this causes micro fractures to ur bones.. and in return the bone repairs after some days gettin stronger and harder. like when u cut ir nails. they grow. and in bodybuilding u tear muscle fibres inside and when u take good diet and rest they grow bigger and.stronger.
there are dosens of karateka's doing this but the tool here is almost useless - it almost doesn't absorbing any energy which is the main purpose of the kind. This here makes two things: noise and joints damage. No offence.
@mastichka You’re wrong....When you have been doing this for years as the Grandmaster here, the next level up is to remove absorption little at a time. At this point he only requires the little absorption that the wrapped rope provides.
I can't hear when he says to properly condition them, do you have to do a lot of reps of hitting hard??? and between what??your knuckles as well?? thank you
@warriorfire8103 nope he is doing reverse knifehand to a pad on a post, it's hard to do but not the same as hitting the bare post. He can do that at his level, his hands are very strong! I'd have to work up to that!
actually this type of training along with squeezing stressballs can make your bones stronger and joints stronger, if youre already a fighter this when done correctly can be a protective measure to keep your bones and joints from getting hurt or breaking as theyll be conditioned and strengthened over time. some people get arthritis without even injuring bones and joints FYI. this can also help in a street fight as your knuckles do in fact become much harder and dense over time
This is retarded you don't condition your hand by building up calluses thats just stupid and its not medically safe.There are other ways to condition your hand without causing damage or disfigurment to your hands.Totally irresponsible for someone to put up one of these video's.Absolutely shocking.
agree 100% they have resistance bars specifically for building hand strength and you go up in numbers as your hands get stronger, this guy may have hands of steel but in 20 years he will be in severe pqin on a daily basis.
@pokerace420 um.... hes in his 50s or 60s here... if his hands were gonna start bothering him id think it would be right now thats pretty old but hes not even affected so im not sure if he will be in anymore pain than a regular 80 year old if anything all the training he did would make him more resistant to pain lol
To the people making the arthritis comments - Proper iron palm training calls for the use of medicinal massage liniments and gradual progression which prevents injury/arthritis. People I know who have done it are getting older now, they still do massage therapy and play guitar; don't show any signs of arthritis.
I remember back in the 1980's Hee Il Cho smashing the breeze block wall at a seminar i attended and a squillion young impressionable martial artists thought it was the way to go...It ain't necessary. Develop your techniques, that's more important. Cross train in other styles, get in the ring from time to time and don't be intimidated by your instructors politics. You are free to do what you want where you want to do it. Most of all don't listen to anyone who tells you their style is best.
I do NOT wish to be included in the flame war that is going over this video, so please leave me out of it. I do, however, have some points to make. GM Cho is now 70 years old and has no discernable arthritis. He is an outstanding instructor and was a superb fighter in his youth. His skill level is still very high. ephasm-are you sure that nobody in the AIMAA has done any fighting worth respecting? I am just asking and I am not taking sides against you.
@chitah6 I'm positive - have a look and see if you can find any sort of record. "master" ameris makes a lot of big noises about how hardcore he is but he's never actually fought in a full contact fight outside of TKD and sorry guys, TKD full contact is about as softcore as full cotnact can go. He once said he was gonna enter UFC back in the day, trained for a couple of months with a couple of semi decent MMA fighters then made a bunch of excuses and left.
@ephasm I am sure there are plenty of AIMAA guys that would very gladly spar with you. Which one of the ones in your sparring videos is you? Have you been training in Muay Thai for very long? Who is your instructor and who are they under? I am just being inquisitive.
@chitah6 I used to train with em years ago lol. I'd happily spar with em as well. I'm the slightly taller one with the mohawk. I've been training at Sit Ayuthaya in Hamilton for 4 - 5 years. Muay Thai doesn't have "lineages" and stuff like that - it's more closely run like boxing.
For the record, regardless of what the TKD AIMAA nuthuggers believe, this WILL give you arthritis. "Grandmaster" Cho has no idea about fighting anyways so why bother?
@kenseisato1989 Except if you're not careful in treating your hand properly, you'll do more damage to your hands in nerve damage and arthritis. That's why in kungfu they use dit da jow to heal the hands and prevent this kind of damage.
@kenseisato1989 Dit Da Jow is a liniment used to heal your hands and prevent damage including nerve and tissue damage, cuts, and swelling; making sure that your hand is ok. For more info look on wikipedia or type Dit Da Jow into a search engine. If you're wondering where you can get some, just walk into China town, go to a traditional chinese medicine shop and ask for Dit Da Jow.
and also i looked it up on some sites and theres different kind of Did Da Jow. witch one will be best for hand conditioning, and also does Jow make it so that you get nice callus?
This causes ARTHRITIS!!! Joint damage and disfigurement! Don't do these. Leave your bones as is, it'll get brittle as you get older. So keep those silky smooth hands and fine bones untouched so guys like them can break you and you wonder why you ever started the art.
This is pretty cool, but I went with somewhat of a different approach to conditioning. I started with punching chick peas inside of a canvas bag, used this to do my back hand and wrists too, moved on to steel ball bearings mixed in with jagged stones. For my knife hand I just slam it against anything which looks painful or solid enough. My friends don't like to contact spar with me these days...
25 years ago, I modeled my back kick after Cho. My instructor in the same organization explained that the hands are delicate instruments meant for art. I play music where speed and dexterity are neccesary to be proficiant so I prefer to break with my feet. Every art has its price.
you condition your knuckles for protection of your hand as well as to have a heavy hand which damages your opponent. Well I do anyways. SUre power comes from the core and good fighters do conditioning as insulation. But it's offense as well as defense.
Is a 20 year practitioner of iron fist who breaks piles of bricks with no spacers "fucking retarded"??? he aint doin it just to prevetn injury bro, those fists are deadly...
@SuperSneakySteve Oddly enough, he's actually stated that while techniques like this can lead to arthritis, he hasn't gotten it after training for years and years doing this.
@krypekeeper it most certainly fucking does. why the hell do you tihnk boxers wrap their hands in training as well and not just for a fight? Because it gives you fucking arthritis. Theres a whole lot of old school boxers out there with bad arthritis because of the amount of training they've done in their younger years with poor wraps or innadequate gloves. And these are people who punch a hell of a lot better than anyone in AIMAA.
@krypekeeper Ooohh wow you sure showed me.... Why bother arguing when all you've clearly got any knowledge of is TKD? You obviously know fuck all and believe everything they tell you. Word of advice mate: aint nobody in AIMAA who's done any kind of fighting worth respecting, think on that before you hero worship them.
@ephasm um i dont really want to be a part of this arguement you got going on but i just wanted to let you know that boxers wrap their hands to protect the many bones in their hand from breaking. boxers dont condition their hands the way a traditional martial artist does because they wear gloves anyway when they fight. traditional martial artists believe that they must be ready at any time. its really just a difference in philosophies. and just to tell you, cho doesnt have arthritis.
@ttam142 I come from one such area and I know many people who're in trouble EVERY weekend in life witohut any sort of hand injuries and I've even had a few scrapes myself because you can't live in an area like mine and avoid it totally. Wow, lookee lookee, my glass hands that I've recieved from boxing and thai boxing have never broken. And you don't train anything in striking that beats what I do in thai boxing and that involves clinch work. I still wrap my hands.
@ephasm haha this is my last reply to you but has anyone ever told you youre a hater?accept that there are other styles besides muay thai(wich i respect very much).you went from arguing about arthritis(where you were proven wrong) to arguing how all of tkd sucks and how your a badass. And have you ever tried asking your instructors why you wrap your hands? they will tell you something to the effect of its to protect them. i never said boxers were weak but boxing is and always was a sport.
@ttam142 Lol i make those posts and all you see is the one small comment at the very end where I say that nothing you do technique wise beats what I do in thai boxing and all you see is me saying it's better. Stop being a moron and actually pay attention. It makes complete sense in the context it's used. You talk about how you don't wrap your hands because you have all sorts of fancy hand techniques that require no wrapping? Well we wrap and you don't do anything we cant beat.
