@ecologicalguy RBE has nothing to do with Utopian ideals, because the whole notion of Utopia isn't desirable, or achievable. You would have to have a fixed static state society, and all development of humankind would have to stop at a certain point in time. Utopia is merely a fantasy. Now, there's no way of knowing if the RBE ever will be a reality, but it's a bold new direction with no final frontiers...
425 948 6787 DIVIDE AND CONQUER 11202 29TH DR SE EVERETT WA 98203 THEYRE GOING TO LOCK ME UP I JUST WANT TO HELP THE KIDS I AM QUITE FLAWED AND I AM HURT
Marx explains: "[Critical-Utopian Socialists and Communists] reject all political, and especially all revolutionary action; they wish to attain their ends by peaceful means, necessarily doomed to failure, and by the force of example, to pave the way for the new social Gospel."
And: "The charges against Communism made from a religious, a philosophical and, generally, from an ideological standpoint, are not deserving of serious examination."
His views on the family/marriage are exaggerated, too.
@amamerc Marx openly discussed Satan in his early poems, too, which is somewhat worrisome. Gary North also wrote an essay about Marx's ironic inability to manage himself financially. Finally, this is what annoys right-wingers: PJ seems to say that capitalism naturally leads to leftist/corrupt/Fed-monopolized system. The system isn't just capitalist: there are too many other negative influences to list. Still, PJ is right about some things, but his generalization in this vid is unsatisfactory.
@amamerc Capitalism encourages corruption - personal corruption, or corporate corruption. That is PJ's point, and it seems valid based upon empirical evidence. Marx lived in poverty working to help the oppressed slave wage workers of the early industrial revolution. Why is it that people know nothing about what Marx wrote, but are experts in his personal life for ad hominem attack? no the system isn't just capitalist, it's the dialectical process of capitalism destroying itself.
@slmrcs Supposedly, the new NDAA bill decriminalizes sodomy and sex with animals. Hard to believe. Point is, I utterly fail to see how TZM could in a million years be implemented by the government of the US. I think it can only develop in a non-coercive atmosphere. TZM is supposedly libertarian. But I will completely ignore IF it ever calls for big government to rob the people. This is why I tolerate TZM and not Marxism. Yes, I read what Marx wrote, and some of it is utterly sickening.
What matters?.. huh?.. In regarding a social structure. The level of health within ALL systems whether artificial or natural. That's what matters. The question isn't "Ins't that marxism?"... It's irrelevant! The question is "Does it work?"!
I think the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist movement confuse Marxism. Resource-based economy is Marxism (just without the technology aspect which I must say can definitely be added to Marxism as it does not contradict it). I believe they confuse it with Stalinism. The Trotskyist/Internationalist perspective i.e. real Marxism is a resource-based economy. This confusion must be cleared up. It would be a waste of an intellectual to loose Jacque Fresco to this confusion.
@RafaelItzhakov Jacque Fresco, doesn't understand Marxism. We just have to accept the good that comes him and excuse areas of ignorance (as with anyone). The socialist tradition is not based on resources, but on the "working class." This is a failure/limitation, with a classless society based on resources, perhaps an ideal, but not for today. Fresco bypasses all of that. Frensco, unlike Marx, isn' t based in 1860s technology. technology had made the working class obsolete
@slmrcs Yes but also interestingly enough, much of the zeitgeist movement and the venus project iis based on conspiracy and not a scientific method as utilized by Marx.
seriously? don't get why people have to shout 'he's a marxist!' he's a socialist! that is garbage and a distraction. those are just words sheeple have been trained to get defensive against. what is important is for people to understand what hes surfacing to the public mind... he's trying to help people to understand
@NDW21x what fucking difference does it make! Its all collectivism! smae nasty control freaks at the top. These very cretins then murder ppl who dont wnat tyheir system as seen in Russia - over 60 MILLION killed for oppsoing communism! Wake up ppl. STOP promoting ur own enslavement u fools
@Badwolf182 the USA invaded several countries under false pretense and killed millions of innocent people in the name of freedom and democracy... So with your logic freedom and democracy will result in war and mass murder...
I don't think its so much that we're hiding the fact that communism, by a certain definition, is exactly what the Venus Project entails. I don't think that discussion has come up so much. Its more that people get scared because when they think of communism they think of contemporary or historical examples such as Soviet Russia. But the Venus Project is NOTHING LIKE anything that has come before, because it transcends our current monetary system and has a completely different outlook.
There's nothing to be afraid of if we can get the world to agree. The incentive for power and corruption would disappear. Those who sought would be marginalized and seen as mad men.
i for one think that socialism/communism can work and is a system we should definitely aim for, since it seems like a more human and justifiable system to me than capitalism. and capitalism doesnt strike me as sth that will ever work without its exploitative "side effects".
@khoroshoorange Yes, but they must move past their ideology of the "working class" we are not the 99%, we are the 100%, and I believe that was Marx's greatest mistake.
china isnt a communist country. the soviet union was never a communist country.
marx wouldnt have stood for the soviet union or china.
even lenin called the political system of the soviet union state capitalism.
real socialism is nothing but the extension of democracy to your workplace where the money you generate flows into society and is not taken away by privat hands. where the people control the means of production. communism is a classless, stateless country with a ressource based economy.
@Cryptnox you mean socialism/communism is about Automation of Labor, use of Scientific Method for Social Concern, and a Cybernetic/Systemic understanding of our Planet? Thats awesome
@gabssnake No I mean "just" the elimination of money, proverty, banks, government, religion, advertising, companies etc... and automation isn't Venus Project Exclusive, it is an normal development in EVERY System. Communism can also have automation of labour, and Scientific Method for Social Concern? Communism is science par excellence. Nobody could ever debunk Marx in the last 150 years.
Get your facts right, kid. You obviously know nothing about communism.
@Cryptnox Take it easy. If you are for overcoming money, the market system, property, government, religion, and adopting automation to it's full capacity, with a systemic understanding of our planet and use of scientific method for social concern, hey! I'm a friend! Call it how you like, give credit how you like, I'm in!
@gabssnake As someone who in involved with TZM, and has read Marx, I believe you have pointed out the main reasons why TZM is not Marxism. Marx wrote volumes about capitalism, not how to created a better world based on future technology. I actually think there is much value in marx's work, but it's not even same topic as a RBE!
@slmrcs one more thing! its not just reading marx that makes you a marxist its using his methods i.e. scientific socialism that makes you a marxist. marxists have a lot to say about venus project etc. and its well worth reading engles 'Socialism: Utopian & Scientific'. where they argue against the ideas of Own et al. who create a model society and then propagandise for people to join it. instead Marxists get agitate for the workers themselves to create the society.
@Cryptnox Communism was conceived for the labour class; an RBE would eliminate the labour class and automate as many jobs as possible. Even though the end-state of Communism bears superficial similarities to an RBE, the train of thought used to arrive at each solution differs greatly from the other. You do a disservice to understanding the concept of a RBE by insisting on associating it with other models.
@english2me I agree to 99% of RBE. But, in one thing the RBE lacks: How to eliminate capitalism and the Bourgeoisie. They have standing armies, police forces, control over the media and an endless greed for more power and dominance. TZGM says they will just dissappear... I as a communist say, they will never disappear without force! Once the RBE gets to mighty they will just close it with a snap! Prison, disbarnment, mass media dash etc... they will find reasons (Assange!) How to deal with this?
@Cryptnox ¨Once the RBE gets to mighty they will just close it with a snap! Prison, disbarnment, mass media dash etc... they will find reasons (Assange!) How to deal with this?¨
Build a parallel society complete with our own institutions. A collapsing system will have itś participants vote with their feet. That is they will be fleeing to a society that actually does function.
@Cryptnox that is the question we all deal with. Marx never had any answer, but noticed problem - capitalism had to violently take away people's means of own subsitence, to force them to be in the "free market." With new technology (open source) this may become reversible. But your do ask the big question. I think the true solutions will be found in the act of doing.
I guess Dr. Marx wrote this 2000 paged book "Das Kapital" which instantly split the world in 2 big pieces vor nearly 1 century just for fun. Not because it's an anwser to capitalism.
Communism IS scientific. But humanity isn't ready now...
Does it really matter how we call it? We want all the same... a unified world without money, banks, prisons, governemnts under an humane scientific administration.
@english2me thank you. There is no "working class" in a RBE. Totally different foundation. Technology beyond what Marx could imagine has rendered working class largely obsolete. (note: we shouldn't blame Marx or socialists of the 1800s, they were trying to do the best based on their technology, however, all systems are emergent)
@slmrcs by working class marxists mean those who have to survive off of a wage/salary. that exists now just as much as it did in 1848. a lot of what marx says is still relevant. what he didnt see was how adaptable capitalism and the gains made by the working class post WW2 - which created a larger middle class, which seems to confuse some people into thinking wage workers i.e. the working class no longer exist. but as we are seeing now the middle class are starting to shrink again.
@Cryptnox A ressource based economy is indied a final stage communism. but the stereo type image what people now have of communism is fuck up because stalin made it in to a impirialism. the venus project doesn't what to be called a communism because of the image people now have. and they don't what to take credits at all. that would be hypocrit. learn more for jacqeu and its lecrures (on youtube) and you will see. (bad enlish i know)
@Cryptnox there are no stages. It is stupid to believe that you will come in anarchy through stages of stupid communism. Communism and Marx have never spoken about RBE .Communism has laws,money,police,politics...etc, the basic principles of the current system. communism is pretty much like fascism,anyone who disagrees is thrown out of the country or killed... Stalin and Lenin were dictators and masons(Marx was also a mason)and they killed millions of innocent people in the name of communism
@Cryptnox No, because Socialism/Communism doesn't ever mention or acknowledge that we live on a planet with finite resources. Nor did Marx ever imagine how technology could serve humanity in such a matter as this.
