, at least have the facts
@Shamrock3939 show me a video, picture or anthing that shows where the debri from the towers went. please. I'm serious. If you don't show me an enormous pile of where all 110 floors went, from both towers and building 7 then don't ever email me again. I was there. the rubble from the towers was not. telling me nothing disappeared on that day tells me you are ill informed and fucking delusional. If I needed shit from some monkey that was those things, I'd listen to our president.
I was there myself Taz, the debris pile was 16 acres, the footprints of the 3 bldgs was 3 acres. It took a year to remove a debris pile that WAS NOT THERE? please taz. Ur just not thinking.
@Shamrock3939 I'm guessing that taz, along with most truthers, are unaware that each tower had 7 basement levels - thus the debris piles were 7 stories higher than they would have us believe.
@TAZ4169 I guess u must beleive that massive explosions must have "atomized" everything u claim is missing. The problem is no massive explosions were observed prior to collapse. And I stress, MASSIVE explosions JUST PRIOR to collapse. explosions were heard, b many FF and Police. Not "bombs", Explosions.
U dont like anyone saying that u r implying FDNY and NYPD complicity, but thats exaclty what u r doing.
@Shamrock3939 what YOU are doing, is not acting like a forensic scientist at a crime scene. which, if you don't want to admit it or not, what ground zero was. You aren't even asking the proper questions, but still doing your kindergarden politics of saying I'm "implying" shit, which I am not. Ask questions. that's all I am doing. questions, ok ? if you have studied US history, you wouldn't be saying the shit you are. Read a book.study pearl harbor. You'll be a lot less stupid. have fun
Dude, u r implying cuz u r claiming something that is not on any record provided by those entities. Dont run away from it. The govt CANNOT control men working in a debris pile. If the govt is claiming facts not present in evidence, then the FDNY and NYPD are complicit by thier silence.
ask all the questions u want. U dont accept the answers. The FDNY are unambiguous, the NYPD, the PAPD, steel workers, demoltion teams, ARE NOT Agents for the govt. And they say NO CD, NO TESLA WAVES
@tube. If I'm so stubbornly wrong why did Swiss re pay 4.5 billion if evidence of insurance fraud exists? Are those adjusters similarly govt shills despite having to pay billions. Are the FDNY shills, NYPD, PAPD, etc etc etc.
@taz. "every single time". Really. Maybe u should just get out if it's that bad
The reality is if u believe everything about 9/11 is a lie then u must believe the FDNY (they will tell u all about 7) NYPD, PAPD (in charge of security) city engineers, city steel workers, etc are co conspirators.
No My lai type objectors. No "deep throat". It's so stupid to think that a massive operation required for could ever get off the ground.
@Shamrock3939 really. Well first off, I take offense to telliing me to "get out". fuck you. you get out. The federal govt. IS NOT the country. I am a disabled war vet. so fuck you again. AND what you are failing to acknowledge is mhy statement that "the gov't lies to us on every major issue" is one that is true. THEY have admitted to lying on every major topic. which means YOU haven't read enough. Get some more books. Your US history is weak This is just too big for you to understand
complete bullshit. this bullshit theory does not address nearly 1000 feet of resistance. They feel too quickly and too uniformly to be a haphazard jet fuel fire. fucking retards. maybe it wasn't demolition people. Check out Scalar waves (tesla waves) and I guess the easter bunny took out building 7. wow, the bunker for the mayor, the FBI, CIA, NSA and everyone else was pretty weak a few little fires, and "bang" gone ! where is the rubble? how come the floors didn't pancake on the bottom ?
Bob ur so polluted with hate for the govt no amount of investigation will do. Everyone who accepts terrorists were the culprits must be govt shills according to u. So why bother u continue with the roid rage rhetoric and verbally assault everyone with common sense
The plausibility of an inside job makes it a non starter. ZERO evidence of CD makes it a non starter. Claiming all the engineering firms who worked up the model are shills is a non starter
@Shamrock3939 just like your brain. a nonstarter. because someone accepts the FACT that the government lies to us on every single occasion, without exception, means they love the country enough to care. You have sold your soul. cheap.
@TAZ4169 What you have to accept is people like shamrock are debunkers and their ego goes before them. Even if they have doubts themselves they will NEVER admit it. They cannot be seen to be wrong on anything and will never admit to having got it wrong. God help his wife!
@tubemonks AND they ignore History. One must study the last 100 years to understand what is going on. This is EXACTLY the same as pearl harbor. And when the fed gov't actually ADMITS they have lied, then no one believes them. It's amazing. I'm just sick of people saying bionically retarded shit like "the whole NYPD would have had to been in on it" which means they haven't read enough to understand the big picture.YOU do not need the numbers to cover this up like you would think. MARVIN BUSH
What happened to the Concrete/steel lift shafts? They disintegrated into dust - If the building frame collapsed then the lift shaft / central column would be standing or at least it would have come down in large pieces - not dust
@tubemonks "If the building frame collapsed then the lift shaft / central column would be standing or at least it would have come down in large pieces - not dust"
Just curious. Is this the opinion of some expert on building collapse - or yours?
@TimReed22222 I don't need someone elses opinion. I am an engineer and know about metal and tesile strength. I'm not some novice. In my opinion it's impossible that pre- stressed, reinforced concrete turns into dust.
@tubemonks Well if you're an engineer, have you ever done the calculation on how much energy was released by each tower's collapse? I have - and the figure is staggering! Run the numbers, then come back & explain why that isn't enough to dustify some concrete.
Gravity, which is the ONLY energy force allowed in the official story, CANNOT push material sideways...it can arc out as it falls, but it CANNOT project with force. gravity is simply not that robust a source. Neither Tower shows any of the expected actions of a collapse, and ALL of the actions of vast energy being expended, not only to shred the Towers, but to cause dustification as well. Gravity cannot act like this.
'OMG! FIFTY KAGILLIONJIGAGAGAWATTTTZZZZ OF ENERGY!@ NOTHING CAN WITHSTAND THAT!##!#!!!'
lol...are your numbers something like that TIMMY?
provide a link to some engineering report of this supposed gravitational collapse that contains the mass distribution information to show how it got around the conservation of momentum to come down so fast....while at the SAME TIME, turning the concrete to DUST
@hgfbob Well, Bob, if you really care - and I know that you do!! - I come up with between 700-800 billion joules - or the equivalent of just under 200 tons of TNT.
@tubemonks Seriously? Ever take a physics class? mgh? Helloo?????
The question was: Can you calculate the potential energy locked up in each tower. I've given you the formula, with a little digging you can work out the rest!
@TimReed22222 It doesn't work like that! The potential energy of a body held a certain distance from the ground - you can, but that calculation won't work with a building. There are so many other factors to take into consideration. You really don't know what you are talking about!
@tubemonks "It doesn't work like that ... that calculation won't work with a building."
Ah, but it does! There's a shortcut you're missing: If you can make an educated guess as to where the center of mass is - pretty close to the physical center, half way up, is a reasonable estimate - you can treat it as a point mass & use ½ the tower's height for h. Yes, it's legit, calculus proves it.
@TimReed22222 You are saying that the centre floor of the building was completely blown away (evenly, at every support at the same time) and the top of the towers then dropped down onto the lower portion of the building? You haven't factored in resistance of the lower floors have you? They came down in freefall, because all the resistance of these floors was taken away. That was acheived is by demolishing the lower floors as it went - CD. You really are a plonker!
