DEBATE: John 18:9, Does Jesus Lose Sinners Who Are "Given" To Him by the Father?

[CAnswersTV]

@Ruddermanspeaks Again you willingly deny what the scripture clearly says. Paul even uses your argument in Romans 9:19, "Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will?" Paul answers your argument in verses 20-23. Paul says God is the potter & we're the clay & He has a right to make one person a "vessel of wrath" (verse 22) & another a "vessel of mercy" (verse 23). God decides who is saved & who is lost, not men (John 1:12-13). God intentionally HARDENED Pharoah's heart (Exodus 7:3).

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@CAnswersTV Pharaoh couldn't say, why have you made me thus?, because Pharaoh chose to be an haughty idolator. Pharaoh being given over to even more hardness and multiplied sins was God's judgement upon him. God could have unleashed His wrath and sent him to hell years before Pharaoh had a chance to make his eternal torment much worse, but God owed him no such mercy. God endured him for His higher purposes. Now the choice to be a vessel of mercy or wrath, to begin with, is ours to make 2Tim2:21

[CAnswersTV]

@Ruddermanspeaks Based on your answers so far I'm beginning to wonder if you have any guidance of the Holy Spirit to interpret & understand the scriptures (1 Cor 2:14, Rom 8:7). I can show you point blank verses & you pervert every single verse to an meaning that takes control away from the Sovereign God & reassigns it to sinful men (2 Peter 3:16). Here you completely PERVERT Romans 9:17-23 which clearly says God is the Potter (not men). God raised up Pharoah for the purpose of destroying him.

[Ruddermanspeaks]

Yet this was not Jesus in His Omnipotence on His throne, so how can you use this scripture to say that Jesus' power will never lose none who were given to Jesus. Jesus was a man on earth, speaking of what He did as a man, not in Omnipotent power. He was limited, which made it expedient that He depart so that He could come IN them. I could go on and on. The first brother was right although very unclear in what he was trying to say. the second is spewing the doctrines of demons(eternal security)

[CAnswersTV]

@Ruddermanspeaks You fail to realize that Jesus was in constant communication with the Father & the Spirit at all times & He Himself was God in the flesh (Col 2:9). Thus He already knew in advance that Judas Iscariot was a devil (John 6:70), not a redeemed sheep but a goat bound for hell (Matt 25:30-46); in fact Judas was predestined by God for this purpose (Prov 16:4) just like Pharoah (Rom 9:10-23). Thus Jesus didn't lose anything as John 6 says since Judas was not of His sheep (John 10:26).

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@CAnswersTV Yes, Jesus didn't lose anything. If all the disciples had walked away,He didn't lose anything, because He was faithful. He was showing us the example of how we must be to those entrusted to us. Jesus enlightened, warned and equipped them,and if they had went astray, there blood was not on His hands. Judas chose wickedness, which God FORESAW, not intended. God warned Pilate's wife, intending that he choose righteously, but he chose death. also, once saved, you can be damned 2pet2:20

[CAnswersTV]

@Ruddermanspeaks Not at all, Judas was predestined to be a devil (John 6:70, 17:12) before he was ever born or made any decisions good or bad (Romans 9:11-23). God never granted him repentance to do what was right (2 Timothy 2:24-26) thus all Judas could do was choose evil continually (Romans 3:10-18, Jeremiah 13:23). Jesus even told Judas what to do at the last supper (John 13:26-27) & Judas did it just as God had planned it & "intended" it (Acts 2:23). Judas never has a chance (Romans 9:22).

[CAnswersTV]

@Ruddermanspeaks You're still failing to see the point I'm making with Judas as a prime example. Judas was predestined for hell (Proverbs 16:4), get it? He was made from all eternity by God to be a "vessel of wrath fitted to destruction" (Romans 9:22) & there was never any point in his life where this was not the case. Judas was not of Jesus' sheep (John 10:26) because he was never elected by God to be saved (Ephesians 1:4-11) but rather was ordained by God for condemnation instead (Jude 4).

[DefendingTheTruth]

This is my view of Heb 10:29

THE SON OF GOD is the one who was sanctified in Heb 10:29.

Jesus prayed this prayer just a few hours before he shed the blood of the covenant.

John 17:19 For their sakes I SANCTIFY MYSELF, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

[DefendingTheTruth]

Amen Larry.