Without Short Term Stimulus Global Economy Will Go Over The Precipice

[88888FORCE]

How Dangerous is This Moment?

Sept-16-2011--Jeff Madrick, author of the Age of Greed, says with wages flat austerity measures and the domination of finance we face a very dangerous decade. INFO-AWARENESS - VIKEN Z KOKOZIAN

[88888FORCE]

Without Short Term Stimulus Global Economy Will Go Over The Precipice

Sept-16-2011--Michael Greenberger: Lack of capital for productive investment starving global economy. INFO-AWARENESS - VIKEN Z KOKOZIAN

[meesterJos]

Although Michael does seem to know how and why the financial crisis began, he has no clue what is next in line waiting to happen. The financial crisis is only one out of three real-time threats to human society. If we solve the financial issue or not, the ENERGY-crisis is due to be next on the list, which will destroy all the efforts to solve the debt-pit we all seem to fall into. Then there is the real-time CLIMATE-crisis, which will let the former two look like NOTHING!

[matchbox555]

tax the rich pigs

[sirellyn]

I'm amazed even for the real news its so easy for them to lose track of things. They start off with the cause of the 2008 crash but then don't talk about it, but rather some who profited from it, but none who caused it.

For the all the anger people have towards the wealthy not a single name of any of the instigators of this is ever mentioned. This feels like Bush hate muslim era all over again, forgetting Bin Laden.

Put some light on Paulson, Dimon, and Blankfein for starters!

[icewalker23]

many ppl don't realize these issues exist as they do because they are too busy running on a treadmill to nowhere trying to live like the wealthy while just earning a salary hoping they're the next one to win the lottery. As long as wealthy ppl's money is generating their income no one earning a salary will ever catch up. THE GAME IS RIGGED and it has nothing to do with race, education levels, etc. To the truly wealthy all of us are the same simply because we are not them.

[Redfingers]

I love this idea that banks don't have enough capital when the Fed just got done with QE2, TARP, plus the secret bailouts totaling 16 trillion dollars in zero interest loans both to foreign and domestic banks. Plus interest rates have been extremely low since the recession began.

What the fuck is this guy talking about?

And US corporations have record levels of cash on hand.

[megatroll]

I wish Paul Jay would fuck me like a dog...

[humaner]

Umm capitalism as a religion forgot about humanity.

[plemyk]

I'm reading about "Gordon Wasson",a former J.P.Morgan banker from early last century,it seems he went to Mexico,and researched "Magic Mushrooms".......and wrote many articles and publications regarding he's experience,it seems to me modern bankers should take this as inspiration to follow in he's footsteps.

[scm21st]

A short stimulus won't work because of the fundamental underlying problem that our industrial base, and millions upon millions of good jobs, have been destroyed, and they will not be coming back.

The old economic theories no longer apply is this new era of greed, corruption and the global dominance of multi-national corporations.. Our government has become a tool of oppression, and that is why this one time progressive now supports cutting off the blood supply to the beast.

[rawmo]

save the 'bacon' thats f__ing funny. ge and verizon don't pay taxes? while people pay 30% of their income?

let the bullshit system collapse, we need a better one.

[Arkinight]

Good luck America, you're on your own.

[vrd180]

And the crazy thing is this is all made up. None of this is real. Money and the entire monetary system is nothing more than a game. It's not based in reality. Pick any problem in the world and the only thing stopping it from being solved is money. We have the resources, technology, and knowhow to solve any problem and yet we don't because of this imaginary thing called money. We are destroying ourselves over pieces of paper that we've convinced ourselves mean something. Wake up.

[rctube1958]

How can the guest describe a global financial scam then fault the rich (or anyone for that matter) for not paying their "fair share" to make the global economy right? Since it was a scam to start with, default on the debt. Let bondholders and stock holders take their medicine. Of course there will be a correction. It's unavoidable. Indeed, it's happening now, but it's concentrated in the working people.

Again, how this is made into a tax issue is beyond me.

