19 Palestinian children killed is a tragedy, yes, assuming you are correct in that, which I am not sure of, however I am sure that the Palestians have used suicide bombers to kill many innocent people and the number they have killed is far more than 19
There were 11 million people killed by the Nazi by various means, of that number, 6 million were Jews. The Nazi"s "Final Solution" or "Die Endlösung" was clear to any rational thinking person. They intended to wipe out the Jewish people and rid the world of them. David Irving in a court of law said "but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews." ( "that" = denying the Holcaust)
This is intentionally mischaracterizing the video. Of course Hitchens knows that the holocaust happened, he was just making a point about the need for free speech and expression.
@Jonmad17 Yeah, but if you criticize him he sues you. So much for free speech. He's all for anti semite "historians" but not for a little personal criticism, that's "libel." He's an alcoholic news hound with a huge ego and a big mouth that never shuts up.
@Jonmad17 Does he know that the holocaust happened? Do you? Or, do you just believe the bullshit that has been drilled in you from grade 5 via the jewish designed curriculum, and countless movies, TV shows, magazines, etc., all propagating the Hoax of the 20th Century!
Why are there laws to prevent anyone from even questioning one single aspect of the alleged holocaust?
Why aren't we taught about the Holodomor, the jewish orchestrated starvation of 7-10M Ukrainians in 1932-33...hmm?!
There is too much evidence of the "lie" of the holocaust to just accept the propaganda that is being thrown our way. Is it not a good thing, that after 50 years we might examine the actual fact of this time and get to the truth. The Polish reported that they now believe there were "only" 1 million people that died in the camps. If this is true then what else is true that David Irving is saying?
@angeljX3 people know that jews got arrested etc, but much of them dont believe they got gassed and 6.000.000 were exterminated, i think they have a right to say that and have a right to investigate that freely dont you?
@angeljX3 no they dont. because its a SLAP IN THE FACE to all the people who died and all the people who survived.im sorry but its anti-semitic to deny it.
@PJCelis um..okay? u can be pissed .i did not limit anybody's freedom of speech. i left a comment on the video and someone commented me back. its called having a discussion.
so much for human right of free speech. silencing dissent and censorship is fascist. truth needs no censorship. those who fear truth apply censorship. if the holocaust is true, why would anyone feel threatened by deniers?
"Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus."
Wonderful advice. Hitchens is simply trying to persuade people to be able to argue properly, coherently and convincingly. This has nothing to do with the Holocaust, apart from the fact that when up against lying filth such as David Irving or Robert Faurisson you'd better have an argument beyond "Well, most people believe the Holocaust to be true, so it MUST be true."
Do some research, develop a more powerful argument, impress everyone.
"Wonderful advice. Hitchens is simply trying to persuade people to be able to argue properly, coherently and convincingly"
Listen carefully to the first 10 seconds of the video. Its not a cry for truth, just another denial claim.
Though I concur wholeheartedly with your apt epithets re D.I.etc I see Hitchens as just one more of the same pack, trying to cover up his hate motivated claims with "a quest for truth".
Again I beg to differ in your interpretation. I quote: "What he (the denier) has to say must have taken some effort to come up with," (H.) "some effort"? ignoring irrefutable evidence and hard facts? Its really all a question of motive isn't it. What motive could someone have in denying historical fact? In ignoring evidence, eye witness accounts of both Jews and Nazis? Why would someone devote their life's work to proving Jews are liars? Thats its a Holohoax? The answer is simple.
(I deleted my last comment because I made an embarrassing mistake in it.)
You don't have to convince me that all Holocaust deniers are antisemites. No one with any sense could claim otherwise. Hitchens too is aware of this; he mentions it in another YouTube video on the subject.
His argument here is simple: Holocaust deniers exist, and they need to be fought. How do we fight them? By having an argument stronger than "The Holocaust is historical fact because lots of people say it is."
1 You say: ."No one with any sense...all H deniers are anti-semites" but you then say that a rational argument is the solution. How can you rationalise with someone who's got "no sense" or is "anti semitic".? Or reason with someone who's motive is based on "anti semitism" and hatred?
2.The argument is far stronger than: "the H. is .. fact because ...people say it is". To reduce it so is to make light of overwhelming evidence.
1. OF COURSE we need to rationalise with Holocaust deniers. They are irrational, we are rational. What other options do we have? To murder them rather than argue with them?
2. Yes, I KNOW there is a stronger argument than "lots of people say it is [true]," but many people might be unable to articulate this stronger argument. That is what Hitchens is telling his audience: EDUCATE YOURSELVES. As I originally quoted at the start: "Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus."
Basic difference between our approaches boils down to: Is it worthwhile dealing rationally with H deniers or not.
I think not.
My negative approach is based on the fact that "denial" of any kind comes from an irrational place in the psyche. My view's also based on the fierce hate-motive behind it.
Now: as far as free speech: Hate and racism motivated "free" speech is by definition the antithesis of freedom as it curtails the freedom of others. Speech was free in Nuremburg...
the 1969 book "Myth of the Six Million" by Harvard PhD David Hoggan unmasked how the "holocaust" was fabricated to bury Hitlerism and popularize the military takeover of Germany. Subsequently, the "holocaust" fraud was used to confiscate Palestine and deflect scrutiny away from the numerous extermination operations carried out by the Allies such as the Holodomor, Katyn forest, Bromberg, Danzig, Dresden, Hamburg, Cologne, Royan, Berlin, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the Gulag death camps.
...more H. denial garbage. What can you do, there are always "white trash losers" who will continue to deny the Holocaust no matter what evidence you set before them. Just as well they're are such an insignificant minority. But I guess thats the exact definition of "white trash" - the tiny trashy dregs of society. You watch, he'll be back, bringing what he thinks are brilliant academic sources to support his ludicrous claims.
