Billy Graham is known to have said some mistakes... but he is ALSO known to have ADMITTED it and APOLOGISED for misspeaking! I think what he was trying to express in that thing was that all people have the opportunity to be saved Billy did not believe in universalism.
All have sinned and greatly offended the holy God of the bible. The just punishment is death then hell. That's not Gods will. He suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His life's blood so He could legally dismiss your case. You must repent turn from sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your salvation.
MacArthur in other venues preaches a gospel that God can save people who do not believe in Christ. The very young, the profoundly retarded, the severely mentally ill..... Many Biblical and Christian theologians would also add those who have never heard the gospel. It is small step from what MacArthur teaches.
The Post Vatican II Popes are not real Roman Catholics. They are wolfs in sheep clothing. Read Matthew Chapter 24>> The Post Vatican II Popes are pretending to be Catholic/Christians. For they can destory the church within.
@ChimuChipmunk, Why is he a false prophet? Can you give me examples through the Gospel why John MacArthur is a false teacher. please because I would really like to see why he's a false teacher.
what happen to the devil is he no longer decieving the whole world ,most catholic do not believe in the devil or hell anymore thats why you are hearing these statements by catholic clergy. Satan is very powerful in the world today.the sign of the times folks.
Carriebrb and gtepp031387....you are not gonna change each others mind so go read the book of James ( I think it talks about those who like to argue their point).
MacArthur is the living embodiment of Matt: 7:15-22. He is skull-like as he babbles his false interpretations of Scripture through bad fitting dentures.
"On the Lord's own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks; but first confess your sins, so that your sacrifice may be pure. However, no one quarreling with his brother may join your meeting until they are reconciled; your sacrifice must not be defiled. For here we have the saying of the Lord: 'In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice; for I am a mighty King, says the Lord; and my name spreads terror among the nations.'" ~ The Didache 90 A.D
"Sin cannot tear you away from him [Christ] even though you commit adultery a hundred times a day and commit as many murders." ~ Martin Luther...Oh you Protestants you follower of this Satan worshipper how can any of you flea the comming condemnation!
The church of Rome has primacy becaues it is the seat of Peter where he and Paul gave the keys to the Kingdom into the hands of Linus, who gave it to Clement, and so on and so forth.
The word Pope means father as in "“Even if you should have countless guides to Christ, yet you do not have many fathers, for I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel”, 1st Corinthians 4:15...Yep thats in there too.
Echarist(meaning to give thanks) is all over the bible, simple open your eyes read any one of the gosples in original Greek and you will see the word all over the place.
@gtepp031387 - your system hijacked the term (as they did catholic which means universal not Roman) it does mean to give thanks. Not the body of Jesus sacrificed "in an unbloody manner" and if you deny it isn't a sacrifice of Jesus in total body and divinity you are declared anathema?!
@carriebrk "They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes." ~ St Ignatius of Antioch 80-107 A.D.
Mary and all who are true believers, once sanctified, become fully intirgrated into the divine body of Christ. They become one with and in Jesus with him where he is(John 17:20-26) so wether you like it or not when you pray to Jesus his body is there with him.
By the way for anyone Purgatory(meaning purging fire) ois clearly in the bible "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:13-15
Religion is on its way out. Conservatism is on its way out. Stop demanding that all social issues are handles ONE WAY ONLY.
Nobody is bothering YOUR church wedding. If YOUR church hates gay weddings, nobody will insist to have one there. YOU prefer man/woman marriage? GET ONE!
Is anyone infringing on YOUR right and benefits? NO! Stop insisting that ALL AMERICANS bow to YOUR kind of worship and social activities.
YOU do your thing. Let OTHERS do theirs! You break the golden Rule 24/7!
I guess these preachers haven't ventured over to the pro islamic sites on utube, because if you speak about the Bible, they in unison are taught it is corrupted and not God's word And Christ is denied as a true source of belief, because he didn't die on the cross, and God can't have a son Buddists, etc, believe in multiple deities and their full attention is there.So if the Catholics believe they can make it then so can Jezebel, moloch and baal worshippers, and the like. So why have a Judgement?
I guess these preachers haven't ventured over to the pro islamic sites on utube, because if you speak about the Bible, they in unison are taught it is corrupted and not God's word And Christ is denied as a true source of belief, because he didn't die on the cross, and God can't have a son Buddists, etc, believe in multiple deities and their full attention is there.So if the Catholics believe they can make it then so can Jezebel, moloch and baal worshippers, and the like. So why have a Judgement?
Buddha was saved and fully realized before Jesus walked the earth. He even prophesied that a fully perfect man, more perfect than himself would be born 500 years from his time. The great man would symbolize blood on his palms and a cross. "Through me" was an old saying in those times that meant through example. "master, how do we become more perfect" "Be more like me", Jesus said. "Love the Father with all of your heart, and your neighbor as yourself, that is the WHOLE LAW! THE WHOLE LAW!
SHAME ON YOU TRAITORS OF THE GOSPEL. FALSE TITHE GRABBING PREACHERS. YOU DESPISE LAW EXCEPT MAL. 3:10. IGNORANT PULPITERS. TITHE WAS FOR LEVI WHO HAD NO LAND IN ISRAEL. YOU INSIST? THEN 12 MEMBERS REQUIRE 1 PASTOR AND SO JOEL OSTEN SHOULD NOT RAKE HIS FILTY LUCRE BUT SHAEW IT TO 3000 CO PASTORS FOR 36,000 DECEIVED MEMBERS OF THAT CHURXH. YOU ARE TRAITORS OF TRUTH TOGETHER W GRAHAM, OPHRA, AND ALL WHO FOLLOW YOU. JUDAS WILL GO TO HEAVEN AHEAD OF YOU
@MrLoudmouthspeaker There can only be one curch that is the one that Jesus established, and the christianity of history is not protestant, that is for sure. Basicaly it is the Catholic or the Orthodox church, more study to see which one it is though....The Pope has always been head of the temperal church, who sits on the chair of St Peter, from the earliest Christians like St ignatius we see that the bishop of Rome "hath the presideny" of the church.
The only way to get to the Father is through Jesus, but those who truly dont have the chance to accept christ who live good lives will have a chance once they die. Protestants twist the issue and twist catholic theology
@superdubman999 friend, good people don't go to heaven, the bible says there is none who does good, NONE! it also says the righteousness of man is filthy rags to God. That's why we need a saviour, Jesus! other religions don't have Him!
that's why we must preach the gospel to them rather than spreading this deception about getting to heaven without knowing Christ or by being good or living good lives (which is works) all this does is send them to hell quicker. thats a Catholic lie
@superdubman999 Yes something the fundys will never understand if a person "through no fault of there own" never came to know GOD or hear his word they will be given a chance. To say otherwise is to confess that GOD is not just and fair, and this would require one to reject too many verses to count.
@gtepp031387 No one deserves to be saved. The FAIR thing would be for all of us to go to hell for breaking God's rules (the 10 Commandments). God is merciful and kind. How can we say this about God if he is sending people to hell? Well he has provided his Son Jesus Christ who died on the cross for your sins, and the sins of the world. He has been inconceivably merciful to us by rescuing us from an entirely just punishment.
@TheRocksteadily I would have to disagree with you that everyone desevres hell, I believe everyone deserves death, but not hell. We have all lost eternal life, through the rejection of grace commited by Adams original sin, this is just and fair as we never deserved life to begin with. However this original sin doesn't merit eternal torment, therfore unborn babies, infants, younge children, and even adults "through no fault of there own" have not come to know GOD or hear his word...cont..
@TheRocksteadily ...cont...shall be given a chance, somehow someway to repent and enter into life. Or would you condem even unborn babies and infants?
@TheRocksteadily By the way GOD doesn't send people to hell, people choose to follow the devil and the fallen angles, seperating themselves from GOD, thus sending themselves to hell. GOD "wills that all men be saved"
@superdubman999 You have itchy ears. False doctrine of devils has been instilled in your heart. Jesus' church does not look anything like the catholic church. Bare the cross dont wear the cross
@superdubman999 The Roman Catholic Church teaches that after death, everyone who has sinned will go to "purgatory", where they will face punishment for their sins. After this they are then allowed into the heavenly kingdom, once they have "PAID" for their sins. But with an indulgence, you can pay the church some money and you will receive an indulgence which will either reduce your time in "purgatory" or erase it all together. By the way, the Vatican was built on indulgences, and Martin exposed
@douglasdolly "The Roman Catholic Church teaches that after death, everyone who has sinned will go to "purgatory"...
This is simply a lie. We believe that an elect few will go to purgatory(meaning purging fire) after death to PURIFY, not pay, for the stain of sin. Further more we believe that some will be given the crown, like Martys, without going thorugh any purification.
@douglasdolly "But with an indulgence, you can pay the church some money and you will receive an indulgence"
There was a time yes when some corupted Catholics sold indulgences for money, but this was never an approved teaching and was wrong and has been corrected.
VATICAN (CWNews.com) -- While the Vatican prepares to receive an accepted flood of pilgrims during the Jubilee Year, the Pontifical Council for Migrants has announced that the indulgences offered to pilgrims will also be available to refugees, itinerants, and travelers who are unable to reach Rome.
In a press release for the event, the shrine reported that Pope Benedict XVI granted a plenary indulgence to those who make a pilgrimage to see and pray before the relic of St. John Bosco, in accordance with the usual conditions of partaking in Confession, the Eucharist and prayers for the Holy Father’s intentions. (CNA DC shrine to host St. John Bosco relics) Sep 27, 2010
@carriebrk These indulgences are being given in the proper way, by increasing holyness, the church has every right to dol out indulgences in this way.
@gtepp031387 - Jesus called John the Baptist the greatest man that ever lived. Scripture states after he was executed that they buried him. Wonder why they didn't display him and grant indulgences to pilgrims.