[balbahut0g]

@rctube1958 The rich not paying their fair share is actually a slap in the face to the foreclosed,punkedmiddleclass,T­he QE is nothing but a bailout for the plutocrats,kleptocrats or oligarchs at the same time creating an image that everything is OK [only a willful ignorants believes that] and it buys time cause THEY KNOW that the prognosis is grim, of course ! they're the ones that create and dominate the system and now they need time to plan their escape from the pitchforks.

[WGS669]

You choose.

The current monetary system requires either infinite, exponential growth of real stuff, or ,,,

infinite currency printing via infinite debt issuance.

Either way... Asymptote would like a word with you.

When your sovereign is paying 0% on its debt, it is simply printing currency to service its debt,

It has defaulted.

When it is paying 1%, it's simply buying time on a spread sheet to provide its shepherds the opportunity to fleece the flock before the slaughter.

[ytgv3fc7]

"we're not manufacturing, we're not innovating"

um ... this is not a capital problem. People were fooled in the 1990's to buy cheap Chinese crap & force wages down. NOW they know it's a problem but it's irreversible: you have to cut trade with China for cheap goods. Capital makes no difference to this: the customer base has low wages that ONLY can afford cheap Chinese crap and ON CREDIT at that.

[ytgv3fc7]

#1 we don't know what is the fair share so how can you ask for the fair share?

#2 how do you know society and not market innovation(Personal) is the source of wealth?

#3 how is it we're still not taking the robbers (rich & poor but mostly rich now) and not sending them to the gallows?

[BroBroDude]

horse shit

[justjulie37]

The rise of the "Peasants" is coming people. Shit is going to hit the fan soon. You can only be fucked  so many times before you get angry and fed up !! What these people did to America is despicable, and they pretty much got off scott free. It's time for Americans to stop taking this bullshit !!

[GnomesAmok]

This guy is Jewish, he knows what hes talking about

[philais]

theokham...I know that and agree.

[philais]

Warren Buffet " a responcble wealthy investor"

uh...it was the "wealthy investor" that Congress & the Fed JUST BAILED OUT! What they r talking about wealthy TODAY is family owned small businesses that provide 70% of new jobs n america, 2 now pay more to the government rather than being able 2 reinvest that money n2 their companys.

"reasonable economists & business people" agree..we need another short term stimulas 2 take care o the failed QE1 & QE2...We need more govt spending.

What Crap!

[philais]

"Bipartisan agreemengt amoung "reasonalble minds" that there needs to be short term stimulas....

Didn't we just have QE1 and QE2? Did that work? uh no...So why do the same wrong thing again? why? Did that $4 trillion dollars in stimulas put people back to work and create jobs? uh no. It just created inflation and killed the dollar. (notice gold prices today?)

Oh...here it is... the rich are not being "asked" to pay their fair share...is that a voluntary or mandatory "asked"?

[TheOkham]

@philais Don't get fooled. All these QEs were simply handouts to the banks not real stimuli for real people

[philais]

Policy.

1. Stop the illegal unconstitutional wars.

2. Stop suppressing interest rates and robbing savers and those providing real capital to the markets.

3. Short term stimulas is increasing national debt. and printing money from nothing thereby punishing the purchasing power, through inflation, of the dollar. Killing poor and fixed income people the most......stop the stimulas.

4. Allow bankruptcy, punish the risk takers. Revalue assets and reset prices.

[philais]

Bankers and investors are scared. Why? They bet on the wrong horse and lost. And, deregulating rather that regulating is is answer pared with not bailing out the losers! Anyone taking a risk and losing takes the hit! Simple right? No government guarantees, no taxpayer bailouts, no government debt, no funny money backed by nothing being printed. Wrong bet....failure! That is the best market solution where caution is the name of the game. But of course that won't happen right?

[apagoogoo]

i just read a novel by a guy named steve toltz called 'a fraction of the whole'. he repeats the line, "the have-nots are getting their act together".

