Actually, the ancients did account for all of this. It is called the precession of the equinoxes. Look it up. This is why in Moses' time his people worshipped the Bull, he moved them into the age of Aries, hence the blasphemy of worshipping the Bull. Then Jesus lead the people into the age of Pisces. In a few hundred years we will be moving into the age of Aquarius.
@UseryHee - this is the Internet. Idiots who don't have a clue arguing with idiots who think they can convince idiots they're idiots for thinking they do have a clue. It's that simple.
@MadHighway re: Plain old horseshit, and you know it.
The weak mind attacks. The strong mind holds interest. occultpriestess has a story you have yet to hear and most likely you will have little tolerance for but note that astrology is a ancient science with a significant history to explore. If only I had more time ...
There is nothing in astrology that has been supported and no causal mechanism has been demonstrated; in other words, no indepedent confirmation of force, process, or cause. As such, the claim that a process is at work directing our lives is indefensible, because there is no evidence provided by those making the claim. Show us how to duplicate this alleged force that acts on people's lives.
Astrology is akin to religion-it requires blind belief, not evidence or data.
@MadHighway I'm 53. I entered psychic training as a skeptic at 27. I knew going in how controversial the topic is. Well guess what? I had my ass handed to me on a platter. The language has meaning. It isn't designed to con people out of their money. That's Randi 101. In fact IMO no one is more deluded than the skeptic collective. Outsiders alluding to knowledge about a field when in fact they have zero training in the subject in question.
@photopicker - "psychic training" - oh yeah. Thus with such training you'd be able to do something that demonstrates your skills. So let's devise a test that we both agree is fair, and agree 100% on the rules up front. You'll do the simple test and prove that you have the power. Well?
But then you'll suggest it can't be tested, as astrologer always say their ability can't be tested. But hang they say they are accurate! So how can the untestable be accurate? Give me a break.
@zzytrewq Ever have an amazing idea pop into your head? Ever have a dream that was so real you thought it was real? Do you experience conversations in your head? Do thoughts influence you? If a random idea arises in your consciousness and you act on it physically what "psychic" ability did you demonstrate? After spending some time with the DSM-IV I have come to the conclusion that this manual is a bible for mystics (psychics). The difference is language and content. The events are the same.
@MadHighway re: There is nothing in astrology that has been supported and no causal mechanism has been demonstrated; in other words, no indepedent confirmation of force, process, or cause. As such, ....
This statement assumes that science is aware of and can measure and categorize all forces known and unknown at this time. While I agree that astrology and religion are similar in means of assimilation I don't believe science is at a point where it can definitively dismiss astrology.
@photopicker The burden of proof is on the astrologers here, exactly the same way the atheism vs. religion debate places it on the faithful.
Astrology, and all other supernatural claims, are to be dismissed until they can come up with a scrap of convincing evidence. Thus far, all I've seen are poor statistics and post-hoc fallacies.
@Shockna - well said. No astrologer or religious fruit can come up with any supporting evidence so they spend their time getting personal or attack science as if that makes a difference.
To an astrologer something being ancient with lots of anecdotal support means it is true. On that basis so is the existence unicorns.
@zzytrewq Prove it. Superstition is a word skeptics use often to showcase their superior intellect while demanding that any information system prior to the speakers existence is based on unintelligent human beings deluded by their own gullibility and therefore can be dismissed without further investigation. And 4 year physics students buy into it hook, line, and sinker. Odd thing is the higher up the intellectual ladder you go the more open minded the practitioners are. An established fact.
@photopicker - in the world of science it is up to those individuals making the claims to prove it. Astrologers claim astrology is a method by which a persons traits can be read from the heavens. There have been numerous studies (I believe about 35) that have found NO supporting evidence. On that basis I'll stick with the rational belief that is all superstition.
Astrology defines no mechanism, offers no hypothesis, has no theory and it would require divine intervention to be true.
Hi, I have a general question related to astrology. If suppose in the future, there are human colonies on the moon, what would be the Sun sign of a child born on the moon? How would we measure the local time and co-ordinates of the birth? What about a child born aboard a spaceship on its way to mars?
And finally, do the above questions tell you something about astrology?
@GraceGlenmore Does Astrology even need "debunking", I thought intelligent society and distanced itself from such a human centric view of the universe long ago.
@ARecordMachine There are legit arguments against astrology but most people don't understand it enough to form a proper argument. This video is an example of such.
@GraceGlenmore Very true. This video is a wonderful example about how ignorant many intelligent people are about astrology on the most fundamental of levels.
@ARecordMachine Imo astrology is not a human centric view- instead it is a view that humans are influenced by something bigger and grander than themselves. The universe has a way of effecting everything- and in this case the electromagnetic fields of planets effect individuals through frequencies. Why would the noting of these influences be any different than any other observation we make?
@MadHighway There were some studies done a long time ago involving clams and the cycles of activity relating to moon cycles. The short of the story is that even when the clams were moved away from their natural habitat they responded to the moon cycles within the region they were tested as if they were at home. Unfortunately it is impossible to be on top of the inordinate number of studies over the last 100 years. I wish I could download it all!
"Moon cycles"? Do you mean change of lunar phase (visible light) or lunar tides (water movements)? Remember there are solar tides equal to the moon's.
Keeping those clams away from their habitat for many, many generations likely would result in their need for "moon cycles", whatever those are, to diminish as a survival trait, unless it continued to help individual clams to survive and breed.
Astrology is about energies - the potentials present at any given moment. So the sign in which the sun rose when you were born, is in fact your sign, regardless of the how the earth's axis has progressed. Bill Nye's psuedo-assessment here points to why modern science still has such little understanding of how the universe works. As dogmatic and blinded as religion!
@zzytrewq I think that what 'balancebeautyblog' meant was that Bill Nye's video was simply inaccurate about the fundamentals of astrology. He did no research, and quickly dismissed it as hogwash- when he didn't even have the basics right (it's not measured by the stars' alignment)- this is similar to what we see religious people do with science- like evolution- they dismiss it as hogwash without doing the research or even understanding it at a basic level.
Do not compare evolution to astrology. Evolutionn is a valid scientific theory backed up by overwhelming evidence and data.
Astrology has NO such body of evidence and NO data! Nothing's measurable, you say; only the experienced follower can understand, you say; there is no consensus among astrology believers as to how the concept functions.
Astrology is not a science; it's a pseudo-scientific religion of which whose followers have yet to apply scientific methodology.
@cambryn - regardless of whether Nye has got it right there have been no studies confirming what astrologers believe. Yet they say they are accurate and have never produced any information as evidence. None. Zip. Squat.
Religious folks dismiss evolution because it goes against their dogma. They don't and can't provide proof for their stance so they just say "it didn't happen" despite the overwhelming evidence. Religion and astrology survive due to ignorance.
@zzytrewq Since the dawning of a more scientific age, astrology was written off by the scientific community and not properly studied. There've been some! :) Carl Jung did research on 486 couples- he found a statistically significant presence of the aspects traditionally considered indicative of a satisfactory relationship. Astrology is just filled with indicators- much like your DNA has indicators of being prone to cancer- doesn't mean you'll get it- just that you are more likely to.
@cambryn - "...and not properly studied" Who should do the proper studies? Astrologers haven't. They have produced no scientific papers confirming any of their beliefs. For astrology to "work" would require at least divine intervention. As there is no evidence of a supernatural being or grand plan I'd say that just about confirms astrology is mere superstition.
Carl Jung et al see what they want to see. Without proper statistical studies it is just anecdotes.
@MadHighway Leaving the mechanisms of astrology to belief in "energies" is usually a new age spiritualist view. It's the philosophical side of the debate, although a poor one as it tries to sound scientific to keep up with the world. But don't get spiritual views mixed up with scientific theories.
Force acting on something. Kinetic force of hurricane winds kincrease potential energy of a house wall, and it falls down. That force is measured in pounds per square inch.
Our atmosphere weighs 14.7 PSI, as such.
What is this alleged solar and planetary force kicking around people's lives?
@MadHighway it's not kicking around people's lives- it's just an indicator of things- like i said- Why don't I call the force 'astrologian magnetic force' or 'A.M.F.' Does giving it a name make you feel safer? Better? Like it's more real? Lol
Calling it AMF doesn't make it real--its being real woudl make it real. But we know what's real about planets because we never stop studying them. There's never been a case of a weird energy found that somehow affects people.
If we launch a crewed mission to Mars, are those people gonna become Mars-ified? We put men on the moon, and their character traits while there didn't change, and not after.
@MadHighway I already addressed how we are 'set' at birth on a particular frequency- you will always be on that frequency- and travelling doesn't change it, to my knowledge. I don't know any astronauts and thus can't say if there were changes. Neither do you.