@jgroves56 I agree. The problem with Marx isn't really Marx, but Marxists, who made Dad Kapital the new bible. As PJ said, Marx didn't know what to do in terms of solutions, and he was also writing in the 1860's. His "solutions" are based upon slave wagery of the 1860s! Don't blame him for that. Blame followers who refused to apply basic Hegelian dialetics, (a foundation of marism) to technology.
I'm a marxist, I read the whole Kapital and I have to say that The Zeitgeist Movement IS late-stage Marxist socialism. It is of course nothing like the thing we saw in between 1917-1991 (USSR). Zeitgeists program is acctually not that far from P.O.U.M. (Trotsky's international), Spartakusbund (Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Liebknecht), Menscheviks (early Trotsky), and of course the Paris Commune.
Peter Joseph IS a marxist. However it's good that he doesn't say it in public, because it won't give support
@HankTohovic I have been following this movement for almost a year now. I have only recently started studying marxism - as part of my education program in school. I can admit I agree with many of these marxists theorists. However, just becuase I may agree with marxist theory, it does not necesserily mean I agree with socialism or communism. While Peter may use marxist theory to a certian extent, it does not mean he qualifies as a marxist. But interesting post there HankTohovic!
@HankTohovic I would say that if something is true, it will be arrived at over and over again, by different people. PJ may share some ideas with Marx, but arrived at those through different means. In socialism, the RBE is an idealized future, and then they base everything on the "working class." Notice that PJ doesn't ever talk about the "working class" its not in his lexicon (odd to see that in a Marxist).
Peter is an absolute idiot if he thinks communism socialism and capitalism and fascism are the same.He doesn't know the first thing about communism.Therefore Peter is anti-communist.Just because a duality exists doesn't mean one of them is "irrelevant" as an ideology.Human automation will never completely eliminate human labor.Peter is a Liberal compared to a Marxist!!
@mjh012363 Resource based economy == planned economy, which is Marxism and socialism. Sorry but Peter Joseph can claim until the cows come home that a long yell fruit from the tropics with lots of potassium is a carrot, but that doesn't change the fact it s a banana.
Socialism with robots and its never, ever going to work. Mises proved this in 1921 with the socialist calculation problem
@johnycannuk Um..no. Marxism and socialism is where the state owns all the means of production. A resource based economy is one where the means of production are automated and part of the fabric of society and therefore are owned by the people of that society not the state. The state if one even exists would only be responsible for protecting civil and constitutional rights of the people and nothing more. Read a book for fuck sake and get educated!
@mjh012363 Its still a planned economy, directed from the top down. It has never worked. It never will. It is a recipe for shortages, starvation and the destruction of resources.
Spontaneous, voluntary bottom-up emergent economies (free economies) are the most resilient.
There are no amounts of computing power available that can predict demand in a human world. You will NEVER be able to calculate it right.
@mjh012363 Wow, you really don't know what socialism is, do you? How precisely do you centrally plan and manage an economy in the manner in which PW and the Venus Project propose? How do you centrally organize and plan resource allocation amongst the millions that own the property?
Or do you mean to abolish private ownership of property?
What are you going to do about the millions, like me, who would never voluntarily take part in this scheme and want to use money?
@mjh012363 ...I mean if the state doesn't own the means of production, then how, exactly will you get the owners of the means of production to cooperate with your central planning computers? By force? In that case, you are right, it isn't socialism per se, its basically authoritarian fascism.
And seriously, do you really thing "On time delivery" is what I am talking about? How do determine demand in advance? What should the price of a bottle of water be in 3 days or 3 months? Why?
@mjh012363 So there will be no ownership of private property. But its not socialism.
No monetary system and food will be free. But its not socialism.
So there will be no scarcity in this lovely economy? And how will you allocate scarce resources in the absence of a price structure based on a medium of exchange? A central computer?
Bellow all you want, you are describing Soviet style communism, except with more automation and better computers - old, failed central planned socialism.
@johnycannuk And how will you PAY for all this stuff when your job is replaced with a robot? Something has to give. Automation is a fact and will continue to expand and become more ubiquitous. So except it. Society will have to adjust by doing away with the monetary system.
@johnycannuk Also the only way to save the monetary system temporarily is to expand government so people will have jobs and an income to buy stuff. That indeed would be socialism!
@mjh012363 Ah I see. 21 and at university most likely. I also see we agree on a great deal other than this.
Do me a favour, in all seriousness: pick up some basic economics books and give them a read. "Economics in one Lesson" by Henry Hazlit is a classic, but there are many others. Apply those pricniples you hold dear regarding evolution and apply then to eco. Try Michael Shermer's "Mind of the Market" too....
significant recession. Anyway, keep up the good work Zeitgeist! Your cause is our cause, and it will, some day, change the world, because a greedy profit-driven system like capitalism will fall because of its own selfishness and imperialism!
convinced that if we, the internationalist communists, would propagate our ideas under a new name, crest and color and cease using industrial era terms like "proletariat" or "bourgeoisie", we would immediately get so much followers that a new "Red October" could shook the world... Still, that will probably never happen, because, as Fresco correctly pointed out in the movie, political and economical ideologies have a big ego, and refuse to change, so revolution would probably occur only during a
communism, idiotically confusing it with authoritarian socialism and even comparing it with fascism, and because of it the people who do not have strong principles are simply brainwashed with the nonsense of the capitalists and reject socialism and the revolution! Therefore, Zeitgeist should stay Zeitgeist for getting more supporters, (I actually leave in Romania and even here I have a few colleagues at the workplace who watched the last movie... It isn't really unpopular!) and I am pretty
@michaelchristopherj; He probably shouldn't, because not every person on this planet studied Marx and today's perception of communism is not the one of pure stateless and classless communism, but the one of dictatorial socialism practiced under Stalin or Mao, and if he would call himself a communist, people would stop being attracted by his ideas, as they would no longer feel it is a new revolutionary way of thinking! The propaganda in school and in the medias altered the meaning of the word
more about it or send me a private message), but it was still a new style of life and the promise of a better world without wars, racism, nationalism or class antagonism. Our movements should merge if we shall triumph in changing the world comrade, and sooner or later, if you make some research, you will realize it!
@Vict0r1984 He should call himself a communist then. At least then he'd have a following (the Zeitgeist followers are quite few in numbers). Then again, maybe he shouldn't since he's a truther, and would only hurt the movement.
more, or send me a private message), but it was a new way of life and it was simply replicated and a little bit edited by the Zeitgeist! Our movements should merge if we shall triumph in changing the world, comrade, and sooner or later, if you do some research, you will realize it!
days...) This is communism, not the propaganda you were filled with in school and in the media! This is what Marx wanted after a revolution would overthrow the ruling classes, and I recommend you to read "The Communist Manifesto" and see by yourself. Zeitgeist is not something new! Marx's communism was never applied in reality, because the regimes which tried to do it abandoned the revolutionary process and turned in dictatorships with planned economy (see history of the USSR if you want to know
system) so that they would all enjoy the same amount of prosperity and a better relationship with nature could be built, as issues like starvation or unemployment would be already taken care of and eco-friendly reforms could be made for the long-term well being of the masses! The only difference from Zeitgeist is that the communists wanted democratically elected representatives of the people to run "The Internationale" rather than a computer. (they did not know what that was during Edison's
@Excelion333: It IS NOT something new, and a Marxist Leninist Trotskyist like me can guarantee you that any time in a debate! It existed since the 1840s and it just came under a new name now... Marxism and communism are the same, and they both aimed to create a CLASSLESS STATELESS society, in which the means of production would be CENTRALLY PLANNED (any resemblance with the Zeitgeist computer distributing goods worldwide?) and would bring the goods directly to the people, (with no monetary
resources to feed and entertain your population in order to stop international trade - in consequence, the revolution has to be done at world stage, and before that, progressive SOCIALISM, like the one the early USSR applied, must exist as a transitional phase...)
transition from capitalism to communism! The only difference between Marx's vision and Joseph's vision is that the latter one adheres to a technologically planned economy, while the first one adhered to a human planned economy as computers did not exist in the 19th century... Anyway comrade, Zeitgeist is just the final stage of communism extracted from the rest of the revolutionary process (because you can't destroy money before you centralize the economy and you make sure you have the necessary
@michaelchristopherj: Zeitgeist is Technocratic Communism comrade, and despite every one of their denials of supporting political/economical ideologies, the kind of society they support is basically the final stage of Marxism, in which money and the state are no longer needed and an absolutely classless society with a planned economy which serves the interests of the masses of people (by equal goods distribution) is achieved! Zeitgeist IS COMMUNISM, NOT SOCIALISM, because socialism is only the
Since we have never seen a RBE in action people want so badly to try and see what it would look like that they take old ideas and put them together to try and make sense of it, not realizing that an RBE has never been done it is like no system we have ever had. Its not capitalism, marxism, socialism, communism, or any other political system it is a whole new way of living.
@ecologicalguy It's the world as it excists today, that really chains us down, but most people are so used to the excisting system, that they simply don't see it. We are in fact slaves forced to struggle our way through life, pulling enough money out of the system, to get by. If we're that lucky. The really unfortunate ones starve to death in poor countries. And considering the fear of an elite, that, excists in the present world. The rich, the corporations and the governments...
@ecologicalguy The only way to "solve" this, is for the government to pump more money in to the flow of alreeady excisting money, something which "steals" value from the money already in circulation. This makes inflation a constant factor in all economies of money. It's only a question of time before they collapse... And on the way we misuse resources as hell, create social differences, war, and are forced to paticipate in a system that eventually will destroy us if we don't change...
