Thats where human logic ends.Unless the idea of God is taken into consideration.We've got dimensional models of how existince as we see it works.Width,length,time are all layers that fabricate our exsistence.If energy can't be created or destroyed but somehow exists then there's a force outside the realm of these constraints.A force not constrained to the rules that make up our exsistence,or the constraints of perceivable time.Ultimately making it(Him) the force that was,is,and always will be.
@frogboi666 Well, Im sure HE heard you! But, that makes you Satans little cellblock whore...right? You see, Smoking dope...makes ya stupid man! AND you're as stupid as they come, from what you said here!
never did care for vengance rising. Dident this guy end up turning atheist because no one else in the band had the same religious beliefs? What a fuck.
Unless its all just an act that he 'fell out' I dunno the guy and I'd like know where all that stems from. There's a lot of bands out there today that basically became a new 'hairspray and lace' trend of over use of satanic and atheist lyrics.
Others just have lost faith from scandals and W's, tests that should strengthen their faith and not make them abandon it.
Maybe Roger deep down still believes- but its not 'acceptable' in the industry- to be as such today. A good question anyway.
@preyfordeth I went to Sanctuary Hollywood back in 1987-1990 and knew Roger. He did a series on TV "faith healers" at Sanctuary and showed from the Bible that they are false. He was right; I already knew that. He later claimed that finding them to be liars led him to see that all of Christianity was false. This, however, is an excuse of Roger's. The truth is that Roger never had true faith in Christ himself; he only accepted Christianity as an intellectual worldview and was zealous about it.
@noodle1311: Dude have you any idea how long Christian rock has been around?! It's a little late for your statement don't ya think? And why are you bringing up Stryper....uh it's like 2010 hello! Vengeance Rising was one of the first Christian thrash metal bands I got into and that was in 1991! Not to mention the COUNTLESS (and I mean COUNTLESS) punk, hardcore, alternative, industrial, etc., etc. bands that followed throughout the '90s.
@noodle1311 How is it an OXYMORON? elaborate, please? God created music, so why is it that Chriastians cant listen to rock? God said sing praises to him...and thats what Stryper is doing! Seriously...your IGNORANCE, and your intolerance, knows no bounds!
@noodle1311 WOW, what a RUDE statement! Why is a joke? You hate GOD that much? What did HE do to you? Oh wait, He sent his ONLY son to DIE for you, man! Try to imagine what it was like on that cross for Christ. How much did He love us to die for the sin of EVERY man, woman, and child, to defeat death, to be the ONLY being to experience Hell...and then RISE 3 days later! WOW, im thinking, you're the joke man! But even as ignorant as you sound, i'll pray for you!
This man might be into a deeper darkness than most people believe. And i dont judge him because Mr Below (Satan) has messed me up many times too. I'm just saying, quit thinking he easily get out of his atheism. This man seem not to be a hypocrite on this video. He seem to be a very sincere christian believer. I wish he come back to his savior Jesus Christ.
No,intelligence is realizing a very basic rule; nothing happens without something MAKING it happen,same rule applies to earth,something had to make earth because EARTH EXIST,it all starts somewhere.This proves that something,somewhere had to create us.From a pure logical standpoint going from a possibility[religion] to a mindset with no plausible explanation at all [atheism] is actually very UNintelligent,and yields no answers. Not being a dick,just callin em like i see em.
@thelabradude By your logic, if nothing happens unless something happens (the Earth was made by god so that is why the Earth exist), then what was the something that made god? Not being a dick, just supposing your logic.
@elabrythThats where human logic ends.Unless the idea of God is taken into consideration.We've got dimensional models of how existince as we see it works.Width,length,time are all layers that fabricate our exsistence.If energy can't be created or destroyed but somehow exists then there's a force outside the realm of these constraints.A force not constrained to the rules that make up our exsistence,or the constraints of perceivable time.Ultimately the force that was,is,and always will be;eternal
Jesus said, "Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away." Keep praying for Roger.