[Zenoah1]

Goldman Sachs are criminal.. period. Instead of sitting in jail.. the tax payer got to bail them out.. amazing.

[rjcmjoca]

The economy will go over the precipice anyway because that is what it was designed to do... There is no use fighting the system by exposing it because they seem to have stopped trying to pretend to fix things... They are out in the open... Other means need to be used!

[leland61]

@rjcmjoca You're right. You cannot fight the "system", you can only look to destroy it. That means not trying to fight and destroy an abstraction (the system), but eliminate those who create and perpetuate it.

[johngotting]

Very clearly put .

[daveruda]

Well this wont go well with the Teabaggers. These bastards hold world economy hostage...a small fraction of accual supporters. Its amazing...or rather depressing.

[Eraser7622]

@daveruda

No, you are not correct, but I doubt you care. The "Tea Baggers" as you use in the pejorative sense, have had their name co-opted by the establishment. the initial tea party was formed to seek liberty and a return to our Constitutional Republic... if you think this is a bad idea, move to another Country b/c this is the founding principal on which America was founded. The co-opting has tried to turn that message into one of protecting the wealthy & austerity.

Try critical thought

[daveruda]

@Eraser7622 Im not American...you know there is a world out there. And it is huring because of your policies in US. The baggers is a good term for the fake liberty lovers that lower taxes on the rich, disrupt and denies climate initiatives, hinder financial reform, uses constituion to justify corporate agendas. The tea party is bougt and paid for by Koch Industries with friends..

I know you have real grievances but also very misinformed.

[Eraser7622]

@daveruda

Well then, as a non-American, you should be more careful in your assertions about American's views. It is you who sounds mis-informed. The liberty movement is not owned by anybody.. the Koch brothers are involved in using their vast, and unjustly earned fortune to co-opt the tea party, but if you think Ron Paul or other true Tea Party supporters are working under some hidden corporate agenda, you may want to do a little actual research. Palin, Perry, etc = FAKE.

[daveruda]

@Eraser7622 Well the crazies got the midterm vote... the so called Tea Baggers took the economy hostage on budget negotiations. Ron Paul is not THE teaparty. Now its just another conservative-republican racist movement supported by special interests in corporate America.. Yeah...studies show most supporters are former republicans, white, negative towards minorities (very loud against Obama). Also very misinformed on a host of issues.. like taxes and constitiution (but love shouting about them).

[Eraser7622]

@daveruda

You have your mind made up, but your mind was made up FOR you, not by you. Shoot me a link or two to your so-called "studies" which are funded by objective entities, and I'll sell you waterfront property in Arizona. You are lost on liberty's principals... BUT, fortunately for you, your voice and opinion is fading and the country's patriots are standing up to defend your ability to utter such nonsense.

no need to reply, we're never going to agree.

[daveruda]

@Eraser7622 Most economists agree that a stimulus is needed now. But tea baggers incist on lowering taxes and cut spending. That is the most counterproductive thing to do at this point. BUT corporations can get away with a bit more money...so the agenda is pushed down peoples throats.

[Eraser7622]

@daveruda

Right, and "most economists" saw the collapse coming too.. "most economists" aren't "surprised" each and every time data comes out (daily now) which is worse than "expected".

Whatever country you're in/from, you might want to stick to your own internal affairs, b/c you certainly do not understand dittly about America's.

[daveruda]

@Eraser7622 Youre so funny..ticking of evey little stereotype. But economy is not an exact sience...you can never quite predict stuff..since its based on peoples choices ect. Lots of junk economists sure..but the situation has been deteriorating for decades in US and Europe. Income inequality is a driving force..."The spirit Level" show very clear correlation between income inequality and how well a society holding together. It was the same huge gaps in 1929 as 2008... same results.

[ytgv3fc7]

Quote, Buy, Print - where's my B-Surance?

[voicubogdan84]

Amazingly well said...

