Thank God I was raised in Jamaica. They don't shove this evoution crap in our face here. Sure we study professor leaky digging up bones in Africa here but we keep to a belief in God and we probably will die that way. Canadian born, living in Jamaica since 1 year old. Developed countries keep your crap. Give me the simple brainwashed belief. We are too smart for our own good
And you said something about "Evovling means that you have determined the end". That's totally wrong. Evolution, in a biological context, just means change in the allelic frequency of a gene pool. The change is not towards some pre determined step. It's just change, and it could be towards any direction. Evolution is a blind process, so the existence of an end goal is just paradoxical.
Also the phrase "more evolved" has no meaning at all in any context.
Evolution as a theory is not just being applied as a biological understanding of life but is also being extended to describe sociological and ultimatley political differences of humanity,
I agree, evolution is a process that takes place in every field, therefore it's common sense to apply the basics of evolutionary theory to these fields. HOWEVER, this has no relevance to the biological theory. Evolution as a sociological tool, can be misused (See Hitler) but this in no way undermines how humans or any other organisms evolved from a common ancestor.
It's pretty stupid to reject the actual biological theory due its misuse in other fields.
"an extemsion of evolution politically that will provide massive leverage to the scientific class. "
So implementing the idea that a given system will change due to outside influences, will somehow lead to the "scientific class" gaining power? Bullshit.
This is an idea. Ideas can be used by anyone, for any means. Blaming the idea for its misuse by people is asinine.
I already explained that in the earlier post. The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection has to do with the change in the allelic frequency of a gene pool over time.
The IDEA that outside influence/changes in the general environment leads to change in an system, can be applied to any field, whether it is political, economical, social etc. Applying this IDEA, has absolutely no relevance to the the fact that the allelic frequency of a gene pool will, and does, change.
Its a law of nature that you cant observe anything without affecting the thing you observe.
There is a move to politicise the theory of evolution this has ramifications,this is not "Bullshit" as you so colourfuly put it.
The question is to what extent can the theory be expanded before the theory itself becomes an actor, because from that point on all sociological and political conclusions based on theory of evolution becomes opinion.
Again, you're missing the point. If we built an ideology from Germ Theory, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the germs behave. The Theory of Evolution is sound, and it can't be refuted by idiots who use its rudimentary framework, for a field that it was not intended for. Just because Hitler used eugenics, it does not mean whales did not evolve from tetrapods; It has absolutely NOTHING do with the actual theory.
I am interested in how theories can be abused or misrepresented and its anthropological effects, and i am watching some, like Dawkins from within the anti creationist evolutionary movement explaining politics and consiousness in terms of gene movment. So it does appear to be politicised by the very scientist that champion the theory.
It appears that something is forcing this scientific theory into a dialectic with religion with the new age as the synthesis. ie Spiritual evolution
"So it does appear to be politicised by the very scientist that champion the theory."
True, but this still doesn't invalidate any claims made by it.
Evolution is being attacked by many dogmatic religious organizations, and therefore many scientist who work with evolutionary principles are retaliating, and its almost impossible to do this without publicizing it a bit. Most lay-people wouldn't understand endogenous retroviruses, pseudogenes etc , so its easier to present it in a simpler way.
"something is forcing this scientific theory into a dialectic with religion with the new age as the synthesis."
This something is the dishonest, ignorant campaign by creationists, who are too dogmatic to accept reality. Evolution is merely being defended from these religious numskulls, who unfortunately have a lot of leverage in the political arena. People are being made to choose between their faith and evolution,which makes them assume evolution is a position of faith too. Which its not.
"The question is to what extent can the theory be expanded before the theory itself becomes an actor"
The THEORY expands only due to observation of natural phenomenon, not due to politics. However much someone use an evolutionary model for socio-economic/political issues, it doesn't "expand" the actual theory. The theory applies ONLY to biology, but some of the ideas can be extrapolated for other uses.
To give you a simple analogy, we can observe birds and other avian animals, to give us a basic idea of aerodynamics, and other aspects of aeronautical engineering. If we implement these ideas into planes, and somehow they encounter problems and crash land, killing hundreds of people, would you blame the animals for the deaths of these people? Would you say that since the plane could not fly, that these animals surely could not fly either?