Respond to this video... Acts 4:10-12 .....'Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Respond to this video... Members are taught to say the hail Mary and repeat it over and over again. Not only that, if you watch any Catholic TV, and see the nuns praying, you will see that they send the vast majority of their prayers to Mary, rather than Jesus. So what does Jesus Himself say about repetitive prayers?
Matthew 6:7 ...'But when ye pray, use NOT vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.'
'But when ye pray, use NOT vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.'
More selective cherry picking, otherwise the 4 beings must be disobeying Christ's command just as you say Catholics do. Rev 4:8 "The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: “ Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!”
Respond to this video... What false doctrine? Are you kidding me! Mary, Purgatory, Infallibility, Indulgences, Transubstination, Baptism, Prayers for the dead, Worship of cross images and relics, Holy water, Rosary beads, Preist celibacy, Tradition, Justification,Assumption of Mary, Trafficking the souls of men, salvation. These are just a few. Your pride and ego will defend these, and deny truth.
I used to be part of the episcopal church.I know the arguments for the protestant side. And guess what? They are all Right! What it is, is a misunderstanding and perversion of what the Catholic Church really believes. You say Mary, but catholics do not worship mary. Praying by definition is spiritual communication, and throughout the bible people have asked others to pray for them, paul asks the churches, pray for me. If Jesus will listen to others prayers, how too will he listen to his mothers?
@superdubman999 -O Virgin most pure, wholly unspotted,O Mary,Mother of God,Queen of the universe,you are above all saints,the hope of the elect and the joy of all the blessed. It is you who have reconciled us with God,you are the only refuge of sinners and the safe harbor of those who are shipwrecked;you are the consolation of the world, the ransom of captives,the health of the weak, the joy of the afflicted and the salvation of all who have recourse to you,and we beg you to have pity on us.
@superdubman999 -In order that I may never be a slave of the devil through sin but may ever live with my heart humble and pure, I entrust myself wholly to you. I consecrate my heart to you forever. by St. Ephrem of Edessa A misunderstanding? Really? " With the act of consecration, you have put your life in my hands. Now it belongs to me; it is mine. I have taken possession of it, and now, bit by bit, I am transforming it according to my will." (excerpt Fr Gobbi message from Lady Fatima)
@superdubman999 - "according to my will", "I entrust myself wholly to you" "You have reconciled us with God" "you are the salvation of all who have recourse to you" - These are all attributes only the Lord possesses. Do you really not see? It's His will, Jesus said "Come to ME" Through Christ we are reconciled with God. Acts 4 :12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
@carriebrk Im dont dissagree i don't understand what your trying to tell me? Jesus is the only path to salvation. Yes yes i agree thats why im devoting my life to him as a preacher. And to spreading the good news. But not all are born where they hear the word and have the chance to understand it. The book of romans talks about how the gentiles who do not know christ will be judged by their actions as well, but when they die if they lived good (ghandi) they will have a chance to accept or reject
@carriebrk Jesus and Mary are one(John 17:20-26) she is part of his very body, the holy ark of the New covenate, how dare you try to seperate what GOD has joined together.
@gtepp031387 -Luke 11:27,28 "a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!" But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!"
@carriebrk Yep blessed are all people who keep the word of the LORD. Yet all generations shall not call them blessed.
Can you forfill the command of GOD the holy spirit and say Mary is blessed?
By the way correct interpritation english interpritation from original Latin is "rather" not on the contrary..man who is interpriting your bible, and why does it differ from the original bible that was cannoized by the initre church at council?
@gtepp031387 - why wouldn't all generations call them blessed? Actually the KJV also says "rather", that was the NASB. Webster defines "rather" as 1-with better reason, 2-preferably. 3-to the contrary. Jesus just said it's more preferable to have the blessing of hearing the Word of God and keeping it. Either case, a blessing from God, something to be greatful for, not because of anything we did,(or she did) Even faith is a gift from God.
@carriebrk By the way idols are anything you put above GOD, not something carved or made, ask a Jew if "graven images" are forbiden..lol...you are so out of your league .
@douglasdolly 1) purgatory biblical....1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).
@douglasdolly Infalliblity of the Pope "You are Kepha and on this Kepha I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall never overcome it". Therfore when Kepha(translated is Peter) speaks to and for the initre church he is incapable of leading it to the gates of hell.
@douglasdolly Indulgences...tell me how was Mosses and Enock and others in heaven if not for the indulgences of Christ? Are you saying they made heaven without Christ?
@gtepp031387 - what about when he said "I am the door" or "I am the light" what about "I am the vine"- what about when He told Peter to feed my sheep? It's a rediculous question. He is refered to as the "Lamb", the "Lion of Judah"-can you really not see how rediculous this is? When He agonized in the garden He asked the Father to "take this cup from me"-was He holding a cup He didn't want in His hand anymore? No He wasn't lying in any of these cases-it's a metaphore.
@gtepp031387 - what about when he said "I am the door" or "I am the light" what about "I am the vine"- what about when He told Peter to feed my sheep? It's a rediculous question. He is refered to as the "Lamb", the "Lion of Judah"-can you really not see how rediculous this is? When He agonized in the garden He asked the Father to "take this cup from me"-was He holding a cup He didn't want in His hand anymore? No He wasn't lying in any of these cases-it's a metaphore.
@douglasdolly Your claiming Baptism is a false doctrin? I suppose you meant litteral baptism instead of your man made doctrin of symbolic baptism, tell me can symbolic things save?.... Becaues the scripture says baptism does save "Baptism that now saves you" 1 Peter 3:21 and "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved" Mark 16:16...humm so who is the one word for word contridicting scripture yep it's your man made doctrin.
@douglasdolly Prayers for the dead...The book of Maccabees invokes prayer to the dead as a “excellent and noble (thing)”(2 Maccabees 12:43) stating that “if he had not expected the dead to rise again it would have bin useless and foolish to pray for them in death”(2 Maccabees 12:44), but Judas the servant of GOD did pray for the dead and what he did was said to be an “excellent and noble way”..Now I know you took this book out of the scripture the apostles used ans followed the man Matin Luther.
@gtepp031387 the Hebrew Old Testament has never numbered these apocryphal writings. The apostles in their preaching mention many Old Testament events, but they never refer to any incidents or characters of the Apocrypha. The New Testament writers quote from practically all of the Old Testament books, but nowhere quote from the Apocrypha as "Scripture." The canon of the Old Testament accepted by Jesus and His apostles should be sufficient for the Christian today.
@carriebrk The Septuagint was the holy book of the Jews from 300 B.C to 90 A.D., put together by the top 72 teachers of Jewish law, and remain to this day for the Jews in Africa and Ethiopea, who rejected the heretical council of Jamnia. The apostles also used the Septuagint and quoted from the specific compilation nearly 300 times while writting the NT. This compilation had all 7 books that where removed by the heretical Jews at Jamnia, which the early Christians opposed.
@carriebrk The near 300 quotes are every Greek usage of scripture that the apostles quoted from in the OT. The Talmud(which was not yet put together ) was written in Hebrew, the apostles spoke and quoted from a Greek source which was the Septuagint, the apoved compilation of the scripture since 300 B.C.. This would exclude the gosple of Matthew who wrote in Aramaic, who most probley used a varity or various scrolls.
@carriebrk The apostles used the book of Macc in the NT, and in the writtings of the three apostolic fathers, Clement, Polycarp, and Ignatius all 7 books that Jamnia removed are used. These three where taught face to face and ordained face to face by the apostles. Why have you changed the apostolic scripture by removing the 7 books from the apostolic scripture, that is, the Septuagint?
@carriebrk "The apostles used the book of Macc in the NT" - for example where?"
Hebrews 11:35, which depicts women being tortured and not accepting “deliverance, in order to obtain a better resurrection”, is clearly talking about 2 Maccabees chapter 7, as no other place in the old testament can explain or covers this story.
@gtepp031387 - Macc has historical value and may include accounts of events that the Bible states. It is not a quote by any stretch of the imagination. That's rediculous. That's the best you got out of a claimed 300 "quotes" as you put it? What a joke.
@carriebrk Where did I say it was quoted? I said they USED it not quoted from it..or can you find me this story in the OT smart one?....The apostles used the Septagint, this is a historical fact. They spoke and wrot Greek, which greek scroll do you suppose they quoted from smart one? Why do all there quotes match up with the holy Septagint and not with the heretical Talmud?
@carriebrk Why do the direct apostolic sucessores quote from the Septagint as well, if the apostles had a different book they where using, why do there direct students use the Septuagint?....Simply why have you changed the apostolic scripture?
@carriebrk "Sin cannot tear you away from him [Christ] even though you commit adultery a hundred times a day and commit as many murders." ~ Martin Luther, letter to Melanchton, Aug. 1, 1521
@carriebrk "Many sweat to reconcile St. Paul and St. James, but in vain. 'Faith justifies' and 'faith does not justify' contradict each other flatly. If any one can harmonize them I will give him my doctor's hood and let him call me a fool." ~ Martin Luther..yep great teacher huh?
@carriebrk "We should throw the Epistle of James out of this school [the University of Wittenberg]..."~Martin Luther..oh wait he didn't stop there either....
"The fact that [the biblical book]Hebrews is not an epistle of St. Paul, or of any other apostle, is proved by what it says in chapter two...." ~ Martin Luther..yep you prots have a long line of trying to remove books from the holy bible.
@carriebrk As well the writters of the NT relied upon holy traditon, not scripture alone, they quote from several prophisies and other various sources as well as using Jewish tradition, several times in the NT. For instance...Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is oral tradition. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.
@gtepp031387 - Taught face to face by the apostles? So were the churches to whom the letters in Revelation were written to, Only two got no condemnations. The Corinthians were taught directly by Paul and his letters address "false teachers", and error in doctrine. To the Galatians he writes "I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel. Closer proximity doesn't mean anything.
@carriebrk John himself, who wrote Revelations personaly taught Ignatius and ordained Polycarp to the office of bishop. Are you saying he made a mistake with his choice in who he, himself, put over the churches?
