Pose running technique training (before and after)

[walatalalaw]

I have a question: with all this natural running trend going on, and seeing you speak a lot about absorbing impact with your joints, etc., how come you run heel-toe?

I'm not saying I'm an expert, but the logic seems to be there: you use the natural spring mechanism built in your foot for running to absorb more impact. The impact is absorbed by your muscles and not by your joint cartilage, because none of your joints are straight. What do you think? The first humans didn't have nike running shoes

[Thjeko]

@walatalalaw I totally agree with all what you say. I'm a fan of natural running (learned via posemethod) and I prefer to see athletes land forefoot first with (if speed isn't too high) a drop of the heel afterward. This is what we aim for. The runner in the vid (at least IMO) improved on his landing pretty well. Much closer under the body with significantly less impact on the heel. See? There is still room for further improvement though and there will always be (-;.

[Thjeko]

@babbfamilyidaho Hi there, I guess I said "front shin MUSCLES", not bone. Perhaps "anterior shin muscles" would have been more correct.

Furthermore; English is not my native language, thus spelling errors (or incorrect translations from my own Dutch language) may occur. I don't try to sound (or be) scientific. I rather explain things in a way that is understandable for the majority of people.

[ZidaneSteiner]

Your body naturally moves to a forefoot strike when you run faster. Thats why elite runners run that way. But when you run slow, the natural tendency is to heel strike, and when you walk, you heel strike. This is natural... but when you try to forefoot strike at a slow speed, or heel strike at a fast pace, thats when you run into problems because you are forcibly changing your natural human biomechanics.

[Thjeko]

@ZidaneSteiner I respect your opinion but I disagree. Hope you can live with that. Check the vid of "Usain Bolt easy running" (also on my channel). It is true that our MODERN, natural running style (especially when running slow) is different than the running style of our ancestors (or even grandparents). The heavy, cushioned, motion control shoes that the shoe industry is selling us as running shoes, allow us to run in some kind of "walking mode" (heel striking) way.

[erase71]

I love running and did strength training exercises for 2 months. repeated again for 2 more months but on a sparring and very irregular basis only. now, i think i have glutes pain and my left knee is aching after less than 7km runs. i feel that my left leg is heavier even when just walking. can i send my vid over so you can me too? thanks in advance!

[Thjeko]

@erase71 That's okay, but be patient with my comments. Please shoot one with good quality (30fps), otherwise it will be hard to do good analyses. Use the vid of my clients as example.

[1969jmac]

You know there is SOOO Much info out there about running. Chi, pose, newton, barefoot etc..all these methods seem to be very similar with slight variances. The problem with them is that they are hard to use, unless you are already a good runner. It is very hard to use these methods slowly. Everytime I try either of these methods I have to run fast to execute the form properly. I can't keep that up long as im not in great running shape. These are not good for slow training only for strong runners

[Thjeko]

@1969jmac In the learning process I also experienced more difficulty running slow with good running skills than fast. This might come from the fact that we tend to lean too much in a false attempt to search for some kind of free falling sensation. This is often just too much for the current skills and timing of pulling the foot to keep up with with the body. The angle of lean is very subtle and with better perception of good posture you'll be able to fine tune this. You can do this too ;-).

[Thjeko]

@1969jmac There are many differences between pose- and Chi (etc.) running. Chi running for example teaches midfoot landing (front- and backside of foot evenly weighted). Pose wants us to weight (touch down) over the forefoot to be able to optimize the use of lowerleg- and foot muscles (i.e. calves, achillis, plantar fascia) to dampen the impact from landing together with optimal loading of elastic tissues. Check vid and description: Chirunning (Danny Dreyer) on this YT channel for more details.

[talentlysounds]

ARM MOVEMENT NOT PRETTY WELL?!

[runwithkyrstin2002]

just wondering how go correct my form, check my running videos out on my channel, any help would be great. thanks

[cicirunner]

I'm kind of injury prone, and I suspect that my bad form is the culprit. I notice that when the runner had good form, he brought his legs higher back sort of like a butt kick drill. Even though I can see the benefit of this form, I don't know how to implement it. When I look at it, the form seems like it would make you run slower. When I try it on my own, I feel so darn slow compared to my usual form. So if our feet are supposed to land closer to our body, our stride length is reduced?

