We allow them to reduce them this time and then they decide to reduce them again and again and again. I'm tired of them trying to take away my rights. I feel that we should be able to pack our Legally Licensed Weapons the way we want where we want as the laws only hurt law abiding citizens. Those that choose to get Weapons (and other items) illegally will continue to get them and will continue to get larger clips as well.... When is enough enough?!?!
@jkirbster And as to those saying its not much of a difference, you are right its not in the short go and in the self defense aspect most of us will never ever in our lifetime need to go through even close to one clip however its the thought that more and more of our rights are being taken away. Not so much the fact of the clip size!
Thanks Dave and Bill you articulated "played-out" on the range what I've been telling friends: the lunacy of this clip legislation. I see my self on the left politically- but love my guns (and big clips). Black sheep, I guess.
But what if the target is running and he has more bullets than less, obviously if he misses his target with the bullets he has he will have to reload, the higher capacity you have you get more chances to hit the the target.
If the magazine was less and he'd miss he'd run out of bullets.
(Continued) In fact, if you imagine that all of the balloons in this video are people rushing the shooter, you could see how the pause could allow someone to stop the shooter long enough for the others behind him to catch up and help in subduing the shooter. If that had happened, seven lives (balloons) would be saved.
I guess your the hero who doesn't RUN FROM GUN FIRE like in the movies? When someone has a gun, your running or hiding or frozen. Society, media, etc. has tought people to fear guns, which is exactly what happens during an attack almost always.
Most criminals don't shoot with two hands to hit a 6 inch wide balloon, it's a lot easier to hit a human thats on average 2+ feet wide. So who's to say that magazine isn't in his hand? Which it ideally would be if he's on a shooting spree.
Your 'imagining' something that's never going to happen. You might get one 'hero' who rushes a gun, which almost will always turn into a failed attempt, but even those odds are small. Look at 4 different airplanes on 9/11, out of hundreds of combined passengers, one small group on ONE plane, decided to NOT BE AFRAID of a box cutter. Try finding someone who's not insane, to rush at a shooter. Fight or flight instincts virtually always flight from a firearm.
(Continued) As soon as someone began shooting you would have some people running away and some trying to stop the shooter. The pause between magazine changes would allow people the chance to stop the shooter. (next post)
Nobody tries to stop the shooter unless a.) They're within reach of the gun or b.) They themselves have a firearm. Imagine your at the Arizona shooting where Jared Loughtner killed those people. In the heat of a gun fight and movement, a good samaritan in the audience who is a concealed weapon owner, engages Jared in a shootout. Samaritan has a limited round count of 8 and he misses with the 8. I'd rather my government had allowed that good guy to have 17 rounds instead of 8.
and the law wouldn't also limit Loughtner, cause remember he's a criminal and came to kill, so he already has more loaded magazines. The good guy only has his loaded firearm to save himself in the smaller chance of encountering a self-defense situation. Happy your government put restrictions on saving himself?
I sympathize with a lot of second amendment arguments for decreased legislation of arms. I don't however, think that ANY law that regulates arms is unjust. This is a law that i happen to agree with and I will explain why. If you assume that those balloons are actual people that are waiting for the person shooting the gun to kill them then this video does in fact make sense. I don't think that people would behave that way though. (next post)
When was the last time any politician drafted legislation to restore gun rights? I wouldn't call sitting on ones' lazy ass allowing prohibitive legislation to expire a pro gun rights action .
Plain and simple we need a federal "shall" issue ccw permiting program for law abidding citizens that is not resticted by state law.
First off, calling the left "idiots" probably isn't going to help your case. Not all lefties are against guns. The reduced capacity magazines very well can save lives. Most thugs aren't carrying extra magazines, so reduced capacity would have the potential to save lives, by limited the amount of total rounds capable. I'm against restricted magazines, except in the case of automatic weapons (carbines, SMGs). The message here is good, but the delivery is insulting.
Good video and shows a very important point.. reduced cap mags do not "save lives" like the left would have us believe BTW where are you shooting this video? Looks like front sight.
Continued... That being said I would rather have more rounds in my clip, as an experienced shooter, for defending my family, and my home. All I am getting at is stop with minor insults. Talk with passion, that's great! But limit the rhetoric, I know it sells advertisement, and makes money for you but just think about it.
Not Left, Not Right (rarely am I right), No God (you can have one), Not Poor, Not Rich, good neighbor, proud papa, okay husband (I hope)
Continued... Stop trying to incite others with fear tactics. I am also tactically trained with firearms. I believe I started shooting when I was 5 or 6 with my gramps' (101st Airborne). Your demonstration proves nothing. Please get two people who have limited firearms training. Run the same scenario then and I believe you will see different results. Now! if you want to be "Scientific" you will run the tests about 50-100 times each with experienced and newbie users. Just saying...
I am not left nor right. I support the 2A, as I do every part of the Constitution. I am very concerned with people who only support the a la carte method of being American. That being said, please do not talk about science as if it were nothing but a tool for the "left". I do not want to insult anyone but some people do not have the capacity, or skill set, to understand the Scientific method. Just as I do not have skill sets to perform certain functions of day-to-day society...
I for one am tired of all the pussy footing around that everyone here seems to advocate about reasoning with our Government, when our Government does not give a shit about reasoning. If the Government wants to turn all of us that follow the 2A as written into criminals, lets use the 2A before it is outlawed. Nuff said.
Very well done, gentlemen. But reduced capacity magazines has nothing to do with saving lives. It is just one more step toward the ultimate goal of disarming the American citizens.
Just as "Global Warming" is not science, it is not about "saving the planet" from some imaginary catastrophe. It is about CONTROL. We are losing our freedoms because our politicians are usurping powers not authorized in the Constitution.
Government is supposed to exist to protect our God-given Rights.
As has been said already, to prevent credibility loss insults directed at the left need to be dropped. We must always take the high road. When Democrats riot at the RNC we must turn the other cheek. Let them be the bad guys by us remaining the good guys. Also if we are not insulting them we may even get a few of them to see the light with our sound logic.
My state is trying to pass this bullshit legislation to make mags over 10 rounds illegal. If it passes, they better be trading me 10 rounders for the 15 round mags that came with my Glock, or giving me $80 to buy 2 new factory mags.
I also expect another $40 for the Ruger 10/22 twenty-five round mag I bought.
Yeah, these guys need to wake up and smell the coffee. It's not a "left" vs "right" issue. It's a freedom lover vs ruling class issue. But their demonstration is correct. The difference between using 2 15 round magazines, and one 30 round magazine, is one or two seconds. This has come up once in history, in the Tucson shooting. The ruling class wants to buy one or two useless seconds by selling a fundamental right ("shall not be infringed") down the river. Doesn't seem like a good deal to me.
@tree584931 I couldn't agree with you more. I once frequented a predominately Liberal social networking site that only had a small percentage of Non-Liberals. In this site, they would get uptight about Conservatives (or anybody else whom doesn't think like them) writing "insensitive" remarks, yet I receive a huge verbal thrashing for posting a link to a video condemning Barack Obama. The name of this social networking site is Care2.com.
Do you happen to know the name of that supreme court case? The one when the justices ruled that the police aren't obligated to protect people? I am asking for the name so I can search for the court transcripts outlining that case. If that case actually happened, I would like to have proof of it before bringing that up in the event that I find myself in a gun control debate with somebody.
Limiting magazine capacity puts the average Joe at greater risk of being killed in case he needs to use his gun for self defense. One of the You Tube videos shows a guy driving home one night and shooting 12 shots thru his own windshield at a guy who pulls a gun on him. "Those who would sacrifice essential liberty for the sake of peace and security will soon have neither" Remember that?
@mrg5150 I'm not saying you should be Mr. Nice Guy, but insulting someone is not a step in the process of effectively convincing someone to agree with your position. You're essentially assuming the attitude of the unintelligent and ignorant we're combating and allowing your feelings to guide your argument.
So, "good olde common sense will leave the Left behind"?
I'm a 18 year veteran IPSC shooter, a vocal 2nd Amendment supporter and a "Lefty", should we still be so divided on the issues? Is that helpful?
Chuck Schumer and Hillary don't speak for me. They are the "Corporate-left". Obama's the "corporate Center". Ralph Nader's more "Left" yet he recognizes the value of the 2nd amnt and has vowed to recognize it. That's the true Left.