"These camps were first presented as those in Germany, such as Dachau, Belsen, Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen, and Dora, but it was demonstrated that there had been no systematic extermination in those camps. Attention was then moved on to Auschwitz, Treblinka, Belzec, Chelmno, Jonoska, Tarnow, Ravensbrück, Mauthausen and Birkenau, which does not exhaust the list that appears to have been extended as needed." -- Columbia University professor Harry Elmer Barnes
Even if the Holocaust is a lie - as claimed by a handful of two-bit 'professors' and sniveling antisemities - I still can't understand how a person can admire Nazism, and equivocate their OTHER crimes.
You still have to contend with, to take a couple of examples, the aggressive take-over of neighbouring states, the policies of euthanasia directed against the mentally handicapped, mass murder of Slavs, Poles etc, and using child soldiers when the war was clearly over for you.
" the villains of 1914 were the international Jews and Free Masons, who, he alleged, desired to destroy national states and the Christian religion" ( Harry Elmer Barnes) - who, by the way, is @sellthefake's academic source. Need I say more.
the "holocaust" fraud was designed to replace the story of the Christ as history's greatest example of the difference between good and evil. Obvious as the nose on your face.
How can he possibly deny the Holocaust? Incredible, illogical and just plain stupid. When there are eywitness accounts of victims in the 4 corners of the earth, when Nazi soldiers themselves have told in great detail of the atrocities in the camps. etc etc.
The only 2 possible explanations is 1. he's just plain stupid. 2. He just hates Jews
(I mean - duh!) I think both explanations are correct!
@smike53 the answer to your question is very simple, at no stage does he deny the big H. its cretins like you who deliberately and maliciously misinterpret and lie about his simple contentions ,that factual historical events should be open to debate and genuine discussion, there is no equivalent boycott on academic discussion as in regard to H, in any other field of historical analysis, what CH is simply saying when somebody wants to discuss H , don't start yelling anti-Semitic slanders
Uh? Did I read you correctly? I quote (from this video) "... this Holocaust-I'm not sure even happened, in fact, I'm pretty certain it didnt". Are we watching the same video? Speaking the same language? You say I "Deliberately misinterpret"?? Whats there to interpret?
Your reply shows how ludicrous H.deniers sound! In fact they even deny that they're H.deniers-just after clearly stating that they are! Are we supposed to relate seriously to them-and to their:"scholastic" research?
@smike53 if you carefully listen, C. H. is quoting David I, the British historian at the start of the clip. This clip has been edited in such a way as to take this quote out of context, and try to defame C. H. and of course cretins like you understand this but deliberately perpetrate the false and misleading misinformation to perpetrate your own ends, e.g. anybody who debates the big H, even to defend free speech, should be condemned as a H denier. You should not be afraid of the truth,
I cant believe you're trying to explain away whats so obviously an outright denial. Youre clouding the issue, claiming he was quoting someone else, out of context etc.Not surprised Holocaust denial has been outlawed for the simple reason that its propounders have proved time and time again that have no idea what they're talking about-in which case their claims merely boil down to hate motivated distortion of history.. Proof is this silly argument you're having with me.
the "religion of persecution" is wholly reliant upon the many transparent historical "persecution narratives" or else would disintegrate. The narratives "Fall of Jerusalem", "Exodus" and "Holocaust" are all wrought with fraud.
-
"Power don't come from a badge or a gun. Power comes from lying. Lying big and gettin' the whole damn world to play along with you. Once you've got everybody agreeing with what they know in their hearts ain't true, you've got 'em by the balls." -- 'Sin City' (2005)
If you have woken up to the reality that ISMS are the cause of today's problems, you should be aware that False flags happen all the time to keep people beliving that their lives are at risk and that their way of lives are threatened so people will follow their leaders like sheep thinking they know best.. These people have great power and Knowledge how to keep us as their slaves and anyone who aposses their authority, is assassinated or put in prison. Welcome To The New World ORDER
Since the Roth chillds family and Grand father of Bush Financed Hitler, one should see the bigger picture The Holocaust Did happen with insight to the future. Control of the mass. The new World order is run By The Jews and Macons they control the Banking system and freemarket to protect them selves you create Fear and predudice to protect yourself from those who wish to expose you. Today we have terrorism the root of our problem are ISMS Zionism,Satanism,Socialism,Communism, Capitalism
my honourable Jewish grandfather told me, that truth does not need laws to protect it,
I believe that there is a situation developing in the international community which barricades the full evidence of what happened, until such time that last remaining survivors pass away, then it will use the claim that there are no eyewitnesses left, therefore there is no further discussion, and the truth will be buried
@boruone77 just one other thing, you can see how they have won, when discussion and debate about this matter is marginalised to the Internet, I don't know where in any university or higher learning institution, that independent research has been carried out into this matter, I know of two academics in New Zealand who attempted to write a thesis on this, they were both dismissed, and when one of them got a job at a chemical factory, and the management found out who he was he was dismissed
We are fed complete lies about the Holocaust, 911... fuck if you think about it, every aspect of our lives we are told monumental lies.
And the people who come out and speak anything close to the truth, or even want to debate what the truth is are usually ridiculed, their lives destroyed, and in a lot of cases murdered.
It's a fucked up world we live in folks, ran by complete fucking psychopaths.
I have so much respect for anyone that stands up to the power structure, brave men.
Jew Hitchens is just self serving again , anyone that promotes "holocaust" is promoting a state religion in America and much of the world , just like flat earth dogma of centuries ago. Holocaust is promoted by the media and state just like flat earth dogma and anyone with common sense knows both are ficticious and self serving tools of control by the people controlling such state and media, namely the jews, people like Hitchens.
NO historical event should ever be taboo to question, debate or to independently research.
WE ALL should be free from fear of fines, imprisonment, loss of job, pension and free from physical attack. Only lies and liars have to resort to corrupt courts or coercion to enforce adherence to dogma.
WHY IS IT ILLEGAL to have a different opinion here? To the intellectually honest, obviously – THERE'S SOMETHING TO HIDE.
Because "holocaust" is a state religion in America and promoted by jews as a tool of control .Hitchens claims to be "atheist" but he is promoting American Israeli religion of "holocaust" "wars for democracy" and "terrorism". If Hitchens was a true atheist he would not be a darling of the mainstream jewish controlled media. Hitchens of course is a hypocritical jew who tries to play the other side and then misrepresent it so that a jew side of him can suppress it.