'Dude, the towers did NOT come down in freefall; not even close! That's a myth. "
well we all know now that TIMMY is a fuck n LIAR!!!
for INVESTIGATION found that WTC 7, when the kink forms at 1.75 seconds INTO the collapse, we have MEASURED symmetrical unified descent EQUAL to a bowling ball FALLING THROUGH AIR....however there is NO FIRE to affect the perimeter support the facade is attached to to ALLOW this simultaneous collapse...so what did TIMMY!!!!
@TimReed22222 How can I show you another version of the collapses there is only ONE? You would still say it wasn't freefall and I will say it was, so what's the point? We've all seen the same ones. The fact that you've seen them come down should be enough to make you question the virtual zero resistance.If you don't see that, then I might as well be talking to a brick wall
@tubemonks Stop beating around the bush! You said there was video showing the towers coming down in free fall. Well?? Where is it?
I can't say for sure we've seen the same ones; all I can tell you is that the videos I'VE seen clearly show the towers coming down in times far LONGER than free fall.
Here's one: watch?v=ESaIEVxLnK4 <-- time it yourself! That's at least 20 seconds, MORE THAN TWICE THE TIME OF FREE FALL!
@TimReed22222 so they fell in a different dimension ? How can something that can be verified be a myth ? stop attacking the people looking for the truth, and learn how to be an investigator. they did not have ANY resisitance on the way down. ZERO. to believe the 9 11 commission is to be clinically insane.
@TimReed22222 Some concrete to dust yes, but not all. What are you a mathematician? have a Phd in Physics? No, I think you are a bullshitter! No I couldn't do the maths and neither can you - Grow up.
@TimReed22222 Don't talk crap! High school level physics to understand the collapse of WTC 1&2!!!! I sure my qualifications are superior to yours, but no I can't do the maths for the collapse of two skyscrapers, and as I said neither can you. Potential energy calculations that won't tell you anything. You need to take into account the resistance of the floors below as well - What crap you talk!
you didnt mention anything about wtc7..hmmm..wonder why? can't defend the obvious
katiepeace16 15 hours ago
@TimReed22222 Further, there are plenty (a few thousand) engineers and architects that will tell you it was a controlled demolition. Couple that with NYC firefighters and first hand witnesses saying they heard multiple explosions--you can hear them during amateur videos. Accept that this was a govt carried out false flag attack. These things have been going on for years to justify going to war to make profits for the military industrial complex and further the advance for a one world government.
TheReptilianBrain 1 day ago
@TheReptilianBrain "Further, there are plenty (a few thousand) engineers and architects that will tell you it was a controlled demolition."
BULLSHIT - they said NO SUCH THING. They signed a petition calling for further investigation - PERIOD.
"NYC firefighters ... saying they heard multiple explosions"
Explosion sounds have many possible causes, but if you can find ANY FDNY who were there that day who believe they heard CD charges, please present them.
TimReed22222 13 hours ago
1. Explosions were heard by firemen in the basements of the towers.
2. There is plenty of footage showing molten steel flowing from the towers many many floors below the area of impact.
3. Traces of thermite (military grade explosive) were found in the dust/rubble of the towers.
4. Structural failure or not, towers would not have fallen at free fall speeds without the aid of explosives.
5. What about WTC 7? No plane hit, yet still collapsed at free fall speed.
RESEARCH.
TheReptilianBrain 1 day ago
@TheReptilianBrain
1. Explosions have many causes; not all of those are bombs.
2. How do you know that's steel?
3. Thermite has NOT been verified by any independent experts.
4. They didn't. That's a myth.
5. Are you saying 7 was undamaged? Are you saying it wasn't on fire?
Before you lecture other to RESEARCH, why not try some yourself?
TimReed22222 1 day ago
@TimReed22222 1. I'm not trying to be a dick.
2. A plane crashing into the highest levels of a building will NEVER cause the basement floors to blow out as they did.
3. Nanothermite HAS been confirmed and detected in the rubble of these towers.
4. Towers that fall from structural failure don't fall at free-fall speeds. If they do, suspect demolition.
Fuck it. We don't have enough characters. Expect a personal email.
TheReptilianBrain 1 day ago
@TheReptilianBrain
1. ?
2. (I think you put the answer to #1 here, but ...) Plane crashes into tower, exploding fuel is forced down elevator shafts - hence explosions in basement. Falling elevators were also described as sounding like explosions.
2. How do you know that's steel?
3. By WHOM? What INDEPENDENT, UNBIASED thermite experts verified thermite?
4. The towers DID NOT FALL IN FREE-FALL time. You have been misled.
I don't carry out these debates by email, thanks.
TimReed22222 1 day ago
@TimReed22222
'Plane crashes into tower, exploding fuel is forced down elevator shafts'
lol...PROVE IT TIMMY!!!
no one else has.
"The towers DID NOT FALL IN FREE-FALL"
-[NCSTAR 1A 3.6] "This free fall drop continues for approximately 8 stories, the distance traveled between t=1.75s and t=4.0s...constant, downward acceleration during this time interval. This acceleration was 9.8m/s^2, equivalent to the acceleration of gravity."
seems that DID OCCUR TIMMY!!!
why do YOU LIE?
hgfbob 1 day ago
@hgfbob Yeah I got a scientific peer reviewed paper that i found not too long ago do you want me to send it to your inbox.
foxtrot1162 1 hour ago
@TimReed22222
"DID NOT FALL IN FREE-FALL "
YOU are all taking 'free-fall' too literally. Yes, less than free-fall means there was at least air resistance. But when it comes to a building collapse the resistance should be MASSIVE, so a few seconds less than free-fall speed does not equate to resistance in the system that should have been there. The symmetry shows that there was no resistance from the buildings structure, as that resistance cannot be symmetrical unless controlled.
hgfbob 1 day ago
@TimReed22222 1. I'm done numbering.
Seems strange the fire was hot enough to melt steel yet not hot enough that a woman could stand at the impact zone and wave helplessly to helicopters. Most of the fuel was burnt off in the initial fireball. True, there was some residual, but the towers were specifically designed to withstand a plane impact (that includes fuel). Doesn't really matter about the twin towers, when you look at WTC 7, the rest of the official story collapses--pun intended.
TheReptilianBrain 1 day ago
@TheReptilianBrain NO, the fire was NOT hot enough to melt steel; there was none! ZERO EVIDENCE OF MELTED STEEL.
And in case you didn't notice, the fires were NOT burning where that poor woman was. The images you're thinking of are of the NORTH side of the building & were taken 45' after the crash; by that time the fires had moved to the SOUTH side. THINK - why would those people have moved *towards* fire? Of course, they wouldn't; they were ESCAPING the fire.
TimReed22222 13 hours ago
"Most of the fuel was burnt off in the initial fireball" IGNITING the tower's contents, starting the REAL fires.
"the towers were specifically designed to withstand a plane impact" TRUE. "that includes fuel" FALSE!
"Little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance. Indeed, at that time, no fireproofing systems were available to control the effects of such fires." - Leslie Robertson, Chief Structural Engineer.
TimReed22222 13 hours ago
Oh there is no doubt our people have the capability and are willing to kill us, realize, we aren't their family or friends, they could care less about us, presidents were meant to be friends with the people not stuck up dicks that worry about themselves and money. Their economics not ours.