@lsnowboardl i said boxing. not muay thai. boxing started in greece as a sport in the same way wrestling did. and your right that muay thai got its roots from muay boran, but we are unsure of muay borans specific roots though we know it was used by early siamese warriors because of attacks by neighboring countries and tribes.
@ephasm forgot to add in my previous post that boxers also wrap their hands to keep their wrists from moving too much. in a martial art such taekwondo, there are many techniques wich require you to be able to move your hands more.
@ttam142 Mate I've heard all that before - it's the usual crap that's told to TMA guys who have no knowledge of what it's like to actually box. They seem to labour under the misconception that boxers, thai boxers, MMA guys etc. all have glass hands cos "they train for sport, WE train for da ZTREET!". It's a load of bollocks. What about the thousands of people all over the world who routinely fight every weekend outside a bar and don't break their hands?
I laughed so hard when I read your post ..hahahaha SO TRUE ! Poor Mister Cho....still wrestling with his ego...and the need to prove how antique his thinking is...at his age improving on his arthritis....Alheimer's is next !
Everyone below me in the flame war are fucking retarded...you dont condition your knuckles to punch harder or stronger...you condition them so they dont fucking snap in the middle of a fight.
@L0rdBalmung1 but regardless of whether you are afraid of breaking your hand or not your soft, unconditioned, hand might still break. Besides which hand conditioning increases the striking force of your hand because you will not only be strengthening the striking surface, you will also be strengthening the surrounding tissue and the muscles used to deliver the blow. General Choi used to say that people who didn't condition had "lady hands". Conditioning is quite important.
Grandmasterdaughter, can you please post the rest of what he is saying about conditioning in between the knuckles? The video was cut off at the most important part.
I had the priviledge of being one of his students way back in the 1974 time frame. He had started schools in Rhode Island. His first group of black belts, ronald Tiverge and others had just been promoted. I went to the Providence school. Seond floor of a building on Washington st. Master Cho would teach a class now and then, or work out in the back on the bag or lift weights. He really was ahead of his time with weight training.
would it be a problem for me to wrap a tree or metal pole with a foam pad and use that as a punching bag?
i dont have access to a normal punching bag, and one concern is because the pole or tree wont move as opposed to the punching bag which will at least swing.
Well conditioning your is good but you should never hit anything harder than a bone, bags are best for shin and hands. Start with softer bags and when you feel like going to harder take it out, if you hit hard objects you hand /knucles will gradually become weaker. just take it nice and easy and it will harden...but it will take time (haste makes waste). And in fight its better if your knuckles are "sharper" it hurts more and its possiple to make cut.
Wood is the best for conditioning. What to do is to do a bit of work, then leave your hands a few days to harden before you go back and do some more work. The end result is that you can break several inches of wood and even go for harder materials. The Body is very adaptable and the strain will harden rather than soften the muscles. You are right about not overdoing it though, and my instructor has always highlighted the need to control how much you are putting in strength wise.
Well I cant really deny that but I dont really belive in conditioning(i dont usually hit anything harder than a human as I do MMA, BJJ, and boxing). Conditioning is part of some Matrial arts what i can do :P
Actually mate you should read up on your biology a bit more. This absolutely RUINS your joints and muscles. It DOES make the bone calcify and harden which brings benefits but liek anything in the human body when trauma is involved, it brings HUGE disadvantages as well.
Much like scar tissue on the skin is thicker but less supple and hence tears easier. Hair, when shaved grows faster thicker and tougher, but more brittle etc. This occurs with just about everything in the body.
If you've never done this before try doing what this man in the vid is doing, then yes you'll damage your hand. That's why smart teachers tell beginners to do knuckle-ups for at least 2-3 yrs before ever attempting this. And even when you start, do it gradually and listen to your body. You don't just start banging away at a hard surface like this man, he's been doing it for years. Plenty TMA masters have done this for years and their hands are fine, because they were smart about it.
I still fail to see what the point in it is frankly.
And not a single one of these "grandmasters" is ever going to advertise that they've suffered some lasting injury from their training because, get this, IT'S A BUSINESS. Don't delude yourself by thinking that they do all this for the love of the art. That's why this guy charges through the nose to even turn up at something. Not to mention the vast range of DVDs etc he charges ridiculous amounts for.
Didn't say they've never been injured. If you're into true old school fighting, Western or Eastern, you're going to break some bones eventually. You can arthritis from fighting with gloves too, so...Anybody in the fighting business charges for the same things. "Modern" fighters who don't do any of this stuff have DVDs and charge high amounts too, let's single out one group. There's people who do it cuz they love it, and those who do it for the money, that's in any profession.
Yeah but I'd rather take advice from someone who I've seen fight. Someone who's honest about wanting money. Someone who's been proven to actually know what he's talking about.
You do not stand even a tenth the risk of arthritis from boxing with wraps and glvoes as you do doing this crap - and a boxer will always punch harder than you.
The fact is this: AIMAA apparently has loads of members in it. So where are all their great fighters?
Again, you're using prizefighting as measuring stick for all combat effectiveness. There's fighting in the ring/octagon, and there's fighting on the street. Any sensible unarmed combat trainer - MMA, Muay Thai, karate, BJJ, etc.- will tell you there are things that work in the ring that won't work on the street and vice versa...
There are things that work in the ring and don't work outisde, I agree with that. However, the ring is where you'll fight other fighters who're just as highly trained. Training "for da street" is just training for a lower level of competition and to be honest, most of these TMAs when they claim to be "training for da street" stick to training in whatever proscribed ruleset they have anyway so it's a bit hypocritical.
Besides, most of them use dead routines and not alive ones.
That goes for any modern unarmed combat system, modern or not. Every fighting style has prescribed rules and guidelines that differentiate it from other styles, otherwise there'd be no difference b/w MT and TKD. VTW, MT is a traditional art too, it's been around for centuries just like the other Asian arts.
Fighting systems are only dead if the figher himself does not adapt his art to meet present needs. At the end of the day, it's about the fighter not his fighting style.
I still don't believe it's a hundred percent true that the art someone does gives them no advantage. For standup fighting alone, the least restrictive ruleset of all is Muay Thai. That's agreed by everyone.
So obviously, the less restrictive a styles "rules" become, the more it tends to resemble Muay Thai. Hence most of the K1 fighters who come from Savate, Kyokushin etc all tend to resemble Thai boxers very closely - because the rules and scorign are very similar.
Never said there's no advantage, I'm saying it's only as effective as the fighter who uses it. If two men have the same fighting style and match up well, or have opposing styles which cancel each other out on paper, then the style is no longer the main issue. It's now about who has prepared more and can impose their will. Man makes fighting styles, not vice versa. And what does "agreed by everyone" mean? Some JKD practitioners would very much disagree with you, so it can't be everyone...
Frankly I don't give a toss what JKD guys tihnk - they don't have a clue about anyting in the majority. they think the can just take a technique from some other martial art and it'll work just dandy when they're using it fro ma completely different guard, stance and timing. Well it doesn't. JKD is a waste of time. Where are all the JKD ring fighters if, as they say, its the "forerunner" to MMA?
That's what comes down to you isn't? What you think, because in MMA, pretty much everyone gives credit to B. Lee for showing them that no one art is perfect, even MT. Even a great Thai striker like Anderson Silva will tell you MT is not enough. What JKD brought to today's fighting isn't just another style of fighting, but a different mindset from the old one that says, "MY style is perfect, all the rest bow down!"
...Traditional Savate does mainly foot kicks, not much for knees and elbows, so where's the resemblence? Kyokushin doesn't just borrow from MT, but from Korean arts too - how often do Thai boxers do axe or crescent kicks? BTW, traditional MT did not have much in the way of punching( i.e. use of the hand, not talking elbows here)when it was created. Hand techniques were added over the years due to Western influence, which some see as a diluting of the art. Everybody borrows from everybody, man.