***Basic Christianity. I agree, but the part about churches puzzles me. It's not always so easy to find a church/ group that you can connect with. I pray for more fellowships/groups/gatherings of seekers,etc...to meet the needs/questions of the ones who don't like religion, but like Jesus. ***There's WAY too much junk in the denominations and the assemblies and the religious hierarchies. Dear Lord God, Please help all who seek you in truth and desperationto find you...at home, if need be!
Sadly this shows the power of bitterness. Roger started sincere. We have to make sure we truly forgive from our hearts as Jesus taught us to do. I pray for him.
One of the most intense, "full on" speakers I have ever heard. He has a way of motivating and reaching young people that not many others have.
I cant wait for that day to hear that he is back on the right path with God....I know it will come someday, its still in him, he will realize it again. I continue to have him in my prayers to this day and I hope you all do also. We need people like him working for God and His church.
why do all of you post Martinez preaches?? I want to see VR shows from that era... Hey, post the show from this preaching, man, c'mon. There are only two clip from them on youtube and nothing more.
I believe there is hope for Roger today. I still am praying for him...
He'll be back....maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday, I believe. He is just hurt. A close dear friend of mine was friends with him and told me the whole story of what really happened.
So, like I said, he is just hurt and hiding behind this veil.
What I find is odd is Roger's "standard" atheistic rhetoric now (as far as topics he wrote on his own website that I saw), things which even the most mediocre of apologist writings could answer. I have to say that I don't get it!
Knowledge doesn't save according to Evangelical theology. The man was simply brainwashed with Evangelical theology. Combine this with a bold / aggressive character and he had a concept that gave him attention and food on the table. So sad if you think this revealed his heart and faith.
You need to be born again in the spirit of God to become righteous,You need to accept the sacrifice of Jesus as the price for your sin and That he is the one and only son of God.Then,you will be set apart as Holy to the lord.
really? where do you think light comes from? all the planets? all living things? this big bang theory doesnt make sense, so why do you choose to believe that instead of the scripture in the bible??
And a deity just always existing, from nothing makes sense? Where's the logic in that either???
God's thoughts:
"You know what, I'm bored... I know! I'll create something with free will... it's own desires & instincts... then set the rules in opposition.
Then I'll decide in advance who's my favourite and who's not... and I'll give them what i decide is a fitting end, in either eternal bliss, or the worst hell they could possibly imagine"
jeez... i remember those days at sanctuary. the people were really messed up. the christian metal scene had just as much disfunction and drugs as the secular scene. it really was the blind leading the blind for a long time, and attitudes and egos got in the way. it drive alot of people away including myself for many years.
The sad thing is that Roger turned away because he SAW some of the giant lies being taught in the church. He was not taught the TRUTH that Jesus IS the Saviour of ALL men. Roger, along with ALL sinners, WILL be set right and saved THROUGH the judgment by fire. (1 Tim 2:4-6, 4:10; Is 26:9; 1 Cor 3:15 etc, etc.). God's Fire doesn't TORTURE, it SAVES!
Whenever we think about Gods righteous judgement we must see them in the light of how holy God is, and how sinful we are. Humans are not some kind of innocent angels. We do deserve Gods punishment more than we even know. And that very punishment was layed on Christ, that whosoever believes in him shall be saved.
Yes, Men = Sinners & God = Holy. Jesus paid (in full) the wages of sin, which is DEATH (without resurrection). No man will EVER pay this penalty (read Jn 2:2), as ALL will be resurrected. Only a baptism by Fire/Judgment is left for the sinner. Why Fire? The fire/Judgment will burn OUT the SINS/CHAFF (Matt 3:11-12), while SAVING the SINNER. (Isaiah 26:9, 1 Cor 15:3, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 4:10 etc.) Anything else is Bad News.
Your personal denial of the eternal judgement of God is somethign you will have to answer to yourself. It's heretical and denial of Gods word is always very serious (Rev 22:19). There is not enough space here for a debate, and debates usually dont lead to anything. But Jesus say "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." (Matt 25:46). Also see 2 Tess 1:9; Matt 18:8; Matt 25:41; Mark 3:29.