[Thjeko]

@cicirunner Hi there, No not necessarely. Less braking of forward movement will prevent you from the need to put éxtra effort to keep up your speed. Check the vids of "Usain Bolt running technique" and "Tirunesh Dibaba, best running technique ever" (also on this YT channel). Their foot lands very close under the body, yet their speed is high and their stride length matches their speed (determinded by the angle of lean) perfectly. You can run injury free. Invest and make it happen. Take care!

[shaolinmasters]

@Thjeko well technically stride length is reduced because instead of striding ahead, your now having your feet land under your CG. But then again its cadence that makes up for speed. Greater turn overs with less energy would let you run longer, more efficiently and faster with some training.

[Thjeko]

@shaolinmasters Yes true, that completes the answer nicely. Point is that many people seem to think that a landing under the hip excludes longer strides which is not true. The angle of lean (degree of the Center Of Mass falling away from support) determines cadence, range of motion of legs (stride length) and speed. When the angle of lean increases (like in sprinting), cadence and ROM of legs (and thus stride) length increases.

[stoidipukeaw]

@cicirunner get vibram five fingers, and wear them only on grass for short periods of time (at first). don't wear shoes inside. If you do both of these, and eventually try going barefoot outside, your form will improve and you will become a much better runner.

NOTE: GO AS SLOWLY AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN!!!! If you don't go slowly enough, you WILL get injuries. Your feet were designed to run barefoot, but they need to start slowly. They are out of practice, but if they get stronger, you'll be better.

[SuperJenkins37]

@cicirunner You might feel slow just because your body isn't used to running in a different way. Look up Dathan Ritzenhien dynamic flexibility there are some great warm techniques that will improve your form if done consistently

[percdann]

Usually videos like this on youtube are rubbish, this is an exception. Great work, if i were to say one further thing it would be to work on hip flexors, they seem to have a small range of motion

[sfrance783]

nice

[askaboutRudyV]

Awesome video, great detail and pointers. I will practice tomorrow, thanks.

[MultiQuickscopeZz]

i dont know my mates tell me i am fast but run dodgy any help?

[charlotte07071]

Could someone please help me?

When I'm running, I 'stomp' my feet down with each stride - I'm noisier than other people on the treadmill although I'm not overweight, I seem to land very heavily on my feet.

I googled this, and suggestions said to run heel-forefoot heel-forefoot so that I'm not running with 'flat feet'.

This video says to maintain a good running pose, you minimise the heel impact and run more with a flat foot, essentially.

Which pose am I supposed to do? Help is appreciated!

[staubmon]

What do you wear underneath running tights?

[nerdaface]

from what i can tell i land heel first and never had heel or shin pain BUT recently during a half marathon exactly at mile 12 i got a strange sort of pinch under my left foot. i Never had any problems before i ran maybe 9 miles max no problem i was confused and have been trying to figure out the cause bc if its a technique issue then its likely to happen again at around the same mile mark. Could heel landing cause this after just one long run? or is it bad posture in general from fatigue?? :/

[RitvarLegend]

pose is natural for me, i dont understand why so many people do the heel striek?

[griffinman13]

There are no pose coaches near me. Can I send you a video of myself running.

[CarlosStephenPR]

I run about 8 miles everyday and always feel a lot of burning in my chins and knees. Now I understand why. I Dint know my running technique was that bad, thank You for posting this

[imperialfleet1]

There are no pose coaches available near me, is there a way I can post a video of me running or email it to you and pay for your analysis?

[Thjeko]

@imperialfleet1 Just send me a vid and I see what I can do. If possible use a camera that films 30fps. Try to make a footage as in the example above. Be patient for my reply I'm quite busy. CU ;-).

[Thjeko]

@imperialfleet1 Hi there, check my newest vid ;-).

[claudioscheuer]

Very nice video! Thanks for sharing!

I have improved my pace from 5:50/km to 5:00/km only using this technique!

[stevelau1933]

@claudioscheuer

I went from around 7:00 to the 5:40s with this technique within a couple weeks. I also only started running a bit over a month ago so I'm still on the beginner's curve, but I did notice a very quick improvement once I started using pose however it seems like my muscles get sore and I need to slow down pretty soon into the run. I can start out a first lap at around 70 seconds, and do OK on the second, but then there's a significant slow down by 3rd since my legs can't hold up.