DevildogDean 2 days ago
and again the debunkers debunk nothing. what about building 7 as well as the molten metal? what about all the other one in a million shots that came together that day. what about norman minetta's testimony putting cheney at the bunker hours before he claimed to be there, ect, ect, ect. I've studied 911 nonstop for 6 years now, and all you debunkers are just like I was, afraid to beleive our people could have done this. guys,,,,,beleive it.
aradarad5 2 days ago
The red stuff was molten steel and this fuckwad thinks the steel wasn't melted, and also no matter what your stupid trying to disprove this, a controlled demolition wouldn't make steel melt so why the hell do you bring it up? Here's what would happen *BOOM* some random people in New York then get hit with steel, so yes your right it wasn't a controlled demolition but it still COULD be an inside job
DevildogDean 3 days ago
@DevildogDean I think that if you really look into the chemistry and physics of it all (in 3 buildings may I add), that these were all CDs. CD experts take months to set up a building to fall into its own footprint, so if this occurs naturally after a few fires they could be missing something here and save millions of dollars!
tubemonks 3 days ago
There is alot of confusion about how molten metal was found a at ground zero but I think I have a theory that is just as good as any govt. theory as to how this could be. You see, if you follow the logic of the top down collapse, the collapse continued well past the basement and collapsed all the way to the center of the earth. Due to the hole going to to the center of the earth, LAVA, not molten steel, bubbled up from the depths of hell, which has lead to confusion.
dlucas90 3 days ago
@TAZ4169
why dont you open your fucking eyes you jackass take the blinders off and see what has happened.
vidasgsx 4 days ago
Except something DID melt steel as documented by FEMA WTC Building Performance Study,appendix C.Which shows steel beams with holes melted completely thru them.FEMA even clearly states there was "MELTING".So,why are you lying?If this process that turns steel beams into Swiss cheese happened when the building was standing it's probably the cause of the collapse & there would be bowing of the columns.The molten metal pouring from WTC2 may have come from the holes melted in steel documented by FEMA
waitew 4 days ago
@waitew The holes in that steel were caused by CHEMICAL EROSION, not melting. There's a difference.
And NO, there is NO REASON TO BELIEVE that happened while the building was standing; in fact, the scientists who studied it were clear: The erosion is a result of the steel stewing in the pile in a hot soup of sulfurous mixture over WEEKS. NO ONE described it as "melted."
TimReed22222 4 days ago
@TimReed22222 FEMA WTC Building Performance Study,Appendix C: Exact words used,"intergranular MELTING"[Quote FEMA] Also,"The rate of corrosion is UNKNOWN"[Quote FEMA] If someone is going to claim it took weeks,they need to tell us exactly how they determined that.FEMA seems clear that it MAY have happened when the buildings were standing and says so.It was unexpected according to the NY Times,"the swiss Chess appearance SHOCKED ALL the fire-wise professors"[Quote NY Times]
waitew 4 days ago
@waitew And what exactly IS "intergranular melting"? How does it differ from "melting"? It is a CHEMICAL phenomenon akin to erosion; it does NOT require steel-melting temperatures.
"I don't find it very mysterious at all, that if I have steel in this sort of a high temperature atmosphere that's rich in oxygen and sulphur this would be the kind of result I would expect." Richard Sisson
TimReed22222 4 days ago
@TimReed22222 So what was the red glowing stuff pouring out of the towers, If you are so informed as you think you are, then maybe you can tell us?
tubemonks 3 days ago
@tubemonks No one seems to know for sure, and I certainly don't claim to. It wouldn't be any one substance in any case. But there plenty of possibilities that don't include steel. One is aluminum - each plane delivered 100 tons of it right into each tower, after all - and Al's melting temp is well below the estimated temps of the hottest fires. Another is lead (Fuji Bank kept their batteries backups there). There are others.
But I suppose you already know all that.
TimReed22222 3 days ago
@TimReed22222 Lead doesn't glow red when melted! Alu melts at 660c. I any case when the planes hit most of the fuel would have been atomised in an instant as seen on vids. So just office fires then, (mostly plactics) Not enough to melt alu. A constant stream of red hot runny liquid leaves steel. The planes would have only enough fuel on board for a flight from Boston to L.A. not much really. As you say no one really knows which leaves a gaping hole for something more suspicious.
tubemonks 3 days ago
@tubemonks FEMA has made all these statements about what happened and when and how, but can't explain the molten sustance pouring fron the side of the WTCs. Isn't that strange? Everything else seems to have had an answer (although unbelieveable) except this phenomena. I think they didn't reckon on that happeneing and thought - Oh shit!
tubemonks 3 days ago
@tubemonks "Alu melts at 660c." - True.
"when the planes hit most of the fuel would have been atomised" - True! Flaming atomized kerosene - the perfect circumstance for igniting all the OTHER flammable materials in those buildings.
"So just office fires then" - Yes, at temps up to 1000°C!
"Not enough to melt alu." - You might want to check your math again, Sparky! Melting point of Al: 660°C. Temp of the fires: 1000°C.
So yes, it IS enough to melt Al.
TimReed22222 2 days ago
@TimReed22222
'You might want to check your math again, Sparky!"
for AIR temps are NOT STEEL TEMPS.....are they TIMMY!!!!
"Temp of the fires: 1000°C"
temp of RECOVERED WTC STEEL..."no core column examined showed temp. above 250C" NIST 1-3 p.95,101,132
so TIMMY!!!
where is the REPRESENTATION of HIGH temp steel that FAILED from the FIRES PRESENT to give DIRECTION to the HYPOTHESIS?
hgfbob 2 days ago
@hgfbob "emp of RECOVERED WTC STEEL..."no core column examined showed temp. above 250C" NIST 1-3 p.95,101,132"
- You're referring to steel that was mostly not from the impact floors.
So the temps it showed were totally expected and completely consistent with NISTs hypothesis.
You know this. But you have no actual evidence to dishonestly attempting to distort test results is the best you can do
Pathetic.
markh1011 2 days ago
@TimReed22222 Also Alu dosen't glow red either. I can't think of anything but steel can you?
tubemonks 3 days ago
@tubemonks "Also Alu dosen't glow red either." - YES IT DOES, *if* you heat it hot enough! Here's the proof: watch?v=A796N_YZTm8
"I can't think of anything but steel can you?" - Lack of imagination in truthers is nothing new.
TimReed22222 2 days ago
@TimReed22222 If you heat it hot enough to glow bright red in daylight like molten iron/steel,then it's AS HOT AS molten iron/steel.It sort of defeats the point.
waitew 2 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TimReed22222
"YES IT DOES, *if* you heat it hot enough! Here's the proof: watch?v=A796N_YZTm8"
ROTFLMAO....which idiot is YOU TIMMY!!!!!
looks WHITE to me fool....even after they pour it in and it pops out, it's STILL WHITE.
oh, and how hot was that again TIMMY!!!.....MUCH hotter than an open air HYDROCARBON fire can produce, huh.
hgfbob 2 days ago
@TimReed22222 Steel was converted from a solid into a liquid,by definition that's 'melting'. Saying it didn't is like claiming water boiling at 10,000' isn't boiling because it's temp is less than 212F.A process damaged the steel such as to weaken it sufficiently as to cause collapse IF it occured before collapse.FEMA says that's possible & the rate of corrosion unknown.If it's now claimed to have taken weeks we must know exactly how that was determined.Opinions not good enough.
waitew 3 days ago
@waitew "Steel was converted from a solid into a liquid,by definition that's 'melting'."