John bound authority into Polycarp, and gave his teachings to Ignatius. Both Ignatius and Polycarp gave there lives for the faith, I will not hear a word spoken against them!
Clement the holy spirit personally says has his name in the book of life, and orders you to help and accept!
@carriebrk Their synagogues ... should be set on fire."
"Their homes should be broken down and destroyed. They ought to be put under one roof or in a stable, like Gypsies, in order that they may realize that they ... are ... but miserable captives."
"They should be deprived of their prayerbooks and Talmuds."
"Their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach any more." ~ Martin Luther...yep great teacher huh?..you follow this guy sick sick people.
@carriebrk "Heretics are not to be disputed with, but to be condemned unheard, and whilst they perish by fire, the faithful ought to pursue the evil to its source, and bathe their heads in the blood of the Catholic bishops, and of the Pope, who is the devil in disguise." ~ Martin Luther, the founder of the heretical sect of protestantism, I challendge you to find anything close to this from the Pope....I'll be waiting...
@gtepp031387 - I don't hold any man's writing equal to Scripture, you do. The fact that you can find an emotional outburst by someone means nothing. It doesn't make unbiblical practice any more biblical. I could list writings of historians, Foxe's book of Martyr's for one. You would call everything a lie that's not listed on the catholic encyclopedia page.
@carriebrk The bible is the cannon of the Catholic church, it is the prime doctrin of the church, and the formost authoritative doctrin the church has, but to say it is the only inspired work, and the only authority, is not only silly but a word for word contridiction of the holy word. "hold fast to the traditions...wether by word of mouth(what the church calls holy tradition) or be letter of ours(holy scripture)...There is the fact that scripture itself is holy tradition as well.
@gtepp031387 Josephus, expressly limited the Hebrew canon to twenty-two books, which are the exact equivalent of the thirty-nine books of our Old Testament. Josephus knew of other Jewish writings down to his time, but he did not regard them as having equal authority with the canonical works. So the Apocrypha were never received by the Jews as God-given Scripture. there is no evidence that these books were ever accepted by any Jewish community, either in or outside of the land of Palestine.
@douglasdolly Worship of cross and relics....Sry but "Worship is for GOD alone" ~ Infallible dogma from the head of the temperal church, that is, the Pope.
@gtepp031387 - what is your definition of worship? Merriam-webster definition of worship: "Reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also: an act of expressing such reverence; a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual; extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem."
Show one Biblical example where Jesus or the apostles condoned any such behavior. When Cornelius fell at Peter's feet he said "stand up; I myself am also a man" Acts 10:26
@douglasdolly Holy water?...Guess they didn't use water in your baptism eh?
Rosary beads and Priest celibacy are practises not doctrins. But each is biblical. For instance the Rosary is 99.9 % scripture, and the bible says that "there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it." Matthew 19:12
@douglasdolly Tradition? "Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle." 2 Thessalonians 2:15
Justification? "See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone" James 2:24
Assumtion of Mary Psalm 132:8 - "Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the Ark (Mary) of thy might." Both Jesus and Mary were taken up to their eternal resting place in heaven.
@gtepp031387 You pick a verse to justify your false doctrine? LOL Traditions ! It doesnt mean you make new ones! He is talking about the traditions at that time. Not traditions that the Roman Catholic church invented 300 years later. You have no bible knowledge and that is evident.
You do realize tradition and oral instruction were the only methods of teaching Christianity for many centuries after Christ's death. Do some research on the compilation of the bible, and you'll appreciate the value of tradition and oral instruction and the Catholic Church's work in bringing the bible to you.
Do you think all Christians had access to entire bible prior to the 15th century (printing press invention)?
@182RG - Col 4:16- "Now when this epistle is read among you, see that it is read also in the church of the Laodiceans, and that you likewise read the epistle from Laodicea." Rev 1:19 "Write the things which you have seen..." 2 Pet 3:15 "..brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles,...twist to their own destruction, as they do also the REST of the Scriptures" They copied and shared it from the beginning, some letters quote others too.
@182RG - the Jews preserved Scripture for centuries without a printing press. They used scribes-Mark was in a sense Peter's scribe, that's why the gospel according to Mark has apostolic authority. Mark was Barnabas's cousin.
>>>the Jews preserved Scripture for centuries without a printing press. They used scribes
That's true, but much of their religion was not written - the Oral Torah. And the Church also used scribes before the printing press (monks) - Even though the majority of the early gentile Christians couldn't read a single word.
@182RG - only the Rabbis gave ideological significance to the fact that they transmitted their tradition orally. Jesus himself condemned it "teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." Matt 15:6-9 ; Mark 7:6-9. In John 5:10 the Jews yelled at the healed crippled man for picking up his bed and walking on the Sabbath saying it was unlawful, they rebuked the apostles for picking grain heads on the sabbath saying it was unlawful. Refering to the oral traditions you speak of.
@182RG -also considder-Jesus and the apostles quoted Scripture very often "thus fulfilling the Scripture" "for as it is written" etc. "The Law and the Prophets" were how they described the OT. The first 5 books from Moses, the law, and the rest the prophets. They never reiterated, or refered to any oral "man-made" tradition except to condemn it. Catholic means "universal"-the Roman church gained authority because of Constantine and politicized Christianity.
>> They never reiterated, or refered to any oral "man-made" tradition except to condemn it
Not true:
Matt 2: "He shall be called a Nazarene." Can you show me this mentioned in scripture?
1 Cor 10:"All drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ" Referring to the Israelites journey. Where is this rock that followed them mentioned in OT?
You claim bible ownership capital offense - Source?
@182RG - I stand corrected on both points. However, neither case can be considdered a "law" or a "doctrine", and would not justify the adding of the same under pretense of "well it's tradition". There is much quoting of "church fathers" to justify the addition of doctrine's in the Roman system,but they are not "inspired", and often didn't agree with each other. Augustine is highly quoted for his introduction of infant baptism, it was already the 300's, yet is still claimed a "tradition".
@carriebrk "Augustine is highly quoted for his introduction of infant baptism, it was already the 300's"
Actually this was decided long before Augustine(though Augustine imput is alway a good thing).
"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men" ~ St Irenaeus around 150 A.D.
@carriebrk ..cont..."Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" ~ St Hippolytus (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).
and then there was a synodical(offical authoritative teaching on it)..."As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth,...cont
@carriebrk ..cont... In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" ~ St Cyprians' documents on the council of Carthrage 257 A.D.
@gtepp031387 - as I said above the church fathers aren't Scripture. So do you then agree with the Pope's stance that it isn't necessary to believe in Jesus Christ? Or do you beleive Jesus' words recorded in Scripture "Nobody comes to the Father except by me"? Do you believe "What God has joined together let no man put assunder" or do you believe a few bucks and questionaire's can nullify a marriage in the sight of God? And they did forbid the BIble, do some research.
@carriebrk 3) If a marriage is unlawful it can be nullified yes, even Jesus states thus, and the church investigates these claims to see if they are true.
4) We never talked about forbiding the bible..you must be addressing this comment at someone else?....If you like we can talk about all the false bibles, with missing and mistranslated content, that where being made in the 1500s and the churches action on this if you like though...?
@gtepp031387 - No, actually he allowed "divorce" for sexual immorality. There is only one reason-and there are a miriad of annulments granted for other reasons. Jude said "I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." And Paul said "But even if we, or an agenl from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."
@carriebrk "No, actually he allowed "divorce" for sexual immorality."
Nope actually he said "except it be unlawful, there are several things in Jewish tradition that made a marrige unlawful sexual immorality is one yes but there are others.
The faith delivered from the saints..humm as you have no connection to the Saints and your church was formed in the 1500s by Martin Luther, I find this quiet silly to be kind.
@gtepp031387 - No connection to the saints? According to Paul, and Jude, and others. Saints are beleivers. The Jews were guilty of the same elitest attitude. "We are the children of Abraham" Jesus calls all sinners to repentence, and bids us "come to Me all ye who are weak and heavy laden and I will give you rest" Paul chastised those who said "I am of Apollos, I am of Paul" there is only one head of the church, which is Jesus Christ. Matt 5:31,32 Jesus states "except sexual immorality"
@carriebrk In all your giberish you did not answere any of my questions..you just bounced around like a kangaroo..what are you trying to imply with all your bouncing?
As far as protestant Saints there are none. To be a saint you must have a true and full belife in Jesus, and one can not say they believe in Jesus and not follow his teachings, which is what all protestants do. For instance all protestants teach that the eucharist is not the body of Christ yet Jesus says "This IS my body"..cont...
@carriebrk ..."this IS my blood"...This teaching of symbolic eucharist is in direct contridiction to the holy word, so all protestants are immediatly disqualified from being saints, on the grounds of unorthodox teaching. There are many more unorthodox word for word contriditions that the protestant teach such as faith alone, though the bible says "NOT by faith alone" James 2:24
@carriebrk And yes you have zero conection to the saints, or please find me one christian before the 1500s that believed in symbolic eucharist, symbolic baptism, sola fide, sola scriptura, none sucession of the apostles, none purging fire, none eternal punishment,... really find me protestantism before the 1500s. Lets face facts your faith was invented in the mind of Martin Luther, my faith has been believed from the time of the apostles, throughout all ages, all the way up to today.
@gtepp031387 - The Jews are God's chosen people. Was every Jew in the OT saved because he belonged to the right denomination? There are stories of the Albegencies, the Hussites, the Paulitians. Not to mention the bickerings over doctrine within the Roman heirarchy. The Roman church gained political authority and punished anyone who didn't adhere to their teachings, and burned their writings. It doesn't mean they weren't there. Jan Hus was burned at the stake for denying transubstantiation.
@carriebrk The Catholic church has never ordered anyone burned alive, please give one authoritative teaching(letter from the Pope or cannon of a council) that says to burn anyone alive or stop posting propganda. The only church leaders that ordered others burned at the stake are the founders of your heretical sect, that is, Martin Luther, and John Calvin.