My point about Savate and Kyuokushin was not as you've taken it. but rather that as soon as these guys fight under a set of rules that are less restrictive and with scorign that scores on effect rather than touch it forces them to be more effective in their striking. As soon as a ruleset forces people to be more honest and effective with their striking they tend to resemble Muay thai. That's the fact I was referring to.
And my point was that what you're saying is not fact, it's your perception of the facts. Perception is reality. If all you wish to see is MT, that's all you will see. It's the same mindset that people have when they see a guy like Machida fight and say, "He's using knees and elbows, there aren't any knees & elbow in karate!" In point sparring, no, but the style itself uses more body parts than people think, because many of its techniques are illegal in a so-called "full-contact" fight.
It still doesn't change the FACT that the more "effective" a striking style tries to be, the more it looks like Muay Thai.
And Anderson Silva isn't a great thai fighter lol. Visping get said to be the same thing and frankly he isn't that good either. He holds an ISKA british muay thai title. A guy from my gym holds the ISKA title at the weight class above him and even he's not too impressed. Like I said before - don't try to talk about Muay Thai lol.
...You're still replying? These are only facts in your sense of perception, dude. A martial art by definition is one person's perception on combat. Victory and defeat isn't decided by styles, it decided by the will of the people who fight. He who imposes the terms of the battle imposes the terms of the peace. One day, you'll understand.
...BTW, saw your page, great MT footage. Thing is, old school MT kicks trees to toughen their shins just as karate and other arts toughen their hands. Anyone can do anything better than you if they train for it. The boxer can have all the power in the world...can he land a hit and/or take one in return? Lyoto Machida, a karate-based fighter, has fought heavy hitters but they couldn't touch him because defense and countering can cancel out power. Not familiar w/ AIMAA, so I can't speak on it.
old school MT kicked banana trees - because they were soft and they didn't have bags to hit. For the last hudred years though they've used bags.
Lyoto Machida doesn't win fights because of hand conditioning. He doesn't even really win it because of Karate techniques. Most of his knockouts come from western style boxing.
Not altogther true. There's still Thai schools that hate the modern ways and still go out into the field. And banana trees aren't the only thing they kick.
Well, you're only the 100th person to try and deny the importance of karate in Machida's success. He's 3rd degree, which means he's been studying it way more than any of the other stuff. He just got his black beltt in BJJ 2 years ago, w/ some sumo, wrestling & MT on the side. His fighting style is based on point sparring, not boxing.
...As far as the hand injuries, the risk of injuries in boxing isn't less. In fact, the risk of injury is highly increased because of regular competition. IBA put out a 2007 report talking about it. Same with MT, average career in Thai circuits is less than 5 years because of the high risk of leg and stomach damage. Several fights a year in the space of 5-10 years, do the math. Granted, there's risk of injury in TMA too, but competing increases your chances. Not all TMA schools compete.
Dont try to tell me anything about Muay thai please - you're invariably gonna get it wrong because you look at it with the same eyes that think TKD is effective. No offence is intended by that.
The average MT career lasts 5 years? That's made up. Most thais who fight every couple of weeks are fighting from the age of 5 right up till they're 30.
None taken, I don't take TKD, I'm a karate man. But I'm also a man who sees value in all the arts and training methods. When you consider that even Bruce Lee use such methods for hand and leg conditioning, then that shows it has value when used in the right way for the right reasons. I mean, to make a fighting stlye from boxing and fencing concepts like Bruce did? Mind-boggling. Many different ways to train, bro, but of course people have their preferences. Anyways, Merry Christmas to you.
It is always built up to, what you see here is end result. Also, I know instructors and Masters, who well into middle age are able to use the tecniques combined with the conditioning, to punch through wood, oh, and the average Martial arts career that involves conditioning lasts not just like 25 years, but a lifetime. Yes, we all recognise that injuries happen, but with proper training they are rare, oh, and my Instructor has no scar tissue on his hands - he's been conditioning for years.
So far I've said nothing that contradicts to the point syou've made. All I've said is that hand conditioning is the most stupid thing in the planet. This does not make you punch harder.
@ephasm It is not about punching harder, it is about your hands being able to survive punching harder objects, such as bone, wood, brick and such. Just suppose your having to fight in an enclosed space and you miss and hit the wall, believe me, it is painful, I have done it in practice. However, conditioning is what stops you breaking your hand. Oh, and before you comment, I have actually had to use tecniques before, conditioning does help, physically and mentally.
If your in a space like that you'd be better of doing something that shitty ass TKD doesnt teach you in the first place and clinch up using knees or elbows. Dont bother with punches if your that close except maybe for a hook or uppercut. In which case if you hit a wall you're a retard and shouldn't be out without your minder anyways.
Besides that, when are you EVER in any practicle situation gonna punch anything harder than someones face?
Most parts of a body are much harder than the face, and I don't know about where you come from, but over here punches to the face land you in a hell of a lot of trouble. A lot more than something that can actually be percieved as defensive. Anyway, to the rest of us you are starting to come off as a chavvy retard so end of discussion.
I'm scottish mate. Same laws as you idiot. Nothing you've said makes sense yet as to WHY DO THIS SHIT TO YOUR HANDS. it's useless. a western boxer will punch harder than you ALWAYS. And he'll never do this crap.
And I should have updated my profile Months ago to where I actually live, Germany. And seriously, Boxers cannot punch as hard as someone well trained in many of the East asian martial arts, he looks cool, maybe, but 90% of those punches do no damage at all.
Mate my girlfriends from germany and I have a lot of family there. In fact I'll be in aschau in a week so what you're saying is a load of bollocks.
And ARE YOU FUCKING HIGH!? You honestly think kung fu or TKD or any of that shit will teach you to punch harder than a boxer? Go say that to a boxer pal - you've jsut shown most of the known worl how much of an idiot you really. And it also puts into perspective EVERYTHING I need to know about your "knowledge" of fighting.
I have no idea what BB is. But I train and fight in professional level muay thai in the UK. I also train in MMA and used to do a bit of boxing - many of my friends still do.
Nowhere have a I seen people do hand conditioning. Generally speaking, most fighters at that kind of level don't have room for bullcrap or other things that dont benefit them in their training.
dude i am a western boxer and i do hand condtioning.. youre obviously a blowhard know nothing idiot that probably thinks drunk pub fighters are the toughest people in the world.. shut the fuck up
Nah I probably think you're full of shit and haven't had a fight since no reputable western boxing gym in the WORLD will make you do hand conditioning and nobody who has a fucking clue about anything would be on this video defending it. You sound like some sort of little social reject who probably had a sparring match with a headguard and 16oz gloves on and thought you were "fighting". Go away kid. Doing boxing once a week doesn't make you a boxer. trust me on this kid. catch ye.
youre an ignorant fuck and dumbass.. you havent said one thing that resembles a factual statement and youre so up your ass that your opinions are like golden rules.. fuck you faggot, you havent a clue as to what youre talking about.. oh and just so youre not confused anymore, hitting a heavy bag conditions your hands, so you do use hand conditioning in western boxing.. now whether your dumbass coach told you not to do it isnt my deal, but you dude are a braindead idiot fuckstick
hitting a heavy bag with gloves on doesn't condition your hands, and l aint a boxer - I'm a thai boxer kid. Still doesn't change the fact that I'd wager my left ball that you've never had a fight and when it comes to any combat sport, if you've not had a fight but liek to spew on about how much you know - then it's usually because youre a shite bag.
who said anything about gloves stupid shitface?! i hit the bag bare knuckles or only with wraps.. and youre not a thai boxer, youre a big mouth blowhard asshole that thinks he knows everything.. and you can wager your balls all you want man, fact is i probably had more fistfights in elementary school than youve had in your entire billy badass career so check yourself buttfuck..