Exactly- having a name for something does not make it real! That was my point. We have never had scientist set out to prove the influence of planets onpeople. Imagine what we could discover if scientists tried.
I can read up many, many interviews and medical reports on lunar astronauts--I don't have to know them.
"We have never had scientist set out to prove the influence of planets on people"--because in centuries of observaing planets, NOTHING AT ALL FROM PLANETS has shown itself to be affecting us. Except to you astrology believers, but you won't describe how this alleged force works. You just say it's there.
Wrong. It's up to YOU to prove this force exists, not scientists.
@MadHighway Up to me, and non scientist- to scientifically prove this? Now who is illogical? We need some astrology/scientists- but unfortunately that's a rare thing indeed- I know of none- because of how our society is, it's rare you'll see that combo because of how we are taught from a young age. This is a societal influence of large proportions
It's up to you to convince scientists that the planets have a force that only you can see and understand, but that no instrument can measure.
I've told you the facts about planets. They can't just make up some form of energy and spew it out--otherwise, we'd know about it. Planets reflect light, some radiate heat, two have magnetic fields, and the rest are far and frozen. What force could they possibly emit?
No, you've never directly addressed how planets that have been studied for centuries with instruments of better and better acuity show no signs of new, as-yet-unknown forces. We've sent probes with instruments far greater in sensitivity that ours to Mars and found a cold, dry, dead, UV-baked desert, no magnetic field, no life. And you say there's a powerful force somehow emanating from there that we can't detect.
@MadHighway Just to go back a bit - by mechanisms I meant how the sun, moon and planets relate to the formation of a human personality. Most of the astrological community holds the belief that each planets carries an "energy" that holds sway over a particular part of a person's personality. While spiritually this can make sense, scientifically there is no evidence to support it. It is a philosophical belief, nothing more. And this particular part of astrology isn't science.
@MadHighway However, it is worth noting that the beliefs about how astrology works are only a few of the theories astrology holds. When one is talking about personality formation and evolutionary psychology there are elements, such as how the cycle of a year had affected the evolution and development of human personality, that make sense when explained. They are only theories just like any other. But I myself believe they hold some merit.
@GraceGlenmore I believe that too. I have varied beliefs on what influences us- and was not implying that astrology is the only one. Anyone who does is an idiot :) Thanks for bringing the tone to a nice place.
Energy is a force that causes a reaction. Sunlight warms me and it also warms rocks. This alleged "planet energy" then must also affect rocks, moss, penguins, trees, and melt ice like sunlight, whuich is energy too.
Descrbe this energy, how it works, and how it forms within a distant, invisible, frozen-hard, lifeless icy planet.
In other words, astrology is not exempt from explaining itself.
You described personal opinion, which is not fact. I submitted facts about planets in their composition, characteristics, and what years of observation show. You say you have new information and all we have to do is take you on faith.
That sounds dangerously like religion. It too claims an unseen, immeasurable force that affects human lives, but its beleivers shy away from facts as well.
Your alleged planetary force very likely is not there; have you considered this?
@MadHighway of course i have considered this! It could not be there- and I'm just using astrology as a crutch when really i'm just awesome at analyzing people psychologically and it just makes me think about how to approach people better- either way- I have found it useful- and I believe my analysis and that of others was not fluke :)
@MadHighway of course i have considered this! It could not be there- and I'm just using astrology as a crutch when really i'm just awesome at analyzing people psychologically and it just makes me think about how to approach people better- either way- I have found it useful- and I believe my analysis and that of others was not fluke :)
No, that would introduce only more selection bias to your argument. You have too much of that going already.
You have to describe how this alleged planetary force works given that we know what forces planets are capable of, since we haven't seen anything else.
Build the instruments to test your prediction of your alleged astrological planetary force, show us your apparatus, methods, and results, and IF they can be duplicated and results confirmed, we'd have to believe you.
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@gothicsoul100 He just told you in this video that it is fucked up even if the stars had some influence on your life (which they don't...they are suns...objects) the system is in error....my God!!
If astrologers can't explain how astrology works and science can't either, that means both sides of the fence know deep down it is bullshit. Now if we can get one of the true believers to tell us they can't work it out either that would end all debate.
Science's view changes on what's observed, faith rejects that observation to keep blind belief preserved. That's why they're "at war" per say. I don't see how you can get harmony out of that.
@victorseay a great astrologer ones said germany would have a graet and powerful that was bron in 1889 10 years later hitler took over or a a 1000yaers befor a nother astrologer said a inprison princess would become queen of england 40 years later guees what happed
@gothicsoul100 - LOL. So Hitler was 10 when he took control of Germany according to astrologers. Not many people can become chancellor before puberty. Well done Adolf!
124 people will experience troubling times this week as the moon rises in Scorpio and a person of reason will uncomfortably obliterate their long held security blanket.
What he just described is called 'sidereal' astrology- and that is not used to determine your astrological sign.
The constellations are not used in determining your astrological sign. It's about the earth's alignment with the sun. At the time, when astrology was 'founded' the stars and planets WERE aligned- but they thought it was determined by stars. Now we use planets... Bill Nye obviously doesn't know much about astrology- but he's still a cool dude. And he's a Sagittarius.
Makes no difference because ther is no scientific data whatsoever which would support the claim that the position of stars at the time of your bith OR the alligment of the earth to the sun effects the course of your life or personality in any way. Astrology is an outdated concept that has no place in modern world because there are no facts to support it,
Astrological predictions have failed time and time again when scientifically tested. So if anything it's a religion, not science.
@PuoskarinRuoska Astrology should not be used for divination purposes, as that is utter crap. But I do believe that a full astrological chart can teach us a lot about a person, because i believe that people are effected by the quantum mechanations of the planets. I think that when in the womb and being developed our brains are minutely influenced by many things we can only imagine- including (but of course not limited to) the planets- read bell's theory and apply it- i think it makes sense.
That might be possible but I see no reason to believe it as we lack all evidence to support the claim and that's what really matters. I'm not saying that Bell's theorem is false, or that there cannot be events whoch efect us during birth on quantum leve. But since there are no studies on this, it's impossible to say if they really effect us and on what way. I could just as well use Bell's theorem as "proof" that the position of my right hand at any given time determines personalities.
@PuoskarinRuoska Well, to each his own. I've found that I can learn a lot about a person from looking at their astrological chart- and I have not had a time where my analysis of a chart (FULL chart- not just 'what's your astrological sign'- because you actually have SEVERAL which constitute your chart) was wrong about a person. I believe in astrology due to observation over the years of never having had it fail me. But most people will never put in the time to learn about it for themselves.
The point I'm making it that there are alltogether zero stufies supporting the validity of astrology as a character evaluation method. If you seriously believe that astrology is anything more than an outdated form of religion backed up by confirmation bias and selection bias, by all means, write a paper on it and get it published on a peer-reviewed scientific journal and come back to me.
Before any evidence is presented, I'll put as much weight to astrology as to unicorns and fairies.
@PuoskarinRuoska I would love for a scientist to work on proving my theory! Sadly I find that religion and science always seem to be at war- when both can exist harmoniously. I have my beliefs based on yrs of analysis and research- and you have yours based on little backed with a general air of dismissal for what you don't understand/have made clear by others. I am an atheist, but make it a point to study religions. I think of astrology as a form of psychology based on the physical, actually.
Like I said. If you have evidence that can withstand peer-review make a paper and I'll take you seriously. There are people on this planet who have "years of research" that they use to justify their beliefs in all kinds of things from UFOs to faith healing. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, I simply hope you understand I cannot alter my world view based on somebody's personal account - that's not how science works and you should know this.
@PuoskarinRuoska I've seen credible UFO evidence in person. Of course I spent 25 years engaged in the study of psychic and energetic phenomenon. Science is powerful but equally illusive in areas like medicine and energy. Apples will never be Oranges nor can you prove you had lunch yesterday. Science will most likely never be compatible with the subjective. So in fact science is not an authority over real experience and experience rules even if it is not easily understood.
@MadHighway I know zip about astrology but for sure before I would post a video designed for a junior high school audience of uniformed individuals I would likely vest at least 5 years studying the craft in order to understand the world in which it thrives. I studied psychic phenomenon for well over 12 years. My experiences may be subjective to you but I can assure you they were very real to me and I took the time to understand the craft from within the system in question. Skeptics don't.
@photopicker "My experiences may be subjective to you but I can assure you they were very real to me"
Personal anecdotes may be interesting but they are not evidence.
"studying the craft in order to understand the world in which it thrives." Astrology believers claim the "craft" thrives in the natural world in which we all live. They do not offer any duplicable proof of a force or mechanism that is affecting people, however, but they must or their claim is unsubstantiated.