@ecologicalguy The least questioned system in the world, has to be the moneysystem, and people are not aware of the fact that this system corrupts us. Further, it's impossible for a moneybased economy not to collapse over time. It can never work in the longrun, because all money is debt to begin with, and where is the money to cover all the interest if all money is debt? Nowhere.
@ecologicalguy Furthermore, I can understand the comparing to communism, because it looks a bit like it. However, communism used/uses the monetarysystem(Look at China), and they had/have an elite group of people which would not be the case with Venus. The horror seen in the Sovjetunion and Eastern Europe has burnmarked us, and I can understand why people fear change. However, that change will come either we like it or not. We can choose to cooperate, or kill each other...
@ecologicalguy Technology is only meant to control the invorenment and the distribution of goods. No one would be there to tell us what to do, and put chains around our legs. And, without the monetary system, there would not be an incentive for a few people to control the rest of us, because there is nothing to gain and no profits to be made...
@ecologicalguy I would like to apologize for my language, that was uncalled for. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but I hate to break this to you :You cannot build a society considering environment and common good, on opinion. What has to be considered, is the carrying capacity of the Earth. That can only be achieved through science, research and technology. But, this doesn't mean that people are to be controlled, that seems to be the main misunderstanding considering Venus...
@ecologicalguy Why excactly does everyone have to be like PJ in this kind of society? That's just bullshit, and your personal opinion. The resourcebased economy embraces everyone's individuality, no one's gonna force you to be someone else than yourself. And if you think highly of the current system we have, tell that to the nearly 1 billion people who are starving every day...
"If you're against profit, you're a communist" is more than close enough to the truth.
Either you (with your belief system) respect my right to make something and sell it for the price I want, or you don't. If you take this freedom from me saying someone else will rule over what I'm allowed to do with the result from my work, you should not first of all be called a communist, but a contradictorial crackpot, because, implied you're also saying I've got less rights than the man who rules over me.
@AnarchyRight Why should anyone care about your rights? OMG someone is contradictorial. welcome to earth and the universe. i do respect your rights but who the fuck are u to demand that? You don't have to repect his beleif system do you? What is freedom? There's a reason it's called negative liberty. Because it's negative. blah blah blah. You already do have less rights than the man who rules over you. Sorry to be so harsh but i hear this tea party shit every day at my job.
I mean that they haven't actually read any Marx (or at least not much, not all 3 volumes of Capital!) or much of the academic work about him. A lot of stuff that many people in the Zeitgeist movement think that the movement is the very first to advocate is based on far older ideas, many coming from Marx.
All I am saying is that we don't need to be Marxists and believe everything he said in order to take advantage of his often very brilliant analysis and critique of capitalism.
Zeitgeist Movement differs from Marxism in several ways, like lacking a historical materialist approach, a dictatorship of the proletariat and focus on the working class. TZM has more in common with Bakunin/Kropotkin, which is not to say that it's ideas are completely incompatible with Marxism. Quite the contrary, there is a lot of common ground. Unfortunately, Peter and many other TZMers have let their fear of being associated with Marxism stop them from doing actual research. Unscientific, no?
So, you would read books by eustace mullins, peter? what about ben klassen? What about john kaminski? I notice how in all your conspiracy drivel you shy away from the bullseye, that bulls-eye being the jews. The jews are your little conspiracy.
I wish for the Zeitgeist revolution to come into fruition and even if it occurred to some extent, I would love it for that to be so, but there ARE a few issues with it, namely; the Jewry that TZM does not condemn, even though many of the corporations/banks that they condemn are run, controlled, owned etc to some extent by Jews, and also there has been no mention of Israel, which is state which provides the US great partnership. I guess they have made Jewry obvlious
they have made themselves seemingly oblivious to Jewry/Zionism, but perhaps to reel in more members. Perhaps it will be up to people such as ourselves to add our own spin to movements like this when there becomes an opportunity for this to be so to liberate people of the parasitical mindset of said Jews. It is not hard for people to see through their lies.
Also I'd like to know what PJ means when he says Marx never addressed problems of production. Has he read Capital? That book is exclusively about the process of capitalist production. Or does he mean socialist production? Marx never elaborated on the specifics of how socialism would work, because he thought it would be an inevitable result of historical processes. I'm beginning to wonder if PJ has read any Marx besides the Manifesto himself.
Ahahahaha. Marxists think that people need to be sent to reeducation camps so they can be purged of greed? That's the funniest interpretation of Marxism I've heard yet. Marxists believe that the working class should seize the means of production so it can determine its own future. Greed is just an abstract, one-sided concept, and isn't useful for any kind of analysis.
Boy oh boy there never a short supply of fooled and foolish people to be found inhabiting the empire but that's what empires are real good at generating fools it's the stuff that keeps em going.people have been figured out by dictators,tyrants and statesmen for quiet some time. keep em distracted give em misdirection and a whole lot of what they want to here and believe in and boom ya got em mission accomplished.
I am really keen on Zeitgeist Videos, they approach and engagement, but watching the last movie really made me confuse about its relation to communism. The part when Joseph shows how the resources should be calculated and distributed is pretty much interrelated with communism.
I dont care what kind of ist you follow or ism you subscribe to. My question is how far are you willing to go to shape society? If people dont subscribe to your ism, will you force them? Nobody said you had to use money. Its always been your choice, even if alternate choices were limited. The kind of world you want has to be achieved through force which defies your overall objectives. This is why marxist ideas were never actualized. The mechanism to enforce the idea destroys the idea.
Peter, quit acting like it's not communism...it is. The entire goal of communism is to have a resource based economy that creates super abundance and need no money and everyone's happy. This is exactly what you're proposing. I don't see that this takes anyway from your idea though, i think it just means we have to stop being afraid of the word "communism".
Call me crazy but I don't think this guy is smarter than Marx. I'm a socialist and I feel like his movement is essentially socialism without as much influence or likelihood.
@michaelchristopherj It has similarities to Socialism, but the notion of a Resource Based Economy, supported through technological means, is something new which Marx could not have anticipated in his time. We're proposing the abolition of the labor class, -- not the idealization of the labor class, as in Marxism.
@Silenus6 Dude, it is communism. Go look it up! The utopian idea of Marx was that there would be such a super abundance that we would be allow to distribute everything evenly to everyone and live in a resource based economy. This takes nothing away from Zeitgeist's idea though...it just means we need to quit being so God damn afraid of the word "communism".
Well that dose not say much, because Marx was a really really smart guy. And second of all he is dead and have been for a while, so comparing those two who lived in totally different societies, ages and countries would be really complex :)
@michaelchristopherj The absolute truth is the interdependence of life, the entanglement of all and everything in the language of quantum physics. Capitalism is the historic process of PRIVATE PROPERTY RELATIONSHIP OF ALIENATION,EXPLOITATION AND SUFFERING OF HUMANITY in a modality of commodity production with the sole motive of profit . A WORLD MARKET MECHANISM of ARTIFICIAL SCARCITY,, DISTORTION AND DESTRUCTION. The emergent realisation of limits and obsolete nature of Capitalism is on.
@michaelchristopherj It's not about being smarter. Marx was one of the best thinkers of humanity, no doubt at all. Nowadays, we can learn from him and "stand in his shoulders" and be able to look even farther. Times change, everything changes, our toughts and ideas must also change, adapt, improve, always.
Peter Joseph courageously embodies the humanistic / scientific enlightenment of the 21 st century. He has grasped the very inner structrual contradictions of the CAPITALIST/MONETARY system and his revolutionary call for a WORLD OF COOPERATION FOR OUR COMMON NEEDS AND WELL BEING should be the CONSTITUTION OF A NEW HUMANI CIVIILISATION.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Peter Joseph is a communist peter joseph wants to force people to be his follower i hope he dies he use to be ok but when addendum came out he pissed me off
why must everyone bicker over the sign above the door.there is no "one ultimate" government plan. for while one man builds, another makes it his life work to tear it down and replace with his ideals.. here's my ? , are you on the side of greed,which breeds corruption? or are you on the side of love, which breeds compassion? a world free if 'isms is a world i would love to live in !
Bullshit. He's not even scratching marxism when he states that Marx ('and his disciples') stated that people had to re-educated in camps... Where'd he said that? A load of bullocks that has merely been paraphrased from rabiate anti-communists that hardly tried to understand the darn thing.
The point is rather, that the material conditions and interest conflicts will lead the masses into revolutionary struggles, which then, according to Lenin, must be organized (not herded) by the leadership
@ammaroo1975 PROVE IT.. Because i doubt you can.. your nothing more them a slave monkey getting butt fucked my the system and except your butt fucked life as a slave and you wont everyone else to do the same.. your a fool..if you can see the suffering of the people.. fresh out of college in New York i was laid off. i had a great resume and the skills to do any job in my field but guess what happen nothing after searching everyday i found that every one i went to wasen't hireing
Maybe you can'y get a job because you are a total douchebag loser. Did you think of that? People don't want to work with you because they don't want to be around you.
Just because you went to college and have a sweet resume doesn't mean you are entitled to a job. Somebody has to actually see some value in your employment and thats not going to happen if you have a rotten personality.
The Zeitgeist Movement isn't going to solve that fact that you are a loser and no one likes you.
@ammaroo1975 please, then that must mean every one around me were douche bag loser to right... all the 100s of people in the same position i was in. oh yeah that really a smart observation of this depression... why didn't i see that before like you do... umm you know why because i'm not a total fucking idiot..
@ammaroo1975 So not only did this system that you seem to love so much put me and people like me behind on replaying our school loans.. in place us in you guessed it "Debt" and since there was no jobs the Interest on those loans just kept growing... so you know what this System is WORSE AND STUPID PEOPLE LIKE YOU WANTING TO KEEP THOSE THAT ARE HARMING YOU AS WELL IN POWER IS A MENTAL ILLNESS YOU MUST HAVE.. Your as corrupted as this system.. Go back to doing nothing.. and thinking of yourself
That communism is bad is a conclusion I 'arrived' at using the best information available at the time, using scientific principals.
