James White is too scared to have anyone comment on his youtube videos. That alone tells you something. Steve Gregg presents the truth well and debunks the exaggerations of Calvinism.
James, be careful! Luke 17:2 shares that "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."
Looks like you are dissecting Adrian Rogers so you can create a forum and puff yourself. All people are created by God in His image, like Jesus, only some choose adoption into the Kingdom by free will acceptance of Jesus and other choose eternity in the lake of fire. Every knee will bow, even YOU will bow.
He highlighted the Your children together part (which refutes nothing anyway) at 41:58 and talks about how we need discipline in exegesis but he himself is ignoring the rest of the verse!! Who is Jesus talking to? "O Jerusalem" then at the end he says "and YE would not"!! He shoots himself in the foot here by not being disciplined in exegesis and accusing Adrian of not being so lol, looks like James is making himself a fool here to me.
at 43:00 you have James coming from a dishonest angle here, if God knew that someone was going to reject Christ and made him anyway how is that unjust??? Its not because the person is going to have the choice, and that makes God just and also not to mention is infinitely more just that creating someone for the sole purpouse of eternaly tormenting them without even giving them an opportunity, this is an unjust god calvin dreamed up and is not YHWH. God is Love.
Okay here is my thing calvinists, If your going to believe the heresy you should be up front with people right out the gate, dont try to sugar coat your gospel, say what you believe immeadiatly, say For God so loved SOME of you people that HE GAVE HIS only begotten son that ONLY SOME OF YOU WHO GOD HAS CHOSEN may believe and have eternal life and the rest of YOU PEOPLE who ARENT PREDESTINED YOUR GOING TO HELL AND GOD DIDNT DIE FOR YOU HE ACTUALLY CHOSE YOU FOR HELL. This is a false gospel.
also if you truly dig into the doctrine of predestination you will see with minimal effort that God doesnt predestine us to receive Jesus rather he predestines us who WILL receive Jesus to be conformed to the image of Jesus by chastizement, life lessons, and finaly at the resurrection he will give us new bodies.
Calvinism is a lie and the man himslef was an evil wicked man and a tyrant look it up and quit following calvin and follow christ and YES you have a choice no matter what calvin tried to make the bible say hes just as unseccessful at twisting scripture as satan was.
cont...The same is true of the reference to "filthy rags" (Isa. 64:6), the "leopard" incapable of changing its spots (Jer. 13:23) and the antediluvians whose hearts were "only evil all the time" (Gen. 6:5). To take these texts out of their specific, contextual application and make them props for Reformed theology is proof-texting of the worst sort - an unworthy hermeneutic.
One great exegetical fault of Calvinism is its tendency to take specific applications of Scripture and make them universal. For example, Isaiah says, "Your whole head is injured, your whole heart afflicted. From the sole of your foot to the top of your head there is no soundness - only wounds..." But the prophet is addressing apostate Israel, not making a theological statement about all men everywhere.
44 says that no one can come to Christ unless drawn by the Father.45 says that all who listen to the Father and learn from Him come to Christ. It would seem clear that the teaching ministry of God through His gospel and word is the means by which men are brought to Jesus. There is nothing in the text that necessitates an "effectual call" on a totally disabled unbeliever. This is confirmed by (1 Pet. 1:23) and James 1:18), both of whom declare that the Word of God is an agency of the new birth
John 6:44 must be understood in the light of verse 45: "It is written in the Prophets, 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me." Here the sinner comes to Christ by listening to the Father, not by passively experiencing "Efficacious Grace."
John 6 44 Just what is the "drawing" of which Christ speaks? Calvinists make much of the Greek word, helkuo, which conveys the idea of "dragging." That seems, however, to run counter to what they often make pains to teach: that the sinner, once renewed, comes willingly.
In Romans 1, Paul writes of men who are "without excuse" because of the manifest presence of God in the creation. He says, "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened" (Rom. 1:21). Here we see men who became futile in their thinking The apostle is not speaking of a condition of birth, but a judgment that came upon them because of willful refusal to acknowledge the Creator
Acts 10:34-35: "... Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him."
Proverbs 1:24-26: "Because I have called, and YE REFUSED; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh."
John 5:39-40: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And YE WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life."
Matthew 23:37: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!"
Joshua 24:15: "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
Deuteronomy 30:19: "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE LIFE, that both thou and thy seed may live."
Isaiah1:18: "Come now, and let us REASON together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."
Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Romans 10:17: "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." and this word is said to the word that is PREACHED not talking about Jesus here buddy so dont even try to twist it.
"As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die O house of Israel?" It is clear here that if God left it solely up to Himself, He would choose to save everyone. I had a guy tell me that this is talking about only physical death lol so God has pleasure in eternal torment of wicked and not physical death??? lol heresy again is made obvious by scripture
cont...As you can see scripture once again is made clear by other scripture. This is ONLY ONE of the many verses they use to promote their false doctrine and i would like anyone who is willing(no pun intended) to contact me on youtube if you wish to have a thoughro discussion concerning the WORD of GOD. I would bid you God Speed but if i did i would be sinning. so until next time...
cont...ok John 18:8 and 9 "Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore you seek me, let these go their way:That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spoke, Of them which you gave me have I lost none."
cont...Now many, if not all, of you calvinists will swear that this is proof of what you believe but I will show you one scripture that makes it clear that you are either purpously twisting scriptures or have been deceived and will not have to do anything other than post this scripture and it will be 100% clear. READY??
Cont...Lets take a look again at the first scripture I mentioned John chapter 6 verse 39 "And this is the Father's will who has sent me, that of all that he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."
Cont... I am here to show all of you out there that what these people believe is a lie. I am no biblical scholar or a preacher or anything like that I simply rely on the Holy Ghost to lead and guide me into all truth as the bible says he will do, so He gets all the glory for all the truth presented here today. Many of you reading this will hate me and get very upset with me, especially those who know the truth and supress it in unrighteousness as the scripture puts it.
I would like to take the time to prove with scripture that a claim many calvinists make concerning John chapter 6 verse 39. Which says "And this is the Father's will who has sent me, that of all that he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." Calvinists and primitive baptists love to quote this scripture as a proof text that they say substantiates their heresy. They spout this scripture off all day when confronted with the truth of the Word of God.
Just from the intro I assume that they also dont use musical instuments like daniel did in the old testament because they think its a type of instrumentality...that is another doctrine that is NOT in the bible that they hold fast to.
Armeneans have a measure of the same blindness that a lot of Jews and unbelievers have when it comes to God's word. God's word will clearly say something and they cant believe it or just dont see it. Its the same blindness that keeps certain jews from seeing the truth in Isaiah 53.The pharisees were like this with God's word that came out of Jesus mouth, they could not take his words. This spirit has been in the world from the beginning.
I love Adrian Roger's teachings. But I couldn't disagree with him more on this subject of God's sovereign election. I was saved in a 5 point arminian church. When I heard the doctrines of God's sovereign election I said, "That's the doctrine of the devil". Then I listen to an old baptist pastor, John Reisenger. Five tapes later I was an unapologetic believer in God's sovereign grace. Since then I've been viciously attacked & ridiculed, but truth is truth--Even this 'hard truth'. God rules!!
@saintkris1947 It will always be that way. Anyone who believes God's word fully has and always will be harassed. That is a certain spirit or stronghold in many people. Jesus spoke the Word of God and even showed people in scripture why he said what he said and they hated his words. One thing I have noticed is from the beginning it has always been a war when it comes to believing God's word. From Adam and Eve to Pharisees to unbelievers and sadly in most professing christians.
@saintkris1947 where then, this is all i ask. where in the bible does it directly say all of a persons sins are pre-forgiven before they even commit them. you show this passage or a passage that point blank says it. .. then ill believe it. if you cannot. then if i do beleive it im in danger of heresy.. so please have at it.. (remember a direct and clear easily understood.. make it simple) :-)
@bullawaya-A J.W. asked me the same question about the trinity. I gave him John 1:1, Hebrews 1, 2, Col., etc. He still didn't believe. Your problem is that you're starting at the end of the logical process of Romans 8:29,30. Either God sovereignly called us (Jn 10:3) or we 'tapped into' His grace by our sovereign will which compelled God to justify (call) us. Either God will complete His work He began (Phil. 1:6) or we will complete it through our good works & obedience (2nd Opinions 2).
@saintkris1947 your evading the question to support something that is not there. the Father, the Son , the Spirit is clearly mentioned. come on man, that is no comparison.
@bullawaya1969 --You made my point. The Trinity is clearly taught by logical necessity--Jesus is affirmed as God (Jn. 1:1), the Spirit is clearly affirmed as God (Acts 5:3-5)--And yet there is but one true God (Deut. 6:4). Therefore God exists as three distinct persons and yet is one true God. Eph. 1 says, "God chose us before the foundation of the world...predestined us according to His plan". Eph. 2:4 "made us alive". Dead men can't make decisions. Blind men can't see and deaf men can't hear.
Contin. Jesus told Nicodemus that no one can 'see' the kingdom of God unless he is born again'. If God saved us because of His eternal plan, regenerated us (made us alive), then it would be ridiculous & illogical for God not to 'keep' us & complete His work. Caveat--"Shall we sin that grace may abound. God forbid". "He that is born of God will not continue to sin". "He that endures to the end shall be saved." "Make your calling & election sure." "Nothing can separate us...from the love of God)"
@saintkris1947 no, you have not answered the question at all. so you answered another question on a totally different issue. please ill give you one more chance. if you fail . then those who view the thread will have to decide for themself. where in the scripture does it say explicitly or without any doubt a mans future sins are forgiven before he commits the. but i can show you where it says "..for sins that are PAST!: PERIOD..ROMANS 3:25. look it up readers. this should settle
@bullawaya1969 --I HAVE answered the question--You just don't like the answer. "He who began a good work in you WILL bring it to completion". Those who "God foreknew (loved before time), He predestined...called...justified...glorified." What part of HE don't you understand? Who or what can separate us from the love of God? (Rom. 8:38,9) The Bible says NOTHING. What do you say? Who can pluck us out of God's hand? The Bible says NO ONE. What do you say?. "He will not suffer you to fall."
@saintkris1947 no, im serious. if you really prove ill beleive it. i must be convinced. the doctrine you cling to is a more convient doctrine and thus appealing to the flesh. for we sin and sin and dont warnings to remain in the faith. the terms you use there are easliy explained. you guys just cling of verse patches and forget the entire cloth is sewn together.
@saintkris1947 so ill try to explain to you this passage you brought us (for one small example of refuting this teaching) CHOSEN those God foresees will believe, obey and endure FOREKNEW God foreknew those would hear the gospel/obey/endurePREDESTINED It is those he forknew that would remain faithful that He places in the Book of Likfe and sanctifies.. all of this is biblical non of it changes or opposes mans responsibily to respond to the gospel. and that all mankind is offered
@saintkris1947 (called) simply means being drawn (justified) we will be finally justified at the judgment. (glorified) this doesnt occor until after we have been justified. (yet it is considered a done deal, even though it is future)
Romans8:33 "who shall lay anything..." (this is a promise to the christians encouraging us to endure and not give up.we will not be condemned but justified.