This has to be the Best interview I've seen this year :)

[annoloki]

@voicubogdan84 Have a look for his interviews with William K Black, if you liked this vid, I highly recommend :-)

[voicubogdan84]

@annoloki Thanks! :D

[dobberdoss]

Paul is a great listener to his guests and this makes him one of the best journalists to date

[dobberdoss]

Why there are not global riots and banks being destroyed on the street is beyond me. It's like many people are quite happy being slaves or don't even realize that they ARE slaves to banks, debts, government debts........

[invincibleironman3]

@dobberdoss because theyre idiots worrying about whats for dinner and what show is going to be on t.v.

they dont realize that they are slaves, and their media wont mention it either.

[dobberdoss]

@invincibleironman3

Your unfortunately right so what are people like you and me to do? Why can't people see this BS game for what it is?

[TheVikingNinja]

12:30 more like bread winners having to pay for illegal alien kid.

[cheddyrod]

Will the super rich get swept up in this deluge? Why do you think the mega big companies are moving to Asia?. GE has just recently moved the X-ray manufacturing plant to China and they are also opening a plant there to produced their aircraft technology. GM is now bigger in Asia than they are in North America. The mega big companies have either moved out or are in the process of moving out before the deluge.

[invincibleironman3]

@cheddyrod ....GM will move back to a poorer, less well off U.S. in a few years. Theyre just waiting to bring down the standard of living, and they'll come back FROM China. Thats another surprise you've got coming.

[dangerouslytalented]

@cheddyrod China is where the money is, because the people are being paid more and more.

[hobo59]

This guy is a lawyer, thus no reason to believe he knows anything about the economy. That said the world monetary system was based on physical gold. That was changed to the world economy based on thin air AKA credit. Thus a crash was inevitable. When the poor of the world refuse to pay off their debt to the rich we get collapse, no real surprise !

[annoloki]

@hobo59 Well you could listen to the actual words he says rather than be prejudiced by his job. Everything he's said matches up with what I already know, if you believe he's said something untrue, then speak up, otherwise your credentials as a random person with a youtube account are significantly lower so any point you make based purely on credentials rather than the substance of that which is said simply does not stand.

[hobo59]

@annoloki In other words you believe what he said because you are prejudiced by your own beliefs and thus ignored the fact that I simply agreed with his conclusion for a much simpler reason. Way to go twit, moving on TTFN !

[sparx832]

Keynesian policies got us into this mess, keynesian policies will not get us out of this mess...

Ron Paul 2012

[annoloki]

@sparx832 Keynesian policies didn't get us into this mess, what's gotten us into this mess is fraud, corruption, and lawlessness. When people steal stuff from your house, the answer isn't to not have any stuff, it's to have burglary laws. If you don't enforce laws, no underlying system can function correctly, all underlying systems will fail.

[ytgv3fc7]

@annoloki Keynesian policies ARE fraud, but the self-deceptive kind. Lots of warning in advance about this. Without Keynes' fraud, you don't get the rest of the fraud. The two go hand in hand: one is just mild-mannered ignorance (Keynes) while the rest is intentional.

[annoloki]

@ytgv3fc7 Everything you've just said is made up... do you have anything real to say?

[ytgv3fc7]

@annoloki NOTHING I said is made up: it's carved in stone fact. Keynesians require issuing excess credit + base money at the worst possible time, when there's already recession. This deepens every recession & it is in fact a fraud enacted upon the money supply & all who are forced to use it. It can't work when people abandon currency, so laws are used to CRIMINALIZE that departure (theft, fraud). This further, proven fact & happened TODAY, enables banks to defraud EVERYTHING. Now. Immediately

[petersz98]

@ytgv3fc7

So you think Herbert Hoover got it right?

[ytgv3fc7]

@petersz98 All economic stimulus from government is wrong. That's just how it goes. It's all miscalculated, misallocated, serving the purpose of re-election, buying votes from people's own money, ignoring actual long-term and immediate needs. The reason is there's no punishment for making mistakes: failing an election but doling out cash in the mean time is not punishment.

