I'm just curious. What would be the authors of the gospels motivation to fabricate what happened? They risked their lives to follow Jesus, so why would they follow someone that they knew was a fake? Also, the point of this religion was to live a life of righteousness & truth, so why would they taint the message with lies (contradiction)? Is there any documents that discredit these (indirect or direct) eyewitness claims, or are there just no documents that support the gopals?
1:40 No. Actually only with simple kinship anthropology we may know that in those times, the son-in-law was a son too. In Luke the genealogy belongs to Mary, daughter of Eli. There is always a correct answer for the gospel, go to: carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/why-are-there-different-genealogies-jesus-matthew-1-and-luke-3
im also guessing you don't know what a prophesy is,if you study the psalms, you would see that some of it are prophesies and some of it r just conversation between God and David. if you read psalms 91 where it is mentioning he (not referring to God) unlike other prophesies it does not have a capital (H)e it is between God and David,Jesus is not obligated to fulfill it & Jesus did kinda fulfill it if you think of the tomb of Jesus,surrounded by angels, didn't have to roll a stone or perish there
I also don't know where you are getting your scriptures from but Matthew doesn't tell us where they got the donkey from like you claimed, Mark said they found the colt tied by the door outside on the street. I still don't see where the contradiction is because the prophesy said sitting on a donkey and a colt and matthew said they brought a donkey and a colt. If you were told to jump of a cliff would you?? despite the fact that you know you are being tempted, by satan!!!
Because some of the stuff are not documented does not mean it didn't happen about the pharassies and the sadduses..there is a perfect scripture for that, cast not your pearls before swine! they were the ones to know the law and know the signs of time, not out of place like Jesus said, I came to save the lost, they are the elders of Israel, they had no excuse to be lost.
ok so let me ask a few questions,if all of the 4 gospels wrote down exactly the same thing then they would be an exact replication of another &if Herod send his men to go kill children,why would he write an account of this? you are also making assumptions that healings do not happen when I have seen many with my own eyes.Just because YOU don't see something doesn't mean its not taking place & by the way,in those times, people were paid to keep their mouth about Jesus so it is not much of a shock
no actually Luke 3:23 does refer to Mary because it says Jesus being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli. It doesn't say that Joseph was the son of Heli, it was implying that Jesus being in the physical form is the son of Joseph therefore Jesus the son of Heli who is the father of Mary. Genealogies are mostly in male character but Matthew decided to add female characters to his to show it by generations. By the way, Luke traces it back all the way to Adam & Matthew the throne
Dude, what about the ridiculous Census story? The Roman Census never demanded people go back to their ancestral homes--that's ludicrous and no historians believe such a thing was even possible to compel. It was also gratuitous for calculation purposes. The best explanation is that it was an invention to place jesus in bethlehem--the city of david--, which was supposedly where she was born, even though everyone knew jesus's hometown because it was part of his name.
2:35 but i remember hearing(im an Atheist by the way) that a famous basketball player was born like that, his parents were grinding and they sperm JUST GOT IN SOMEHOW, and hes born.
I haven't heard of that, but even so it only takes one sperm to get a girl pregnant. Its rare, but still possible, for conception to occur even if there was no penetration. Sperm are very good swimmers lol
One other thing I think, is to understand how many Christians think. Most a taught "safeguards" against "unbelievers". Most are taught to believe in spite of the evidence or lack of. But the interesting thing is, the Bible itself does NOT teach you to believe "in spite" of evidence or lack of, but "because" of evidence. So most Christians are not a very good source for data...LOL...BTW...Do the Mormons still believe people live on the Sun and that it gets it's light from somewhere else?...LOL
Religion has to be the strangest I've ever investigated. Most times you look at a situation and try to draw a conclusion. Then you look for evidence to support that conclusion. With religion, if you take the opposite approach and look for evidence that pokes holes in your story, you'll be amazed at how often you have to start all over. Besides no history though, another concern for me would be that no one else can do these "miracles". Jesus said they'd do even greater ones. So far nobody has.