@MadHighway The notion that an anecdote is not evidence is a rule that blinds scientists studying the subjective. An anecdote came from somewhere. It is not without existence. Even the physicalists who practice psychiatry use hypnosis to study anecdote with their patients. Remember we are talking about two very different worlds; mind and matter. They belong to the same universe but have dramatically different function and aspect.
Personal anecdotes are fraught with memory lapse, memory shift, selection bias, etc. The human brain evolved to seek patterns even where none exist and will impose one as needed, such as astrology, deities, and a super-natural realm.
Objective reasoning removes these faults and allows true, unfettered observation to take place. I look at a star; it's red; I compare and contrast it to other red stars. I don't assume red means anything other than that it's a red star.
@MadHighway Your first paragraph is from logic and reason 101. It has been used for quite some time to reduce spiritual and paranormal events to mistakes in perception. I LOL because I have some experiences that truly defy logic and reason; i.e. telekinesis, telepathy, clairvoyance, UFO's, etc. So while the physicalists assert their POV as the only real truth in many circles this POV alludes to a lack of reference and education in such matters; speaking strictly from 25+ years of research.
That you use an artificial label like 'phyiscalist' is as bad as devout Christians using the non-term 'evolutionist'. These are contrivances used in order to discredit scientific methodology as just another way of doing things.
You must provide evidence and data of an unseen force and process that somehow alters the human body from a rest state.
At the root of it you seek to prove that people are not responsible for their actions--the stars and planets did it!
@MadHighway The brain imposing anything on mental processes is a subject of great debate. There is no doubt that the mind is indeed a slippery slope in terms of impression, perception, and cognition. Some believe that science today is the ultimate authority and simply erases everything that precedes it but this is an erroneous path. There is far more to the mystery in the universe that science can analyze or measure at this time. I have worked on ultrasound, electron beam microscopes, etc.
The brain is made of matter organized in a certain way and subject to physical laws the same as a rock is. It's a chemical machine. There's nothing special about the molecules, and there's no way for chemicals to overturn physics. We can pretend we do through imagination--sci-fi does it all the time--but that's imagination, another by-product of chemical processes.
The 'mind' is subject to physics the same as any other organ.
@MadHighway This statement of course implies that we know everything about the brain and I can absolutely assure you that is not truth. I study with leading neurologists who readily claim to know very little about the brain. We do not have adequate tools for measuring personal experience. Until we do so personal experience is the highest order of truth in our universe. It is beyond intellect. The mind cannot be located. This is called the mind body problem. Research it.
@MadHighway The brain is the center of the physical existence but not necessarily responsible for mental impressions one may experience in a lifetime. Dismissing the imagination is a paradox. Without the imagination there is no means to explore the unknown. Thoughts and dreams are responsible for great acts in physicality. None of these aspects can be ignored unless we attempt to reduce everything to a physical process. At this time there isn't enough evidence to satisfy this conclusion.
There is one system: the natural world. For instance, conditions and processes on the moon are markedly different than on Earth, but both locales are subject to the same physics.
Astrology believers never describe the forces they claim are at work and have not provided evidence of such alleged natural forces so that the rest of us can test them.
@MadHighway Few people are scientists. Do you consider consciousness a function of the natural world? How do you measure consciousness? No doubt there is a gap between scientific evidence and subjective credibility. I would like to think that at some point in the next 100 years we will have measurement systems that crack open the human experience to a new level of understanding thereby placing the subjective closer to the world of the objective at least in terms of measurement data.
The brain is composed of about three pounds of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, sodium, and potassium, as well as a few other elements in a very intricate array--which is subject to physics and chemistry the same as any other natural process.
Yes, consciousness is a function of nature. No asatology believer has provided proof of unseen natural forces acting upon people; they merely claim the effect is there and skirt the issue of substantiation. Sorta like cold fusion.
@MadHighway That's a myth we rely on the subjective all the time. Doesn't mean the outcome will map to expectation but I can assure you if we were friends and the food made me sick and I tell you I may have no objective evidence but most likely you will take my word for it. So in fact while science loves that which is highly repeatable and contained much of life is anything but that and the subjective is where the real work begins.
Objective evidence in the scenario you suggest would be confirmed bacterial contamination of the food. Subjective evidence is when someone claims the food made him sick.
Science doesn't 'love' anything. It's a methodology, not a belief system.
Astrology believers have yet to offer data that reveals an underlying mechanism coming from somewhere and which influences people's behavior.
@MadHighway Would you agree that science is a human construct? Would you agree that science is evolving? I surmise that the subjective holds a relevant place in the natural world even if the paradigm does not readily map to scientific process. In terms of astrology I am at a loss to discuss this particular topic so I am neither defending nor denying its platform as a science or field of study. I'm not one to dismiss field of study since I have no way to know how it was conceived or experienced.
@MadHighway Humanity is most often blind and at times all we have is the sensory system, intellect, and experience to draw from. Remember that in the subjective experience there is nothing to prove. This effect occurs the instance another entity enters the equation and is due to the ontological gap.
"Remember that in the subjective experience there is nothing to prove."
That's very convenient, isn't it? It also sounds very irresponsible.
What's blinded humanity is its desire for a happy ending: a friendly universe designed for humanity. It's not. We're a by-product of natural forces and processes and there's no verifiable evidence for anything supernatural or paranormal like astrology and deities.
@MadHighway If there is no verifiable evidence why then does science even mention supernatural and paranormal? If it didn't exist why does it exist in symbol? Are humans idiots unless trained to be scientists or is it possible that humanity is a work in progress reverse engineering the most sophisticated living system any could ever imagine. It is in fact beyond our comprehension thus the need for expanding our capability to measure such forces. I am of the belief that science is quite young.
There's no peer-reviewed science I've ever seen that puts forth evidence and data for astrology, lunacy, ghosts, deities, telekinesis, ESP, and so on.
I don't know what you mean by "it exists in symbol." I don't know what you mean by "the most sophisticated living system any could imagine."
It seems you believe that there is more than observations, data, evidence, and proof, but that's not science. Subjectivity is not reliable, that's all, because anyone can lie.
@PuoskarinRuoska Right the golden reference for all that is truth because science is my authority of choice. Did you know that depression medications being shipped right now have no empirical data concerning the activities that take place within the body? Fact from a neurology professor from UCB. So if science cannot explain the interactions of a medication in the body how can they possibly refute what I have come to experience as truth regarding natural healing?
First of all: there are plenty of studies regarding how and why certain depression medications work (I'm not saying this is the case for a the meds, esecially the newer ones which are still under testing). Yes, you're right - science of course doesn't have the answer to everything. But that doesn't mean science doesn't work and most importantly it doesn't mean that I should take your word on the functionality of natural healing over the mountains of opposing evidence.
@PuoskarinRuoska Science is a great process but the universe is truly deep and science is relatively young. In regards to the studies the FDA mandates proper testing before release however the sampling of subjects is nothing like the numbers in the general public. What worries me is that some assume science to be ultimate authority when in fact scientists are continually evolving to understand the nature of the universe and this process gets progressively more complex over time. Cheers.
You're correct in that science is something that is constantly moving forwards. It is also the only tool we currently have to separate truthful claims from fiction. I'm not saying it cannot be possible for things like "natural healing" to work but evidence has to be presented for me to believe that, and science is what we use to look for that kind of evidence even if in many cases it might take a long time. You can find "unscientific" proof for just about anything.
"What worries me is that some assume science to be ultimate authority"
What worries rational people is that people who believe in some influence of planets and stars think their explanations are based on real, peer-reviewed, duplicable evidence. The sum of explanations about astrology is thus: "nobody can ever know how it works; therefore it's real."
That is not a rational explanation. Evidence. Measure it.
@MadHighway Peer review is meaningless in most circles. This is an act between parties who corroborate among themselves to reach conclusions which are rational to the information they have been exposed to and do not represent the entirety of humanity.
Do you consider an act of love a rational experience? In matter we can approach rational in a different way then the nature of the human experience. Matter is a much denser form of information than energy and the mental states of the mind.
Peer review is designed to eliminate the danger of subjective reasoning. Your assertion is not true. Science is not a conspiracy.
'Love' a bio-chemical effect that evolved in humans over generations as a means to promote our survival.
Those circles you describe are not trustworthy and probably in a sense inbred. Science was developed as a means to displace subjective reasoning in favor of reasoning that depended on others being able to duplicate one's results.
@PuoskarinRuoska In terms of natural healing I am not talking about curing cancer or disease which has manifested in flesh. The schools I have studied speak of changing energy in the body through meditation and energetic release (healing). This does not imply an illness can be contained or eliminated however we know that these practices appear to have a positive impact on the physical state of the body; i.e. blood pressure may drop, headaches cease, improvement in mood, etc.