[petersz98]

@ytgv3fc7

So FDR was wrong! except err.. he was right! His Keynesian policies got the USA out of the Great Depression...of course it depends how you spend the money digging a hole and filling it in again is not a good idea but building the equivalent of the Hoover dam is a good idea. Obama is no FDR!

[ytgv3fc7]

@petersz98 wrong. That's called REVISIONIST HISTORY. The Great Depression ended when WW2 was won. All that really happened is the other nations became more broke, creating a ratio/arbitrage of trade. Without the war there was no recovery. That's right, recover from the 1930's began in 1945. That's a proven historical fact. That's where Bretton-Woods came from.

[ytgv3fc7]

@annoloki /watch?v=UScF9UaXiCM Keynesian economic policies are total rubbish, as is the lack of sound money

[annoloki]

@ytgv3fc7 You shouldn't just believe something people say just because they make a youtube video. They've got their fingers in the gold pie, they're a little on the biased side. Currencies were linked to gold, if it worked so well, why are they not anymore? Makes no difference if laws aren't enforced. Dollars were backed by gold, and then when people wanted their gold, they said "sorry you can only have dollars now". How did being gold backed help? It didn't. It made no difference at all.

[ytgv3fc7]

@annoloki I believe nothing. The video is for your benefit, not mine. I understand from first principles why sound money works and why gold is sound money. They were removed for one purpose only: to rob us. They prevented robbery. We let the thieves take over & they removed gold. If you let them take more soon there will be no right to grow your own food. You've already lost the right to your own medicine. Then it will be your home: your disobedience will then lead to your execution.

[annoloki]

@ytgv3fc7 "sound money" is just a term that lacks any significance in the real world. With gold backed currency, when the US government get in trouble it just confiscated it all, all the gold and all the guns in all of America wasn't enough to stop that happening. With fiat currency, they just print more. You can't fix corruption by changing what money's made of. Changing your currency is just lazy and will solve nothing, because you still have a populace that submits to the powerful corrupt.

[ytgv3fc7]

@annoloki no, SOUND MONEY means money not based on fraud or faith, and that's incredibly significant: the most important financial concept in the history of all civilization. With gold-backed currency there was no more confiscation than today through inflation. Some find a way to skip the inflation, some found a way to not get any gold confiscated, nor guns, nor booze, no matter the prohibition enacted. Using fiat currency is robbery & fraud & we can never tolerate that.

[jstncbllr]

@ytgv3fc7 "SOUND MONEY means money not based on fraud or faith... history of all civilization"

Money is a representation of debt/credit between two parties. It was never something people used for it's intrinsic value.

Are you aware of "tally" systems? A stick with the amount owed, that was broken in two parts: the "stock" and the "stub". Or clay tablets sealed in containers?

Coinage was used when a sovereign demanded payments in coins he created. Not because people thought coins were "sound".

[ytgv3fc7]

@jstncbllr NO IT IS NOT. Money is NEVER credit/debt. Money is tangible trade items. DEBT is just debt, a CONTRACT, an agreement. NOT MONEY.

I am aware of tally-sticks. Highly unreliable, easily corrupted, as easily as printed money. Unacceptable.

Coinage was used in GOLD AND SILVER because they have tangible value. Not in dirt bricks or wood or pocket-lint. Because gold & silver are SOUND MONEY. 100% conscious, evolved decision.

[jstncbllr]

@ytgv3fc7 "Money is NEVER credit/debt"

Historically it is. Your wishes aren't reality, aren't evidence.

"tally-sticks...unacceptable"

Sigh. Look, I'm not proposing we use tallies *now*. But historically, tallies (or similar tokens) were typical. You were making a *historical* argument for "sound money", right?

Coins usually trade at values *above* their value as metal. It wasn't the metal that gave them value. It was the sovereign.