@gtepp031387 - regardless of your acceptance of Roman revisionist history-your point was that my religion was "invented by Luthor" and nobody else thought that way and you are incorrect. Even the "catholic encyclopedia" acknowledges that Wycliffe and Hus taught against the doctrine of transubstantiation, and popery. You may agree that the teaching is heretical, but your assertion that Biblical authority was a new idea with Luthor is false.
@carriebrk Luther is the main founder of protestantism, this is a historical fact. Protestantism(Captola P the religion) did not exist before Luther, though he of course was not the first to protest. Luther invented the doctrin of sola scriptura, which no one had ever heard of before. Luther invented the doctrin of sola fide which no one had ever heard of before. Simple and plain these are the two formost doctrins that the 44,000 and counting protestant denominations have.
@gtepp031387 - He didn't invent the doctrine of sola scriptura, he merely gave it a title. Just like the Catholics didn't invent the doctrine of the "trinity" they merely gave it a title. Christ is the founder of Christianity. And is the head of the church. He is the cornerstone. That's all that matters.
@carriebrk The trinity is something that has always been believed, it was not invented.
sola scripture is an invented word for word contridiction of the holy bible, as well as an afront to the teaching method of the apostles and all the Saints.
Yep Christ is the head of the church, who left Peter to tend and feed the initire flock in his temperal place, giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven and naming him the rock on which the church would be built.
@gtepp031387 - Hus was before Luther, so was Wycliffe. Look up the history of "sacraments"-now your declared "anathema" if you don't belelve their are 7, at one time there was 12-so were those people all damned? Early critics of icons included Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Minucius Felix , Lactancius. and Eusebius (pictures and statues of Christ), not until the Second Council of Nicaea in 787 was the veneration of icons affirmed. The church fathers are quoted selectively.
@carriebrk Eusebius is not a father, as he doesn't have sanctification, I repect his work though so again chapter verse and letter.
The holy icons have always been used, the diciple and gosple writter Luke painted several, some even survive today. The Jews use holy images as well, GOD ordere them put onto his holy ark, and in his holy temple, where the Jews venerated and bowed before these images, though not in worship, even Jesus bowed and venerated these images.
@carriebrk The definition of Worship for GOD is not websters modern definition. We can see GOD was fine with veneration, bowing, respect, and honor being given to the holy ones. If you wish I can go through all the times GOD allowed veneration to be given to the holy ones.
The one who bowed before Peter did so in worship not in respect and honor as the bible clearly says. Bowing in respect and honor is approved in to many passages to count.
@gtepp031387- Paul "confronted Peter to his face" Gal 2:11 blaming him for the "heresy" he'd just corrected (that's why he said "even if we" as I just quoted. It would seem then, that the "truth" of the gospel would supercede any fallable person. And wouldn't Jude's statement "once for all" give one the impression there wouldn't be addendums? What about John's quote in Rev. about not adding or taking away anything. Saints are believers-not specially "venerated" people.
@carriebrk Paul actually confronted Cephas, who shared the same name as the apostles Peter, but who was one of the 70 diciples. Johns statment was for the book of Rev itself, the bible was not even compiled at the time he wrote this book. The Saints are one with and in Jesus part of his holy body, I am sorry you think respect and honor are not do to the holy body of Christ.
@gtepp031387 - what is your basis for that assumption with Peter. Of course the saints are one with and in Jesus. It's a large jump to considder anything they write equal with scripture. When Peter came in Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I myself am also a man" Most of the benedictions in the epistles state "to God, alone wise, be the glory through Jesus Christ forever." for an example.
@carriebrk Sry part 1 and 2 appear to be missing huh?...well lets see If I can remeber what I posted, that i apparently didn't post...
1) We believe that someone "through no fault of there ownb" who has not come to know Jesus can be saved yes...or do you condemm infants and children who die?
2) We believe also that the Saints and Jesus are one, and that they are part of his very body with him where he is according to John 17:20-26...and as you stated what GOD has joined together....
@gtepp031387 - he wasn't refering to infants and children, he was refering to other religions who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ. I don't condemn anybody, but believe the words of Jesus who said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not beleieved in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18. Isn't that the purpose for the great commission? The cousil of Trent declared "anathema" anyone not of the Roman church.
@carriebrk "he wasn't refering to infants and children"...humm where does it state this?...I call this burger King theology made the way you want it? sillyness...
Tell me how does one believe in the NAME is it just believeing in the letters, or the meaning that counts? Say if one doesn't confess the letters but confesses the meaning is he saved?..you do know right the name Jesus is incorrect from the original translation?
@gtepp031387 - I was refering to the Pope-his speach was not refering to infants and children. If I had been refering to the Lord I'd have capitalized "he". John states "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the WOrd became flesh and dwelt among us..." Jesus fulfilled God's whole plan of salvation as revealed in His Word. Believing in Jesus is knowing, I have no worthyness in myself, but I can humbly ask for His forgiveness, He payed my debt.
@gtepp031387 - John 1:12 " But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name; who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." Romans 5:1 "Therefore, having been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God." Humbling reality.
@182RG - "source"-look up anything on the mideavel period, or the "reformation" period. John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, William Tyndale, Myles Coverdale, Jon Hus... It was all about making the Bible available to people in their own language.
It's simply not true the church made "it (bible ownership) unlawful by penalty of death" This lie orginated in the book "Roman Catholicism" by Loraine Boettner- a rabid antiCatholic. It has since been quoted by other authors and taken as fact by numerous antiCatholics.
There were some sects that, similar to today's JWs, retranslated the bible to conform to their heretical theologies. These books were banned, and destroyed if found by the church.
@182RG - Further-the Roman church in it's quest for power and dominance, are guilty of attempting to hoard and control Scripture-they didn't want to "give" it as you say, to anybody. They used it to control and manipulate the masses eventually making it unlawful by penalty of death to have any. People who couldn't read were taught by preachers, who preached the word. What could possibly be the use of observing rituals in a language nobody knew? (Latin)
@gtepp031387 Thou, and the ark of thy strength - The ark, the symbol of the divine power, as if the power of God resided there, or as if the Almighty had his abode there. Perhaps the language was derived from the fact that the ark, in the wars of the Hebrews against their foes, was a symbol of the divine presence and protection - that by which the divine power was put forth. You dont have a clue
@douglasdolly "Mary is not the Ark, goofy catholics yuor funny"
Intresting that all the early christians believe she was, as well as John starts to decribe the ark then stops to talk about a mysterious woman, I think I'll stick with them thank you.
“At that time, the Savior coming from the Virgin, the Ark, brought forth His own Body into the world from that Ark, which was gilded with pure gold within by the Word, and without by the Holy Ghost;" ~St. Hippolytus 170 - 236
"The ark is verily the holy Virgin, gilded within and without, who received the treasure of universal sanctification. Arise, O Lord, from the Father’s bosom, to raise up again the ruined race of our first parent” ~St. Gregory Thaumaturgus 213-270
Have you read Luke 1? Do you not see the types (prefigurements) of Mary housing the New Covenant (baby Jesus) just as the old Ark housed the Old Covenant as Moses new it that Luke is pointing out - Exodus and 1&2 Samuel, Deut 10, Heb 9 (the word of God-ten commandments vs the Word incarnate/the manna vs the Bread of Life)
Billy Graham is known to have said some mistakes... but he is ALSO known to have ADMITTED it and APOLOGISED for misspeaking! I think what he was trying to express in that thing was that all people have the opportunity to be saved Billy did not believe in universalism.
Brightstar27 2 weeks ago
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When the ROMAN CATHOLIC EMPIRE lost its ability to burn people alive, and get off scot free, they lost some of their power.
When the ROMAN CATHOLIC EMPIRE lost its ability to murder protestants in their beds, and get away with it, they lost some of their power.
Now all they can do is remind you that JESUS AND THE VIRGIN MARY REALLY, REALLY NEED YOUR MONEY. LOTS OF YOUR MONEY. EVEN ALL OF YOUR MONEY.
dirtbagcatholics 1 month ago
All have sinned and greatly offended the holy God of the bible. The just punishment is death then hell. That's not Gods will. He suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His life's blood so He could legally dismiss your case. You must repent turn from sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your salvation.
mamainmancj 1 month ago
@mamainmancj That is just silly . Have you been listening to priests again ?
Go read some science.
ilikezappa 1 month ago
Blah Blah Blah. Another pasty white guy in a suit yappin' away and collectin' money.
MrBeautifulba1 1 month ago
MacArthur in other venues preaches a gospel that God can save people who do not believe in Christ. The very young, the profoundly retarded, the severely mentally ill..... Many Biblical and Christian theologians would also add those who have never heard the gospel. It is small step from what MacArthur teaches.
prairiemark 2 months ago
Actually that is what the Vatican two church not what the catholic church teaches
bf7045 2 months ago
The Post Vatican II Popes are not real Roman Catholics. They are wolfs in sheep clothing. Read Matthew Chapter 24>> The Post Vatican II Popes are pretending to be Catholic/Christians. For they can destory the church within.
vsaldanas 3 months ago
AMEN , TELL IT LIKE THE SCRIPTURES SAY BROTHER.
ROMANWABLE 3 months ago
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666re999 3 months ago
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Check out my page, I posted my first video. I touch on my conversation with Eric Hovind and give an intro to myself.
jocylean 3 months ago
Really??? REBT.
BalaguerTrujillo 3 months ago
MacArthur a false prophet? You're kidding right? John MacArthur is one of the last pastor/teachers that is actually preaching the Word of God!
ChimuChipmunk 3 months ago 19
@ChimuChipmunk, Why is he a false prophet? Can you give me examples through the Gospel why John MacArthur is a false teacher. please because I would really like to see why he's a false teacher.
Pweza773 3 months ago
@Pweza773 Did you even read my post?
