@ALoENoMESeLL "You have heard it said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I say to you, 'Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." So how sick is that? How sick would the world be if we all did that?
Hebrews 9:22 God said, ”God’s law requires nearly everything to be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness”
The God in the Bible, resorts to violence in murder. For being all-powerful. That's not a good start. Let me point out some stuff you. Your God resource to killing innocent children all the time. So you've got a God that is a child killer. He killed innocent children.! How sick can you get!
@ALoENoMESeLL So true.. LOL Bible Contradictions Genesis 1:11-12 and 1:26-27 Trees came before Adam. Genesis 2:4-9 Trees came after Adam. Genesis 1:20-21 and 26-27 Birds were created before Adam. Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Birds were created after Adam. Genesis 1:24-27 Animals were created before Adam. Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Animals were created after Adam. Genesis 1:26-27 Adam and Eve were created at the same time. Genesis 2:7 and 2:21-22 Adam was created first, woman sometime later
@suzukidas2 Well, you need to study this out a little more. I have six feet of library space of translations that don't have the word hell or the concept everlasting punishment in them from cover to cover.
@tentmaker777 Yes, I did to have different Bible versions, and also the Koran to. Also, I have a typed out that is 1800 years old. The sad part about the Bible and the Koran, they both consistently contradict themselves. But, what do you expect, it was written by men, 300 years after Christ, and they have no education about science or biology. Children in fourth grade today have better education than those men who wrote the Bible and the Koran.There both worthless information.
@suzukidas2 Have you ever had a paradigm shift in your life, where you saw things one day and in an instant all of a sudden saw things in a completely different way and were amazed at how that could happen? Amazed at how everything around you or a certain aspect of life becomes almost the opposiste of what you believed before?
/// no the will of God is that all will be saved. So therefore God's will is over his creations even if his creations reject him. ///
God's "benevolently" wills/desires all to repent, but from the foundation of the world, He "decretively" willed that only some be saved and the rest perish.
The Bible makes it clear that not all will be saved - in Matthew 25, Jesus will save the "sheep", but the "goats" will get the exact opposite (eternal life vs eternal punishment)
@doctorh2005 you just contradicted yourself. if God desires all to repent then that is his will, (since 'to will' and 'to desire' are synonymous) God will's all to repent and come to into the love of Christ
/// you just contradicted yourself. if God desires all to repent then that is his will, (since 'to will' and 'to desire' are synonymous) ///
No I didnt contradict myself at all. Scripture shows that whatever God "Decretively" desires - or what He "decrees" will definitely come about - but.... what God "Benvevolently" desires, didn't always come about.
See DEUT.5:29, 32:29, PSALM 81:13, ISA.48:18... "OH THAT" - showing a desire for something that SHOULD have happened.
Therefore, since not all will ultimately be saved, God's "desire/will" for all to be saved is therefore not a "DECRETIVE" desire/will, but a "BENEVOLENT" desire/will
See my video - "The Free Offer Of The Gospel - John Murray (Defended)"
search for "Matthew 25:46 Commentary" and "amirault" on google. If Everlasting Punishment is not Eternal then how can Life be Eternal? (Matthew 25:46) You'll find my answer there.
The life is endless because we are promised "Immortality" (deathlessness, not timelessness). "Aion" and its adjective "aionios" are indefinite periods of time as stretching forward or backwards. And dont let the word "Indefinite" cause you to falsely assume "eternal" because "indefinite" is simply an unknown or unspecified period. Aionios is an adjective like "hourly" is an adjective. Aion is a period of time better understood as simply an "age" or "a time".
i havent even watched this yet but Im trying to figure all this stuff out in my head, and another brother has just told me that the greek "aoinis"(spelt wrong) that is used to support a NOT-eternal state is also used for us as believers in our everlasting state - so his argument is that if we use this word that believers wont have an everlasting life just as punishment wont be forever,therefore it's wrong to believe this way.HELP!!! Im stuck on this one,if you have a vid PLSE send to me,thnks
There are literally many people who suffer a blow to the head and have such amnesia, they are literally different people, and have no memory of their former selves. So , is the corporal being of flesh the being , a constant sign of the soul or person harbored in the body ? Or , can people die, their soul and spirit leaves their own body, but the flesh not dying fully, "Their Worm Dieth Not" then the Fallen Angels as Demons take over, as a Predestination of the Sovereign God's Will.
There are literally many people who suffer a blow to the head and have such amnesia, they are literally different people, and have no memory of their former selves. So , is the corporal being of flesh the being , a constant sign of the soul or person harbored in the body ? Or , can people die, their soul and spirit leaves their own body, but the flesh not dying fully, "Their Worm Dieth Not" then the Fallen Angels as Demons take over, as a Predestination of the Sovereign God's Will.
This is why Catholics are right about Purgatory, That the Redeemable Nature of Man and the Sin Nature of Man coexist in the flesh and God separates the Sin from the Redeemable Gifts. So, God purges the soul with Fire and Wrath of Truth. Jesus spoke about the predestination of the saved and the damned, as to say God presented us with evil spirits that appeared human , but were not imputed with a soul, and thus were "Fallen Angels" appearing in the flesh, Not one was lost that was of God.
@tentmaker777 Catholic Purgatory actually came from German Jewish Kabbalists who discerned that the soul of the man has redeemable nature, and only the sin nature must be destroyed, or purged away , after death , which the Jews believed it took about one or two years of judicious redemptive works by God to destroy sin but preserve the original intent of God who first conceived each soul . Jesus went into hell to redeem the saints who were also needing purification by Redemption.
@CarmineFragione I am curious how much you have read from Rabbi's regarding salvation of Gentiles or lack thereof. By the way, this comments section is just for that, to leave a comment. It is not a discussion board. Please don't spam here or else your comments will be removed. Thanks.
@tentmaker777 God is the Eternal Word. If you accept the Predestination of God for Salvation , then the lost ones, were meant to be so , from the beginning, such as Judas. Who do you think are the Nephilim, is that just a metaphorical story to you ? If you accept that God is outside Time , then every child, is then predestined to be saved, it is not a work of oneself, it is the work of God. If you deny that, it is better for every child to die before the age of accountability.
Doctrine, beliefs and faith should be able to withstand questioning and thorough study. We need to seek truth instead of defending what we've been taught as truth.
What I don't understand is if both these men have the Holy Spirit in their lives how can one be so wrong? Surely on a matter so important the Holy Spirit would give us the clear definitive answer to such a vitally important issue. I'm not talking about passages from the Bible because it's clear man translates this differently, but in the heart. Is the answer not a favorable one? hence no great conviction.
@kingfisher64 I have been in many churches and am amazed at how different teachings can be all supposedly coming from the same Holy Spirit. When I meet God face to face, that will be one of my first questions. How could He allow us to get so easily deceived. And it seems to me many people who are deceived are not purposefully deceived. Argh.
Some people prefer darkness than light, is not the same as people prefer torment rather than peace. Nobody prefers that, not now or ever. I'm a Christian but have a massive problem with eternal hell, not hell - the eternal bit. I believe in annihilation in my heart but want to believe in unviversalism.
@kingfisher64 Annihlationism still leaves God a failure and we naturally don't want God to be a failure. If He fails with plan A, what makes us think He won't fail with Plan B? How much confidence and trust can we put in a God who failed?
@tentmaker777 - This would be the bit where I reflect on the point that it's our choice to accept or reject Jesus, with the outcome of that being Hell or Heaven. The other gentleman in the video suggested to something similar (some people prefer darkness). Our acceptance or rejection is not a reflection on God's failure or success, however it is a failed system. Are there any scriptures reflecting/suggesting that Hell is not eternal? To be honest this is the only thing that frightens me. :(
@kingfisher64 Titus 2:11- For the grace of God has been revealed, bringing salvation to all people.
1 Timothy 2:3-6- This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth. For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus. He gave his life to purchase freedom for everyone. This is the message God gave to the world at just the right time.
1 Timothy 4:10- This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
Romans 5:18- Yes, Adam’s one sin brings condemnation for everyone, but Christ’s one act of righteousness brings a right relationship with God and new life for everyone.
@kingfisher64 John 12:30-32- Then Jesus told them, “The voice was for your benefit, not mine. The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out. And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”
Psalm 22:27- The whole earth will acknowledge the Lord and return to him. All the families of the nations will bow down before him.
@kingfisher64 Philippians 2:9-11- Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
@ndzoko Yes, if you visit the what-the-hell-is-hell site, there are photos of Gehenna, the place many Bible translations say is Hell. It was in Jesus' mouth 11 times. As a matter of fact, I'm sure Israel would love to make tourist packages up for you. You could be the tour guide and see how God made Hell Holy just as He promised. Jer 31:40 ....Jer 31:40 ... shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.
@tentmaker777 If you believe hell exists, you believe that your god is the worst tyrant you can imagine. Hitler, Stalin etc. killed their opponents and that was the end. But this loving heavenly father TORTURES FOR ALL ETERNITY not only his opponents but even those who happen to not-believe in him.
Walls is heavily dependent on the Trinity being the truth. Not all Christians believe that Jesus was God. It was officially decided by the council of Nicea that he was. Since when does God put His affairs into the hands of a committee of men? Jesus was a Jewish rabbi, and he was not a Christian.
@ndzoko The first man is a fictitious character, unless you have evidence for his existence. That statement is just as foolish as yours. Your five senses and natural mind are POOOOR instruments for determining truth and reality. See the article "You are uniquely and wonderfully Made" by Gary and Michelle Amirault on line.
@tentmaker777 I can only laugh with all those people, who are 100% sure about the truth. Saw an interview of an Anglican bishop, a couple days ago on T.V. Somebody asked: monsignor do you believe there is an afterlife, and if so what is your evidence.: Reply: I donot know if there is an afterlife, nobody ever returned from the dead. But I accept that god`s love is eternal and he will take care of that. That`s the right answer. NOBODY KNOWS. Evidence is the only measure of truth.