Thanks for the science lesson - but as usual you are missing (or evading) the point: The erosion process you're talking about takes place at temperatures LESS THAN the true melting point of steel - so it does NOT indicate that there were temperatures above what could be explained by ordinary office fires.
TimReed22222 3 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TimReed22222 "The erosion process you're talking about takes place at temperatures LESS THAN the true melting point of steel - so it does NOT indicate that there were temperatures above what could be explained by ordinary office fires"[Quote] so,you're saying this 'erosion process' that melted holes through steel happened in the office fires BEFORE collapse?Yes, I agree with you on that one.
waitew 2 days ago
@TimReed22222 "The erosion process you're talking about takes place at temperatures LESS THAN the true melting point of steel"[Quote] What difference does it make?Something melted steel into a liquid & liquid steel wont hold up a building.I only needed to prove steel melted (I have) now you need to prove it happened over weeks in the debris pile rather than in the offices fires while the buildings stood (which FEMA said was possible).I don't think you can.New investigation please.
waitew 2 days ago
@waitew Usually, when people bring up "melted steel" it is because they think it proves impossibly-high temperatures. It doesn't sound like that's the case you're trying to make - if that's the case, sorry for any confusion.
Good luck with that investigation.
TimReed22222 2 days ago
@TimReed22222
'when people bring up "melted steel" it is because they think it proves impossibly-high temperatures'
lol...well fuck n DUH TIMMY!!!!!
MUCH HIGHER than an 'open air hydrocarbon fire can produce'.
however, investigation did NOT find WTC steel that FAILED from the ...FIRES PRESENT...did they.
"no core column examined showed temp. above 250C" NIST 1-3 p.95,101,132
but they LATER HYPOTHESIZE they did...why don't YOU point out in the NIST REPORT where this steel is?
hgfbob 2 days ago
@TimReed22222 Thank you.I'll keep searching.I'm glad we kept our conversation reasonably polite.That doesn't happen too often.
waitew 1 day ago
This has been flagged as spam show
What would the defense budget be like today without 911?Would we still need a huge Cold War sized Military?Why?who would the enemy be?Communism fell in '91 & that's the whole reason we maintained a huge military after WWII.With the USSR gone nothing but the unwillingness of the people prevented invasion of the Middle East but 911 'fixed' that & kept the defense $ flowing without Communism.911=inside job.
waitew 4 days ago
Is there a Debunking of WT7 (Building7)?? I'd like 2 see that..
American0313 5 days ago
9 11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB. BE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY FOLKS. ITS YOU AND ME THEY ATTACKED. WAKE UP AMERICA.
TAZ4169 6 days ago
@TAZ4169 You're no American. Neither are any of the dumbass conspiracy theorists that disrespect the thousands of people who lost their lives on 9/11. Get the Hell out of my country.
jamesfranko29 6 days ago
@jamesfranko29 how about fuck you, and come make me get out. YOU are the fucking traitor. TRAITOR. just like your butt buddy timreed. why don't you two go fuck each other until you bleed to death. 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB.
TAZ4169 6 days ago
@jamesfranko29 You are wrong! We are not disrespecting those who lost their lives. It's a matter of JUSTICE for those who died. If someone killed a close relative of yours I suppose you'd be happy if just anyone was convicted of the crime, and the guilty went free?
tubemonks 5 days ago
@jamesfranko29 Oh thats right questioning things about our government makes us less american. hate to tell you but our country was made by americans questioning things. the founders questioned the way the british rulers treated them. questioning government and fighting corruption and evil is a very American thing if you dont know thta your not a true american and dont know history
foxtrot1162 5 days ago
See the vid - How to destroy a 9/11 Truther - hilarious! A very good description of debunkers - great
tubemonks 6 days ago
@tubemonks Hilarious ? your are fucking tubemonkey that needs an ass fucking. maybe with your own arm. THAT would be fucking hilarious. Then we could stick it in your mouth and play dirty sanchez with your fucking bleeding corpse. THAT would be great. it's all relative, ain't it ?
TAZ4169 6 days ago
Comment removed
tubemonks 5 days ago
@TAZ4169 Have you seen the video? It's not anti-Truther. I think you've picked on the wrong guy here. You need to make sure you click the correct button. See the video! In any case there's no need for that tirade against anyone, it gives Truthers a bad name and you're doing no one any good.
tubemonks 5 days ago
@tubemonks I hadn't when I commented. Now I have. I have no problem admitting I made a mistake. But I will never accept the govt's tale of 9 11 ever. I am a truther and proud of it. I am very passionate about the truth on that day and people who make "jokes" about mass murder infuriates me. So, the video was Pro truther, a parody. fine. And it happens to be correct. Just the way a person is attacked by asking about an event that day is insane. Sorry if I bitch slapped you.
TAZ4169 5 days ago
@08. It's interesting that u bring up the height and width of the towers. How many thermite or cutter connections do u think u would need to bring down a 110 story bldg......twice? Is it plausible to u at all that men entered the bldgs with literally tons of these materials, gained unfettered access to the columns, and left with non of the materials they went in with? Do u think that the only person there at night was the cleaning lady?
Watch a real demolition and tell me what u hear
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 hmmm its a good job i rechecked considering you deleted my user name to simply 08.
watch?v=eK2rVhOukqM there you go
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
@08lufcjoe watch?v=z6QdZVp3wg4
TimReed22222 6 days ago
@TimReed22222 I make no deals with you. You do not accept the scientific peer reviewed paper because you are too blind to see the truth in whats really going on. Anyone who can argue against proven science is somone who is unwilling to admit to themselves the truth because once you admit its true then you will actualy have to do somthing about it and you are not brave enough to be in the crosshairs like me and like the millions of other truthers.
foxtrot1162 5 days ago
@foxtrot1162 "You do not accept the scientific peer reviewed paper because [dramatic-sounding rhetoric here]"
Actually, NO. The paper has NOT passed peer review! THAT is why I reject it.
At least, I have been unable to find any info on who may have reviewed it, and what their credentials may be. Do you know? If you could point me to that info, it would be very helpful.
TimReed22222 5 days ago
@foxtrot1162
"scientific peer reviewed paper"
what peer reviewed paper?
'who can argue against proven science "
Natural collapses are Chaotic events. You cannot have symmetry from chaos. For any building to fall symmetrically all supporting columns would have to fail simultaneously, otherwise undamaged columns would create resistance in the collapse and would cause the building to either stop collapsing, or fall to the path of least resistance causing a non-symmetrical collapse.
hgfbob 5 days ago
Ok, Intersting video u wanted me to watch. A couple of points. If the point of bringing up Marvin Bush and GWB cousins is an indication that the inside in was in place, Bush was only president for a few months prior to 9/11.
And the video makes up some stuff. The site was under heightened security for months prior to 9/11 true. But they claim all the bomb dogs were removed a week b4 They werent. Sirius, a bomb dog for the PAPD was killed in the south tower collapse.
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 can you find a link to your information? and many people have pressed for a further investigation. but only the official view is accepted
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
U can google Swiss reinsurance 9/11. google Securacom 4their information and what they did at the WTC site. Google PAPD and read what their role is at WTC. Google controlled demolition to hear what it sounds like.