@saintkris1947 Rom. 8:34-39 the remaining verses is a message of promise to those who continue in the faith- NOT TO THE ONE WHO QUIT, GO BACK TO SINNING UNREPENTANTLY, APOSTATES (who were in church at one time) not the unbelieving, unrepentant, not to disobedient. there are other promises to them. and finallylll
@saintkris1947 But the fearful and unbelieving and the abominable and murderers and whoremongers and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone : which is the second death/ notice the unbelieving have a class all to their own . thus all others were believer to some extent at some time in their life...and have aposticised into unrepentant sin after receiving to knowledge of the truth. this stuff is scarry.
@saintkris1948 the section you are using is not adressing believers who are fallen but those who are remaining in the faith inspite of all the heavy tribulations. thus, sin is not even mentioned in thd dialouge. but you will throw it in to make it a keeper.go back to roms 8:10 :the body is dead to sin; but alive by the Spirit' this means the Holy Ghost now guids us turning us from sin, more and more (sanctification) (there we can find some common ground, ehh?
@saintkris1948 v.11 the promise: v.12 we are debtors to God now to no more live after the flesh! and then Paul warns them (warns who? the readers of this letter the roman church ) "For if ye live ater the flesh, ye shall die; but if ye mortify (put to death; totally quit) the deeds ofhe body, ye shall live. for it is those who are led (present tense ARE LED/being led/obeying presently) by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God and the very ELEEt you are looking for...
@saintkriss1948 explain these solid scripures then? 1) rom 11:22 "...if thou continue in his goodness, OTHERWISE thou also shalt be cut off. 2)1cor. 5:5-7 "that the spirit MAY be saved" suggest the hope possibiliy of them returning to God in repentance./ and then Paul lays it out for these misguided corinthians. in cpt 6. being stern concerning thier sin allowances;v.9 "do you not know that the unrighteous,fornicatior, idolatr,adulter, effeminate ect. shall not get to heaven. n
@saintkris1948 explain pauls concern 1cor. 9"27 "....i keep under my body, and bring it unto subjection: lest that by an means, when i have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."1cor.11:31 "for if w would judge yourselves, we should not be judged.when we are judged (ourselves) we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. ..thus we are to examine our self and judge it by Gods word and make any adjustment need to stay in line with it...
@saintkris1948 this is a message addressed to the brethren specifically. the gospel being discused 1cor. 15 "by which also ye are saved, IF ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have beleived in vain." humm!!!1cor. 15:34 "AWAKE to righteousness and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God; I speak this to your shame.
@saintkris1948 this scripture describes the battle we are to be enguaged in. 2cor 10:3_6. in 2cor. 11 paul warns of many false teaching many even transforming themselve into apostle were to come. so i dont put any confidence in any teacher after the earliest church fathers who knew the abostels died. they are all subject to man flawed teachings.
@saintkris1948 a believe can and does turn from the truth of the Gospel and turns away "falling from grace" Gal 5"4.. gal 5:24 says true Christian have crucified the flesh with the AFFECTIONS AND LUSTS. eph. 5:5-6 no whore, nor unclean, nor covetous man, idolatr, hat any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ. (then warns the believers) "let no man (calvinism) deceive you with vain word: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
@saintkris1948 i can go on if you like there a treasure chest full of warning to the believer to remain in faith, and to the backslider to come back home and the Father will rejoice over you. but to remain in unrepentant sin is dancing with satan and will reap death. (not physical death as you affirm; but the eternal death separated from Christ and all that is called Good. these are the worlds of God.
Jeremiah 32:40 "And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me. ... but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me." The verses you quote are what God uses in our lives to "put a fear in our hearts." When Paul says "examine yourself to see if you are in the faith", he is issuing a warning to believers and unbelievers. I have experienced this 'fear' and it has done, in my life, what it was intended to do.
@saintkris1947 here you totally ignore the text to support your doctrine . i know you will reject the clear context. but ther it is "know ye not your own selves except ye be reprobate" of course the letter clearly tells us it is written to the believer. now, reprobates are those who have rejected Christ in their hearts and have turned from the offer of salvation. these believers were able to be reprobate if they failed to examine themselves. none of these scriptures support you
@bullawaya1969 I can only wonder at the mental gymnastics that you must do to ensure that you stay justified before God. Rest assured that God will never love you any more than He did when He rebirthed you, regardless of all your good works--And He will never love you any less regardless of your sin. But be assured that He WILL discipline you if you continue in your sin and rebellion against Him. I've experienced that in my own life, sorry to say.
@saintkris1947 it is unfortunte (to say the least) that you continue to teach your people these things. it is a very tricky doctrine and very dangerous to souls. i know you are judging things by your own experiences with the Lord dealing with you in your life. but there are many that take your message in a text that you probably dont even mean for them to take it. leaving them in practicing sin and ultimate hell fire.....
@bullawaya1969 we all will have to be judged by the Lord the believer , the sinner, the hypocrite and backslider. you better hope your right. because if your right. im saved, your saved the hypocrite is saved and backslider and apostate. only those who have never given their life to God is doomed. but if im right, you are misleading folks and will be judged for it, and who knows how many will die lost for your own teaching. i dont say we save ourself you misrepresent me there.
@saintkriss1947 because you tell peope, like david jeremiah, that they can openly sin against Christ and be a miserable christian but yet go to heaven in the end . if you would just say "only those who endure unto the end are God's predestined elect from the foundation of the world;" you would be correct. but you wont say that you teach a security in sin. which the apostle jude warned about."turn the Grace of God into lascivousness" i.e. immorality.
@bullawaya1969 Let me repeat--I would NEVER give the assurance of salvation to anyone who is living in willful and unrepentant sin. But I don't know the sinner's heart and if he claims to have confessed Christ as Lord I need call him to repentance and then to be careful in my judgment of his status with God. "Who are you to judge another man's servant?"
@saintkris1947 no, you said earlier that a professed believer can go back to open sin (fornication, idolatry, it doesnt matter) and God will take his/her life in that sin and they will go to heaven earlier. this is clearly what you said (as all calvinists do) but when you are pressed to its true conclusion you run into this very corner saying what you just said and we cant judge, you dont know their heart. the bible teaching whats in the heart comes out in action..
@saintkris1947 clearly there are situations we cannot judge. but the bible tells me i must make a righteous judgment, and "what know ye not that the saint shall judge the world" we must make our judgment by the Word of God, not john calvin. the elect of God are those who believe on Christ , repent and follow his teaching throughout this life. if they backslide; they can be forgiven, but they must turn from sin again. if a christian turns from God permanently=blasphemy of HG.
@saintkris1947 saying only the elect/predestined are going to make it is fine. but all calvinist are not satisfied there. they insist that a truely born again christian can turn from God and die unrepentantly and still make it. i wonder how many people bought this lie and died in wilful sin...
@bullawaya1969 You're struggling with this because you don't seem to understand God's election and choosing. All men are dead (Eph.); All men are deaf; All men are blind; No one seeks God; No one is subject to the law of God or can be. Until God makes a man alive (regeneration, rebirth) he can't see, hear, understand or choose to follow the true God. God's rebirth MUST precede a person's confession of Christ. Very simply, dead men CAN'T choose to follow God or to continue in His grace.
@saintkris1947 you dont understand the seriousness of wilful sin. of course we are fallen and fail to meet perfection, but the Lord understand this. but when we willingly and deliberatly turn from following Christ to indulge in wicked acts and continue this way and die in this state the bible clearly teaches they will not be saved. calvinism denies this . as you did with david's sin. david asked God "..and take not thy Holy Spirit from me" the potential was there. but you deny it
@bullawaya1969 In the case of David's plea, I would say he was remembering Saul's experience when Saul fell under the discipline of God for his willful sin against God. David seems to be pleading for God's forgiveness so that he didn't follow Saul's example and end. Unlike Saul, David repented in the face of Nathan's rebuke from God but he still suffered the consequences for his sin. Daughters raped, sons killed--What a terrible price for sin!!!
@saintkris1947 1cor. 6:8-10 paul said "dont you know that anyone who practices unrighteousness shall not inherit heaven..do be deceived" 1cor15:2" by which ye are saved, IF You keep the gospel in mind, UNLESS i have preached in vain"you deny these thing in a once save always saved doctrine.
@bullawaya1969 I actually prefer, 'the perseverance of the saints' to once saved, always saved--semantics. God will complete the work He has begun. Nothing can separate us from the love of God.
@bullawaya1969 Let's get practical. I've pastored for around 12 years and I've seen every kind of sin from murder, to rape, to child molestation, to drug abuse and sale, to theft, to adultery, to homosexuality. Some have professed a trust in God. My response is always the same--Have you committed your life to the Lordship of Christ without reserve? Have you confessed, repented and turned from your sin? If the answer to any of these questions is no, then we start back at the beginning.
@saintkris1947 calvinist will say, sure youve accepted the Lord, sure you are saved, but are you committed to living for God and living a life free from sin. the scriptures teach if anyone continues in wilful sin weather they claim a rebirth or not, they will be cast into hell fire.. God will not and has never tolerated open rebellion to his holiness. Christ came to offer salvation to a people who will repent. and repent doesnt mean "i accepted the Lord years ago" it now..
@bullawaya1969 I can't imagine that I said, "It doesn't matter". God disciplines by His word (every time we hear it we are hopefully taught), by other believers (including church leaders), by 'natural' circumstances, by illness, weakness or in the case of defiant rebellion to correction, even death. I don't know another person's heart so I am very cautious in judging his status with God. I can (and have) rebuked, corrected and instructed with the word those who are living in unconfessed sin.
@saintkris1947 im sure you dont come out and say "it doesnt matter' but the message of calvinism says it for you. you dont seem to understand the basic plain language of the scriptures. and you being a pastor/teacher you ought to be able to support your postion with clear scripture, which you cannot. if you hold to the stand of the basic calvinist you wont tell them their sin will lead them to hell, and this risks them continuing in sin for lack of truth.
@saintkris1947 here is a very good way to test your veiw. basic calvinism isnt that dangerous, but hyper calvinism is. "if king david had died during the act of commiting adulery with uriah's wife and then killing uriah....would he have went to heaven? (now i know God knows all; this is not the question; hypethetically) would he have went to heaven in the act of commiting adultery and murder or not?
@bullawaya1969 Hypotheticals can be a dangerous way to look at a theological question, but I will address this simply. Christ either paid for all of David's sins (& ours) or He did not. If He didn't pay for all our sins then we're lost because one single sin is enough to earn hell (James 2:10). Sins are acts of commission or omission. One single mental sin (thought) is worthy of hell. Are you really telling me you're without sin? (1 John 1:8) Are you saying David would go to hell??
@bullawaya1969 "given their life to God"--Actually it's God who gives life to us when He regenerates us. "i dont say we save ourself"--The problem is either you, in fact, do save yourself by your 'decision' or your good works or God saves you on account of the blood and sacrifice of His Son. I would NEVER give anyone the hope of salvation that is walking in willful and unrepentant sin. However, if God chose him, God will bring him back to faith and obedience.