@ndzoko Einstein's "evidence" made him conclude our galaxy was the universe. He was wrong. Like I said, our five senses and our natural mind, is very easy to fool, there are thousands of optical illusions created proving that. Lawyers love to have multiple witnesses because they always contradict each other. Our eyes, for example, see only a tiny part of the light spectrum. Dumb animals have better senses than we do. Your pride, my friend, will find you out.
@tentmaker777` Someone` s error does not contradict that EVIDENCE is the only measure of truth. Science and scientists make errors. Otherwise it would be perfect, which is not of this world.>>> Dumb animals have better senses than we do<<< indeed most animals have at least one sense mcuh better as humans. That`s one more piece of evidence, that we are not special, not a chosen race. Just a dumb animal who developed enough brain to put him on top of the animal world.
@ndzoko That's my point. Who decides what is "evidence?" You are certainly not qualified to know "evidence." Until you come face to face with your creator, your evidence will be greatly lacking.
@ndzoko How does one who is blind receive evidence of something that requires sight? Ask your creator to give you eyes with which to see. Then you'll have all the evidence you need to express faith."Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen." Verses like these are foolishness to those who have not been given eyes to see, but to those who have, they have all the evidence they need.
@tentmaker777 What qualifies you to brand others as "blind" ? Can you give evidence that YOU are not blind ??>>>>. No intelligent being can have something against somebody`s faith.. Believe what you want. Call the whole thing one big miracle.The problems arise when you try to prove your faith with evidence that is not there. Than you run into people who use their brains.
@ndzoko Let's put it this way. I recall the days when I sounded just like you. And now I see that I was really very blind. There is another means of determining REAL reality, it's by revelation directly from God. It's like another sense, a sense that produces REAL EVIDENCE, not the confusion that comes from five bad senses connected to a bad brain. I can't give you this sense, I can only bear witness to it. But one day you'll know. til then, peace.
@ndzoko Well that makes you unlike me because I wasn't chasing anything like God. Then one day He healed me of alcoholism and revealed His love for me and all mankind at the same time. It was quite amazing and POWERFUL evidence. I met a God who gave me all the evidence I needed to believe in Him. He's no mirage. and when He reveals Himself to you, you'll know. Til then....
@tentmaker777 What makes you believe that YOU are special ? What makes you assume that other people did not have the (religious) experiences you claim ? What makes you so sure that in 30 40 years what you experience now as truth will be viewed by you as fantasy ? ? Did you know that some of those who got mystical experiences later became agnostic even atheists ?
@ndzoko First of all, I'm no more special than you or anyone else on the planet. I can only testify of my experience with God and to me, he gave me plenty of evidence for his existence, not only "mystical" experiences of his reality, but plain old experiences that made it plain he was in my life in a big time way. You can find some of that in my testimonial on the tentmaker ministries site. Look for Gary Amirault testimonial. Tell me, why are you sticking with this thread so hard? God knocking?
@tentmaker777 Then one day He healed me of alcoholism..>>>>>> Now man, be serious. Why would this omnipotent god stoop down to heal a drunk, but let 100,000 INNOCENT children die a horrible death beneath the rubble of their dwellings in Haiti. That makes no sense at all. Why do you think YOU are so special ?
@ndzoko Rom 11:31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[8] receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. Rom 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. Dude, your "vision" is very tiny, His plan and purpose for us all goes way beyond our few moments under the sun. That He healed me of alcoholism at age 37 is a big deal in my life and I'm grateful. I never used to be grateful, even that is a gift.
@tentmaker777 , His plan and purpose for us all goes way beyond our few moments under the sun. >>> There is no evidence for a divine plan. Why would he have a plan for us and not reveal it. We are supposed to act according to a plan, which is blank. Give me one instance in this world ,were people have to execute a plan without having a blue-print, with detailed information.
The Bible does not teach eternal punishment. God's love and mercy endures forever. Does it really endure forever or only in this life? How can it be Good News if it doesn't translate to the afterlife?
1 Timothy 4:10- This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
Mark 9:49 - For every one shall be salted with fire.
1 corithian 3:13 and 3:15 of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare it, because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove;
if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be SAVED, but so as through fire
It would be nice to see people reasoning from fluency models of translations and leaving the canons of theology. For if we hope to be honest, we will never do so if we keep the extant canons and the synthetic translations in the conversation.
Why would anyone want to waste all of their time talking about the metalanguage of theology and avoid the substantive? Why would anyone continue to use Flat Earth Science textbooks in a rational discussion? From time to time one might use them in analogy as to failure, but it fails all, if Flat Earth Science/Theology becomes the premise of discussion. These extant-English-translation models that are quite wooden, language stupid, and source corrupted should not be so used....
My point is, and it's sad: we have a world looking for some real proof: truth, and we seem more than satisfied staying in an irrational world of make believe.
Get the book The Aqua Oracle by Ty Anderson, it is the best book on Universalism I have ever read. You can find it at amazon. Check out the chapter titles of this book, very intense.
folks, time to just take this dog and pony show and retire it. you have no knowledge of what you are speaking about. Thinking/intellectualizing, quoting bibles, believing, these are all just man made trials to figure something out that cannot be known at our level of existence.
@rovingdesertfox Well, if you mean through your natural mind, you are correct. But God has given some "the mind of Christ," and if you had it, you would change your present opinion.
@rovingdesertfox There is a broad difference between the mind of fallen man and the mind of Christ. Revelation is not something that is understood by the natural mind, it is foolishness to it. The hearing of faith is something probably impossible to explain to a mind the foundation of which is lies. Read an article "Programmed to lie" on the tentmaker site.
@tentmaker777 I would be more interested to hear how the mind of Christ has worked practically for YOU.
I'm way passed theory here. I would like to see how it functions for you; how the mind of Christ translates in your life right now. And if it cannot be explained thru the natural mind, how does man even have a chance to hear god's message thru it? After all, this natural mind is how we hear about all of this.
I would simply refer Bill and Mary to a psychiatrist and wish them well; it's more than just a little sick that they have found a platform, but in Catholicism, Protestantism and Universalism, insanity seems to be the norm.... The Greek and Hebrew mss of Scripture do not have the doctrines of hell in them, and there is no evidence for "hell" outside of mythology. So, if intellectual honesty is what you want, you might want to leave C,P, and U out of your options. May God bless.
both of these are wrong, the only way to heaven is through a relationship with Jesus Christ. Hell is a real place. God doesnt want us to be there however if we reject God and continue in our sin we have no choice but to go to hell and we in return choose hell for ourselves. God cannot be with sin and Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. We must believe in him and trust in him as our savior and turn from our sin to be saved.
@tentmaker777 you overestimate your own goodness and radically underestimate god's holiness. this is where you are fundamentally flawed in your view. you have no concept of true godly justice and perfection. your focus is on man, not god. and this is where your error begins from. there are endless warnings (and in perfectly clear context) about hell in scripture. you simply choose to explain them away with nonsense that flies in the face of what is clearly written and verifiable.
@anewdayproductions It is true that the goodness God has given me is much more than the "holiness" of your god. No human being would do to another human being what you ascribe to God. God is love, with whom nothing is impossible and who never fails. That's Scripture. In Adam all died even so in Christ shall all be made alive. That is also scripture AND justice. God's love is perfect and will overcome ALLLL his enemies, again MORE scripture.
@tentmaker777 jesus christ himself clearly warned about the severity and finality of hell time and again. only a senseless idiot would attempt to misconstrue that. you are pitifully dishonest human being and nothing but an idolater and liar. don't bother responding with your inane stupidity and twisted views of scripture. any comment will be deleted immediately. i have better things to do with my time than to converse with a common fool who tries to make god a liar.
@anewdayproductions It's hard to keep one's composure when exposed to your way of thinking. God is the one who created us, and now because we are where we are, he has to judge us and roast us eternally.
Perfect example of sick and insane thinking/believing. First of all, thinking and believing is not knowing.
In your response I would challenge you to address that statement. You can quote the bible and what other people have told you all day long, but to be honest you know nothing about this.
@rovingdesertfox "but to be honest you know nothing about this"
that one statement alone destroyed any reason for me to actually respond to you. whether i know about this or not, you have absolutely no information about me whatsoever that would lead you to an honest conclusion such as that. rather, your arrogant bias and presumption in what you want to believe is clearly revealed. you're just another presumptuous fool as evidenced by your own words. don't bother responding. not interested.
@anewdayproductions I would ask you to forgive me and answer my point, if you'd like. If you don't want to/can't respond to the point I was making instead of being offended, I understand , but why don't you try addressing the issue.?
@rovingdesertfox your apology has earned points with me (if indeed you mean it), however i have strong suspicions about the sincerity of your motivations.
anyone who can't see the obvious amount of evil in the world and understand why god would punish that is willingly blind. it's not even up for debate. that's fundamental to even the most simple minded person. not to mention as human beings we logically behave the exact same way. the question is this....... on what basis do we define evil?
@anewdayproductions I am speaking from a 40 yr. history in the flock; I just analyzed and challenged my belief system. And if you feel god can eternally punish someone for doing anything in the temporal world, you haven't thought about it much. Define evil any way you want to. Here's another challenge : check out the o. test.
God is the one who created the evil, so have strong suspicions about my motives, check out your own belief system. I'm just after truth, not dogma.
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
Why do you love to parrot a metalanguage which insults fluency models of translation and advocates synthetic models of translation? Why are you more comfortable being a coward than being honest with the Read? I'm not trying to insult you, but your fear is not reasonable...your quote is target sensitive and not intended to/for the modern, i.e., if the context and language of the author has any value.