My issue is only that there must be cause to. ie evidence. U have probably read tons of stuff about evidence but the reality none exists. Missing docs will be argued, etc. But the main investigative bodies (FDNY, NYPD, PAPD, Steel workers, demolition teams, etc found nothing
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 i have done. but ive watched stuff saying they did find evidence of thermite, controlled demolitions etc. however i think the most crucial thing about it being an inside job is because of the outcome. 2 buildings were hit, and then now the usa have invaded countries around the middle east. oil rich i may add.
also, how did a republican US governement agree to go to war with iraq with a labour UK governement? labour and conservatives?
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 dude, here's my last post to you. It's my opinion, that you are attacking citizens of planet earth, who have questions regarding this event. You are NOT asking any questions yourself. Not one. This is foolish and non productive. If you don't think there are devices and technology you aren't even aware of, then you are just naive and ignorant. All of your posts lead to same. You will be benefited by opening your mind up a little.After about 3500 coincedences, are they really ?
TAZ4169 6 days ago
@TAZ4169 I did ask questions. Why did Swiss re pay the insurance claim? U seem unwilling to address that. I would think they would be more outraged then even u r. And yet they paid the claim. They investigated the site.
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@08lufcjoe marvin left securecom a year b4 9/11 The power outages were not unexpected by many tenants. Many tenants had their own security personel who were keenly aware of secuity issues (see rich riscorla). The site was always on a higher security alert then the rest of the country. If there were any evidence thart securocom did any of the things suggested, why hasnt the PAPD pressed charges or opened their own investigation
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@08lufcjoe By the way, the entity that had the most to lose monetarily was Swiss Reinsurance. They insured silverstein properties and Paid out 4.5 billion (combined with others). If they suspected insurance fraud why di they pay? Some truthers claim they fought having to pay it but this is not true at all. The law suit was to determine whether or not the claim would be 1 terrorist attack or 2. In fact, silverstein properties lost the suit.
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 if they did that then swiss reinsurance would be accusing the US of 911, which im pretty sure they wouldn want to do that
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
They are not an American company. Why would they not. if it were an inside govt job, they govt certainly would have set up fall guys ( Siverstein) so Swiss re would sue on the grounds of evidence of insurance fraud. Their govt certainly would make a stink about it as well dont u think. this peace loving country remains silent while evidence of a false flag op. induced a major war? Doesnt pass the common sense, smell test
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 its not peace loving. look whats happening around the world. afganistan,iraq, libya. iran has always been on the cards and so has north korea
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
@08lufcjoe complete change of subject. If the reason for this was false flag, i would think the perps would just crash jets into bldgs and not risk all the other crap as it would easily show itself as an inside job. Buts thats just the traitor in me talking. have a good day. Go Giants!
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 i dont beleive its crap. but never mind
you have a good day too
its been good debating with someone who hasnt called me 'dumb twoofer' or whatever else ive benn called
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
@08lufcjoe you too joe. ive been called all sorts of names as well. We should be able to be civilized about it.
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 watch?v=7dRVVzuUPUY&feature=related
watch from about 4.05. the police woman saying that the north tower is coming down, before it actually does.
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
@08lufcjoe So the police women is in on the conspiracy. This massive false flag op is employing city officers? C'mon.
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 dude. listen. I do NOT agree with you. I do NOT believe these towers fell with ENOUGH resistance, if any, to substantiate claims of jet fuel collapse. I will NEVER agree with you. Jet fuel CANNOT do this. sorry. you believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. And building 7 fell how ? weakened steel ? if you believe that, you are part of the PROBLEM, not part of the solution. It is clear what side of history you'll be on. the wrong side. good for you. traitor.
TAZ4169 6 days ago
@TAZ4169 ok Taz, I hear you. Im a traitor. so is The NYPD, FDNY, PAPD, engineering firms, steel workers, demolition teams, etc, etc.
I guess the question of why Swiss Re isnt answerable to u throw a little tantrum, i get it
By the ay, as for #7, google Chief Dan Nigro, he became on site commander after his friend chief Ganci was killed in tower 1 collapse. Read what he has to say about ur therories
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@TAZ4169 "I do NOT believe these towers fell with ENOUGH resistance"
Why not? How much resistance SHOULD there have been? Can you back your estimate with math & expertise, or is that just your opinion?
Note that REAL STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS who studied it in depth do NOT agree with you - NONE have raised the not-enough-resistance issue.
"to substantiate claims of jet fuel collapse ... Jet fuel CANNOT do this"
NO ONE ever said it did! That's a truther straw-man.
TimReed22222 6 days ago
@TimReed22222 EXACTLY. I am a truther. I want the truth. so, now, jet fuel did not melt the steel ? the only straw around here is in your head. good luck.
TAZ4169 6 days ago
@TAZ4169 "so, now, jet fuel did not melt the steel ?"
Correct; you see, there is NO PROOF that ANY steel melted at all - so neither jet fuel nor anything else melted any.
Get it?
TimReed22222 6 days ago
@TimReed22222 right. the towers never fell. no steel melted. all those pictures are fake. the whole event never even happened. I bet if blow hard cocksuckers like you had your way, you'll completely try and remove it from our history. Go fuck yourself. There are so many unanswered quesitons that day, that once again, a fucking retard like is not looking for THE TRUTH. Your just a steaming pile of shit. I feel bad for those that lost their loved ones that day have to deal with this shit
TAZ4169 6 days ago
@TAZ4169 "right. the towers never fell. no steel melted. all those pictures are fake. the whole event never even happened"
? Sounds like you've gone off the deep end; taz. What the hell are you taking about? What pictures?
TimReed22222 6 days ago
@TimReed22222 find someone else to harrass. thank you.
TAZ4169 6 days ago
@TAZ4169 Okay, let's review some of the points you've been wrong about & failed to defend:
- No molten steel (you said there you pics; where are they?)
- No reason to assume the blds should have fallen over (you offered NO building or physics expertise)
- Collapse met with PLENTY of resistance (you claimed there was none)
- There was PLENTY of rubble; none was unaccounted for (you claimed there was none)
Do you believe ANYTHING that's actually provable? lol
TimReed22222 6 days ago
@TimReed22222 retard. You are fucking traitor just like cum stain jamesfrank. even when evidence is produced, you cock eaters ignore it. so now I'm ignoring you. 9 11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB. JET FUEL CANNOT MELT STEEL. Show me one piece of evidence anything can melt steel vented to the atmosphere. It can't fucktard. You guys are enemies of this country. Domestic enemies. I hope you die a miserable fucking death.
TAZ4169 6 days ago
@TAZ4169 "JET FUEL CANNOT MELT STEEL"
Dude, can you understand English?? I siad you are right - because THERE WAS NO MELTED STEEL. NO STEEL MELTED. YOU CANNOT SHOW THAT THERE WAS MELTED STEEL! Get it now?
Name-calling is easy. Proving your case is hard - and you fail to even ATTEMPT it. What evidence have you offered? NONE - only myth & straw-man arguments.
TimReed22222 6 days ago
@TimReed22222
"What evidence have you offered? NONE - only myth & straw-man arguments'
as you do TIMMY!!!....where is YOUR EVIDENCE??
asking questions needs NO EVIDENCE.
where is the WTC steel that GIVES DIRECTION to a HYPOTHESIS that FIRE ALONE caused the collapse of ALL three buildings....
investigation did NOT find any
"no core column examined showed temp. above 250C" NIST 1-3 p.95,101,132
where is the 'REPRESENTATION of HIGH TEMP steel that FAILED from the FIRES PRESENT.
hgfbob 5 days ago
research '911gate'. watch what the witnesses that were there say. not the biased officials
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
@08lufcjoe ur going to quote a small handful of witnesses who heard explosions and ignore the thousands who also heard explosions but dont believe they were bombs? Sad really.