Protection from Oligarchy, corporate rule and respect for rights
The same crime just took place twice. One was 1.75 seconds slower than the other. You couldn't pull out your mobile phone and dial 911 in that time. Let's stop the BS! Reducing magazine count is about getting a foot in the door and THAT IS ALL!!!
I distinctly recall watching a youtube video posted from a police dashcam, where the LEO approached a pulled-over vehicle, and the driver of that vehicle took one shot at the officer (and luckily missed) and began to speed off. The LEO opened fire on the vehicle, firing 17 shots in RAPID succession, hitting the driver and causing him to crash. Aside from the lack of legal right to shoot a fleeing suspect, it's one instance where a high-cap magazine was crucial. Those instances DO exist.
@n8hud1 actually officers can shoot a fleeing felon, if they believe the lives of others are at risk. due to the fact that the guy just blasted right at the officer's face, its safe to assume this man is a threat. but this is totally off subject lol
@n8hud1 actually officers can shoot a fleeing felon, if they believe the lives of others are at risk. due to the fact that the guy just blasted right at the officer's face, its safe to assume this man is a threat. but this is totally off subject lol
I maybe should've specified - I was meaning that armed CITIZENS do not have a legal right to shoot at a fleeing suspect. I didn't mean to imply at all that the officer was in the wrong - I fully back his actions 100%! I was just pointing out that sometimes, a high-capacity magazine might be necessary. And yes, I know I got well off-topic. Thanks for your comment tho
missing the point here. if you're doing a drive by you're just blasting out the window until your clip is empty, and if you only have 8 rounds then you pew pew 8 times and then drive home w your buddies feeling like a badass all day
This month's Tucson shooting showed major flaws in your demonstration/argument in this video. First, the targets in your demo didn't move and didn't fight back. The latter point is particularly important b/c the Tucson shooter was disarmed WHILE RELOADING, but none of your targets attacked you while you reloaded. Also, there's a bigger difference between a 30 round clip and a 10 round clip than w/the 17 round clip you used.
@LiberalViewer: What happens when a law abiding citizen has a 10 round magazine and the criminal is using an illegal 30 round magazine? The law doesn't protect the citizen but rather aids the criminal.
Great video, calling the left idiots is appropriate in light of all the BS the left has been spewing since the tragedy in AZ. Keep up the good work guys. Oh and for those claiming to be 2nd amendment supporters that seem to spend their time only looking for things to complain about get a life guys quit attacking the messenger geez you bitch about everything anymore.
@coloradolinux I think that its important to point out that if there wher people there with concealed carry permits than the outcome would have been very differant. A small handful of victims instead of what was it, 6 dead and 13 or 14 wounded?
@sandbagguy you need to do some checking, cause the guy that tackled Loughner, was carrying. He smart NOT to draw and start firing, cause then he would have been considered as another shooter. Now, unless he took a round from Loughner, then I bet he would have drawn and fired back.
nice comments.the left doesnt seem to realize they r going the way of the dinasaur.they have supprted the legal murder(read abortion) for the past 30 years,they support gays rights(gays dont reproduce) and they have given up all their gun rights(easy targets) so it wont be long until they are extinct.if vote count no one will be left to vote for them,they are gettting rid of their own people.
This proves nothing. "Bill and I are experieced tactical shooters." The average schmuck looking to kill people can't pull clean and fast reloads like that. And I love this guys quote about infringing on rights. How about all the other rights the government tramples over? What do these guys think of the TSA? Dept of Homeland Security? Warrantless wire tapping?
Your response to call the entire left side "Idiots" is not a correct assersion. Several conservative groups are also pushing for gun control resulting from the AZ shooting, granted not as many as liberal sides. While I take no labels of "Right" or "Left", simply American, & am a proud gun owner and support the 2nd amendment, you should not use this as this as a medium to blame specifically the liberals for gun control.
I went to Front Sight firearms institute in Pahrump, Nevada. During the lecture, my friends and I occupied the front center row of the classroom. That was about 10 totally liberal firearms students. We are trying to make headway with educating our spouses and friends, but this kind of hateful crap sets us back. If the right wants the left to get on board with guns, they need to grow up.
intersting vid,good thing iam not in cali or such state,poor guys over there,anyhow ,one thing wonders me a great deal....How come that lawenforcment has and can keep "bigger" mag's or mag's with more rounds than we "regular" citizens ? whats the reason behind it ? perhaps to get a couple rounds off in a 2 second firepause for mag change ?
Daily Kos RKBA wants to thank you for making this video useless for us to work on changing minds on our OWN side, and protecting YOUR rights as well as our OWN with your childish "the LEFT" this and "the LEFT" that.
We get called a bunch of right wing fascists for working from the left to protect your gun rights as well as our own, the high cap magazine battle is one we're fighting now, and I'd hoped you'd give me something i could use here, but you had to ruin it by talking shit.
We know why they are infringing on gun rights. They know the time will come when they go "door to door" confiscating our guns. They want as few casualties to these officers as possible. Tyranny abounds. Constitution? What constitution?
Part 3 - ... continued ... I think every gun owner in Kali we all need class action suits against the illegality of the local laws we need to sue sue sue and break the economic back of this illegal alien harboring nation state a.k.a. kalimexico.
Part 2 - ... continued ... what part of a well armed militia of citizens do our so called representatives in government not understand? Time will come that every individual meets 'the elephant'. They'll call the cops & when they arrive to take the photos of their dead bodies they may change their minds on their way out to space.
Thank You for this very thought provoking video which details the fallacy that somehow we the people are safer with lesser amount of rounds in magazines, it was done with fact and also shows the warning about the government/law enforcement against the people clearly.
Our government in Kalifornia is illegal unconstitutional and yet all of the 2nd amendment patriots do nothing beyond paying for memberships to NRA, Nagr. "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infriged upon"
Let me start off by saying that I am completly against reducing mag capacities, all it does is it takes away our means of self defense. "Bad guys" will get what ever they want, they don't abide by our laws, but come on. There's more to the whole thing than just left and right, republican and democrat. This is why nothing can get done in this country. Each side spends more time bitching and trying to out do the other guy than actually doing anything important.
Fantastic demonstration... but guys, I'd never show this to a legislator that I want to see my point of view. Go back and re-record this WITHOUT all the snarky insults to the left and this will be a valuable video to show to all the Democrats in MA who we would need to vote down our current "Assault" Weapons Ban.
Got to love this numbnuts "Xerock". The federal assault weapons bill was introduced by Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy, a Democrat, and signed by Bill Clinton, a Democrat.
no insults that I heard - the only people insulted by this vid are those who want to control others, spend others money, tell others how to worship or not, or tell them where or how to live - high capacity magizines are there for defense against criminals (which the aclu loves to help) and socialists, who want to fundamentally change America - defend yourselves against both !
@poncedeleon99 they are used to simulate the size of person's skull. Don't have many volunteers for that, so would you like to volunteer? No? I didn't think so, but was hoping for a yes, cause the world could do with one less Libtard like you.
@youtubasoarus NEVER or else they would not be called criminals. Now when a criminal breaks into a person's home, that just happens to be a Law Abiding, Natural Born, US Citizen. That citizen defends their home by utilizing their 2nd Amendment Right and shoot the criminal. But sadly, the ACLU comes to the defense of the dead bastard, cause he more than likely was a minority, but could have been white trash, which the ACLU does not care that a white guy was killed.
I would try and tell you all the things that are wrong with that statement, but its pointless to try and reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
The problem I have here is that this argument makes sense. A lot of sense. But why, WHY do they feel it necessary to insult people who disagree with them? Their argument can be made without the childish snipes at the "left". It is good enough to stand on it's own. But when they poke, they loose validity. Sad, just sad.
Can you argue without insults? Yes. And those are usually valid points.
I'm very pro 2A but can't handle the insults. It makes an argument childish and unprofessional. Strip this video of partisan commentary and it might actually convince some people. Not one single 2A opponent will make it past Dave's "IDIOT" comment at 0:37 without already making up their mind how they feel on the subject. Fellas, you're preaching to the choir, try changing your strategy.
I appreciate the message of the video but it would have been a lot more professional without the political insults. I have mostly democratic legislators and the insults alone would make them disregard this video completely. Thanks for making an otherwise good experiment essentially unsendable to a democratic legislator.