There is no "eternal" is the original scriptures. (See Young's or Rotherham's Bible.) The "goats" go into GK: "aionian kolasis" [CORRECTION of the AGES] DURING the time the Elect are reigning. That's it! Compare Rev 11:15 to 1 Cor 15:25 (READ THEM)...Do we reign "forever"? NO. The Elect reign...UNTIL...His enemies (and Christ) is subjected. Then the Elect STOP reigning, once God is ALL IN ALL (1 Cor 15:28)! So, do we reign FOREVER...OR...UNTIL His enemies are subjected?
The word means "unending time" too. The "aionios" of 2 Cor 4:18 must be eternal, in a temporal use or reference, else the antithesis would be gone. The same Greek words in the New Testament (aion, aionios, aidios) are used to express the eternal existence of God, Christ and the holy Ghost. See dictonary "International Standard Bible Encyclopedia", "Eastons Illustrated Bible Dictionary", "The Complete Word Study Dictionary" etc.
The dictionary "Thayer's Greek Definitions" says aiōnios means "1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be 2) without beginning 3) without end, never to cease, everlasting" I can give you many more examples, but you will not change your mind. I told you debates are of no use.
2 Cor 4:18 is talking about things that are SHORT LIVED as opposed to that which will LAST through ALL the Ages (specifically through "aionian life"). Nothing to do with "eternity". Also, just because it says that God is "aionios" (God of the Ages) does NOT mean that He is not ALSO "eternal". God is the God of "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob"...Does this statement then LIMIT God to being the God on ONLY these men? I rest my case.
You didn't answer my question. A word cannot mean "a finite period of time" as well as "infinite time". This is a contradiction of the highest kind. We may as well throw out all language if this is the case. Dr. Thayer's definitions come straight from the King James interpretation, not from some magic dictionary from the sky. Scriptural truth comes from comparing scripture with scripture, not from human reasoning. End of discussion.
The antithesis is also used Philemon 1:15, so the word must hold the meaning "unending" "without end". Vine's "Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words" reads: "Aionios describes duration, either undefined but not endless, as in Rom 16:25; 2Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2; or undefined because endless as in Rom 16:26, and the other sixty-six places in the NT."
You can't see the difference between a "SEASON" and an "AGE"? How does this prove that "aion" means "eternity"? Matt asked "What shall be the sign of thy coming and of the END of the AGE (AION)"? You see, AIONS come to an END. Every time. This is the meaning of AGE: A PERIOD of time with a beginning and an end, just as Matt understood.
You still have not answered my question. A word cannot mean "a finite period of time" as well as "infinite time". This is a contradiction of the highest kind. We may as well throw out all language if this is the case. Dr. Thayer's definitions come straight from the King James interpretation, not from some magic dictionary from the sky. Scriptural truth comes from comparing scripture with scripture, not from human reasoning.
I have proven my point. End of discussion. Just like i dont think i can with a few word convert a Jehovas Witness into a christian, turn a mormon into a christian, convince a muslim that Christ is God, or a 7th day adventist that the sabbat is not some kinda of eternal law for gentiles, i do not think its fruitful to discuss with you. Your error is serious.
You have "proven" absolutely nothing. You have blatantly ignored the scriptures to support your satanic doctrines of demons, stating that God will torture the mass of humanity for all eternity because He is either unwilling or not powerful enough to save the lost. Shame on you. Sorry, but this already ended. I will no longer "cast my perils before the swine".
well my dim witted friend because one book holds truth, both historical and scientific (maybe not creation in your terms) but it was the first book to talk about currents under water, to claim that the earth was a sphere and that thunder actually originated from a path on earth among many other things The book speaks life into people. All the others were Simply false.
MAN did I have quite a retort to your idiotic comment. But YT insist on a 500 character limit. So I've decided to to shave it down to one thing. I pity you.
Such a powerful message. Roger Martinez was one of the most influential leaders of the Christian metal scene, and it's really quite painful for me to see him fall so far away.