Many things blew up that day. nothing unusual in any large structural fire. What i find most intersting is many of the guys who claim to have heard explosions HAVE NOT joined in the truth movement. How Come?
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 that makes it wrong i suppose?
how come? heres why. watch?v=kxGB2YoGV-I
but dont beleive them. i mean people who werent there obviously know exactly what happened?
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
u r ignoring the thousands of others. And the guys in that video ARE NOT on ur side today? How come? I beleive people heard explosions that day. I heard them. It DOESNT MEAN THEY WERE BOMBS,
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 maybe not. but how come the buildings fell at a constant rate?
v=tlAkF7E2nCs&feature=fvwrel at around a minute to half a minute into this video, a firefighter claims that the fires are almost out, and should be able to knock it out even though the collapse is said to be caused by fire according to officials
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
I tried watchng the vid u references, the address must not be quite right cuz i couldnt see it. But its true much of the fires were burinng themselves out in certain areas. If u r referncing Orio, he was in such a small area of the tower. He was able to get to a part of the bldg that was not destroyed by the jet impacts.
But anyway, the steel was sagging dues to the exposure for up to an hour, some of the vertical loads were already compromised by the jet impacts as well.
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 the steel on one side of one of the 110 or however many stories there were sagging so that meant the entire super stuctures were pulverised?
sorry my mistake
watch?v=tlAkF7E2nCs&feature=fvsr
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
@08lufcjoe No, the steel trusses inside the bldg were sagging, not the vertical columns The only thing pulverised was the concrete smashing agaisnt the steel columns. U guys seem to want to ignore the effect of KE in the collapse.
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 no i meant the trusses were sagging from what looks to be one floor. and one side of that floor, so that meant that almost entire building was turned to dust?
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
@08lufcjoe It definitely was not 1 floor of sagging trusses But i ask u, where is the sounds of cutter charges. If it was thermite, how did any of the thermite survive the initial inferno created by the jet impacts. As an incendiary, isnt it logical to assume that the thermetic connections react right away to the jet impacts?
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 i thought you said you was there? those buildings were immense. not only in height, but in width.
i pretty much doubt you would have heard them because they were withing the buildings, with designed windows that were airtight. or very high up in those buildings.
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 Don't forget the many tons of gypsum sheetrock; no doubt a great deal of the dust was from this.
TimReed22222 6 days ago
@08lufcjoe As the structure collapse initiated towards the pt of least resistence (the area damaged by the jet impacts) the vertical columns that were not damaged by heat or jet impacts could no longer maintain their loads. They WERE NOT designed to sustain dynamic loads like that.
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 When I saw this I thought of you and Tim???whatever -
How To Destroy a 9/11 Truther - Everyone has to see this.
tubemonks 6 days ago
If i dodnt make that clear, I WAS THERE. dont believeme. I woulnt beleive some guy on youtube who makes such a claim. Ask the FDNY, NYPD, PAPD, structural engineering firms, NEADS, coroners office, FEMA, all 1st responders on site, etc. When u total it up, a few people hearing unusual explosions is not that compelling
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 cont. no i dont beleive you was there
08lufcjoe 6 days ago
@08lufcjoe Thats ok. I wouldnt beleive me eithe if i were u. Just go to any house in the city and ask if anyone was there 10 years ago. They will echo everything I am telling u. Are there some FDNY who doubt the "official" story? Yeah, a very small handful. In fact, Ive asked many friends if they even knew about a Lt. Vodvarka (look him up) and most everyone dont know him or dont want to know him.
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
at 2:21 of this video, u can easily see the collapse sequence begin with the outter columns bowing inward. Thermite or cutter charges COULD NOT do this. The only explanation is that they were being pulled inward. The only thing that can produce thhis effect is the trusses sagging as they lost their tensil strength.
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
That FF u reference was a friend of mine Orio Palmer. He was in one section of a bldg that was massive. He was in no way talking about the entire structure. Think about it. If the fires were not so bad why did so many jump?
If u have tangible proof of CD, present it to real journals os science, not YouTube.
I
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
Ok taz. The govt lies to us on every major issue and then acknowledges that they lie. That makes a lot of sense.
Thanks for ur service but it obviously has jaded u to the point of not thinking it thru. Thousands of men and women were involved in cleaning the mess. None r claiming to have found evidence of CD. We lost hundreds of colleagues that day. Don't u wonder why do many complain about air quality and none about CD?
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
Everyone has to see this video - How To Destroy a 9/11 Truther - I think it expains all very amusing.
tubemonks 6 days ago
People keep mentioning the NIST report as if it is the Holy Grail. If you haven't read it either do so and see the glaring omissions and the fact that they were asked to investigate ONLY certain aspects of the collapse OR see this video - The Ultimate proof NIST is lying about WTC7 This supports what I have said earlier. It isn't comprehensive, but it shows that NIST is untrustworthy. Obviously debunkers will ognore all the omissions and failures, but that is what they do (Oh and get abusive)
tubemonks 6 days ago
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tubemonks 6 days ago
clearly a controlled demolition, just like building 7
you can even see building 7 sink in the center just before it starts to come down, just like most demos I’ve seen.
phantomcharger 1 week ago
so how did the solid steel center structure, huge vertical steel beams come down, in a nice neat pile?
did fire weaken 4 foot wide steel beams too?, lol
there is so much info out their on this now,
I also noticed how the smoke in your video seems to bend to, suggesting your video has been manipulated
phantomcharger 1 week ago
@phantomcharger "so how did the solid steel center structure, huge vertical steel beams come down, in a nice neat pile?"
Neat? NEAT??? Have you SEEN any photos of ground zero? You call that neat?!?
Sheesh, the truth movement gets lamer by the day.
TimReed22222 1 week ago
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phantomcharger 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TimReed22222 yes, it was very neat considering the fact it was one of the tallest building in NY
since the building was not damaged evenly, it should not have fallen evenly.
the core of the building was a box housing the vitals of the building, and the stairways and elevator shafts, they were the backbone of the structure, yet aren’t talked about in this video....
why do they have cut marks in a diagonal shape in pics of Ground 0?
do some research, don’t say on this losing argument
phantomcharger 1 week ago
@joetufano719 I have read the NIST report and there are lots of areas which should have bee addressed have been ommited for some reason. I don't know about Popular Mechanics but I can't read everything.
tubemonks 1 week ago
NCSTAR1-3 p.iii, 7.7.3..."no steel was recovered from WTC7"
[NCSTAR1A-3.2]"It is likely that much of the burning took place beyond the views of the windows"
[NCSTAR1A-3.2]
"The fires were fed by ordinary office combustibles"
-[NCSTAR 1A 3.6] "This free fall drop continues for approximately 8 stories, the distance traveled between t=1.75s and t=4.0s...constant, downward acceleration during this time interval. This acceleration was 9.8m/s^2, equivalent to the acceleration of gravity."