@USraeliTerror True. Hence why I think the Hitch was right in saying there is a need for a full and proper debate, where neither side is silenced and both are allowed to state their arguement, backed with proof, without one side hiding behind mass consensus.
@USraeliTerror Personally I don't sympathise with either group though. The Nazis were just a lesser of two evils. I'm firmly on the middle ground on this - I want to hear your opinion and I will gladly look at the evidence you give me to support your beliefs. If you were able to debate this on a global platform I would welcome it. The trouble is, because of the way we have been forced into not questioning anything related to the holocaust, you are unable to do that. I am for open debate.
@USraeliTerror But what I would say regarding Irving's views, is that I think that although some of what he says may be perfectly true, I do feel that in his old age he has become somewhat 'radicalised' in his views, and I think that he may have overstepped the mark somewhat with his sympathising with the Nazis. It does feel like he has become more Fascist as he has gotten older. That usually is because most old people stop caring what people think of them and speak their mind more...
@USraeliTerror I don't mind if you believe that. I just think it's important for people to know that the Hitch doesn't think this. Kind of felt the way this video was edited together it made it appear like he thinks this, so I just wanted to clarify his position. The Hitch is right - this should be opened up to public debate, like any other issue. The truth will come out that way. At the moment people are afraid to question it, because they fear they will be hated and ridiculed like Irving was.
I'd like to make one thing clear, as I worry that taken out of context, people may see this clip as showing that Hitchens supports Irving's views. He doesn't. Hitchens defended Irving's right to freedom of speech and supported the idea of having an open public debate about Irving's claims, to be proven right or wrong, whichever way the evidence falls. He doesn't actually make those claims himself, nor does he believe them.
@crankkituppx0 Hitchens says that we should not hide behind the false security of a general consensus. He's right. Every opinion, no matter how un-PC it might be, has the right to be held up to a public debate where both sides can put their views across without having their free speech taken away. If Irving really is full of shit, he will be exposed as being. However, at present, all we hear about him is the defamatory attacks from biased parties. Honest debate is the only way to do it.
@crankkituppx0 No-one's saying it didn't. But Hitch is saying questioning ANYTHING should always be allowed. This included. It isn't 100% guaranteed that everything happened the way we in western society have been conditioned to believe it happened. How would we ever uncover any lies if we always accepted what we were told?
"Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus." Perfect sentiment for assessing Jewish losses in WWII or any other beliefs with powerful vested interests promoting them.
Christopher Hitchens is completely right ,on whether or not a particular happened in war or at any other time, only by analysing it, debating it, criticising it, discussing it, I could go on, and on. As a supporter of Israel, I just don't understand why they want to stone wall discussion over the holocaust .D I, has been banned from Australia and Canada, imprisoned in Austria and financially destroyed, for what?because he's got some weird ideas? I know lots of people who got strange beliefs.
Exposing the Holocaust Atrocity War Propaganda is considered a THREAT to Israel. BLACK propaganda was the foundation USED TO ESTABLISH Israel.
Jews have collected BILLIONS in reparations and foreign aid with NO END in sight.
Holocaust indoctrination lies terrorize Jews into sticking together making them feel like eternal victims and so it unifies the tribe and is a great fundraiser. It also is a rally cry for the world to support Jews ignoring their crimes yet ALL based on LIES.
@boruone77 Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pot, etc. had weird ideas too. Yet so did Galileo and Copernicus. Hitler's ideas, when published and propigated, dangerously changed the the world and almost completely wiped out communities of humans in a profoundly devasting fashion. The same could be said of Mao, Stalin, Pot, etc. While I understand the impetus for these laws, I ulitmately believe that we cannot legilstate how people think. And the balance is to be more vigilant rather than restrictive.
@bman342 having an open society, investing greatly in the education of the general population, having a good health and welfare system will prevent in the future extremists from dominating society. Let an educated people think of themselves.intellectually, I really hate it when someone says to me (do you believe in the big H) a lot of J''s and Christians don't even believe in God, why should they ask us to believe in the H. The only thing I believe in is love, the rest must be proven to me
@boruone77 In the past nine months (2010) 19 Palestinian children, some as young as 13, have been shot by Israeli soldiers near the border fence,.reference the UN
@Freethinker12341 again the answer to your question could easily be discovered by listening carefully to CH well thought and well-regarded comments, that historical actual events , should be opened to the type of discussion that goes on every day in history faculties in universities across the world ,why must we look over our shoulders, talk in whispers, or surrender to the well trodden party line in this matter. People should be allowed freely speak about it, simply he does not deny big H
were mostly shot,. The dead bodies we see in the photos of the the camps, these people died from, starvation, disease ( typhoid) and over work, not from poison gas. The Crematorium (ovens) were used to burn the bodies to stop the spread of disease. Education taught in School, Uni, all press, and most book stores is controlled by big buisness money and power, the truth is a threat to this industry.
@scottprestongrant Well Halocaust definition is that Killing of massive amounts of jews. it does not say by Gas Chambers or anyting!. Starvation and overworking still means Halocaust to me. Im no Jew but i can say that is still firmly the Halocaust!
@Peacenowandendhate, Wrong the Holocaust is the killing of 6 million Jews in gas cahmbers. Around 57 million people died in world war 2 from being shot, starvation, bombing, over work disease, etc .None of this has any realation to the Holocaust. Visit a Holocaust Museum its only about the so called 6 million jews. So the other 50 million people who died during the war is not a Holocaust. The Holocaust is the biggest propaganda machine of all time.
The way this video edits in the middle of what Christopher is saying gives the impression that he doesn't think the Holocaust happened the way mainstream historians say it did, instead of Irving. But it seems he is only defending Irving's right to free speech after watching all of it. Whoever has this video should play what is being said a minute or so before this clip instead of cutting into it, so we can determine this.
There is not a single, greater champion of free speech than Hitchens. Such an amazing man. Though I don't agree with irving at all, its disgusting that there are points of views that you can be arrested for.