Reading Bibles, or any other work, would be a plus point for any mind, i.e., if the reader were honest and the work followed suit, but I don't think you are suggesting an honest Read (intended polysemy). Pretending that you are reading the Word of God from an English system of theological gloss isn't smart, but actually quite stupid/Protestant. So, why do you defend it so? Btw, do you really think that God forgives? I want your response, but not on a page of Universalism-bias.
@theNewCovenantGroup Yea, casting aspersion on God's word is easy to justify yourself and the sewage you call "theology". God is not the author of confusion. He has spoken effectively and clearly to HIS people fromk the beginning.
The canons of Judaism, Protestantism, and Catholicism represent a metalanguage flux of theologies, not a fluency model of theology, or an honest measure of literature. So, you can spin theological gloss to yourself and others by your metalanguage use of "God's word" in/with hyperbole, but you're failing to be honest to the mss of Scripture et al.
We could play sound-byte theology for awhile with passages like: For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on them all (Rom 11:32), but I don't think that would be a contextual benefit. So, do you think that God forgives? Please answer on a page without Universalism bias. Thanks.
@theNewCovenantGroup I'm sure we could, the only difference is that yours will be out of colntext, you'll abuse words like "All" and "world" and apply passages written to believers to every person in existence.
I'm not interested in beating the term "all" beyond recognition--that's what Universalists do--but I am interested in context. That's why I keep asking you to talk to me on a page that's not theologically crippled with Universalism and its illogical hermeneutic. I'm totally against sound-byte theology, and I would hope that you would agree. So, do you think that God forgives? (Please use another page to answer.)
@theNewCovenantGroup Of course you're not "interested" in being honest with how these biblical terms are used. If you were intersted in exegesis, you'd at least understand that Romans 9 precedes Romans 11.
If you are not willing to be honest with what I have written, and you haven't been, then why would anyone think that you are interested in honest dialog. Once again, I'm not interested in beating the term "all" beyond recognition--that's what Universalists and Protestants do--but I am interested in context. (It's obvious that you have no intention of serious dialog, and your avoidance of my question and my request speaks volumes. So, good day, and may God bless.)
Universal salvation is a Buddhist concept . This is the most likely source of the concepts Jesus brought forth to the Jews. It's a shame it became so entangled with all the meglomanical madness that Abrahamaic religions come with.
@MaitreyaRocket I believe Genesis was written before the Buddhist concept came into being. In Genesis is a promise that all the families of the world will be blessed. True, the Bible is a mixture of darkness and light. There is plenty of light to explain the darkness. God works all things to the good once the eyes are enlightened.
@tentmaker777 - Genesis was indeed written prior to the Buddha's life . However, I'm failing to see any idea of salvation proposed in Genesis . Let alone one that can be made comparable to any Buddhist concept. Being saddled vicariously with charges of sin is totally foreign to eastern thought. Buddhist salvation remedies actual matters that humanity deals with.
For years I beleived in eternal damnation, while hating myself for it. Then one day in the midst of my despair, the holy spirit testified to me: "What is to stop me from saving all people?"
Immediately a veil was lifted from my eyes. I couldn't help but rejoice. The God we serve to truly greater than I had imagined!
Eternal damnation is an abhorrent self-centered belief that provides assurance for some at the exclusion of others.
Amen!!!! It's that wicked vengeful spirit within man that prevents us from seeing each other in God's own image. God's vengence is feeding the poor and clothing the naked. Paul made that plain. Jesus said to "love your enemies." it's right in the scriptures but we become blind when we have that Pharisaic spirit.
The question is not whether Hitler will be in heaven the question is whether the 6 million Jews whom he killed with be there, for they most certainly did not have faith in Jesus (a false messiah in their minds). Is that justice on God's part? Think about it for a moment.
You guys are just upset because if there is no hell, it means you won't get to sit in front of big screen TVs in heaven pointing and laughing at everyone who disagreed with you politically, beat you at Halo, or made fun of you in middle school as they are eternally tortured
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
@proverbs1722 Why you keep repeating the same scripture to convince to people that hell is a place of torturing fire. The lake of fire is figurative meaning separation from God where many people outside the gate is going to be wailing and gnashing of teeth wanting to get in. Second death is not annihilation but separation from God.
@MrPaulryan76 Separation from self is what most humans have achieved .... thanks to things like..religion, politics and the schools that indoctrinate us into a false life of promises
end result is the hell we all live in down here on planet Earth... forever ruled by elite faceless greedy families who have been in control for thousands of years....
If the ministry of Jesus was to save the world from ET He would have said so. When Jesus began His public ministry He stood up and read from Isa 61 1-3; Lk 4 18-19 records the event. He read "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because He has anointed me to preach good news, proclaim freedom.. (v19) to proclaim the year of the Lords favor" He stopped mid sentence and walked away not finishing the verse in Isaiah which says "and the day of vengeance of our God" He came for salvation not vengeance
All of this "reasoning" on your part, with it's particular and intended implications, all come tumbling down in the face of but one verse of Scripture:
"And whoever was not found written in the book of life was CAST into the LAKE OF FIRE.""
Somebody doesn't know what the lake of fire is. Why would you base a whole ridiculous doctrine on one verse? Do a study on what the fire is in apocalyptic language, and find out what the lake of fire is before you speak.
He quotes John 3:16, but cuts it off before it gets to "and shall not perish but have eternal life." Why? Because the verse shows the farce that hell is.
snakes love grace for themselves. It's when God decides He will eventually pour it out on EVERYONE that snakes get bity. There's a parable about a man who have a field and hired in the morning. I'll give you a day's wage. They agreed. Later some more wanted work. A day's wage. They agreed. At the end of the day, some came, the work was basically over. A day's wage. They agreed. And the sefl-righteous Christian who had worked a long time said, "That's not fair! Such is the state of self-righteous
This is actually my favorite parable, and, interestingly it came on the heels of the disciples asking Christ, "Wev'e give up all, what are we going to get out of it?" It's very possible they were contrasting themselves with the rich young ruler in a carnal sort of manner. Whatever be the case, the parable of the vineyard owner underscores the abundant grace of God.
To say the parable supports universalism is unwarranted.
peterpulpitpounder Writes: To say the parable supports universalism is unwarranted. In a mind filled with hellfire and damnation, I could where you would miss the implications. But those who have embraced the Savior of the whole world, they find the Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ on every page of the Bible. Fear or Love. Each will have its own. We know where you stand....hellfire and damntion.
The parable doesn't teach it. That's a fact. I haven't missed any of the so called "implications" you claim exist. Yes, it does speak of God's amazing goodness and grace, but to say it teaches universalism is to take the parable beyond the intent of the Spirit and to ignore a wealth of revelation which teaches otherwise.
I'm a "whole counsel of God" kind of preacher. The doctrine of hell is just one of many aspect of my message.
Any preacher that teaches Hell, has only one message, that God is a failure and anyone with brains would reject Him. You've turned thousands away from the Savior of the world to an image, a hideous idol you call God. Your really think very highly of yourself exactly like the Pharisees of Jesus day. You are blind to your insanity. Lord, please, open this man's eyes so he can see the wickedness he is preaching in your name!
@peterpulpitpounder hey, have you guys ever thought of changing the lyrics of "amazing grace how sweet the sound" to "not much mercy can be found'? its quite catchy if you hum it to yourself. It would more accurately articulate your theological position
Grace is amazing because it delivers us from the wrath to come. Do you ever mention this wrath to people you witness to, or do you deem it inappropriate, preferring the watered down "Joel Osteen" approach to calling sinners to repentance? You should to a word search on the term wrath in the Bible. You might be surprised how often it is used. Romans 2:5 speaks of the coming "day" of wrath.
The subject at hand is whether God frieds His children like you maintain. You've taken way too much of my time with your spamming. I'm not going to get into all the theological toys devil worshippers like to play with. Jesus is the Savior of the world. Dear lost soul out there, don't let this pulpitpounding spitter's words into your soul. They are poison they will put you into unbelief. God loves you and he'll never stop trying to win you whether on this side of the grave or the other.
I"m not spamming. In fact, you've posted pretty much on the same level. And your "call" to whoever might be tuned into this forum to not listen to the words I have spoken is actually quite lame, seeing that all I've been doing is quoting the Bible in rebuke of your unsound theological convictions. "And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." That's right out of the good book, and it means exactly what it says.
This spammer has posted dozens of posts here telling people God has a place for little children who have not accept Christ...a lake of literal fire in which God will torture these little ones endlessly. That is His good news and he wants to come here and share this good news. This man needs a psychiatrist. He scares Hell into littel kids and actually thinks he's going a good deed! What a demented man.
I never once mentioned little children being cast into hell and tortured. When it comes to the age accountability, only God has the capacity to make this judgemnt, and we can be sure His judgemnt is just. Hell is a real place, a furnace of fire, a lake of fire. Those expression are Scriptural, and the implications thereof are not terrible. To redifine the LOF as some refining concept or phase is absurd.
I just realized why you love to preach on Hell so much. You've spent a lot of time here bragging on yourself. Gee, when you preach a God who is an angry old wart who's going to punish most of mankind if they don't listen to the preacher and do what he says, you are using an angry god to make yourself look good! You now play the savior. You now present yourself as the person who can keep them out of Hell. You now appear greater than the god you present! What a snake!
@peterpulpitpounder unsure Pete.. tending toward no... i have a wife and 3 kids and am a director of 3 companies.. if i were single id devote my life to theology and pursuing it on a much deeper level - its just not granted to me to do so for now... (besides I become completely obsessed with things to the point of insanity- probaly not a good thing) Im just walkin through doors the Lord opens for me. He is awesome - blows my mind..
why is it that people have no problem believing that God could - in a flash of light - convert saul of Tarsus from being a blaspheming, murdering, anti christ to being an instument of divine truth? Is God unable to deal with mediocre sinners and unbelievers - is His only recourse to torture them in fire forever without parole? what a stupid doctrine - only satan could come up with something that misleading...