@bullawaya1969 The sovereignty of God is not 'tricky'. It's actually very simple--As all truth is. God does what He wants, when He wants, to whom He wants, for whatever purpose He wants. Many people don't like the God of the Bible who rules even over every sub-atomic particle in the cosmos. They want to sit on the throne and be like the most High. It's fantastic to emulate Christ but He will never share His throne with anyone & He has "ALL POWER" including your salvation in His hands.
@bullawaya1969 It's been said (humorously) that Calvinists not only believe in total depravity, many of them practice it also--so I understand your uneasiness with the perseverance of the saints. Justification is a one time event. Sanctification is a life-time work of the Holy Spirit. As I said previously, if someone is sinning & living in open rebellion he could still be saved BUT God will not allow him to continue to sin. God will discipline even unto death at times 1 Cor 11:27-30 1Jn 3:10
cont. On a personal note--I have friends whose children expressed some kind of decision when they were younger but are now living as rebels against God. I don't know their hearts but I certainly wouldn't give them any hope of salvation. I would speak to them just like I would speak to an unbelievers. It appears as if they were never saved in the first place (like many in the church). Our personal security rests in our perseverance--Our eternal security rests on Christ's finished work.
cont. I wouldn't call your belief heretical but it is certainly closer to Roman Catholicism than to the reformers. I don't know of any reformers that didn't believe in the five points but I'm open to correction on that. Historically I could name many great leaders, Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Whitfield, Spurgeon, Charles Wesley, Van Til, R.C. Sproul, Greg Bahnsen, just to name a few.
@saintkris1947 i dont follow the interpretations of men. i read the holy bible and let God lead me , not these men. you can follow them but it is dangerous business. neither will i bring up the teaching of arminian thinking christian. i will mention that calvin was a cultish type leader approving the death of a teacher who opposed him. spurgeon is just a calvin worhipper in my view of him. wesley was not a calvinist thinking minister. you should read up on that one.
@sainkris 1947 i also know on none of the early church fathers who wrote in support or teach a calvinistic/augustine view....you view of God killing those backsliding believers who received the Holy Ghost and then turn back to heathenistic wickedness that they were saved from is a matter of your interpretation and those whom your revere as 'teachers of the truth.' you cannot affirm this as an absolute fact in the contexts of the scriptures. if a man dies in sinful activity.....
@saintkris s1949 the scriptures teach they will be raised in sin. you say the bible says they're works will be burned up but their soul saved.. but you fail to mention the text is speaking of just that! the good works, and good actions inner and outer that an active believer does, charity, love, kindness, sacrifices, but it is not speaking of sin at all or the topic of turning from God is not the topic. it silly how you guys like to pull these rabbits out of the hat..
@saintkris 1949 every one is subject to the physical death, sinner, saint, backslider, pagan, ect.. but you think only the backsliding Christian is subject to physical death..lol. "Who so ever sins against me , i will blot out of my book" "who so ever takes away from the book of this testamony i will blot his name out of the Book of Life" .. Jesus Christ refutes you friend,,not i...
@bullawaya1969 My knowledge of the early fathers is limited but the absolute giant of the first 1,000 years (excluding Paul and the early church leaders) was Augustine. He is, without a doubt the "father" of the Protestant reformation. It was his writings along with the N.T. text that led Luther to say, "Here I stand". I don't understand. How many sins did Christ die for? All? Some? Only those that are confessed before you die?
@saintkris1947 a calvinist would quote augustine calvins gospel came from him. i take the words of Paul they are of God and there is no doubt. prove your postition by the bible not augustine. Augustine has no clout but to those who need someone to tell them what the bible says..
@bullawaya1969 Charles Wesley was a great Calvinist song writer. John Wesley was his brother. John was an Arminian and, I might add, a great evangelist for the church, even with his aberrant views on how and why God saves one and not another. (The same could be said of Rogers--But I love his messages) Spurgeon was a great baptist pastor and not a worshipper of Calvin. Calvin was a great teacher with flaws like all the rest of us.
@saintkris1947 again you fail to prove calvinistic view that an apostate will go to heaven, just loose his joy and some rewards. willful unrepentant sin will sin us to hell, reguardless of whether weve had a moment of faith or not.. you failed to prove future sins are forgiven even before we commit them. Christs sacrafice is an offer to all mankind but given to those willing to accept it and follow his teaching until death...
@bullawaya1969 "whoever continues to live in sin is not born of God" (1 John). "He that endures to the end, shall be saved". "All that the Father gives to the Son WILL come, & Christ will not cast them out. No one can pluck them out of the Father's hand." "He will never leave us nor forsake us." Either God saves us by His plan and grace or we save ourselves through our righteous belief. Either God sustains us by His power or we sustain ourselves through our power and goodness.
@saintkris1947 yes, yes, but this doesnt refute conditional security for the believer. where do you think it says a person who was a practicing believer who fall back into wilful sin and continues this way till death will just lose a joy or a reward but will still get their sinful soul into heaven? this passage only confirm that ultimatley the Lord know who will endure until the end. im not questioning this. again. where does it say a believers future sin are forgiven even in sin
@saintkris 1947 just because the Lord already knows all things before hand does not negate a persons obligation to respond to his grace and remain in this grace. your doctrine denies this biblical truth saying a person who has been save is able to backslide into sin and die this way and still make it to heaven . where , please,is this doctrine. this is all im asking and you continue to skip around and speak of other un related thing. ...?????
@saintkris1947 here you are trying to do God's work or at the least, explain God. many great writer of commentaries do not try to explain the two truth. Dont you understand that this is God Almighty not some guru or human being or human teaching . it is more complex than you or i can imagine or understand. the word of God teaches both. mans obligation to respond and God's sovereignity. this is something you refuse to consider. and because of this, ur teaching releives rspnsiblity.
@saintkris1947 this reasoning still doesnt tell us where in the bible is future adultery, murder, hate ect. forgiven before it is repented of or reguardless of whether it will be repented of. this is calvinist foolish teaching...if a person die in a backslidden condtion in wilful sin. it is not the issue of man responsibility of remaining faithful. calvinism worst teachers teach a wilful sinning backslider will still go to heaven in the end.. pitiful...
@bullawaya1969 I've found that simplicity is the hallmark of truth. God is perfect logic (John1:1) Therefore it's not out of line to use logic to develop doctrine, as long as it doesn't contradict the clear teaching of scripture. I don't know of any Calvinist who would give hope to the unrepentant sinner. However, if this sinner has been justified he WILL be preserved through the last leg of the salvation process--Glorification.
@bullawaya1969 Again, can the future be any different than God knows beforehand? If it can't be any different than God knows it to be, don't you have the same dilemma that you claim the Calvinist has? I understand that God is the Creator of time and is therefore not subject to time but He does act in time and each event in the cosmos happens in time. Every event, therefore cannot be any different than God knew beforehand. So, how is this different from Calvinism?
@saintkris1947 this human logic and reasoning is because you are trying to make Gods sovereignity and mans freewill mesh or compliment something you can understand with a good geometry book or scientific book of laws and logic. the word of God is our only rule of faith and practice and it teaches man's freewill and God's soveriegnity. and you are bouncing around again failing to prove that the bible says what you claim.
@bullawaya1969 I prefer to use the terms, God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. Free will is only used of offerings in the O.T. But NO! I don't believe their is an answer to man's freedom and God's sovereignty. "Work out your own salvation with all fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure." I can't give you a definitive answer as to how this works out but it is repeated numerous times in the Bible so I know that both are true.
@saintkris1947 i know there are saved calvinist and arminian, the church a person is affiliated with cannot justify us, neither can our works save us. this of couse the Lord knows all, but we need to warn people this complacent positon of once saved always saved have send many blindly to their doom believing the teaching (though unintentional) once youve had a moment/experience of conversion you can never fall away , even if we sin. this is the lie ...
@saintkris1947 there i rom 8 is a 'trick' you calvinist like to use. only a trick. you teaching it proves you cannot under any circumstances be no longer going to heaven, but would point out to ur students that the passage is comfoting suffering failful. not mention to backsliding and hypocriticals, apostates who have came in and now are enemies through their word deed and testamonies. to understand the text there in roms 8 you need read the entire chapter and see how it is flow
@saintkris1947 no wonder you calvinist are all messed up i just finished reading an article on you hero augustine. he is clearly anti-semetic. believes praying to mary can bring salvation, not to mention all of the other silly doctrines he holds to...hmm.
@bullawaya1969 I never claimed to be a follower of Augustine or Calvin. Their soteriology, however was excellent and followed both the teaching of Paul and of Christ. I neither worship Mary (although I respect her as an incredible woman of God), and there isn't a racist bone in my body--God is color-blind.
@saintkris1947 For of this you can be SURE: No immoral, impure or greedy person -- such a man is an idolater -- has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient (Eph. 5:5,6).
@saintkris1947 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God (Gal. 5:19-21).
@saintkris1947 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14,15)
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy. (Prov 28:13)--conditional securtiy proven
Does all of this bantering really solve anything? This is what causes ppl to not to even bother with Church or Christianity because it seems that everything is an argument. From chosen to not chosen, what bible translation to use, the proper method to be baptized, etc. It is total insanity. How about just following the example Jesus instead of trying to out argue each other?
@bohemianatlarge Jesus example was to believe God's word. This isnt a small issue, its a truth war, it has been since Adam and Eve. Here is the difference, I believe all of the scriptures that an armenean believes but they do not believe all the scriptures I believe. I take the scripture for what it says and they try to reinterprate it or just ignore it instead of believing it.
@Garrett9779 My point is that I don't believe all of this arguing ever leads anyone to Christ, if anything it shows just how Christians are divided. When I became a Christian in 1974 I was totally unaware at that time of all of the issues that was being argued, from what bible translation you use, to end time schemes, to once saved always saved arguments, it didn't take long before I heard the attacks one preacher or another on each other, drove me right out of churches.
@bohemianatlarge thats why we engage in a personal relationship one on one with the Holy Spirit with in us and communicate with the Lord ourself. we read the scriptures and pray for understanding. then on judgment day we leave Christ to his judging us. cant drive me out of church, why? because there is nothing else to turn to but sin. i will die trusting in Christ and repenting of known sin.God bless.
NAME BLOTTED OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE IF WE DO NOT OVERCOME (this is by the Power of God of Course but we must be a part of it because WE ARE) John 3:16 WHOSOEVER WILL Then Means NOTHING in ETERNAL SECURITY & ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED! Eternal Security Stinks from the Pits of Hell!
@jacksmack77 the problem of the arminian thinker. is the same problem that have plagued all of us in one form or another since the beginning,and that is GOD ALMIGHTY OVER ALL SOVEREIGN~OMNIPOTENCE REIGNETH! A arminian minded person,is not one i-oata different than the a-THE-ist! Who is very adamant about his own independence of GOD state of being~&~"self-sufficiency",and can do it all on his own just fine without the DREAD of THE WILL of some HIGHER POWER INTERFERING with "his-own"!!!