In science, theories are proved/disproved by experiments/observation. Communism was the social experiment of the 20th century and it led to mass starvation, suffering, murder and death proving that it was a false theory; impossible to implement.
To say that communism is bad, is only using 'the application of The Scientific Method for social concern'
@ammaroo1975 First of all, what does the Scientific Method have to do with political philosophy? Different sciences, different tongue, different conclusions, as simple as that. In addition, without having any intention to justify Soviet Union's methods (I'm an anarchist, not a communist or whatever), you really miss the historical truth: In Soviet Union there was no starvation, because citizens were obliged to work for the state. Thus, there was no unemployment.
@ammaroo1975 You also mention suffering,murder and death. Right, USSR was a totalitarian state. But the same goes for ALL capitalist states, and generally every state in the world. We still believe in theories that propose authority and power, as necessary means of social cohesion. Forget that crap! In a sense, capitalism has failed, because it gives no better life than any other statist theory. You have to be a bourgeois, believing in the God of money, to enjoy yourself because of Capitalism.
@AtheismCentral Could be a different party opposed to the communist party? No. And yes, Stalin did a LOT of totalitarian things, first of all, the fusion of Legislative, Executive and Juditial powers IS TOTALITARISM. And that was wath exactly the URSS did. Just ask the people in the Gulag if it was not a totalitarian system. I am pretty surprised that the people who defend the Soviet Union never lived in it... ;)
@ammaroo1975 lol, communism faild because of the oppresion of capitalism in other countries. That is widely known. Real communism hasn't been applied yet, because the whole world should be communist to prove it
Communism by definition, according to Frederick Engels is the doctrine of the condition of the liberation of the proletariat.Or in a word, the abolishment of private property.Characteristics of a communist society include the ownership of the means of production or capital to the working-class, the producers of all value.
@niriop just because you remove the profit system you have communism? thats a false dilemma sorry. there are other things than capitalism and communism. think outside the box buddy.
@ApocAlypse6275 The definition of communism is a society devoid of a state or a monetary system which operates with a gift economy, where all industry is owned in common and any economic activity is done as "free play", giving people more time to pursue their personal hobbies and desires.
The VP is a complete bastardization of the above ideal.
Marx's theory of alienation - the separation of things that naturally belong together & the social alienation of people from aspects of their human nature.
False consciousness - The Marxist belief is this occurs due to the elites control over the people, which the mass population do not know they are under.
Removal of religion is a demand for truth - Marxist
Pure communism, the final stage of Marxism when the state is no more and we are free from wages and labour.
I can't understand why everyones got beef with the VP and Peter. So, he's a thinker. He has provided a documentary on problems in society (which, you can't deny are true and factually based) and provided his OPINIONS on how to overcome/improve them. He makes a great point about 'sources' and 'evidence' here. Intelligent bloke. I like his views on environmentalism and capitalism on our planet but I disagree with his theories on 9/11 conspiracy (i hate that word) and some parts of the VP. So what?
uuughh peter joseph, what a bs artist. He claims people are the product of their cultural conditioning. He really wants to think of humans as organic machines who shuffle to and fro based on cultural programming.Peter looks at you and says everything you think, want or not want is not your own but programmed into you. No wonder he thinks a supercomputer should be running our lives. If this logic is true then surely his own desire to change the economy is not his own but a mere product of culture
@Iseeyoursoul it is a freaking fact bro. we get told what to do and not to do... we learn from others.. it does not mean that we cant change, but if we can change.. why cant we take a look at the world and ask ourselves, what the fuck is wrong with this shiit! just the fact that we have more poor people than wealthy people is a fail in my book. PJ has never said that it can be perfect, BUT it can get so much better than this shit. WE have failed as a human race...
@mastereismaname EVERYONE should think that's a fail. And, you are absolutely correct, Peter never said that it's going to be perfect. Keep preaching!
@Iseeyoursoul OH I found another ad hominem. this is becoming a game of tallying of how many of these I can find :D do you have rational proof to shore up your hypothesis?
I agree with his statement but this was an obvious attempt to dissociate the movement from Marxism as he believes the label comes with negative connotations which would negatively affect the PR wing of the venus project. The similarities between the two in term's of implementation are there and the question deserves an intellectual and non-evasive response.
@ecologicalguy RBE has nothing to do with Utopian ideals, because the whole notion of Utopia isn't desirable, or achievable. You would have to have a fixed static state society, and all development of humankind would have to stop at a certain point in time. Utopia is merely a fantasy. Now, there's no way of knowing if the RBE ever will be a reality, but it's a bold new direction with no final frontiers...
Mascis77J 1 month ago
425 948 6787 DIVIDE AND CONQUER 11202 29TH DR SE EVERETT WA 98203 THEYRE GOING TO LOCK ME UP I JUST WANT TO HELP THE KIDS I AM QUITE FLAWED AND I AM HURT
undeadpumpkinhead 1 month ago
Marx explains: "[Critical-Utopian Socialists and Communists] reject all political, and especially all revolutionary action; they wish to attain their ends by peaceful means, necessarily doomed to failure, and by the force of example, to pave the way for the new social Gospel."
And: "The charges against Communism made from a religious, a philosophical and, generally, from an ideological standpoint, are not deserving of serious examination."
His views on the family/marriage are exaggerated, too.
amamerc 1 month ago
@amamerc Marx openly discussed Satan in his early poems, too, which is somewhat worrisome. Gary North also wrote an essay about Marx's ironic inability to manage himself financially. Finally, this is what annoys right-wingers: PJ seems to say that capitalism naturally leads to leftist/corrupt/Fed-monopolized system. The system isn't just capitalist: there are too many other negative influences to list. Still, PJ is right about some things, but his generalization in this vid is unsatisfactory.
amamerc 1 month ago
@amamerc Capitalism encourages corruption - personal corruption, or corporate corruption. That is PJ's point, and it seems valid based upon empirical evidence. Marx lived in poverty working to help the oppressed slave wage workers of the early industrial revolution. Why is it that people know nothing about what Marx wrote, but are experts in his personal life for ad hominem attack? no the system isn't just capitalist, it's the dialectical process of capitalism destroying itself.
slmrcs 4 weeks ago
@slmrcs Supposedly, the new NDAA bill decriminalizes sodomy and sex with animals. Hard to believe. Point is, I utterly fail to see how TZM could in a million years be implemented by the government of the US. I think it can only develop in a non-coercive atmosphere. TZM is supposedly libertarian. But I will completely ignore IF it ever calls for big government to rob the people. This is why I tolerate TZM and not Marxism. Yes, I read what Marx wrote, and some of it is utterly sickening.
amamerc 4 weeks ago
What matters?.. huh?.. In regarding a social structure. The level of health within ALL systems whether artificial or natural. That's what matters. The question isn't "Ins't that marxism?"... It's irrelevant! The question is "Does it work?"!
petterthowsen92 1 month ago 2
@petterthowsen92 Exactly. Great point.
Strangepete 1 month ago
Everyone stop the words and labels! deal with the facts regarding humanity and earth.
petterthowsen92 1 month ago
Anyone know where I can get the soundtrack for the Zeitgeist movies?
Music is brilliant
corporateCoffee 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
vasgeorge you are a dumbass
yooo711 2 months ago
I think the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist movement confuse Marxism. Resource-based economy is Marxism (just without the technology aspect which I must say can definitely be added to Marxism as it does not contradict it). I believe they confuse it with Stalinism. The Trotskyist/Internationalist perspective i.e. real Marxism is a resource-based economy. This confusion must be cleared up. It would be a waste of an intellectual to loose Jacque Fresco to this confusion.
RafaelItzhakov 2 months ago
@RafaelItzhakov Jacque Fresco, doesn't understand Marxism. We just have to accept the good that comes him and excuse areas of ignorance (as with anyone). The socialist tradition is not based on resources, but on the "working class." This is a failure/limitation, with a classless society based on resources, perhaps an ideal, but not for today. Fresco bypasses all of that. Frensco, unlike Marx, isn' t based in 1860s technology. technology had made the working class obsolete
slmrcs 4 weeks ago
@slmrcs Yes but also interestingly enough, much of the zeitgeist movement and the venus project iis based on conspiracy and not a scientific method as utilized by Marx.
RafaelItzhakov 4 weeks ago
@RafaelItzhakov Just what part of the venus project or zeitgeist movement is based on conspiracy?
TheSgtMagic 3 weeks ago
seriously? don't get why people have to shout 'he's a marxist!' he's a socialist! that is garbage and a distraction. those are just words sheeple have been trained to get defensive against. what is important is for people to understand what hes surfacing to the public mind... he's trying to help people to understand
NDW21x 2 months ago
@NDW21x what fucking difference does it make! Its all collectivism! smae nasty control freaks at the top. These very cretins then murder ppl who dont wnat tyheir system as seen in Russia - over 60 MILLION killed for oppsoing communism! Wake up ppl. STOP promoting ur own enslavement u fools
Badwolf182 2 months ago
@Badwolf182 read you fool
ccraigd89 2 months ago
@ccraigd89 Grow a brain you fool!!!