Hitchens is arguing for "liar rights". Well , I suspect liars do have some rights but all the sane people of the planet have the right to bring these liars into the light of day. The Holocaust is a fact and no amount of neo nazi, white supremacist mumbo jumbo will ever change that. However, I get the message: The Nazi were good...there victims lied. Thanks for sharing.
Thank God Eisenhower made certain that there was sufficient testimony to the truth of ALL the claims about the Holocaust or morons such as you two would have convinced the world that your package of dastardly lies.I know the truth because i lived through it. I was one of the lucky ones, when 62 members of my family were not so lucky, including my own grandparents.Your cute and glib manner and your fine use of the English language does not excuse you for spouting lies about the facts!
Your glib chat is a total lie. I know the truth because i lived it, and am the only one who survived of a family of 62 Jews, the rest were exterminated. You would not recognize the truth if it bit your fat and lazy behind!
@hwgluckman - prove it - you forgot to mention the hungarian uprising of 1921 - the hungarians got a bit upset when the jewish government murdered and tortured 200,000 hungarians - awe but they are ony gentiles - the jews have been hated for 3000 years. not just by nazi s - by every one in europe. hey whats their secret on how to win friends and influence people - it will be worlds worst seller. many many times more people were murdered as a result zionist jews and their communist lies. repent
@jjrizo strange beliefs and weird ideas, in any other field of academic study would never send that individual to prison. Yet when we discuss the H word suddenly people have to start looking over their shoulders,there were two professors in New Zealand that did an academic study on ethnic cleansing during ww2 and made some unfashionable comments about H, they quickly lost their jobs, and when one was employed at a chemical company after the employers found out his past, he was then fired again
@hwgluckman So you don't believe in free speech? Or you only believe in it if it doesn't offend anyone? I really hope you don't live in the United States, because you certainly aren't an American.
It's possible that you're misunderstanding the video - he's quoting someone else at the beginning. I could see how not knowing that would change your understanding of the video.
A man full of courage. Respect !
Matthias3388 1 month ago
Carefully edited and out of context - The late great Hitch is defending David Irving's right to speech.
nmw14bt 2 months ago
19 Palestinian children killed is a tragedy, yes, assuming you are correct in that, which I am not sure of, however I am sure that the Palestians have used suicide bombers to kill many innocent people and the number they have killed is far more than 19
beet74 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There were 11 million people killed by the Nazi by various means, of that number, 6 million were Jews. The Nazi"s "Final Solution" or "Die Endlösung" was clear to any rational thinking person. They intended to wipe out the Jewish people and rid the world of them. David Irving in a court of law said "but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews." ( "that" = denying the Holcaust)
beet74 3 months ago
From a man who sues anyone who criticizes him. Hypocrite. Asshole. I am an atheist and I dislike this muck-raking journalist slug.
amaxamon 5 months ago
JJrizo, what a fuckwit you are.
QwidgyboMan 6 months ago
This is intentionally mischaracterizing the video. Of course Hitchens knows that the holocaust happened, he was just making a point about the need for free speech and expression.
Jonmad17 6 months ago
@Jonmad17 Yeah, but if you criticize him he sues you. So much for free speech. He's all for anti semite "historians" but not for a little personal criticism, that's "libel." He's an alcoholic news hound with a huge ego and a big mouth that never shuts up.
amaxamon 5 months ago
@Jonmad17 Does he know that the holocaust happened? Do you? Or, do you just believe the bullshit that has been drilled in you from grade 5 via the jewish designed curriculum, and countless movies, TV shows, magazines, etc., all propagating the Hoax of the 20th Century!
Why are there laws to prevent anyone from even questioning one single aspect of the alleged holocaust?
Why aren't we taught about the Holodomor, the jewish orchestrated starvation of 7-10M Ukrainians in 1932-33...hmm?!
Bongofury361 3 weeks ago
this is a quote mine
kevycanavan 6 months ago
This isn't Christopher Hitchen's views, if you watch the whole video (elsewhere on youtube), he is paraphrasing David Irving's views.
GalacticMuppet 6 months ago 2
this isnt what hitchens really says if u watch the whole fing
timetochilli 9 months ago 2
Auschwitz has downgraded the number killed from 4 millions to 1 million but the overall figure of 6 million remains, how can this be?
thecubanism 9 months ago
There is too much evidence of the "lie" of the holocaust to just accept the propaganda that is being thrown our way. Is it not a good thing, that after 50 years we might examine the actual fact of this time and get to the truth. The Polish reported that they now believe there were "only" 1 million people that died in the camps. If this is true then what else is true that David Irving is saying?
TheAlmck 9 months ago
how do people question the holocaust? like have u not seen the pictures, videos, and heard the testimonies???
angeljX3 10 months ago
@angeljX3 people know that jews got arrested etc, but much of them dont believe they got gassed and 6.000.000 were exterminated, i think they have a right to say that and have a right to investigate that freely dont you?
salamanderjood 10 months ago
@angeljX3 no they dont. because its a SLAP IN THE FACE to all the people who died and all the people who survived.im sorry but its anti-semitic to deny it.
angeljX3 10 months ago
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PJCelis 9 months ago
@PJCelis what?!...please dont tell me that ur a holocaust denier as well.
angeljX3 9 months ago
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PJCelis 9 months ago
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angeljX3 9 months ago
@PJCelis um..okay? u can be pissed .i did not limit anybody's freedom of speech. i left a comment on the video and someone commented me back. its called having a discussion.
angeljX3 9 months ago
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PJCelis 9 months ago
@PJCelis i fully support teaching about the holocaust in schools and everywhere.teaching everybody about what REALLY happened.
angeljX3 9 months ago
so much for human right of free speech. silencing dissent and censorship is fascist. truth needs no censorship. those who fear truth apply censorship. if the holocaust is true, why would anyone feel threatened by deniers?
sherhak 11 months ago
So sick of jews...........they seem to cause misery in everything they touch....maybe Hitler was right
gusswilliams 11 months ago
@gusswilliams He was: /watch?v=f0FMJJwN0Jk
redcorona14 11 months ago
Hitchens is not denying the holocaust. He is saying it is incorrect to deny those that say it the freedom to speak. I don't like this clip up of it.
trocknickel 1 year ago
"Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus."
