roevswade the pro's and con's of roe v wade

[RichKnight2010]

Women murder pre-born babies.

Thus, women are unworthy of the vote.

[BastetAsshur]

cont... This is not something America has the right to debate over for the whole world. There are countries that are pro-life and there are countries that are pro-choice. Each countries citizens can accept, be happy with, object, fight for change or take any other stance they wish to take on their own laws for themselves and can do so perfectly well without American involvement.

[BastetAsshur]

I'd just like to point out that Roe VS Wade is USA specific. Thus, it has nothing to do with the UN or the rest of the world. In fact, much of the world doesn't have a debate over abortion at all, some do. I live in a country where 88% of people are Pro-Choice. There's no debate. There's an overwhelming majority and a miniscule yet noisy & annoying minority. I don't want the USA to dictate to the rest of us their debate and force their opinions on us using their Roe VS Wade case.

[mjt19741]

I like what you said about the whole situation. It sounds like you are trying to compromise Pro Life and Pro Choice. I am Pro Life and I believe the best way to end the arguement is for both sides to come to an agreement.

I am all for making it illegal, but some women that have abortions ( including rape/incest and/or life threatening situations) do have a good reason for having an abortion. Also like I said I am would like to compromise.

[leiapeison]

check out the book "death by adoption" for info on how adoption can and often does have lifelong detrimental effects on mothers and children.

[leiapeison]

who is anyone to determine what is the most heartbreaking? no i dont think death is the worst thing to happen to somebody. a ruined life is no life at all. i have talked to people who wish their parents had never had them. i have read the stories of people who wish their parents had had a choice in not having them. and no, adoptiion is not a panancea. it is not for everybody.

[leiapeison]

how is it prolife to require people to bring unwanted children into the world? i have talked to so many people who hate being parents and wish their children had never been born. that is not better than abortion. it is just as if not more evil than abortion ever could be. contraceptives fail. rape happens. if somebody cant decide not to be a parent, what can they decide? what is the point of having a life if that life is ruined?

[roevswade]

strange, I have never talk to someone that had children and wish they had never been born no matter how hard is was, I'm sure there out there.

is not abuse that brings death the most heartbreaking?

[WarThemedRevolution]

@leiapeison So basically your argument is that we should allow abortion regardless of whether the fetus is a person with rights because it will prevent suffering. However, if our obligation to prevent suffering is more important than our obligation to uphold individual rights, then wouldn't the eugenicists who used this argument have been correct in asserting that we should force people who would otherwise have children they can't feed to be sterilized?

[leiapeison]

@WarThemedRevolution not to prevent suffering. society does not work when it outlaws abortion. abortion is a necessary part of our world for a plethora of reasons. all we have to do is look at the quality of life for ALL citizens in countries where abortion is banned. individual rights? what is the point of having any rights if you are born a slave?

[WarThemedRevolution]

@leiapeison …if you have rights you won’t be born a slave. As to allowing abortion because it’s better for society, that was the argument of fascism. We can sacrifice individual rights for the greater good of society. We don't pick and choose when to uphold rights according to convenience. Besides, the notion that society doesn't work without abortion is absurd and baseless. Poland, Ireland, and the U.S before Roe...all banned abortion, all have great life quality.

[wood9670]

Its not right to CREATE a person or if you prefer "human life" without their consent and then nonchalantly destroy that person/"human life" arbitrarily.

The unborn did not ask to be conceived.

What if an alien race came to Earth saying their ancestors bought the planet billions of years ago before any life had evolved and they want eveyone to get off their property immediately. If they don't they will get killed.

Is this situation very fair?

[BabiesWearDiapers]

@wood9670

the unborn didnt ask for anything....no vocal chords

[wood9670]

May God bless you.

[leiapeison]

in order for women to be autonomous, self determined individuals, they must be able to reject the sharing of their bodies with the fetus. they must not be reduced to incubators by the state. the govt cant force me to keep a foreign object inside me against my will. if i can't be free in my own skin, i cant be free anywhere.

[WeAreBullets]

abortion is murder.