First, I would like to start out by saying I agree with you on this particular issue. I understand the left bashing, but I could really do without it. Calling someone an idiot isn't going to get them to listen to you.
I disagree with this approach. 1. You two are very experienced shooters. A reduced magazine capacity which would force a psycho path to reload who isn't going to be as well trained as you could take them 5 seconds or more. Giving time for onlookers to stop the attack
@lizard450 It should be noted that in the most recent attack the psycho path was in fact stopped after his magazine ran dry. Had he had a 10 round magazine perhaps he would have been stopped sooner. The fact of the matter is that this is pure speculation.
The correct approach is to focus more heavily on individual freedom. The real meaning behind having firearms defense from an unjust government and self-defense being a natural right. That a good person with a 33 round magazine harms no one. "We end up enforcing laws and forcing everyone to live by rules that only attempt to prevent the last thing that was done by the least controllable among us." Jon Stewart.
To really help, we need to identify crazy a lot better.
Did you completely miss the entire point? He didn't bring another magazine or did, but didn't load it. Changing them as the video says, takes seconds.
@inkman234 It takes 2 seconds for a person who has practiced. It might take 5-10 seconds for someone who has not practiced. I read recently that the shooter's gun actually had a FTF and that was when he was taken down.
My point is the whole magazine capacity debate is playing in the anti-gunner's back yard and entertaining their ignorance with name calling and arguments of questionable logical validity isn't helping IMHO.
At some point we want to bring the debate into our back yard
Did you completely miss the entire point? He didn't bring another magazine or did, but didn't load it. Changing them as the video says, takes seconds.
Oh man every time he said "legislaTORS" I laughed.
Anyway, not everybody on "THE LEFT" are for gun control. I would say the majority of us are in favor of the social liberties granted by the constitution's amendments, including the 2nd one. Naturally we would be against any limiting of our rights with respect to guns.
Carns is a rabid dog. This baby bully relentlessly picked on a kid on the top shot TV show because he said something about his X. Bill was foaming at the mouth about his X and the kid said she wasn’t that bad was she? Big deal, a normal person would have let it go. Totally Inappropriate behavior for someone who professes he is a professional. Any chump can run his mouth at fifty mph on a subject that has no value. I do not want people like Carns representing me period because no one listens.
Gee Willis - you figured our that guns kill. You are obviously a member of Mensa. Too bad you have no common sense, logic, or facts. If you read Professor Gary Fleck's research you will find that guns are used many times more to protect and defend the innocent than the are to commit criminal acts. So what we find is that you're spewing ignorant dribble without have any idea what you're talking about. Will you now go read Fleck's research? Nope. You're a Leftist. You don't care about facts.
i would love to see you guys do that with moving targets . that would make a great video .if you could make the tagets the DNC logos that would be ubber.
This video would be a lot more effective if these two weren't overt bigots. I'm farther to the left than these clowns are to the right and I am a solid believer in gun rights. I am also very keenly aware that the police are not around to protect but rather to control people and contain crime to certain areas.
I would never show this to my rep since these guys are so extreme they destroy their own argument. They score cheap points and harden opposition.
"All those rounds hit those on the left.." 3.05 mark. You don't call making a reference to mass shooting based on perceived political belief an indication of bigoted "thinking"? Such comments are made throughout the video aimed at "the left" whoever, or whatever, that is supposed to be.
Sigh. Why don't you just ask when I "stopped beating my wife". Your effort to narrow this debate for your own benefit just failed. Get used to that feeling.
Oh I see, you take exception with how I worded my question.
Well, you could you stop avoiding the essence of my question and enlighten me...
Or you could try to put me down.
It just makes you look silly.
Wait a second, I just read what I asked you, wtf are you talking about? Those are legit q's. Are you a statist? Are you a communist? Are you a facist? I don't understand why people want to take other peoples stuff. Can you explain, yes or no?
First of all whether or not I'm a statist has nothing to do with the Second Amendment and our rights to own firearms.
Also "I don't understand why people...stuff" comment is just bating in an effort to change the subject. Implicit in it is the assumption that I'm one of those people. Which I'm not.
Congratulations, you have failed again.
Stay with the topic at hand. Or remain silent. You can find all kinds of commentary on "statism" all over the internet. Do your own homework.
You keep taling about failure as though it is something to be avoided.
I admit it is difficult to understand where people are coming from in this format and assumptions are necessary for quick communication.
From your response I DID assume you were some sort of governmentalist and that you could share your thoughts with me.
I wasnt able to discern until after you explained that you are not a statist, just an asshole and you cannot enlighten me, only shit on me. Good luck with life.
Asshole? Really, I'm not the one who brought up things like statist or fascist into things. Instead of actually asking questions about firearms and the ownership there of you tried to start a completely off-topic thread and failed because I won't take the bait. You missed a real chance to find about my stance on gun ownership through your lack of focus. When you couldn't have your way you started with the insults. You have not covered yourself in glory today.
I brought that up as a response to their extremism and mis-perceptions. That is all. Also as a response to their "jokes" about shooting leftists as though we are all the same and all in favor of gutting the 2nd Amendment.
This lie about the left has been going through the right for way to long and i want to undermine when and where I can.
What is being Left mean to you? I understand that neo leftists means communist aka pure democracy, no property rights, no individualism as starkly opposed to classic liberalism which means absolute individualism.
While Neocons means fascism which again takes rights away from the individual and places it with the government, which is starkly opposed to classical conservitism again, minimum government and rights belong to the individual.
Nope not wound up I just don't feel like getting into an off topic discussion is all. Go to some place like Znet and read up you'll get far more info than on a youtube comment page.
We all know that having guns is our right to defend ourselves and our family. If gun control is instituted, then only Criminals will have guns. We Know this, the Government knows this. This is NOT why they want gun control, it has nothing to do with crime, although that's the excuse they make. If they can disarm the citizenry, totalitarian rule will be much easier.
You are absolutely correct. Crime is only the excuse, they need it so they have something to keep us safe from. They never have and never will have any intention of reducing crime.
Like the saying goes, gun control isn't about the gun, it's about the control.
I must disagree with one point. Only criminals will have guns? No, criminals and "proper authorities" will have guns. I could see where more guns would be out there as crime goes up the rich would surround themselves with private security. Those criminals would by -pass the rich to attack those who can't afford security. Added to that you could get mowed down by crossing the street in front of one of these security details. Personally I REALLY like rule of law. The alternative stinks.
Dave and Bill do such an excellent job of illustrating the real world results of idiotic and ignorant gun legislation in this video. Kudos guys! Furthermore, listening regularly to their respective radio shows bears further monumental witness to the degree that all our inalienable rights are being subverted. I believe theres a final showdown coming in the near future.
Good truthful demo. I think you both should have run the course of fire with and without a reduced magazine. That way no one can say "Well that Dave guy is just better than that Bill guy!" To add to the self protection injustice advertised by various US states is the idea of CCW "MAY ISSUE". Sounds like a state will allow you to obtain a permit but good luck getting one if you are an average law abiding citizen. They have the power to say "NO!" Especially here in Kalifornia.
Here's the bottom line, people kill people not the guns. So if we factor out the criminal, because the criminal does not follow the law, hello, their criminals. Then we must focus on accidental deaths. According to vital statistics for 2002: Motor Vehicle deaths were 43,354; Falls 13,322, Poisioning 12,757; medical complications 3,059, accidental firearms deaths 776. Death by firearm in accidents are way below #1 in vehicles should we outlaw all vehicles?
Great demo guys! I appreciate you 2 putting this together for level headed people to use as a tool to explain to those without basic gun knowledge the mag capacity limit issue. Keep up the good work!
Can't wait to see more.
Listen to their shows folks, they are packed full of great info!!! Get the Pod cast's.
First, those figures are highly skewed because they include gang violence. Second, the "children get hurt" argument is specious. Children get electrocuted and we do not stop using electricity in our homes. Children drown and we do not ban swimming pools. Children get run over by parents in the driveway and we don't ban cars. Why do you then focus on guns instead of electricity, pools, and cars? Because you do not see guns as "necessary". You are bias from the start.