Wonderful advice. Hitchens is simply trying to persuade people to be able to argue properly, coherently and convincingly. This has nothing to do with the Holocaust, apart from the fact that when up against lying filth such as David Irving or Robert Faurisson you'd better have an argument beyond "Well, most people believe the Holocaust to be true, so it MUST be true."
Do some research, develop a more powerful argument, impress everyone.
terratrema 1 year ago
@terratrema
"Wonderful advice. Hitchens is simply trying to persuade people to be able to argue properly, coherently and convincingly"
Listen carefully to the first 10 seconds of the video. Its not a cry for truth, just another denial claim.
Though I concur wholeheartedly with your apt epithets re D.I.etc I see Hitchens as just one more of the same pack, trying to cover up his hate motivated claims with "a quest for truth".
smike53 1 year ago
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terratrema 11 months ago
@terratrema
Again I beg to differ in your interpretation. I quote: "What he (the denier) has to say must have taken some effort to come up with," (H.) "some effort"? ignoring irrefutable evidence and hard facts? Its really all a question of motive isn't it. What motive could someone have in denying historical fact? In ignoring evidence, eye witness accounts of both Jews and Nazis? Why would someone devote their life's work to proving Jews are liars? Thats its a Holohoax? The answer is simple.
smike53 11 months ago
@smike53
(I deleted my last comment because I made an embarrassing mistake in it.)
You don't have to convince me that all Holocaust deniers are antisemites. No one with any sense could claim otherwise. Hitchens too is aware of this; he mentions it in another YouTube video on the subject.
His argument here is simple: Holocaust deniers exist, and they need to be fought. How do we fight them? By having an argument stronger than "The Holocaust is historical fact because lots of people say it is."
terratrema 11 months ago
@terratrema
Your comment is very contradictory.
1 You say: ."No one with any sense...all H deniers are anti-semites" but you then say that a rational argument is the solution. How can you rationalise with someone who's got "no sense" or is "anti semitic".? Or reason with someone who's motive is based on "anti semitism" and hatred?
2.The argument is far stronger than: "the H. is .. fact because ...people say it is". To reduce it so is to make light of overwhelming evidence.
smike53 11 months ago
@smike53
1. OF COURSE we need to rationalise with Holocaust deniers. They are irrational, we are rational. What other options do we have? To murder them rather than argue with them?
2. Yes, I KNOW there is a stronger argument than "lots of people say it is [true]," but many people might be unable to articulate this stronger argument. That is what Hitchens is telling his audience: EDUCATE YOURSELVES. As I originally quoted at the start: "Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus."
terratrema 11 months ago
@terratrema
Basic difference between our approaches boils down to: Is it worthwhile dealing rationally with H deniers or not.
I think not.
My negative approach is based on the fact that "denial" of any kind comes from an irrational place in the psyche. My view's also based on the fierce hate-motive behind it.
Now: as far as free speech: Hate and racism motivated "free" speech is by definition the antithesis of freedom as it curtails the freedom of others. Speech was free in Nuremburg...
smike53 11 months ago
the 1969 book "Myth of the Six Million" by Harvard PhD David Hoggan unmasked how the "holocaust" was fabricated to bury Hitlerism and popularize the military takeover of Germany. Subsequently, the "holocaust" fraud was used to confiscate Palestine and deflect scrutiny away from the numerous extermination operations carried out by the Allies such as the Holodomor, Katyn forest, Bromberg, Danzig, Dresden, Hamburg, Cologne, Royan, Berlin, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the Gulag death camps.
SellTheFake 1 year ago
@SellTheFake
...more H. denial garbage. What can you do, there are always "white trash losers" who will continue to deny the Holocaust no matter what evidence you set before them. Just as well they're are such an insignificant minority. But I guess thats the exact definition of "white trash" - the tiny trashy dregs of society. You watch, he'll be back, bringing what he thinks are brilliant academic sources to support his ludicrous claims.
smike53 1 year ago
"These camps were first presented as those in Germany, such as Dachau, Belsen, Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen, and Dora, but it was demonstrated that there had been no systematic extermination in those camps. Attention was then moved on to Auschwitz, Treblinka, Belzec, Chelmno, Jonoska, Tarnow, Ravensbrück, Mauthausen and Birkenau, which does not exhaust the list that appears to have been extended as needed." -- Columbia University professor Harry Elmer Barnes
SellTheFake 1 year ago
@SellTheFake
Even if the Holocaust is a lie - as claimed by a handful of two-bit 'professors' and sniveling antisemities - I still can't understand how a person can admire Nazism, and equivocate their OTHER crimes.
You still have to contend with, to take a couple of examples, the aggressive take-over of neighbouring states, the policies of euthanasia directed against the mentally handicapped, mass murder of Slavs, Poles etc, and using child soldiers when the war was clearly over for you.
terratrema 1 year ago
Hitler and the Nazis saved perhaps 500 million people from the Soviet bullet to the back of the head.
SellTheFake 1 year ago
@SellTheFake
...I told you so...
" the villains of 1914 were the international Jews and Free Masons, who, he alleged, desired to destroy national states and the Christian religion" ( Harry Elmer Barnes) - who, by the way, is @sellthefake's academic source. Need I say more.
smike53 1 year ago
the "holocaust" fraud was designed to replace the story of the Christ as history's greatest example of the difference between good and evil. Obvious as the nose on your face.
SellTheFake 1 year ago
@SellTheFake
if I'd known you were going to talk such utter garbage i wouldnt have bothered.
Ignore this weirdo guys - he's just another troll.
smike53 1 year ago
you deserve to be the communist slave that Hitler prevented you from becoming thru all of his courageous actions.