[sueezee]

WeAre:abortion is murder. You're a lair. I wonder if you think people will believe your lies, and abortion will suddenly become illegal because of them. Don't you know most intelligent people KNOW what murder is , and in saying abortion is murder, it just makes you look ignorant? Why don't you take pride in the things you say? Have you always lied to get your way?

[WeAreBullets]

i know what the different terms mean, im not completely brain dead yet.lol.

murder is the premeditated killing of a human being. the organism in the womb is a human being (homosapien). abortion is the termination of that organism's life, and it is premeditated. there is no dancing around the facts. these are all things ive researched and its all based on logic, i never brought up religion, cause i know that people prefer to avoid that. look it up urself, cause it seems ur a bit confused.

[sueezee]

weare: murder is the premeditated killing of a human being. the organism in the womb is a human being (homosapien). Wrong! A fetus is NOT a human being, nor is a homosapien.The are JUST biologically of the human species. Human BEING means something all together different

weare: there is no dancing around the facts. these are all things ive researched and its all based on logic The definition of murder & the legal wording describing it, is legalities, not what you think is logical

[RatRaceAce]

Dear lady, you've missed an important point: "life" should not mean miserable physical existence like rats and cockroaches until death comes along mercifully. You need to consider "quality of life". What quality of life can children expect if born to rape victims who are underaged, poor, uneducated, unhealthy, living alone or around violent, abusive people, etc? Think hard before condemning them to go through lives of hell. Better not to live at all than experience all this and THEN die.

[sueezee]

rat:Better not to live at all than experience all this and THEN die. Right!!

[RatRaceAce]

Most women seeking abortion do so for good reasons. If you want to ban abortion because some people may abuse it, then you must ban EVERYTHING that people have used in the past to kill others - even water.

The fetus is like a chicken's egg, and goes through a long chemical process before it turns into a baby with life. Don't you differentiate between egg and chicken? Do you say that the egg is a live chicken? If so, when you boil or poach an egg, are you boiling or poaching a chicken alive?

[satanisprochoice]

abortion is painful, its confusing.

Especially "drive by abortion" only promote irresponsibility.

Even after a rape it is still a child. I do ultrasounds on 5 wk old babies, and see a heart beat, and this little body of cells moves, and has hands/feet.

[sueezee]

satan:I do ultrasounds on 5 wk old babies, and see a heart beat, and this little body of cells moves, and has hands/feet. So what?

[WeAreBullets]

so..  if theres a beating heart then that human is living.

if it is growing and its cells are multiplying then that is a living human being.

abortion is the termination of a human life,

why cant people see this?

life is so in your face, how can we believe it is worthless?

[sueezee]

WeAre:if it is growing and its cells are multiplying then that is a living human being No, human being is not a biological term, its a legal term. It has nnothing to do with cells. Human is a biological term

Weare:abortion is the termination of a human life yes. Weare:why cant people see this? See what? That you make up your own definitions for words, so they mean what YOU want them to mean? Why can't you fight abortion w/o doing that?

[WeAreBullets]

ok then our "homosapien" species is what we call a human being. human race = homosapien, what are u trying to say here? theres no getting around it, the legal word we use is the word for our species.

there is no making up of words here. its the truth, the facts. as soon as an egg is fertilized that is a human being/homosapien in the early stages off life. i am in a later stage of life, so if u can justify killing a fetus than u could justify killing me or any other adult.

[sueezee]

we:so.. if theres a beating heart then that human is living. yep

we:if it is growing and its cells are multiplying then that is a living human being. nope.

abortion is the termination of a human life yep

we:why cant people see this? because one of them is a lie.

[WeAreBullets]

buddy, that second fact is one of a handful of ways to determine weather something is living or not. like i said Do Your Research. there is a list of factors that determine life. so it is.. t r u e. :o

[sueezee]

we:buddy, that second fact is one of a handful of ways to determine weather something is living or not. like i said Do Your Research. there is a list of factors that determine life. so it is.. So what? When life begins has NOTHING to do with abortion. I don't need to do research, YOU do, to find out it just dosen't matter in the abortion arena. You can scream when you think life begins from now till dooms day, with no results. Why not attack REAL issues?

