Schieffer On Obama Cabinet

[putittogether]

Have you seen some of the old CBS news fottage from like 30 years ago. Classic propaganda. Not very polished and rough around the edges. Today it is much better, slicker, and well thought out. I love looking at propaganda it is so entertaining to see, and how it affects my co-workers opinions in days after their exposure to it.

I just listen to them repeat what they saw on TV, and how their minds are so easily manipulated. Kind of like children really. It is very fun to watch happen.

[bobbytiger]

Richardson and Obama need to share the blame for this one. The investigation into the Governor's dealings are not new.

The post should not have been offered to, or accepted by Richardson.

Now that he is gone, the post should remain vacant.

There is, of course, no need to have the position at all, as all U.S. commerce has been outsourced to China and India.

[y2knoproblem]

Even liberals hate Obama

[jenfan2007]

dream on repug

[dirtyshiksa]

I wonder who's paying this sleazeball to slander OBAMA?

[lidixmang]

Are you being sarcastic? CBS is the flagship network for the Obama administration. This isn't slander in any way. They are taking something completely non-controversial and putting an ounce of spin on it so it looks controversial. In doesn't hurt the Obama administration at all, but they need to appear as if they aren't constantly rubbing his shoulders.

Think of it as playing the devil's advocate.

[dirtyshiksa]

Schieffer is a racist.

[lidixmang]

I wouldn't know about that. CBS loves the Clintons and Hillary is on Obama's staff, and Zbigniew Brzezinski is Obama's handler, so it doesn't make sense for them to spend time trying to be FOX news and bash Obama. But it would make sense for them to dish out a little non-story like this to make it seem they are impartial.

[duhCider]

When the benefit for "social programs" is to further enhance state power, as in Nazi Germany, it is fascism not socialism. You are missing that point.

Socialism's means and ends are to the benefit of the people. Fascism's means and ends are to state power. That is the clear distinction. To call the Nazis socialists is to be dead wrong.

[lidixmang]

How does a socialist economy function? The state owns all capital and rations it out to the people, each according to his need.

Fascism simply hijacks a socialist economy by convincing the people to sacrifice their time/wealth to build up the state.

This is where propaganda and police force come in to brainwash the people and enforce stricter and stricter laws.

This same phenomenon has happened in every socialist government in history. Nazi Germany was the most extreme because the holocaust.

[duhCider]

You're stuck in the minutiae where spin doctors and propagandists lurk.

Fascism: EVERYTHING is for STATE POWER.

Socialism: the benefit of the people is foremost.

The Nazis only had state power in mind. Everything they did was to create/propagate state power, including their economic programs.

[lidixmang]

We obviously have different definitions of terms.

We agree to disagree.

[duhCider]

That's for d@mn sure. I see a lot of comments on youtube calling Nazis socialists when nothing could be further from the truth. They were about as far away from socialism as a political movement can get.

[ianyoutub]

Absolutely right.

[duhCider]

Thank you, ianyoutube. I see you're locked into the struggle as well. As per our friend, I would say even in a so called "free market" or capitalistic economy, the state controls the wealth. As long as the state determines when and how much cuurency to issue, as it does in modern capitalistic economies, it, too, controls the wealth. The only real free trade economy I can envision is bartering, where there is no currency or government agency interfering.

[ianyoutub]

True. A state can totally undermine a currency through inflationary printing of money, for example, thus removing effectively removing wealth from its citizens.

[ianyoutub]

Sorry, but you are not going to redefine terminology so there is no 'agreeing to disagree'. Fascism including Nazism is far right. That has ALWAYS BEEN the case. Nazism is National Socialism, but the emphasis in nazism is on the NATIONAL, not the socialism. As duhCider points out, fascism puts the NATION first, and everything is subservient to that. Socialism puts the social, the PEOPLE first. It's you that needs to put in some more history research. The nazi party = FAR RIGHT.

[lidixmang]

The political spectrum has redefined itself as cultures change.

Nationalism, or statism, is what occurs when an economy is a function of socialism, by definition. The STATE controls the wealth of the economy. There for socialism is statism.