Precisely, there are two spammers here dkarnish and peterpulpitpounder who are perfect servants of Satan and they can't see it. They have the same blindness the Pharisees had to ask Jesus, "Are we blind to?"
@tentmaker777 deepest thanks for the amazing info on your site mate - it was through the agency of a similar site containing the same wonderful truths (LRay) that I was really 'born again' I was close to throwing myself under a train because of the mental torment produced by ET teachings. When you mix- 'Gods grace is all powerful' with the 'He'll BBQ you in hell if you get it wrong" doctrine - it does nothing by produce anxiety and psychosis..
you're welcome. You should stick around and tell the peterpulptpounder, a true spiritual terrorist who gets little children to drink his coolaid (hellfire and damnation gospel) what this kind of teaching does to sensitive souls. He's so enamoured with grace for himself that he can't see past his own nose. He can't see that his "gospel" is not very good news for most of mankind. He's blind in his self-righteousness. Tell him what turn or burn did to you. Peace, Gary
I'd change "spammers" to "slammers," because it fits better. What wev'e done is a lot like a wrestling move, in that weve body slammed both universalism and preterism with the clear, unadulterated Word of God, and the result has been overwhelmingly victorious. False doctrine will never compete with the true message of Scripture.
What is so frightening to me is that you really believe your insanity. And yes, you are spamming this. It's NOT a discussion forum, it's a place to leave a comment. But you and your cohort, post dozens and dozens of posts and I'm merely defending viewers here from your noxious poison that you call the "unadulterated word of God. You are a liar of the worst kind.
@peterpulpitpounder i wasnt trying to defend anyone - i simply asked why it is that clergy insist on lying to their congregations by telling them God demands 10 % of their paycheck. its one of the biggest scams going - fear is a powerful motivator! I used to believe in hell and tithing and 'speaking in tongues' etc but i woke up one day and realized i was needing medication to deal with the stress of wondering if God was pleased with me or not - abundant life? i think not.. abundant madness..
@peterpulpitpounder i quoted it just as it is. If you can debate a christian with scripture, then you can corner a snake in a briar patch. What am i saying? I'm saying you are a snake.
God is able to do many things that He may decide NOT to do. But who is He talking to here, Peter? He is sending His disciples to people who will want to kill them as they preach the gospel. Jesus told them not to be afraid of man. If you are going to be afraid, fear God. Yet most of the time He tells them NOT to fear. "Perfect love casts out fear." But that love would come later. The disciples did not have that yet, obviously, based upon John and James comments in Luke 9:54. gehenna is not hell
Why don't you stop avoiding the hard verses of Scripture? I know they cramp your theological style, but at least quote one every once in a while. You sound soooo much like the liberal ministers in may area, ooozing with what they like to think is God's mercy and love, while actually failing to faithfully carry out their duties as God's watchman. Bark once in a while, will you! (That's in the OT).
You are unkind, and you do speak like a liberal. If your language was balanced and scriptural, I would have no isse. But it's not balanced, and it represents a gross neglect of whole gobs of Biblical revelation pertaining to judgment, punishment and damnation. As I said once before, you make even Jesus look bad.
No sir, you are unkind and speak like a snake. You say I make Jesus look bad. I believe His is the savior of all mankind. That's Bad? YOU say, Jesus came to save the world but that He will lose most of it, must allow most of mankind to rot in a Hell created by His father and you say that is good? Surely the saying is fulfilled in you that there are some calling good evil and evil good. Like I said, you are a self-righteous pharisee. Again, are you pastor at Danforth Baptist Church?
Gotta go. Will resume our conversation at a later time. Let's see if I understand you correctly. I'm a snake because I reject the notion that all will ultimately be redeemed, and because I think preterism is absurd, and because I think you are extremely gullible and deceived to believe that Christ has already come back? I'm just doing what the Apostle Paul commaned Timothy to do, when He said, "Rebuke and exhort with all longsuffering."
You're a snake because you make the gospel so hideous millions who need Jesus will never come to him because you make him look like such a pathetic failure. At Tentmaker Ministries is a testimonials section. Read the testimonial of a microsoft programmer. It is the second testimonial on the page. He will show you what you have done to many people over your life.
"You make the gospel so hideous millions..will never come to Him."
More baseless accusation. I proclaim the wonderful, hope filled, glorious, justifying, sanctifying, message of Christ's redeeming blood. Any reference to hell only serves to enhance the beauty of Christ's Gospel.
The "medicine" cannot be fully valued until one sees the ugliness of sin's presence, plight and outcome. In fact, I just finished a message entitled "the ultimate invitiation" out of Is. 55.
If you examined the hundreds and hundreds of sermons I've preached in the same church for 23+ years, you would be embarrassed by your accusations. I preach the whole counsel of God, in a gracious, sensitive and balanced fashion. Sure, I've made mistakes and have grown a lot over the years, but I've loved the sheep God has committed to my care, and there mutual love for me is proof of the groundless nature of your charges. Boy, you sure love being wrong!
I have examined the spam you've left here. You are demented person who needs serious mental help. You can't love sheep that you give false images of God to. You put them into unbelief. You are not sensitive, you're insane.
@tentmaker777 Hi Tentmaker777 ... just wonder if you can supply any links useful for study into the Gemera Babylonicum, (specifically relating to the Rich Man and Lazarus parable which is contained therin .. altered by Jesus of course ..?) This parable pre dates Christ and Jesus used it to ridicule the Pharasees who had come to believe upon it. I checked on your site and could not find what I was searching for. Any help is appreciated. thanks mate...
The fucking hell guy keeps interrupting the universalist. Drives me crazy and weakens his argument cause he looks like he has something to hide.
metallica04100 6 days ago
But suppose you want to go to hell. Wouldn't eternal damnation show that your earthly life had meaning after all?
MrAdvancedAtheist 1 week ago
The God In the Bible Is a Failer... Eternal Damnation is a mental sickness of this men... The Bible is so Full of Shit and Lies...
suzukidas2 3 weeks ago
@suzukidas2 The Bible gets even more shittier when eye use it fur toilet paper hahahahahahaha
ALoENoMESeLL 3 weeks ago
@ALoENoMESeLL "You have heard it said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I say to you, 'Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." So how sick is that? How sick would the world be if we all did that?
tentmaker777 3 weeks ago
@tentmaker777 How sick is your Bible.
Hebrews 9:22 God said, ”God’s law requires nearly everything to be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness”
The God in the Bible, resorts to violence in murder. For being all-powerful. That's not a good start. Let me point out some stuff you. Your God resource to killing innocent children all the time. So you've got a God that is a child killer. He killed innocent children.! How sick can you get!
suzukidas2 3 weeks ago
@tentmaker777 Yes, because a few nice verses makes all the bad stuff go away!
Keitaro2011 3 weeks ago
suzukidas2 3 weeks ago
@suzukidas2 Well, you need to study this out a little more. I have six feet of library space of translations that don't have the word hell or the concept everlasting punishment in them from cover to cover.
tentmaker777 3 weeks ago
@tentmaker777 Yes, I did to have different Bible versions, and also the Koran to. Also, I have a typed out that is 1800 years old. The sad part about the Bible and the Koran, they both consistently contradict themselves. But, what do you expect, it was written by men, 300 years after Christ, and they have no education about science or biology. Children in fourth grade today have better education than those men who wrote the Bible and the Koran.There both worthless information.
suzukidas2 3 weeks ago
@suzukidas2 Have you ever had a paradigm shift in your life, where you saw things one day and in an instant all of a sudden saw things in a completely different way and were amazed at how that could happen? Amazed at how everything around you or a certain aspect of life becomes almost the opposiste of what you believed before?
tentmaker777 3 weeks ago
good debate.
AndresZiroX 1 month ago
Jerry Wall is an arminian...
Arminianism is heresy as it teaches the "Free Will" of human beings against the Sovereign will of God over all His creation.
doctorh2005 3 months ago
@doctorh2005 no the will of God is that all will be saved. So therefore God's will is over his creations even if his creations reject him.
ProdigalSon222 3 months ago
@ProdigalSon222
/// no the will of God is that all will be saved. So therefore God's will is over his creations even if his creations reject him. ///
God's "benevolently" wills/desires all to repent, but from the foundation of the world, He "decretively" willed that only some be saved and the rest perish.
The Bible makes it clear that not all will be saved - in Matthew 25, Jesus will save the "sheep", but the "goats" will get the exact opposite (eternal life vs eternal punishment)
doctorh2005 3 months ago
@doctorh2005 you just contradicted yourself. if God desires all to repent then that is his will, (since 'to will' and 'to desire' are synonymous) God will's all to repent and come to into the love of Christ
ProdigalSon222 3 months ago
@ProdigalSon222
/// you just contradicted yourself. if God desires all to repent then that is his will, (since 'to will' and 'to desire' are synonymous) ///
No I didnt contradict myself at all. Scripture shows that whatever God "Decretively" desires - or what He "decrees" will definitely come about - but.... what God "Benvevolently" desires, didn't always come about.
See DEUT.5:29, 32:29, PSALM 81:13, ISA.48:18... "OH THAT" - showing a desire for something that SHOULD have happened.
doctorh2005 3 months ago
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@ProdigalSon222
/// (since 'to will' and 'to desire' are synonymous) ///
But "to DECRETIVELY will/desire" and "to BENEVOLENTLY will/desire" are NOT synonymous.
And that is the situation my friend.
doctorh2005 3 months ago
@ProdigalSon222
Therefore, since not all will ultimately be saved, God's "desire/will" for all to be saved is therefore not a "DECRETIVE" desire/will, but a "BENEVOLENT" desire/will
See my video - "The Free Offer Of The Gospel - John Murray (Defended)"
:-)
doctorh2005 3 months ago
Good job Gary, thanks for standing up for the truth.