I love the scripture and theology. I will finish bible school next year. I do understand what Calvanism teaches. I am sorry for geting so riled up about this but I felt that Dr. White was attacking Dr. Rogers personally and not what he believed about Calvanism. I knew Dr. Roger and he was a very godly man and a defender of the Christian faith. From your comments you are a believer and so am I, even though we may view Calvanism differently, we are still on the same TEAM.
I agree that if one knew he was right and he could prove it, the he should be bold about what he believes in but there is a difference between being bold and being arrogant. The Apostle Paul one of the boldest men that ever lived and who was indeed an Ambassador for Christ, "boasted in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ", not in Calvinism because it is Christ and Christ alone who saves.
@prousia I know listening to such long and winded discussions about theology and grammar is something that most people hardly have the time or patience for, but you do understand that Calvinists are claiming that what they teach is what Jesus taught himself?
This man and every Calvinist that I have ever met is very arrogant and prideful. Dr. Roger was a very godly man and he believed and follow Christ. He never expected anyone to believe what he taught just because he taught it, but rather because it was what the Word of God taught.
@prousia I made this account just to reply to you.
Humans have a sin problem. That includes the redeemed until we reach glory. Yes, there are times when I've heard Dr. White speaking with a very proud tone in his voice--but what is he proud of?
Think about it, if you KNEW you were right, and you KNEW you could prove it fully, and you loved the truth of what you were saying, wouldn't you be pretty bold about what you were saying too?
But listen closer and you'll hear his humbleness before God.
If we Christians today spent as much time in the mission fields as we do debating theology and philosophy, I think we could turn the world upside down as the Christians in the book of Acts did.
@jlopez47 I like the message of spending more time in the mission field , however I don't like your insinuation that debating theology is somehow less important...
2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Ephesians 2:5 "Made us alive in Christ when we were yet DEAD in trespass and sin."
There is no way any DEAD person can do anything. Lazarus had no ability to raise himself, his flesh was even stinking. Lazarus did not make himself alive Jesus the Author of life did! From my own personal experiences I did not come willingly to Christ and neither did Paul. I was literally arrested by God while sinking and drowning in my sins. Like a foolish drowning person, at first I kicked against the pricks!
I have noticed that there is a vitriol coming fr Arminians against Calvinists and I dont understand why,,,I have seen Arminains grossly twist Calvinist position and totally misrepresent them,,,why?
@Discerningthetruth ehhh that's a hard one to answer and many may scream at me, but basically. The whole idea of reformed theology is that it is inline with the Reformers, who were basically Calvinist or a better word is monergistic. Also some would say that there is no such thing as a Reformed Baptist because to be truly "reformed" you must be a padeobaptist. It just depends on how one views the subject. But in general "most" people use the terms interchangeably.
@Shenanigans19 - thank you for your answer,,I did research a bit more since that post,,,and I was really shocked at this whole phenomena..it seems that it is causing a lot of confusion & hard feelings within the religious community. IMO people are following men rather than Christ. Thanks for your thoughtfulness & bravery in attempting to answer my question. I hope you don't get clobbered too hard for it! God Bless. :-)
@Discerningthetruth Just to clarify I am a 5 point Calvinist and I in no way believe that I am follow a man (John Calvin) but that the revelation of Scripture is clearly presenting a view that Calvin expounded. It would be ridiculous for me to say I believe this (Reformed Doctrine) because it's what John Calvin taught, but that it is what Scripture is teaching. Primarily God's freedom to save sinners for His own eternal glory.
Thank you for posting this. I have never taken so much abuse from other believers as I have since declaring that I am now of the Reformed theology camp. It is the most beautiful theology of Gods word and it took me about twenty three years to get it. My mind now has a security in being His that fills my heart with awe and love for the one who chose me. He made me his and nobody not even myself can take me out of his hands. I love you Father, thank you for loving me.
Is Dr. James White the ONLY person that is authorized to speak on behalf of Calvinists? I have been looking for a valid debate, but can't find one. All I find is Mr. White, but not debating anyone face to face. Where are the face to face debates?
@chapmaned Never heard him claim to be the only authority on the subject. There have been many writers and speakers to speak on behalf of the doctrine of grace, predestination, Calvinism, etc. the names are many; Loraine Boettner, Gordon H. Clark, Jerome Zanchius, William Cooper, Edwin H. Palmer, Richard D. Phillips, RC Sproul, John Piper, to name a few. If you're looking for a good debate check out the Calvinist - Arminian debate featuring Jerry Walls, Bruce Ware. and others.
If God "shot the cosmic dice...why should He be given praise and glory for that?" I have always thought a God that HAD to control EVERY detail to get the outcome HE wanted was MUCH weaker than a God who could allow variation and choice and still produce HIS perfect outcome! I'd love to hear some thoughts on this...referencing thoughts in the 27th minute.
@Alohabmwjr Do you think that Reformed theology denies that man makes choices? And that there is "variation" in those choices?
There is an entire chapter "On Free Will" in the historic, Reformed confessions of faith (The Westminster, and 1689 Baptist confessions).
"Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation..." [1689 Baptist Confession, ch.9, sec.3].
The issue is about salvation, not everyday choices.
@rkg62976 Thanks for your response. There are two branches I have heard espouse views here...one that is monergistic in salvation...I see how they arrive at those conclusions (although I would be synergistic in salvation)...others are monergistic in sanctification as well and argue that a sovereign God and a libertine freewill cannot coexist (like a circle being a square).
@Alohabmwjr My point in replying to your comment is that while God is sovereign over all events that take place temporally within His creation, this does not negate the fact that man makes choices on a daily basis; nor does it negate the fact that men make choices freely (that is, according to their nature). Reformed theology has never taught otherwise.
And you are correct, my friend, the issue is Monergism vs. Synergism with regard to salvation.
Check out my YouTube channel/playlists and websites for present-truth materials, Three Angels' Messages and God's last-mercy warning to His people in these last days.
Papacy = Antichrist / Little Horn / Beast from the Sea
Roman Catholicism = Whore of Babylon
Investigative Judgement has commenced in 1844 (1st Angel’s Message)
Ellen G. White, 1827-1915 = End-time Prophet Sent of God
7th-day Sabbath = Seal of God
Sunday Worship to be Enforced as Mark of the Beast"
It is so great to get to listen to one of the "chosen few". Congratulations on your election Mr. White, I'm just glad that you have so much time to spend on your ultra successful internet radio show, just make sure that none of those horrible, pathetic, unelect soles hear your message and decide to come to Christ. I think that we can definitely say that the conservative resurgence in the Southern Baptist Convention has gone way, way too far.
@AUtiGRRRS Calvinists would never seek "congratulations" for their being elect. It is something God does on his own initiative. They would also never characterize the unelect in the way that you did. In other words, you are using hyperbole and overstatement to build a straw man argument against the Calvinist position.
Also, James White is not a Southern Baptist, so he does not speak for Southern Baptists or as a representative of the Conservative Resurgence.
Faith itself is something that must be done; but its importance is sufficient to justify its standing here as a synecdoche of all that must be done.As Dorris noted: "This verse illustrates the truth that the works of God are works ordained by God to be performed by men." We must believe. Even though God influences us to believe, Humans to be saved make a choice to believe or not to. God is Sovereign and God gave humans a choice to make. Love allows for choice. choice make Calvinism dead.
Dr. White has his own reading for scripture verses that gives you the "Calvin" ways. Be aware that others think much different than what Dr. White. It is not grammar. Is a covenant one sided? or Two sided. Are humans already picked for heaven and hell? Tradition I know not. But how does Mat 23:37 have anything to do with God's foreknowledge?? Does God fling them into Hell. Does God have such a large ego that he does what He wants with NO JUSTICE? This is just stupid. God is Just
God knows all that will come. God does not cause Hitler to kill. Being sovereign does not mean that God controls everything. God allows for freedom of his being. If not than God created SIN. Would God create sin? Never, Dr. Whites perspective makes God a Creator Satan's evil, Sin. If God foreknew, then God sovereignty made it happen. That is preposterous. God's purpose allow for freedom. Freedom allows for choice and choice allows for true Love. ST. John GOD is LOVE.
Are you kidding me? I stopped listening after Mr. White said "God doesn't know future actions" His ministry is named right the begining and the end, after listening to this dweeb it should be the begininig of the end of his ministry. Mr. White get a life, acceot Jesus as Lord and Savior sir.
Like Adrian Rogers says..."that's not worth a half of halleluiah
James White is too scared to have anyone comment on his youtube videos. That alone tells you something. Steve Gregg presents the truth well and debunks the exaggerations of Calvinism.
zanmirrob 4 hours ago
Adrian Roger's view is much more Biblical. James White comes off more like a cult leader.
NikonRules303 3 days ago
James, be careful! Luke 17:2 shares that "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."
Looks like you are dissecting Adrian Rogers so you can create a forum and puff yourself. All people are created by God in His image, like Jesus, only some choose adoption into the Kingdom by free will acceptance of Jesus and other choose eternity in the lake of fire. Every knee will bow, even YOU will bow.