[WeAreBullets]

Sueeze..

When life begins has Everything to do with it. our previous argument just proved that.

'abortion is termination of fetus, fetus is living human being, murder is killing of a human being, so abortion is murder.'

many prochoice people ask for us prolife people to give a logical reason for our stance, and i just did, and ur still not satisfied?

thats called denial.

i hope you and others can someday understand the Truth, not made up crap that justifies being selfish.

[sueezee]

we:'abortion is termination of fetus, fetus is living human being LIAR: .its a living human

we:murder is killing of a human being LIAR. Murder is an illegal killing.

we:logical reason for our stance, and i just did You LIED. That isn't logical.

we:thats called denial. Abortion is LEGAL because of the things I have said, now WHO is in denial?

[sueezee]

we:When life begins has Everything to do with it. Nope, nothing. learn abortion laws.

we: hope you and others can someday understand the Truth I AM pro-choice truth, and that truth is  why abortion is legal. Ever wonder why YOUR isdeas haven't made it illegal? Take a frickin wild guess!

we:many prochoice people ask for us prolife people to give a logical reason for our stance prolife & logical reasoning is the epitome of a oxymoron!

[Sarojah95]

Abortion is legal so that 'inferior people' from low to mid socio groups do not contribute new humans to society more than is necessary. Every good liberal should know who Margaret Sanger, champion of women's 'reproductive freedom', is. If you take time to learn more than what you were taught in college about her you will find that not only did she support women's use of birth control, she was an elitist of the Hitler variety. That's why our socialist government lets you kill your babies.

[sueezee]

Saro:Abortion is legal so that 'inferior people' from low to mid socio groups do not contribute Well, my, my, aren't you gald those disgusting "pigs" dont have to raise babies. WHAT? You mean you WANT them to ? Oh yes, to HELL with the welfare of the kids! Right> LOL

saro:she was an elitist of the Hitler variety the definintive word there is ............WAS. Dont worry your pretty little head... SHES FRICKIN DEAD. Find a live person to be your irrelevant scapegoat!

[Sarojah95]

Sueezee: I was not giving my opinion on abortion. You were touting the "truth" as to why abortion is legal. However, you never stated that truth. I was giving you YOUR GOVERNMENT'S position on abortion and supporting with historical data that influence(d) that policy. It's all those wonderful elitists, including our president, who don't want those "disgusting pigs" as YOU put it, to raise children, not me. And that is the "truth" as to why abortion is legal. You should readmore carefully.

[sueezee]

saro:You were touting the "truth" as to why abortion is legal. I dont know what I said to you, nor do I see where I posted anything to you, so I dont know what you're talking about.

[ajohns92]

It is logical. It's logical to think that if someone feels mature enough to have sex, then that person SHOULD be mature enough to deal with the consequences instead of run from them. If you don't like the idea of becoming pregnant then do things to prevent it or don't have sex.....(the only exception i make is for rape or incest, or when the mother would be harmed if she carried out a pregnancy)

[SabrinaSilverstien]

I'm pro-life, but even I know that making abortion illegal will only kill more people than it will save. Woman need to have a safe chioce.

[mjt19741]

@SabrinaSilverstien If abortion was to be made illegal, it would not kill more people like you said it will. It would make it harder for a woman to have an underground abortion.

[selfstricken]

Alright, after the first month, there's not life. It is still just a bunch of cells. If it's a woman's body, it's her choice. If anyone doesn't agree with abortion, that's their problem. But as far as abortion goes, if a woman does not want to be pregnant, she should have every right not to be.

If a woman is raped, should she not be able to choose not to carry her rapist's baby?

[dshct]

That is a favorite a pro-choice person but is so raw in the number of women who get abortions.

[Chipwhitley274]

Science shows that as early as the Zygote the organism IS considered a living Human Being. A zygote meets all the scientific criteria for an individual living organism. So I am pro life because of the science not because of religion. I feel that it is anti choice to commit abortion because they are avoiding the responsibility of repercussions from the original choice to have sex. Adults should be responsible for their choices. Also no one is allowing the human fetus the Choice to live.