I understand that you want to ignore this and focus merely on the philosophic utopianism of what socialism means for justice and humanity, but from a strictly economic perspective, socialism is nationalism.

[ianyoutub]

Now you are redefining nationalism as well. Where are you getting your information from? You are WRONG from start to finish. You cannot keep redefining terms. Nationalism is NOTHING to do with statism. Nationalism is a movement or culture or ideology that focuses on the NATION. American culture today is highly nationalistic. Saluting the flag, the pledge of allegiance, the reverence for the troops - these are all signs of nationalism. Does that make the US socialist? You are confused.

[lidixmang]

Socialism is an economic system where the majority of capital earned by the working class is confiscated by the State through taxation or other means, being used for the needs of the State and redistributed to the citizenry through welfare, each according to his need.

Yes. The US government is partially socialism, partially corporatism and partially free market capitalism.

We are watching our economy become socialized by the hour with bailouts and 'stimulus' plans.

[quantumcodex]

@lidixmang

You obviously do not adequately understand the concept of capital. Capital is the means of production. Money is not capital.  Working-class people do not earn capital, they are given wages in exchange for labour, and earn money.

[quantumcodex]

@lidixmang

Appropriating public treasury funds to pay private banks is de facto corporate plutocracy, not socialism.

[quantumcodex]

@lidixmang

Hitler's Germany was a fascist government. Fascism is characterized by private and corporate plutocracy, ultra-nationalist imperialism, and violent abrogations of liberty. Hitler's ascendancy was applauded by a preponderance of Germany's wealthy industrial barons, who had enthusiastically adhered to principles of market capitalism for decades. They knew Hitler's desire was not to steal their wealth, but rather to make them richer with lucrative military contracts and slave labour.

[quantumcodex]

@lidixmang

The National Socialist Workers Party, led by Adolf Hitler, employed the concept of socialism to convey ideological support for ordinary people outside the wealthy industrial capitalist class who were so desperately poor and angry, in the wake of the Treaty of Versailles in 1919, that they were willing to vote for a rabidly anti-Communist, racist, homophobic, ultra-nationalistic, imperialist dictator who would by 1945 cause Germany's poverty to deepen into the realm of starvation.

[quantumcodex]

@lidixmang

So Hitler's a socialist now? Absurd. Go and tell that to the sons and daughters of Hitler's prisoners, including Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, and socialists, who were liberated from Auschwitz in 1945 by Communist soldiers of the Soviet Red Army.

[lidixmang]

Okay, let's put it a different way. If Hitler had been a free market capitalist, he would have never gained control of the economy, because it would have been free.

He HAD to socialize the economy in order to control it.

[ianyoutub]

You talk about the political specturm changing, but in fact you don't appreciate the historical contexts you refer to. Hitler was an extreme NATIONALIST. He was not a socialist. He didn't care about economics. He cared about the NATION as an abstract entity. Socialism is about benefitting PEOPLE and using resources to benefit them. Nazism is a form of fascism that is about NATION first and foremost with people used as fodder to do whatever is needed to glorify the nation. They are NOTHING ALIKE.

[lidixmang]

What kind of ECONOMIC system did Hitler use prior to becoming Chancellor?

[quantumcodex]

@lidixmang

Prior to Hitler's election as chancellor in 1933, he did not have any authority to determine Germany's economic policy, so the very premise of your question is absolutely false. Heinrich Bruening was chancellor immediately prior, during a period of increasing parliamentary chaos, and at least ostensibly sought to preserve the democratic Weimar Republic, which obviously Hitler's ultra-nationalist policy later succeeded in destroying.

[quantumcodex]

@lidixmang

Hitler's strategy, at least initially, was to control the economy by controlling the wealthy capitalists, who obviously controlled the means of production. They were like butter in his hands, and most rejoiced when he was appointed chancellor on January 30, 1933. One of a very few notable exceptions to this pattern of political subservience was Junkers, who was opposed to fascism, and was forced to surrender his factory, and to see his capital used to manufacture bombers.

[IntrepidGizmo]

Cmon, is that all you have to say. Obama has shown his true colors by bowing to the extreme left. In one sneaky move he has gutted the CIA and formed a new political agency in line with his stated vision of a national socialism equivalent to the SS. If this does not start ringing alarm bells then I do not know what it is going to take. Obama was hoping no one would notice this quiet little move. Wake up!