@molonlabe10 thats a ridiculous argument. The purpose of electricity is to provide light in a home, the purpose of a swimming pool is entertainment, cars provide easy transportation, the sole purpose of a gun is to kill. A mugger is not going to bring you over to an electrical wire or a pool, hes not going to go around hitting people with his car. He is going to have a gun, an easily concealable means of killing you. Guns do much more harm in this country than good.
@willis636 Gee Willis - you figured our that guns kill. You are obviously a member of Mensa. Too bad you have no common sense, logic, or facts. If you read Professor Gary Fleck's research you will find that guns are used many times more to protect and defend the innocent than the are to commit criminal acts. So what we find is that you're spewing ignorant dribble without have any idea what you're talking about. Will you now go read Fleck's research? Nope. You're a Leftist.
@molonlabe10 i hate it when people categorize you based on a single god damn opinion you have. i am not a leftist and i did read his research. it uses facts that support his argument while purposefully omitting others that don't. its a perfectly reasonable thing to do when your trying to make a case. but research with such bias must be taken with a grain of salt. his argument is that less gun control preventing crime yet the fact remains that the US is still in 3rd for gun related deaths, why?
I love the theory that reduced capacity magazine are to slow the criminal down so the police can get a shot on him. Guess what? A criminal isn't going to obey the law and use a legislatively reduced capacity magazine. He'll be using the original factory magazine! That means that only the law-abiding will have the legislatively reduced capacity magazines. So...the law is designed to allow the police to get a shot in on the law-abiding? Now there's some rocket scientist logic!
Which is why it was introduced by a REPUBLICAN (major shock to droolers like Dave and Bill). It gives the appearance of keeping people safe at a glimpse, but really does nothing.
@Xerock care to add a name to that Republican? And how about you also clarify which statement of mine is wrong and explain why you think so. If you feel that you have an appropriate counter for the debate, please bring it. But I doubt it will hold any merit.
The *idea* that people who are for reduced magazines pedal to isn't for the time between police response, its for WHILE police respond. Most "bad guys" aren't responsible, trained gunsmen - they're kids who steal the guns from daddy's gun collection or people who buy the gun from the back of a car trunk. I doubt most of them have that good of aim or that fast of reload. The idea is that fewer rounds buys the POLICE more time to take that crucial shot that kills or disarms said bad guy.
That being said, gun control is a joke. Anybody who wants a gun can get it; the laws are just meant to slow down an enraged idiot who wants to shoot his wife or an office building; they also discourage the lazy from getting a gun. The real crooks can get them right off the streets and there will always be daddies & mommies that leave guns out where Jr. can grab it & shoot up a high school. But not a bad video; just remember that name calling doesn't win minds over - it just turns them off.
I hate living in California.
aermotorstudio 1 month ago
the new world order wnats us all DISARMED
jasonbruneck 1 month ago
We allow them to reduce them this time and then they decide to reduce them again and again and again. I'm tired of them trying to take away my rights. I feel that we should be able to pack our Legally Licensed Weapons the way we want where we want as the laws only hurt law abiding citizens. Those that choose to get Weapons (and other items) illegally will continue to get them and will continue to get larger clips as well.... When is enough enough?!?!
jkirbster 2 months ago
@jkirbster And as to those saying its not much of a difference, you are right its not in the short go and in the self defense aspect most of us will never ever in our lifetime need to go through even close to one clip however its the thought that more and more of our rights are being taken away. Not so much the fact of the clip size!
jkirbster 2 months ago
Thanks Dave and Bill you articulated "played-out" on the range what I've been telling friends: the lunacy of this clip legislation. I see my self on the left politically- but love my guns (and big clips). Black sheep, I guess.
Kclaybond 2 months ago
They (the government) needs to read the 14th amendment.
reaperflynn3 2 months ago
But what if the target is running and he has more bullets than less, obviously if he misses his target with the bullets he has he will have to reload, the higher capacity you have you get more chances to hit the the target.
If the magazine was less and he'd miss he'd run out of bullets.
Luburium 5 months ago
If every other balloon had a gun pointed at the bad guy... Think about it... But not to long second guessing doesn't go well...
every2years 8 months ago
(Continued) In fact, if you imagine that all of the balloons in this video are people rushing the shooter, you could see how the pause could allow someone to stop the shooter long enough for the others behind him to catch up and help in subduing the shooter. If that had happened, seven lives (balloons) would be saved.
ndelta 8 months ago
@ndelta
I guess your the hero who doesn't RUN FROM GUN FIRE like in the movies? When someone has a gun, your running or hiding or frozen. Society, media, etc. has tought people to fear guns, which is exactly what happens during an attack almost always.
Most criminals don't shoot with two hands to hit a 6 inch wide balloon, it's a lot easier to hit a human thats on average 2+ feet wide. So who's to say that magazine isn't in his hand? Which it ideally would be if he's on a shooting spree.
TheSouthJersey 7 months ago
Your 'imagining' something that's never going to happen. You might get one 'hero' who rushes a gun, which almost will always turn into a failed attempt, but even those odds are small. Look at 4 different airplanes on 9/11, out of hundreds of combined passengers, one small group on ONE plane, decided to NOT BE AFRAID of a box cutter. Try finding someone who's not insane, to rush at a shooter. Fight or flight instincts virtually always flight from a firearm.
TheSouthJersey 7 months ago
(Continued) As soon as someone began shooting you would have some people running away and some trying to stop the shooter. The pause between magazine changes would allow people the chance to stop the shooter. (next post)
ndelta 8 months ago
@ndelta
Nobody tries to stop the shooter unless a.) They're within reach of the gun or b.) They themselves have a firearm. Imagine your at the Arizona shooting where Jared Loughtner killed those people. In the heat of a gun fight and movement, a good samaritan in the audience who is a concealed weapon owner, engages Jared in a shootout. Samaritan has a limited round count of 8 and he misses with the 8. I'd rather my government had allowed that good guy to have 17 rounds instead of 8.
TheSouthJersey 7 months ago
and the law wouldn't also limit Loughtner, cause remember he's a criminal and came to kill, so he already has more loaded magazines. The good guy only has his loaded firearm to save himself in the smaller chance of encountering a self-defense situation. Happy your government put restrictions on saving himself?
TheSouthJersey 7 months ago
I sympathize with a lot of second amendment arguments for decreased legislation of arms. I don't however, think that ANY law that regulates arms is unjust. This is a law that i happen to agree with and I will explain why. If you assume that those balloons are actual people that are waiting for the person shooting the gun to kill them then this video does in fact make sense. I don't think that people would behave that way though. (next post)
ndelta 8 months ago
When was the last time any politician drafted legislation to restore gun rights? I wouldn't call sitting on ones' lazy ass allowing prohibitive legislation to expire a pro gun rights action .
Plain and simple we need a federal "shall" issue ccw permiting program for law abidding citizens that is not resticted by state law.
FistingAlice 9 months ago in playlist Gun vids 2
First off, calling the left "idiots" probably isn't going to help your case. Not all lefties are against guns. The reduced capacity magazines very well can save lives. Most thugs aren't carrying extra magazines, so reduced capacity would have the potential to save lives, by limited the amount of total rounds capable. I'm against restricted magazines, except in the case of automatic weapons (carbines, SMGs). The message here is good, but the delivery is insulting.
Medevah 9 months ago
Good video and shows a very important point.. reduced cap mags do not "save lives" like the left would have us believe BTW where are you shooting this video? Looks like front sight.
Iridium242 9 months ago
Trying to reason with Democrat representatives is like trying to reason with a monkey. It accomplashies nothing.
NoGuff 10 months ago 3
Continued... That being said I would rather have more rounds in my clip, as an experienced shooter, for defending my family, and my home. All I am getting at is stop with minor insults. Talk with passion, that's great! But limit the rhetoric, I know it sells advertisement, and makes money for you but just think about it.