SellTheFake 1 year ago
How can he possibly deny the Holocaust? Incredible, illogical and just plain stupid. When there are eywitness accounts of victims in the 4 corners of the earth, when Nazi soldiers themselves have told in great detail of the atrocities in the camps. etc etc.
The only 2 possible explanations is 1. he's just plain stupid. 2. He just hates Jews
(I mean - duh!) I think both explanations are correct!
smike53 1 year ago
@smike53 the answer to your question is very simple, at no stage does he deny the big H. its cretins like you who deliberately and maliciously misinterpret and lie about his simple contentions ,that factual historical events should be open to debate and genuine discussion, there is no equivalent boycott on academic discussion as in regard to H, in any other field of historical analysis, what CH is simply saying when somebody wants to discuss H , don't start yelling anti-Semitic slanders
boruone77 1 year ago
@boruone77
Uh? Did I read you correctly? I quote (from this video) "... this Holocaust-I'm not sure even happened, in fact, I'm pretty certain it didnt". Are we watching the same video? Speaking the same language? You say I "Deliberately misinterpret"?? Whats there to interpret?
Your reply shows how ludicrous H.deniers sound! In fact they even deny that they're H.deniers-just after clearly stating that they are! Are we supposed to relate seriously to them-and to their:"scholastic" research?
smike53 1 year ago
@smike53 if you carefully listen, C. H. is quoting David I, the British historian at the start of the clip. This clip has been edited in such a way as to take this quote out of context, and try to defame C. H. and of course cretins like you understand this but deliberately perpetrate the false and misleading misinformation to perpetrate your own ends, e.g. anybody who debates the big H, even to defend free speech, should be condemned as a H denier. You should not be afraid of the truth,
boruone77 1 year ago
@boruone77
I cant believe you're trying to explain away whats so obviously an outright denial. Youre clouding the issue, claiming he was quoting someone else, out of context etc.Not surprised Holocaust denial has been outlawed for the simple reason that its propounders have proved time and time again that have no idea what they're talking about-in which case their claims merely boil down to hate motivated distortion of history.. Proof is this silly argument you're having with me.
smike53 1 year ago
the "religion of persecution" is wholly reliant upon the many transparent historical "persecution narratives" or else would disintegrate. The narratives "Fall of Jerusalem", "Exodus" and "Holocaust" are all wrought with fraud.
-
"Power don't come from a badge or a gun. Power comes from lying. Lying big and gettin' the whole damn world to play along with you. Once you've got everybody agreeing with what they know in their hearts ain't true, you've got 'em by the balls." -- 'Sin City' (2005)
SellTheFake 1 year ago
insurance job
timewilltell7 1 year ago
If you have woken up to the reality that ISMS are the cause of today's problems, you should be aware that False flags happen all the time to keep people beliving that their lives are at risk and that their way of lives are threatened so people will follow their leaders like sheep thinking they know best.. These people have great power and Knowledge how to keep us as their slaves and anyone who aposses their authority, is assassinated or put in prison. Welcome To The New World ORDER
epsilon936 1 year ago
Since the Roth chillds family and Grand father of Bush Financed Hitler, one should see the bigger picture The Holocaust Did happen with insight to the future. Control of the mass. The new World order is run By The Jews and Macons they control the Banking system and freemarket to protect them selves you create Fear and predudice to protect yourself from those who wish to expose you. Today we have terrorism the root of our problem are ISMS Zionism,Satanism,Socialism,Communism, Capitalism
epsilon936 1 year ago
FINALLY HITCHINS SHOWS SOME CLASS!
SNOOOOOO8 1 year ago
my honourable Jewish grandfather told me, that truth does not need laws to protect it,
I believe that there is a situation developing in the international community which barricades the full evidence of what happened, until such time that last remaining survivors pass away, then it will use the claim that there are no eyewitnesses left, therefore there is no further discussion, and the truth will be buried
boruone77 1 year ago
@boruone77 just one other thing, you can see how they have won, when discussion and debate about this matter is marginalised to the Internet, I don't know where in any university or higher learning institution, that independent research has been carried out into this matter, I know of two academics in New Zealand who attempted to write a thesis on this, they were both dismissed, and when one of them got a job at a chemical factory, and the management found out who he was he was dismissed
boruone77 1 year ago
We are fed complete lies about the Holocaust, 911... fuck if you think about it, every aspect of our lives we are told monumental lies.
And the people who come out and speak anything close to the truth, or even want to debate what the truth is are usually ridiculed, their lives destroyed, and in a lot of cases murdered.
It's a fucked up world we live in folks, ran by complete fucking psychopaths.
I have so much respect for anyone that stands up to the power structure, brave men.
BLAGASPANTS 1 year ago
Awsome video. Glad someone like this is finally speaking up
daizee106 1 year ago
Jew Hitchens is just self serving again , anyone that promotes "holocaust" is promoting a state religion in America and much of the world , just like flat earth dogma of centuries ago. Holocaust is promoted by the media and state just like flat earth dogma and anyone with common sense knows both are ficticious and self serving tools of control by the people controlling such state and media, namely the jews, people like Hitchens.
gledalac1979 1 year ago 3
@gledalac1979 Hence Holocaustianity, the moral icon of the Western world.
BouncePounce 1 year ago
TRUTH IS A RADICAL IDEA TO AN INDOCTRINATED MIND!
NO historical event should ever be taboo to question, debate or to independently research.
WE ALL should be free from fear of fines, imprisonment, loss of job, pension and free from physical attack. Only lies and liars have to resort to corrupt courts or coercion to enforce adherence to dogma.
WHY IS IT ILLEGAL to have a different opinion here? To the intellectually honest, obviously – THERE'S SOMETHING TO HIDE.