sherryslily 1 week ago
He highlighted the Your children together part (which refutes nothing anyway) at 41:58 and talks about how we need discipline in exegesis but he himself is ignoring the rest of the verse!! Who is Jesus talking to? "O Jerusalem" then at the end he says "and YE would not"!! He shoots himself in the foot here by not being disciplined in exegesis and accusing Adrian of not being so lol, looks like James is making himself a fool here to me.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
at 43:00 you have James coming from a dishonest angle here, if God knew that someone was going to reject Christ and made him anyway how is that unjust??? Its not because the person is going to have the choice, and that makes God just and also not to mention is infinitely more just that creating someone for the sole purpouse of eternaly tormenting them without even giving them an opportunity, this is an unjust god calvin dreamed up and is not YHWH. God is Love.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Okay here is my thing calvinists, If your going to believe the heresy you should be up front with people right out the gate, dont try to sugar coat your gospel, say what you believe immeadiatly, say For God so loved SOME of you people that HE GAVE HIS only begotten son that ONLY SOME OF YOU WHO GOD HAS CHOSEN may believe and have eternal life and the rest of YOU PEOPLE who ARENT PREDESTINED YOUR GOING TO HELL AND GOD DIDNT DIE FOR YOU HE ACTUALLY CHOSE YOU FOR HELL. This is a false gospel.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
also if you truly dig into the doctrine of predestination you will see with minimal effort that God doesnt predestine us to receive Jesus rather he predestines us who WILL receive Jesus to be conformed to the image of Jesus by chastizement, life lessons, and finaly at the resurrection he will give us new bodies.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Calvinism is a lie and the man himslef was an evil wicked man and a tyrant look it up and quit following calvin and follow christ and YES you have a choice no matter what calvin tried to make the bible say hes just as unseccessful at twisting scripture as satan was.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
cont...The same is true of the reference to "filthy rags" (Isa. 64:6), the "leopard" incapable of changing its spots (Jer. 13:23) and the antediluvians whose hearts were "only evil all the time" (Gen. 6:5). To take these texts out of their specific, contextual application and make them props for Reformed theology is proof-texting of the worst sort - an unworthy hermeneutic.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
One great exegetical fault of Calvinism is its tendency to take specific applications of Scripture and make them universal. For example, Isaiah says, "Your whole head is injured, your whole heart afflicted. From the sole of your foot to the top of your head there is no soundness - only wounds..." But the prophet is addressing apostate Israel, not making a theological statement about all men everywhere.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
44 says that no one can come to Christ unless drawn by the Father.45 says that all who listen to the Father and learn from Him come to Christ. It would seem clear that the teaching ministry of God through His gospel and word is the means by which men are brought to Jesus. There is nothing in the text that necessitates an "effectual call" on a totally disabled unbeliever. This is confirmed by (1 Pet. 1:23) and James 1:18), both of whom declare that the Word of God is an agency of the new birth
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
John 6:44 must be understood in the light of verse 45: "It is written in the Prophets, 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me." Here the sinner comes to Christ by listening to the Father, not by passively experiencing "Efficacious Grace."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
John 6 44 Just what is the "drawing" of which Christ speaks? Calvinists make much of the Greek word, helkuo, which conveys the idea of "dragging." That seems, however, to run counter to what they often make pains to teach: that the sinner, once renewed, comes willingly.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
In Romans 1, Paul writes of men who are "without excuse" because of the manifest presence of God in the creation. He says, "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened" (Rom. 1:21). Here we see men who became futile in their thinking The apostle is not speaking of a condition of birth, but a judgment that came upon them because of willful refusal to acknowledge the Creator
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
John 6:28-29: "... What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? ... This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Acts 10:34-35: "... Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Proverbs 24:23: "... It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Proverbs 1:24-26: "Because I have called, and YE REFUSED; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Acts 7:51: "Ye stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always RESIST the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
John 5:39-40: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And YE WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Matthew 23:37: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!"
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Luke 7:50: "... Thy faith hath saved thee ..."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
2 Thessalonians 2:13: "...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation THROUGH sanctification of the Spirit and BELIEF OF THE Truth."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
2 Timothy 1:12: "...I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I HAVE COMMITTED unto him against that day."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Joshua 24:15: "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Deuteronomy 30:19: "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE LIFE, that both thou and thy seed may live."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Isaiah1:18: "Come now, and let us REASON together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Romans 10:17: "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." and this word is said to the word that is PREACHED not talking about Jesus here buddy so dont even try to twist it.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Proverbs 1:29 states that fearing God is a choice. And Psalm 25:12-14 reveals that, upon choosing to fear God, He will show us His covenant.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
"As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die O house of Israel?" It is clear here that if God left it solely up to Himself, He would choose to save everyone. I had a guy tell me that this is talking about only physical death lol so God has pleasure in eternal torment of wicked and not physical death??? lol heresy again is made obvious by scripture
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
cont...As you can see scripture once again is made clear by other scripture. This is ONLY ONE of the many verses they use to promote their false doctrine and i would like anyone who is willing(no pun intended) to contact me on youtube if you wish to have a thoughro discussion concerning the WORD of GOD. I would bid you God Speed but if i did i would be sinning. so until next time...
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
@menmybaby4307 i would have a discussion, but we are in agreement. so the discussion would be short. God bless..
bullawaya1969 2 weeks ago
@bullawaya1969 my posts are for calvinists sorry if there is any confusion
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
cont...ok John 18:8 and 9 "Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore you seek me, let these go their way:That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spoke, Of them which you gave me have I lost none."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
cont...Now many, if not all, of you calvinists will swear that this is proof of what you believe but I will show you one scripture that makes it clear that you are either purpously twisting scriptures or have been deceived and will not have to do anything other than post this scripture and it will be 100% clear. READY??
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Cont...Lets take a look again at the first scripture I mentioned John chapter 6 verse 39 "And this is the Father's will who has sent me, that of all that he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Cont... I am here to show all of you out there that what these people believe is a lie. I am no biblical scholar or a preacher or anything like that I simply rely on the Holy Ghost to lead and guide me into all truth as the bible says he will do, so He gets all the glory for all the truth presented here today. Many of you reading this will hate me and get very upset with me, especially those who know the truth and supress it in unrighteousness as the scripture puts it.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
I would like to take the time to prove with scripture that a claim many calvinists make concerning John chapter 6 verse 39. Which says "And this is the Father's will who has sent me, that of all that he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." Calvinists and primitive baptists love to quote this scripture as a proof text that they say substantiates their heresy. They spout this scripture off all day when confronted with the truth of the Word of God.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
Just from the intro I assume that they also dont use musical instuments like daniel did in the old testament because they think its a type of instrumentality...that is another doctrine that is NOT in the bible that they hold fast to.
menmybaby4307 2 weeks ago
In essentials, unity.
In non-essentials, liberty.
In all things, charity.
Rightly dividing the Word of God in dispensational study resolves all of the issues.
ScreeminMeeme 2 weeks ago
Armeneans have a measure of the same blindness that a lot of Jews and unbelievers have when it comes to God's word. God's word will clearly say something and they cant believe it or just dont see it. Its the same blindness that keeps certain jews from seeing the truth in Isaiah 53.The pharisees were like this with God's word that came out of Jesus mouth, they could not take his words. This spirit has been in the world from the beginning.
Garrett9779 3 weeks ago
I love Adrian Roger's teachings. But I couldn't disagree with him more on this subject of God's sovereign election. I was saved in a 5 point arminian church. When I heard the doctrines of God's sovereign election I said, "That's the doctrine of the devil". Then I listen to an old baptist pastor, John Reisenger. Five tapes later I was an unapologetic believer in God's sovereign grace. Since then I've been viciously attacked & ridiculed, but truth is truth--Even this 'hard truth'. God rules!!
saintkris1947 1 month ago
@saintkris1947 It will always be that way. Anyone who believes God's word fully has and always will be harassed. That is a certain spirit or stronghold in many people. Jesus spoke the Word of God and even showed people in scripture why he said what he said and they hated his words. One thing I have noticed is from the beginning it has always been a war when it comes to believing God's word. From Adam and Eve to Pharisees to unbelievers and sadly in most professing christians.
Garrett9779 3 weeks ago
@saintkris1947 where then, this is all i ask. where in the bible does it directly say all of a persons sins are pre-forgiven before they even commit them. you show this passage or a passage that point blank says it. .. then ill believe it. if you cannot. then if i do beleive it im in danger of heresy.. so please have at it.. (remember a direct and clear easily understood.. make it simple) :-)
bullawaya1969 2 weeks ago
@bullawaya-A J.W. asked me the same question about the trinity. I gave him John 1:1, Hebrews 1, 2, Col., etc. He still didn't believe. Your problem is that you're starting at the end of the logical process of Romans 8:29,30. Either God sovereignly called us (Jn 10:3) or we 'tapped into' His grace by our sovereign will which compelled God to justify (call) us. Either God will complete His work He began (Phil. 1:6) or we will complete it through our good works & obedience (2nd Opinions 2).
saintkris1947 2 weeks ago
@saintkris1947 your evading the question to support something that is not there. the Father, the Son , the Spirit is clearly mentioned. come on man, that is no comparison.
bullawaya1969 2 weeks ago
@bullawaya1969 --You made my point. The Trinity is clearly taught by logical necessity--Jesus is affirmed as God (Jn. 1:1), the Spirit is clearly affirmed as God (Acts 5:3-5)--And yet there is but one true God (Deut. 6:4). Therefore God exists as three distinct persons and yet is one true God. Eph. 1 says, "God chose us before the foundation of the world...predestined us according to His plan". Eph. 2:4 "made us alive". Dead men can't make decisions. Blind men can't see and deaf men can't hear.
saintkris1947 1 week ago
Contin. Jesus told Nicodemus that no one can 'see' the kingdom of God unless he is born again'. If God saved us because of His eternal plan, regenerated us (made us alive), then it would be ridiculous & illogical for God not to 'keep' us & complete His work. Caveat--"Shall we sin that grace may abound. God forbid". "He that is born of God will not continue to sin". "He that endures to the end shall be saved." "Make your calling & election sure." "Nothing can separate us...from the love of God)"
saintkris1947 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 no, you have not answered the question at all. so you answered another question on a totally different issue. please ill give you one more chance. if you fail . then those who view the thread will have to decide for themself. where in the scripture does it say explicitly or without any doubt a mans future sins are forgiven before he commits the. but i can show you where it says "..for sins that are PAST!: PERIOD..ROMANS 3:25. look it up readers. this should settle
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@bullawaya1969 --I HAVE answered the question--You just don't like the answer. "He who began a good work in you WILL bring it to completion". Those who "God foreknew (loved before time), He predestined...called...justified...glorified." What part of HE don't you understand? Who or what can separate us from the love of God? (Rom. 8:38,9) The Bible says NOTHING. What do you say? Who can pluck us out of God's hand? The Bible says NO ONE. What do you say?. "He will not suffer you to fall."
saintkris1947 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 no, im serious. if you really prove ill beleive it. i must be convinced. the doctrine you cling to is a more convient doctrine and thus appealing to the flesh. for we sin and sin and dont warnings to remain in the faith. the terms you use there are easliy explained. you guys just cling of verse patches and forget the entire cloth is sewn together.
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 so ill try to explain to you this passage you brought us (for one small example of refuting this teaching) CHOSEN those God foresees will believe, obey and endure FOREKNEW God foreknew those would hear the gospel/obey/endurePREDESTINED It is those he forknew that would remain faithful that He places in the Book of Likfe and sanctifies.. all of this is biblical non of it changes or opposes mans responsibily to respond to the gospel. and that all mankind is offered
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 (called) simply means being drawn (justified) we will be finally justified at the judgment. (glorified) this doesnt occor until after we have been justified. (yet it is considered a done deal, even though it is future)
Romans8:33 "who shall lay anything..." (this is a promise to the christians encouraging us to endure and not give up.we will not be condemned but justified.
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 Rom. 8:34-39 the remaining verses is a message of promise to those who continue in the faith- NOT TO THE ONE WHO QUIT, GO BACK TO SINNING UNREPENTANTLY, APOSTATES (who were in church at one time) not the unbelieving, unrepentant, not to disobedient. there are other promises to them. and finallylll
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 But the fearful and unbelieving and the abominable and murderers and whoremongers and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone : which is the second death/ notice the unbelieving have a class all to their own . thus all others were believer to some extent at some time in their life...and have aposticised into unrepentant sin after receiving to knowledge of the truth. this stuff is scarry.
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
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@saintkris1948 the section you are using is not adressing believers who are fallen but those who are remaining in the faith inspite of all the heavy tribulations. thus, sin is not even mentioned in thd dialouge. but you will throw it in to make it a keeper.go back to roms 8:10 :the body is dead to sin; but alive by the Spirit' this means the Holy Ghost now guids us turning us from sin, more and more (sanctification) (there we can find some common ground, ehh?