2 things: 1...when more 2 or 3 persons are fabricating a story, often times they'll be as accurate as a Swiss watch.
2...On the "prophesy" at the end. How was that a prophesy? It was something that "wouldn't" happen and it didn't." The literal translation says that Jesus told Satan that it was sinful to put God to foolish tests which, if I believed in "that" God...I'd agree...LOL
However I agree that, events as major as those should have shown up somewhere in historical accounts.
it wouldn't be uncommon for anyone else to write these events down because Jesus was not a popular person and the Godly things would not be metioned becuase he was going agaisnt the established religion. (They hated him and eventaully killed him). Also I doubt most people at this time could even actually read and write. And even them how many origianal manuscripts from this time acutally excist. Probably not many.
@MrShaners80 But if Hundreds of people witnessed and were supposedly affected by the miracles of jesus, there's bound to be at least 1 historian among them, or some scribe. That many people witnessing that many things wouldn't be likely to keep it to themselves, either, and the stories would spread TO independent historians by the hundreds. But not a single historian outside the bible, DURING the supposed life of jesus ever wrote a single thing. Only 30 years later by already-biased sources.
Saying that Jesus existed isn't the issue, its the supernatural claims. If I were to take Alexander the Great and say that since he existed every single mythological claim made about his lineage, divine actions, etc are true, you would laugh. Likewise, saying since Jesus existed every single mythological claim made about him is true is equally fallacious.
The historicity I think is disputable, but I stand by the contradictions and blatant inconsistencies that I pointed out.
carpe, well that was a kind response to my arrogant comments, I feel like a prick. I now get what u are saying. I did my masters thesis on the historical Jesus and when I see people post on utube, it boils my blood sometimes but now I get what u are after. My bad, I retract my post and again great evolution vid-I loved the music. :]
I pronounced some of those incorrectly because I thought they would have they same pronunciation as they do with their native languages (with Sadducees, and same with Pilate later). That was a poor move on my part, the latin pronunciation made more sense to me for some reason.
All things considered, the validity of the evolution video is independent from the validity of this one. If you find the arguments made in this one inadequate then you have no obligation to accept them.
Sorry, but the gospel authors fail in many places as well. While I went to chuck smiths maranatha school, I realized that many of the arguments for jesus are just dishonest. Instead of trying to look better or more rational from your comments, post evidence as to why this video is nonsense.
I love when atheists try and act liek Bible scholars but sorry us who know better know better. Almost every scholar of the historical Jesus (including the dino radical sceptic Bultman) accepted that Jesus did miracles and healings. If u knew something about the different criteria concerning how scholars determine what has high historical probability and what doesnt u would understand why. I was hoping for a scholarly presentation, wont find it here.
@agnostaxian Miracles are only scholarly to those who believe in miracles. Miracles don't happen in real life now, so there's no reason to believe they ever happened.
@limegreensquid I disagree. I have personally seen miracles and almost all scholars (even non-Christian ones) acknowledge that Jesus did miracles like healings. Of course if you don't think miracles can occur they can always be explained away. It all depends on your presuppositions
@agnostaxian Haha, all scholars? All acknowledge him to have done miracles and healings? Maybe scholars are christian-biased theological schools - but many scholars (not none, not all unfortunately) doubt he even truly existed, since his tales were told 30 after his death by people who wanted to capitalize on a possible rebel's successes. Well, my presuppositions will always remain in reality - and in reality miracles are no more than chance. Bad luck happens just as often as good luck.
@limegreensquid Almost all scholars accept that Jesus did miracles and healings. many are not Christians either and most are liberal critical scholars who definitely do not think the Bible is inerrant.
As for Jesus existing, let me put it this way, there is a higher percentage of YEC among geologists than there are Jesus mythicists among historians and scholars. Bultmann (definitely on the far left of critical scholarship) called Jesus mythicists "insane".