Not Left, Not Right (rarely am I right), No God (you can have one), Not Poor, Not Rich, good neighbor, proud papa, okay husband (I hope)
twowheeltonyracing 10 months ago
Continued... Stop trying to incite others with fear tactics. I am also tactically trained with firearms. I believe I started shooting when I was 5 or 6 with my gramps' (101st Airborne). Your demonstration proves nothing. Please get two people who have limited firearms training. Run the same scenario then and I believe you will see different results. Now! if you want to be "Scientific" you will run the tests about 50-100 times each with experienced and newbie users. Just saying...
twowheeltonyracing 10 months ago
I am not left nor right. I support the 2A, as I do every part of the Constitution. I am very concerned with people who only support the a la carte method of being American. That being said, please do not talk about science as if it were nothing but a tool for the "left". I do not want to insult anyone but some people do not have the capacity, or skill set, to understand the Scientific method. Just as I do not have skill sets to perform certain functions of day-to-day society...
twowheeltonyracing 10 months ago
I for one am tired of all the pussy footing around that everyone here seems to advocate about reasoning with our Government, when our Government does not give a shit about reasoning. If the Government wants to turn all of us that follow the 2A as written into criminals, lets use the 2A before it is outlawed. Nuff said.
WesOrion 11 months ago
I lean left. The liberals are WRONG when it comes to firearm capacity.
Just more "feel good" legislation. "An evil person", with the intent to do harm, is impossible to defend against. See: sucker punch.
RecordnRtist 11 months ago 2
Very well done, gentlemen. But reduced capacity magazines has nothing to do with saving lives. It is just one more step toward the ultimate goal of disarming the American citizens.
Just as "Global Warming" is not science, it is not about "saving the planet" from some imaginary catastrophe. It is about CONTROL. We are losing our freedoms because our politicians are usurping powers not authorized in the Constitution.
Government is supposed to exist to protect our God-given Rights.
abukamoon 11 months ago 2
As has been said already, to prevent credibility loss insults directed at the left need to be dropped. We must always take the high road. When Democrats riot at the RNC we must turn the other cheek. Let them be the bad guys by us remaining the good guys. Also if we are not insulting them we may even get a few of them to see the light with our sound logic.
user616678 1 year ago
Don't try to use logic and common sense against gun and magazine banners because they don't believe in that kind of stuff.
GunOwnerDan 1 year ago
md is also trying to go down to 10 rd mags when were already at a rediculous 20
winchester1094 1 year ago
Link regarding court case where a Judge ruled that PD do not have to defend people.
.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html
pgfd17640 1 year ago
As much of a pro-gun, right winger as I am, the snarky comments about the left will turn off many people who may have approached with an open mind.
GoldenWinger 1 year ago
My state is trying to pass this bullshit legislation to make mags over 10 rounds illegal. If it passes, they better be trading me 10 rounders for the 15 round mags that came with my Glock, or giving me $80 to buy 2 new factory mags.
I also expect another $40 for the Ruger 10/22 twenty-five round mag I bought.
NESurvivalPrep 1 year ago
Yeah, these guys need to wake up and smell the coffee. It's not a "left" vs "right" issue. It's a freedom lover vs ruling class issue. But their demonstration is correct. The difference between using 2 15 round magazines, and one 30 round magazine, is one or two seconds. This has come up once in history, in the Tucson shooting. The ruling class wants to buy one or two useless seconds by selling a fundamental right ("shall not be infringed") down the river. Doesn't seem like a good deal to me.
j3ox 1 year ago
Lol... the insults did make me laugh, but they do make it look unprofessional.
2A all the way!
IVIUPPET 1 year ago
@tree584931 I couldn't agree with you more. I once frequented a predominately Liberal social networking site that only had a small percentage of Non-Liberals. In this site, they would get uptight about Conservatives (or anybody else whom doesn't think like them) writing "insensitive" remarks, yet I receive a huge verbal thrashing for posting a link to a video condemning Barack Obama. The name of this social networking site is Care2.com.
Snobert99 1 year ago
Do you happen to know the name of that supreme court case? The one when the justices ruled that the police aren't obligated to protect people? I am asking for the name so I can search for the court transcripts outlining that case. If that case actually happened, I would like to have proof of it before bringing that up in the event that I find myself in a gun control debate with somebody.
Snobert99 1 year ago
Limiting magazine capacity puts the average Joe at greater risk of being killed in case he needs to use his gun for self defense. One of the You Tube videos shows a guy driving home one night and shooting 12 shots thru his own windshield at a guy who pulls a gun on him. "Those who would sacrifice essential liberty for the sake of peace and security will soon have neither" Remember that?
Wuff4u 1 year ago
@mrg5150 I'm not saying you should be Mr. Nice Guy, but insulting someone is not a step in the process of effectively convincing someone to agree with your position. You're essentially assuming the attitude of the unintelligent and ignorant we're combating and allowing your feelings to guide your argument.
SenorSnuffleupagus 1 year ago
So, "good olde common sense will leave the Left behind"?
I'm a 18 year veteran IPSC shooter, a vocal 2nd Amendment supporter and a "Lefty", should we still be so divided on the issues? Is that helpful?
Chuck Schumer and Hillary don't speak for me. They are the "Corporate-left". Obama's the "corporate Center". Ralph Nader's more "Left" yet he recognizes the value of the 2nd amnt and has vowed to recognize it. That's the true Left.
Protection from Oligarchy, corporate rule and respect for rights
AnotherWayFilms 1 year ago
The same crime just took place twice. One was 1.75 seconds slower than the other. You couldn't pull out your mobile phone and dial 911 in that time. Let's stop the BS! Reducing magazine count is about getting a foot in the door and THAT IS ALL!!!
blownone1 1 year ago 7
I distinctly recall watching a youtube video posted from a police dashcam, where the LEO approached a pulled-over vehicle, and the driver of that vehicle took one shot at the officer (and luckily missed) and began to speed off. The LEO opened fire on the vehicle, firing 17 shots in RAPID succession, hitting the driver and causing him to crash. Aside from the lack of legal right to shoot a fleeing suspect, it's one instance where a high-cap magazine was crucial. Those instances DO exist.
n8hud1 1 year ago
@n8hud1 actually officers can shoot a fleeing felon, if they believe the lives of others are at risk. due to the fact that the guy just blasted right at the officer's face, its safe to assume this man is a threat. but this is totally off subject lol
MrKylekincaid 1 year ago
@n8hud1 actually officers can shoot a fleeing felon, if they believe the lives of others are at risk. due to the fact that the guy just blasted right at the officer's face, its safe to assume this man is a threat. but this is totally off subject lol
MrKylekincaid 1 year ago
@MrKylekincaid
I maybe should've specified - I was meaning that armed CITIZENS do not have a legal right to shoot at a fleeing suspect. I didn't mean to imply at all that the officer was in the wrong - I fully back his actions 100%! I was just pointing out that sometimes, a high-capacity magazine might be necessary. And yes, I know I got well off-topic. Thanks for your comment tho
n8hud1 11 months ago
missing the point here. if you're doing a drive by you're just blasting out the window until your clip is empty, and if you only have 8 rounds then you pew pew 8 times and then drive home w your buddies feeling like a badass all day
crackinthekraken 1 year ago
This month's Tucson shooting showed major flaws in your demonstration/argument in this video. First, the targets in your demo didn't move and didn't fight back. The latter point is particularly important b/c the Tucson shooter was disarmed WHILE RELOADING, but none of your targets attacked you while you reloaded. Also, there's a bigger difference between a 30 round clip and a 10 round clip than w/the 17 round clip you used.
I hope you learned a lesson this month and
thanks for the video :-)
LiberalViewer 1 year ago
@LiberalViewer: What happens when a law abiding citizen has a 10 round magazine and the criminal is using an illegal 30 round magazine? The law doesn't protect the citizen but rather aids the criminal.
CDubSD 1 year ago 13
Great video, calling the left idiots is appropriate in light of all the BS the left has been spewing since the tragedy in AZ. Keep up the good work guys. Oh and for those claiming to be 2nd amendment supporters that seem to spend their time only looking for things to complain about get a life guys quit attacking the messenger geez you bitch about everything anymore.
coloradolinux 1 year ago 2
@coloradolinux I think that its important to point out that if there wher people there with concealed carry permits than the outcome would have been very differant. A small handful of victims instead of what was it, 6 dead and 13 or 14 wounded?
sandbagguy 1 year ago
@sandbagguy you need to do some checking, cause the guy that tackled Loughner, was carrying. He smart NOT to draw and start firing, cause then he would have been considered as another shooter. Now, unless he took a round from Loughner, then I bet he would have drawn and fired back.
WesOrion 1 year ago
The INSTANT you start calling people idiots, you've lost any potential for influencing anyone in a positive manner.