ChimuChipmunk 3 months ago
@ChimuChipmunk, I did
Pweza773 3 months ago
Ivpitter vos amat.
impCaesarAvg 3 months ago
what happen to the devil is he no longer decieving the whole world ,most catholic do not believe in the devil or hell anymore thats why you are hearing these statements by catholic clergy. Satan is very powerful in the world today.the sign of the times folks.
rigoberto565 4 months ago
Carriebrb and gtepp031387....you are not gonna change each others mind so go read the book of James ( I think it talks about those who like to argue their point).
chad7206 4 months ago
MacArthur is the living embodiment of Matt: 7:15-22. He is skull-like as he babbles his false interpretations of Scripture through bad fitting dentures.
rickw1100 4 months ago
The good news is that Jesus waits for all, and he will be running out to meet you if you only turn around.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
"On the Lord's own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks; but first confess your sins, so that your sacrifice may be pure. However, no one quarreling with his brother may join your meeting until they are reconciled; your sacrifice must not be defiled. For here we have the saying of the Lord: 'In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice; for I am a mighty King, says the Lord; and my name spreads terror among the nations.'" ~ The Didache 90 A.D
gtepp031387 4 months ago
"Sin cannot tear you away from him [Christ] even though you commit adultery a hundred times a day and commit as many murders." ~ Martin Luther...Oh you Protestants you follower of this Satan worshipper how can any of you flea the comming condemnation!
gtepp031387 4 months ago
The church of Rome has primacy becaues it is the seat of Peter where he and Paul gave the keys to the Kingdom into the hands of Linus, who gave it to Clement, and so on and so forth.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
The word Pope means father as in "“Even if you should have countless guides to Christ, yet you do not have many fathers, for I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel”, 1st Corinthians 4:15...Yep thats in there too.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
Echarist(meaning to give thanks) is all over the bible, simple open your eyes read any one of the gosples in original Greek and you will see the word all over the place.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - your system hijacked the term (as they did catholic which means universal not Roman) it does mean to give thanks. Not the body of Jesus sacrificed "in an unbloody manner" and if you deny it isn't a sacrifice of Jesus in total body and divinity you are declared anathema?!
carriebrk 4 months ago
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@carriebrk "They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes." ~ St Ignatius of Antioch 80-107 A.D.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - I meant "is a sacrifice"
carriebrk 4 months ago
Mary and all who are true believers, once sanctified, become fully intirgrated into the divine body of Christ. They become one with and in Jesus with him where he is(John 17:20-26) so wether you like it or not when you pray to Jesus his body is there with him.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
By the way for anyone Purgatory(meaning purging fire) ois clearly in the bible "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:13-15
gtepp031387 4 months ago
Religion is on its way out. Conservatism is on its way out. Stop demanding that all social issues are handles ONE WAY ONLY.
Nobody is bothering YOUR church wedding. If YOUR church hates gay weddings, nobody will insist to have one there. YOU prefer man/woman marriage? GET ONE!
Is anyone infringing on YOUR right and benefits? NO! Stop insisting that ALL AMERICANS bow to YOUR kind of worship and social activities.
YOU do your thing. Let OTHERS do theirs! You break the golden Rule 24/7!
zerogullibility 4 months ago
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I guess these preachers haven't ventured over to the pro islamic sites on utube, because if you speak about the Bible, they in unison are taught it is corrupted and not God's word And Christ is denied as a true source of belief, because he didn't die on the cross, and God can't have a son Buddists, etc, believe in multiple deities and their full attention is there.So if the Catholics believe they can make it then so can Jezebel, moloch and baal worshippers, and the like. So why have a Judgement?
TheLionessjudah 4 months ago
I guess these preachers haven't ventured over to the pro islamic sites on utube, because if you speak about the Bible, they in unison are taught it is corrupted and not God's word And Christ is denied as a true source of belief, because he didn't die on the cross, and God can't have a son Buddists, etc, believe in multiple deities and their full attention is there.So if the Catholics believe they can make it then so can Jezebel, moloch and baal worshippers, and the like. So why have a Judgement?
TheLionessjudah 4 months ago
Buddha was saved and fully realized before Jesus walked the earth. He even prophesied that a fully perfect man, more perfect than himself would be born 500 years from his time. The great man would symbolize blood on his palms and a cross. "Through me" was an old saying in those times that meant through example. "master, how do we become more perfect" "Be more like me", Jesus said. "Love the Father with all of your heart, and your neighbor as yourself, that is the WHOLE LAW! THE WHOLE LAW!
WontBSilenced 4 months ago
SHAME ON YOU TRAITORS OF THE GOSPEL. FALSE TITHE GRABBING PREACHERS. YOU DESPISE LAW EXCEPT MAL. 3:10. IGNORANT PULPITERS. TITHE WAS FOR LEVI WHO HAD NO LAND IN ISRAEL. YOU INSIST? THEN 12 MEMBERS REQUIRE 1 PASTOR AND SO JOEL OSTEN SHOULD NOT RAKE HIS FILTY LUCRE BUT SHAEW IT TO 3000 CO PASTORS FOR 36,000 DECEIVED MEMBERS OF THAT CHURXH. YOU ARE TRAITORS OF TRUTH TOGETHER W GRAHAM, OPHRA, AND ALL WHO FOLLOW YOU. JUDAS WILL GO TO HEAVEN AHEAD OF YOU
joshua19421 5 months ago
the RCC is as just as false as islam... one false leader the pope is no more godly then muhammad was ...
MrLoudmouthspeaker 5 months ago 2
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@MrLoudmouthspeaker There can only be one curch that is the one that Jesus established, and the christianity of history is not protestant, that is for sure. Basicaly it is the Catholic or the Orthodox church, more study to see which one it is though....The Pope has always been head of the temperal church, who sits on the chair of St Peter, from the earliest Christians like St ignatius we see that the bishop of Rome "hath the presideny" of the church.
gtepp031387 5 months ago
catholic(dot)com
WayOfTheMaster454 5 months ago
LOL! John MacArthur truly is the embodiment of Matt. 7: 15.
rickw1100 5 months ago
The only way to get to the Father is through Jesus, but those who truly dont have the chance to accept christ who live good lives will have a chance once they die. Protestants twist the issue and twist catholic theology
superdubman999 5 months ago
@superdubman999 have a chance because they live good? HERESY!
HackerzInc 5 months ago
@HackerzInc I pray to God that was sarcasm.
superdubman999 5 months ago
@superdubman999 friend, good people don't go to heaven, the bible says there is none who does good, NONE! it also says the righteousness of man is filthy rags to God. That's why we need a saviour, Jesus! other religions don't have Him!
that's why we must preach the gospel to them rather than spreading this deception about getting to heaven without knowing Christ or by being good or living good lives (which is works) all this does is send them to hell quicker. thats a Catholic lie
(Romans 10:17)
HackerzInc 5 months ago
@HackerzInc What if you have never heard of God? What if you never had a real chance to accept him?
superdubman999 5 months ago
@superdubman999 Yes something the fundys will never understand if a person "through no fault of there own" never came to know GOD or hear his word they will be given a chance. To say otherwise is to confess that GOD is not just and fair, and this would require one to reject too many verses to count.
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@gtepp031387 No one deserves to be saved. The FAIR thing would be for all of us to go to hell for breaking God's rules (the 10 Commandments). God is merciful and kind. How can we say this about God if he is sending people to hell? Well he has provided his Son Jesus Christ who died on the cross for your sins, and the sins of the world. He has been inconceivably merciful to us by rescuing us from an entirely just punishment.
TheRocksteadily 5 months ago
@TheRocksteadily I would have to disagree with you that everyone desevres hell, I believe everyone deserves death, but not hell. We have all lost eternal life, through the rejection of grace commited by Adams original sin, this is just and fair as we never deserved life to begin with. However this original sin doesn't merit eternal torment, therfore unborn babies, infants, younge children, and even adults "through no fault of there own" have not come to know GOD or hear his word...cont..
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@TheRocksteadily ...cont...shall be given a chance, somehow someway to repent and enter into life. Or would you condem even unborn babies and infants?
gtepp031387 5 months ago
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gtepp031387 5 months ago
@TheRocksteadily By the way GOD doesn't send people to hell, people choose to follow the devil and the fallen angles, seperating themselves from GOD, thus sending themselves to hell. GOD "wills that all men be saved"
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@gtepp031387 If someone goes to hell it's not because they purposely dived into hell, it's because God through them there.
HackerzInc 5 months ago
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gtepp031387 5 months ago
@HackerzInc AMEN. catholics should come out of her. rev 17
douglasdolly 5 months ago
@superdubman999 You have itchy ears. False doctrine of devils has been instilled in your heart. Jesus' church does not look anything like the catholic church. Bare the cross dont wear the cross
douglasdolly 5 months ago
@douglasdolly What false doctrine?
superdubman999 5 months ago
@superdubman999 The Roman Catholic Church teaches that after death, everyone who has sinned will go to "purgatory", where they will face punishment for their sins. After this they are then allowed into the heavenly kingdom, once they have "PAID" for their sins. But with an indulgence, you can pay the church some money and you will receive an indulgence which will either reduce your time in "purgatory" or erase it all together. By the way, the Vatican was built on indulgences, and Martin exposed
douglasdolly 5 months ago
@douglasdolly "The Roman Catholic Church teaches that after death, everyone who has sinned will go to "purgatory"...
This is simply a lie. We believe that an elect few will go to purgatory(meaning purging fire) after death to PURIFY, not pay, for the stain of sin. Further more we believe that some will be given the crown, like Martys, without going thorugh any purification.
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@douglasdolly "But with an indulgence, you can pay the church some money and you will receive an indulgence"
There was a time yes when some corupted Catholics sold indulgences for money, but this was never an approved teaching and was wrong and has been corrected.