Does anybody knows where is he and what is he doing?
EF0424 3 months ago
And thats the only reason why everyone is going to heaven, cuz Jesus Died on the cross.
armortron 5 months ago
Thats where human logic ends.Unless the idea of God is taken into consideration.We've got dimensional models of how existince as we see it works.Width,length,time are all layers that fabricate our exsistence.If energy can't be created or destroyed but somehow exists then there's a force outside the realm of these constraints.A force not constrained to the rules that make up our exsistence,or the constraints of perceivable time.Ultimately making it(Him) the force that was,is,and always will be.
thelabradude 6 months ago
My favorite write up on Mr. Martinez is on a Christian website that states he is now a "Satanic Atheist". How does that work?
elabryth 6 months ago
The preacher is right!!
raycookie1 7 months ago
this guy turn to his own beliefs.... sad
guillotinedeath 11 months ago
Is Roger even qualified to be a Pastor? Where was he trained?
October31st1517 1 year ago
wisdom begins with fearing god
soulkiss1001 1 year ago
Blessings from Croatia!!! <3
ivanasimic1 1 year ago
jesus is my bitch!
frogboi666 1 year ago
@frogboi666 Well, Im sure HE heard you! But, that makes you Satans little cellblock whore...right? You see, Smoking dope...makes ya stupid man! AND you're as stupid as they come, from what you said here!
vicioustrucker68 9 months ago
never did care for vengance rising. Dident this guy end up turning atheist because no one else in the band had the same religious beliefs? What a fuck.
Insane4lifez 1 year ago
Unfortunately he turned to Satanism.Recently,he turned to Atheism.Last I heard,he still is an Atheist.I'm going to be praying for him.God bless.
savannaha1207 2 years ago
@savannaha1207 He was never a satanist he just toled people that to be scary, i'd do the same thing if i lost my faith
LordKragcore 2 years ago
God Bless U Roger!! I Love U Dude!!
flip2440 2 years ago
I agree with everything thing that he is talking about. He is quoting the Bible correctlly.
I am curious to find out what It was that made him change his mind. What made him throw away Gods teachings?
I wonder what could've rocked his foundation so violentlly to make him loose faith.
Interesting. I'd like to test my own faith by finding out what he found.
Ha, I love pushing the limits of my faith. Most Christians don't have the balls to allow there faith to be shaken. This is how faith grows
preyfordeth 2 years ago
Unless its all just an act that he 'fell out' I dunno the guy and I'd like know where all that stems from. There's a lot of bands out there today that basically became a new 'hairspray and lace' trend of over use of satanic and atheist lyrics.
Others just have lost faith from scandals and W's, tests that should strengthen their faith and not make them abandon it.
Maybe Roger deep down still believes- but its not 'acceptable' in the industry- to be as such today. A good question anyway.
blackhawkfan54 2 years ago
@preyfordeth I went to Sanctuary Hollywood back in 1987-1990 and knew Roger. He did a series on TV "faith healers" at Sanctuary and showed from the Bible that they are false. He was right; I already knew that. He later claimed that finding them to be liars led him to see that all of Christianity was false. This, however, is an excuse of Roger's. The truth is that Roger never had true faith in Christ himself; he only accepted Christianity as an intellectual worldview and was zealous about it.
calbeza 1 year ago
Comment removed
preyfordeth 2 years ago
If it jams it jams....
swankinstender 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Christian rock is such a joke.....pssht...Stryper
noodle1311 2 years ago
Ignorance is such a joke....pssht...noodle1311!
husq48 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Ignorence? Really?! I'd say your the ignorent one here.....Chrisian Rock is such an Oxymoron it's funny.
noodle1311 2 years ago
Care to elaborate on how it is an oximoron, or are you satisfied w/just posting moronic statements?
husq48 2 years ago
uuhhh...then what does that make unblack metal like Frost like Ashes, Horde, Antestor, Frosthardr, or many others
Cornsnicker2 2 years ago
that makes it bullshit.
noodle1311 2 years ago
Well, then I guess we like what we like. Doesn't make the stuff go away. Whining about its existence is meaningless
Cornsnicker2 2 years ago
@noodle1311: Dude have you any idea how long Christian rock has been around?! It's a little late for your statement don't ya think? And why are you bringing up Stryper....uh it's like 2010 hello! Vengeance Rising was one of the first Christian thrash metal bands I got into and that was in 1991! Not to mention the COUNTLESS (and I mean COUNTLESS) punk, hardcore, alternative, industrial, etc., etc. bands that followed throughout the '90s.