Its the word evolution within the context of a meme that i am trying to understand. Possibly i havent explained this well enough. Evolution stops being thought of as the motion of nature unfolding but is instead thought of as somthing with an end goal towards which nature is moving within which some are more evolved. This meme is being pushed by some within the scientific community.
"Proof" for primate to human evolution- Endogenous Retroviruses Human Chromosome # 2 GULO pseudogene Transitional Forms- Homo Habilis Australopithecus Aferensis Homo Erectus Homo Rudolfensis etc. I'm not telling you to believe in evolution, but you really shouldn't make statements such as "There is no proof for evolution!" without actually doing some research. And you seem to have mixed up the theory of evolution with some other ridiculous belief system, type thing.
From what I have learned, Evolution and Darwinism are two different things, He uses a part of evolution . To just look at the universe and ourselves you'll find the answers. If they're talking about making this slave triphibian with gills that means we had to have been fish at one point because thats a recessive gene you need to do that. The study of rocks show that every species that has come into being at a place where a preexisting species lived and died.
The problem scientists are having is how these changes are brought about. And that is what Darwin tried doing. But I would'nt t wallow everything Darwin is saying, he is omitting certain facts. I do think that a lot of the animals if not all are engineered too. Look at the Gnu for example, its like three different animals in one. I think Gnu might be connected with Cro-maGNOn somehow
Thank God I was raised in Jamaica. They don't shove this evoution crap in our face here. Sure we study professor leaky digging up bones in Africa here but we keep to a belief in God and we probably will die that way. Canadian born, living in Jamaica since 1 year old. Developed countries keep your crap. Give me the simple brainwashed belief. We are too smart for our own good
masterix6 2 years ago
And you said something about "Evovling means that you have determined the end". That's totally wrong. Evolution, in a biological context, just means change in the allelic frequency of a gene pool. The change is not towards some pre determined step. It's just change, and it could be towards any direction. Evolution is a blind process, so the existence of an end goal is just paradoxical.
Also the phrase "more evolved" has no meaning at all in any context.
You've misunderstood evolution vastly.
Havokreator 2 years ago
Evolution as a theory is not just being applied as a biological understanding of life but is also being extended to describe sociological and ultimatley political differences of humanity,
NeddLudd1811 2 years ago
I agree, evolution is a process that takes place in every field, therefore it's common sense to apply the basics of evolutionary theory to these fields. HOWEVER, this has no relevance to the biological theory. Evolution as a sociological tool, can be misused (See Hitler) but this in no way undermines how humans or any other organisms evolved from a common ancestor.
It's pretty stupid to reject the actual biological theory due its misuse in other fields.
Havokreator 2 years ago
"evolution is a process that takes place in every field"
Vs
"this has no relevance to the biological theory"
What exactly is evolution a theory of then? Because it looks like some kind of theory of everything.
NeddLudd1811 2 years ago
this is the issue, an extemsion of evolution politically that will provide massive leverage to the scientific class.
NeddLudd1811 2 years ago
"an extemsion of evolution politically that will provide massive leverage to the scientific class. "
So implementing the idea that a given system will change due to outside influences, will somehow lead to the "scientific class" gaining power? Bullshit.
This is an idea. Ideas can be used by anyone, for any means. Blaming the idea for its misuse by people is asinine.
Havokreator 2 years ago
I already explained that in the earlier post. The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection has to do with the change in the allelic frequency of a gene pool over time.
The IDEA that outside influence/changes in the general environment leads to change in an system, can be applied to any field, whether it is political, economical, social etc. Applying this IDEA, has absolutely no relevance to the the fact that the allelic frequency of a gene pool will, and does, change.
Havokreator 2 years ago
Its a law of nature that you cant observe anything without affecting the thing you observe.
There is a move to politicise the theory of evolution this has ramifications,this is not "Bullshit" as you so colourfuly put it.
The question is to what extent can the theory be expanded before the theory itself becomes an actor, because from that point on all sociological and political conclusions based on theory of evolution becomes opinion.