Badwolf182 2 months ago
@Badwolf182 the USA invaded several countries under false pretense and killed millions of innocent people in the name of freedom and democracy... So with your logic freedom and democracy will result in war and mass murder...
z3r0Projects 2 months ago
@Badwolf182 The family is a collective. The army is a collective. there needs to be a healthy balance between collective and individual.
slmrcs 4 weeks ago
I don't think its so much that we're hiding the fact that communism, by a certain definition, is exactly what the Venus Project entails. I don't think that discussion has come up so much. Its more that people get scared because when they think of communism they think of contemporary or historical examples such as Soviet Russia. But the Venus Project is NOTHING LIKE anything that has come before, because it transcends our current monetary system and has a completely different outlook.
joob44 3 months ago
There's nothing to be afraid of if we can get the world to agree. The incentive for power and corruption would disappear. Those who sought would be marginalized and seen as mad men.
joob44 3 months ago
so far nothing i read about capitalism convinced me..
khoroshoorange 3 months ago
i for one think that socialism/communism can work and is a system we should definitely aim for, since it seems like a more human and justifiable system to me than capitalism. and capitalism doesnt strike me as sth that will ever work without its exploitative "side effects".
khoroshoorange 3 months ago
@khoroshoorange the only problem with communism is the disagreement on how to achieve it.
ccraigd89 2 months ago
i think reaching "final-stage-communism" is the goal of every socialist country. every real socialist country that is.
khoroshoorange 3 months ago
@khoroshoorange Yes, but they must move past their ideology of the "working class" we are not the 99%, we are the 100%, and I believe that was Marx's greatest mistake.
slmrcs 4 weeks ago
china isnt a communist country. the soviet union was never a communist country.
marx wouldnt have stood for the soviet union or china.
even lenin called the political system of the soviet union state capitalism.
real socialism is nothing but the extension of democracy to your workplace where the money you generate flows into society and is not taken away by privat hands. where the people control the means of production. communism is a classless, stateless country with a ressource based economy.
khoroshoorange 3 months ago
Comment removed
khoroshoorange 3 months ago
I'm a communist and I studied all important books about socialism/communism.
And I must say: Ressource based economy IS final-stage-communism.
I don't like how the Venus Project hide this fact. They take all the credit for themselves.
Cryptnox 3 months ago 2
@Cryptnox you mean socialism/communism is about Automation of Labor, use of Scientific Method for Social Concern, and a Cybernetic/Systemic understanding of our Planet? Thats awesome
gabssnake 3 months ago
@gabssnake No I mean "just" the elimination of money, proverty, banks, government, religion, advertising, companies etc... and automation isn't Venus Project Exclusive, it is an normal development in EVERY System. Communism can also have automation of labour, and Scientific Method for Social Concern? Communism is science par excellence. Nobody could ever debunk Marx in the last 150 years.
Get your facts right, kid. You obviously know nothing about communism.
Cryptnox 3 months ago
@Cryptnox Take it easy. If you are for overcoming money, the market system, property, government, religion, and adopting automation to it's full capacity, with a systemic understanding of our planet and use of scientific method for social concern, hey! I'm a friend! Call it how you like, give credit how you like, I'm in!
gabssnake 2 days ago
@gabssnake As someone who in involved with TZM, and has read Marx, I believe you have pointed out the main reasons why TZM is not Marxism. Marx wrote volumes about capitalism, not how to created a better world based on future technology. I actually think there is much value in marx's work, but it's not even same topic as a RBE!
slmrcs 4 weeks ago
@slmrcs one more thing! its not just reading marx that makes you a marxist its using his methods i.e. scientific socialism that makes you a marxist. marxists have a lot to say about venus project etc. and its well worth reading engles 'Socialism: Utopian & Scientific'. where they argue against the ideas of Own et al. who create a model society and then propagandise for people to join it. instead Marxists get agitate for the workers themselves to create the society.
ADProtty 3 weeks ago
@Cryptnox Communism was conceived for the labour class; an RBE would eliminate the labour class and automate as many jobs as possible. Even though the end-state of Communism bears superficial similarities to an RBE, the train of thought used to arrive at each solution differs greatly from the other. You do a disservice to understanding the concept of a RBE by insisting on associating it with other models.
english2me 2 months ago
@english2me I agree to 99% of RBE. But, in one thing the RBE lacks: How to eliminate capitalism and the Bourgeoisie. They have standing armies, police forces, control over the media and an endless greed for more power and dominance. TZGM says they will just dissappear... I as a communist say, they will never disappear without force! Once the RBE gets to mighty they will just close it with a snap! Prison, disbarnment, mass media dash etc... they will find reasons (Assange!) How to deal with this?
Cryptnox 2 months ago
@Cryptnox ¨Once the RBE gets to mighty they will just close it with a snap! Prison, disbarnment, mass media dash etc... they will find reasons (Assange!) How to deal with this?¨
Build a parallel society complete with our own institutions. A collapsing system will have itś participants vote with their feet. That is they will be fleeing to a society that actually does function.
technatezin 1 month ago
@Cryptnox that is the question we all deal with. Marx never had any answer, but noticed problem - capitalism had to violently take away people's means of own subsitence, to force them to be in the "free market." With new technology (open source) this may become reversible. But your do ask the big question. I think the true solutions will be found in the act of doing.
slmrcs 4 weeks ago
@slmrcs "Marx never found a true answer..."
I guess Dr. Marx wrote this 2000 paged book "Das Kapital" which instantly split the world in 2 big pieces vor nearly 1 century just for fun. Not because it's an anwser to capitalism.
Communism IS scientific. But humanity isn't ready now...
Does it really matter how we call it? We want all the same... a unified world without money, banks, prisons, governemnts under an humane scientific administration.
Cryptnox 4 weeks ago
@english2me thank you. There is no "working class" in a RBE. Totally different foundation. Technology beyond what Marx could imagine has rendered working class largely obsolete. (note: we shouldn't blame Marx or socialists of the 1800s, they were trying to do the best based on their technology, however, all systems are emergent)
slmrcs 4 weeks ago
@slmrcs by working class marxists mean those who have to survive off of a wage/salary. that exists now just as much as it did in 1848. a lot of what marx says is still relevant. what he didnt see was how adaptable capitalism and the gains made by the working class post WW2 - which created a larger middle class, which seems to confuse some people into thinking wage workers i.e. the working class no longer exist. but as we are seeing now the middle class are starting to shrink again.
ADProtty 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
hytackerable 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Cryptnox A ressource based economy is indied a final stage communism. but the stereo type image what people now have of communism is fuck up because stalin made it in to a impirialism. the venus project doesn't what to be called a communism because of the image people now have. and they don't what to take credits at all. that would be hypocrit. learn more for jacqeu and its lecrures (on youtube) and you will see. (bad enlish i know)
hytackerable 2 months ago
@Cryptnox there are no stages. It is stupid to believe that you will come in anarchy through stages of stupid communism. Communism and Marx have never spoken about RBE .Communism has laws,money,police,politics...etc, the basic principles of the current system. communism is pretty much like fascism,anyone who disagrees is thrown out of the country or killed... Stalin and Lenin were dictators and masons(Marx was also a mason)and they killed millions of innocent people in the name of communism
vasgeorge 2 months ago 2
@Cryptnox No, because Socialism/Communism doesn't ever mention or acknowledge that we live on a planet with finite resources. Nor did Marx ever imagine how technology could serve humanity in such a matter as this.
jgroves56 1 month ago 9
@jgroves56 lol
Nothiean 1 month ago
@jgroves56 I agree. The problem with Marx isn't really Marx, but Marxists, who made Dad Kapital the new bible. As PJ said, Marx didn't know what to do in terms of solutions, and he was also writing in the 1860's. His "solutions" are based upon slave wagery of the 1860s! Don't blame him for that. Blame followers who refused to apply basic Hegelian dialetics, (a foundation of marism) to technology.
slmrcs 4 weeks ago
Venus project is very similar to late stage Communism.
milanimilivoj 3 months ago
I'm a marxist, I read the whole Kapital and I have to say that The Zeitgeist Movement IS late-stage Marxist socialism. It is of course nothing like the thing we saw in between 1917-1991 (USSR). Zeitgeists program is acctually not that far from P.O.U.M. (Trotsky's international), Spartakusbund (Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Liebknecht), Menscheviks (early Trotsky), and of course the Paris Commune.
Peter Joseph IS a marxist. However it's good that he doesn't say it in public, because it won't give support
HankTohovic 4 months ago 4
@HankTohovic I have been following this movement for almost a year now. I have only recently started studying marxism - as part of my education program in school. I can admit I agree with many of these marxists theorists. However, just becuase I may agree with marxist theory, it does not necesserily mean I agree with socialism or communism. While Peter may use marxist theory to a certian extent, it does not mean he qualifies as a marxist. But interesting post there HankTohovic!
markusboyd3 4 months ago
@HankTohovic
How do you know hes a marxistÉ Maybe he is just speaking of a new idea and a new concept. Fuck Marxism its just as distorted as Capitalism.
Reido2828 1 month ago
@HankTohovic I would say that if something is true, it will be arrived at over and over again, by different people. PJ may share some ideas with Marx, but arrived at those through different means. In socialism, the RBE is an idealized future, and then they base everything on the "working class." Notice that PJ doesn't ever talk about the "working class" its not in his lexicon (odd to see that in a Marxist).
slmrcs 4 weeks ago
Peter is an absolute idiot if he thinks communism socialism and capitalism and fascism are the same.He doesn't know the first thing about communism.Therefore Peter is anti-communist.Just because a duality exists doesn't mean one of them is "irrelevant" as an ideology.Human automation will never completely eliminate human labor.Peter is a Liberal compared to a Marxist!!
rickdelagarza 4 months ago
Capitalism = Market based economy
Communism = Labor based economy
We're not either. We are for a Resource based economy.
mjh012363 5 months ago
@mjh012363 Resource based economy == planned economy, which is Marxism and socialism. Sorry but Peter Joseph can claim until the cows come home that a long yell fruit from the tropics with lots of potassium is a carrot, but that doesn't change the fact it s a banana.