hgfbob 1 week ago
So men entered two massive towers claiming to be elevator renovators during a time when the entire site was under heightened security. The PAPD allowed them unfettered access to every floor (cuz every floor was rigged according to tubemonks) not one security firm ( see rich riscorla) noticed a thing, tons of materials go in, none come out with the elevator guys. The towers collapse leaving behind zero evidence of its existence. Yeah ok. That's plausible
Shamrock3939 1 week ago
@Shamrock3939 look up tesla waves. you'll have to look it up and read it on your own. Maybe you should stop attacking the messengers and start looking at the evidence. How can a fireman stand in front of the fire on the 78th floor, radio down to the lobby, and say "we only need two hoses". think about it. If it was as hot as these "debunkers" say (1800 F) could you stand in front of 1800 ? fuck no. start thinking about the evidence and use common sense. You are attacking the wrong people
TAZ4169 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 and what is plausible, are the facts. There was no rubble. experts now agree that thermite would not make 200,000 tons of concrete and steel dissappear. if it had "pancaked" there would be 80 floors stacked up. there were ZERO floors at ground zero. So, Science asks "where did they go" "what could atomize concrete" NOT guys in black in elevator shafts, and whatever bullshit your spewing. look up MARVIN BUSH,Jr's brother. He was towers security. coincedence, I know. smartenup
TAZ4169 6 days ago
@TAZ4169 Noting disapeared. Nothng. Ur oint about marvin Bush proves that ur jadedness has clouded ur abilty to reason. 1st off, teh PAPD was in charge of security of the entire complex. its a FACT. Marvinbush worked for SECURACOM, a company that consulted in security installing some systems. he left the company a year before 9/11. If ur paranoia didctates all u beleive, at least have the facts
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 show me a video, picture or anthing that shows where the debri from the towers went. please. I'm serious. If you don't show me an enormous pile of where all 110 floors went, from both towers and building 7 then don't ever email me again. I was there. the rubble from the towers was not. telling me nothing disappeared on that day tells me you are ill informed and fucking delusional. If I needed shit from some monkey that was those things, I'd listen to our president.
TAZ4169 6 days ago
I was there myself Taz, the debris pile was 16 acres, the footprints of the 3 bldgs was 3 acres. It took a year to remove a debris pile that WAS NOT THERE? please taz. Ur just not thinking.
Tesla waves, really.
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 I'm guessing that taz, along with most truthers, are unaware that each tower had 7 basement levels - thus the debris piles were 7 stories higher than they would have us believe.
TimReed22222 6 days ago
@TAZ4169 I guess u must beleive that massive explosions must have "atomized" everything u claim is missing. The problem is no massive explosions were observed prior to collapse. And I stress, MASSIVE explosions JUST PRIOR to collapse. explosions were heard, b many FF and Police. Not "bombs", Explosions.
U dont like anyone saying that u r implying FDNY and NYPD complicity, but thats exaclty what u r doing.
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@Shamrock3939 what YOU are doing, is not acting like a forensic scientist at a crime scene. which, if you don't want to admit it or not, what ground zero was. You aren't even asking the proper questions, but still doing your kindergarden politics of saying I'm "implying" shit, which I am not. Ask questions. that's all I am doing. questions, ok ? if you have studied US history, you wouldn't be saying the shit you are. Read a book.study pearl harbor. You'll be a lot less stupid. have fun
TAZ4169 6 days ago
Dude, u r implying cuz u r claiming something that is not on any record provided by those entities. Dont run away from it. The govt CANNOT control men working in a debris pile. If the govt is claiming facts not present in evidence, then the FDNY and NYPD are complicit by thier silence.
ask all the questions u want. U dont accept the answers. The FDNY are unambiguous, the NYPD, the PAPD, steel workers, demoltion teams, ARE NOT Agents for the govt. And they say NO CD, NO TESLA WAVES
Shamrock3939 6 days ago
@tube. If I'm so stubbornly wrong why did Swiss re pay 4.5 billion if evidence of insurance fraud exists? Are those adjusters similarly govt shills despite having to pay billions. Are the FDNY shills, NYPD, PAPD, etc etc etc.
Shamrock3939 1 week ago
@taz. "every single time". Really. Maybe u should just get out if it's that bad
The reality is if u believe everything about 9/11 is a lie then u must believe the FDNY (they will tell u all about 7) NYPD, PAPD (in charge of security) city engineers, city steel workers, etc are co conspirators.
No My lai type objectors. No "deep throat". It's so stupid to think that a massive operation required for could ever get off the ground.
Shamrock3939 1 week ago
@Shamrock3939 really. Well first off, I take offense to telliing me to "get out". fuck you. you get out. The federal govt. IS NOT the country. I am a disabled war vet. so fuck you again. AND what you are failing to acknowledge is mhy statement that "the gov't lies to us on every major issue" is one that is true. THEY have admitted to lying on every major topic. which means YOU haven't read enough. Get some more books. Your US history is weak This is just too big for you to understand
TAZ4169 6 days ago
complete bullshit. this bullshit theory does not address nearly 1000 feet of resistance. They feel too quickly and too uniformly to be a haphazard jet fuel fire. fucking retards. maybe it wasn't demolition people. Check out Scalar waves (tesla waves) and I guess the easter bunny took out building 7. wow, the bunker for the mayor, the FBI, CIA, NSA and everyone else was pretty weak a few little fires, and "bang" gone ! where is the rubble? how come the floors didn't pancake on the bottom ?
TAZ4169 1 week ago
Bob ur so polluted with hate for the govt no amount of investigation will do. Everyone who accepts terrorists were the culprits must be govt shills according to u. So why bother u continue with the roid rage rhetoric and verbally assault everyone with common sense
The plausibility of an inside job makes it a non starter. ZERO evidence of CD makes it a non starter. Claiming all the engineering firms who worked up the model are shills is a non starter
Shamrock3939 1 week ago
@Shamrock3939 just like your brain. a nonstarter. because someone accepts the FACT that the government lies to us on every single occasion, without exception, means they love the country enough to care. You have sold your soul. cheap.
TAZ4169 1 week ago
@TAZ4169 What you have to accept is people like shamrock are debunkers and their ego goes before them. Even if they have doubts themselves they will NEVER admit it. They cannot be seen to be wrong on anything and will never admit to having got it wrong. God help his wife!
tubemonks 1 week ago
@tubemonks AND they ignore History. One must study the last 100 years to understand what is going on. This is EXACTLY the same as pearl harbor. And when the fed gov't actually ADMITS they have lied, then no one believes them. It's amazing. I'm just sick of people saying bionically retarded shit like "the whole NYPD would have had to been in on it" which means they haven't read enough to understand the big picture.YOU do not need the numbers to cover this up like you would think. MARVIN BUSH
TAZ4169 6 days ago
@bob. The vertical columns failed because of the sagging, HORIZONTAL floor joists which sagged due to the heat and pulled the outer columns inward.
And don't call NIST, call the engineering firms that constructed the document. Call the city steel workers union, call the FDNY, NYPD, PAPD etc.
Shamrock3939 1 week ago
@joetufano719
Watch this video, this is part 1. watch part 1 to 4. then you go back to your theory and let me know.
gmatsue84 1 week ago
What happened to the Concrete/steel lift shafts? They disintegrated into dust - If the building frame collapsed then the lift shaft / central column would be standing or at least it would have come down in large pieces - not dust
tubemonks 1 week ago
@tubemonks "If the building frame collapsed then the lift shaft / central column would be standing or at least it would have come down in large pieces - not dust"
Just curious. Is this the opinion of some expert on building collapse - or yours?