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1948 v.11 the promise: v.12 we are debtors to God now to no more live after the flesh! and then Paul warns them (warns who? the readers of this letter the roman church ) "For if ye live ater the flesh, ye shall die; but if ye mortify (put to death; totally quit) the deeds ofhe body, ye shall live. for it is those who are led (present tense ARE LED/being led/obeying presently) by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God and the very ELEEt you are looking for...
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkriss1948 explain these solid scripures then? 1) rom 11:22 "...if thou continue in his goodness, OTHERWISE thou also shalt be cut off. 2)1cor. 5:5-7 "that the spirit MAY be saved" suggest the hope possibiliy of them returning to God in repentance./ and then Paul lays it out for these misguided corinthians. in cpt 6. being stern concerning thier sin allowances;v.9 "do you not know that the unrighteous,fornicatior, idolatr,adulter, effeminate ect. shall not get to heaven. n
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1948 explain pauls concern 1cor. 9"27 "....i keep under my body, and bring it unto subjection: lest that by an means, when i have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."1cor.11:31 "for if w would judge yourselves, we should not be judged.when we are judged (ourselves) we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. ..thus we are to examine our self and judge it by Gods word and make any adjustment need to stay in line with it...
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1948 this is a message addressed to the brethren specifically. the gospel being discused 1cor. 15 "by which also ye are saved, IF ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have beleived in vain." humm!!!1cor. 15:34 "AWAKE to righteousness and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God; I speak this to your shame.
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1948 this scripture describes the battle we are to be enguaged in. 2cor 10:3_6. in 2cor. 11 paul warns of many false teaching many even transforming themselve into apostle were to come. so i dont put any confidence in any teacher after the earliest church fathers who knew the abostels died. they are all subject to man flawed teachings.
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1948 a believe can and does turn from the truth of the Gospel and turns away "falling from grace" Gal 5"4.. gal 5:24 says true Christian have crucified the flesh with the AFFECTIONS AND LUSTS. eph. 5:5-6 no whore, nor unclean, nor covetous man, idolatr, hat any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ. (then warns the believers) "let no man (calvinism) deceive you with vain word: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1948 i can go on if you like there a treasure chest full of warning to the believer to remain in faith, and to the backslider to come back home and the Father will rejoice over you. but to remain in unrepentant sin is dancing with satan and will reap death. (not physical death as you affirm; but the eternal death separated from Christ and all that is called Good. these are the worlds of God.
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
Jeremiah 32:40 "And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me. ... but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me." The verses you quote are what God uses in our lives to "put a fear in our hearts." When Paul says "examine yourself to see if you are in the faith", he is issuing a warning to believers and unbelievers. I have experienced this 'fear' and it has done, in my life, what it was intended to do.
saintkris1947 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 here you totally ignore the text to support your doctrine . i know you will reject the clear context. but ther it is "know ye not your own selves except ye be reprobate" of course the letter clearly tells us it is written to the believer. now, reprobates are those who have rejected Christ in their hearts and have turned from the offer of salvation. these believers were able to be reprobate if they failed to examine themselves. none of these scriptures support you
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@bullawaya1969 I can only wonder at the mental gymnastics that you must do to ensure that you stay justified before God. Rest assured that God will never love you any more than He did when He rebirthed you, regardless of all your good works--And He will never love you any less regardless of your sin. But be assured that He WILL discipline you if you continue in your sin and rebellion against Him. I've experienced that in my own life, sorry to say.
saintkris1947 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 it is unfortunte (to say the least) that you continue to teach your people these things. it is a very tricky doctrine and very dangerous to souls. i know you are judging things by your own experiences with the Lord dealing with you in your life. but there are many that take your message in a text that you probably dont even mean for them to take it. leaving them in practicing sin and ultimate hell fire.....
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@bullawaya1969 we all will have to be judged by the Lord the believer , the sinner, the hypocrite and backslider. you better hope your right. because if your right. im saved, your saved the hypocrite is saved and backslider and apostate. only those who have never given their life to God is doomed. but if im right, you are misleading folks and will be judged for it, and who knows how many will die lost for your own teaching. i dont say we save ourself you misrepresent me there.
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkriss1947 because you tell peope, like david jeremiah, that they can openly sin against Christ and be a miserable christian but yet go to heaven in the end . if you would just say "only those who endure unto the end are God's predestined elect from the foundation of the world;" you would be correct. but you wont say that you teach a security in sin. which the apostle jude warned about."turn the Grace of God into lascivousness" i.e. immorality.
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@bullawaya1969 Let me repeat--I would NEVER give the assurance of salvation to anyone who is living in willful and unrepentant sin. But I don't know the sinner's heart and if he claims to have confessed Christ as Lord I need call him to repentance and then to be careful in my judgment of his status with God. "Who are you to judge another man's servant?"
saintkris1947 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 no, you said earlier that a professed believer can go back to open sin (fornication, idolatry, it doesnt matter) and God will take his/her life in that sin and they will go to heaven earlier. this is clearly what you said (as all calvinists do) but when you are pressed to its true conclusion you run into this very corner saying what you just said and we cant judge, you dont know their heart. the bible teaching whats in the heart comes out in action..
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 clearly there are situations we cannot judge. but the bible tells me i must make a righteous judgment, and "what know ye not that the saint shall judge the world" we must make our judgment by the Word of God, not john calvin. the elect of God are those who believe on Christ , repent and follow his teaching throughout this life. if they backslide; they can be forgiven, but they must turn from sin again. if a christian turns from God permanently=blasphemy of HG.
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 saying only the elect/predestined are going to make it is fine. but all calvinist are not satisfied there. they insist that a truely born again christian can turn from God and die unrepentantly and still make it. i wonder how many people bought this lie and died in wilful sin...
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@bullawaya1969 You're struggling with this because you don't seem to understand God's election and choosing. All men are dead (Eph.); All men are deaf; All men are blind; No one seeks God; No one is subject to the law of God or can be. Until God makes a man alive (regeneration, rebirth) he can't see, hear, understand or choose to follow the true God. God's rebirth MUST precede a person's confession of Christ. Very simply, dead men CAN'T choose to follow God or to continue in His grace.
saintkris1947 6 days ago
@saintkris1947 you dont understand the seriousness of wilful sin. of course we are fallen and fail to meet perfection, but the Lord understand this. but when we willingly and deliberatly turn from following Christ to indulge in wicked acts and continue this way and die in this state the bible clearly teaches they will not be saved. calvinism denies this . as you did with david's sin. david asked God "..and take not thy Holy Spirit from me" the potential was there. but you deny it
bullawaya1969 4 days ago
@bullawaya1969 In the case of David's plea, I would say he was remembering Saul's experience when Saul fell under the discipline of God for his willful sin against God. David seems to be pleading for God's forgiveness so that he didn't follow Saul's example and end. Unlike Saul, David repented in the face of Nathan's rebuke from God but he still suffered the consequences for his sin. Daughters raped, sons killed--What a terrible price for sin!!!
saintkris1947 4 days ago
@saintkris1947 1cor. 6:8-10 paul said "dont you know that anyone who practices unrighteousness shall not inherit heaven..do be deceived" 1cor15:2" by which ye are saved, IF You keep the gospel in mind, UNLESS i have preached in vain"you deny these thing in a once save always saved doctrine.
bullawaya1969 4 days ago
@bullawaya1969 I actually prefer, 'the perseverance of the saints' to once saved, always saved--semantics. God will complete the work He has begun. Nothing can separate us from the love of God.
saintkris1947 4 days ago
@bullawaya1969 Let's get practical. I've pastored for around 12 years and I've seen every kind of sin from murder, to rape, to child molestation, to drug abuse and sale, to theft, to adultery, to homosexuality. Some have professed a trust in God. My response is always the same--Have you committed your life to the Lordship of Christ without reserve? Have you confessed, repented and turned from your sin? If the answer to any of these questions is no, then we start back at the beginning.
saintkris1947 6 days ago
@saintkris1947 calvinist will say, sure youve accepted the Lord, sure you are saved, but are you committed to living for God and living a life free from sin. the scriptures teach if anyone continues in wilful sin weather they claim a rebirth or not, they will be cast into hell fire.. God will not and has never tolerated open rebellion to his holiness. Christ came to offer salvation to a people who will repent. and repent doesnt mean "i accepted the Lord years ago" it now..
bullawaya1969 6 days ago
@bullawaya1969 I can't imagine that I said, "It doesn't matter". God disciplines by His word (every time we hear it we are hopefully taught), by other believers (including church leaders), by 'natural' circumstances, by illness, weakness or in the case of defiant rebellion to correction, even death. I don't know another person's heart so I am very cautious in judging his status with God. I can (and have) rebuked, corrected and instructed with the word those who are living in unconfessed sin.
saintkris1947 6 days ago
@saintkris1947 im sure you dont come out and say "it doesnt matter' but the message of calvinism says it for you. you dont seem to understand the basic plain language of the scriptures. and you being a pastor/teacher you ought to be able to support your postion with clear scripture, which you cannot. if you hold to the stand of the basic calvinist you wont tell them their sin will lead them to hell, and this risks them continuing in sin for lack of truth.
bullawaya1969 6 days ago
@saintkris1947 here is a very good way to test your veiw. basic calvinism isnt that dangerous, but hyper calvinism is. "if king david had died during the act of commiting adulery with uriah's wife and then killing uriah....would he have went to heaven? (now i know God knows all; this is not the question; hypethetically) would he have went to heaven in the act of commiting adultery and murder or not?
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@bullawaya1969 Hypotheticals can be a dangerous way to look at a theological question, but I will address this simply. Christ either paid for all of David's sins (& ours) or He did not. If He didn't pay for all our sins then we're lost because one single sin is enough to earn hell (James 2:10). Sins are acts of commission or omission. One single mental sin (thought) is worthy of hell. Are you really telling me you're without sin? (1 John 1:8) Are you saying David would go to hell??
saintkris1947 6 days ago
@bullawaya1969 "given their life to God"--Actually it's God who gives life to us when He regenerates us. "i dont say we save ourself"--The problem is either you, in fact, do save yourself by your 'decision' or your good works or God saves you on account of the blood and sacrifice of His Son. I would NEVER give anyone the hope of salvation that is walking in willful and unrepentant sin. However, if God chose him, God will bring him back to faith and obedience.
saintkris1947 1 week ago
@bullawaya1969 The sovereignty of God is not 'tricky'. It's actually very simple--As all truth is. God does what He wants, when He wants, to whom He wants, for whatever purpose He wants. Many people don't like the God of the Bible who rules even over every sub-atomic particle in the cosmos. They want to sit on the throne and be like the most High. It's fantastic to emulate Christ but He will never share His throne with anyone & He has "ALL POWER" including your salvation in His hands.
saintkris1947 1 week ago
@bullawaya1969 It's been said (humorously) that Calvinists not only believe in total depravity, many of them practice it also--so I understand your uneasiness with the perseverance of the saints. Justification is a one time event. Sanctification is a life-time work of the Holy Spirit. As I said previously, if someone is sinning & living in open rebellion he could still be saved BUT God will not allow him to continue to sin. God will discipline even unto death at times 1 Cor 11:27-30 1Jn 3:10
saintkris1947 1 week ago
cont. On a personal note--I have friends whose children expressed some kind of decision when they were younger but are now living as rebels against God. I don't know their hearts but I certainly wouldn't give them any hope of salvation. I would speak to them just like I would speak to an unbelievers. It appears as if they were never saved in the first place (like many in the church). Our personal security rests in our perseverance--Our eternal security rests on Christ's finished work.
saintkris1947 1 week ago
cont. I wouldn't call your belief heretical but it is certainly closer to Roman Catholicism than to the reformers. I don't know of any reformers that didn't believe in the five points but I'm open to correction on that. Historically I could name many great leaders, Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Whitfield, Spurgeon, Charles Wesley, Van Til, R.C. Sproul, Greg Bahnsen, just to name a few.
saintkris1947 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 i dont follow the interpretations of men. i read the holy bible and let God lead me , not these men. you can follow them but it is dangerous business. neither will i bring up the teaching of arminian thinking christian. i will mention that calvin was a cultish type leader approving the death of a teacher who opposed him. spurgeon is just a calvin worhipper in my view of him. wesley was not a calvinist thinking minister. you should read up on that one.