Here's an academic paper on the history:

bit dot ly/qHKqSk

[ytgv3fc7]

@jstncbllr no, your imagination deceives you. Historically shells, sticks, rocks, gold, silver, copper, iron, bronze have been money, as well as children, tools and land. Coins are valued only above their metal for one reason: NEVER the sovereign. Only the difficulty in making a coin look the same as what's recognized, with craftsmanship, while producing a cheaper fraud. Tally-sticks are atypical, a once-in-history situation.

[jstncbllr]

@annoloki "You can't fix corruption by changing what money's made of"

Precisely. Instead lets root out the corruption. Of couse the people have to demand it, and not be idiots :(

Even a state that pegs it's currency to some commodity is essentially using a "fiat" concurrency. People don't spontaneously use metal as money, despite what gold bugs think. A widely accepted currency only exists when everyone has liabilities that must be met with that currency. Taxes create this liability.

[annoloki]

@ytgv3fc7 Gold based currencies get debased too. The problem with money at the moment is that the super rich are usurping it all out of the system. You think making it gold backed would stop that from happening? Go ask the people of El Salvador, Columbia, Romania, what they think of having their country ripped apart for gold. Printing money causes less damage than grinding up an entire mountain, just to extract the gold to make little mountains of it locked up in bank vaults to make profit.

[ytgv3fc7]

@annoloki no, gold-based currency can't ever be debased. You can always check the gold purity so you know it's not debased. Of course you need the guns to protect your money, be it gold, food, land. If your only defense against robbery is to be poor, your life is already ended. Printing money grinds down mountains: it just ensures you never have the right to what's in there. Only your slave masters. Money-tickets printed at will dictate the WHO only. Not the IF or HOW or WHERE.

[jstncbllr]

@ytgv3fc7 Hey, it's you again.

What a silly video you have there. One guy quotes Thatcher, lol. The other guy believes it was the UK's sound money that enabled her great empire. I'm sure "sound money" is also responsible for sliced bread.

Two guys fantasizing about the1800's who don't realize that public spending = private savings. Nor that a state w/ fiat currency and floating exchange rates, by definition, cannot "go broke" in its own currency.

[ytgv3fc7]

@jstncbllr Tell that to Argentina, Zimbabwe or Weimar Germany. You are deeply in error. Floating exchange rates & printing currency robs every person who is not a printer, transfers wealth only to the currency printers & destabilizes economies.

[jstncbllr]

@ytgv3fc7 "Argentina, Zimbabwe or Weimar... You are deeply in error"

All that I'm in "deeply" is your BS.

There are huge differences between the US economy / politics and what happened in those countries.

Each of your 3 examples has a historical context with serious political problems. Zimb, for example, lost most of its domestic production and reached 80% unemployment as a result of Mugabe's land policies.

Using these as arguments against sovereign currency is just ignorant.

bit. ly/nnBSn8

[ytgv3fc7]

@jstncbllr Private savings can't ever be public spending. The two are always opposite to each other. Private savings is never the decision of 2 people and is always 100% personal ownership. Public spending is never the decision of just 1 person & has no respect of personal rights or needs.

[jstncbllr]

@ytgv3fc7 "Private savings can't ever be public spending"

Have you heard of national income accounting? I'm not talking about individuals, I'm talking about the entire gov't and non-gov't sectors.

Assuming zero net exports:

Taxes - Gov't Spending = Non-govt Savings - Non-govt Investment

This is an economic identity, not an ideology.

If the non-govt sector (as a whole!) wants to increase its savings, i.e. pay down its debt, the gov't has to reduce taxes, increase spending, or both.

[jstncbllr]

@jstncbllr Oops, I mean to say:

Gov't Spending - Taxes = Non-govt Savings - Non-govt Investment

It obviously wrong how I had it before.

Also, note that if we have a trade deficit, that gets subtracted off the right hand side, meaning less private savings as money escapes the system. If we have both a budget surplus *and* a trade deficit, then that *necessarily* means the private sector is accumulating debt (savings are decreasing).

That's why a US budget surplus (right now) would be very bad.