What you call energy healing is something that has in fact been extensively studied. So far, none of the studies and none of the practisioners have been able to demonstrate in any way that the "energy" they supposedly manipulate actually exists. But it is widely known that many of these treatments have satisfied users.
Psychology and the placebo effect play a large role; all of the symptoms you mentioned for example can be accounted to reduced stress due to placebo.
@PuoskarinRuoska Psychology and the placebo effect are in fact representative of the battle of language over real observable phenomenon and of course scientists are keen on owning the language and the definition while dismissing non scientists. I studied the craft for years and the effects are real regardless of intellectual claims. I have likewise interviewed physics professors who readily acknowledge they know very little about energy; particularly the origins of energy and magnetic forces.
That's not true to the least bit Several studies have been conducted on the supposed natural and energy healing and none of them have been able to prove any existence of said energies. Something either exists or it doesn't. There is no middle ground. If you can proive that it exists, by all means do so and claim a lot of fame, a likely nobel prize and a million dollars from the James Randi Foundation. Otherwise you're nothing more than a conspiracy theorist.
@photopicker - so I assume you're going to prove all the rubbish you claim and get the million dollars from Randi? Of course he is only a dumb old magician so a person of your obvious education and ability will cream him.
@zzytrewq What rubbish? Randi's? The big Randi offer of a million dollars. I can actually remember a time when a million dollars actually meant something. I came by my experience the hard way. I earned it. And it took a good 25 years too. These guys have their own paradigm concerning phenomenon and that's their business not mine.
@zzytrewq Running out of steam or are you beginning to realize that some people think for themselves? You have absolutely no idea what I have experienced or how much information I have amassed over 25 years. Randi is a waste of time. That's purely for entertainment and people who have no clue whatsoever. Just follow the You-Tube videos and see for yourself. Tell me he shows you something you don't already know.
@photopicker - if it has taken you 25 years and you still don't realise astrology is a crock that is entirely your problem.
It's funny how folks like you abuse Mr Randi - but not one astrologer has ever been able to pass any tests to check the veracity of their claims. So with your 25 years experience I'm sure you can devise a simple test that proves once and for all astrologers can do what they claim. Those making the claims have to prove them. Like I said put up or shut up.
@zzytrewq I know zero about astrology. I have expertise in paranormal and spiritual phenomenon. For the record I owe you nothing. You are responsible for your own research. That's how the game is wired. People are easily programmed by what appears to be an authoritative source. Those that do the research and have spent the time will derive their own conclusions and these conclusions have been heatedly debated in the science and spiritual circles for years.
@photopicker - good to see you removed your comments. Threats of violence when you don't get your way. How childish is that? Actually in the world of science it is up to people making the claims to provide evidence. Yes people are easily programmed...that is why they believe in the supernatural and other bullshit like astrology.
You confuse research with merely reading what you already believe. That is why your thinking is Dark Ages stuff.
@zzytrewq You're the one taking dictation from Nye not me. I did my research and your ignorance can't possibly fathom what I have come to know as truth. But that's not my problem that's your problem. What is childish is your ignorance.
@zzytrewq I am not owned by the world of science you are. I can make claims all day long and owe you nothing in return. In the subjective you have to do the research and I am not talking about libraries though I have read the DSM IV which is essentially a guide for mystics through the eyes of science. Lots of great case studies. Science has no way to measure the unconscious mind at this time. They have no way to measure the mind.
@NumeralScientist will the Fifth Dimension move us into the age of aquarius?
MakoSucks 1 day ago
Actually, the ancients did account for all of this. It is called the precession of the equinoxes. Look it up. This is why in Moses' time his people worshipped the Bull, he moved them into the age of Aries, hence the blasphemy of worshipping the Bull. Then Jesus lead the people into the age of Pisces. In a few hundred years we will be moving into the age of Aquarius.
NumeralScientist 6 days ago
@NumeralScientist lol
Donal277 5 days ago
Wow you ppl are really arguing on a youtube video.
YaBoiQuells 1 week ago
@zzytrewq just shut up arguing over the internet is pointless and dumb, you really think your going to change his mind?
xXForTheRecordXx 1 week ago
@xXForTheRecordXx -You arguing I should stop arguing cos it's pointless. Rather ironic don't you think? I think of it as entertainment.
zzytrewq 1 week ago
This vid is popular on Rwanda
donnietodd89 1 week ago
Seriously wtf is up with the arguing?
UseryHee 1 week ago
@UseryHee - this is the Internet. Idiots who don't have a clue arguing with idiots who think they can convince idiots they're idiots for thinking they do have a clue. It's that simple.
zzytrewq 1 week ago
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photopicker 1 week ago
@photopicker - no you're not. LOL
zzytrewq 1 week ago
@zzytrewq and you said is so well ... :)
photopicker 1 week ago
@photopicker - Internet humour is my forte. If I'm not correcting idiots I'm taking the piss.
zzytrewq 1 week ago
@zzytrewq As long as there is room to laugh among the tears it's a good day on earth :)
photopicker 1 week ago
Herp da derpa I fight over youtube videos.
knigthfigth 2 weeks ago
How do such big comments come up in Bill Nye the Science Guy's videos? HOW?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
austing12 2 weeks ago
Respect your ancestors- they knew more than US. They were Astrologers.
occultpriestess 2 weeks ago
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@occultpriestess said "Respect your ancestors- they knew more than US. They were Astrologers."
Plain old horseshit, and you know it.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway re: Plain old horseshit, and you know it.
The weak mind attacks. The strong mind holds interest. occultpriestess has a story you have yet to hear and most likely you will have little tolerance for but note that astrology is a ancient science with a significant history to explore. If only I had more time ...
photopicker 1 week ago
@photopicker
There is nothing in astrology that has been supported and no causal mechanism has been demonstrated; in other words, no indepedent confirmation of force, process, or cause. As such, the claim that a process is at work directing our lives is indefensible, because there is no evidence provided by those making the claim. Show us how to duplicate this alleged force that acts on people's lives.
Astrology is akin to religion-it requires blind belief, not evidence or data.
MadHighway 1 week ago
@MadHighway I'm 53. I entered psychic training as a skeptic at 27. I knew going in how controversial the topic is. Well guess what? I had my ass handed to me on a platter. The language has meaning. It isn't designed to con people out of their money. That's Randi 101. In fact IMO no one is more deluded than the skeptic collective. Outsiders alluding to knowledge about a field when in fact they have zero training in the subject in question.
photopicker 1 week ago
@photopicker - "psychic training" - oh yeah. Thus with such training you'd be able to do something that demonstrates your skills. So let's devise a test that we both agree is fair, and agree 100% on the rules up front. You'll do the simple test and prove that you have the power. Well?
But then you'll suggest it can't be tested, as astrologer always say their ability can't be tested. But hang they say they are accurate! So how can the untestable be accurate? Give me a break.
zzytrewq 1 week ago
@zzytrewq Ever have an amazing idea pop into your head? Ever have a dream that was so real you thought it was real? Do you experience conversations in your head? Do thoughts influence you? If a random idea arises in your consciousness and you act on it physically what "psychic" ability did you demonstrate? After spending some time with the DSM-IV I have come to the conclusion that this manual is a bible for mystics (psychics). The difference is language and content. The events are the same.
photopicker 1 week ago
@photopicker - ideas and dreams are not psychic phenomena. You have been conned. All that stuff is mundane normal thought processes.
zzytrewq 1 week ago
@MadHighway re: There is nothing in astrology that has been supported and no causal mechanism has been demonstrated; in other words, no indepedent confirmation of force, process, or cause. As such, ....
This statement assumes that science is aware of and can measure and categorize all forces known and unknown at this time. While I agree that astrology and religion are similar in means of assimilation I don't believe science is at a point where it can definitively dismiss astrology.
photopicker 1 week ago
@photopicker The burden of proof is on the astrologers here, exactly the same way the atheism vs. religion debate places it on the faithful.
Astrology, and all other supernatural claims, are to be dismissed until they can come up with a scrap of convincing evidence. Thus far, all I've seen are poor statistics and post-hoc fallacies.
Shockna 1 week ago
@Shockna - well said. No astrologer or religious fruit can come up with any supporting evidence so they spend their time getting personal or attack science as if that makes a difference.
To an astrologer something being ancient with lots of anecdotal support means it is true. On that basis so is the existence unicorns.
zzytrewq 1 week ago
@photopicker - astrology is not "ancient science", it was and is superstition.
zzytrewq 1 week ago
@zzytrewq Prove it. Superstition is a word skeptics use often to showcase their superior intellect while demanding that any information system prior to the speakers existence is based on unintelligent human beings deluded by their own gullibility and therefore can be dismissed without further investigation. And 4 year physics students buy into it hook, line, and sinker. Odd thing is the higher up the intellectual ladder you go the more open minded the practitioners are. An established fact.
photopicker 1 week ago
@photopicker - in the world of science it is up to those individuals making the claims to prove it. Astrologers claim astrology is a method by which a persons traits can be read from the heavens. There have been numerous studies (I believe about 35) that have found NO supporting evidence. On that basis I'll stick with the rational belief that is all superstition.