Too bad you've taken a needed message and trashed it.
geoffbeneze 1 year ago 2
The INSTANT you start calling people idiots, you've lost any potential for influencing anyone in a positive manner.
Bill's simply extending is abhorrent behavior from Top Shot.
Too bad you've taken a needed message and trashed it.
geoffbeneze 1 year ago 3
good video.
nice comments.the left doesnt seem to realize they r going the way of the dinasaur.they have supprted the legal murder(read abortion) for the past 30 years,they support gays rights(gays dont reproduce) and they have given up all their gun rights(easy targets) so it wont be long until they are extinct.if vote count no one will be left to vote for them,they are gettting rid of their own people.
tao123chi 1 year ago
This proves nothing. "Bill and I are experieced tactical shooters." The average schmuck looking to kill people can't pull clean and fast reloads like that. And I love this guys quote about infringing on rights. How about all the other rights the government tramples over? What do these guys think of the TSA? Dept of Homeland Security? Warrantless wire tapping?
h0ser81 1 year ago
@h0ser81 ask them.
Bulwark1911 1 year ago
Nice presentation.
rcbif101 1 year ago
"To infringe on your rights to accomplish nothing is not what govenment exists to do." Perfectly stated, and definitely worth repeating.
drj90210 1 year ago
@vincupula , i have that shirt, thosetshirts dizzot com
MrSkankaDank 1 year ago
Your response to call the entire left side "Idiots" is not a correct assersion. Several conservative groups are also pushing for gun control resulting from the AZ shooting, granted not as many as liberal sides. While I take no labels of "Right" or "Left", simply American, & am a proud gun owner and support the 2nd amendment, you should not use this as this as a medium to blame specifically the liberals for gun control.
bearsa113609 1 year ago
legislat00rz
JetSetForLife 1 year ago
SenorSnuff,
I agree with you. Good demo but not the way to go about it.
USFZeus 1 year ago
I went to Front Sight firearms institute in Pahrump, Nevada. During the lecture, my friends and I occupied the front center row of the classroom. That was about 10 totally liberal firearms students. We are trying to make headway with educating our spouses and friends, but this kind of hateful crap sets us back. If the right wants the left to get on board with guns, they need to grow up.
vegmunky 1 year ago
I know right, it's so easy for people to reload while being tackled to the ground and being shot at.
Manial12 1 year ago
@Manial12 You're right, people shooting back at a shooter is a good way to stop them. Hence we need more armed citizens ready to stop such attacks.
CydeWeys 1 year ago
Is that Bill from Top Shot?
armypenguin 1 year ago
Hey I remember Bill from Top Shot!
TheProsecuter 1 year ago
intersting vid,good thing iam not in cali or such state,poor guys over there,anyhow ,one thing wonders me a great deal....How come that lawenforcment has and can keep "bigger" mag's or mag's with more rounds than we "regular" citizens ? whats the reason behind it ? perhaps to get a couple rounds off in a 2 second firepause for mag change ?
Hoschi0913 1 year ago
this bald dude is HUGE
keltingr 1 year ago
Hey Baldy:
Daily Kos RKBA wants to thank you for making this video useless for us to work on changing minds on our OWN side, and protecting YOUR rights as well as our OWN with your childish "the LEFT" this and "the LEFT" that.
We get called a bunch of right wing fascists for working from the left to protect your gun rights as well as our own, the high cap magazine battle is one we're fighting now, and I'd hoped you'd give me something i could use here, but you had to ruin it by talking shit.
kestrel9000 1 year ago
@kestrel9000 - I am as anti-Kos as they come, but I agree 100% with what you just said. Insults never help a cause and not all lefties are anti-2A.
pbwalker 1 year ago
We know why they are infringing on gun rights. They know the time will come when they go "door to door" confiscating our guns. They want as few casualties to these officers as possible. Tyranny abounds. Constitution? What constitution?
Mag change laws are ignorant.
mrsparex 1 year ago 2
Maybe they could pass a law that requires a person to stay 100 feet away from a house if they have purposed in their minds to burglarize it?
That makes about as much sense as the mag change.
mrsparex 1 year ago
these guys sound exactly the same!!! what is up with that???
shadeshiest22 1 year ago
If I heard these guys on the radio, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them....
tellmeitsnottaken 1 year ago
Part 3 - ... continued ... I think every gun owner in Kali we all need class action suits against the illegality of the local laws we need to sue sue sue and break the economic back of this illegal alien harboring nation state a.k.a. kalimexico.
wingedlightning 1 year ago
Part 2 - ... continued ... what part of a well armed militia of citizens do our so called representatives in government not understand? Time will come that every individual meets 'the elephant'. They'll call the cops & when they arrive to take the photos of their dead bodies they may change their minds on their way out to space.
wingedlightning 1 year ago
Thank You for this very thought provoking video which details the fallacy that somehow we the people are safer with lesser amount of rounds in magazines, it was done with fact and also shows the warning about the government/law enforcement against the people clearly.
Our government in Kalifornia is illegal unconstitutional and yet all of the 2nd amendment patriots do nothing beyond paying for memberships to NRA, Nagr. "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infriged upon"
wingedlightning 1 year ago
You should do a video on why fully automatic firearms built before 1986 are no deadlier than fully automatic firearms built after 1986.
Riflemanm16a2 1 year ago
@Riflemanm16a2 Or a video on why imported "assualt weapons" are no deadlier than domestically built "assault weapons."
Riflemanm16a2 1 year ago
Let me start off by saying that I am completly against reducing mag capacities, all it does is it takes away our means of self defense. "Bad guys" will get what ever they want, they don't abide by our laws, but come on. There's more to the whole thing than just left and right, republican and democrat. This is why nothing can get done in this country. Each side spends more time bitching and trying to out do the other guy than actually doing anything important.
Blackjack4300 1 year ago
The Clinton gun ban video
stetsonwalker 1 year ago
someone tell me what left stands for please
kevindashid 1 year ago
@kevindashid Liberals
xmanhockey7 1 year ago
@kevindashid Left=Democrats
Blackjack4300 1 year ago
Fantastic demonstration... but guys, I'd never show this to a legislator that I want to see my point of view. Go back and re-record this WITHOUT all the snarky insults to the left and this will be a valuable video to show to all the Democrats in MA who we would need to vote down our current "Assault" Weapons Ban.
dwarven1 1 year ago 3
@dwarven1 maybe, but we don't care for PC. If words hurt the Liberals more than sticks and stones, so be it.
WesOrion 1 year ago
Got to love this numbnuts "Xerock". The federal assault weapons bill was introduced by Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy, a Democrat, and signed by Bill Clinton, a Democrat.
molonlabe10 1 year ago
I think these two are well spoken and made the point clear.
freestylesystemsTV 1 year ago
Socialism has to do with economics, not whether oversized boys can play with guns.
poncedeleon99 1 year ago
@poncedeleon99 really? Want to ask anyone in a truly Socialist nation about what type of firearm they legally own?
WesOrion 1 year ago
no insults that I heard - the only people insulted by this vid are those who want to control others, spend others money, tell others how to worship or not, or tell them where or how to live - high capacity magizines are there for defense against criminals (which the aclu loves to help) and socialists, who want to fundamentally change America - defend yourselves against both !
logginsalternate 1 year ago
Hahaha... leg-iss-lay-tores,,, these guys are cracking me up.
By the way, Thomas Jefferson didn't talk like an inbred shaved-head steroid douche, so forget that "quote" he uses.
poncedeleon99 1 year ago
I'm laughing at these guys in the video. Hilarious "balloon killers'. What's it about, anyway?
poncedeleon99 1 year ago
@poncedeleon99 they are used to simulate the size of person's skull. Don't have many volunteers for that, so would you like to volunteer? No? I didn't think so, but was hoping for a yes, cause the world could do with one less Libtard like you.
WesOrion 1 year ago
Precisely accurate. Also, since when do criminals obey the law?
youtubasoarus 1 year ago 37
@youtubasoarus NEVER or else they would not be called criminals. Now when a criminal breaks into a person's home, that just happens to be a Law Abiding, Natural Born, US Citizen. That citizen defends their home by utilizing their 2nd Amendment Right and shoot the criminal. But sadly, the ACLU comes to the defense of the dead bastard, cause he more than likely was a minority, but could have been white trash, which the ACLU does not care that a white guy was killed.