[sueezee]

Go to bjwinslow dot/com (thats just ONE) click on "fetuses" on top to see all the rubber fetuses available, that are used on YT prolife videos & different websites. They can be dressed up in blood, black coloring to represent "burning", and all sorts of wonderful little visual "tricks". People, please think before believing ANY picture you see. You owe it to yourself to be educated.

[StephenKuma]

my friend is pro-choice. im anti-abortion. but i thought, would i want a funeral for a little foetus? it feels weird thinking about it. do u bury it?

however, he had another interesting point, are all anti-abortionists adopting those children??

but to prove you truly care, do u have to adopt??

[phoenixgem13]

But I also turn to the pro-life community and ask this: why, when a woman (teen mothers especially) choose to KEEP the child and everyone (obviously, kind of hard to hide those things) finds out, do some of you turn your backs? That's shameful, quite frankly. These women have made a very hard choice, have chosen to take the harder, rougher path...why do you turn away from them? Shame them? When, in my personal opinion, they have done a noble deed.

[jaces227]

I TOTALLY agree with you. I have such respect for woman who are pregnant but choose to keep the child when they are in a tough situation (such as school, having little money to care for the child, rape, etc.) I would never look down my nose on any woman or teen who is pregnant, because like you, I think they have done a noble deed. :-)

[page3000]

I agree...everyone freaks out when they see a pregnant teenage girl! What a bunch of idiots. Women are snooty to them etc. I think it's great that they were so courageous. God Bless em!

[phoenixgem13]

If it's alive, stopping it means you're ending the life, the progress that has already started. Also, genetically, an embryo, at its EARLIEST stages is recognized as Human. (Don't believe me....GOOGLE IT :o) Also, I find it very interesting that if the woman decides to keep the "mass of tissue" it instantly becomes a "baby" if not, it's just a "mass of tissues." When a miscarriage occurs, why are so many women (my grandmother having been one of them...) so bereaved, if it was just tissue?

[phoenixgem13]

what great change occurs between the moment of the "fetus" being in the womb and the the moment it takes its first breath OUTSIDE the womb...how does it go from being "just tissue" to a human life in that amount of time. You cannot argue that the life form (child, baby, fetus, whatever you will) needs nutrients and sustains its life and gathers the nutrients from the mother, ergo, if it needs nutrients, it's alive.

[phoenixgem13]

I'm pro life because of this basic logic...the word "abort" means "to fail, cease or stop at an early age." In order to stop something....it must first be started. If something has "started" (i.e.-a seed in the ground begins to take root) then it has life. To abort means to stop what has started...to stop life. I never understood why it was so important to some people that the "fetus" be out of the womb in order to be considered human...

[jianniestrong]

well if its for school there is tempory work study where you work at home.. if its morning sickness they have things that can combat that.. if it is about work you do have maternity leave well if she drinks its not going to kill the baby an if she smokes depending on what it is she might face liablity.. so to continue doing those things is not a good idea but good point desmo986

[jianniestrong]

i say for you that say you guys get abortion because you cant afford to take of babies do you know there are organizations out there willing to take care of u an medical an with adoption.. so i cant take care of a baby is not a good argument

[desmo986]

as I said before, what if she has to go to school or has other obligations? The emotional volatility, morning sickness, and the other health issues would interfere with a heavy workload. What if she drinks or smokes and doesnt want to quit? the fact is, it is not right to turn someone into a criminal because you disagree with them.

[jianniestrong]

good point desmo986 even though i agree with you on the drinking an smoking i have heard of no babies dying from there mothers drinking an believe me mothers drink while pregg i dont want to turn any woman in to a crimninal i do think they shoul be informed an nurtured most of the people that go out an get abortons are misinformed an there poor people dont u see the link between the 2

[hmgirl53]

There are 100s of couples that want children. They will pay your medical bills for you. Adopt the baby out! Then don't become pregnant if you don't have a husband to help raise it.