Astrology defines no mechanism, offers no hypothesis, has no theory and it would require divine intervention to be true.
zzytrewq 1 week ago
@occultpriestess - respect your ancestors - they were apes, they knew nothing about astrology. Pity it didn't stay that way.
zzytrewq 1 week ago
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Hi, I have a general question related to astrology. If suppose in the future, there are human colonies on the moon, what would be the Sun sign of a child born on the moon? How would we measure the local time and co-ordinates of the birth? What about a child born aboard a spaceship on its way to mars?
And finally, do the above questions tell you something about astrology?
SatyajeetGaur 3 weeks ago
This video is popular on San Marino
brainbutler220 3 weeks ago
This doesn't debunk anything. This just explains how Tropical astrology and Sidereal astrology are different. xD
GraceGlenmore 4 weeks ago
@GraceGlenmore Does Astrology even need "debunking", I thought intelligent society and distanced itself from such a human centric view of the universe long ago.
ARecordMachine 3 weeks ago 2
@ARecordMachine There are legit arguments against astrology but most people don't understand it enough to form a proper argument. This video is an example of such.
GraceGlenmore 3 weeks ago
@GraceGlenmore Very true. This video is a wonderful example about how ignorant many intelligent people are about astrology on the most fundamental of levels.
cambryn 1 week ago
@ARecordMachine Imo astrology is not a human centric view- instead it is a view that humans are influenced by something bigger and grander than themselves. The universe has a way of effecting everything- and in this case the electromagnetic fields of planets effect individuals through frequencies. Why would the noting of these influences be any different than any other observation we make?
cambryn 1 week ago
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@cambryn
"astrology is a view that humans are influenced by something bigger and grander than themselves."
Swap in "religion": "religion is a view that humans are influenced by something bigger and grander than themselves."
Evidence. Show us how you feel and measure and tell fortunes and personalities by consulting that "something bigger and grander than ourselves."
Tell us where that Big Grand Force comes from, what it looks like, how to measure it.
MadHighway 1 week ago
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MadHighway 2 weeks ago
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@GraceGlenmore
Explain to us the physical, measurable, natural forces and processes by which distant stars and planets affect humans.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway There were some studies done a long time ago involving clams and the cycles of activity relating to moon cycles. The short of the story is that even when the clams were moved away from their natural habitat they responded to the moon cycles within the region they were tested as if they were at home. Unfortunately it is impossible to be on top of the inordinate number of studies over the last 100 years. I wish I could download it all!
photopicker 2 weeks ago
@photopicker
"Moon cycles"? Do you mean change of lunar phase (visible light) or lunar tides (water movements)? Remember there are solar tides equal to the moon's.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@photopicker
Keeping those clams away from their habitat for many, many generations likely would result in their need for "moon cycles", whatever those are, to diminish as a survival trait, unless it continued to help individual clams to survive and breed.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
Astrology weaken astronomy like using Beethoven for commercial jingles
RobinRc666 1 month ago
Astrology is about energies - the potentials present at any given moment. So the sign in which the sun rose when you were born, is in fact your sign, regardless of the how the earth's axis has progressed. Bill Nye's psuedo-assessment here points to why modern science still has such little understanding of how the universe works. As dogmatic and blinded as religion!
balancebeautyblog 1 month ago
@balancebeautyblog - so you're saying astrology is dogmatic and blinded as religion - you got my vote. LOL
Name one study that has confirmed the claims of astrologers.
zzytrewq 3 weeks ago
@zzytrewq I think that what 'balancebeautyblog' meant was that Bill Nye's video was simply inaccurate about the fundamentals of astrology. He did no research, and quickly dismissed it as hogwash- when he didn't even have the basics right (it's not measured by the stars' alignment)- this is similar to what we see religious people do with science- like evolution- they dismiss it as hogwash without doing the research or even understanding it at a basic level.
cambryn 1 week ago
@cambryn
Do not compare evolution to astrology. Evolutionn is a valid scientific theory backed up by overwhelming evidence and data.
Astrology has NO such body of evidence and NO data! Nothing's measurable, you say; only the experienced follower can understand, you say; there is no consensus among astrology believers as to how the concept functions.
Astrology is not a science; it's a pseudo-scientific religion of which whose followers have yet to apply scientific methodology.
MadHighway 1 week ago
@cambryn - regardless of whether Nye has got it right there have been no studies confirming what astrologers believe. Yet they say they are accurate and have never produced any information as evidence. None. Zip. Squat.
Religious folks dismiss evolution because it goes against their dogma. They don't and can't provide proof for their stance so they just say "it didn't happen" despite the overwhelming evidence. Religion and astrology survive due to ignorance.
zzytrewq 1 week ago
@zzytrewq Since the dawning of a more scientific age, astrology was written off by the scientific community and not properly studied. There've been some! :) Carl Jung did research on 486 couples- he found a statistically significant presence of the aspects traditionally considered indicative of a satisfactory relationship. Astrology is just filled with indicators- much like your DNA has indicators of being prone to cancer- doesn't mean you'll get it- just that you are more likely to.
cambryn 1 week ago
@cambryn - "...and not properly studied" Who should do the proper studies? Astrologers haven't. They have produced no scientific papers confirming any of their beliefs. For astrology to "work" would require at least divine intervention. As there is no evidence of a supernatural being or grand plan I'd say that just about confirms astrology is mere superstition.
Carl Jung et al see what they want to see. Without proper statistical studies it is just anecdotes.
zzytrewq 1 week ago
@balancebeautyblog
Which "energies" do you mean? Name them. Describe them. Heat? Light?
Remember, if it's a form of "energy", we can detect it. Where is this 'astrological energy' coming from and in what way does it affect people?
These are the questions that astrology believers never answer.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway Leaving the mechanisms of astrology to belief in "energies" is usually a new age spiritualist view. It's the philosophical side of the debate, although a poor one as it tries to sound scientific to keep up with the world. But don't get spiritual views mixed up with scientific theories.
GraceGlenmore 1 week ago
@GraceGlenmore
What are "the mechanisms of astrology," then?
MadHighway 1 week ago
@MadHighway what do you mean by mechanisms?
cambryn 1 week ago
@cambryn
Force acting on something. Kinetic force of hurricane winds kincrease potential energy of a house wall, and it falls down. That force is measured in pounds per square inch.
Our atmosphere weighs 14.7 PSI, as such.
What is this alleged solar and planetary force kicking around people's lives?
MadHighway 1 week ago
@MadHighway it's not kicking around people's lives- it's just an indicator of things- like i said- Why don't I call the force 'astrologian magnetic force' or 'A.M.F.' Does giving it a name make you feel safer? Better? Like it's more real? Lol
cambryn 1 week ago
@cambryn
Calling it AMF doesn't make it real--its being real woudl make it real. But we know what's real about planets because we never stop studying them. There's never been a case of a weird energy found that somehow affects people.
If we launch a crewed mission to Mars, are those people gonna become Mars-ified? We put men on the moon, and their character traits while there didn't change, and not after.
MadHighway 1 week ago
@MadHighway I already addressed how we are 'set' at birth on a particular frequency- you will always be on that frequency- and travelling doesn't change it, to my knowledge. I don't know any astronauts and thus can't say if there were changes. Neither do you.
Exactly- having a name for something does not make it real! That was my point. We have never had scientist set out to prove the influence of planets onpeople. Imagine what we could discover if scientists tried.
cambryn 1 week ago
@cambryn
I can read up many, many interviews and medical reports on lunar astronauts--I don't have to know them.
"We have never had scientist set out to prove the influence of planets on people"--because in centuries of observaing planets, NOTHING AT ALL FROM PLANETS has shown itself to be affecting us. Except to you astrology believers, but you won't describe how this alleged force works. You just say it's there.
Wrong. It's up to YOU to prove this force exists, not scientists.
MadHighway 1 week ago
@MadHighway Up to me, and non scientist- to scientifically prove this? Now who is illogical? We need some astrology/scientists- but unfortunately that's a rare thing indeed- I know of none- because of how our society is, it's rare you'll see that combo because of how we are taught from a young age. This is a societal influence of large proportions
cambryn 1 week ago
@cambryn
It's up to you to convince scientists that the planets have a force that only you can see and understand, but that no instrument can measure.