Socialism with robots and its never, ever going to work. Mises proved this in 1921 with the socialist calculation problem
johnycannuk 4 months ago
@johnycannuk Um..no. Marxism and socialism is where the state owns all the means of production. A resource based economy is one where the means of production are automated and part of the fabric of society and therefore are owned by the people of that society not the state. The state if one even exists would only be responsible for protecting civil and constitutional rights of the people and nothing more. Read a book for fuck sake and get educated!
mjh012363 4 months ago
@mjh012363 Its still a planned economy, directed from the top down. It has never worked. It never will. It is a recipe for shortages, starvation and the destruction of resources.
Spontaneous, voluntary bottom-up emergent economies (free economies) are the most resilient.
There are no amounts of computing power available that can predict demand in a human world. You will NEVER be able to calculate it right.
Mises got this in 1921 and in 1991.
Its still socialism with robots...
johnycannuk 4 months ago
@johnycannuk "Its still a planned economy.."
And? If the state doesn't own the means of production it still isn't Socialism.
"Spontaneous, voluntary bottom-up emergent economies (free economies) are the most resilient."
So is evolution by natural selection. But we still don't allow the strong to murder the weak.
"There are no amounts of computing power available that can predict demand in a human world."
They do this all the time. Been doing it for 20 years. It's called "On time delivery".
mjh012363 4 months ago
@mjh012363 Wow, you really don't know what socialism is, do you? How precisely do you centrally plan and manage an economy in the manner in which PW and the Venus Project propose? How do you centrally organize and plan resource allocation amongst the millions that own the property?
Or do you mean to abolish private ownership of property?
What are you going to do about the millions, like me, who would never voluntarily take part in this scheme and want to use money?
Ya, nothing like socialism
johnycannuk 4 months ago
@mjh012363 ...I mean if the state doesn't own the means of production, then how, exactly will you get the owners of the means of production to cooperate with your central planning computers? By force? In that case, you are right, it isn't socialism per se, its basically authoritarian fascism.
And seriously, do you really thing "On time delivery" is what I am talking about? How do determine demand in advance? What should the price of a bottle of water be in 3 days or 3 months? Why?
johnycannuk 4 months ago
@johnycannuk "How do you centrally organize and plan resource allocation amongst the millions that own the property?"
And how will property be of any relevence if there is no longer money? Sure you'll own it but without money how would you sell it?
"What are you going to do about the millions, like me, who would never voluntarily take part in this scheme and want to use money?"
That's fine. I sure would like to see how people like you would pay for food when it's free as it would be in a RBS.
mjh012363 4 months ago
@mjh012363 So there will be no ownership of private property. But its not socialism.
No monetary system and food will be free. But its not socialism.
So there will be no scarcity in this lovely economy? And how will you allocate scarce resources in the absence of a price structure based on a medium of exchange? A central computer?
Bellow all you want, you are describing Soviet style communism, except with more automation and better computers - old, failed central planned socialism.
johnycannuk 4 months ago
@johnycannuk And how will you PAY for all this stuff when your job is replaced with a robot? Something has to give. Automation is a fact and will continue to expand and become more ubiquitous. So except it. Society will have to adjust by doing away with the monetary system.
mjh012363 4 months ago
@johnycannuk Also the only way to save the monetary system temporarily is to expand government so people will have jobs and an income to buy stuff. That indeed would be socialism!
mjh012363 4 months ago
@mjh012363 I would recommend a introductory course in economics before you make yourself look even more foolish.
johnycannuk 4 months ago
@mjh012363 Ah I see. 21 and at university most likely. I also see we agree on a great deal other than this.
Do me a favour, in all seriousness: pick up some basic economics books and give them a read. "Economics in one Lesson" by Henry Hazlit is a classic, but there are many others. Apply those pricniples you hold dear regarding evolution and apply then to eco. Try Michael Shermer's "Mind of the Market" too....
johnycannuk 4 months ago
Comment removed
mjh012363 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@johnycannuk Actually I'm 48. Maybe you should pick up a book on automation.
mjh012363 4 months ago
@mjh012363 And a book or 2 on robotics and computers.
mjh012363 4 months ago
significant recession. Anyway, keep up the good work Zeitgeist! Your cause is our cause, and it will, some day, change the world, because a greedy profit-driven system like capitalism will fall because of its own selfishness and imperialism!
Vict0r1984 5 months ago 2
convinced that if we, the internationalist communists, would propagate our ideas under a new name, crest and color and cease using industrial era terms like "proletariat" or "bourgeoisie", we would immediately get so much followers that a new "Red October" could shook the world... Still, that will probably never happen, because, as Fresco correctly pointed out in the movie, political and economical ideologies have a big ego, and refuse to change, so revolution would probably occur only during a
Vict0r1984 5 months ago
communism, idiotically confusing it with authoritarian socialism and even comparing it with fascism, and because of it the people who do not have strong principles are simply brainwashed with the nonsense of the capitalists and reject socialism and the revolution! Therefore, Zeitgeist should stay Zeitgeist for getting more supporters, (I actually leave in Romania and even here I have a few colleagues at the workplace who watched the last movie... It isn't really unpopular!) and I am pretty
Vict0r1984 5 months ago
@michaelchristopherj; He probably shouldn't, because not every person on this planet studied Marx and today's perception of communism is not the one of pure stateless and classless communism, but the one of dictatorial socialism practiced under Stalin or Mao, and if he would call himself a communist, people would stop being attracted by his ideas, as they would no longer feel it is a new revolutionary way of thinking! The propaganda in school and in the medias altered the meaning of the word
Vict0r1984 5 months ago
more about it or send me a private message), but it was still a new style of life and the promise of a better world without wars, racism, nationalism or class antagonism. Our movements should merge if we shall triumph in changing the world comrade, and sooner or later, if you make some research, you will realize it!
Vict0r1984 5 months ago
@Vict0r1984 He should call himself a communist then. At least then he'd have a following (the Zeitgeist followers are quite few in numbers). Then again, maybe he shouldn't since he's a truther, and would only hurt the movement.
michaelchristopherj 5 months ago
more, or send me a private message), but it was a new way of life and it was simply replicated and a little bit edited by the Zeitgeist! Our movements should merge if we shall triumph in changing the world, comrade, and sooner or later, if you do some research, you will realize it!
Vict0r1984 5 months ago
days...) This is communism, not the propaganda you were filled with in school and in the media! This is what Marx wanted after a revolution would overthrow the ruling classes, and I recommend you to read "The Communist Manifesto" and see by yourself. Zeitgeist is not something new! Marx's communism was never applied in reality, because the regimes which tried to do it abandoned the revolutionary process and turned in dictatorships with planned economy (see history of the USSR if you want to know
Vict0r1984 5 months ago
system) so that they would all enjoy the same amount of prosperity and a better relationship with nature could be built, as issues like starvation or unemployment would be already taken care of and eco-friendly reforms could be made for the long-term well being of the masses! The only difference from Zeitgeist is that the communists wanted democratically elected representatives of the people to run "The Internationale" rather than a computer. (they did not know what that was during Edison's
Vict0r1984 5 months ago
@Excelion333: It IS NOT something new, and a Marxist Leninist Trotskyist like me can guarantee you that any time in a debate! It existed since the 1840s and it just came under a new name now... Marxism and communism are the same, and they both aimed to create a CLASSLESS STATELESS society, in which the means of production would be CENTRALLY PLANNED (any resemblance with the Zeitgeist computer distributing goods worldwide?) and would bring the goods directly to the people, (with no monetary
Vict0r1984 5 months ago
resources to feed and entertain your population in order to stop international trade - in consequence, the revolution has to be done at world stage, and before that, progressive SOCIALISM, like the one the early USSR applied, must exist as a transitional phase...)
Vict0r1984 5 months ago
transition from capitalism to communism! The only difference between Marx's vision and Joseph's vision is that the latter one adheres to a technologically planned economy, while the first one adhered to a human planned economy as computers did not exist in the 19th century... Anyway comrade, Zeitgeist is just the final stage of communism extracted from the rest of the revolutionary process (because you can't destroy money before you centralize the economy and you make sure you have the necessary
Vict0r1984 5 months ago
@michaelchristopherj: Zeitgeist is Technocratic Communism comrade, and despite every one of their denials of supporting political/economical ideologies, the kind of society they support is basically the final stage of Marxism, in which money and the state are no longer needed and an absolutely classless society with a planned economy which serves the interests of the masses of people (by equal goods distribution) is achieved! Zeitgeist IS COMMUNISM, NOT SOCIALISM, because socialism is only the
Vict0r1984 5 months ago
Since we have never seen a RBE in action people want so badly to try and see what it would look like that they take old ideas and put them together to try and make sense of it, not realizing that an RBE has never been done it is like no system we have ever had. Its not capitalism, marxism, socialism, communism, or any other political system it is a whole new way of living.
Excelion333 5 months ago
@FatJesusSD Very relevant information.
Cult has been exposed! We got you figured out, evildoers of mad science!
Our "insert labels and socially-conditioned beliefs" will save us.
somebungholio 5 months ago
Well said Peter, well said
gocorinthian 5 months ago
@ecologicalguy It's the world as it excists today, that really chains us down, but most people are so used to the excisting system, that they simply don't see it. We are in fact slaves forced to struggle our way through life, pulling enough money out of the system, to get by. If we're that lucky. The really unfortunate ones starve to death in poor countries. And considering the fear of an elite, that, excists in the present world. The rich, the corporations and the governments...
Mascis77J 5 months ago
@ecologicalguy The only way to "solve" this, is for the government to pump more money in to the flow of alreeady excisting money, something which "steals" value from the money already in circulation. This makes inflation a constant factor in all economies of money. It's only a question of time before they collapse... And on the way we misuse resources as hell, create social differences, war, and are forced to paticipate in a system that eventually will destroy us if we don't change...
Mascis77J 5 months ago
@ecologicalguy The least questioned system in the world, has to be the moneysystem, and people are not aware of the fact that this system corrupts us. Further, it's impossible for a moneybased economy not to collapse over time. It can never work in the longrun, because all money is debt to begin with, and where is the money to cover all the interest if all money is debt? Nowhere.