Lol then if you hit bare knuckle you're an idiot, and I'd wager your coach would have the same opinion if he wasn't a complete and utter idiot. I don't care how many "fistfights" you've had in school mate - anyone can fight with some random idiot in school. It takes a lot more balls to fight someone else who's spent the last 8 weeks preparing for nothing else but to fight YOU. But then you wouldn't know that so I guess I'm being too harsh on you.
i know plenty about that, i also know plenty about shit that you dont like being shot at by gangbangers or having an ENEMY stick a shotgun in your face from 4 ft away and you dont move an inch.. or when youre facing down a grip of vatos ready to fuckin kill you and you have to fight for your life.. what do you know about that tough guy? youre a weak lame ass pussy, a bitch made punk and you got nothin on me..
Lol I think maybe you're full of shit and make stuff up to make yourself sound liek you come from "da ghetto". grow up kid. Go see Kick-ass or something -you could be that guy if you get a costume! Really! it could happen!
first off, everything i said is very much true, I got homies in West 40 Crips, SouthSide Crips, East 52 Hoover Crips, Sureno's, East Side Rollerz, West Side Loc's, 514 Bloodz, Soryu's, Black Molly's, DCWC.. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS FULL OF SHIT MY FRIEND!! BURQUE 505 FO' LIFE!! RIDE TIL WE DIE MOTHERFUCKER!! like TI said Whatchu know about that?! and with regards to your 2nd statement, that shit wasnt clever or funny fyi..
Uh-huh. Cos ghetto gangbangers have nothing better to do than sit around bragging on youtube whilst extolling the virtues of hand conditioning. Lol piss off kid and find a hobby. And I mean ACTUALLY find a hobby - not attend training once a week and call yourself a boxer.
never said it did, just proving a point... with regards to your other moronic statements- boxing is fistfighting with gloves, but what happens when you take the gloves off? you hear lots of stories of boxers breaking their hands outside the ring because they havent conditioned their hands.. now, im of the opinion that conditioning your hands makes for a better fighter in the ring and out, and that my limey friend is what really matters.. you lose, i win.. good bye now fag boy
this causes micro fractures to ur bones.. and in return the bone repairs after some days gettin stronger and harder. like when u cut ir nails. they grow. and in bodybuilding u tear muscle fibres inside and when u take good diet and rest they grow bigger and.stronger.
arshsingh72 2 hours ago
hand conditioning or how to be able to take morphine every day by slowly but surely damaging your bones and joints.
heracles04 1 month ago
this training is very bad for your internal organs, because the makiwara is fixed it not absorb shoks.
There are karate masters who have died for this training , the makiwara should be able to move something.
Every action has an equal reaction .
what I mean is if you train like him, your heart and lungs will last little.
all my respect for this taekwondo master .
sorry for english i use tranlator.
windmix1 1 month ago
he is 71 now
KforKungfu 2 months ago
I agree i like this video
luisr222r 2 months ago
it seems like im watching a old chinese movie
Agent0000Zero 2 months ago
those pants are dope.
sivadwerdna 2 months ago
there are dosens of karateka's doing this but the tool here is almost useless - it almost doesn't absorbing any energy which is the main purpose of the kind. This here makes two things: noise and joints damage. No offence.
mastichka 3 months ago
Comment removed
k9m42 3 months ago
@mastichka You’re wrong....When you have been doing this for years as the Grandmaster here, the next level up is to remove absorption little at a time. At this point he only requires the little absorption that the wrapped rope provides.
k9m42 3 months ago
@mastichka ya uuummmm y dont u reserch before makeing a comment its bone conditioning
FistoftheIronDragon 2 months ago
i do knuckle push-ups on gravel
interstellarwonder 3 months ago
Does conditioning like this later lead to athritis?
Peckhaam 3 months ago
I can't hear when he says to properly condition them, do you have to do a lot of reps of hitting hard??? and between what??your knuckles as well?? thank you
Ivanchazz 3 months ago
respect for a fighter
je187u 3 months ago
Video should be called how to break your hand
lucky5944 4 months ago
@lucky5944 Nope thats the guy punching a concrete wall as hard as he can
warriorfire8103 3 months ago
@warriorfire8103 nope he is doing reverse knifehand to a pad on a post, it's hard to do but not the same as hitting the bare post. He can do that at his level, his hands are very strong! I'd have to work up to that!
dragonbalzy 3 months ago
i punch, kick steel post, stone every day
TheLibertard 4 months ago
actually this type of training along with squeezing stressballs can make your bones stronger and joints stronger, if youre already a fighter this when done correctly can be a protective measure to keep your bones and joints from getting hurt or breaking as theyll be conditioned and strengthened over time. some people get arthritis without even injuring bones and joints FYI. this can also help in a street fight as your knuckles do in fact become much harder and dense over time
blahness666 5 months ago 4
ただのマスターベーション。さすがパクリの民族ですね。
ohokukenwakan 5 months ago
Not a good method of conditioning.
tallset2 6 months ago
yes, i know Makiwara, i mean what is the yellow-white circular thing underneath around what is the same color tie? The thing looks like beer box :)
ekkenaab 6 months ago
What is the material under the tie? Metal?
ekkenaab 7 months ago
Comment removed
Darkson85 6 months ago
@ekkenaab It's called, makiwara. Train safe
Darkson85 6 months ago
Is it me or are his fists faster than sound?
xN1kosGRx 7 months ago
This is retarded you don't condition your hand by building up calluses thats just stupid and its not medically safe.There are other ways to condition your hand without causing damage or disfigurment to your hands.Totally irresponsible for someone to put up one of these video's.Absolutely shocking.
skidz187 8 months ago
@skidz187 have some balls and try it urself, its human weapon!!!!
fightingspirittt 7 months ago
@skidz187
agree 100% they have resistance bars specifically for building hand strength and you go up in numbers as your hands get stronger, this guy may have hands of steel but in 20 years he will be in severe pqin on a daily basis.
pokerace420 7 months ago
@pokerace420 um.... hes in his 50s or 60s here... if his hands were gonna start bothering him id think it would be right now thats pretty old but hes not even affected so im not sure if he will be in anymore pain than a regular 80 year old if anything all the training he did would make him more resistant to pain lol
thecrazyness1 7 months ago
yep, it's called "wolff's law"... lil bits of bone are damaged then reconstructed to make it even harder...
TheDarkAwakening 8 months ago 11
this makiwara sucks, it should absorb the shock!
fenshefenshe 8 months ago
damn thats what i call strengthening
if i hit with my palm like that i would be in a lot of pain
dhimitrisrusis 8 months ago
lol i thought the guy was a elf or something then i noticed the top of the video was just stretching his head
Purp1eUrkle 9 months ago
HAHA fuck that I would hate to get punched in the face by this guy
mbolton3469 9 months ago
@mbolton3469 y?
cr4zyaboutRS 6 months ago
Interesting application of positive adaptation It has applications to barefoot running Dr Stoxen, Developer, Human Spring Approach
TeamDoctorsStore 9 months ago
I condition my wrist every morning!...
TWINSTARXTREME 11 months ago 16
i use rope tied around a pole
dotcombatgames 11 months ago
To the people making the arthritis comments - Proper iron palm training calls for the use of medicinal massage liniments and gradual progression which prevents injury/arthritis. People I know who have done it are getting older now, they still do massage therapy and play guitar; don't show any signs of arthritis.
EMT22637 1 year ago
@EMT22637 How many under you knows what is Hand/palm conditioning anyway ¬__¬
wondeguy 1 year ago
Enjoy your crooked fingers
sangwria 1 year ago
I remember back in the 1980's Hee Il Cho smashing the breeze block wall at a seminar i attended and a squillion young impressionable martial artists thought it was the way to go...It ain't necessary. Develop your techniques, that's more important. Cross train in other styles, get in the ring from time to time and don't be intimidated by your instructors politics. You are free to do what you want where you want to do it. Most of all don't listen to anyone who tells you their style is best.