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@gtepp031387 - from CNA webpage.November 11, 1999
VATICAN (CWNews.com) -- While the Vatican prepares to receive an accepted flood of pilgrims during the Jubilee Year, the Pontifical Council for Migrants has announced that the indulgences offered to pilgrims will also be available to refugees, itinerants, and travelers who are unable to reach Rome.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 -
In a press release for the event, the shrine reported that Pope Benedict XVI granted a plenary indulgence to those who make a pilgrimage to see and pray before the relic of St. John Bosco, in accordance with the usual conditions of partaking in Confession, the Eucharist and prayers for the Holy Father’s intentions. (CNA DC shrine to host St. John Bosco relics) Sep 27, 2010
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk These indulgences are being given in the proper way, by increasing holyness, the church has every right to dol out indulgences in this way.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - Jesus called John the Baptist the greatest man that ever lived. Scripture states after he was executed that they buried him. Wonder why they didn't display him and grant indulgences to pilgrims.
carriebrk 4 months ago
Respond to this video... Acts 4:10-12 .....'Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
douglasdolly 5 months ago
Respond to this video... Members are taught to say the hail Mary and repeat it over and over again. Not only that, if you watch any Catholic TV, and see the nuns praying, you will see that they send the vast majority of their prayers to Mary, rather than Jesus. So what does Jesus Himself say about repetitive prayers?
Matthew 6:7 ...'But when ye pray, use NOT vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.'
douglasdolly 5 months ago
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@douglasdolly "Members are taught to say the hail Mary"
yep just as the angle said to Mary "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." Luke 1:28
The Hail mary is about as vain and repetitious as the our father, and we do not pray thinking we will be heard, we pray knowing we will be heard.
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@douglasdolly
'But when ye pray, use NOT vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.'
More selective cherry picking, otherwise the 4 beings must be disobeying Christ's command just as you say Catholics do. Rev 4:8 "The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: “ Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!”
182RG 5 months ago
Respond to this video... What false doctrine? Are you kidding me! Mary, Purgatory, Infallibility, Indulgences, Transubstination, Baptism, Prayers for the dead, Worship of cross images and relics, Holy water, Rosary beads, Preist celibacy, Tradition, Justification,Assumption of Mary, Trafficking the souls of men, salvation. These are just a few. Your pride and ego will defend these, and deny truth.
douglasdolly 5 months ago
I used to be part of the episcopal church.I know the arguments for the protestant side. And guess what? They are all Right! What it is, is a misunderstanding and perversion of what the Catholic Church really believes. You say Mary, but catholics do not worship mary. Praying by definition is spiritual communication, and throughout the bible people have asked others to pray for them, paul asks the churches, pray for me. If Jesus will listen to others prayers, how too will he listen to his mothers?
superdubman999 5 months ago
@superdubman999 -O Virgin most pure, wholly unspotted,O Mary,Mother of God,Queen of the universe,you are above all saints,the hope of the elect and the joy of all the blessed. It is you who have reconciled us with God,you are the only refuge of sinners and the safe harbor of those who are shipwrecked;you are the consolation of the world, the ransom of captives,the health of the weak, the joy of the afflicted and the salvation of all who have recourse to you,and we beg you to have pity on us.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@superdubman999 -In order that I may never be a slave of the devil through sin but may ever live with my heart humble and pure, I entrust myself wholly to you. I consecrate my heart to you forever. by St. Ephrem of Edessa A misunderstanding? Really? " With the act of consecration, you have put your life in my hands. Now it belongs to me; it is mine. I have taken possession of it, and now, bit by bit, I am transforming it according to my will." (excerpt Fr Gobbi message from Lady Fatima)
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk What are you trying to tell me? I don't understand your examples and i miss seeing how anyone has worshipped mary in any of them?
superdubman999 4 months ago
@superdubman999 - "according to my will", "I entrust myself wholly to you" "You have reconciled us with God" "you are the salvation of all who have recourse to you" - These are all attributes only the Lord possesses. Do you really not see? It's His will, Jesus said "Come to ME" Through Christ we are reconciled with God. Acts 4 :12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk Im dont dissagree i don't understand what your trying to tell me? Jesus is the only path to salvation. Yes yes i agree thats why im devoting my life to him as a preacher. And to spreading the good news. But not all are born where they hear the word and have the chance to understand it. The book of romans talks about how the gentiles who do not know christ will be judged by their actions as well, but when they die if they lived good (ghandi) they will have a chance to accept or reject
superdubman999 4 months ago
@carriebrk Jesus and Mary are one(John 17:20-26) she is part of his very body, the holy ark of the New covenate, how dare you try to seperate what GOD has joined together.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 -Luke 11:27,28 "a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!" But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!"
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk Yep blessed are all people who keep the word of the LORD. Yet all generations shall not call them blessed.
Can you forfill the command of GOD the holy spirit and say Mary is blessed?
By the way correct interpritation english interpritation from original Latin is "rather" not on the contrary..man who is interpriting your bible, and why does it differ from the original bible that was cannoized by the initre church at council?
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - why wouldn't all generations call them blessed? Actually the KJV also says "rather", that was the NASB. Webster defines "rather" as 1-with better reason, 2-preferably. 3-to the contrary. Jesus just said it's more preferable to have the blessing of hearing the Word of God and keeping it. Either case, a blessing from God, something to be greatful for, not because of anything we did,(or she did) Even faith is a gift from God.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk Both KJV and NASB where made by men in the last 500 years, they are heretical misinterprited and mistranslated fake bibles.
Websters dictonary also a man made book that was made in the last 100 years, this is your sorce of truth?..lol you are lousy apologist give it up.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk By the way idols are anything you put above GOD, not something carved or made, ask a Jew if "graven images" are forbiden..lol...you are so out of your league .
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@douglasdolly 1) purgatory biblical....1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@douglasdolly Infalliblity of the Pope "You are Kepha and on this Kepha I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall never overcome it". Therfore when Kepha(translated is Peter) speaks to and for the initre church he is incapable of leading it to the gates of hell.
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@douglasdolly Indulgences...tell me how was Mosses and Enock and others in heaven if not for the indulgences of Christ? Are you saying they made heaven without Christ?
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@douglasdolly Transubstination....Jesus takes bread and wine blesses it and says THIS IS my body THIS IS my blood" Do you think he was lying
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@gtepp031387 - what about when he said "I am the door" or "I am the light" what about "I am the vine"- what about when He told Peter to feed my sheep? It's a rediculous question. He is refered to as the "Lamb", the "Lion of Judah"-can you really not see how rediculous this is? When He agonized in the garden He asked the Father to "take this cup from me"-was He holding a cup He didn't want in His hand anymore? No He wasn't lying in any of these cases-it's a metaphore.
carriebrk 4 months ago
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@gtepp031387 - what about when he said "I am the door" or "I am the light" what about "I am the vine"- what about when He told Peter to feed my sheep? It's a rediculous question. He is refered to as the "Lamb", the "Lion of Judah"-can you really not see how rediculous this is? When He agonized in the garden He asked the Father to "take this cup from me"-was He holding a cup He didn't want in His hand anymore? No He wasn't lying in any of these cases-it's a metaphore.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@douglasdolly Your claiming Baptism is a false doctrin? I suppose you meant litteral baptism instead of your man made doctrin of symbolic baptism, tell me can symbolic things save?.... Becaues the scripture says baptism does save "Baptism that now saves you" 1 Peter 3:21 and "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved" Mark 16:16...humm so who is the one word for word contridicting scripture yep it's your man made doctrin.
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@douglasdolly Prayers for the dead...The book of Maccabees invokes prayer to the dead as a “excellent and noble (thing)”(2 Maccabees 12:43) stating that “if he had not expected the dead to rise again it would have bin useless and foolish to pray for them in death”(2 Maccabees 12:44), but Judas the servant of GOD did pray for the dead and what he did was said to be an “excellent and noble way”..Now I know you took this book out of the scripture the apostles used ans followed the man Matin Luther.
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@gtepp031387 the Hebrew Old Testament has never numbered these apocryphal writings. The apostles in their preaching mention many Old Testament events, but they never refer to any incidents or characters of the Apocrypha. The New Testament writers quote from practically all of the Old Testament books, but nowhere quote from the Apocrypha as "Scripture." The canon of the Old Testament accepted by Jesus and His apostles should be sufficient for the Christian today.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk The Septuagint was the holy book of the Jews from 300 B.C to 90 A.D., put together by the top 72 teachers of Jewish law, and remain to this day for the Jews in Africa and Ethiopea, who rejected the heretical council of Jamnia. The apostles also used the Septuagint and quoted from the specific compilation nearly 300 times while writting the NT. This compilation had all 7 books that where removed by the heretical Jews at Jamnia, which the early Christians opposed.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - where are these 300 quotes?
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk The near 300 quotes are every Greek usage of scripture that the apostles quoted from in the OT. The Talmud(which was not yet put together ) was written in Hebrew, the apostles spoke and quoted from a Greek source which was the Septuagint, the apoved compilation of the scripture since 300 B.C.. This would exclude the gosple of Matthew who wrote in Aramaic, who most probley used a varity or various scrolls.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk The apostles used the book of Macc in the NT, and in the writtings of the three apostolic fathers, Clement, Polycarp, and Ignatius all 7 books that Jamnia removed are used. These three where taught face to face and ordained face to face by the apostles. Why have you changed the apostolic scripture by removing the 7 books from the apostolic scripture, that is, the Septuagint?
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 " The apostles used the book of Macc in the NT" - for example where?
carriebrk 4 months ago
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@carriebrk "The apostles used the book of Macc in the NT" - for example where?"
Hebrews 11:35, which depicts women being tortured and not accepting “deliverance, in order to obtain a better resurrection”, is clearly talking about 2 Maccabees chapter 7, as no other place in the old testament can explain or covers this story.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - Macc has historical value and may include accounts of events that the Bible states. It is not a quote by any stretch of the imagination. That's rediculous. That's the best you got out of a claimed 300 "quotes" as you put it? What a joke.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk Where did I say it was quoted? I said they USED it not quoted from it..or can you find me this story in the OT smart one?....The apostles used the Septagint, this is a historical fact. They spoke and wrot Greek, which greek scroll do you suppose they quoted from smart one? Why do all there quotes match up with the holy Septagint and not with the heretical Talmud?