Mascis77J 5 months ago
@ecologicalguy Furthermore, I can understand the comparing to communism, because it looks a bit like it. However, communism used/uses the monetarysystem(Look at China), and they had/have an elite group of people which would not be the case with Venus. The horror seen in the Sovjetunion and Eastern Europe has burnmarked us, and I can understand why people fear change. However, that change will come either we like it or not. We can choose to cooperate, or kill each other...
Mascis77J 5 months ago
@ecologicalguy Technology is only meant to control the invorenment and the distribution of goods. No one would be there to tell us what to do, and put chains around our legs. And, without the monetary system, there would not be an incentive for a few people to control the rest of us, because there is nothing to gain and no profits to be made...
Mascis77J 5 months ago
@ecologicalguy I would like to apologize for my language, that was uncalled for. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but I hate to break this to you :You cannot build a society considering environment and common good, on opinion. What has to be considered, is the carrying capacity of the Earth. That can only be achieved through science, research and technology. But, this doesn't mean that people are to be controlled, that seems to be the main misunderstanding considering Venus...
Mascis77J 5 months ago
@ecologicalguy Why excactly does everyone have to be like PJ in this kind of society? That's just bullshit, and your personal opinion. The resourcebased economy embraces everyone's individuality, no one's gonna force you to be someone else than yourself. And if you think highly of the current system we have, tell that to the nearly 1 billion people who are starving every day...
Mascis77J 5 months ago
@ecologicalguy "as pure as him."
If he's pure, I'm the King of England.
jeffiek 5 months ago
"If you're against profit, you're a communist" is more than close enough to the truth.
Either you (with your belief system) respect my right to make something and sell it for the price I want, or you don't. If you take this freedom from me saying someone else will rule over what I'm allowed to do with the result from my work, you should not first of all be called a communist, but a contradictorial crackpot, because, implied you're also saying I've got less rights than the man who rules over me.
AnarchyRight 5 months ago
@AnarchyRight Why should anyone care about your rights? OMG someone is contradictorial. welcome to earth and the universe. i do respect your rights but who the fuck are u to demand that? You don't have to repect his beleif system do you? What is freedom? There's a reason it's called negative liberty. Because it's negative. blah blah blah. You already do have less rights than the man who rules over you. Sorry to be so harsh but i hear this tea party shit every day at my job.
mcmcerson 5 months ago
I mean that they haven't actually read any Marx (or at least not much, not all 3 volumes of Capital!) or much of the academic work about him. A lot of stuff that many people in the Zeitgeist movement think that the movement is the very first to advocate is based on far older ideas, many coming from Marx.
All I am saying is that we don't need to be Marxists and believe everything he said in order to take advantage of his often very brilliant analysis and critique of capitalism.
derapfelstrudel 6 months ago
Zeitgeist Movement differs from Marxism in several ways, like lacking a historical materialist approach, a dictatorship of the proletariat and focus on the working class. TZM has more in common with Bakunin/Kropotkin, which is not to say that it's ideas are completely incompatible with Marxism. Quite the contrary, there is a lot of common ground. Unfortunately, Peter and many other TZMers have let their fear of being associated with Marxism stop them from doing actual research. Unscientific, no?
derapfelstrudel 6 months ago 2
Comment removed
Cryptnox 6 months ago
So, you would read books by eustace mullins, peter? what about ben klassen? What about john kaminski? I notice how in all your conspiracy drivel you shy away from the bullseye, that bulls-eye being the jews. The jews are your little conspiracy.
kermitcintronsucks 6 months ago
@kermitcintronsucks
I wish for the Zeitgeist revolution to come into fruition and even if it occurred to some extent, I would love it for that to be so, but there ARE a few issues with it, namely; the Jewry that TZM does not condemn, even though many of the corporations/banks that they condemn are run, controlled, owned etc to some extent by Jews, and also there has been no mention of Israel, which is state which provides the US great partnership. I guess they have made Jewry obvlious
ellelaby123 5 months ago
@kermitcintronsucks
they have made themselves seemingly oblivious to Jewry/Zionism, but perhaps to reel in more members. Perhaps it will be up to people such as ourselves to add our own spin to movements like this when there becomes an opportunity for this to be so to liberate people of the parasitical mindset of said Jews. It is not hard for people to see through their lies.
ellelaby123 5 months ago
Also I'd like to know what PJ means when he says Marx never addressed problems of production. Has he read Capital? That book is exclusively about the process of capitalist production. Or does he mean socialist production? Marx never elaborated on the specifics of how socialism would work, because he thought it would be an inevitable result of historical processes. I'm beginning to wonder if PJ has read any Marx besides the Manifesto himself.
warmongerpro 6 months ago 4
Ahahahaha. Marxists think that people need to be sent to reeducation camps so they can be purged of greed? That's the funniest interpretation of Marxism I've heard yet. Marxists believe that the working class should seize the means of production so it can determine its own future. Greed is just an abstract, one-sided concept, and isn't useful for any kind of analysis.
warmongerpro 6 months ago
Boy oh boy there never a short supply of fooled and foolish people to be found inhabiting the empire but that's what empires are real good at generating fools it's the stuff that keeps em going.people have been figured out by dictators,tyrants and statesmen for quiet some time. keep em distracted give em misdirection and a whole lot of what they want to here and believe in and boom ya got em mission accomplished.
toobigaman 6 months ago
V!vA ZgM, that's Zeitgeist!
AntiChrista4WPeace 6 months ago
I am really keen on Zeitgeist Videos, they approach and engagement, but watching the last movie really made me confuse about its relation to communism. The part when Joseph shows how the resources should be calculated and distributed is pretty much interrelated with communism.
bianodias2000 6 months ago
I dont care what kind of ist you follow or ism you subscribe to. My question is how far are you willing to go to shape society? If people dont subscribe to your ism, will you force them? Nobody said you had to use money. Its always been your choice, even if alternate choices were limited. The kind of world you want has to be achieved through force which defies your overall objectives. This is why marxist ideas were never actualized. The mechanism to enforce the idea destroys the idea.
woodchuckwillie 6 months ago
Peter, quit acting like it's not communism...it is. The entire goal of communism is to have a resource based economy that creates super abundance and need no money and everyone's happy. This is exactly what you're proposing. I don't see that this takes anyway from your idea though, i think it just means we have to stop being afraid of the word "communism".
munkyusm 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Warning! Zeitgeist is Illuminati/NWO propaganda. 100%.
Axxess7777 7 months ago
Call me crazy but I don't think this guy is smarter than Marx. I'm a socialist and I feel like his movement is essentially socialism without as much influence or likelihood.
michaelchristopherj 7 months ago 21
@michaelchristopherj It has similarities to Socialism, but the notion of a Resource Based Economy, supported through technological means, is something new which Marx could not have anticipated in his time. We're proposing the abolition of the labor class, -- not the idealization of the labor class, as in Marxism.
Silenus6 7 months ago 5
@Silenus6 Dude, it is communism. Go look it up! The utopian idea of Marx was that there would be such a super abundance that we would be allow to distribute everything evenly to everyone and live in a resource based economy. This takes nothing away from Zeitgeist's idea though...it just means we need to quit being so God damn afraid of the word "communism".
munkyusm 6 months ago
If you want to see how we transition to a resource based economy...type in "TED TALKS MARCIN JUKABOWSKI"
munkyusm 6 months ago
@michaelchristopherj
Well that dose not say much, because Marx was a really really smart guy. And second of all he is dead and have been for a while, so comparing those two who lived in totally different societies, ages and countries would be really complex :)
Any how, have a nice day! :)
hcpiano 6 months ago
@michaelchristopherj You are right.
purpurpledog8 5 months ago
@michaelchristopherj The absolute truth is the interdependence of life, the entanglement of all and everything in the language of quantum physics. Capitalism is the historic process of PRIVATE PROPERTY RELATIONSHIP OF ALIENATION,EXPLOITATION AND SUFFERING OF HUMANITY in a modality of commodity production with the sole motive of profit . A WORLD MARKET MECHANISM of ARTIFICIAL SCARCITY,, DISTORTION AND DESTRUCTION. The emergent realisation of limits and obsolete nature of Capitalism is on.
arzoyan 5 months ago
@michaelchristopherj Epic comment.
TheLockon00 4 months ago
@michaelchristopherj of course he's not smarter than Marx. How could anyone be smarter than one of the best thinkers of humanity?..
panosc2 4 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
nwo+freemason+illuminati+scientology+secretsociety+religion+ bohemiangrove+occult+government+constitution+zionist+slavery +elitecriminals+war+etc = CAPITALIST REALM LANDLORD GRABBER PIG ROYAL LAZY FAMILY.
fight for LAST DROP BLOOD for MONEY & POWER = LAZY ROYAL PIG FAMILY
CAPITALISM = ROYAL SLAVE LORD MASTERS LAZY FAMILY..!!!
"GOD HANG the REALM LANDGRABBER PIG ROYAL LAZY FAMILY"
"GOD HANG the REALM LANDGRABBER PIG ROYAL LAZY FAMILY"
------ copy & paste WE ARE THE 99% FREEMAN ------
kopellhinex 2 months ago
@panosc2 what the fuck ? LOL. Marx was smarter than PJ .? xaxaxa, very funny indeed.....LOL thanx
vasgeorge 2 months ago
@michaelchristopherj smarter than Marx?are you crazy?
a01543z 4 months ago
@michaelchristopherj It's not about being smarter. Marx was one of the best thinkers of humanity, no doubt at all. Nowadays, we can learn from him and "stand in his shoulders" and be able to look even farther. Times change, everything changes, our toughts and ideas must also change, adapt, improve, always.