Jackson
whatthehellbook . com
whatthehellbook 3 months ago
search for "Matthew 25:46 Commentary" and "amirault" on google. If Everlasting Punishment is not Eternal then how can Life be Eternal? (Matthew 25:46) You'll find my answer there.
tentmaker777 4 months ago
@tentmaker777
The life is endless because we are promised "Immortality" (deathlessness, not timelessness). "Aion" and its adjective "aionios" are indefinite periods of time as stretching forward or backwards. And dont let the word "Indefinite" cause you to falsely assume "eternal" because "indefinite" is simply an unknown or unspecified period. Aionios is an adjective like "hourly" is an adjective. Aion is a period of time better understood as simply an "age" or "a time".
signsix 4 months ago
@tentmaker777
Thats not directed at you tentmaker777 I know your beliefs, I only replied to give others reading it a glance at the reasoning.
signsix 4 months ago
i havent even watched this yet but Im trying to figure all this stuff out in my head, and another brother has just told me that the greek "aoinis"(spelt wrong) that is used to support a NOT-eternal state is also used for us as believers in our everlasting state - so his argument is that if we use this word that believers wont have an everlasting life just as punishment wont be forever,therefore it's wrong to believe this way.HELP!!! Im stuck on this one,if you have a vid PLSE send to me,thnks
jvsm1971 4 months ago
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There are literally many people who suffer a blow to the head and have such amnesia, they are literally different people, and have no memory of their former selves. So , is the corporal being of flesh the being , a constant sign of the soul or person harbored in the body ? Or , can people die, their soul and spirit leaves their own body, but the flesh not dying fully, "Their Worm Dieth Not" then the Fallen Angels as Demons take over, as a Predestination of the Sovereign God's Will.
CarmineFragione 5 months ago
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There are literally many people who suffer a blow to the head and have such amnesia, they are literally different people, and have no memory of their former selves. So , is the corporal being of flesh the being , a constant sign of the soul or person harbored in the body ? Or , can people die, their soul and spirit leaves their own body, but the flesh not dying fully, "Their Worm Dieth Not" then the Fallen Angels as Demons take over, as a Predestination of the Sovereign God's Will.
CarmineFragione 5 months ago
This is why Catholics are right about Purgatory, That the Redeemable Nature of Man and the Sin Nature of Man coexist in the flesh and God separates the Sin from the Redeemable Gifts. So, God purges the soul with Fire and Wrath of Truth. Jesus spoke about the predestination of the saved and the damned, as to say God presented us with evil spirits that appeared human , but were not imputed with a soul, and thus were "Fallen Angels" appearing in the flesh, Not one was lost that was of God.
CarmineFragione 5 months ago
@CarmineFragione But the Catholic purgatory is only for Catholics and therefore is wrong.
tentmaker777 5 months ago
@tentmaker777 Catholic Purgatory actually came from German Jewish Kabbalists who discerned that the soul of the man has redeemable nature, and only the sin nature must be destroyed, or purged away , after death , which the Jews believed it took about one or two years of judicious redemptive works by God to destroy sin but preserve the original intent of God who first conceived each soul . Jesus went into hell to redeem the saints who were also needing purification by Redemption.
CarmineFragione 5 months ago
@CarmineFragione I am curious how much you have read from Rabbi's regarding salvation of Gentiles or lack thereof. By the way, this comments section is just for that, to leave a comment. It is not a discussion board. Please don't spam here or else your comments will be removed. Thanks.
tentmaker777 5 months ago
@tentmaker777 God is the Eternal Word. If you accept the Predestination of God for Salvation , then the lost ones, were meant to be so , from the beginning, such as Judas. Who do you think are the Nephilim, is that just a metaphorical story to you ? If you accept that God is outside Time , then every child, is then predestined to be saved, it is not a work of oneself, it is the work of God. If you deny that, it is better for every child to die before the age of accountability.
CarmineFragione 5 months ago
@CarmineFragione I believe everyone will be saved. My response in the video makes that obvious so why are you posting?
tentmaker777 5 months ago
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Doctrine, beliefs and faith should be able to withstand questioning and thorough study. We need to seek truth instead of defending what we've been taught as truth.
whatthehellbook . com
whatthehellbook 5 months ago
What I don't understand is if both these men have the Holy Spirit in their lives how can one be so wrong? Surely on a matter so important the Holy Spirit would give us the clear definitive answer to such a vitally important issue. I'm not talking about passages from the Bible because it's clear man translates this differently, but in the heart. Is the answer not a favorable one? hence no great conviction.
kingfisher64 5 months ago
@kingfisher64 I have been in many churches and am amazed at how different teachings can be all supposedly coming from the same Holy Spirit. When I meet God face to face, that will be one of my first questions. How could He allow us to get so easily deceived. And it seems to me many people who are deceived are not purposefully deceived. Argh.
tentmaker777 5 months ago
Some people prefer darkness than light, is not the same as people prefer torment rather than peace. Nobody prefers that, not now or ever. I'm a Christian but have a massive problem with eternal hell, not hell - the eternal bit. I believe in annihilation in my heart but want to believe in unviversalism.
kingfisher64 5 months ago
@kingfisher64 Annihlationism still leaves God a failure and we naturally don't want God to be a failure. If He fails with plan A, what makes us think He won't fail with Plan B? How much confidence and trust can we put in a God who failed?
tentmaker777 5 months ago
@tentmaker777 - This would be the bit where I reflect on the point that it's our choice to accept or reject Jesus, with the outcome of that being Hell or Heaven. The other gentleman in the video suggested to something similar (some people prefer darkness). Our acceptance or rejection is not a reflection on God's failure or success, however it is a failed system. Are there any scriptures reflecting/suggesting that Hell is not eternal? To be honest this is the only thing that frightens me. :(
kingfisher64 5 months ago
@kingfisher64 Titus 2:11- For the grace of God has been revealed, bringing salvation to all people.
1 Timothy 2:3-6- This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth. For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus. He gave his life to purchase freedom for everyone. This is the message God gave to the world at just the right time.
whatthehellbook 5 months ago
@kingfisher64
1 Timothy 4:10- This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
Romans 5:18- Yes, Adam’s one sin brings condemnation for everyone, but Christ’s one act of righteousness brings a right relationship with God and new life for everyone.
whatthehellbook 5 months ago
@kingfisher64 John 12:30-32- Then Jesus told them, “The voice was for your benefit, not mine. The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out. And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”
Psalm 22:27- The whole earth will acknowledge the Lord and return to him. All the families of the nations will bow down before him.
whatthehellbook 5 months ago
@kingfisher64 Philippians 2:9-11- Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
whatthehellbook 5 months ago
Hell is childish scare-monering. I would like to know were this hell is, for touristic purposes.
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ndzoko Yes, if you visit the what-the-hell-is-hell site, there are photos of Gehenna, the place many Bible translations say is Hell. It was in Jesus' mouth 11 times. As a matter of fact, I'm sure Israel would love to make tourist packages up for you. You could be the tour guide and see how God made Hell Holy just as He promised. Jer 31:40 ....Jer 31:40 ... shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.
tentmaker777 5 months ago
@tentmaker777 If you believe hell exists, you believe that your god is the worst tyrant you can imagine. Hitler, Stalin etc. killed their opponents and that was the end. But this loving heavenly father TORTURES FOR ALL ETERNITY not only his opponents but even those who happen to not-believe in him.
ndzoko 5 months ago
Walls is heavily dependent on the Trinity being the truth. Not all Christians believe that Jesus was God. It was officially decided by the council of Nicea that he was. Since when does God put His affairs into the hands of a committee of men? Jesus was a Jewish rabbi, and he was not a Christian.
k0smon 5 months ago
@k0smon "Before Abraham was, I am." Jesus IS not a Jewish Rabbi, "Of Him to Him and through Him are all things."
tentmaker777 5 months ago
@tentmaker777 Abraham is fictitious charakter, unless you have evidence for his existence.
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ndzoko The first man is a fictitious character, unless you have evidence for his existence. That statement is just as foolish as yours. Your five senses and natural mind are POOOOR instruments for determining truth and reality. See the article "You are uniquely and wonderfully Made" by Gary and Michelle Amirault on line.
tentmaker777 5 months ago
@tentmaker777 I can only laugh with all those people, who are 100% sure about the truth. Saw an interview of an Anglican bishop, a couple days ago on T.V. Somebody asked: monsignor do you believe there is an afterlife, and if so what is your evidence.: Reply: I donot know if there is an afterlife, nobody ever returned from the dead. But I accept that god`s love is eternal and he will take care of that. That`s the right answer. NOBODY KNOWS. Evidence is the only measure of truth.
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ndzoko Einstein's "evidence" made him conclude our galaxy was the universe. He was wrong. Like I said, our five senses and our natural mind, is very easy to fool, there are thousands of optical illusions created proving that. Lawyers love to have multiple witnesses because they always contradict each other. Our eyes, for example, see only a tiny part of the light spectrum. Dumb animals have better senses than we do. Your pride, my friend, will find you out.
tentmaker777 5 months ago
@tentmaker777` Someone` s error does not contradict that EVIDENCE is the only measure of truth. Science and scientists make errors. Otherwise it would be perfect, which is not of this world.>>> Dumb animals have better senses than we do<<< indeed most animals have at least one sense mcuh better as humans. That`s one more piece of evidence, that we are not special, not a chosen race. Just a dumb animal who developed enough brain to put him on top of the animal world.
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ndzoko That's my point. Who decides what is "evidence?" You are certainly not qualified to know "evidence." Until you come face to face with your creator, your evidence will be greatly lacking.
tentmaker777 5 months ago
@tentmaker777 That`s my point, there is no creator; no evidence. Who decides what is evidence ? Good question. Answer it.