[stevelau1933]

@claudioscheuer

Do you think it's possible to get my 1 mile time from the 5:40s down to the mid 4s in a couple months by improving the pose technique, and getting my legs used to it? If I could maintain the lap I usually run for the first lap for 4 laps, then I could, but pose running gets you sore.

[Johnandvanessa]

WHERE CAN I LEARN THAT TECHNIQUE OR WHERE CAN I FIND SOMEBODY TO HELP ME LEARN

[Thjeko]

@Johnandvanessa Watch other vids on my channel as well and read the description that comes with it. Take a look at the posetech website. At first it can be hard to find your way around, but there's lost of great info there. They are working on a new, fresh site. Good luck with your running!!

[Maka90]

Is this the same technique you would use for sprinting or does it only apply to this kind of running?

[Thjeko]

@Maka90 Yes the technique (that what we do or even more shouldn't do), remains the same regardless speed. It will look different as the body lean and range of motion of legs will vary with speed.

[ufopiloot]

i tried running on my forefoot, but hurts a lot more on my shins then heel running. Also i so a clip that mentioned if you run barefoot you will run on your forefoot. Euh i tried it and i'm still landing on my heels.

[Thjeko]

@ufopiloot Lots of habits are so ingrained that they won't disappear at once by just digging the shoes or forcing a forefoot landing. Everybody can land forefoot. No big deal at all. Problem is, that it can still be a landing ahead of the body and therefore still brake forward movement and put muscles and joints under stress. If you're able to (learn! and) let the foot land under the body by itself, the landing over forefoot will come naturally and with the least amount of stress. Good luck!!

[behindmytrubody]

WALKING AND RUNNING THERE ARE DIFFERENT TECHNIQUE EACH OTHER...

[impactgreatness]

This is interesting! Thanks for this!

[Chapix3]

hi , ive got a question i play rugby and train 3 days a week , i was running alot with the heel, and as the week progressed my leg muscles were hurting me more and more so the third day i couldnt even walk, could that be the reason?

[Thjeko]

@Chapix3 Yes sure. Quick advice; Try to run more compact instead of forcing big steps to run faster. Work on quick leg turnover (increase cadence). Take care!

[rauler79]

I appreciate your commentary at the end of the video. It's always nice to hear what people think when they look at someone's form. Thanks!

[cjt5mith]

I can't find the Pose book in the UK, and I can't afford a coach at present, so I am trying to pick up the basics from the web.

It seems to me that even after the drills etc., the runner's foot is coming up behind him, not under his hips as taught in the drill. However he looks good, so is the drill more about learning how it should feel to the runner when he pulls his foot up, rather than how it should look to an observer?

[Thjeko]

@cjt5mith Hi, Yes he's pulling behind. This is a result of late pulling due to (still) too much push off action and his exaggerate angle of lean that counter balances the leg backward after take of. The perception (feeling) of the act of pulling is; ankle in a STRAIGHT line under the hip (vertical in static drills without lean and somewhat angled when running). Because of momentum (inertia) the visual will show like a circular motion, but the perception of the pull direction is straight under.

[tadaa11]

@Thjeko I there a difference between chi running and pose?

[Thjeko]

@tadaa11 Yes there are quite some differences. As this is a very common question, I described the main differences between Chi- and Pose in the "Chi running (Danny Dryer)" vid that you can find on my Thjeko channel as well (don't forget to read the description next to the vid). The visual of DD's Chi running (taken from the main Chi website) can be compared with the recent upload of "Nicholas Romanov Pose running" vid. Hope this makes things more clear.

[3196trevor]

spreding of info is good, Im not saying no, I'm a small island coconut (Trinidad to be exact) but is just funny to me that what is almost common knowledge here was explicity stated and called a tech, and there even plagiarism i dont know who was first, Newton, pose or chi.

To me is just as funny as when columbus "re" discovered "the new world" ......just being an ass thats all

[Thjeko]

@3196trevor That's okay ;-). In his books, Nicholas Romanov refers to all the folk (Newton a.o.) that shared great knowledge. Posemethod was (as far as I know) the first (end 70's) to recognize running as a skill of movements and not just something (especially in this modern age) that we naturally ALL do well and can't be learned. The Pose method is a method to help people improve their running technique. The Pose "standard" helps people to analyze their running and to correct errors.