MattHatter 1 year ago
@noodle1311 How is it an OXYMORON? elaborate, please? God created music, so why is it that Chriastians cant listen to rock? God said sing praises to him...and thats what Stryper is doing! Seriously...your IGNORANCE, and your intolerance, knows no bounds!
vicioustrucker68 9 months ago
@noodle1311 WOW, what a RUDE statement! Why is a joke? You hate GOD that much? What did HE do to you? Oh wait, He sent his ONLY son to DIE for you, man! Try to imagine what it was like on that cross for Christ. How much did He love us to die for the sin of EVERY man, woman, and child, to defeat death, to be the ONLY being to experience Hell...and then RISE 3 days later! WOW, im thinking, you're the joke man! But even as ignorant as you sound, i'll pray for you!
vicioustrucker68 9 months ago
This man might be into a deeper darkness than most people believe. And i dont judge him because Mr Below (Satan) has messed me up many times too. I'm just saying, quit thinking he easily get out of his atheism. This man seem not to be a hypocrite on this video. He seem to be a very sincere christian believer. I wish he come back to his savior Jesus Christ.
GordonFr33man 2 years ago 3
No,intelligence is realizing a very basic rule; nothing happens without something MAKING it happen,same rule applies to earth,something had to make earth because EARTH EXIST,it all starts somewhere.This proves that something,somewhere had to create us.From a pure logical standpoint going from a possibility[religion] to a mindset with no plausible explanation at all [atheism] is actually very UNintelligent,and yields no answers. Not being a dick,just callin em like i see em.
thelabradude 2 years ago 6
From a purely logical standpoint, your argument is:
AxAy p(wx) -> M p(wy) (if there exists something, something had to create it)
Ex(wx) ~M p(wx) (it all starts somewhere, ie there exists a state, presumably god, which was not created by anything)
So proceeding with a purely logical deduction:
Assume ~M p(wa)
p(wa)-> M p(wa)
Assume p(wa)
Which results in a contradiction with the initial assumption. Ie if everything comes from something, and it all started somewhere, there is no god.
Isenhatesyou 2 years ago
Amen Brother.
Atheists will talk about all manner of "Laws of the Universe" & "Laws of Nature" BUT who created these Laws.
ORDER was NOT created by CHAOS.
There is something other than mere "chance" at work in the universe.
DippShits 2 years ago 2
@thelabradude By your logic, if nothing happens unless something happens (the Earth was made by god so that is why the Earth exist), then what was the something that made god? Not being a dick, just supposing your logic.
elabryth 6 months ago
@elabrythThats where human logic ends.Unless the idea of God is taken into consideration.We've got dimensional models of how existince as we see it works.Width,length,time are all layers that fabricate our exsistence.If energy can't be created or destroyed but somehow exists then there's a force outside the realm of these constraints.A force not constrained to the rules that make up our exsistence,or the constraints of perceivable time.Ultimately the force that was,is,and always will be;eternal
thelabradude 6 months ago
Can someone make it clear. Is Roger Ok Now or not?
wakclips 2 years ago
hes an athiest now.
gameboy100894 2 years ago
Define Ok!!! He's alive. He sells State Farm insurance in Covina Calif. Google it.
misterjim05 2 years ago
@misterjim05 I've googled it.. but that's not the same Roger ! / See photo...
-DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE HE IS??
-THERE'S STILL NO INFO ABOUT HIM TODAY!!