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk Why do the direct apostolic sucessores quote from the Septagint as well, if the apostles had a different book they where using, why do there direct students use the Septuagint?....Simply why have you changed the apostolic scripture?
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk "Sin cannot tear you away from him [Christ] even though you commit adultery a hundred times a day and commit as many murders." ~ Martin Luther, letter to Melanchton, Aug. 1, 1521
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk "Many sweat to reconcile St. Paul and St. James, but in vain. 'Faith justifies' and 'faith does not justify' contradict each other flatly. If any one can harmonize them I will give him my doctor's hood and let him call me a fool." ~ Martin Luther..yep great teacher huh?
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk "We should throw the Epistle of James out of this school [the University of Wittenberg]..."~Martin Luther..oh wait he didn't stop there either....
"The fact that [the biblical book]Hebrews is not an epistle of St. Paul, or of any other apostle, is proved by what it says in chapter two...." ~ Martin Luther..yep you prots have a long line of trying to remove books from the holy bible.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk As well the writters of the NT relied upon holy traditon, not scripture alone, they quote from several prophisies and other various sources as well as using Jewish tradition, several times in the NT. For instance...Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is oral tradition. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - Taught face to face by the apostles? So were the churches to whom the letters in Revelation were written to, Only two got no condemnations. The Corinthians were taught directly by Paul and his letters address "false teachers", and error in doctrine. To the Galatians he writes "I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel. Closer proximity doesn't mean anything.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk John himself, who wrote Revelations personaly taught Ignatius and ordained Polycarp to the office of bishop. Are you saying he made a mistake with his choice in who he, himself, put over the churches?
John bound authority into Polycarp, and gave his teachings to Ignatius. Both Ignatius and Polycarp gave there lives for the faith, I will not hear a word spoken against them!
Clement the holy spirit personally says has his name in the book of life, and orders you to help and accept!
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk Their synagogues ... should be set on fire."
"Their homes should be broken down and destroyed. They ought to be put under one roof or in a stable, like Gypsies, in order that they may realize that they ... are ... but miserable captives."
"They should be deprived of their prayerbooks and Talmuds."
"Their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach any more." ~ Martin Luther...yep great teacher huh?..you follow this guy sick sick people.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk "Heretics are not to be disputed with, but to be condemned unheard, and whilst they perish by fire, the faithful ought to pursue the evil to its source, and bathe their heads in the blood of the Catholic bishops, and of the Pope, who is the devil in disguise." ~ Martin Luther, the founder of the heretical sect of protestantism, I challendge you to find anything close to this from the Pope....I'll be waiting...
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - I don't hold any man's writing equal to Scripture, you do. The fact that you can find an emotional outburst by someone means nothing. It doesn't make unbiblical practice any more biblical. I could list writings of historians, Foxe's book of Martyr's for one. You would call everything a lie that's not listed on the catholic encyclopedia page.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk The bible is the cannon of the Catholic church, it is the prime doctrin of the church, and the formost authoritative doctrin the church has, but to say it is the only inspired work, and the only authority, is not only silly but a word for word contridiction of the holy word. "hold fast to the traditions...wether by word of mouth(what the church calls holy tradition) or be letter of ours(holy scripture)...There is the fact that scripture itself is holy tradition as well.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 Josephus, expressly limited the Hebrew canon to twenty-two books, which are the exact equivalent of the thirty-nine books of our Old Testament. Josephus knew of other Jewish writings down to his time, but he did not regard them as having equal authority with the canonical works. So the Apocrypha were never received by the Jews as God-given Scripture. there is no evidence that these books were ever accepted by any Jewish community, either in or outside of the land of Palestine.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@douglasdolly Worship of cross and relics....Sry but "Worship is for GOD alone" ~ Infallible dogma from the head of the temperal church, that is, the Pope.
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@gtepp031387 - what is your definition of worship? Merriam-webster definition of worship: "Reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also: an act of expressing such reverence; a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual; extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem."
Show one Biblical example where Jesus or the apostles condoned any such behavior. When Cornelius fell at Peter's feet he said "stand up; I myself am also a man" Acts 10:26
carriebrk 4 months ago
@douglasdolly Holy water?...Guess they didn't use water in your baptism eh?
Rosary beads and Priest celibacy are practises not doctrins. But each is biblical. For instance the Rosary is 99.9 % scripture, and the bible says that "there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it." Matthew 19:12
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@douglasdolly Tradition? "Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle." 2 Thessalonians 2:15
Justification? "See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone" James 2:24
Assumtion of Mary Psalm 132:8 - "Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the Ark (Mary) of thy might." Both Jesus and Mary were taken up to their eternal resting place in heaven.
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@gtepp031387 You pick a verse to justify your false doctrine? LOL Traditions ! It doesnt mean you make new ones! He is talking about the traditions at that time. Not traditions that the Roman Catholic church invented 300 years later. You have no bible knowledge and that is evident.
douglasdolly 5 months ago
@douglasdolly
You do realize tradition and oral instruction were the only methods of teaching Christianity for many centuries after Christ's death. Do some research on the compilation of the bible, and you'll appreciate the value of tradition and oral instruction and the Catholic Church's work in bringing the bible to you.
Do you think all Christians had access to entire bible prior to the 15th century (printing press invention)?
182RG 5 months ago
@182RG - Col 4:16- "Now when this epistle is read among you, see that it is read also in the church of the Laodiceans, and that you likewise read the epistle from Laodicea." Rev 1:19 "Write the things which you have seen..." 2 Pet 3:15 "..brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles,...twist to their own destruction, as they do also the REST of the Scriptures" They copied and shared it from the beginning, some letters quote others too.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@182RG - the Jews preserved Scripture for centuries without a printing press. They used scribes-Mark was in a sense Peter's scribe, that's why the gospel according to Mark has apostolic authority. Mark was Barnabas's cousin.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk
>>>the Jews preserved Scripture for centuries without a printing press. They used scribes
That's true, but much of their religion was not written - the Oral Torah. And the Church also used scribes before the printing press (monks) - Even though the majority of the early gentile Christians couldn't read a single word.
182RG 4 months ago
@182RG - only the Rabbis gave ideological significance to the fact that they transmitted their tradition orally. Jesus himself condemned it "teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." Matt 15:6-9 ; Mark 7:6-9. In John 5:10 the Jews yelled at the healed crippled man for picking up his bed and walking on the Sabbath saying it was unlawful, they rebuked the apostles for picking grain heads on the sabbath saying it was unlawful. Refering to the oral traditions you speak of.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@182RG -also considder-Jesus and the apostles quoted Scripture very often "thus fulfilling the Scripture" "for as it is written" etc. "The Law and the Prophets" were how they described the OT. The first 5 books from Moses, the law, and the rest the prophets. They never reiterated, or refered to any oral "man-made" tradition except to condemn it. Catholic means "universal"-the Roman church gained authority because of Constantine and politicized Christianity.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk
>> They never reiterated, or refered to any oral "man-made" tradition except to condemn it
Not true:
Matt 2: "He shall be called a Nazarene." Can you show me this mentioned in scripture?
1 Cor 10:"All drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ" Referring to the Israelites journey. Where is this rock that followed them mentioned in OT?
You claim bible ownership capital offense - Source?
182RG 4 months ago
@182RG - I stand corrected on both points. However, neither case can be considdered a "law" or a "doctrine", and would not justify the adding of the same under pretense of "well it's tradition". There is much quoting of "church fathers" to justify the addition of doctrine's in the Roman system,but they are not "inspired", and often didn't agree with each other. Augustine is highly quoted for his introduction of infant baptism, it was already the 300's, yet is still claimed a "tradition".
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk "Augustine is highly quoted for his introduction of infant baptism, it was already the 300's"
Actually this was decided long before Augustine(though Augustine imput is alway a good thing).
"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men" ~ St Irenaeus around 150 A.D.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk ..cont..."Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" ~ St Hippolytus (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).
and then there was a synodical(offical authoritative teaching on it)..."As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth,...cont
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk ..cont... In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" ~ St Cyprians' documents on the council of Carthrage 257 A.D.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - as I said above the church fathers aren't Scripture. So do you then agree with the Pope's stance that it isn't necessary to believe in Jesus Christ? Or do you beleive Jesus' words recorded in Scripture "Nobody comes to the Father except by me"? Do you believe "What God has joined together let no man put assunder" or do you believe a few bucks and questionaire's can nullify a marriage in the sight of God? And they did forbid the BIble, do some research.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk 3) If a marriage is unlawful it can be nullified yes, even Jesus states thus, and the church investigates these claims to see if they are true.
4) We never talked about forbiding the bible..you must be addressing this comment at someone else?....If you like we can talk about all the false bibles, with missing and mistranslated content, that where being made in the 1500s and the churches action on this if you like though...?
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - No, actually he allowed "divorce" for sexual immorality. There is only one reason-and there are a miriad of annulments granted for other reasons. Jude said "I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." And Paul said "But even if we, or an agenl from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk "No, actually he allowed "divorce" for sexual immorality."
Nope actually he said "except it be unlawful, there are several things in Jewish tradition that made a marrige unlawful sexual immorality is one yes but there are others.
The faith delivered from the saints..humm as you have no connection to the Saints and your church was formed in the 1500s by Martin Luther, I find this quiet silly to be kind.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - No connection to the saints? According to Paul, and Jude, and others. Saints are beleivers. The Jews were guilty of the same elitest attitude. "We are the children of Abraham" Jesus calls all sinners to repentence, and bids us "come to Me all ye who are weak and heavy laden and I will give you rest" Paul chastised those who said "I am of Apollos, I am of Paul" there is only one head of the church, which is Jesus Christ. Matt 5:31,32 Jesus states "except sexual immorality"
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk In all your giberish you did not answere any of my questions..you just bounced around like a kangaroo..what are you trying to imply with all your bouncing?