I've told you the facts about planets. They can't just make up some form of energy and spew it out--otherwise, we'd know about it. Planets reflect light, some radiate heat, two have magnetic fields, and the rest are far and frozen. What force could they possibly emit?
MadHighway 1 week ago
@MadHighway I have covered your questions in earlier comments. :)
cambryn 1 week ago
@cambryn
No, you've never directly addressed how planets that have been studied for centuries with instruments of better and better acuity show no signs of new, as-yet-unknown forces. We've sent probes with instruments far greater in sensitivity that ours to Mars and found a cold, dry, dead, UV-baked desert, no magnetic field, no life. And you say there's a powerful force somehow emanating from there that we can't detect.
You claim; now you must prove.
MadHighway 1 week ago
@MadHighway Just to go back a bit - by mechanisms I meant how the sun, moon and planets relate to the formation of a human personality. Most of the astrological community holds the belief that each planets carries an "energy" that holds sway over a particular part of a person's personality. While spiritually this can make sense, scientifically there is no evidence to support it. It is a philosophical belief, nothing more. And this particular part of astrology isn't science.
GraceGlenmore 1 week ago
@MadHighway However, it is worth noting that the beliefs about how astrology works are only a few of the theories astrology holds. When one is talking about personality formation and evolutionary psychology there are elements, such as how the cycle of a year had affected the evolution and development of human personality, that make sense when explained. They are only theories just like any other. But I myself believe they hold some merit.
GraceGlenmore 1 week ago
@GraceGlenmore I believe that too. I have varied beliefs on what influences us- and was not implying that astrology is the only one. Anyone who does is an idiot :) Thanks for bringing the tone to a nice place.
cambryn 1 week ago
@cambryn Yaayyy. :D Thanks
GraceGlenmore 1 week ago
@GraceGlenmore
What is "the cycle of a year"? June to June? Feb to Feb?
MadHighway 1 week ago
@MadHighway From one season full-circle to the next. It's not that hard to understand.
GraceGlenmore 1 week ago
@GraceGlenmore
So the planets emit philosophy?
Energy is a force that causes a reaction. Sunlight warms me and it also warms rocks. This alleged "planet energy" then must also affect rocks, moss, penguins, trees, and melt ice like sunlight, whuich is energy too.
Descrbe this energy, how it works, and how it forms within a distant, invisible, frozen-hard, lifeless icy planet.
In other words, astrology is not exempt from explaining itself.
MadHighway 1 week ago
@MadHighway i already have, at length, described my theory. remember?
cambryn 1 week ago
@cambryn
You described personal opinion, which is not fact. I submitted facts about planets in their composition, characteristics, and what years of observation show. You say you have new information and all we have to do is take you on faith.
That sounds dangerously like religion. It too claims an unseen, immeasurable force that affects human lives, but its beleivers shy away from facts as well.
Your alleged planetary force very likely is not there; have you considered this?
MadHighway 1 week ago
@MadHighway of course i have considered this! It could not be there- and I'm just using astrology as a crutch when really i'm just awesome at analyzing people psychologically and it just makes me think about how to approach people better- either way- I have found it useful- and I believe my analysis and that of others was not fluke :)
cambryn 1 week ago
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@MadHighway of course i have considered this! It could not be there- and I'm just using astrology as a crutch when really i'm just awesome at analyzing people psychologically and it just makes me think about how to approach people better- either way- I have found it useful- and I believe my analysis and that of others was not fluke :)
cambryn 1 week ago
@MadHighway gimme your chart please :)
cambryn 1 week ago
@cambryn
No, that would introduce only more selection bias to your argument. You have too much of that going already.
You have to describe how this alleged planetary force works given that we know what forces planets are capable of, since we haven't seen anything else.
Build the instruments to test your prediction of your alleged astrological planetary force, show us your apparatus, methods, and results, and IF they can be duplicated and results confirmed, we'd have to believe you.
MadHighway 1 week ago
@MadHighway also, look up your chart and let me know what your signs/planets are!
cambryn 1 week ago
@MadHighway You obviously don't understand what I said.
GraceGlenmore 1 week ago
Haha I remeber watching him in elementary school. We used to call him Bill Nye the Gayest Guy. Ahhh good memories :)
SuperHaBlah 1 month ago
bill nye said sexy.....i cant stop laughing
hailandclouds 1 month ago
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machopavel 1 month ago
Jeez I thought I was a cancer but I guess I'm a Gemini? XD
DistantCityLight 1 month ago
my horoscope told my i will get a changing
in my wardrobe the same day my work got new uniform every thing changing
gothicsoul100 1 month ago
Astrology is for dumbasses!
victorseay 1 month ago
@victorseay well that is just one ponit of look up A&E - Astrology - Secret in the Stars - Part 1 of 5
gothicsoul100 1 month ago
@gothicsoul100 He just told you in this video that it is fucked up even if the stars had some influence on your life (which they don't...they are suns...objects) the system is in error....my God!!
victorseay 1 month ago
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@victorseay so did you look A&E - Astrology - Secret in the Stars - Part 1 of 5 it is a very cool documentary
gothicsoul100 1 month ago
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gothicsoul100 1 month ago
@victorseay then why did you respond?
photopicker 3 weeks ago
If Astrology is accurate, then they can only predict the past.
Stalinsurfstheweb 1 month ago
@Stalinsurfstheweb Astrology is for morons okay? Astronomy is science.
victorseay 1 month ago
If astrologers can't explain how astrology works and science can't either, that means both sides of the fence know deep down it is bullshit. Now if we can get one of the true believers to tell us they can't work it out either that would end all debate.
I take comfort in that.
ZoeMarks 1 month ago
@cambryn
Science's view changes on what's observed, faith rejects that observation to keep blind belief preserved. That's why they're "at war" per say. I don't see how you can get harmony out of that.
MrAwesome10001 2 months ago
he proves how people can believe in bullsh*t
kingjs19 2 months ago
@kingjs19 exactly!
victorseay 1 month ago
@victorseay a great astrologer ones said germany would have a graet and powerful that was bron in 1889 10 years later hitler took over or a a 1000yaers befor a nother astrologer said a inprison princess would become queen of england 40 years later guees what happed
gothicsoul100 1 month ago
@gothicsoul100 - did a great astrologer tell you that spell check is available? Obviously not.
zzytrewq 1 month ago 5
@gothicsoul100 - LOL. So Hitler was 10 when he took control of Germany according to astrologers. Not many people can become chancellor before puberty. Well done Adolf!
ZoeMarks 1 month ago
@victorseay a great astrologer ones said germany would have a graet and powerful that was bron in 1889 10 years later hitler took over
gothicsoul100 1 month ago
@gothicsoul100 hitler took over in 1933
u0leeeee 1 month ago
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@u0leeeee yes but in 1923 a women said a lady said germany would have a graet and powerful bwould be 1889
gothicsoul100 1 month ago
People still need this explained to them lol
necromx 2 months ago
124 people will experience troubling times this week as the moon rises in Scorpio and a person of reason will uncomfortably obliterate their long held security blanket.
spinalreflex 2 months ago
R.I.P Bill!
MrBballer15 2 months ago
Definitely a sexy scorpio
harposhizzle 2 months ago
What he just described is called 'sidereal' astrology- and that is not used to determine your astrological sign.
The constellations are not used in determining your astrological sign. It's about the earth's alignment with the sun. At the time, when astrology was 'founded' the stars and planets WERE aligned- but they thought it was determined by stars. Now we use planets... Bill Nye obviously doesn't know much about astrology- but he's still a cool dude. And he's a Sagittarius.
cambryn 2 months ago
@cambryn
Makes no difference because ther is no scientific data whatsoever which would support the claim that the position of stars at the time of your bith OR the alligment of the earth to the sun effects the course of your life or personality in any way. Astrology is an outdated concept that has no place in modern world because there are no facts to support it,
Astrological predictions have failed time and time again when scientifically tested. So if anything it's a religion, not science.
PuoskarinRuoska 2 months ago 19
@PuoskarinRuoska Astrology should not be used for divination purposes, as that is utter crap. But I do believe that a full astrological chart can teach us a lot about a person, because i believe that people are effected by the quantum mechanations of the planets. I think that when in the womb and being developed our brains are minutely influenced by many things we can only imagine- including (but of course not limited to) the planets- read bell's theory and apply it- i think it makes sense.
cambryn 2 months ago
@cambryn
That might be possible but I see no reason to believe it as we lack all evidence to support the claim and that's what really matters. I'm not saying that Bell's theorem is false, or that there cannot be events whoch efect us during birth on quantum leve. But since there are no studies on this, it's impossible to say if they really effect us and on what way. I could just as well use Bell's theorem as "proof" that the position of my right hand at any given time determines personalities.