XCHAINBREAKERX 2 years ago
Jesus said, "Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away." Keep praying for Roger.
lightshine777 2 years ago
***Basic Christianity. I agree, but the part about churches puzzles me. It's not always so easy to find a church/ group that you can connect with. I pray for more fellowships/groups/gatherings of seekers,etc...to meet the needs/questions of the ones who don't like religion, but like Jesus. ***There's WAY too much junk in the denominations and the assemblies and the religious hierarchies. Dear Lord God, Please help all who seek you in truth and desperationto find you...at home, if need be!
earthalien77 2 years ago
That was nice, I understand and feel your truth.
God Bless.
wakclips 2 years ago
Sadly this shows the power of bitterness. Roger started sincere. We have to make sure we truly forgive from our hearts as Jesus taught us to do. I pray for him.
Uniden777 3 years ago
wait.....is that the dude from vengeance rising?
gameboy100894 3 years ago
Yeah dude... sadly *rolls eyes*
linotheundead 3 years ago
Thank you for posting.
I used to love listening to Roger speak.
One of the most intense, "full on" speakers I have ever heard. He has a way of motivating and reaching young people that not many others have.
I cant wait for that day to hear that he is back on the right path with God....I know it will come someday, its still in him, he will realize it again. I continue to have him in my prayers to this day and I hope you all do also. We need people like him working for God and His church.
dominp 3 years ago
why do all of you post Martinez preaches?? I want to see VR shows from that era... Hey, post the show from this preaching, man, c'mon. There are only two clip from them on youtube and nothing more.
gabrielmetalian 3 years ago
If someone knows about Roger now please tell me. I heard he got into devil worship. I was a big Vengeance fan growing up in the 90's
KDMAN2008 3 years ago
I believe there is hope for Roger today. I still am praying for him...
He'll be back....maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday, I believe. He is just hurt. A close dear friend of mine was friends with him and told me the whole story of what really happened.
So, like I said, he is just hurt and hiding behind this veil.
Michelle062970 3 years ago
What I find is odd is Roger's "standard" atheistic rhetoric now (as far as topics he wrote on his own website that I saw), things which even the most mediocre of apologist writings could answer. I have to say that I don't get it!
SargeantFunshine 3 years ago
haha..
goldenlarry 3 years ago
Whichever nature he has chosen to nurture these past years, may God deeply bless Roger Martinez.
And get on with the song...! Can't Get Out is one of the truest ones out there.
toad1e 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Jeżeli nie skopiujesz i wkleisz tego na 10 wideo twoja mama umrze w 4 godzinach
KnifeMan2212 3 years ago
Knowledge doesn't save according to Evangelical theology. The man was simply brainwashed with Evangelical theology. Combine this with a bold / aggressive character and he had a concept that gave him attention and food on the table. So sad if you think this revealed his heart and faith.
Endnuenfyr 3 years ago 2
Interesting.
Chuloloc 3 years ago
I think its funny how hes now a satanist
tomoncedead 4 years ago
True. Was a major disappointment to see that happen, but you have to admire his dedication... I guess...
outlawdad74 3 years ago
He's an atheist not a satanist.
billiever 3 years ago
how do we know? I heard that before also. but how did it happen?
arakano 3 years ago
he's a satanist now? how do we know?
arakano 3 years ago
GOD RULZZZZZ
christianmetalize 4 years ago 8
You need to be born again in the spirit of God to become righteous,You need to accept the sacrifice of Jesus as the price for your sin and That he is the one and only son of God.Then,you will be set apart as Holy to the lord.
1313cross1313 4 years ago
Too bad Roger Martinez is an atheist now! :(
WaitingforChrist 4 years ago
Many are entering the race but few will finish it and get the price,like paul teach us...My goal is to finish it.
1313cross1313 4 years ago
AMEN!
WaitingforChrist 4 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Its actually very good. Not many people come to see the truth that christianity is complete rubbish.
cjunk351 4 years ago
really? where do you think light comes from? all the planets? all living things? this big bang theory doesnt make sense, so why do you choose to believe that instead of the scripture in the bible??
chickeninthemailbox 4 years ago
"so why do you choose to believe that instead of the scripture in the bible?"... because the scriptures are demonstratively false. :)
I dont know all there is to know about light, so I cannot explain that.