@JesusVencera The focus is on the idea that christians have changed the word "young maiden" which could mean ANY type of young woman, virgin or not, into the specific word "virgin". It's like taking the term "German Person" and replacing it with the word "Nazi." Not as extreme or damaging, but it's still dishonest and misleading. But dishonesty and misinformation are what christians depend on most to keep their stories alive. They just shorten those words into the single word, "Faith."
hm..no, historian would not mention the killing of some infats in a random jewish village. Look @ the existing manuscripts of the time, you will find out that Jesus would have no reason to be mentioned as the impact was very local, insignificant.
keep posting your vids as responses, and you'll get there. it's best to post as response to channels which don't get more than ten or so responses on their videos. For example, if you post as response to 'TheAmazingAtheist', who apparently accepts any random video as response, your video will just drown in a sea of dozens of irrelevant and spamming responses from view hoggers, and probably nobody will bother to have a look.
now.........with the glory of artificial insemination it is more than possible for some virgin to go get pregnant without loosing her virginity. why a virgin would wish to do so is beyond me........but it's possible
Actually spontaneous pregnancies or "parthenogenesis" does occur in humans, but the resulting offspring is always female. The ovum hits a chemical "spike" in the womb and begins to split and replicate using the mother's own strands of X and X chromosomes. Now in the case of a woman with a mixed hermaphroditic XXY compliment it is possible but highly unlikely that a male offspring could occur, but the mother would be a serious medical anomaly.
That's what I get for actually reading the myths for myself and guessing at how they are pronounced instead of having a priest verbally interpret them for me for most of my life.
really... geez and I'm usually very careful about spelling. It might be the whole making two parts with a total of 16 minutes that let mistakes creep in. Still no excuse though I suppose.
Now the only question is if I should fix and reupload or just leave it
I'm just curious. What would be the authors of the gospels motivation to fabricate what happened? They risked their lives to follow Jesus, so why would they follow someone that they knew was a fake? Also, the point of this religion was to live a life of righteousness & truth, so why would they taint the message with lies (contradiction)? Is there any documents that discredit these (indirect or direct) eyewitness claims, or are there just no documents that support the gopals?
bushacker08 1 month ago
Caesar Feeds 5000 People
thone2008 5 months ago in playlist More videos from CarpeOmne
1:40 No. Actually only with simple kinship anthropology we may know that in those times, the son-in-law was a son too. In Luke the genealogy belongs to Mary, daughter of Eli. There is always a correct answer for the gospel, go to: carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/why-are-there-different-genealogies-jesus-matthew-1-and-luke-3
Fantasticlist 5 months ago
im also guessing you don't know what a prophesy is,if you study the psalms, you would see that some of it are prophesies and some of it r just conversation between God and David. if you read psalms 91 where it is mentioning he (not referring to God) unlike other prophesies it does not have a capital (H)e it is between God and David,Jesus is not obligated to fulfill it & Jesus did kinda fulfill it if you think of the tomb of Jesus,surrounded by angels, didn't have to roll a stone or perish there
teehbeebz 7 months ago
I also don't know where you are getting your scriptures from but Matthew doesn't tell us where they got the donkey from like you claimed, Mark said they found the colt tied by the door outside on the street. I still don't see where the contradiction is because the prophesy said sitting on a donkey and a colt and matthew said they brought a donkey and a colt. If you were told to jump of a cliff would you?? despite the fact that you know you are being tempted, by satan!!!
teehbeebz 7 months ago
Because some of the stuff are not documented does not mean it didn't happen about the pharassies and the sadduses..there is a perfect scripture for that, cast not your pearls before swine! they were the ones to know the law and know the signs of time, not out of place like Jesus said, I came to save the lost, they are the elders of Israel, they had no excuse to be lost.