LaydeeLiberty1234 1 year ago
@LaydeeLiberty1234
Because "holocaust" is a state religion in America and promoted by jews as a tool of control .Hitchens claims to be "atheist" but he is promoting American Israeli religion of "holocaust" "wars for democracy" and "terrorism". If Hitchens was a true atheist he would not be a darling of the mainstream jewish controlled media. Hitchens of course is a hypocritical jew who tries to play the other side and then misrepresent it so that a jew side of him can suppress it.
gledalac1979 1 year ago 8
Comment removed
LaydeeLiberty1234 1 year ago
@USraeliTerror True. Hence why I think the Hitch was right in saying there is a need for a full and proper debate, where neither side is silenced and both are allowed to state their arguement, backed with proof, without one side hiding behind mass consensus.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@USraeliTerror Personally I don't sympathise with either group though. The Nazis were just a lesser of two evils. I'm firmly on the middle ground on this - I want to hear your opinion and I will gladly look at the evidence you give me to support your beliefs. If you were able to debate this on a global platform I would welcome it. The trouble is, because of the way we have been forced into not questioning anything related to the holocaust, you are unable to do that. I am for open debate.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@USraeliTerror But what I would say regarding Irving's views, is that I think that although some of what he says may be perfectly true, I do feel that in his old age he has become somewhat 'radicalised' in his views, and I think that he may have overstepped the mark somewhat with his sympathising with the Nazis. It does feel like he has become more Fascist as he has gotten older. That usually is because most old people stop caring what people think of them and speak their mind more...
DancinJim 1 year ago
@USraeliTerror I don't mind if you believe that. I just think it's important for people to know that the Hitch doesn't think this. Kind of felt the way this video was edited together it made it appear like he thinks this, so I just wanted to clarify his position. The Hitch is right - this should be opened up to public debate, like any other issue. The truth will come out that way. At the moment people are afraid to question it, because they fear they will be hated and ridiculed like Irving was.
DancinJim 1 year ago
I'd like to make one thing clear, as I worry that taken out of context, people may see this clip as showing that Hitchens supports Irving's views. He doesn't. Hitchens defended Irving's right to freedom of speech and supported the idea of having an open public debate about Irving's claims, to be proven right or wrong, whichever way the evidence falls. He doesn't actually make those claims himself, nor does he believe them.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@dancinjim questioning anything is not wrong. but why question this if you know it is true?
crankkituppx0 1 year ago
@crankkituppx0 Hitchens says that we should not hide behind the false security of a general consensus. He's right. Every opinion, no matter how un-PC it might be, has the right to be held up to a public debate where both sides can put their views across without having their free speech taken away. If Irving really is full of shit, he will be exposed as being. However, at present, all we hear about him is the defamatory attacks from biased parties. Honest debate is the only way to do it.
DancinJim 1 year ago
this is ridicilous. this topic should not even be questionable or debatable. the holocaust happened.
crankkituppx0 1 year ago
@crankkituppx0 No-one's saying it didn't. But Hitch is saying questioning ANYTHING should always be allowed. This included. It isn't 100% guaranteed that everything happened the way we in western society have been conditioned to believe it happened. How would we ever uncover any lies if we always accepted what we were told?
DancinJim 1 year ago
The holocaust story has been falling apart for a long time
of course the jews were treated terribly by the Nazi - and they were murdered by the thousands
there just wasnt 6 million killed and there is no proof of gas chambers
Thats why people are destroyed or jailed for saying so
Take away the holocaust and you take away Israel's right to exist.
Painfully simple but true.
spacehopperballs 1 year ago
"Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus." Perfect sentiment for assessing Jewish losses in WWII or any other beliefs with powerful vested interests promoting them.
HarryBallbag 1 year ago
Christopher Hitchens is completely right ,on whether or not a particular happened in war or at any other time, only by analysing it, debating it, criticising it, discussing it, I could go on, and on. As a supporter of Israel, I just don't understand why they want to stone wall discussion over the holocaust .D I, has been banned from Australia and Canada, imprisoned in Austria and financially destroyed, for what?because he's got some weird ideas? I know lots of people who got strange beliefs.
boruone77 1 year ago 19
@boruone
Exposing the Holocaust Atrocity War Propaganda is considered a THREAT to Israel. BLACK propaganda was the foundation USED TO ESTABLISH Israel.
Jews have collected BILLIONS in reparations and foreign aid with NO END in sight.
Holocaust indoctrination lies terrorize Jews into sticking together making them feel like eternal victims and so it unifies the tribe and is a great fundraiser. It also is a rally cry for the world to support Jews ignoring their crimes yet ALL based on LIES.
LaydeeLiberty1234 1 year ago
@boruone77 Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pot, etc. had weird ideas too. Yet so did Galileo and Copernicus. Hitler's ideas, when published and propigated, dangerously changed the the world and almost completely wiped out communities of humans in a profoundly devasting fashion. The same could be said of Mao, Stalin, Pot, etc. While I understand the impetus for these laws, I ulitmately believe that we cannot legilstate how people think. And the balance is to be more vigilant rather than restrictive.
bman342 1 year ago
@bman342 having an open society, investing greatly in the education of the general population, having a good health and welfare system will prevent in the future extremists from dominating society. Let an educated people think of themselves.intellectually, I really hate it when someone says to me (do you believe in the big H) a lot of J''s and Christians don't even believe in God, why should they ask us to believe in the H. The only thing I believe in is love, the rest must be proven to me
boruone77 1 year ago
@boruone77 In the past nine months (2010) 19 Palestinian children, some as young as 13, have been shot by Israeli soldiers near the border fence,.reference the UN
boruone77 1 year ago 6
@boruone77 does hitch deny the holocaust?
Freethinker12341 1 year ago
@Freethinker12341 again the answer to your question could easily be discovered by listening carefully to CH well thought and well-regarded comments, that historical actual events , should be opened to the type of discussion that goes on every day in history faculties in universities across the world ,why must we look over our shoulders, talk in whispers, or surrender to the well trodden party line in this matter. People should be allowed freely speak about it, simply he does not deny big H
boruone77 1 year ago
The Holocaust is big buisness for the state of Israel big buisness. Of course it didn't happen.
scottprestongrant 1 year ago
@scottprestongrant Halocaust was real!! what about the Gas Chambers? Hitler?