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ndzoko How does one who is blind receive evidence of something that requires sight? Ask your creator to give you eyes with which to see. Then you'll have all the evidence you need to express faith."Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen." Verses like these are foolishness to those who have not been given eyes to see, but to those who have, they have all the evidence they need.
tentmaker777 5 months ago
@tentmaker777 What qualifies you to brand others as "blind" ? Can you give evidence that YOU are not blind ??>>>>. No intelligent being can have something against somebody`s faith.. Believe what you want. Call the whole thing one big miracle.The problems arise when you try to prove your faith with evidence that is not there. Than you run into people who use their brains.
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ndzoko Let's put it this way. I recall the days when I sounded just like you. And now I see that I was really very blind. There is another means of determining REAL reality, it's by revelation directly from God. It's like another sense, a sense that produces REAL EVIDENCE, not the confusion that comes from five bad senses connected to a bad brain. I can't give you this sense, I can only bear witness to it. But one day you'll know. til then, peace.
tentmaker777 5 months ago
@tentmaker777 Let me put it this way. I was just like you, for more than 5 decades, untill I figured I was chasing mirages. Peace,!!!
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ndzoko Well that makes you unlike me because I wasn't chasing anything like God. Then one day He healed me of alcoholism and revealed His love for me and all mankind at the same time. It was quite amazing and POWERFUL evidence. I met a God who gave me all the evidence I needed to believe in Him. He's no mirage. and when He reveals Himself to you, you'll know. Til then....
tentmaker777 5 months ago
@tentmaker777 What makes you believe that YOU are special ? What makes you assume that other people did not have the (religious) experiences you claim ? What makes you so sure that in 30 40 years what you experience now as truth will be viewed by you as fantasy ? ? Did you know that some of those who got mystical experiences later became agnostic even atheists ?
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ndzoko First of all, I'm no more special than you or anyone else on the planet. I can only testify of my experience with God and to me, he gave me plenty of evidence for his existence, not only "mystical" experiences of his reality, but plain old experiences that made it plain he was in my life in a big time way. You can find some of that in my testimonial on the tentmaker ministries site. Look for Gary Amirault testimonial. Tell me, why are you sticking with this thread so hard? God knocking?
tentmaker777 5 months ago
@tentmaker777 Then one day He healed me of alcoholism..>>>>>> Now man, be serious. Why would this omnipotent god stoop down to heal a drunk, but let 100,000 INNOCENT children die a horrible death beneath the rubble of their dwellings in Haiti. That makes no sense at all. Why do you think YOU are so special ?
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ndzoko Rom 11:31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[8] receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. Rom 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. Dude, your "vision" is very tiny, His plan and purpose for us all goes way beyond our few moments under the sun. That He healed me of alcoholism at age 37 is a big deal in my life and I'm grateful. I never used to be grateful, even that is a gift.
tentmaker777 5 months ago
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@tentmaker777 , His plan and purpose for us all goes way beyond our few moments under the sun. >>> There is no evidence for a divine plan. Why would he have a plan for us and not reveal it. We are supposed to act according to a plan, which is blank. Give me one instance in this world ,were people have to execute a plan without having a blue-print, with detailed information.
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ndzoko You have to ask God buddy.
MrPaulryan76 4 weeks ago
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The Bible does not teach eternal punishment. God's love and mercy endures forever. Does it really endure forever or only in this life? How can it be Good News if it doesn't translate to the afterlife?
1 Timothy 4:10- This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
whatthehellbook . com
whatthehellbook 5 months ago
Heb. 12:29. For our God is a consuming fire.
Mark 9:49 - For every one shall be salted with fire.
1 corithian 3:13 and 3:15 of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare it, because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove;
if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be SAVED, but so as through fire
traditionsofmen1 6 months ago
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@traditionsofmen1 Way to rip those verses out of context. Boy you people bastardize the scriptures with no shame.
gtrjunky 5 months ago
Hell is a word from Norse mythology. The word in the Hebrew is sheol "grave"... in the Greek when used as Hati it's "where the dead go".
maxDSferris 6 months ago
It would be nice to see people reasoning from fluency models of translations and leaving the canons of theology. For if we hope to be honest, we will never do so if we keep the extant canons and the synthetic translations in the conversation.
theNCGstudios 6 months ago
@theNCGstudios Well, I think the battle can be won on their ground, so that's where it makes sense to me to fight.
tentmaker777 6 months ago
@tentmaker77,
Why would anyone want to waste all of their time talking about the metalanguage of theology and avoid the substantive? Why would anyone continue to use Flat Earth Science textbooks in a rational discussion? From time to time one might use them in analogy as to failure, but it fails all, if Flat Earth Science/Theology becomes the premise of discussion. These extant-English-translation models that are quite wooden, language stupid, and source corrupted should not be so used....
theNCGstudios 6 months ago
@tentmaker777,
My point is, and it's sad: we have a world looking for some real proof: truth, and we seem more than satisfied staying in an irrational world of make believe.
theNCGstudios 6 months ago
@tentmaker777,
BTW, I do appreciate your work, heart, and goodness. So, please keep it up, your videos are great.
theNCGstudios 6 months ago
Get the book The Aqua Oracle by Ty Anderson, it is the best book on Universalism I have ever read. You can find it at amazon. Check out the chapter titles of this book, very intense.
This book INCINERATES THE DAMNATIONISTS.
MichaelBoryAlis 7 months ago
@MichaelBoryAlis Did you read it? Do you know Ty Anderson? I'd like to speak with him about his book. Does he have a web site?
tentmaker777 7 months ago
folks, time to just take this dog and pony show and retire it. you have no knowledge of what you are speaking about. Thinking/intellectualizing, quoting bibles, believing, these are all just man made trials to figure something out that cannot be known at our level of existence.
rovingdesertfox 8 months ago
@rovingdesertfox Well, if you mean through your natural mind, you are correct. But God has given some "the mind of Christ," and if you had it, you would change your present opinion.
tentmaker777 8 months ago
@tentmaker777 If you want to reach people with this issue, you have to explain things thru the natural mind.
If you cannot explain it in plain terms, maybe it's a fabrication that uses logic that lies outside of the reality most of us are using.
rovingdesertfox 8 months ago
@rovingdesertfox There is a broad difference between the mind of fallen man and the mind of Christ. Revelation is not something that is understood by the natural mind, it is foolishness to it. The hearing of faith is something probably impossible to explain to a mind the foundation of which is lies. Read an article "Programmed to lie" on the tentmaker site.
tentmaker777 8 months ago
@tentmaker777 I would be more interested to hear how the mind of Christ has worked practically for YOU.
I'm way passed theory here. I would like to see how it functions for you; how the mind of Christ translates in your life right now. And if it cannot be explained thru the natural mind, how does man even have a chance to hear god's message thru it? After all, this natural mind is how we hear about all of this.
rovingdesertfox 8 months ago
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HELL IS REAL. View my Channel to watch a video.
SupportFreedom1 9 months ago
@ComoEstas15,
I would simply refer Bill and Mary to a psychiatrist and wish them well; it's more than just a little sick that they have found a platform, but in Catholicism, Protestantism and Universalism, insanity seems to be the norm.... The Greek and Hebrew mss of Scripture do not have the doctrines of hell in them, and there is no evidence for "hell" outside of mythology. So, if intellectual honesty is what you want, you might want to leave C,P, and U out of your options. May God bless.
theNewCovenantGroup 10 months ago
both of these are wrong, the only way to heaven is through a relationship with Jesus Christ. Hell is a real place. God doesnt want us to be there however if we reject God and continue in our sin we have no choice but to go to hell and we in return choose hell for ourselves. God cannot be with sin and Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. We must believe in him and trust in him as our savior and turn from our sin to be saved.
Benplayspiano92 10 months ago
@Benplayspiano92 Do you send your children to eternal flames if they steal a cookie from the cookie jar? Really?
tentmaker777 10 months ago
@tentmaker777 you overestimate your own goodness and radically underestimate god's holiness. this is where you are fundamentally flawed in your view. you have no concept of true godly justice and perfection. your focus is on man, not god. and this is where your error begins from. there are endless warnings (and in perfectly clear context) about hell in scripture. you simply choose to explain them away with nonsense that flies in the face of what is clearly written and verifiable.
anewdayproductions 8 months ago
@anewdayproductions It is true that the goodness God has given me is much more than the "holiness" of your god. No human being would do to another human being what you ascribe to God. God is love, with whom nothing is impossible and who never fails. That's Scripture. In Adam all died even so in Christ shall all be made alive. That is also scripture AND justice. God's love is perfect and will overcome ALLLL his enemies, again MORE scripture.
tentmaker777 8 months ago
@tentmaker777 jesus christ himself clearly warned about the severity and finality of hell time and again. only a senseless idiot would attempt to misconstrue that. you are pitifully dishonest human being and nothing but an idolater and liar. don't bother responding with your inane stupidity and twisted views of scripture. any comment will be deleted immediately. i have better things to do with my time than to converse with a common fool who tries to make god a liar.
anewdayproductions 8 months ago
@anewdayproductions It's hard to keep one's composure when exposed to your way of thinking. God is the one who created us, and now because we are where we are, he has to judge us and roast us eternally.
Perfect example of sick and insane thinking/believing. First of all, thinking and believing is not knowing.