teehbeebz 7 months ago
ok so let me ask a few questions,if all of the 4 gospels wrote down exactly the same thing then they would be an exact replication of another &if Herod send his men to go kill children,why would he write an account of this? you are also making assumptions that healings do not happen when I have seen many with my own eyes.Just because YOU don't see something doesn't mean its not taking place & by the way,in those times, people were paid to keep their mouth about Jesus so it is not much of a shock
teehbeebz 7 months ago
no actually Luke 3:23 does refer to Mary because it says Jesus being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli. It doesn't say that Joseph was the son of Heli, it was implying that Jesus being in the physical form is the son of Joseph therefore Jesus the son of Heli who is the father of Mary. Genealogies are mostly in male character but Matthew decided to add female characters to his to show it by generations. By the way, Luke traces it back all the way to Adam & Matthew the throne
teehbeebz 7 months ago
Dude, what about the ridiculous Census story? The Roman Census never demanded people go back to their ancestral homes--that's ludicrous and no historians believe such a thing was even possible to compel. It was also gratuitous for calculation purposes. The best explanation is that it was an invention to place jesus in bethlehem--the city of david--, which was supposedly where she was born, even though everyone knew jesus's hometown because it was part of his name.
dandooshnanoosh 10 months ago
2:35 but i remember hearing(im an Atheist by the way) that a famous basketball player was born like that, his parents were grinding and they sperm JUST GOT IN SOMEHOW, and hes born.
darthvaderyoda 1 year ago
@darthvaderyoda
I haven't heard of that, but even so it only takes one sperm to get a girl pregnant. Its rare, but still possible, for conception to occur even if there was no penetration. Sperm are very good swimmers lol
CarpeOmne 1 year ago
One other thing I think, is to understand how many Christians think. Most a taught "safeguards" against "unbelievers". Most are taught to believe in spite of the evidence or lack of. But the interesting thing is, the Bible itself does NOT teach you to believe "in spite" of evidence or lack of, but "because" of evidence. So most Christians are not a very good source for data...LOL...BTW...Do the Mormons still believe people live on the Sun and that it gets it's light from somewhere else?...LOL
amzuel420 2 years ago
Religion has to be the strangest I've ever investigated. Most times you look at a situation and try to draw a conclusion. Then you look for evidence to support that conclusion. With religion, if you take the opposite approach and look for evidence that pokes holes in your story, you'll be amazed at how often you have to start all over. Besides no history though, another concern for me would be that no one else can do these "miracles". Jesus said they'd do even greater ones. So far nobody has.
amzuel420 2 years ago
2 things: 1...when more 2 or 3 persons are fabricating a story, often times they'll be as accurate as a Swiss watch.
2...On the "prophesy" at the end. How was that a prophesy? It was something that "wouldn't" happen and it didn't." The literal translation says that Jesus told Satan that it was sinful to put God to foolish tests which, if I believed in "that" God...I'd agree...LOL
However I agree that, events as major as those should have shown up somewhere in historical accounts.
amzuel420 2 years ago
ya considering like 95% of history scholars believe "in" the Christ lulz... fail
thorownshulk 2 years ago
it wouldn't be uncommon for anyone else to write these events down because Jesus was not a popular person and the Godly things would not be metioned becuase he was going agaisnt the established religion. (They hated him and eventaully killed him). Also I doubt most people at this time could even actually read and write. And even them how many origianal manuscripts from this time acutally excist. Probably not many.
MrShaners80 2 years ago
@MrShaners80 But if Hundreds of people witnessed and were supposedly affected by the miracles of jesus, there's bound to be at least 1 historian among them, or some scribe. That many people witnessing that many things wouldn't be likely to keep it to themselves, either, and the stories would spread TO independent historians by the hundreds. But not a single historian outside the bible, DURING the supposed life of jesus ever wrote a single thing. Only 30 years later by already-biased sources.
limegreensquid 1 year ago
Comment removed
agnostaxian 2 years ago
Saying that Jesus existed isn't the issue, its the supernatural claims. If I were to take Alexander the Great and say that since he existed every single mythological claim made about his lineage, divine actions, etc are true, you would laugh. Likewise, saying since Jesus existed every single mythological claim made about him is true is equally fallacious.
The historicity I think is disputable, but I stand by the contradictions and blatant inconsistencies that I pointed out.