Peacenowandendhate 1 year ago
@Peacenowandendhate There were no gas chamber. Jews killed by the Germans
were mostly shot,. The dead bodies we see in the photos of the the camps, these people died from, starvation, disease ( typhoid) and over work, not from poison gas. The Crematorium (ovens) were used to burn the bodies to stop the spread of disease. Education taught in School, Uni, all press, and most book stores is controlled by big buisness money and power, the truth is a threat to this industry.
scottprestongrant 1 year ago
@scottprestongrant Still Called the Halocaust!. Being Shot at/Being killed in Gas Chambers Same thing. makes no difference!
Peacenowandendhate 1 year ago
@scottprestongrant Well Halocaust definition is that Killing of massive amounts of jews. it does not say by Gas Chambers or anyting!. Starvation and overworking still means Halocaust to me. Im no Jew but i can say that is still firmly the Halocaust!
Peacenowandendhate 1 year ago
@Peacenowandendhate, Wrong the Holocaust is the killing of 6 million Jews in gas cahmbers. Around 57 million people died in world war 2 from being shot, starvation, bombing, over work disease, etc .None of this has any realation to the Holocaust. Visit a Holocaust Museum its only about the so called 6 million jews. So the other 50 million people who died during the war is not a Holocaust. The Holocaust is the biggest propaganda machine of all time.
scottprestongrant 1 year ago
@Peacenowandendhate 152,000 jews were shot by the Germans during the war.
Many Germans died from Starvation during the war, and disease, not just Jews.
Jews are smart people who have big money and power, they control many things.
scottprestongrant 1 year ago
The way this video edits in the middle of what Christopher is saying gives the impression that he doesn't think the Holocaust happened the way mainstream historians say it did, instead of Irving. But it seems he is only defending Irving's right to free speech after watching all of it. Whoever has this video should play what is being said a minute or so before this clip instead of cutting into it, so we can determine this.
gur2ys4me 1 year ago
God I love Christopher *Hitchens*.
There is not a single, greater champion of free speech than Hitchens. Such an amazing man. Though I don't agree with irving at all, its disgusting that there are points of views that you can be arrested for.
Mccnuget 1 year ago 3
Rizzzzzzzzi, once again you are wrong. You must have been dumped by a Jewish fiance this time, that would explain your newfound hatred of jews!
sdclams 1 year ago
Christopher Hitchens, yeah, real trustworthy...he's a jew too~
notallgoysarestupid 1 year ago
@notallgoysarestupid HALOCAUST DID HAPPEN AND THE MUSLIMS ARE GOING TO SUFFER!
Peacenowandendhate 1 year ago
There is one thing, that I can´t understand.
Until the 1960s they told us that in concentration-camp Dachau Millions of persons have been gassed.
But today there is a sign at the showerheads in the "gas-chambers" that says "never been in use"...
So what?
bavarikus 2 years ago
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell, 1903-1950
1941=15,748,091 jews
1944=15,192,089 jews
1948=15,688,259 jews
MaxSpaTemp104 1 year ago 6
@MaxSpaTemp104 -
Old Maths (15 - 6 = 9)
New Maths (15 - 6 = 16)
:-)))
Take care ... don´t let your brain being washed.
bavarikus 1 year ago
Hitchens is arguing for "liar rights". Well , I suspect liars do have some rights but all the sane people of the planet have the right to bring these liars into the light of day. The Holocaust is a fact and no amount of neo nazi, white supremacist mumbo jumbo will ever change that. However, I get the message: The Nazi were good...there victims lied. Thanks for sharing.
AgouraMo 2 years ago
national socialism - is far superior to communism
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
MASTERRACE19 2 years ago
i didnt know hitchens is that brave but one day the truth will come out anyway
its only a matter of time
rogvr781 2 years ago
Thank God Eisenhower made certain that there was sufficient testimony to the truth of ALL the claims about the Holocaust or morons such as you two would have convinced the world that your package of dastardly lies.I know the truth because i lived through it. I was one of the lucky ones, when 62 members of my family were not so lucky, including my own grandparents.Your cute and glib manner and your fine use of the English language does not excuse you for spouting lies about the facts!
hwgluckman 2 years ago
@hwgluckman
Eisenhower never went to Auschwitz.
JimmySmers 1 year ago
The greatest dose of bullshit i have ever heard. But then they say that the loudest noise emanates from an empty barrel!
hwgluckman 2 years ago
So are you the empty barrel?
jjrizo 2 years ago 15
@jjrizo
Your glib chat is a total lie. I know the truth because i lived it, and am the only one who survived of a family of 62 Jews, the rest were exterminated. You would not recognize the truth if it bit your fat and lazy behind!
hwgluckman 2 years ago
@hwgluckman - prove it - you forgot to mention the hungarian uprising of 1921 - the hungarians got a bit upset when the jewish government murdered and tortured 200,000 hungarians - awe but they are ony gentiles - the jews have been hated for 3000 years. not just by nazi s - by every one in europe. hey whats their secret on how to win friends and influence people - it will be worlds worst seller. many many times more people were murdered as a result zionist jews and their communist lies. repent
MASTERRACE19 2 years ago
He´s the vacuum barrel :-)
bavarikus 2 years ago
@jjrizo strange beliefs and weird ideas, in any other field of academic study would never send that individual to prison. Yet when we discuss the H word suddenly people have to start looking over their shoulders,there were two professors in New Zealand that did an academic study on ethnic cleansing during ww2 and made some unfashionable comments about H, they quickly lost their jobs, and when one was employed at a chemical company after the employers found out his past, he was then fired again
boruone77 1 year ago
@jjrizo
what a silly comment.
smike53 1 year ago
@hwgluckman you are wrong
alanbstard4 11 months ago
@hwgluckman So you don't believe in free speech? Or you only believe in it if it doesn't offend anyone? I really hope you don't live in the United States, because you certainly aren't an American.
It's possible that you're misunderstanding the video - he's quoting someone else at the beginning. I could see how not knowing that would change your understanding of the video.
oberonmsu 10 months ago
"Ninety-nine per cent of what we know, we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove."
A case for letting nature take back Auschwitz
Robert van Pelt
thestar. com 12.27.09
mandelbaums 2 years ago