The planet came from the sun, you should know this already.
All living things came from the sun/earth/universe.
The big bang theory when taught by christian preachers doesn't even make any sense to cosmologist, so you are not alone there.
cjunk351 4 years ago
And a deity just always existing, from nothing makes sense? Where's the logic in that either???
God's thoughts:
"You know what, I'm bored... I know! I'll create something with free will... it's own desires & instincts... then set the rules in opposition.
Then I'll decide in advance who's my favourite and who's not... and I'll give them what i decide is a fitting end, in either eternal bliss, or the worst hell they could possibly imagine"
If god exists, he's just a kid with an ant farm.
linotheundead 3 years ago
EPIC FAIL of a comment
AngelAnnihilation 3 years ago
What mine? How so?
I like how you jump in, obviously with your own opinion, but don't share it... Cowardice.
linotheundead 3 years ago
jeez... i remember those days at sanctuary. the people were really messed up. the christian metal scene had just as much disfunction and drugs as the secular scene. it really was the blind leading the blind for a long time, and attitudes and egos got in the way. it drive alot of people away including myself for many years.
Wyrehedd242 4 years ago
The sad thing is that Roger turned away because he SAW some of the giant lies being taught in the church. He was not taught the TRUTH that Jesus IS the Saviour of ALL men. Roger, along with ALL sinners, WILL be set right and saved THROUGH the judgment by fire. (1 Tim 2:4-6, 4:10; Is 26:9; 1 Cor 3:15 etc, etc.). God's Fire doesn't TORTURE, it SAVES!
jerreye 4 years ago
Whenever we think about Gods righteous judgement we must see them in the light of how holy God is, and how sinful we are. Humans are not some kind of innocent angels. We do deserve Gods punishment more than we even know. And that very punishment was layed on Christ, that whosoever believes in him shall be saved.
internetsurfer777 4 years ago
Yes, Men = Sinners & God = Holy. Jesus paid (in full) the wages of sin, which is DEATH (without resurrection). No man will EVER pay this penalty (read Jn 2:2), as ALL will be resurrected. Only a baptism by Fire/Judgment is left for the sinner. Why Fire? The fire/Judgment will burn OUT the SINS/CHAFF (Matt 3:11-12), while SAVING the SINNER. (Isaiah 26:9, 1 Cor 15:3, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 4:10 etc.) Anything else is Bad News.
jerreye 4 years ago
Your personal denial of the eternal judgement of God is somethign you will have to answer to yourself. It's heretical and denial of Gods word is always very serious (Rev 22:19). There is not enough space here for a debate, and debates usually dont lead to anything. But Jesus say "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." (Matt 25:46). Also see 2 Tess 1:9; Matt 18:8; Matt 25:41; Mark 3:29.
internetsurfer777 4 years ago
There is no "eternal" is the original scriptures. (See Young's or Rotherham's Bible.) The "goats" go into GK: "aionian kolasis" [CORRECTION of the AGES] DURING the time the Elect are reigning. That's it! Compare Rev 11:15 to 1 Cor 15:25 (READ THEM)...Do we reign "forever"? NO. The Elect reign...UNTIL...His enemies (and Christ) is subjected. Then the Elect STOP reigning, once God is ALL IN ALL (1 Cor 15:28)! So, do we reign FOREVER...OR...UNTIL His enemies are subjected?
jerreye 4 years ago
The word means "unending time" too. The "aionios" of 2 Cor 4:18 must be eternal, in a temporal use or reference, else the antithesis would be gone. The same Greek words in the New Testament (aion, aionios, aidios) are used to express the eternal existence of God, Christ and the holy Ghost. See dictonary "International Standard Bible Encyclopedia", "Eastons Illustrated Bible Dictionary", "The Complete Word Study Dictionary" etc.