[3196trevor]

@Thjeko..lol, I like how checked out my fav vids, (shure you saw a lot of booty shakin vids too...lol ) thats so i wont forget to show my co worker that its the same thing as the p90x plyometric workout......

[3196trevor]

So somebody reinvented the weel.... all bare foot runners and persentience hunters, and children who play bare feet know this, not explicitly just normal body mechanics, its when you stride too far you'll land on your heel which hurts withou a shoe

[Thjeko]

@3196trevor Not sure they KNOW it, but they just DO it and they probably won't need your "10 Foundation Building Exercises" too ;-). Despite the fact that a touch down under the hip (COM) is now generally accepted as a good point of running technique, many people don't have any idea HOW to achieve such. Pose method is a METHOD to help people improve on running technique. The majority of new methods just tell us WHAT the running should look like and not HOW to get there. Big difference......

[poolplayer2093]

the guy just looks less exhausted in the after video.

[Elantry]

I am just a casual jogger, but this has helped me a lot! I improved my 3,5 km lap time by one minute the first time i tried it, and it just feels better. It's also fun to work on technique while running, so you have something to do...

[viperdude281]

i always laugh when i see heel landers

[skwerl23]

hes getting shin splints due to his heel landings. his shin is flexing to keep his toes upwards, and then he lands and his feet level out fighting that flexing, thats what causes shin splints

[poolplayer2093]

@skwerl23 i've always run landing on my heal first and i've never had shin splints. could it really just n ot be that important?

[Thjeko]

@poolplayer2093 Hi there, It all depends on the load and degree of forward impact. Furthermore, if you run just a couple of times per week for a short time (about 30 min.) in a slow pace you might get away with errors as well. If you're happy about your running, don't fix and change it ;-).

[inimus1]

HEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLL  SSSTRRRIIIKKKKEEEEE!!!!!!! IS BAD TO YOUR HEALTH

[marti18golfgolf]

"SO DONT PUSH-PULL!" false statement!!! you push off the ground and dont pull. running is the most natural movment humans can do WHY??? just look at a kid running naturally. its bad coaching and bad info which misleads people. the second clip is what we do naturally so why make a big deal out of it!

[Thjeko]

@marti18golfgolf Big deal?? As his "natural" way of running was as in the first clip (which made him suffer from shinsplint) he was looking for a better way to run. That's all.

[Thjeko]

@marti18golfgolf Of course there is a push when running. We need GRF (vert. and hor.) just as we need gravity to get our body moving forward. Nevertheless we don't teach active (deliberate) pushing. We only need a small push and this push action (according to pose) happens re-actively (without our concern). Together with the energy return from recoil and the stretch-shortening response, this will be enough to move and elevate (4-6cm) the COM the necessary bit to ensure efficient running.

[TheJayzee2]

cool shoes.

[antonino4300]

Porra, não entendo esses comentários em outras línguas. Será que não tem ninguém que saiba a língua portuguesa para postar conteúdo analisando a técnica para melhor passar a mensagem do que o vídeo está se propondo ?

[blessedfay]

thanks this helps alot, i run alot..

[deus0305]

Seems like that leg lift is too exagerated. That cannot be too efficient.

[Thjeko]

@deus0305 You're are right, but at this stage this "too much action" is not strange. Things need to be fine tuned and it will come with practice, better perception and patience.

[cal011316]

the form in 0:00 - 2:30 just killed me i cant stand seeing that

[MaloMaloProductions]

The instructions are good but the images show too little falling and to much spring action. The slow motion video show it clearly. When you see barefoot Africans running you don't see this, instead you see a body movie steady across the field as if wheels were sitting beneath the runner. Nice try though!

[Thjeko]

@MaloMaloProductions Well, you can't have it all in one session.... ;-)

[NoNameRequested]

Thanks.. Finally some good Pose running instructions and explanations. Not only a teaser ending with a link to a commercial site, where you can buy a book or a course/workshop for hundreds of dollars.

[TouchTypist]

Nice improvement.

[mikenorm2002]

Great video Jacky! Many of the things you mention are relevant to me also.