WesOrion 1 year ago
@WesOrion
I would try and tell you all the things that are wrong with that statement, but its pointless to try and reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
Xerock 1 year ago
Good video, but as has been said, the insults are detrimental to the goal of educating the ignorant.
godslefthand83 1 year ago 2
What they just did is perfectly illustrate why a highly trained shooter has absolutely no need for an extended capacity magazine.
azanna8625 1 year ago
The guy in arizona got tackled while he was changing magazines
TheLiberalAvenger 1 year ago
@TheLiberalAvenger He was tackled when he was dealing with a malfunction. He fired 31 rounds out of a 33 round magazine and had a jam.
Why the media is confused by this is because one step of clearing a jam is indeed to remove the magazine.
immikeurnot 1 year ago
@TheLiberalAvenger yes and the guy that tackled him was carrying. Which he was smart for not pulling and shooting.
WesOrion 1 year ago
some lefties own guns. your guys are tools.
leonphelps123 1 year ago
The problem I have here is that this argument makes sense. A lot of sense. But why, WHY do they feel it necessary to insult people who disagree with them? Their argument can be made without the childish snipes at the "left". It is good enough to stand on it's own. But when they poke, they loose validity. Sad, just sad.
Can you argue without insults? Yes. And those are usually valid points.
lightmanx 1 year ago 2
I'm very pro 2A but can't handle the insults. It makes an argument childish and unprofessional. Strip this video of partisan commentary and it might actually convince some people. Not one single 2A opponent will make it past Dave's "IDIOT" comment at 0:37 without already making up their mind how they feel on the subject. Fellas, you're preaching to the choir, try changing your strategy.
SenorSnuffleupagus 1 year ago 49
I appreciate the message of the video but it would have been a lot more professional without the political insults. I have mostly democratic legislators and the insults alone would make them disregard this video completely. Thanks for making an otherwise good experiment essentially unsendable to a democratic legislator.
machinas5868 1 year ago 3
First, I would like to start out by saying I agree with you on this particular issue. I understand the left bashing, but I could really do without it. Calling someone an idiot isn't going to get them to listen to you.
I disagree with this approach. 1. You two are very experienced shooters. A reduced magazine capacity which would force a psycho path to reload who isn't going to be as well trained as you could take them 5 seconds or more. Giving time for onlookers to stop the attack
lizard450 1 year ago
@lizard450 It should be noted that in the most recent attack the psycho path was in fact stopped after his magazine ran dry. Had he had a 10 round magazine perhaps he would have been stopped sooner. The fact of the matter is that this is pure speculation.
lizard450 1 year ago
@lizard450
The correct approach is to focus more heavily on individual freedom. The real meaning behind having firearms defense from an unjust government and self-defense being a natural right. That a good person with a 33 round magazine harms no one. "We end up enforcing laws and forcing everyone to live by rules that only attempt to prevent the last thing that was done by the least controllable among us." Jon Stewart.
To really help, we need to identify crazy a lot better.
lizard450 1 year ago
@lizard450
Did you completely miss the entire point? He didn't bring another magazine or did, but didn't load it. Changing them as the video says, takes seconds.
inkman234 1 year ago
@inkman234 It takes 2 seconds for a person who has practiced. It might take 5-10 seconds for someone who has not practiced. I read recently that the shooter's gun actually had a FTF and that was when he was taken down.
My point is the whole magazine capacity debate is playing in the anti-gunner's back yard and entertaining their ignorance with name calling and arguments of questionable logical validity isn't helping IMHO.
At some point we want to bring the debate into our back yard
lizard450 1 year ago
@lizard450
Did you completely miss the entire point? He didn't bring another magazine or did, but didn't load it. Changing them as the video says, takes seconds.
inkman234 1 year ago
Wasn't that guy Bill Carns on Top Shot?
dubbys 1 year ago
im glade i had a standard capacity mag and didnt have to reload.
operator81 1 year ago
Oh man every time he said "legislaTORS" I laughed.
Anyway, not everybody on "THE LEFT" are for gun control. I would say the majority of us are in favor of the social liberties granted by the constitution's amendments, including the 2nd one. Naturally we would be against any limiting of our rights with respect to guns.
stratelite 1 year ago 2
THE LEFT.
Dave514 1 year ago
Comment removed
Rich032379 1 year ago
Carns is a rabid dog. This baby bully relentlessly picked on a kid on the top shot TV show because he said something about his X. Bill was foaming at the mouth about his X and the kid said she wasn’t that bad was she? Big deal, a normal person would have let it go. Totally Inappropriate behavior for someone who professes he is a professional. Any chump can run his mouth at fifty mph on a subject that has no value. I do not want people like Carns representing me period because no one listens.
badmoonryzn 1 year ago
Gee Willis - you figured our that guns kill. You are obviously a member of Mensa. Too bad you have no common sense, logic, or facts. If you read Professor Gary Fleck's research you will find that guns are used many times more to protect and defend the innocent than the are to commit criminal acts. So what we find is that you're spewing ignorant dribble without have any idea what you're talking about. Will you now go read Fleck's research? Nope. You're a Leftist. You don't care about facts.
molonlabe10 1 year ago
"if an evil person decides to do evil" hahahaha thats too good
willis636 1 year ago
I just ordered your limited edition 1911 from ed brown. cant wait to shoot it when i get back from Iraq!
zackmac1000 1 year ago
his last name is Champion..........wow
FieldBoy111 1 year ago
Wow, what a bunch of bitches these fags are. I don't give a shit about mag capacity but these people are losers.
mygaffer 1 year ago
What are the chances we can get all the gangs to kill each other with crossbows?
urna55 1 year ago
i would love to see you guys do that with moving targets . that would make a great video .if you could make the tagets the DNC logos that would be ubber.
thezombieprophet 1 year ago
Good Vid, Rock on Guys!
lochdhu 1 year ago
Wow, I love you guys! I really liked the part on the end talking about tyranny.
tbjones14 1 year ago
The great reset is coming, I hope everyone is ready.
..X..
Xonegod 2 years ago
This video would be a lot more effective if these two weren't overt bigots. I'm farther to the left than these clowns are to the right and I am a solid believer in gun rights. I am also very keenly aware that the police are not around to protect but rather to control people and contain crime to certain areas.
I would never show this to my rep since these guys are so extreme they destroy their own argument. They score cheap points and harden opposition.
colddrake80 2 years ago
Bigot, bigotry-
The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion.
obstinacy? yep. thank god!
animosity? sure. for damn good reason.
irrationality? not a chance in hell!
retatkcid 2 years ago
"All those rounds hit those on the left.." 3.05 mark. You don't call making a reference to mass shooting based on perceived political belief an indication of bigoted "thinking"? Such comments are made throughout the video aimed at "the left" whoever, or whatever, that is supposed to be.
colddrake80 2 years ago
good point.
What is it about being left that you fancy?
Is it ridding people of personal property rights? Are you a Statist?
I hope you respond, i dont understand either left or right positions because I am not a statist. I would appreciate your input.
shadowcii 2 years ago
Sigh. Why don't you just ask when I "stopped beating my wife". Your effort to narrow this debate for your own benefit just failed. Get used to that feeling.
colddrake80 2 years ago
Oh I see, you take exception with how I worded my question.
Well, you could you stop avoiding the essence of my question and enlighten me...
Or you could try to put me down.
It just makes you look silly.
Wait a second, I just read what I asked you, wtf are you talking about? Those are legit q's. Are you a statist? Are you a communist? Are you a facist? I don't understand why people want to take other peoples stuff. Can you explain, yes or no?
shadowcii 2 years ago
First of all whether or not I'm a statist has nothing to do with the Second Amendment and our rights to own firearms.
Also "I don't understand why people...stuff" comment is just bating in an effort to change the subject. Implicit in it is the assumption that I'm one of those people. Which I'm not.
Congratulations, you have failed again.
Stay with the topic at hand. Or remain silent. You can find all kinds of commentary on "statism" all over the internet. Do your own homework.
colddrake80 2 years ago
You keep taling about failure as though it is something to be avoided.
I admit it is difficult to understand where people are coming from in this format and assumptions are necessary for quick communication.