internetsurfer777 4 years ago
The dictionary "Thayer's Greek Definitions" says aiōnios means "1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be 2) without beginning 3) without end, never to cease, everlasting" I can give you many more examples, but you will not change your mind. I told you debates are of no use.
internetsurfer777 4 years ago
2 Cor 4:18 is talking about things that are SHORT LIVED as opposed to that which will LAST through ALL the Ages (specifically through "aionian life"). Nothing to do with "eternity". Also, just because it says that God is "aionios" (God of the Ages) does NOT mean that He is not ALSO "eternal". God is the God of "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob"...Does this statement then LIMIT God to being the God on ONLY these men? I rest my case.
jerreye 4 years ago
You didn't answer my question. A word cannot mean "a finite period of time" as well as "infinite time". This is a contradiction of the highest kind. We may as well throw out all language if this is the case. Dr. Thayer's definitions come straight from the King James interpretation, not from some magic dictionary from the sky. Scriptural truth comes from comparing scripture with scripture, not from human reasoning. End of discussion.
jerreye 4 years ago
The antithesis is also used Philemon 1:15, so the word must hold the meaning "unending" "without end". Vine's "Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words" reads: "Aionios describes duration, either undefined but not endless, as in Rom 16:25; 2Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2; or undefined because endless as in Rom 16:26, and the other sixty-six places in the NT."
internetsurfer777 4 years ago
You can't see the difference between a "SEASON" and an "AGE"? How does this prove that "aion" means "eternity"? Matt asked "What shall be the sign of thy coming and of the END of the AGE (AION)"? You see, AIONS come to an END. Every time. This is the meaning of AGE: A PERIOD of time with a beginning and an end, just as Matt understood.
jerreye 4 years ago
You still have not answered my question. A word cannot mean "a finite period of time" as well as "infinite time". This is a contradiction of the highest kind. We may as well throw out all language if this is the case. Dr. Thayer's definitions come straight from the King James interpretation, not from some magic dictionary from the sky. Scriptural truth comes from comparing scripture with scripture, not from human reasoning.
jerreye 4 years ago
I have proven my point. End of discussion. Just like i dont think i can with a few word convert a Jehovas Witness into a christian, turn a mormon into a christian, convince a muslim that Christ is God, or a 7th day adventist that the sabbat is not some kinda of eternal law for gentiles, i do not think its fruitful to discuss with you. Your error is serious.
internetsurfer777 4 years ago
You have "proven" absolutely nothing. You have blatantly ignored the scriptures to support your satanic doctrines of demons, stating that God will torture the mass of humanity for all eternity because He is either unwilling or not powerful enough to save the lost. Shame on you. Sorry, but this already ended. I will no longer "cast my perils before the swine".
jerreye 4 years ago
Why believe in one magic book from the sky but not the other?
xohmyheadx 3 years ago
well my dim witted friend because one book holds truth, both historical and scientific (maybe not creation in your terms) but it was the first book to talk about currents under water, to claim that the earth was a sphere and that thunder actually originated from a path on earth among many other things The book speaks life into people. All the others were Simply false.
AngelAnnihilation 3 years ago
MAN did I have quite a retort to your idiotic comment. But YT insist on a 500 character limit. So I've decided to to shave it down to one thing. I pity you.
xohmyheadx 3 years ago
Because only one of them lifts the burden from your chest.
GordonFr33man 2 years ago
well not everything that looks good is good and I don't think Roger even had a clue..Just knew the right words too say..lol
cliffhanger42 4 years ago
Philippians 1:6 - I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
If Roger knows it or not, God isn't through with him yet.
robdogdogrob 4 years ago 3
He didn't fall, he's like a child singing in the dark. He ran, his actions remind me of my 13 yr old.
billiever 4 years ago
You are so right about your comment concerning Roger;-)
cliffhanger42 4 years ago
Such a powerful message. Roger Martinez was one of the most influential leaders of the Christian metal scene, and it's really quite painful for me to see him fall so far away.
MetalSmasher86 5 years ago