[ytgv3fc7]

@jstncbllr ya, fraud? Theft? I've heard of that. Private savings is personally owned, public spending is after theft from the private purse. Private savings is individual and nothing else: there is no other definition without using fraud.

taxes-govt spending = non-gov't savings: fraud. Reality: Taxes = gov-spending now+gov spending later = some % of total private savings taken. This is the facts: what you put up is purely ideology.

[jstncbllr]

@ytgv3fc7 There are two parts to the national economy: public and private.

Taxes remove money from the private sector.

Public spending (gov't buying "stuff") puts money into the private sector.

If the gov't spends less than it taxes, the private sector overall loses money (its debt increases).

If the gov't stops taxing, then the dollar itself becomes worthless -- the only reason it has value is that we all need it to pay taxes.

So, are you saying you don't want to have a national currency?

[ytgv3fc7]

@jstncbllr public spending puts money into personal salaries of government workers, into black-box budgets and into the hands of contractors who only exist to work for the government, like munitions factories.

If the gov't stops taxing this can't at any time remove the value of the dollar. The only reason it has value to those earning them for trade, backed by something. It is backed by nothing now: that's why its value is declining rapidly vs valuable things like copper, gold, silver, land.

[jstncbllr]

@ytgv3fc7 "public spending puts money into salaries of govt workers, contractors..."

Yes, people who *work* for the govt, but are not themselves the govt. They're private citizens w/ private bank accounts. Don't get me wrong, I'm against war profiteering, etc, but that public money is spent into *private* corporations.

Govt also spends a lot on SSI/medicare recipients, aka: private citizens.

[ytgv3fc7]

@jstncbllr PUBLIC servants taking PUBLIC money by force: theft.

It needs to stop & now.

They ARE government any time they get that money without authorization by each person who is forced to give it up and it's wrong.

Those PUBLIC, non-private, MILITARY corporations are not part of the regular private economy whatsoever.

[jstncbllr]

@ytgv3fc7 "theft...not part of...private economy"

State money exists so that govt can buy *real* domestic goods. By definition, sellers of goods are not govt. They pay taxes.

This is like arguing with a creationist about evolution.

I'm not even arguing opinion here. I'm just explaining how the existing system works, for better or worse. Aka: reality.

You mostly make universal assertions and value judgements based on circular reasoning. Saying something STRONGLY doesn't make it, you know, true.

[ytgv3fc7]

@jstncbllr Actually #1 many producers / sellers pay no taxes at all.

#2 government can own the means of production outside the private economy. In Canada we have these & we call them Crown Corporations.

Reality is where I come from. Try it out for the first time ever. Don't you ever get tired of the fiction you claim is reality?

[jstncbllr]

@ytgv3fc7 "The only reason [US$] has value [is] to those earning them for trade"

Why does anyone accept the dollar as payment? Where does its value come from? Why would any sane person trade real goods for US$?

Only reason: they need US$ to pay taxes.

But if you have another reason, let's hear it.

[ytgv3fc7]

@jstncbllr I am absolutely saying I do not want to have a national currency. I'd rather see international currencies in energy + precious metals and local currencies in the form of whatever people choose to use as trade items.

[dangerouslytalented]

@sparx832 Deregulation is not keynesianism. Tax cuts for the rich are not keynesianism.

[ytgv3fc7]

@dangerouslytalented yes it is - printing money to hand to the rich is Keynesian and it is the same as tax cuts. Doesn't matter what taxes you pretend you cut or didn't, the money-printing cancels out any taxes paid. Printing money is worse than "de-regulation" it's "destruction of all regulation now and in the future" based on how much money is printed.

[dangerouslytalented]

@ytgv3fc7 No, that is ridiculous. Keynes knew that in order for an economy to function, more money had to be in the hands of the POOREST, as they spend all of it, whereas the richest will simply use it for speculation which drives up prices without growing the actual economy.

[wolfengheist]

If that made sense why not let "poor" people rob banks so they can "stimulate the economy?