Roninchannel 3 months ago
@michaelchristopherj LOOOOOOL marx smarter than peter and fresco? hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
kornboy3 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Peter Joseph courageously embodies the humanistic / scientific enlightenment of the 21 st century. He has grasped the very inner structrual contradictions of the CAPITALIST/MONETARY system and his revolutionary call for a WORLD OF COOPERATION FOR OUR COMMON NEEDS AND WELL BEING should be the CONSTITUTION OF A NEW HUMANI CIVIILISATION.
arzoyan 7 months ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Peter Joseph is a communist peter joseph wants to force people to be his follower i hope he dies he use to be ok but when addendum came out he pissed me off
TheRivetthead 7 months ago
Marxism is better
AtheismCentral 8 months ago
why must everyone bicker over the sign above the door.there is no "one ultimate" government plan. for while one man builds, another makes it his life work to tear it down and replace with his ideals.. here's my ? , are you on the side of greed,which breeds corruption? or are you on the side of love, which breeds compassion? a world free if 'isms is a world i would love to live in !
JamesOscar 8 months ago
Bullshit. He's not even scratching marxism when he states that Marx ('and his disciples') stated that people had to re-educated in camps... Where'd he said that? A load of bullocks that has merely been paraphrased from rabiate anti-communists that hardly tried to understand the darn thing.
The point is rather, that the material conditions and interest conflicts will lead the masses into revolutionary struggles, which then, according to Lenin, must be organized (not herded) by the leadership
Counterreactionary 8 months ago
Zeitgeist Movement is not communism. It's worse. And its 'leader' Peter Joseph is a total douchebag.
ammaroo1975 9 months ago
@ammaroo1975 PROVE IT.. Because i doubt you can.. your nothing more them a slave monkey getting butt fucked my the system and except your butt fucked life as a slave and you wont everyone else to do the same.. your a fool..if you can see the suffering of the people.. fresh out of college in New York i was laid off. i had a great resume and the skills to do any job in my field but guess what happen nothing after searching everyday i found that every one i went to wasen't hireing
KamidakeRed 9 months ago
@KamidakeRed
Maybe you can'y get a job because you are a total douchebag loser. Did you think of that? People don't want to work with you because they don't want to be around you.
Just because you went to college and have a sweet resume doesn't mean you are entitled to a job. Somebody has to actually see some value in your employment and thats not going to happen if you have a rotten personality.
The Zeitgeist Movement isn't going to solve that fact that you are a loser and no one likes you.
ammaroo1975 9 months ago
@ammaroo1975 please, then that must mean every one around me were douche bag loser to right... all the 100s of people in the same position i was in. oh yeah that really a smart observation of this depression... why didn't i see that before like you do... umm you know why because i'm not a total fucking idiot..
KamidakeRed 9 months ago
@ammaroo1975 So not only did this system that you seem to love so much put me and people like me behind on replaying our school loans.. in place us in you guessed it "Debt" and since there was no jobs the Interest on those loans just kept growing... so you know what this System is WORSE AND STUPID PEOPLE LIKE YOU WANTING TO KEEP THOSE THAT ARE HARMING YOU AS WELL IN POWER IS A MENTAL ILLNESS YOU MUST HAVE.. Your as corrupted as this system.. Go back to doing nothing.. and thinking of yourself
KamidakeRed 9 months ago
@ammaroo1975 Ja! You're one of those who think communism is bad, aren't you? Who thought you to think that?
Labaro63 9 months ago
@Labaro63
That communism is bad is a conclusion I 'arrived' at using the best information available at the time, using scientific principals.
In science, theories are proved/disproved by experiments/observation. Communism was the social experiment of the 20th century and it led to mass starvation, suffering, murder and death proving that it was a false theory; impossible to implement.
To say that communism is bad, is only using 'the application of The Scientific Method for social concern'
ammaroo1975 9 months ago
@ammaroo1975 First of all, what does the Scientific Method have to do with political philosophy? Different sciences, different tongue, different conclusions, as simple as that. In addition, without having any intention to justify Soviet Union's methods (I'm an anarchist, not a communist or whatever), you really miss the historical truth: In Soviet Union there was no starvation, because citizens were obliged to work for the state. Thus, there was no unemployment.
panosc2 9 months ago
@ammaroo1975 You also mention suffering,murder and death. Right, USSR was a totalitarian state. But the same goes for ALL capitalist states, and generally every state in the world. We still believe in theories that propose authority and power, as necessary means of social cohesion. Forget that crap! In a sense, capitalism has failed, because it gives no better life than any other statist theory. You have to be a bourgeois, believing in the God of money, to enjoy yourself because of Capitalism.
panosc2 9 months ago 2
@panosc2
USSR was not totalitarian sir, Stalin never did anything totalitarian, Khrushchev and the people after did.
AtheismCentral 8 months ago
@AtheismCentral Could be a different party opposed to the communist party? No. And yes, Stalin did a LOT of totalitarian things, first of all, the fusion of Legislative, Executive and Juditial powers IS TOTALITARISM. And that was wath exactly the URSS did. Just ask the people in the Gulag if it was not a totalitarian system. I am pretty surprised that the people who defend the Soviet Union never lived in it... ;)
MGGoblin 7 months ago
@ammaroo1975 lol, communism faild because of the oppresion of capitalism in other countries. That is widely known. Real communism hasn't been applied yet, because the whole world should be communist to prove it
Labaro63 9 months ago 3
@Labaro63
Because socialism/communism doesn't work with humans!
rebelq1 9 months ago
@rebelq1 and capitalism does?? lol...
Kabrielseiffert 8 months ago
@ slow mind
Laissez faire capitalism which almost never existed DOES work, yes! Corporatism, like the one that we have now in many parts of the world, doesn't!
You don't seem to know the difference between these two!
rebelq1 8 months ago
Communism by definition, according to Frederick Engels is the doctrine of the condition of the liberation of the proletariat.Or in a word, the abolishment of private property.Characteristics of a communist society include the ownership of the means of production or capital to the working-class, the producers of all value.
rickdelagarza 9 months ago
People dont even know what Communism is!! WTF!
atheistonly 9 months ago
To save time skip to 1:03 :)
atheistonly 9 months ago 14
Isn't Zeitgeist and the Venus Project just communism for thick people?
niriop 9 months ago
We need to get rid of the profit system and the prophet system
darkside666666 9 months ago
@darkside666666 Yeah, that's communism
niriop 9 months ago
@niriop just because you remove the profit system you have communism? thats a false dilemma sorry. there are other things than capitalism and communism. think outside the box buddy.
ApocAlypse6275 9 months ago
@ApocAlypse6275 The definition of communism is a society devoid of a state or a monetary system which operates with a gift economy, where all industry is owned in common and any economic activity is done as "free play", giving people more time to pursue their personal hobbies and desires.
The VP is a complete bastardization of the above ideal.
niriop 9 months ago
@niriop no watch/oLoTiFihWkQ
ApocAlypse6275 9 months ago
@ApocAlypse6275 not found
niriop 9 months ago
@niriop /watch?v=oLoTiFihWkQ
ApocAlypse6275 9 months ago
@ApocAlypse6275 Wait a minute...the video we're on right now?
niriop 9 months ago
@niriop oh fuc-
ApocAlypse6275 9 months ago
@niriop
ever lived in a communist country?
kbb28 9 months ago
@kbb28 Those are state capitalist societies with a rigid social hierarchy based around the "Party"
niriop 9 months ago
Marx's theory of alienation - the separation of things that naturally belong together & the social alienation of people from aspects of their human nature.
False consciousness - The Marxist belief is this occurs due to the elites control over the people, which the mass population do not know they are under.
Removal of religion is a demand for truth - Marxist
Pure communism, the final stage of Marxism when the state is no more and we are free from wages and labour.
Mikeofdundee1987 9 months ago
I can't understand why everyones got beef with the VP and Peter. So, he's a thinker. He has provided a documentary on problems in society (which, you can't deny are true and factually based) and provided his OPINIONS on how to overcome/improve them. He makes a great point about 'sources' and 'evidence' here. Intelligent bloke. I like his views on environmentalism and capitalism on our planet but I disagree with his theories on 9/11 conspiracy (i hate that word) and some parts of the VP. So what?
bobotohough 10 months ago
uuughh peter joseph, what a bs artist. He claims people are the product of their cultural conditioning. He really wants to think of humans as organic machines who shuffle to and fro based on cultural programming.Peter looks at you and says everything you think, want or not want is not your own but programmed into you. No wonder he thinks a supercomputer should be running our lives. If this logic is true then surely his own desire to change the economy is not his own but a mere product of culture
Iseeyoursoul 10 months ago
@Iseeyoursoul it is a freaking fact bro. we get told what to do and not to do... we learn from others.. it does not mean that we cant change, but if we can change.. why cant we take a look at the world and ask ourselves, what the fuck is wrong with this shiit! just the fact that we have more poor people than wealthy people is a fail in my book. PJ has never said that it can be perfect, BUT it can get so much better than this shit. WE have failed as a human race...
mastereismaname 10 months ago 6
@mastereismaname a-fucking-men man.
esg1220 10 months ago
@mastereismaname EVERYONE should think that's a fail. And, you are absolutely correct, Peter never said that it's going to be perfect. Keep preaching!
esca8652 8 months ago
@Iseeyoursoul OH I found another ad hominem. this is becoming a game of tallying of how many of these I can find :D do you have rational proof to shore up your hypothesis?
iTrollPhorPhun 10 months ago
I agree with his statement but this was an obvious attempt to dissociate the movement from Marxism as he believes the label comes with negative connotations which would negatively affect the PR wing of the venus project. The similarities between the two in term's of implementation are there and the question deserves an intellectual and non-evasive response.
garrhawe 10 months ago