[ianyoutub]

Sorry, but you are truly, deeply confused. National socialism and the SS were extreme RIGHT-wing, not extreme left-wing, you moron.

[jamesdaubek]

conservatism is socialism?

[lidixmang]

Wrong. Your high school text books lied to you.

National Socialism is not a conservative movement. It is a SOCIALIST movement, which is inherently 'left-wing'.

Hitler used social programs to appease the Germans after WW1 when their economy was in shambles. The official name for his socialist party is "National Socialist Workers Party".

He socialized the entire government and after an act of terrorism, he convinced the parliament to grant him dictatorial powers.

[duhCider]

National Socialism was a right-wing, militaristic, anti-proletariat, anti-democratic, statist idea from the git-go. The "socialism" part of it was a misnomer to goad and fool working-class Germans who were suffering through the worst inflation and poorest economy modern Europe had seen. It was a state-power movement built around a dictatorial leader. It was tyrannical and fascistic from its inception, shredding civil liberites and making all subserviant to the needs of the state.

[lidixmang]

Of course socialists don't like to be associated with Nazis. Who would?

However you look at it, socialism was the economic strategy Hitler used to build his party.

I guess it is fair to say that national socialism is as left-wing as neo-conservatism is right-wing.

In fact, they are both authoritarian fascist movements that don't honestly represent the moral codes of socialism or capitalism.

[duhCider]

National Socialism was NOT socialism or socialist. It was a ruse, an intentional blurring of terms done by the Nazis to attract a suffering working-class Germany. Socialism has the welfare of the people at its core. National Socialism had/has the welfare of the state at its core. Socialist programs benefit the people directly. National Socialism only had/has state power and the ruling class in mind.

[lidixmang]

Regardless of the 'intended' definition, socialism was the means Hitler used to unite the German people.

I've read the Communist Manifesto and I understand what the essence of socialism is. Obviously Marx never meant for it to be distorted the way Hitler did, combining it with nationalism and fascism.

However, history has shown us that socialism is susceptible to corruption just like any other form of government and it can't be swept under the rug by writing it off as 'right-wing' extremism.

[duhCider]

Anything is corruptible. We're talking the essence of terms here. National Socialism is not socialism, it is fascism. You keep inferring that the Nazis were socialists when in fact they were fascists.

[lidixmang]

Yes, as I stated before, any form of government is corruptible.

And also, as I stated before, national socialism is a combination of socialism with fascism. When the two are combined, they form a very unique ideology.

But you don't have to take my word for it, look it up yourself, sir. There are countless resources available online that will help you define national socialism.

Either way, we are repeating ourselves, so I don't know how if this debate is constructive or just a waste of time.

[ianyoutub]

National socialism is NOT a combination of fascism with socialism. It is pure fascism. Socialism is a completely different phenomenon.

[lidixmang]

Ianyoutub,

Please explain the economic system in socialism, including the role of the government.

[ianyoutub]

You are totally distorting 20th century history to fit your own narrow misguided economic theory. You want an example of a country that is relatively socialist - try Sweden. And believe me, that socially advanced progressive country is a FAR FAR cry from the nationalistic hell of Nazi Germany as you'd soon discover if you had to actually live in both and compare them as opposed to sitting back and presenting your skewed little distortions on u-tube.

[lidixmang]

Nazi Germany did not start out with extreme nationalism. It was a gradual process starting with a socialist economy.

[quantumcodex]

@lidixmang

Actually, Hitler's Nazi party was devoted to extreme nationalism from inception. Hitler's election as chancellor permanently destroyed the Weimar Republic, and replaced a democratically elected government with a nationalist dictatorship.

[quantumcodex]

@lidixmang

You apparently believe Hitler's Nazi Party was a prime example of classic socialism because Hitler's policy decisions eventually nationalized the German economy. Such a view of socialism is completely warped. The paramount vision of socialism has always been democratic governance, responsive and accountable to the people. Consequently, Hitler's Germany was quite diametrically opposed to even the slightest tendency to embrace true socialism.