La77a 1 year ago
poor hands... what did they ever do to grandmaster cho :(
warrenrox 1 year ago
I do NOT wish to be included in the flame war that is going over this video, so please leave me out of it. I do, however, have some points to make. GM Cho is now 70 years old and has no discernable arthritis. He is an outstanding instructor and was a superb fighter in his youth. His skill level is still very high. ephasm-are you sure that nobody in the AIMAA has done any fighting worth respecting? I am just asking and I am not taking sides against you.
chitah6 1 year ago
@chitah6 I'm positive - have a look and see if you can find any sort of record. "master" ameris makes a lot of big noises about how hardcore he is but he's never actually fought in a full contact fight outside of TKD and sorry guys, TKD full contact is about as softcore as full cotnact can go. He once said he was gonna enter UFC back in the day, trained for a couple of months with a couple of semi decent MMA fighters then made a bunch of excuses and left.
ephasm 1 year ago
@ephasm I am sure there are plenty of AIMAA guys that would very gladly spar with you. Which one of the ones in your sparring videos is you? Have you been training in Muay Thai for very long? Who is your instructor and who are they under? I am just being inquisitive.
chitah6 1 year ago
@chitah6 I used to train with em years ago lol. I'd happily spar with em as well. I'm the slightly taller one with the mohawk. I've been training at Sit Ayuthaya in Hamilton for 4 - 5 years. Muay Thai doesn't have "lineages" and stuff like that - it's more closely run like boxing.
ephasm 1 year ago
For the record, regardless of what the TKD AIMAA nuthuggers believe, this WILL give you arthritis. "Grandmaster" Cho has no idea about fighting anyways so why bother?
ephasm 1 year ago
this is called makiwara training !! OSS
cedmalf 1 year ago
my TKD grandmaster used to do this sort of thing and he eneded up not being able to write his name
x666666x 1 year ago
nutter
briankeane018 1 year ago
its been proved in fight science, creates micro fractures after that it heals. its like building mucle
kenseisato1989 1 year ago
@kenseisato1989 Except if you're not careful in treating your hand properly, you'll do more damage to your hands in nerve damage and arthritis. That's why in kungfu they use dit da jow to heal the hands and prevent this kind of damage.
AnGobh 1 year ago
@AnGobh
amen,
whats dit da jow?
kenseisato1989 1 year ago
@kenseisato1989 Dit Da Jow is a liniment used to heal your hands and prevent damage including nerve and tissue damage, cuts, and swelling; making sure that your hand is ok. For more info look on wikipedia or type Dit Da Jow into a search engine. If you're wondering where you can get some, just walk into China town, go to a traditional chinese medicine shop and ask for Dit Da Jow.
AnGobh 1 year ago
Comment removed
kenseisato1989 1 year ago
@AnGobh
i will definetly invest in that. thanks a bunch
and also i looked it up on some sites and theres different kind of Did Da Jow. witch one will be best for hand conditioning, and also does Jow make it so that you get nice callus?
kenseisato1989 1 year ago
wooooooooooooooooooow!
spartankk 1 year ago
This causes ARTHRITIS!!! Joint damage and disfigurement! Don't do these. Leave your bones as is, it'll get brittle as you get older. So keep those silky smooth hands and fine bones untouched so guys like them can break you and you wonder why you ever started the art.
Byakuya79 1 year ago
and now what ? kill za Germanz ?
robbiethehood 1 year ago
This is pretty cool, but I went with somewhat of a different approach to conditioning. I started with punching chick peas inside of a canvas bag, used this to do my back hand and wrists too, moved on to steel ball bearings mixed in with jagged stones. For my knife hand I just slam it against anything which looks painful or solid enough. My friends don't like to contact spar with me these days...
whoooosyadaddy 1 year ago
Interesting way to work, wearing my channel, best regards
alejandrocastr 1 year ago
if this guy would hit you in the fase you die
borbador 1 year ago
25 years ago, I modeled my back kick after Cho. My instructor in the same organization explained that the hands are delicate instruments meant for art. I play music where speed and dexterity are neccesary to be proficiant so I prefer to break with my feet. Every art has its price.
knowtoolittle2 1 year ago
you condition your knuckles for protection of your hand as well as to have a heavy hand which damages your opponent. Well I do anyways. SUre power comes from the core and good fighters do conditioning as insulation. But it's offense as well as defense.
Is a 20 year practitioner of iron fist who breaks piles of bricks with no spacers "fucking retarded"??? he aint doin it just to prevetn injury bro, those fists are deadly...
ps makiwara is for idiots, get a sandbag....
danplasma 1 year ago
Comment removed
doddoso 1 year ago
so u dont fucking hurt urself when punching through bones
WFvidz 1 year ago
i havent seen grandmaster cho in a long time but i do remember the last thing i saw him doin was conditioning his knuckles XD
blah12378 1 year ago
Video should be called. How to get arthritis.
SuperSneakySteve 1 year ago 39
@SuperSneakySteve Oddly enough, he's actually stated that while techniques like this can lead to arthritis, he hasn't gotten it after training for years and years doing this.
AnGobh 1 year ago
@SuperSneakySteve conditioning your hands like this doesnt cause arthritis you dumb shit
krypekeeper 1 year ago
@krypekeeper it most certainly fucking does. why the hell do you tihnk boxers wrap their hands in training as well and not just for a fight? Because it gives you fucking arthritis. Theres a whole lot of old school boxers out there with bad arthritis because of the amount of training they've done in their younger years with poor wraps or innadequate gloves. And these are people who punch a hell of a lot better than anyone in AIMAA.
ephasm 1 year ago
@ephasm cant beat a dead horse...you're a moron, please...just go away
krypekeeper 1 year ago
@krypekeeper Ooohh wow you sure showed me.... Why bother arguing when all you've clearly got any knowledge of is TKD? You obviously know fuck all and believe everything they tell you. Word of advice mate: aint nobody in AIMAA who's done any kind of fighting worth respecting, think on that before you hero worship them.
ephasm 1 year ago
@ephasm um i dont really want to be a part of this arguement you got going on but i just wanted to let you know that boxers wrap their hands to protect the many bones in their hand from breaking. boxers dont condition their hands the way a traditional martial artist does because they wear gloves anyway when they fight. traditional martial artists believe that they must be ready at any time. its really just a difference in philosophies. and just to tell you, cho doesnt have arthritis.
ttam142 1 year ago
@ttam142 I come from one such area and I know many people who're in trouble EVERY weekend in life witohut any sort of hand injuries and I've even had a few scrapes myself because you can't live in an area like mine and avoid it totally. Wow, lookee lookee, my glass hands that I've recieved from boxing and thai boxing have never broken. And you don't train anything in striking that beats what I do in thai boxing and that involves clinch work. I still wrap my hands.
ephasm 1 year ago
@ephasm haha this is my last reply to you but has anyone ever told you youre a hater?accept that there are other styles besides muay thai(wich i respect very much).you went from arguing about arthritis(where you were proven wrong) to arguing how all of tkd sucks and how your a badass. And have you ever tried asking your instructors why you wrap your hands? they will tell you something to the effect of its to protect them. i never said boxers were weak but boxing is and always was a sport.
ttam142 1 year ago
@ttam142 Lol i make those posts and all you see is the one small comment at the very end where I say that nothing you do technique wise beats what I do in thai boxing and all you see is me saying it's better. Stop being a moron and actually pay attention. It makes complete sense in the context it's used. You talk about how you don't wrap your hands because you have all sorts of fancy hand techniques that require no wrapping? Well we wrap and you don't do anything we cant beat.