[desmo986]

Say you have to work or go to school or any other situation where the physical and emotional consequences of having a baby makes it either difficult or impossible?

[hmgirl53]

There is no perfect answer to all the problems. However a woman can work or go to school right up to delivery date in most cases, the birth is a over and she goes home the next day. She may be out a week, then back to her regular life and her child is safe and happy instead of aborted. It's IS the right thing to do!

[hmgirl53]

Do you support racial clensing and keeping African Americans the minority race? Want to see Social Security& Medicare to go broke? 35% of all abortions are African American girls, dead people can't work and pay into Social Security and Medicare funds. There is no next generation . That is what happens as a result of abortion.PLUS It's murder. I'm a Republican. I am white 60 year old woman, Christian and I want abortion on demand to END!

[teton99]

Youtube - Gianna Jessen

[chrisman737]

Well-presented video. It is clear that abortion is the taking of an innocent life. One does not need to be devoutly religious in order to understand this -- if one understands fetal development, then it is clear that abortion is wrong. But the answer is not to imprison women but to help them, to give them true help and assistance.

[felixcommi]

Few questions...

1) Does life begin at conception?

2) Does god have his hand in our creation at conception?

3) Does god gracefully/deliberately craft us in our wombs as is proclaimed in psalms?

Lastly and most importantly,

4) Do 50% of all these conceptions ultimately fail and die, never materializing into the children they were meant to become?

YES! ... thus, God is the world's greatest abortionist if you accept that his hand is involved in the process of conception.

[felixcommi]

Roe v. Wade wasn't decided in factual vacuum. Women have been having abortions for all of human history and to this day once every six seconds a woman dies from a failed unsafe abortion. Shameful lack of compassion.

[mxzptlk10]

Felix: Thieves have been robbing for all of human history and to this day some of them risk seriously their lives while fulfilling their "choice", because robbing is not always safe. BE CONSISTENT, MR. BUSH! If killing babies is legal, why risk the lives of hundreds of thieves (citizens with civil rights), potentially damaged by gun owners or automatic security systems? It's a shameful lack of compassion. LEGALIZE THEFT NOW!

[felixcommi]

We all want to reduce the numbers of abortions, whether it be for saving "children?" (i.e. fetuses) or for women not having to face this difficult choice.

Young girls face a mulitplicity of health concerns, people with spinal cord or internal organ problems cannot often not sustain births (i.e. will die), in the case of rape or incest these pregnancies will be conducive to extreme mental health issues (but combating suicide isn't validly pro-life apparently).

[mxzptlk10]

"Combating suicide isn't validly pro-life"? Can you combat suicide killing another human being? That's no valid choice. Plus, life is at the top of the rights hierarchy, and nobody has the right to kill in order to avoid a depression. It'd been better to think twice before having intercourse.

[mxzptlk10]

One more: There are more suicides linked to abortions than to births. In Finland, researchers Gissler, Hemminski & Lonnqvist reviewed all the suicides of women in 1987-94 and found that there were almost 7 times more suicides of women that had an abortion than of women that gave birth a child. You can find their research on the Web, though it's full of technical expressions and that makes it a little hard to read for non-specialists

[desmo986]

All that research says is that a woman whose had an abortion committed suicide, not that having an abortion led to her suicide. A woman who doesnt take the pill and whores herself out has a lifestyle that is more likely to either cause depression or be the result of depression.

[mxzptlk10]

Anyone REALLY interested in research and statistics can look in the Web for: Fergusson, Abortion in young women and subsequent mental health; Broen, The course of mental health after miscarriage and induced abortion: a longitudinal, five-year follow-up study; Coleman, Substance use among pregnant women in the context of previous reproductive loss and desire for current pregnancy; Cougle, Depression associated with abortion and childbirth: a long-term analysis of the NLSY cohort (cont.)

[mxzptlk10]

Plus: Ostbye, Health services utilization after induced abortions in Ontario: a comparison between community clinics and hospitals; Coleman, A history of induced abortion in relation to substance use during subsequent pregnancies carried to term; and others-- but I can't turn this page into a bibliographical catalog. There are enough hints to conclude that women who still have (at least) a little bit of conscience, are prone to feel guilty.