Beyond the biological evolution is a meme
NeddLudd1811 2 years ago
Again, you're missing the point. If we built an ideology from Germ Theory, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the germs behave. The Theory of Evolution is sound, and it can't be refuted by idiots who use its rudimentary framework, for a field that it was not intended for. Just because Hitler used eugenics, it does not mean whales did not evolve from tetrapods; It has absolutely NOTHING do with the actual theory.
How are you not getting this simple concept?
Havokreator 2 years ago
I am interested in how theories can be abused or misrepresented and its anthropological effects, and i am watching some, like Dawkins from within the anti creationist evolutionary movement explaining politics and consiousness in terms of gene movment. So it does appear to be politicised by the very scientist that champion the theory.
It appears that something is forcing this scientific theory into a dialectic with religion with the new age as the synthesis. ie Spiritual evolution
NeddLudd1811 2 years ago
Obviously this has not got anything todo with the original scientific theory of evolution
NeddLudd1811 2 years ago
"So it does appear to be politicised by the very scientist that champion the theory."
True, but this still doesn't invalidate any claims made by it.
Evolution is being attacked by many dogmatic religious organizations, and therefore many scientist who work with evolutionary principles are retaliating, and its almost impossible to do this without publicizing it a bit. Most lay-people wouldn't understand endogenous retroviruses, pseudogenes etc , so its easier to present it in a simpler way.
Havokreator 2 years ago
"something is forcing this scientific theory into a dialectic with religion with the new age as the synthesis."
This something is the dishonest, ignorant campaign by creationists, who are too dogmatic to accept reality. Evolution is merely being defended from these religious numskulls, who unfortunately have a lot of leverage in the political arena. People are being made to choose between their faith and evolution,which makes them assume evolution is a position of faith too. Which its not.
Havokreator 2 years ago
"The question is to what extent can the theory be expanded before the theory itself becomes an actor"
The THEORY expands only due to observation of natural phenomenon, not due to politics. However much someone use an evolutionary model for socio-economic/political issues, it doesn't "expand" the actual theory. The theory applies ONLY to biology, but some of the ideas can be extrapolated for other uses.
Havokreator 2 years ago
To give you a simple analogy, we can observe birds and other avian animals, to give us a basic idea of aerodynamics, and other aspects of aeronautical engineering. If we implement these ideas into planes, and somehow they encounter problems and crash land, killing hundreds of people, would you blame the animals for the deaths of these people? Would you say that since the plane could not fly, that these animals surely could not fly either?
It's the same concept here.
Havokreator 2 years ago
Its the word evolution within the context of a meme that i am trying to understand. Possibly i havent explained this well enough. Evolution stops being thought of as the motion of nature unfolding but is instead thought of as somthing with an end goal towards which nature is moving within which some are more evolved. This meme is being pushed by some within the scientific community.
NeddLudd1811 2 years ago
"thought of as somthing with an end goal towards which nature is moving within which some are more evolved. "
I've never heard of this in a scientific context, but if you have any examples of this, I'd be really interested to see them.
Havokreator 2 years ago
Havokreator 2 years ago
From what I have learned, Evolution and Darwinism are two different things, He uses a part of evolution . To just look at the universe and ourselves you'll find the answers. If they're talking about making this slave triphibian with gills that means we had to have been fish at one point because thats a recessive gene you need to do that. The study of rocks show that every species that has come into being at a place where a preexisting species lived and died.
gwap360 2 years ago
The problem scientists are having is how these changes are brought about. And that is what Darwin tried doing. But I would'nt t wallow everything Darwin is saying, he is omitting certain facts. I do think that a lot of the animals if not all are engineered too. Look at the Gnu for example, its like three different animals in one. I think Gnu might be connected with Cro-maGNOn somehow
gwap360 2 years ago
yeah i wouldnt get too hung up on it, survival of the fittest can mean almost anything you want it to mean , "fittest" isnt very specific to me.
ThEpErsOnLiGHts 2 years ago
I agree with you that evolution is more like adaptation, it in no way explains the origin of species.
Evolution is occurring though IMO.
However just not in the way science wants us to believe, for religious purposes
What evolution serves in reality is death not life
That's the fundamental premise that unites both science and religion, they offer definitions for life that people can believe
The truth is we can't define life because we don't have an example of it only a presumption
early2it 2 years ago
Peace and Love!
CanadianBeaver 2 years ago