ephasm 1 year ago
@ttam142 muay thai boxing was not always a sport, it was started as Muay Boran and was used in the Thai military.
lsnowboardl 1 year ago
@lsnowboardl i said boxing. not muay thai. boxing started in greece as a sport in the same way wrestling did. and your right that muay thai got its roots from muay boran, but we are unsure of muay borans specific roots though we know it was used by early siamese warriors because of attacks by neighboring countries and tribes.
ttam142 1 year ago
@ttam142 actually the earliest form of boxing that we know of started in in ancient sumer
greece is just credited for actually making it an official sport
blakTiGGeRXXX 10 months ago
@ephasm forgot to add in my previous post that boxers also wrap their hands to keep their wrists from moving too much. in a martial art such taekwondo, there are many techniques wich require you to be able to move your hands more.
ttam142 1 year ago
@ttam142 Mate I've heard all that before - it's the usual crap that's told to TMA guys who have no knowledge of what it's like to actually box. They seem to labour under the misconception that boxers, thai boxers, MMA guys etc. all have glass hands cos "they train for sport, WE train for da ZTREET!". It's a load of bollocks. What about the thousands of people all over the world who routinely fight every weekend outside a bar and don't break their hands?
ephasm 1 year ago
I laughed so hard when I read your post ..hahahaha SO TRUE ! Poor Mister Cho....still wrestling with his ego...and the need to prove how antique his thinking is...at his age improving on his arthritis....Alheimer's is next !
andrewstwilson 1 year ago
@SuperSneakySteve
that is a myth you dont get arthritis from hand conditioning I am 50 and have been traing since i was 19
and i have no signs of arthritis and i play the piano!
sparky427 11 months ago 2
@SuperSneakySteve arthritis is passed down in the family, learn about the body befor commenting on these video's dumbass
TheAkumasenshi 10 months ago
@SuperSneakySteve pussy
freddylv2011 6 months ago
@SuperSneakySteve how to prevent arthritis rather **
Docstuey 3 months ago
@SuperSneakySteve He does not have arthritis. You would be suprised.
MaharlikaAWA 3 months ago
omg lol
abi999 1 year ago
an saw him in real life lol xx
shannonb123fan 1 year ago
Intimidating pants!!
jolting23 1 year ago
what type of string will do to wrap tight? I might make a block conditioner post in my garden near my heavy bag.
milzeh 1 year ago
respect to mr. cho, that hurts to watch!
MrByaeger 1 year ago
Everyone below me in the flame war are fucking retarded...you dont condition your knuckles to punch harder or stronger...you condition them so they dont fucking snap in the middle of a fight.
L0rdBalmung1 1 year ago 56
@L0rdBalmung1 shoalin monks also train there fists for conditioning and to move up to breaking bricks,sticks,ect.
-correct me if im wrong
id3818919 1 year ago
@L0rdBalmung1 There's a point to how conditioned you can make the tiny bones in the hand.
DuykRuyk 1 year ago
@L0rdBalmung1 snap, or bruise/split...
desentrix 1 year ago
@L0rdBalmung1 which allows you to punch harder ie stronger because your hand won't break. Same thing man.
dragonbalzy 3 months ago
@dragonbalzy you dont stop in a fight and think "Oh I might break my knuckles if I hit this guy as hard as I can"
you think "Imma knock the fuck out of this dude". definitely not the same thing.
L0rdBalmung1 3 months ago
@L0rdBalmung1 but regardless of whether you are afraid of breaking your hand or not your soft, unconditioned, hand might still break. Besides which hand conditioning increases the striking force of your hand because you will not only be strengthening the striking surface, you will also be strengthening the surrounding tissue and the muscles used to deliver the blow. General Choi used to say that people who didn't condition had "lady hands". Conditioning is quite important.
dragonbalzy 3 months ago
@dragonbalzy Refer back to my previous comment, you dont condition your hands to punch harder or stronger. You condition them so they wont break.
When the hell is the last time someone said "Brb, going to do some knuckle curls so I can punch stronger" lol
L0rdBalmung1 2 months ago
That hurt to see that, i bet his hands are like steel, and if he would punch me, my bones would burst into pieces. Scary dude:)
Arkanii1 1 year ago
Grandmasterdaughter, can you please post the rest of what he is saying about conditioning in between the knuckles? The video was cut off at the most important part.
GetDamage 1 year ago
Comment removed
skatarest77 1 year ago
Hee IL Cho, this guys has crazy training. Last time I saw him, he had a concrete block on the post he was pounding on, with no pad on it.
eihachiota 1 year ago
great advice on the push ups. but he can also get a bean bag and just hit that with the finger tips and other parts of the hand.
edlo123 1 year ago
The man is the real deal!
TheDharuma 2 years ago
I had the priviledge of being one of his students way back in the 1974 time frame. He had started schools in Rhode Island. His first group of black belts, ronald Tiverge and others had just been promoted. I went to the Providence school. Seond floor of a building on Washington st. Master Cho would teach a class now and then, or work out in the back on the bag or lift weights. He really was ahead of his time with weight training.
gk10002000 2 years ago
would it be a problem for me to wrap a tree or metal pole with a foam pad and use that as a punching bag?
i dont have access to a normal punching bag, and one concern is because the pole or tree wont move as opposed to the punching bag which will at least swing.
nightmoon11 2 years ago
i woldent get hit by him if u payed me money 2
kidrebel13 2 years ago
a grandmaster at striking wood lol..
battlecruiser100 2 years ago
crazy cool
bigbushido1 2 years ago
this dude is old school pro,
He'd probably massacre bears, bulls, lions and elephants by now.
cool70200 2 years ago
i want to see get in a street fight.
Navyseal925 2 years ago
The only dude I know of that could rip a canvas heavy bag in half with a jumping back kick.
bj616 2 years ago
Well conditioning your is good but you should never hit anything harder than a bone, bags are best for shin and hands. Start with softer bags and when you feel like going to harder take it out, if you hit hard objects you hand /knucles will gradually become weaker. just take it nice and easy and it will harden...but it will take time (haste makes waste). And in fight its better if your knuckles are "sharper" it hurts more and its possiple to make cut.
mukkaar 2 years ago
Wood is the best for conditioning. What to do is to do a bit of work, then leave your hands a few days to harden before you go back and do some more work. The end result is that you can break several inches of wood and even go for harder materials. The Body is very adaptable and the strain will harden rather than soften the muscles. You are right about not overdoing it though, and my instructor has always highlighted the need to control how much you are putting in strength wise.
stuc1012 2 years ago
Well I cant really deny that but I dont really belive in conditioning(i dont usually hit anything harder than a human as I do MMA, BJJ, and boxing). Conditioning is part of some Matrial arts what i can do :P
mukkaar 2 years ago
Actually mate you should read up on your biology a bit more. This absolutely RUINS your joints and muscles. It DOES make the bone calcify and harden which brings benefits but liek anything in the human body when trauma is involved, it brings HUGE disadvantages as well.
Much like scar tissue on the skin is thicker but less supple and hence tears easier. Hair, when shaved grows faster thicker and tougher, but more brittle etc. This occurs with just about everything in the body.
ephasm 2 years ago
If you've never done this before try doing what this man in the vid is doing, then yes you'll damage your hand. That's why smart teachers tell beginners to do knuckle-ups for at least 2-3 yrs before ever attempting this. And even when you start, do it gradually and listen to your body. You don't just start banging away at a hard surface like this man, he's been doing it for years. Plenty TMA masters have done this for years and their hands are fine, because they were smart about it.
deek77 2 years ago
I still fail to see what the point in it is frankly.
And not a single one of these "grandmasters" is ever going to advertise that they've suffered some lasting injury from their training because, get this, IT'S A BUSINESS. Don't delude yourself by thinking that they do all this for the love of the art. That's why this guy charges through the nose to even turn up at something. Not to mention the vast range of DVDs etc he charges ridiculous amounts for.