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@sainkris 1947 i also know on none of the early church fathers who wrote in support or teach a calvinistic/augustine view....you view of God killing those backsliding believers who received the Holy Ghost and then turn back to heathenistic wickedness that they were saved from is a matter of your interpretation and those whom your revere as 'teachers of the truth.' you cannot affirm this as an absolute fact in the contexts of the scriptures. if a man dies in sinful activity.....
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris s1949 the scriptures teach they will be raised in sin. you say the bible says they're works will be burned up but their soul saved.. but you fail to mention the text is speaking of just that! the good works, and good actions inner and outer that an active believer does, charity, love, kindness, sacrifices, but it is not speaking of sin at all or the topic of turning from God is not the topic. it silly how you guys like to pull these rabbits out of the hat..
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris 1949 every one is subject to the physical death, sinner, saint, backslider, pagan, ect.. but you think only the backsliding Christian is subject to physical death..lol. "Who so ever sins against me , i will blot out of my book" "who so ever takes away from the book of this testamony i will blot his name out of the Book of Life" .. Jesus Christ refutes you friend,,not i...
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@bullawaya1969 My knowledge of the early fathers is limited but the absolute giant of the first 1,000 years (excluding Paul and the early church leaders) was Augustine. He is, without a doubt the "father" of the Protestant reformation. It was his writings along with the N.T. text that led Luther to say, "Here I stand". I don't understand. How many sins did Christ die for? All? Some? Only those that are confessed before you die?
saintkris1947 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 a calvinist would quote augustine calvins gospel came from him. i take the words of Paul they are of God and there is no doubt. prove your postition by the bible not augustine. Augustine has no clout but to those who need someone to tell them what the bible says..
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 stick to the bible please:-)
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@bullawaya1969 Charles Wesley was a great Calvinist song writer. John Wesley was his brother. John was an Arminian and, I might add, a great evangelist for the church, even with his aberrant views on how and why God saves one and not another. (The same could be said of Rogers--But I love his messages) Spurgeon was a great baptist pastor and not a worshipper of Calvin. Calvin was a great teacher with flaws like all the rest of us.
saintkris1947 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 again you fail to prove calvinistic view that an apostate will go to heaven, just loose his joy and some rewards. willful unrepentant sin will sin us to hell, reguardless of whether weve had a moment of faith or not.. you failed to prove future sins are forgiven even before we commit them. Christs sacrafice is an offer to all mankind but given to those willing to accept it and follow his teaching until death...
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@bullawaya1969 "whoever continues to live in sin is not born of God" (1 John). "He that endures to the end, shall be saved". "All that the Father gives to the Son WILL come, & Christ will not cast them out. No one can pluck them out of the Father's hand." "He will never leave us nor forsake us." Either God saves us by His plan and grace or we save ourselves through our righteous belief. Either God sustains us by His power or we sustain ourselves through our power and goodness.
saintkris1947 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 yes, yes, but this doesnt refute conditional security for the believer. where do you think it says a person who was a practicing believer who fall back into wilful sin and continues this way till death will just lose a joy or a reward but will still get their sinful soul into heaven? this passage only confirm that ultimatley the Lord know who will endure until the end. im not questioning this. again. where does it say a believers future sin are forgiven even in sin
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris 1947 just because the Lord already knows all things before hand does not negate a persons obligation to respond to his grace and remain in this grace. your doctrine denies this biblical truth saying a person who has been save is able to backslide into sin and die this way and still make it to heaven . where , please,is this doctrine. this is all im asking and you continue to skip around and speak of other un related thing. ...?????
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@bullawaya1969 If God knows all things before hand can anything be different than God foreknows (strictly in a cognitive sense)?
saintkris1947 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 here you are trying to do God's work or at the least, explain God. many great writer of commentaries do not try to explain the two truth. Dont you understand that this is God Almighty not some guru or human being or human teaching . it is more complex than you or i can imagine or understand. the word of God teaches both. mans obligation to respond and God's sovereignity. this is something you refuse to consider. and because of this, ur teaching releives rspnsiblity.
bullawaya1969 6 days ago
@saintkris1947 this reasoning still doesnt tell us where in the bible is future adultery, murder, hate ect. forgiven before it is repented of or reguardless of whether it will be repented of. this is calvinist foolish teaching...if a person die in a backslidden condtion in wilful sin. it is not the issue of man responsibility of remaining faithful. calvinism worst teachers teach a wilful sinning backslider will still go to heaven in the end.. pitiful...
bullawaya1969 6 days ago
@bullawaya1969 I've found that simplicity is the hallmark of truth. God is perfect logic (John1:1) Therefore it's not out of line to use logic to develop doctrine, as long as it doesn't contradict the clear teaching of scripture. I don't know of any Calvinist who would give hope to the unrepentant sinner. However, if this sinner has been justified he WILL be preserved through the last leg of the salvation process--Glorification.
saintkris1947 5 days ago
@bullawaya1969 Again, can the future be any different than God knows beforehand? If it can't be any different than God knows it to be, don't you have the same dilemma that you claim the Calvinist has? I understand that God is the Creator of time and is therefore not subject to time but He does act in time and each event in the cosmos happens in time. Every event, therefore cannot be any different than God knew beforehand. So, how is this different from Calvinism?
saintkris1947 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 this human logic and reasoning is because you are trying to make Gods sovereignity and mans freewill mesh or compliment something you can understand with a good geometry book or scientific book of laws and logic. the word of God is our only rule of faith and practice and it teaches man's freewill and God's soveriegnity. and you are bouncing around again failing to prove that the bible says what you claim.
bullawaya1969 6 days ago
@bullawaya1969 I prefer to use the terms, God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. Free will is only used of offerings in the O.T. But NO! I don't believe their is an answer to man's freedom and God's sovereignty. "Work out your own salvation with all fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure." I can't give you a definitive answer as to how this works out but it is repeated numerous times in the Bible so I know that both are true.
saintkris1947 5 days ago
@saintkris1947 i know there are saved calvinist and arminian, the church a person is affiliated with cannot justify us, neither can our works save us. this of couse the Lord knows all, but we need to warn people this complacent positon of once saved always saved have send many blindly to their doom believing the teaching (though unintentional) once youve had a moment/experience of conversion you can never fall away , even if we sin. this is the lie ...
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 there i rom 8 is a 'trick' you calvinist like to use. only a trick. you teaching it proves you cannot under any circumstances be no longer going to heaven, but would point out to ur students that the passage is comfoting suffering failful. not mention to backsliding and hypocriticals, apostates who have came in and now are enemies through their word deed and testamonies. to understand the text there in roms 8 you need read the entire chapter and see how it is flow
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
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bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@saintkris1947 no wonder you calvinist are all messed up i just finished reading an article on you hero augustine. he is clearly anti-semetic. believes praying to mary can bring salvation, not to mention all of the other silly doctrines he holds to...hmm.
bullawaya1969 6 days ago
@bullawaya1969 I never claimed to be a follower of Augustine or Calvin. Their soteriology, however was excellent and followed both the teaching of Paul and of Christ. I neither worship Mary (although I respect her as an incredible woman of God), and there isn't a racist bone in my body--God is color-blind.
saintkris1947 5 days ago
@saintkris1947 For of this you can be SURE: No immoral, impure or greedy person -- such a man is an idolater -- has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient (Eph. 5:5,6).
bullawaya1969 6 days ago
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@bullawaya1969 Fearful and true scriptures.
saintkris1947 5 days ago
@saintkris1947 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God (Gal. 5:19-21).
bullawaya1969 6 days ago
@bullawaya1969 Fearful and true scriptures.
saintkris1947 5 days ago
@saintkris1947 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14,15)
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy. (Prov 28:13)--conditional securtiy proven
bullawaya1969 6 days ago
@bullawaya1969 Fearful and true scriptures.
saintkris1947 5 days ago
@mindsplinterfilms "not all who call out to me 'Lord, Lord" will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."
Leviathan205 1 month ago
Does all of this bantering really solve anything? This is what causes ppl to not to even bother with Church or Christianity because it seems that everything is an argument. From chosen to not chosen, what bible translation to use, the proper method to be baptized, etc. It is total insanity. How about just following the example Jesus instead of trying to out argue each other?
bohemianatlarge 1 month ago
@bohemianatlarge Jesus example was to believe God's word. This isnt a small issue, its a truth war, it has been since Adam and Eve. Here is the difference, I believe all of the scriptures that an armenean believes but they do not believe all the scriptures I believe. I take the scripture for what it says and they try to reinterprate it or just ignore it instead of believing it.
Garrett9779 3 weeks ago
@Garrett9779 My point is that I don't believe all of this arguing ever leads anyone to Christ, if anything it shows just how Christians are divided. When I became a Christian in 1974 I was totally unaware at that time of all of the issues that was being argued, from what bible translation you use, to end time schemes, to once saved always saved arguments, it didn't take long before I heard the attacks one preacher or another on each other, drove me right out of churches.
bohemianatlarge 3 weeks ago
@bohemianatlarge thats why we engage in a personal relationship one on one with the Holy Spirit with in us and communicate with the Lord ourself. we read the scriptures and pray for understanding. then on judgment day we leave Christ to his judging us. cant drive me out of church, why? because there is nothing else to turn to but sin. i will die trusting in Christ and repenting of known sin.God bless.
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
@bullawaya1969 "comparing ourselves, by ourselves is unwise" lean of the Lord .
bullawaya1969 1 week ago
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NAME BLOTTED OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE IF WE DO NOT OVERCOME (this is by the Power of God of Course but we must be a part of it because WE ARE) John 3:16 WHOSOEVER WILL Then Means NOTHING in ETERNAL SECURITY & ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED! Eternal Security Stinks from the Pits of Hell!