TimReed22222 1 week ago
@TimReed22222 I don't need someone elses opinion. I am an engineer and know about metal and tesile strength. I'm not some novice. In my opinion it's impossible that pre- stressed, reinforced concrete turns into dust.
tubemonks 1 week ago
@tubemonks Well if you're an engineer, have you ever done the calculation on how much energy was released by each tower's collapse? I have - and the figure is staggering! Run the numbers, then come back & explain why that isn't enough to dustify some concrete.
TimReed22222 1 week ago
@TimReed22222
"and the figure is staggering'
post it TIMMY!!!
Gravity, which is the ONLY energy force allowed in the official story, CANNOT push material sideways...it can arc out as it falls, but it CANNOT project with force. gravity is simply not that robust a source. Neither Tower shows any of the expected actions of a collapse, and ALL of the actions of vast energy being expended, not only to shred the Towers, but to cause dustification as well. Gravity cannot act like this.
hgfbob 1 week ago
@TimReed22222
'Run the numbers'
'OMG! FIFTY KAGILLIONJIGAGAGAWATTTTZZZZ OF ENERGY!@ NOTHING CAN WITHSTAND THAT!##!#!!!'
lol...are your numbers something like that TIMMY?
provide a link to some engineering report of this supposed gravitational collapse that contains the mass distribution information to show how it got around the conservation of momentum to come down so fast....while at the SAME TIME, turning the concrete to DUST
YOU CLAIM you have it....so POST IT ASSWIPE!!!
hgfbob 1 week ago
@hgfbob Well, Bob, if you really care - and I know that you do!! - I come up with between 700-800 billion joules - or the equivalent of just under 200 tons of TNT.
TimReed22222 1 week ago
@TimReed22222 "I came upwith 700-800 billion joules HA ha Ha. No you didn't, you read it somewhere and re-gurgitated it, How old are you? 18, 20?
tubemonks 1 week ago
@tubemonks Seriously? Ever take a physics class? mgh? Helloo?????
The question was: Can you calculate the potential energy locked up in each tower. I've given you the formula, with a little digging you can work out the rest!
TimReed22222 1 week ago
@TimReed22222 It doesn't work like that! The potential energy of a body held a certain distance from the ground - you can, but that calculation won't work with a building. There are so many other factors to take into consideration. You really don't know what you are talking about!
tubemonks 1 week ago
@tubemonks "It doesn't work like that ... that calculation won't work with a building."
Ah, but it does! There's a shortcut you're missing: If you can make an educated guess as to where the center of mass is - pretty close to the physical center, half way up, is a reasonable estimate - you can treat it as a point mass & use ½ the tower's height for h. Yes, it's legit, calculus proves it.
And of course, a real engineer would know that.
TimReed22222 1 week ago
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tubemonks 1 week ago
@TimReed22222 You are saying that the centre floor of the building was completely blown away (evenly, at every support at the same time) and the top of the towers then dropped down onto the lower portion of the building? You haven't factored in resistance of the lower floors have you? They came down in freefall, because all the resistance of these floors was taken away. That was acheived is by demolishing the lower floors as it went - CD. You really are a plonker!
tubemonks 1 week ago
@tubemonks Dude, the towers did NOT come down in freefall; not even close! That's a myth.
TimReed22222 1 week ago
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hgfbob 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TimReed22222
'Dude, the towers did NOT come down in freefall; not even close! That's a myth. "
well we all know now that TIMMY is a fuck n LIAR!!!
for INVESTIGATION found that WTC 7, when the kink forms at 1.75 seconds INTO the collapse, we have MEASURED symmetrical unified descent EQUAL to a bowling ball FALLING THROUGH AIR....however there is NO FIRE to affect the perimeter support the facade is attached to to ALLOW this simultaneous collapse...so what did TIMMY!!!!
hgfbob 1 week ago
@TimReed22222 Rubbish!!! It's on video. Amazing you'll even deny what you can see with your own eyes. That says a lot!
tubemonks 1 week ago
@tubemonks "Rubbish!!! It's on video."
Oh? And what video would that be?
Tell you what: You show me a video of the towers coming down in free-fall time, and I'll show you MANY which show them taking LONGER.
Deal?
TimReed22222 1 week ago
@TimReed22222 How can I show you another version of the collapses there is only ONE? You would still say it wasn't freefall and I will say it was, so what's the point? We've all seen the same ones. The fact that you've seen them come down should be enough to make you question the virtual zero resistance.If you don't see that, then I might as well be talking to a brick wall
tubemonks 1 week ago
@tubemonks Stop beating around the bush! You said there was video showing the towers coming down in free fall. Well?? Where is it?
I can't say for sure we've seen the same ones; all I can tell you is that the videos I'VE seen clearly show the towers coming down in times far LONGER than free fall.
Here's one: watch?v=ESaIEVxLnK4 <-- time it yourself! That's at least 20 seconds, MORE THAN TWICE THE TIME OF FREE FALL!
TimReed22222 1 week ago
@TimReed22222 Yep, Near enough freefall. A bit longer but appears about the same as a CD job. As I said - No point really.
tubemonks 6 days ago
@tubemonks Near enough freefall? A bit longer but about the same as CD? Really? Would you like to reconsider your answer?
Free-fall time from 1360': 9.2s
Time for north tower to collapse: at least 20s
Ratio: 218% or MORE THAN TWICE AS LONG AS FREEFALL.
If that's your idea of "near enough" I sure hope the hell my life never depends on something YOU designed!
TimReed22222 6 days ago
@TimReed22222 so they fell in a different dimension ? How can something that can be verified be a myth ? stop attacking the people looking for the truth, and learn how to be an investigator. they did not have ANY resisitance on the way down. ZERO. to believe the 9 11 commission is to be clinically insane.
TAZ4169 6 days ago
Comment removed
TimReed22222 6 days ago
@TAZ4169 "so they fell in a different dimension ?"
? WTF are you talking about?
If the towers fell in longer than free-fall time, BY DEFINITION there was resistance. Period.
TimReed22222 6 days ago
@TimReed22222 Some concrete to dust yes, but not all. What are you a mathematician? have a Phd in Physics? No, I think you are a bullshitter! No I couldn't do the maths and neither can you - Grow up.
tubemonks 1 week ago
@tubemonks I've done the math; see my post to bob below. And only high-school level physics is required to do it!
So thank you for admitting that you don't even have a high-school level of understanding of physics - like most truthers.
TimReed22222 1 week ago
@tubemonks I mean, seriously! You blunder in here claiming to be an engineer, and you can't even do a basic potential energy calculation???
I think perhaps it is YOU who are the bullshitter.
TimReed22222 1 week ago
@TimReed22222
"and you can't even do a basic potential energy calculation'
lol.....you can't even point to the WTC steel that ALLOWED the collapse to occur...
"no core column examined showed temp. above 250C" NIST 1-3 p.95,101,132
what failed ALL remaining 240 columns SIMULTANEOUSLY, as WE SEE when that top tips?
If those 47 columns don't fail simultaneously, that upper mass doesn't move as 'one'. Simple. Try looking at the WTC blueprints.
how are your joules???
hgfbob 1 week ago
@TimReed22222 Don't talk crap! High school level physics to understand the collapse of WTC 1&2!!!! I sure my qualifications are superior to yours, but no I can't do the maths for the collapse of two skyscrapers, and as I said neither can you. Potential energy calculations that won't tell you anything. You need to take into account the resistance of the floors below as well - What crap you talk!
tubemonks 1 week ago