As far as protestant Saints there are none. To be a saint you must have a true and full belife in Jesus, and one can not say they believe in Jesus and not follow his teachings, which is what all protestants do. For instance all protestants teach that the eucharist is not the body of Christ yet Jesus says "This IS my body"..cont...
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk ..."this IS my blood"...This teaching of symbolic eucharist is in direct contridiction to the holy word, so all protestants are immediatly disqualified from being saints, on the grounds of unorthodox teaching. There are many more unorthodox word for word contriditions that the protestant teach such as faith alone, though the bible says "NOT by faith alone" James 2:24
gtepp031387 4 months ago
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gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk And yes you have zero conection to the saints, or please find me one christian before the 1500s that believed in symbolic eucharist, symbolic baptism, sola fide, sola scriptura, none sucession of the apostles, none purging fire, none eternal punishment,... really find me protestantism before the 1500s. Lets face facts your faith was invented in the mind of Martin Luther, my faith has been believed from the time of the apostles, throughout all ages, all the way up to today.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - The Jews are God's chosen people. Was every Jew in the OT saved because he belonged to the right denomination? There are stories of the Albegencies, the Hussites, the Paulitians. Not to mention the bickerings over doctrine within the Roman heirarchy. The Roman church gained political authority and punished anyone who didn't adhere to their teachings, and burned their writings. It doesn't mean they weren't there. Jan Hus was burned at the stake for denying transubstantiation.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk The Catholic church has never ordered anyone burned alive, please give one authoritative teaching(letter from the Pope or cannon of a council) that says to burn anyone alive or stop posting propganda. The only church leaders that ordered others burned at the stake are the founders of your heretical sect, that is, Martin Luther, and John Calvin.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - regardless of your acceptance of Roman revisionist history-your point was that my religion was "invented by Luthor" and nobody else thought that way and you are incorrect. Even the "catholic encyclopedia" acknowledges that Wycliffe and Hus taught against the doctrine of transubstantiation, and popery. You may agree that the teaching is heretical, but your assertion that Biblical authority was a new idea with Luthor is false.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk Luther is the main founder of protestantism, this is a historical fact. Protestantism(Captola P the religion) did not exist before Luther, though he of course was not the first to protest. Luther invented the doctrin of sola scriptura, which no one had ever heard of before. Luther invented the doctrin of sola fide which no one had ever heard of before. Simple and plain these are the two formost doctrins that the 44,000 and counting protestant denominations have.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - He didn't invent the doctrine of sola scriptura, he merely gave it a title. Just like the Catholics didn't invent the doctrine of the "trinity" they merely gave it a title. Christ is the founder of Christianity. And is the head of the church. He is the cornerstone. That's all that matters.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk The trinity is something that has always been believed, it was not invented.
sola scripture is an invented word for word contridiction of the holy bible, as well as an afront to the teaching method of the apostles and all the Saints.
Yep Christ is the head of the church, who left Peter to tend and feed the initire flock in his temperal place, giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven and naming him the rock on which the church would be built.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - Hus was before Luther, so was Wycliffe. Look up the history of "sacraments"-now your declared "anathema" if you don't belelve their are 7, at one time there was 12-so were those people all damned? Early critics of icons included Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Minucius Felix , Lactancius. and Eusebius (pictures and statues of Christ), not until the Second Council of Nicaea in 787 was the veneration of icons affirmed. The church fathers are quoted selectively.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk The church has never authoritativly taught 12 sacrements, I don't know who gave you this info but it is bull plain and simple.
Tertullian is not a father, he is a heritic, that was excommunicated by all 5 holy sees.
Please post chapter verse and letter of Clement of Alexandria.
Lactancius is also not a father, though not a heritic, again chapter verse and letter.
There is no authentic writting from Minucius, and he was also not a father and followed the herisy of Tertullian.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk Eusebius is not a father, as he doesn't have sanctification, I repect his work though so again chapter verse and letter.
The holy icons have always been used, the diciple and gosple writter Luke painted several, some even survive today. The Jews use holy images as well, GOD ordere them put onto his holy ark, and in his holy temple, where the Jews venerated and bowed before these images, though not in worship, even Jesus bowed and venerated these images.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@carriebrk The definition of Worship for GOD is not websters modern definition. We can see GOD was fine with veneration, bowing, respect, and honor being given to the holy ones. If you wish I can go through all the times GOD allowed veneration to be given to the holy ones.
The one who bowed before Peter did so in worship not in respect and honor as the bible clearly says. Bowing in respect and honor is approved in to many passages to count.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387- Paul "confronted Peter to his face" Gal 2:11 blaming him for the "heresy" he'd just corrected (that's why he said "even if we" as I just quoted. It would seem then, that the "truth" of the gospel would supercede any fallable person. And wouldn't Jude's statement "once for all" give one the impression there wouldn't be addendums? What about John's quote in Rev. about not adding or taking away anything. Saints are believers-not specially "venerated" people.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk Paul actually confronted Cephas, who shared the same name as the apostles Peter, but who was one of the 70 diciples. Johns statment was for the book of Rev itself, the bible was not even compiled at the time he wrote this book. The Saints are one with and in Jesus part of his holy body, I am sorry you think respect and honor are not do to the holy body of Christ.
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - what is your basis for that assumption with Peter. Of course the saints are one with and in Jesus. It's a large jump to considder anything they write equal with scripture. When Peter came in Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I myself am also a man" Most of the benedictions in the epistles state "to God, alone wise, be the glory through Jesus Christ forever." for an example.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk Sry part 1 and 2 appear to be missing huh?...well lets see If I can remeber what I posted, that i apparently didn't post...
1) We believe that someone "through no fault of there ownb" who has not come to know Jesus can be saved yes...or do you condemm infants and children who die?
2) We believe also that the Saints and Jesus are one, and that they are part of his very body with him where he is according to John 17:20-26...and as you stated what GOD has joined together....
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - he wasn't refering to infants and children, he was refering to other religions who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ. I don't condemn anybody, but believe the words of Jesus who said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not beleieved in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18. Isn't that the purpose for the great commission? The cousil of Trent declared "anathema" anyone not of the Roman church.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk "he wasn't refering to infants and children"...humm where does it state this?...I call this burger King theology made the way you want it? sillyness...
Tell me how does one believe in the NAME is it just believeing in the letters, or the meaning that counts? Say if one doesn't confess the letters but confesses the meaning is he saved?..you do know right the name Jesus is incorrect from the original translation?
gtepp031387 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - I was refering to the Pope-his speach was not refering to infants and children. If I had been refering to the Lord I'd have capitalized "he". John states "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the WOrd became flesh and dwelt among us..." Jesus fulfilled God's whole plan of salvation as revealed in His Word. Believing in Jesus is knowing, I have no worthyness in myself, but I can humbly ask for His forgiveness, He payed my debt.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 - John 1:12 " But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name; who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." Romans 5:1 "Therefore, having been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God." Humbling reality.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@182RG - "source"-look up anything on the mideavel period, or the "reformation" period. John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, William Tyndale, Myles Coverdale, Jon Hus... It was all about making the Bible available to people in their own language.
carriebrk 4 months ago
@carriebrk
It's simply not true the church made "it (bible ownership) unlawful by penalty of death" This lie orginated in the book "Roman Catholicism" by Loraine Boettner- a rabid antiCatholic. It has since been quoted by other authors and taken as fact by numerous antiCatholics.
There were some sects that, similar to today's JWs, retranslated the bible to conform to their heretical theologies. These books were banned, and destroyed if found by the church.
182RG 4 months ago
@182RG - Further-the Roman church in it's quest for power and dominance, are guilty of attempting to hoard and control Scripture-they didn't want to "give" it as you say, to anybody. They used it to control and manipulate the masses eventually making it unlawful by penalty of death to have any. People who couldn't read were taught by preachers, who preached the word. What could possibly be the use of observing rituals in a language nobody knew? (Latin)
carriebrk 4 months ago
@gtepp031387 Thou, and the ark of thy strength - The ark, the symbol of the divine power, as if the power of God resided there, or as if the Almighty had his abode there. Perhaps the language was derived from the fact that the ark, in the wars of the Hebrews against their foes, was a symbol of the divine presence and protection - that by which the divine power was put forth. You dont have a clue
douglasdolly 5 months ago
@douglasdolly The new Ark was Mary as clearly discribed by John In Rev. The place where GOD made his abode(May the new Ark)
gtepp031387 5 months ago
Respond to this video... Mary is not the Ark, goofy catholics yuor funny
douglasdolly 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@douglasdolly "Mary is not the Ark, goofy catholics yuor funny"
Intresting that all the early christians believe she was, as well as John starts to decribe the ark then stops to talk about a mysterious woman, I think I'll stick with them thank you.
gtepp031387 5 months ago
“At that time, the Savior coming from the Virgin, the Ark, brought forth His own Body into the world from that Ark, which was gilded with pure gold within by the Word, and without by the Holy Ghost;" ~St. Hippolytus 170 - 236
gtepp031387 5 months ago
"The ark is verily the holy Virgin, gilded within and without, who received the treasure of universal sanctification. Arise, O Lord, from the Father’s bosom, to raise up again the ruined race of our first parent” ~St. Gregory Thaumaturgus 213-270
gtepp031387 5 months ago
@douglasdolly
>>>Mary is not the Ark"
Have you read Luke 1? Do you not see the types (prefigurements) of Mary housing the New Covenant (baby Jesus) just as the old Ark housed the Old Covenant as Moses new it that Luke is pointing out - Exodus and 1&2 Samuel, Deut 10, Heb 9 (the word of God-ten commandments vs the Word incarnate/the manna vs the Bread of Life)
182RG 5 months ago