PuoskarinRuoska 2 months ago
@PuoskarinRuoska Well, to each his own. I've found that I can learn a lot about a person from looking at their astrological chart- and I have not had a time where my analysis of a chart (FULL chart- not just 'what's your astrological sign'- because you actually have SEVERAL which constitute your chart) was wrong about a person. I believe in astrology due to observation over the years of never having had it fail me. But most people will never put in the time to learn about it for themselves.
cambryn 2 months ago
@cambryn
The point I'm making it that there are alltogether zero stufies supporting the validity of astrology as a character evaluation method. If you seriously believe that astrology is anything more than an outdated form of religion backed up by confirmation bias and selection bias, by all means, write a paper on it and get it published on a peer-reviewed scientific journal and come back to me.
Before any evidence is presented, I'll put as much weight to astrology as to unicorns and fairies.
PuoskarinRuoska 2 months ago
@PuoskarinRuoska I would love for a scientist to work on proving my theory! Sadly I find that religion and science always seem to be at war- when both can exist harmoniously. I have my beliefs based on yrs of analysis and research- and you have yours based on little backed with a general air of dismissal for what you don't understand/have made clear by others. I am an atheist, but make it a point to study religions. I think of astrology as a form of psychology based on the physical, actually.
cambryn 2 months ago
@cambryn
"Years of analysis and research"
Like I said. If you have evidence that can withstand peer-review make a paper and I'll take you seriously. There are people on this planet who have "years of research" that they use to justify their beliefs in all kinds of things from UFOs to faith healing. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, I simply hope you understand I cannot alter my world view based on somebody's personal account - that's not how science works and you should know this.
PuoskarinRuoska 2 months ago 15
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photopicker 1 month ago
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@PuoskarinRuoska I've seen credible UFO evidence in person. Of course I spent 25 years engaged in the study of psychic and energetic phenomenon. Science is powerful but equally illusive in areas like medicine and energy. Apples will never be Oranges nor can you prove you had lunch yesterday. Science will most likely never be compatible with the subjective. So in fact science is not an authority over real experience and experience rules even if it is not easily understood.
photopicker 1 month ago
@photopicker : "Science will most likely never be compatible with the subjective."
You got it--because reason has shown us that subjectivity is not to be trusted.
Astrology is subjective.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
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photopicker 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway I know zip about astrology but for sure before I would post a video designed for a junior high school audience of uniformed individuals I would likely vest at least 5 years studying the craft in order to understand the world in which it thrives. I studied psychic phenomenon for well over 12 years. My experiences may be subjective to you but I can assure you they were very real to me and I took the time to understand the craft from within the system in question. Skeptics don't.
photopicker 2 weeks ago
@photopicker "My experiences may be subjective to you but I can assure you they were very real to me"
Personal anecdotes may be interesting but they are not evidence.
"studying the craft in order to understand the world in which it thrives." Astrology believers claim the "craft" thrives in the natural world in which we all live. They do not offer any duplicable proof of a force or mechanism that is affecting people, however, but they must or their claim is unsubstantiated.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway The notion that an anecdote is not evidence is a rule that blinds scientists studying the subjective. An anecdote came from somewhere. It is not without existence. Even the physicalists who practice psychiatry use hypnosis to study anecdote with their patients. Remember we are talking about two very different worlds; mind and matter. They belong to the same universe but have dramatically different function and aspect.
photopicker 2 weeks ago
@photopicker
Personal anecdotes are fraught with memory lapse, memory shift, selection bias, etc. The human brain evolved to seek patterns even where none exist and will impose one as needed, such as astrology, deities, and a super-natural realm.
Objective reasoning removes these faults and allows true, unfettered observation to take place. I look at a star; it's red; I compare and contrast it to other red stars. I don't assume red means anything other than that it's a red star.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway Your first paragraph is from logic and reason 101. It has been used for quite some time to reduce spiritual and paranormal events to mistakes in perception. I LOL because I have some experiences that truly defy logic and reason; i.e. telekinesis, telepathy, clairvoyance, UFO's, etc. So while the physicalists assert their POV as the only real truth in many circles this POV alludes to a lack of reference and education in such matters; speaking strictly from 25+ years of research.
photopicker 1 week ago
@photopicker
That you use an artificial label like 'phyiscalist' is as bad as devout Christians using the non-term 'evolutionist'. These are contrivances used in order to discredit scientific methodology as just another way of doing things.
You must provide evidence and data of an unseen force and process that somehow alters the human body from a rest state.
At the root of it you seek to prove that people are not responsible for their actions--the stars and planets did it!
MadHighway 1 week ago
@MadHighway The brain imposing anything on mental processes is a subject of great debate. There is no doubt that the mind is indeed a slippery slope in terms of impression, perception, and cognition. Some believe that science today is the ultimate authority and simply erases everything that precedes it but this is an erroneous path. There is far more to the mystery in the universe that science can analyze or measure at this time. I have worked on ultrasound, electron beam microscopes, etc.
photopicker 1 week ago
@photopicker
The brain is made of matter organized in a certain way and subject to physical laws the same as a rock is. It's a chemical machine. There's nothing special about the molecules, and there's no way for chemicals to overturn physics. We can pretend we do through imagination--sci-fi does it all the time--but that's imagination, another by-product of chemical processes.
The 'mind' is subject to physics the same as any other organ.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway This statement of course implies that we know everything about the brain and I can absolutely assure you that is not truth. I study with leading neurologists who readily claim to know very little about the brain. We do not have adequate tools for measuring personal experience. Until we do so personal experience is the highest order of truth in our universe. It is beyond intellect. The mind cannot be located. This is called the mind body problem. Research it.
photopicker 2 weeks ago
@photopicker
You assume that because we don't understand something in its entirety that it's something mystical and immeasurable. That's subjective on your part.
Objectivity: we don't understand the brain in its entirety, which means we don't understand the brain in its entirety.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway The brain is the center of the physical existence but not necessarily responsible for mental impressions one may experience in a lifetime. Dismissing the imagination is a paradox. Without the imagination there is no means to explore the unknown. Thoughts and dreams are responsible for great acts in physicality. None of these aspects can be ignored unless we attempt to reduce everything to a physical process. At this time there isn't enough evidence to satisfy this conclusion.
photopicker 1 week ago
@photopicker
"the craft from within the system in question."
There is one system: the natural world. For instance, conditions and processes on the moon are markedly different than on Earth, but both locales are subject to the same physics.
Astrology believers never describe the forces they claim are at work and have not provided evidence of such alleged natural forces so that the rest of us can test them.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway Few people are scientists. Do you consider consciousness a function of the natural world? How do you measure consciousness? No doubt there is a gap between scientific evidence and subjective credibility. I would like to think that at some point in the next 100 years we will have measurement systems that crack open the human experience to a new level of understanding thereby placing the subjective closer to the world of the objective at least in terms of measurement data.
photopicker 2 weeks ago
@photopicker
The brain is composed of about three pounds of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, sodium, and potassium, as well as a few other elements in a very intricate array--which is subject to physics and chemistry the same as any other natural process.
Yes, consciousness is a function of nature. No asatology believer has provided proof of unseen natural forces acting upon people; they merely claim the effect is there and skirt the issue of substantiation. Sorta like cold fusion.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway Can you guarantee that all star systems are subject to the "same" physics?
photopicker 2 weeks ago
@photopicker
Yes, because we observe many stars, all conforming to the same physics that we observe locally. Why should physics change with distance?
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway That's a myth we rely on the subjective all the time. Doesn't mean the outcome will map to expectation but I can assure you if we were friends and the food made me sick and I tell you I may have no objective evidence but most likely you will take my word for it. So in fact while science loves that which is highly repeatable and contained much of life is anything but that and the subjective is where the real work begins.
photopicker 2 weeks ago
@photopicker
Objective evidence in the scenario you suggest would be confirmed bacterial contamination of the food. Subjective evidence is when someone claims the food made him sick.
Science doesn't 'love' anything. It's a methodology, not a belief system.
Astrology believers have yet to offer data that reveals an underlying mechanism coming from somewhere and which influences people's behavior.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway Would you agree that science is a human construct? Would you agree that science is evolving? I surmise that the subjective holds a relevant place in the natural world even if the paradigm does not readily map to scientific process. In terms of astrology I am at a loss to discuss this particular topic so I am neither defending nor denying its platform as a science or field of study. I'm not one to dismiss field of study since I have no way to know how it was conceived or experienced.
photopicker 2 weeks ago
@photopicker
"Would you agree that science is a human construct?" Yes, the one construct that demonstrates its validity repeatedly.
"Would you agree that science is evolving?" I would agree new data and new observations come in that require relevant theory to be reviewed.