Arthritis will follow this. Fact.
ephasm 2 years ago
Didn't say they've never been injured. If you're into true old school fighting, Western or Eastern, you're going to break some bones eventually. You can arthritis from fighting with gloves too, so...Anybody in the fighting business charges for the same things. "Modern" fighters who don't do any of this stuff have DVDs and charge high amounts too, let's single out one group. There's people who do it cuz they love it, and those who do it for the money, that's in any profession.
deek77 2 years ago
Yeah but I'd rather take advice from someone who I've seen fight. Someone who's honest about wanting money. Someone who's been proven to actually know what he's talking about.
You do not stand even a tenth the risk of arthritis from boxing with wraps and glvoes as you do doing this crap - and a boxer will always punch harder than you.
The fact is this: AIMAA apparently has loads of members in it. So where are all their great fighters?
ephasm 2 years ago
Again, you're using prizefighting as measuring stick for all combat effectiveness. There's fighting in the ring/octagon, and there's fighting on the street. Any sensible unarmed combat trainer - MMA, Muay Thai, karate, BJJ, etc.- will tell you there are things that work in the ring that won't work on the street and vice versa...
deek77 2 years ago
There are things that work in the ring and don't work outisde, I agree with that. However, the ring is where you'll fight other fighters who're just as highly trained. Training "for da street" is just training for a lower level of competition and to be honest, most of these TMAs when they claim to be "training for da street" stick to training in whatever proscribed ruleset they have anyway so it's a bit hypocritical.
Besides, most of them use dead routines and not alive ones.
ephasm 2 years ago
That goes for any modern unarmed combat system, modern or not. Every fighting style has prescribed rules and guidelines that differentiate it from other styles, otherwise there'd be no difference b/w MT and TKD. VTW, MT is a traditional art too, it's been around for centuries just like the other Asian arts.
Fighting systems are only dead if the figher himself does not adapt his art to meet present needs. At the end of the day, it's about the fighter not his fighting style.
deek77 2 years ago
I still don't believe it's a hundred percent true that the art someone does gives them no advantage. For standup fighting alone, the least restrictive ruleset of all is Muay Thai. That's agreed by everyone.
So obviously, the less restrictive a styles "rules" become, the more it tends to resemble Muay Thai. Hence most of the K1 fighters who come from Savate, Kyokushin etc all tend to resemble Thai boxers very closely - because the rules and scorign are very similar.
Surely this is proof
ephasm 2 years ago
Never said there's no advantage, I'm saying it's only as effective as the fighter who uses it. If two men have the same fighting style and match up well, or have opposing styles which cancel each other out on paper, then the style is no longer the main issue. It's now about who has prepared more and can impose their will. Man makes fighting styles, not vice versa. And what does "agreed by everyone" mean? Some JKD practitioners would very much disagree with you, so it can't be everyone...
deek77 2 years ago
Frankly I don't give a toss what JKD guys tihnk - they don't have a clue about anyting in the majority. they think the can just take a technique from some other martial art and it'll work just dandy when they're using it fro ma completely different guard, stance and timing. Well it doesn't. JKD is a waste of time. Where are all the JKD ring fighters if, as they say, its the "forerunner" to MMA?
ephasm 2 years ago
That's what comes down to you isn't? What you think, because in MMA, pretty much everyone gives credit to B. Lee for showing them that no one art is perfect, even MT. Even a great Thai striker like Anderson Silva will tell you MT is not enough. What JKD brought to today's fighting isn't just another style of fighting, but a different mindset from the old one that says, "MY style is perfect, all the rest bow down!"
deek77 2 years ago
...Traditional Savate does mainly foot kicks, not much for knees and elbows, so where's the resemblence? Kyokushin doesn't just borrow from MT, but from Korean arts too - how often do Thai boxers do axe or crescent kicks? BTW, traditional MT did not have much in the way of punching( i.e. use of the hand, not talking elbows here)when it was created. Hand techniques were added over the years due to Western influence, which some see as a diluting of the art. Everybody borrows from everybody, man.
deek77 2 years ago
My point about Savate and Kyuokushin was not as you've taken it. but rather that as soon as these guys fight under a set of rules that are less restrictive and with scorign that scores on effect rather than touch it forces them to be more effective in their striking. As soon as a ruleset forces people to be more honest and effective with their striking they tend to resemble Muay thai. That's the fact I was referring to.
ephasm 2 years ago
And my point was that what you're saying is not fact, it's your perception of the facts. Perception is reality. If all you wish to see is MT, that's all you will see. It's the same mindset that people have when they see a guy like Machida fight and say, "He's using knees and elbows, there aren't any knees & elbow in karate!" In point sparring, no, but the style itself uses more body parts than people think, because many of its techniques are illegal in a so-called "full-contact" fight.
deek77 2 years ago
It still doesn't change the FACT that the more "effective" a striking style tries to be, the more it looks like Muay Thai.
And Anderson Silva isn't a great thai fighter lol. Visping get said to be the same thing and frankly he isn't that good either. He holds an ISKA british muay thai title. A guy from my gym holds the ISKA title at the weight class above him and even he's not too impressed. Like I said before - don't try to talk about Muay Thai lol.
ephasm 2 years ago
...You're still replying? These are only facts in your sense of perception, dude. A martial art by definition is one person's perception on combat. Victory and defeat isn't decided by styles, it decided by the will of the people who fight. He who imposes the terms of the battle imposes the terms of the peace. One day, you'll understand.
deek77 2 years ago
...BTW, saw your page, great MT footage. Thing is, old school MT kicks trees to toughen their shins just as karate and other arts toughen their hands. Anyone can do anything better than you if they train for it. The boxer can have all the power in the world...can he land a hit and/or take one in return? Lyoto Machida, a karate-based fighter, has fought heavy hitters but they couldn't touch him because defense and countering can cancel out power. Not familiar w/ AIMAA, so I can't speak on it.
deek77 2 years ago
old school MT kicked banana trees - because they were soft and they didn't have bags to hit. For the last hudred years though they've used bags.
Lyoto Machida doesn't win fights because of hand conditioning. He doesn't even really win it because of Karate techniques. Most of his knockouts come from western style boxing.
ephasm 2 years ago
Not altogther true. There's still Thai schools that hate the modern ways and still go out into the field. And banana trees aren't the only thing they kick.
Well, you're only the 100th person to try and deny the importance of karate in Machida's success. He's 3rd degree, which means he's been studying it way more than any of the other stuff. He just got his black beltt in BJJ 2 years ago, w/ some sumo, wrestling & MT on the side. His fighting style is based on point sparring, not boxing.
deek77 2 years ago
...As far as the hand injuries, the risk of injuries in boxing isn't less. In fact, the risk of injury is highly increased because of regular competition. IBA put out a 2007 report talking about it. Same with MT, average career in Thai circuits is less than 5 years because of the high risk of leg and stomach damage. Several fights a year in the space of 5-10 years, do the math. Granted, there's risk of injury in TMA too, but competing increases your chances. Not all TMA schools compete.
deek77 2 years ago
Dont try to tell me anything about Muay thai please - you're invariably gonna get it wrong because you look at it with the same eyes that think TKD is effective. No offence is intended by that.
The average MT career lasts 5 years? That's made up. Most thais who fight every couple of weeks are fighting from the age of 5 right up till they're 30.