[dangerouslytalented]

@wolfengheist Because the management of the banks already are.

[ytgv3fc7]

@dangerouslytalented You're talking nonsense. Putting money into the hands of poor people so they'll spend it is the same thing as putting it into the hands of the people they GIVE THE MONEY TO for the spending. Keynes is not about keeping the poor from being poor, as that will not keep them from being poor. Allocation of this nature is extreme theft: steal from the just-above-poor to give to the most-rich to balance the always-poor hoping to avoid riots. Good luck on that.

[RedTory59]

@sparx832 It is completely delusional to think that Ron Paul's retrograde brand of laissez-faire economics will solve the present fiscal crisis. If anything, it's the sort of unregulated "free market" nonsense that he espouses that got us into this mess in the first place.

[slewofdamascus]

@RedTory59 I suggest you read a Ron Paul book. I support TRN ($). I'm not a "one-issue" or "one-ideology" individual. I support dodd-frank - It's about the right kind of regulations. Every single mainstream politician, right or left, save RP, is in the pocket of the corporate oligarchs. Ron Paul is a friend to SMALL business. THAT is what matters. The answer lies with favoring small business over large corporations. Large corporations (like large governments) are inherently evil and twisted.

[ytgv3fc7]

@RedTory59 not one second of free market activity got us into this mess. There's been not a shred of such activity for 100 years.

[fuzzjunky]

let it go over the cliff. if it needs "stimulus" then it's broken. stop feeding the broken monster

[asphyxiafeeling]

@fuzzjunky

if they allow the market to crash whichever politician is in power will suffer. so there's an incentive for elected officials to use stimulus!

[zephyrsimon]

bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out! bail out!

[choobie12]

Subprime car loans sees to be the new thing, increasing at a rate of 40% per year. The interest rate and payment peak created by subprimes makes it something that should just be banned.

[Mahoivlich]

So if everyone commits armed robbery is it no longer a crime?

[amyntazoe]

infinite growth is not possible on a finite planet.

[fuzzjunky]

@amyntazoe exactly. we are not entitled to unbridled usage of the earths resources. we should be thankful we have financial problems and not ecological catastrophe

[ytgv3fc7]

@fuzzjunky sorry check again: we do have ecological catastrophe. Fukushima will leak massive radiation into the water & air for a decade or more, crops are failing due to high heat & low rains across the planet, except for the other lucky farmers hit with flash-floods which wiped out their crops anyhow. We're about to see the billion-person-die-off. See, it's hitting the entire food-chain all at once. Our food's food's food's food is dying so each one up the chain dies then we die.

[ytgv3fc7]

@choobie12 yup - and that's called the free market. By letting each pair of traders agree on what is fact & not fiction to trade, perception from non-players or nonsense is wiped out. People can still make mistakes but they're acting in good faith with facts. Then it's only nature's surprises which can still smack you down (e.g. crop failures).

[guitardds]

Haven't we heard this before.

[chocomalk]

Great report. I hear Brooksley is notoriously reclusive, it would be great to hear her take on this on TRN.

Our present system is so faulty, because of short term cost analysis, many scientific breakthroughs will never get funding and will be lost.

An example of this was research that helped certain deaf people, there was no funding because the analysis showed that there would never be a return on the technology because the "small market" was too limited.

[liquidus2172]

Precipice Precipice Precipice Precipice !!! (final destination 2 style lol)

[latlanticcityphil]

we whhet thru 9 stimulus,when is enough is enough !

[OurFadedGarden]

Bankers, when cooked just right, taste like pork.

[Lanparth]

@OurFadedGarden

sadly, most humans do apparently.

[RedGaribaldi]

@OurFadedGarden and politicians, when cooked just right, taste like chicken.

[r0ll0t0masi]

@OurFadedGarden

But crucifying is more fun...

[Hapirott]

@OurFadedGarden We could make them into sausages. "Bankers Sausage", 200% fat!