Subjectivity: "XYZ feels right, so I think it's right." That's not evidence or proof of "XYZ."
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway Humanity is most often blind and at times all we have is the sensory system, intellect, and experience to draw from. Remember that in the subjective experience there is nothing to prove. This effect occurs the instance another entity enters the equation and is due to the ontological gap.
photopicker 2 weeks ago
@photopicker
"Remember that in the subjective experience there is nothing to prove."
That's very convenient, isn't it? It also sounds very irresponsible.
What's blinded humanity is its desire for a happy ending: a friendly universe designed for humanity. It's not. We're a by-product of natural forces and processes and there's no verifiable evidence for anything supernatural or paranormal like astrology and deities.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway If there is no verifiable evidence why then does science even mention supernatural and paranormal? If it didn't exist why does it exist in symbol? Are humans idiots unless trained to be scientists or is it possible that humanity is a work in progress reverse engineering the most sophisticated living system any could ever imagine. It is in fact beyond our comprehension thus the need for expanding our capability to measure such forces. I am of the belief that science is quite young.
photopicker 2 weeks ago
@photopicker
There's no peer-reviewed science I've ever seen that puts forth evidence and data for astrology, lunacy, ghosts, deities, telekinesis, ESP, and so on.
I don't know what you mean by "it exists in symbol." I don't know what you mean by "the most sophisticated living system any could imagine."
It seems you believe that there is more than observations, data, evidence, and proof, but that's not science. Subjectivity is not reliable, that's all, because anyone can lie.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway Do you need to prove the existence of love to experience it?
photopicker 2 weeks ago
@photopicker
My personal experience would be an anecdote, and subjective, and like everyone else's anecdotes, not reliable upon later re-telling.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@PuoskarinRuoska Right the golden reference for all that is truth because science is my authority of choice. Did you know that depression medications being shipped right now have no empirical data concerning the activities that take place within the body? Fact from a neurology professor from UCB. So if science cannot explain the interactions of a medication in the body how can they possibly refute what I have come to experience as truth regarding natural healing?
photopicker 1 month ago
@photopicker
First of all: there are plenty of studies regarding how and why certain depression medications work (I'm not saying this is the case for a the meds, esecially the newer ones which are still under testing). Yes, you're right - science of course doesn't have the answer to everything. But that doesn't mean science doesn't work and most importantly it doesn't mean that I should take your word on the functionality of natural healing over the mountains of opposing evidence.
PuoskarinRuoska 1 month ago
@PuoskarinRuoska Science is a great process but the universe is truly deep and science is relatively young. In regards to the studies the FDA mandates proper testing before release however the sampling of subjects is nothing like the numbers in the general public. What worries me is that some assume science to be ultimate authority when in fact scientists are continually evolving to understand the nature of the universe and this process gets progressively more complex over time. Cheers.
photopicker 1 month ago
@photopicker
You're correct in that science is something that is constantly moving forwards. It is also the only tool we currently have to separate truthful claims from fiction. I'm not saying it cannot be possible for things like "natural healing" to work but evidence has to be presented for me to believe that, and science is what we use to look for that kind of evidence even if in many cases it might take a long time. You can find "unscientific" proof for just about anything.
PuoskarinRuoska 1 month ago
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@photopicker
"What worries me is that some assume science to be ultimate authority"
What worries rational people is that people who believe in some influence of planets and stars think their explanations are based on real, peer-reviewed, duplicable evidence. The sum of explanations about astrology is thus: "nobody can ever know how it works; therefore it's real."
That is not a rational explanation. Evidence. Measure it.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@MadHighway Peer review is meaningless in most circles. This is an act between parties who corroborate among themselves to reach conclusions which are rational to the information they have been exposed to and do not represent the entirety of humanity.
Do you consider an act of love a rational experience? In matter we can approach rational in a different way then the nature of the human experience. Matter is a much denser form of information than energy and the mental states of the mind.
photopicker 2 weeks ago
@photopicker
Peer review is designed to eliminate the danger of subjective reasoning. Your assertion is not true. Science is not a conspiracy.
'Love' a bio-chemical effect that evolved in humans over generations as a means to promote our survival.
Those circles you describe are not trustworthy and probably in a sense inbred. Science was developed as a means to displace subjective reasoning in favor of reasoning that depended on others being able to duplicate one's results.
MadHighway 2 weeks ago
@PuoskarinRuoska In terms of natural healing I am not talking about curing cancer or disease which has manifested in flesh. The schools I have studied speak of changing energy in the body through meditation and energetic release (healing). This does not imply an illness can be contained or eliminated however we know that these practices appear to have a positive impact on the physical state of the body; i.e. blood pressure may drop, headaches cease, improvement in mood, etc.
photopicker 1 month ago
@photopicker
What you call energy healing is something that has in fact been extensively studied. So far, none of the studies and none of the practisioners have been able to demonstrate in any way that the "energy" they supposedly manipulate actually exists. But it is widely known that many of these treatments have satisfied users.
Psychology and the placebo effect play a large role; all of the symptoms you mentioned for example can be accounted to reduced stress due to placebo.
PuoskarinRuoska 1 month ago
@PuoskarinRuoska Psychology and the placebo effect are in fact representative of the battle of language over real observable phenomenon and of course scientists are keen on owning the language and the definition while dismissing non scientists. I studied the craft for years and the effects are real regardless of intellectual claims. I have likewise interviewed physics professors who readily acknowledge they know very little about energy; particularly the origins of energy and magnetic forces.
photopicker 1 month ago
@photopicker
That's not true to the least bit Several studies have been conducted on the supposed natural and energy healing and none of them have been able to prove any existence of said energies. Something either exists or it doesn't. There is no middle ground. If you can proive that it exists, by all means do so and claim a lot of fame, a likely nobel prize and a million dollars from the James Randi Foundation. Otherwise you're nothing more than a conspiracy theorist.
PuoskarinRuoska 1 month ago
@PuoskarinRuoska Randi is a waste of time. He's a former magician who used deception as a form of entertainment. Nothing has changed.
photopicker 1 month ago
@photopicker - so I assume you're going to prove all the rubbish you claim and get the million dollars from Randi? Of course he is only a dumb old magician so a person of your obvious education and ability will cream him.
LMFAO.
zzytrewq 3 weeks ago
@zzytrewq What rubbish? Randi's? The big Randi offer of a million dollars. I can actually remember a time when a million dollars actually meant something. I came by my experience the hard way. I earned it. And it took a good 25 years too. These guys have their own paradigm concerning phenomenon and that's their business not mine.
photopicker 3 weeks ago
@photopicker - whatever. Put up or shut up.
zzytrewq 3 weeks ago
@zzytrewq Running out of steam or are you beginning to realize that some people think for themselves? You have absolutely no idea what I have experienced or how much information I have amassed over 25 years. Randi is a waste of time. That's purely for entertainment and people who have no clue whatsoever. Just follow the You-Tube videos and see for yourself. Tell me he shows you something you don't already know.
photopicker 3 weeks ago
@photopicker - if it has taken you 25 years and you still don't realise astrology is a crock that is entirely your problem.
It's funny how folks like you abuse Mr Randi - but not one astrologer has ever been able to pass any tests to check the veracity of their claims. So with your 25 years experience I'm sure you can devise a simple test that proves once and for all astrologers can do what they claim. Those making the claims have to prove them. Like I said put up or shut up.
zzytrewq 3 weeks ago
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photopicker 3 weeks ago
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photopicker 3 weeks ago
@zzytrewq I know zero about astrology. I have expertise in paranormal and spiritual phenomenon. For the record I owe you nothing. You are responsible for your own research. That's how the game is wired. People are easily programmed by what appears to be an authoritative source. Those that do the research and have spent the time will derive their own conclusions and these conclusions have been heatedly debated in the science and spiritual circles for years.
photopicker 3 weeks ago
@photopicker - good to see you removed your comments. Threats of violence when you don't get your way. How childish is that? Actually in the world of science it is up to people making the claims to provide evidence. Yes people are easily programmed...that is why they believe in the supernatural and other bullshit like astrology.
You confuse research with merely reading what you already believe. That is why your thinking is Dark Ages stuff.
zzytrewq 3 weeks ago
@zzytrewq You're the one taking dictation from Nye not me. I did my research and your ignorance can't possibly fathom what I have come to know as truth. But that's not my problem that's your problem. What is childish is your ignorance.
photopicker 3 weeks ago
@zzytrewq I am not owned by the world of science you are. I can make claims all day long and owe you nothing in return. In the subjective you have to do the research and I am not talking about libraries though I have read the DSM IV which is essentially a guide for mystics through the eyes of science. Lots of great case studies. Science has no way to measure the unconscious mind at this time. They have no way to measure the mind.
photopicker 3 weeks ago