In your response I would challenge you to address that statement. You can quote the bible and what other people have told you all day long, but to be honest you know nothing about this.
rovingdesertfox 8 months ago
@rovingdesertfox "but to be honest you know nothing about this"
that one statement alone destroyed any reason for me to actually respond to you. whether i know about this or not, you have absolutely no information about me whatsoever that would lead you to an honest conclusion such as that. rather, your arrogant bias and presumption in what you want to believe is clearly revealed. you're just another presumptuous fool as evidenced by your own words. don't bother responding. not interested.
anewdayproductions 8 months ago
@anewdayproductions I would ask you to forgive me and answer my point, if you'd like. If you don't want to/can't respond to the point I was making instead of being offended, I understand , but why don't you try addressing the issue.?
rovingdesertfox 8 months ago
@rovingdesertfox your apology has earned points with me (if indeed you mean it), however i have strong suspicions about the sincerity of your motivations.
anyone who can't see the obvious amount of evil in the world and understand why god would punish that is willingly blind. it's not even up for debate. that's fundamental to even the most simple minded person. not to mention as human beings we logically behave the exact same way. the question is this....... on what basis do we define evil?
anewdayproductions 8 months ago
@anewdayproductions I am speaking from a 40 yr. history in the flock; I just analyzed and challenged my belief system. And if you feel god can eternally punish someone for doing anything in the temporal world, you haven't thought about it much. Define evil any way you want to. Here's another challenge : check out the o. test.
God is the one who created the evil, so have strong suspicions about my motives, check out your own belief system. I'm just after truth, not dogma.
rovingdesertfox 8 months ago
@rovingdesertfox do you have children?
anewdayproductions 8 months ago
@anewdayproductions No I don't
rovingdesertfox 8 months ago
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waxheadglossy 10 months ago
@ComoEstas15 God is a Just God:
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
proverbs1722 10 months ago
@proverbs1722,
Why do you love to parrot a metalanguage which insults fluency models of translation and advocates synthetic models of translation? Why are you more comfortable being a coward than being honest with the Read? I'm not trying to insult you, but your fear is not reasonable...your quote is target sensitive and not intended to/for the modern, i.e., if the context and language of the author has any value.
theNewCovenantGroup 10 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup It sucks for you when people read their bibles instead of listening to your subterfuge doesn't it?
gtrjunky 9 months ago
@gtrjunky,
Reading Bibles, or any other work, would be a plus point for any mind, i.e., if the reader were honest and the work followed suit, but I don't think you are suggesting an honest Read (intended polysemy). Pretending that you are reading the Word of God from an English system of theological gloss isn't smart, but actually quite stupid/Protestant. So, why do you defend it so? Btw, do you really think that God forgives? I want your response, but not on a page of Universalism-bias.
theNewCovenantGroup 9 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Yea, casting aspersion on God's word is easy to justify yourself and the sewage you call "theology". God is not the author of confusion. He has spoken effectively and clearly to HIS people fromk the beginning.
gtrjunky 9 months ago
@gtrjunky,
The canons of Judaism, Protestantism, and Catholicism represent a metalanguage flux of theologies, not a fluency model of theology, or an honest measure of literature. So, you can spin theological gloss to yourself and others by your metalanguage use of "God's word" in/with hyperbole, but you're failing to be honest to the mss of Scripture et al.
theNewCovenantGroup 9 months ago
@gtrjunky,
I was hoping that you would answer my question: do you really think that God forgives? Please do so on page without Universalism as its premise.
theNewCovenantGroup 9 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup "Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens." - Rom.9:18
gtrjunky 9 months ago
@gtrjunky,
We could play sound-byte theology for awhile with passages like: For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on them all (Rom 11:32), but I don't think that would be a contextual benefit. So, do you think that God forgives? Please answer on a page without Universalism bias. Thanks.
theNewCovenantGroup 9 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup I'm sure we could, the only difference is that yours will be out of colntext, you'll abuse words like "All" and "world" and apply passages written to believers to every person in existence.
gtrjunky 9 months ago
@gtrjunky,
I'm not interested in beating the term "all" beyond recognition--that's what Universalists do--but I am interested in context. That's why I keep asking you to talk to me on a page that's not theologically crippled with Universalism and its illogical hermeneutic. I'm totally against sound-byte theology, and I would hope that you would agree. So, do you think that God forgives? (Please use another page to answer.)
theNewCovenantGroup 9 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Of course you're not "interested" in being honest with how these biblical terms are used. If you were intersted in exegesis, you'd at least understand that Romans 9 precedes Romans 11.
gtrjunky 9 months ago
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@gtrjunky,
If you are not willing to be honest with what I have written, and you haven't been, then why would anyone think that you are interested in honest dialog. Once again, I'm not interested in beating the term "all" beyond recognition--that's what Universalists and Protestants do--but I am interested in context. (It's obvious that you have no intention of serious dialog, and your avoidance of my question and my request speaks volumes. So, good day, and may God bless.)
theNewCovenantGroup 9 months ago
Universal salvation is a Buddhist concept . This is the most likely source of the concepts Jesus brought forth to the Jews. It's a shame it became so entangled with all the meglomanical madness that Abrahamaic religions come with.
MaitreyaRocket 10 months ago
@MaitreyaRocket I believe Genesis was written before the Buddhist concept came into being. In Genesis is a promise that all the families of the world will be blessed. True, the Bible is a mixture of darkness and light. There is plenty of light to explain the darkness. God works all things to the good once the eyes are enlightened.
tentmaker777 10 months ago
@tentmaker777 - Genesis was indeed written prior to the Buddha's life . However, I'm failing to see any idea of salvation proposed in Genesis . Let alone one that can be made comparable to any Buddhist concept. Being saddled vicariously with charges of sin is totally foreign to eastern thought. Buddhist salvation remedies actual matters that humanity deals with.
MaitreyaRocket 10 months ago
For years I beleived in eternal damnation, while hating myself for it. Then one day in the midst of my despair, the holy spirit testified to me: "What is to stop me from saving all people?"
Immediately a veil was lifted from my eyes. I couldn't help but rejoice. The God we serve to truly greater than I had imagined!
Eternal damnation is an abhorrent self-centered belief that provides assurance for some at the exclusion of others.
aceofspades25 11 months ago
Amen!!!! It's that wicked vengeful spirit within man that prevents us from seeing each other in God's own image. God's vengence is feeding the poor and clothing the naked. Paul made that plain. Jesus said to "love your enemies." it's right in the scriptures but we become blind when we have that Pharisaic spirit.
tentmaker777 11 months ago
The question is not whether Hitler will be in heaven the question is whether the 6 million Jews whom he killed with be there, for they most certainly did not have faith in Jesus (a false messiah in their minds). Is that justice on God's part? Think about it for a moment.
danielthedreamer 11 months ago
You guys are just upset because if there is no hell, it means you won't get to sit in front of big screen TVs in heaven pointing and laughing at everyone who disagreed with you politically, beat you at Halo, or made fun of you in middle school as they are eternally tortured
roguetrip99 11 months ago
@roguetrip99 Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
proverbs1722 11 months ago
@proverbs1722 Why you keep repeating the same scripture to convince to people that hell is a place of torturing fire. The lake of fire is figurative meaning separation from God where many people outside the gate is going to be wailing and gnashing of teeth wanting to get in. Second death is not annihilation but separation from God.
MrPaulryan76 4 weeks ago
@MrPaulryan76 Hell is infantilism.
ndzoko 4 weeks ago
@MrPaulryan76 Separation from self is what most humans have achieved .... thanks to things like..religion, politics and the schools that indoctrinate us into a false life of promises
end result is the hell we all live in down here on planet Earth... forever ruled by elite faceless greedy families who have been in control for thousands of years....
ALoENoMESeLL 3 weeks ago
If the ministry of Jesus was to save the world from ET He would have said so. When Jesus began His public ministry He stood up and read from Isa 61 1-3; Lk 4 18-19 records the event. He read "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because He has anointed me to preach good news, proclaim freedom.. (v19) to proclaim the year of the Lords favor" He stopped mid sentence and walked away not finishing the verse in Isaiah which says "and the day of vengeance of our God" He came for salvation not vengeance
etherform66 1 year ago
All of this "reasoning" on your part, with it's particular and intended implications, all come tumbling down in the face of but one verse of Scripture:
"And whoever was not found written in the book of life was CAST into the LAKE OF FIRE.""
Somebody doesn't know what the lake of fire is. Why would you base a whole ridiculous doctrine on one verse? Do a study on what the fire is in apocalyptic language, and find out what the lake of fire is before you speak.
TheLawFulfilled2 1 year ago
He quotes John 3:16, but cuts it off before it gets to "and shall not perish but have eternal life." Why? Because the verse shows the farce that hell is.
TheLawFulfilled2 1 year ago
snakes love grace for themselves. It's when God decides He will eventually pour it out on EVERYONE that snakes get bity. There's a parable about a man who have a field and hired in the morning. I'll give you a day's wage. They agreed. Later some more wanted work. A day's wage. They agreed. At the end of the day, some came, the work was basically over. A day's wage. They agreed. And the sefl-righteous Christian who had worked a long time said, "That's not fair! Such is the state of self-righteous
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
This is actually my favorite parable, and, interestingly it came on the heels of the disciples asking Christ, "Wev'e give up all, what are we going to get out of it?" It's very possible they were contrasting themselves with the rich young ruler in a carnal sort of manner. Whatever be the case, the parable of the vineyard owner underscores the abundant grace of God.
To say the parable supports universalism is unwarranted.
peterpulpitpounder 1 year ago
peterpulpitpounder Writes: To say the parable supports universalism is unwarranted. In a mind filled with hellfire and damnation, I could where you would miss the implications. But those who have embraced the Savior of the whole world, they find the Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ on every page of the Bible. Fear or Love. Each will have its own. We know where you stand....hellfire and damntion.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
The parable doesn't teach it. That's a fact. I haven't missed any of the so called "implications" you claim exist. Yes, it does speak of God's amazing goodness and grace, but to say it teaches universalism is to take the parable beyond the intent of the Spirit and to ignore a wealth of revelation which teaches otherwise.