Fact.
ephasm 2 years ago
None taken, I don't take TKD, I'm a karate man. But I'm also a man who sees value in all the arts and training methods. When you consider that even Bruce Lee use such methods for hand and leg conditioning, then that shows it has value when used in the right way for the right reasons. I mean, to make a fighting stlye from boxing and fencing concepts like Bruce did? Mind-boggling. Many different ways to train, bro, but of course people have their preferences. Anyways, Merry Christmas to you.
deek77 2 years ago
It is always built up to, what you see here is end result. Also, I know instructors and Masters, who well into middle age are able to use the tecniques combined with the conditioning, to punch through wood, oh, and the average Martial arts career that involves conditioning lasts not just like 25 years, but a lifetime. Yes, we all recognise that injuries happen, but with proper training they are rare, oh, and my Instructor has no scar tissue on his hands - he's been conditioning for years.
stuc1012 2 years ago
So far I've said nothing that contradicts to the point syou've made. All I've said is that hand conditioning is the most stupid thing in the planet. This does not make you punch harder.
ephasm 2 years ago
@ephasm It is not about punching harder, it is about your hands being able to survive punching harder objects, such as bone, wood, brick and such. Just suppose your having to fight in an enclosed space and you miss and hit the wall, believe me, it is painful, I have done it in practice. However, conditioning is what stops you breaking your hand. Oh, and before you comment, I have actually had to use tecniques before, conditioning does help, physically and mentally.
stuc1012 2 years ago
If your in a space like that you'd be better of doing something that shitty ass TKD doesnt teach you in the first place and clinch up using knees or elbows. Dont bother with punches if your that close except maybe for a hook or uppercut. In which case if you hit a wall you're a retard and shouldn't be out without your minder anyways.
Besides that, when are you EVER in any practicle situation gonna punch anything harder than someones face?
ephasm 2 years ago
Most parts of a body are much harder than the face, and I don't know about where you come from, but over here punches to the face land you in a hell of a lot of trouble. A lot more than something that can actually be percieved as defensive. Anyway, to the rest of us you are starting to come off as a chavvy retard so end of discussion.
stuc1012 2 years ago
I'm scottish mate. Same laws as you idiot. Nothing you've said makes sense yet as to WHY DO THIS SHIT TO YOUR HANDS. it's useless. a western boxer will punch harder than you ALWAYS. And he'll never do this crap.
ephasm 2 years ago
And I should have updated my profile Months ago to where I actually live, Germany. And seriously, Boxers cannot punch as hard as someone well trained in many of the East asian martial arts, he looks cool, maybe, but 90% of those punches do no damage at all.
stuc1012 2 years ago
Mate my girlfriends from germany and I have a lot of family there. In fact I'll be in aschau in a week so what you're saying is a load of bollocks.
And ARE YOU FUCKING HIGH!? You honestly think kung fu or TKD or any of that shit will teach you to punch harder than a boxer? Go say that to a boxer pal - you've jsut shown most of the known worl how much of an idiot you really. And it also puts into perspective EVERYTHING I need to know about your "knowledge" of fighting.
ephasm 2 years ago
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SuperKixxx 2 years ago
Taping hands just protects against repetetive strain injuries. And gloves prevent serious damage to the opponent.
But basically you agree that this has no bearing on modern day life or situatuions that may occur?
ephasm 2 years ago
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SuperKixxx 2 years ago
Name one.
ephasm 2 years ago
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SuperKixxx 2 years ago
I have no idea what BB is. But I train and fight in professional level muay thai in the UK. I also train in MMA and used to do a bit of boxing - many of my friends still do.
Nowhere have a I seen people do hand conditioning. Generally speaking, most fighters at that kind of level don't have room for bullcrap or other things that dont benefit them in their training.
ephasm 2 years ago
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SuperKixxx 2 years ago
Ah, that's what's known as a "witty riposte", yes? Touché. Shows what happens when I try to mentally spar with a razor sharp intellect like yours.
ephasm 2 years ago
dude i am a western boxer and i do hand condtioning.. youre obviously a blowhard know nothing idiot that probably thinks drunk pub fighters are the toughest people in the world.. shut the fuck up
NMghost223 1 year ago
Nah I probably think you're full of shit and haven't had a fight since no reputable western boxing gym in the WORLD will make you do hand conditioning and nobody who has a fucking clue about anything would be on this video defending it. You sound like some sort of little social reject who probably had a sparring match with a headguard and 16oz gloves on and thought you were "fighting". Go away kid. Doing boxing once a week doesn't make you a boxer. trust me on this kid. catch ye.
ephasm 1 year ago
youre an ignorant fuck and dumbass.. you havent said one thing that resembles a factual statement and youre so up your ass that your opinions are like golden rules.. fuck you faggot, you havent a clue as to what youre talking about.. oh and just so youre not confused anymore, hitting a heavy bag conditions your hands, so you do use hand conditioning in western boxing.. now whether your dumbass coach told you not to do it isnt my deal, but you dude are a braindead idiot fuckstick
NMghost223 1 year ago
hitting a heavy bag with gloves on doesn't condition your hands, and l aint a boxer - I'm a thai boxer kid. Still doesn't change the fact that I'd wager my left ball that you've never had a fight and when it comes to any combat sport, if you've not had a fight but liek to spew on about how much you know - then it's usually because youre a shite bag.
ephasm 1 year ago
who said anything about gloves stupid shitface?! i hit the bag bare knuckles or only with wraps.. and youre not a thai boxer, youre a big mouth blowhard asshole that thinks he knows everything.. and you can wager your balls all you want man, fact is i probably had more fistfights in elementary school than youve had in your entire billy badass career so check yourself buttfuck..
NMghost223 1 year ago
Lol then if you hit bare knuckle you're an idiot, and I'd wager your coach would have the same opinion if he wasn't a complete and utter idiot. I don't care how many "fistfights" you've had in school mate - anyone can fight with some random idiot in school. It takes a lot more balls to fight someone else who's spent the last 8 weeks preparing for nothing else but to fight YOU. But then you wouldn't know that so I guess I'm being too harsh on you.
ephasm 1 year ago
i know plenty about that, i also know plenty about shit that you dont like being shot at by gangbangers or having an ENEMY stick a shotgun in your face from 4 ft away and you dont move an inch.. or when youre facing down a grip of vatos ready to fuckin kill you and you have to fight for your life.. what do you know about that tough guy? youre a weak lame ass pussy, a bitch made punk and you got nothin on me..
NMghost223 1 year ago
Lol I think maybe you're full of shit and make stuff up to make yourself sound liek you come from "da ghetto". grow up kid. Go see Kick-ass or something -you could be that guy if you get a costume! Really! it could happen!
ephasm 1 year ago
first off, everything i said is very much true, I got homies in West 40 Crips, SouthSide Crips, East 52 Hoover Crips, Sureno's, East Side Rollerz, West Side Loc's, 514 Bloodz, Soryu's, Black Molly's, DCWC.. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS FULL OF SHIT MY FRIEND!! BURQUE 505 FO' LIFE!! RIDE TIL WE DIE MOTHERFUCKER!! like TI said Whatchu know about that?! and with regards to your 2nd statement, that shit wasnt clever or funny fyi..
NMghost223 1 year ago
Uh-huh. Cos ghetto gangbangers have nothing better to do than sit around bragging on youtube whilst extolling the virtues of hand conditioning. Lol piss off kid and find a hobby. And I mean ACTUALLY find a hobby - not attend training once a week and call yourself a boxer.
ephasm 1 year ago
im not a ghetto gangbanger, im just sayin ive seen shit.. shit you would piss your pants if you saw.. now go fuck yo mama
NMghost223 1 year ago
Hahahahaaaa you're full of shit!
ephasm 1 year ago
how bout a 15 member US Marshal team kicking down your friends front door in a no knock warrant and sticking big scary weapons in your face?
NMghost223 1 year ago
Means fuck all when it comes to what you know about boxing mate.
ephasm 1 year ago
never said it did, just proving a point... with regards to your other moronic statements- boxing is fistfighting with gloves, but what happens when you take the gloves off? you hear lots of stories of boxers breaking their hands outside the ring because they havent conditioned their hands.. now, im of the opinion that conditioning your hands makes for a better fighter in the ring and out, and that my limey friend is what really matters.. you lose, i win.. good bye now fag boy
NMghost223 1 year ago