From your response I DID assume you were some sort of governmentalist and that you could share your thoughts with me.
I wasnt able to discern until after you explained that you are not a statist, just an asshole and you cannot enlighten me, only shit on me. Good luck with life.
shadowcii 2 years ago
Asshole? Really, I'm not the one who brought up things like statist or fascist into things. Instead of actually asking questions about firearms and the ownership there of you tried to start a completely off-topic thread and failed because I won't take the bait. You missed a real chance to find about my stance on gun ownership through your lack of focus. When you couldn't have your way you started with the insults. You have not covered yourself in glory today.
colddrake80 2 years ago
"I'm farther to the left than these clowns are to the right and I am a solid believer in gun rights"
This is the topic I was interested in exploring with you.
shadowcii 2 years ago
I brought that up as a response to their extremism and mis-perceptions. That is all. Also as a response to their "jokes" about shooting leftists as though we are all the same and all in favor of gutting the 2nd Amendment.
This lie about the left has been going through the right for way to long and i want to undermine when and where I can.
colddrake80 2 years ago
What is being Left mean to you? I understand that neo leftists means communist aka pure democracy, no property rights, no individualism as starkly opposed to classic liberalism which means absolute individualism.
While Neocons means fascism which again takes rights away from the individual and places it with the government, which is starkly opposed to classical conservitism again, minimum government and rights belong to the individual.
You are so wound up...
shadowcii 2 years ago
Nope not wound up I just don't feel like getting into an off topic discussion is all. Go to some place like Znet and read up you'll get far more info than on a youtube comment page.
colddrake80 2 years ago
We all know that having guns is our right to defend ourselves and our family. If gun control is instituted, then only Criminals will have guns. We Know this, the Government knows this. This is NOT why they want gun control, it has nothing to do with crime, although that's the excuse they make. If they can disarm the citizenry, totalitarian rule will be much easier.
J0llyR0ger 2 years ago
You are absolutely correct. Crime is only the excuse, they need it so they have something to keep us safe from. They never have and never will have any intention of reducing crime.
Like the saying goes, gun control isn't about the gun, it's about the control.
Eaglecreekbrewer 2 years ago
I must disagree with one point. Only criminals will have guns? No, criminals and "proper authorities" will have guns. I could see where more guns would be out there as crime goes up the rich would surround themselves with private security. Those criminals would by -pass the rich to attack those who can't afford security. Added to that you could get mowed down by crossing the street in front of one of these security details. Personally I REALLY like rule of law. The alternative stinks.
colddrake80 2 years ago
Great, GREAT video! Thanks for uploading this.
INTENT is the problem with violent crimes. Not the guns.
redcollargedeon 2 years ago
And I agree with the makers of this awesome vid. It contains enough common sense to have left the left FAAAAAR behind.
5*'s
Eaglecreekbrewer 2 years ago
The way he pronounces "legislators" makes them sound like conquering evil robots.
ljonesvc 2 years ago
Still doesn't stop me from owning standard capacity mags. CA can suck my preban balls.
SLVRFOX88 2 years ago 3
Problem with that is the legislation really limits FUTURE availability. Magazines do wear out eventually. Even quality ones.
colddrake80 2 years ago
Dave and Bill do such an excellent job of illustrating the real world results of idiotic and ignorant gun legislation in this video. Kudos guys! Furthermore, listening regularly to their respective radio shows bears further monumental witness to the degree that all our inalienable rights are being subverted. I believe theres a final showdown coming in the near future.
yoyotweak 2 years ago
Great video, Dave!
sammassa 2 years ago
Good truthful demo. I think you both should have run the course of fire with and without a reduced magazine. That way no one can say "Well that Dave guy is just better than that Bill guy!" To add to the self protection injustice advertised by various US states is the idea of CCW "MAY ISSUE". Sounds like a state will allow you to obtain a permit but good luck getting one if you are an average law abiding citizen. They have the power to say "NO!" Especially here in Kalifornia.
Chuckstergun 2 years ago
Here's the bottom line, people kill people not the guns. So if we factor out the criminal, because the criminal does not follow the law, hello, their criminals. Then we must focus on accidental deaths. According to vital statistics for 2002: Motor Vehicle deaths were 43,354; Falls 13,322, Poisioning 12,757; medical complications 3,059, accidental firearms deaths 776. Death by firearm in accidents are way below #1 in vehicles should we outlaw all vehicles?
1911raven 2 years ago
Great demo guys! I appreciate you 2 putting this together for level headed people to use as a tool to explain to those without basic gun knowledge the mag capacity limit issue. Keep up the good work!
Can't wait to see more.
Listen to their shows folks, they are packed full of great info!!! Get the Pod cast's.
sliptripin 2 years ago
First, those figures are highly skewed because they include gang violence. Second, the "children get hurt" argument is specious. Children get electrocuted and we do not stop using electricity in our homes. Children drown and we do not ban swimming pools. Children get run over by parents in the driveway and we don't ban cars. Why do you then focus on guns instead of electricity, pools, and cars? Because you do not see guns as "necessary". You are bias from the start.
molonlabe10 2 years ago 3
@molonlabe10 thats a ridiculous argument. The purpose of electricity is to provide light in a home, the purpose of a swimming pool is entertainment, cars provide easy transportation, the sole purpose of a gun is to kill. A mugger is not going to bring you over to an electrical wire or a pool, hes not going to go around hitting people with his car. He is going to have a gun, an easily concealable means of killing you. Guns do much more harm in this country than good.
willis636 1 year ago
@willis636 Gee Willis - you figured our that guns kill. You are obviously a member of Mensa. Too bad you have no common sense, logic, or facts. If you read Professor Gary Fleck's research you will find that guns are used many times more to protect and defend the innocent than the are to commit criminal acts. So what we find is that you're spewing ignorant dribble without have any idea what you're talking about. Will you now go read Fleck's research? Nope. You're a Leftist.
molonlabe10 1 year ago
@molonlabe10 i hate it when people categorize you based on a single god damn opinion you have. i am not a leftist and i did read his research. it uses facts that support his argument while purposefully omitting others that don't. its a perfectly reasonable thing to do when your trying to make a case. but research with such bias must be taken with a grain of salt. his argument is that less gun control preventing crime yet the fact remains that the US is still in 3rd for gun related deaths, why?
willis636 1 year ago
And who cares if we use name-calling when addressing the Left. They're mentally ill. It's not like logic is ever going to change their minds.
molonlabe10 2 years ago 3
I love the theory that reduced capacity magazine are to slow the criminal down so the police can get a shot on him. Guess what? A criminal isn't going to obey the law and use a legislatively reduced capacity magazine. He'll be using the original factory magazine! That means that only the law-abiding will have the legislatively reduced capacity magazines. So...the law is designed to allow the police to get a shot in on the law-abiding? Now there's some rocket scientist logic!
molonlabe10 2 years ago 19
@molonlabe10
Which is why it was introduced by a REPUBLICAN (major shock to droolers like Dave and Bill). It gives the appearance of keeping people safe at a glimpse, but really does nothing.
Xerock 1 year ago
@Xerock care to add a name to that Republican? And how about you also clarify which statement of mine is wrong and explain why you think so. If you feel that you have an appropriate counter for the debate, please bring it. But I doubt it will hold any merit.
WesOrion 1 year ago
I hate balloons! KIll "em All!!!!
etertnaladam 2 years ago
The *idea* that people who are for reduced magazines pedal to isn't for the time between police response, its for WHILE police respond. Most "bad guys" aren't responsible, trained gunsmen - they're kids who steal the guns from daddy's gun collection or people who buy the gun from the back of a car trunk. I doubt most of them have that good of aim or that fast of reload. The idea is that fewer rounds buys the POLICE more time to take that crucial shot that kills or disarms said bad guy.
Direness 2 years ago
That being said, gun control is a joke. Anybody who wants a gun can get it; the laws are just meant to slow down an enraged idiot who wants to shoot his wife or an office building; they also discourage the lazy from getting a gun. The real crooks can get them right off the streets and there will always be daddies & mommies that leave guns out where Jr. can grab it & shoot up a high school. But not a bad video; just remember that name calling doesn't win minds over - it just turns them off.
Direness 2 years ago
well done, well said!
itsaboutmomentum 2 years ago