I'm a "whole counsel of God" kind of preacher. The doctrine of hell is just one of many aspect of my message.
peterpulpitpounder 1 year ago
Any preacher that teaches Hell, has only one message, that God is a failure and anyone with brains would reject Him. You've turned thousands away from the Savior of the world to an image, a hideous idol you call God. Your really think very highly of yourself exactly like the Pharisees of Jesus day. You are blind to your insanity. Lord, please, open this man's eyes so he can see the wickedness he is preaching in your name!
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 Matthew 15:13
He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
proverbs1722 1 year ago
@peterpulpitpounder hey, have you guys ever thought of changing the lyrics of "amazing grace how sweet the sound" to "not much mercy can be found'? its quite catchy if you hum it to yourself. It would more accurately articulate your theological position
etherform66 1 year ago
@etherform66
Grace is amazing because it delivers us from the wrath to come. Do you ever mention this wrath to people you witness to, or do you deem it inappropriate, preferring the watered down "Joel Osteen" approach to calling sinners to repentance? You should to a word search on the term wrath in the Bible. You might be surprised how often it is used. Romans 2:5 speaks of the coming "day" of wrath.
peterpulpitpounder 1 year ago
The subject at hand is whether God frieds His children like you maintain. You've taken way too much of my time with your spamming. I'm not going to get into all the theological toys devil worshippers like to play with. Jesus is the Savior of the world. Dear lost soul out there, don't let this pulpitpounding spitter's words into your soul. They are poison they will put you into unbelief. God loves you and he'll never stop trying to win you whether on this side of the grave or the other.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
I"m not spamming. In fact, you've posted pretty much on the same level. And your "call" to whoever might be tuned into this forum to not listen to the words I have spoken is actually quite lame, seeing that all I've been doing is quoting the Bible in rebuke of your unsound theological convictions. "And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." That's right out of the good book, and it means exactly what it says.
peterpulpitpounder 1 year ago
This spammer has posted dozens of posts here telling people God has a place for little children who have not accept Christ...a lake of literal fire in which God will torture these little ones endlessly. That is His good news and he wants to come here and share this good news. This man needs a psychiatrist. He scares Hell into littel kids and actually thinks he's going a good deed! What a demented man.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
I never once mentioned little children being cast into hell and tortured. When it comes to the age accountability, only God has the capacity to make this judgemnt, and we can be sure His judgemnt is just. Hell is a real place, a furnace of fire, a lake of fire. Those expression are Scriptural, and the implications thereof are not terrible. To redifine the LOF as some refining concept or phase is absurd.
peterpulpitpounder 1 year ago
I just realized why you love to preach on Hell so much. You've spent a lot of time here bragging on yourself. Gee, when you preach a God who is an angry old wart who's going to punish most of mankind if they don't listen to the preacher and do what he says, you are using an angry god to make yourself look good! You now play the savior. You now present yourself as the person who can keep them out of Hell. You now appear greater than the god you present! What a snake!
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@peterpulpitpounder unsure Pete.. tending toward no... i have a wife and 3 kids and am a director of 3 companies.. if i were single id devote my life to theology and pursuing it on a much deeper level - its just not granted to me to do so for now... (besides I become completely obsessed with things to the point of insanity- probaly not a good thing) Im just walkin through doors the Lord opens for me. He is awesome - blows my mind..
etherform66 1 year ago
@etherform66
God is indeed awesome, and it's inspiring to think How He may use you within the secular realm. I you familiar with Proverbs 3:5-6?
peterpulpitpounder 1 year ago
why is it that people have no problem believing that God could - in a flash of light - convert saul of Tarsus from being a blaspheming, murdering, anti christ to being an instument of divine truth? Is God unable to deal with mediocre sinners and unbelievers - is His only recourse to torture them in fire forever without parole? what a stupid doctrine - only satan could come up with something that misleading...
etherform66 1 year ago
Precisely, there are two spammers here dkarnish and peterpulpitpounder who are perfect servants of Satan and they can't see it. They have the same blindness the Pharisees had to ask Jesus, "Are we blind to?"
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 deepest thanks for the amazing info on your site mate - it was through the agency of a similar site containing the same wonderful truths (LRay) that I was really 'born again' I was close to throwing myself under a train because of the mental torment produced by ET teachings. When you mix- 'Gods grace is all powerful' with the 'He'll BBQ you in hell if you get it wrong" doctrine - it does nothing by produce anxiety and psychosis..
etherform66 1 year ago
you're welcome. You should stick around and tell the peterpulptpounder, a true spiritual terrorist who gets little children to drink his coolaid (hellfire and damnation gospel) what this kind of teaching does to sensitive souls. He's so enamoured with grace for himself that he can't see past his own nose. He can't see that his "gospel" is not very good news for most of mankind. He's blind in his self-righteousness. Tell him what turn or burn did to you. Peace, Gary
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
I'd change "spammers" to "slammers," because it fits better. What wev'e done is a lot like a wrestling move, in that weve body slammed both universalism and preterism with the clear, unadulterated Word of God, and the result has been overwhelmingly victorious. False doctrine will never compete with the true message of Scripture.
peterpulpitpounder 1 year ago
What is so frightening to me is that you really believe your insanity. And yes, you are spamming this. It's NOT a discussion forum, it's a place to leave a comment. But you and your cohort, post dozens and dozens of posts and I'm merely defending viewers here from your noxious poison that you call the "unadulterated word of God. You are a liar of the worst kind.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@peterpulpitpounder i wasnt trying to defend anyone - i simply asked why it is that clergy insist on lying to their congregations by telling them God demands 10 % of their paycheck. its one of the biggest scams going - fear is a powerful motivator! I used to believe in hell and tithing and 'speaking in tongues' etc but i woke up one day and realized i was needing medication to deal with the stress of wondering if God was pleased with me or not - abundant life? i think not.. abundant madness..
etherform66 1 year ago
@peterpulpitpounder i quoted it just as it is. If you can debate a christian with scripture, then you can corner a snake in a briar patch. What am i saying? I'm saying you are a snake.
phillip78 1 year ago
@peterpulpitpounder that is a lie. Eze 18:4 behld all souls are mine
phillip78 1 year ago
God is able to do many things that He may decide NOT to do. But who is He talking to here, Peter? He is sending His disciples to people who will want to kill them as they preach the gospel. Jesus told them not to be afraid of man. If you are going to be afraid, fear God. Yet most of the time He tells them NOT to fear. "Perfect love casts out fear." But that love would come later. The disciples did not have that yet, obviously, based upon John and James comments in Luke 9:54. gehenna is not hell
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
Why don't you stop avoiding the hard verses of Scripture? I know they cramp your theological style, but at least quote one every once in a while. You sound soooo much like the liberal ministers in may area, ooozing with what they like to think is God's mercy and love, while actually failing to faithfully carry out their duties as God's watchman. Bark once in a while, will you! (That's in the OT).
peterpulpitpounder 1 year ago
When I bark you call me unkind. When I preach love you call me a liberal. I think I found you in the Bible:
Luke 7:31-35
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
You are unkind, and you do speak like a liberal. If your language was balanced and scriptural, I would have no isse. But it's not balanced, and it represents a gross neglect of whole gobs of Biblical revelation pertaining to judgment, punishment and damnation. As I said once before, you make even Jesus look bad.
peterpulpitpounder 1 year ago
No sir, you are unkind and speak like a snake. You say I make Jesus look bad. I believe His is the savior of all mankind. That's Bad? YOU say, Jesus came to save the world but that He will lose most of it, must allow most of mankind to rot in a Hell created by His father and you say that is good? Surely the saying is fulfilled in you that there are some calling good evil and evil good. Like I said, you are a self-righteous pharisee. Again, are you pastor at Danforth Baptist Church?
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
Mr. Tentmaker,
Gotta go. Will resume our conversation at a later time. Let's see if I understand you correctly. I'm a snake because I reject the notion that all will ultimately be redeemed, and because I think preterism is absurd, and because I think you are extremely gullible and deceived to believe that Christ has already come back? I'm just doing what the Apostle Paul commaned Timothy to do, when He said, "Rebuke and exhort with all longsuffering."
Good nite.
peterpulpitpounder 1 year ago
You're a snake because you make the gospel so hideous millions who need Jesus will never come to him because you make him look like such a pathetic failure. At Tentmaker Ministries is a testimonials section. Read the testimonial of a microsoft programmer. It is the second testimonial on the page. He will show you what you have done to many people over your life.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
"You make the gospel so hideous millions..will never come to Him."
More baseless accusation. I proclaim the wonderful, hope filled, glorious, justifying, sanctifying, message of Christ's redeeming blood. Any reference to hell only serves to enhance the beauty of Christ's Gospel.
The "medicine" cannot be fully valued until one sees the ugliness of sin's presence, plight and outcome. In fact, I just finished a message entitled "the ultimate invitiation" out of Is. 55.
peterpulpitpounder 1 year ago
You promote Satan's greatest lie, you make God a fiend and call yourself a pastor. What a pity.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
If you examined the hundreds and hundreds of sermons I've preached in the same church for 23+ years, you would be embarrassed by your accusations. I preach the whole counsel of God, in a gracious, sensitive and balanced fashion. Sure, I've made mistakes and have grown a lot over the years, but I've loved the sheep God has committed to my care, and there mutual love for me is proof of the groundless nature of your charges. Boy, you sure love being wrong!
peterpulpitpounder 1 year ago
I have examined the spam you've left here. You are demented person who needs serious mental help. You can't love sheep that you give false images of God to. You put them into unbelief. You are not sensitive, you're insane.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 Hi Tentmaker777 ... just wonder if you can supply any links useful for study into the Gemera Babylonicum, (specifically relating to the Rich Man and Lazarus parable which is contained therin .. altered by Jesus of course ..?) This parable pre dates Christ and Jesus used it to ridicule the Pharasees who had come to believe upon it. I checked on your site and could not find what I was searching for. Any help is appreciated. thanks mate...
etherform66 1 year ago