FormerMPSGT 1 month ago
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SeraphimsCherub 1 month ago
James White is a slave to his damnable tradition!
jacksmack77 1 month ago
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@jacksmack77 the problem of the arminian thinker. is the same problem that have plagued all of us in one form or another since the beginning,and that is GOD ALMIGHTY OVER ALL SOVEREIGN~OMNIPOTENCE REIGNETH! A arminian minded person,is not one i-oata different than the a-THE-ist! Who is very adamant about his own independence of GOD state of being~&~"self-sufficiency",and can do it all on his own just fine without the DREAD of THE WILL of some HIGHER POWER INTERFERING with "his-own"!!!
SeraphimsCherub 1 month ago
@jacksmack77 cause thats the Christian thing to say...very humble and loving there brother
0311cowboy 1 month ago
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@FlightOfTheWalruses
I love the scripture and theology. I will finish bible school next year. I do understand what Calvanism teaches. I am sorry for geting so riled up about this but I felt that Dr. White was attacking Dr. Rogers personally and not what he believed about Calvanism. I knew Dr. Roger and he was a very godly man and a defender of the Christian faith. From your comments you are a believer and so am I, even though we may view Calvanism differently, we are still on the same TEAM.
prousia 2 months ago
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prousia 2 months ago
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prousia 2 months ago
@FlightOfTheWalruses
I agree that if one knew he was right and he could prove it, the he should be bold about what he believes in but there is a difference between being bold and being arrogant. The Apostle Paul one of the boldest men that ever lived and who was indeed an Ambassador for Christ, "boasted in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ", not in Calvinism because it is Christ and Christ alone who saves.
prousia 2 months ago
@prousia I know listening to such long and winded discussions about theology and grammar is something that most people hardly have the time or patience for, but you do understand that Calvinists are claiming that what they teach is what Jesus taught himself?
FlightOfTheWalruses 2 months ago in playlist "What is Calvinism?" (James White)
This man and every Calvinist that I have ever met is very arrogant and prideful. Dr. Roger was a very godly man and he believed and follow Christ. He never expected anyone to believe what he taught just because he taught it, but rather because it was what the Word of God taught.
prousia 3 months ago
@prousia I made this account just to reply to you.
Humans have a sin problem. That includes the redeemed until we reach glory. Yes, there are times when I've heard Dr. White speaking with a very proud tone in his voice--but what is he proud of?
Think about it, if you KNEW you were right, and you KNEW you could prove it fully, and you loved the truth of what you were saying, wouldn't you be pretty bold about what you were saying too?
But listen closer and you'll hear his humbleness before God.
FlightOfTheWalruses 2 months ago in playlist "What is Calvinism?" (James White)
@prousia I totally agree with you!
tulipsRonlyflowers 2 months ago
If we Christians today spent as much time in the mission fields as we do debating theology and philosophy, I think we could turn the world upside down as the Christians in the book of Acts did.
jlopez47 5 months ago
@jlopez47 I like the message of spending more time in the mission field , however I don't like your insinuation that debating theology is somehow less important...
2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
daleyboy77 4 months ago in playlist More videos from LaneCh
@nikonrules303: adrian rogers takes the logic and exegesis out of it all and replaces them with eisegesis and illogic.
toobfunnybunny 5 months ago
Adrian Rogers takes the mystery out of it all. Thank you Dr. Rogers.
NikonRules303 5 months ago
Ephesians 2:5 "Made us alive in Christ when we were yet DEAD in trespass and sin."
There is no way any DEAD person can do anything. Lazarus had no ability to raise himself, his flesh was even stinking. Lazarus did not make himself alive Jesus the Author of life did! From my own personal experiences I did not come willingly to Christ and neither did Paul. I was literally arrested by God while sinking and drowning in my sins. Like a foolish drowning person, at first I kicked against the pricks!
NotFlaking 5 months ago
@NotFlaking Very good point.......
physicist21 2 months ago
I have noticed that there is a vitriol coming fr Arminians against Calvinists and I dont understand why,,,I have seen Arminains grossly twist Calvinist position and totally misrepresent them,,,why?
candiceevans1 6 months ago
I am attempting to learn about this subject. Can someone please answer this questions for me? Is "reformed theology" the same as "Calvanism? Thanks.
Discerningthetruth 6 months ago
@Discerningthetruth ehhh that's a hard one to answer and many may scream at me, but basically. The whole idea of reformed theology is that it is inline with the Reformers, who were basically Calvinist or a better word is monergistic. Also some would say that there is no such thing as a Reformed Baptist because to be truly "reformed" you must be a padeobaptist. It just depends on how one views the subject. But in general "most" people use the terms interchangeably.
Shenanigans19 6 months ago
@Shenanigans19 - thank you for your answer,,I did research a bit more since that post,,,and I was really shocked at this whole phenomena..it seems that it is causing a lot of confusion & hard feelings within the religious community. IMO people are following men rather than Christ. Thanks for your thoughtfulness & bravery in attempting to answer my question. I hope you don't get clobbered too hard for it! God Bless. :-)
Discerningthetruth 6 months ago
@Discerningthetruth Just to clarify I am a 5 point Calvinist and I in no way believe that I am follow a man (John Calvin) but that the revelation of Scripture is clearly presenting a view that Calvin expounded. It would be ridiculous for me to say I believe this (Reformed Doctrine) because it's what John Calvin taught, but that it is what Scripture is teaching. Primarily God's freedom to save sinners for His own eternal glory.
Shenanigans19 6 months ago
Thank you for posting this. I have never taken so much abuse from other believers as I have since declaring that I am now of the Reformed theology camp. It is the most beautiful theology of Gods word and it took me about twenty three years to get it. My mind now has a security in being His that fills my heart with awe and love for the one who chose me. He made me his and nobody not even myself can take me out of his hands. I love you Father, thank you for loving me.
theflarpus 6 months ago
Is Dr. James White the ONLY person that is authorized to speak on behalf of Calvinists? I have been looking for a valid debate, but can't find one. All I find is Mr. White, but not debating anyone face to face. Where are the face to face debates?
chapmaned 7 months ago
@chapmaned Never heard him claim to be the only authority on the subject. There have been many writers and speakers to speak on behalf of the doctrine of grace, predestination, Calvinism, etc. the names are many; Loraine Boettner, Gordon H. Clark, Jerome Zanchius, William Cooper, Edwin H. Palmer, Richard D. Phillips, RC Sproul, John Piper, to name a few. If you're looking for a good debate check out the Calvinist - Arminian debate featuring Jerry Walls, Bruce Ware. and others.
DougCameraMan 7 months ago in playlist the Calvinist dogma
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"...all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved."
mindsplintersfilms 7 months ago
If God "shot the cosmic dice...why should He be given praise and glory for that?" I have always thought a God that HAD to control EVERY detail to get the outcome HE wanted was MUCH weaker than a God who could allow variation and choice and still produce HIS perfect outcome! I'd love to hear some thoughts on this...referencing thoughts in the 27th minute.
Alohabmwjr 7 months ago
@Alohabmwjr Do you think that Reformed theology denies that man makes choices? And that there is "variation" in those choices?
There is an entire chapter "On Free Will" in the historic, Reformed confessions of faith (The Westminster, and 1689 Baptist confessions).
"Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation..." [1689 Baptist Confession, ch.9, sec.3].
The issue is about salvation, not everyday choices.
rkg62976 7 months ago
@rkg62976 Thanks for your response. There are two branches I have heard espouse views here...one that is monergistic in salvation...I see how they arrive at those conclusions (although I would be synergistic in salvation)...others are monergistic in sanctification as well and argue that a sovereign God and a libertine freewill cannot coexist (like a circle being a square).
Alohabmwjr 7 months ago
@Alohabmwjr My point in replying to your comment is that while God is sovereign over all events that take place temporally within His creation, this does not negate the fact that man makes choices on a daily basis; nor does it negate the fact that men make choices freely (that is, according to their nature). Reformed theology has never taught otherwise.
And you are correct, my friend, the issue is Monergism vs. Synergism with regard to salvation.
rkg62976 7 months ago
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Check out my YouTube channel/playlists and websites for present-truth materials, Three Angels' Messages and God's last-mercy warning to His people in these last days.
Papacy = Antichrist / Little Horn / Beast from the Sea
Roman Catholicism = Whore of Babylon
Investigative Judgement has commenced in 1844 (1st Angel’s Message)
Ellen G. White, 1827-1915 = End-time Prophet Sent of God
7th-day Sabbath = Seal of God
Sunday Worship to be Enforced as Mark of the Beast"
SeventhDayRemnant 7 months ago
It is so great to get to listen to one of the "chosen few". Congratulations on your election Mr. White, I'm just glad that you have so much time to spend on your ultra successful internet radio show, just make sure that none of those horrible, pathetic, unelect soles hear your message and decide to come to Christ. I think that we can definitely say that the conservative resurgence in the Southern Baptist Convention has gone way, way too far.
AUtiGRRRS 9 months ago
@AUtiGRRRS Calvinists would never seek "congratulations" for their being elect. It is something God does on his own initiative. They would also never characterize the unelect in the way that you did. In other words, you are using hyperbole and overstatement to build a straw man argument against the Calvinist position.
Also, James White is not a Southern Baptist, so he does not speak for Southern Baptists or as a representative of the Conservative Resurgence.
elderaps 7 months ago
Faith itself is something that must be done; but its importance is sufficient to justify its standing here as a synecdoche of all that must be done.As Dorris noted: "This verse illustrates the truth that the works of God are works ordained by God to be performed by men." We must believe. Even though God influences us to believe, Humans to be saved make a choice to believe or not to. God is Sovereign and God gave humans a choice to make. Love allows for choice. choice make Calvinism dead.
MRGV7373 9 months ago
Dr. White has his own reading for scripture verses that gives you the "Calvin" ways. Be aware that others think much different than what Dr. White. It is not grammar. Is a covenant one sided? or Two sided. Are humans already picked for heaven and hell? Tradition I know not. But how does Mat 23:37 have anything to do with God's foreknowledge?? Does God fling them into Hell. Does God have such a large ego that he does what He wants with NO JUSTICE? This is just stupid. God is Just
MRGV7373 9 months ago
God knows all that will come. God does not cause Hitler to kill. Being sovereign does not mean that God controls everything. God allows for freedom of his being. If not than God created SIN. Would God create sin? Never, Dr. Whites perspective makes God a Creator Satan's evil, Sin. If God foreknew, then God sovereignty made it happen. That is preposterous. God's purpose allow for freedom. Freedom allows for choice and choice allows for true Love. ST. John GOD is LOVE.
MRGV7373 9 months ago
Are you kidding me? I stopped listening after Mr. White said "God doesn't know future actions" His ministry is named right the begining and the end, after listening to this dweeb it should be the begininig of the end of his ministry. Mr. White get a life, acceot Jesus as Lord and Savior sir.
Like Adrian Rogers says..."that's not worth a half of halleluiah
brontoburger 9 months ago