[leiapeison]

what sickens me is women that have abortions for birth control. a member of my family has had several abortions and not used birth control. for the life of me i can't understand that reasoning.

[hmm1maybe2so]

another question, not too long ago, i had to get abortion because i knew i couldnt take care of a child, and i didn't have the heart to let a child suffer with me, now (i have 2 children) i fell so much better because i'm able to do the things i think i a child deserves,...does this make me bad? or.."ignorat"?

[roevswade]

(((Hugs))) I hope your ok, if you need a friend message me.

[hmm1maybe2so]

lol nah, i just want to be able to understand that pro-lifers understand every situation they are turning down, but you didn't answer my first question :-(, if you can say yes it makes them bad then i think i would have a better understanding of where you guys completely come from

[ralphschofield]

hmm1maybe2so, if I may share my two cents... I think the abortion was sinful, but many would sympathize with you. I imagine you think you made a stupid decision getting pregnant in the first place. We all make stupid decisions, and while I oppose the type of abortion you had, I cannot be sure that, while it's legal, I wouldn't have been inclined to make the same decision you made. With that said, none of htat makes you bad or ignorant.

[hmgirl53]

You know the abortion was wrong or you wouldn't need reasurance from a blog. You can be forgiven! But, why not go to your pastor and ask for help to adopt the baby to a good family? There are options.

[wazzup20011983]

there are other choices besides abortion. is it fair to that child that they had to die? it is selfish, and i also had a child, but kept it, with the same choice

[hmm1maybe2so]

I think i like you :-), but i do have some questions, i would like to understand. We already now people don't have abortions because they are bored, they do it because they can't take care of a baby, or pay for one, it offer it the care it deserves, are you saying, people should be forced to take care of a life, that they can not afford to?

[roevswade]

I think I like you too :-)

Women in general don't get abortion because their bored, more likely they feeling scared, hopeless, helpless and overwhelmed.

[hmm1maybe2so]

So what do you think woman should do if they can't afford babies?, example ..i'm just tellin my buisness now lol, my auntie hasn't worked in 7 years, has a 7th grade education and lives with her mom...there is no way in this country a person with that kind of education can get a job, expecially if they don't care, she drinks abusives her self, and got pregant...would should she do?, cause shes simply not giving it up to an orphange

[washedbytheword777]

What would any mother do if she fell into poverty after she already kids? She would do the best she could for her kids. No child ever resented his parents because they were poor.

[washedbytheword777]

I have 6 1/2 kids on one income and though my kids don't have name brand clothing and everything they want, they know they're loved and valuable because they were made in the image of God, and therefore have unimaginable intrisic value that's not dependant on financial staus, intellect, social status, etc. Because they don't have to worry about earning their worth or losing it, they are free to strive and thrive the way God intended them to.

[washedbytheword777]

I don't believe you are any "badder" than anybody else. We are all sinners in need of grace and forgiveness. Having an abortion does not make God love you any less. It does sadden Him, but He still loves you and welcomes the repentant and poor in spirit.

We're all on level ground at the foot of the cross.

[ralphschofield]

washedbytheword777: Well lots of children have indeed resented their parents for being poor.  But point well taken.

[mxzptlk10]

Well, that doesn't mean it would be better for their parents to kill them

[smadewell]

2. That said, I'm oddly for & against. I understand you don't want the religious vs. secular brought here, but there is one book I highly recommend that would show Christians that the Jewish Sages struggled with & answered these questions & more 1,500 years ago & had a unique POV - "Marital Relations, Birth Control & Abortion in Jewish Law" by David M. Feldman.

[roevswade]

great comment!

LOL

yes! I do feel fleeced!

[smadewell]

1. I honestly don't think this is an issue that the folks in DC will ever hammer out, because they just use these kinds of issues to keep us divided & distracted, whilst they continue to herd, fleece & slaughter us.

[ralphschofield]

Well, of course, that all depends on what you called "hammered out." There is law on the books.