CarpeOmne 2 years ago
carpe, well that was a kind response to my arrogant comments, I feel like a prick. I now get what u are saying. I did my masters thesis on the historical Jesus and when I see people post on utube, it boils my blood sometimes but now I get what u are after. My bad, I retract my post and again great evolution vid-I loved the music. :]
agnostaxian 2 years ago
cont:
I pronounced some of those incorrectly because I thought they would have they same pronunciation as they do with their native languages (with Sadducees, and same with Pilate later). That was a poor move on my part, the latin pronunciation made more sense to me for some reason.
All things considered, the validity of the evolution video is independent from the validity of this one. If you find the arguments made in this one inadequate then you have no obligation to accept them.
CarpeOmne 2 years ago
Sorry, but the gospel authors fail in many places as well. While I went to chuck smiths maranatha school, I realized that many of the arguments for jesus are just dishonest. Instead of trying to look better or more rational from your comments, post evidence as to why this video is nonsense.
peaceplease83 2 years ago
Also loved the way u pronounced Sadducees. Are u going to call the gospel writers "morans" as well?
agnostaxian 2 years ago
I love when atheists try and act liek Bible scholars but sorry us who know better know better. Almost every scholar of the historical Jesus (including the dino radical sceptic Bultman) accepted that Jesus did miracles and healings. If u knew something about the different criteria concerning how scholars determine what has high historical probability and what doesnt u would understand why. I was hoping for a scholarly presentation, wont find it here.
agnostaxian 2 years ago
@agnostaxian Miracles are only scholarly to those who believe in miracles. Miracles don't happen in real life now, so there's no reason to believe they ever happened.
limegreensquid 1 year ago
@limegreensquid I disagree. I have personally seen miracles and almost all scholars (even non-Christian ones) acknowledge that Jesus did miracles like healings. Of course if you don't think miracles can occur they can always be explained away. It all depends on your presuppositions
agnostaxian 1 year ago
@agnostaxian Haha, all scholars? All acknowledge him to have done miracles and healings? Maybe scholars are christian-biased theological schools - but many scholars (not none, not all unfortunately) doubt he even truly existed, since his tales were told 30 after his death by people who wanted to capitalize on a possible rebel's successes. Well, my presuppositions will always remain in reality - and in reality miracles are no more than chance. Bad luck happens just as often as good luck.
limegreensquid 1 year ago
@limegreensquid Almost all scholars accept that Jesus did miracles and healings. many are not Christians either and most are liberal critical scholars who definitely do not think the Bible is inerrant.
As for Jesus existing, let me put it this way, there is a higher percentage of YEC among geologists than there are Jesus mythicists among historians and scholars. Bultmann (definitely on the far left of critical scholarship) called Jesus mythicists "insane".
agnostaxian 1 year ago
@agnostaxian sorry, scholars OF theological schools.
limegreensquid 1 year ago
Just to give a glimpse of his stupidity!
The hebrew word "almah" means young girl, maiden!
Now the youtube genius forgets tha under the jewish law there could have any possibility of a "almah" not being a VIRGEN!!!!!
Go study first and study A LOT!!!!
And after you come back to post your stupid assumptions here!
You are just a simpleton who has been given a pc!!!
JesusVencera 2 years ago
You're focused on one small error in his video. Can you refute his other claims?
badism 2 years ago
@JesusVencera The focus is on the idea that christians have changed the word "young maiden" which could mean ANY type of young woman, virgin or not, into the specific word "virgin". It's like taking the term "German Person" and replacing it with the word "Nazi." Not as extreme or damaging, but it's still dishonest and misleading. But dishonesty and misinformation are what christians depend on most to keep their stories alive. They just shorten those words into the single word, "Faith."
limegreensquid 1 year ago
You're a genious!!!
If I made few questions to you I bet you'd pull your underwear to the head!!
What a dumb young man!
JesusVencera 2 years ago
hm..no, historian would not mention the killing of some infats in a random jewish village. Look @ the existing manuscripts of the time, you will find out that Jesus would have no reason to be mentioned as the impact was very local, insignificant.
multiverse3 2 years ago
keep posting your vids as responses, and you'll get there. it's best to post as response to channels which don't get more than ten or so responses on their videos. For example, if you post as response to 'TheAmazingAtheist', who apparently accepts any random video as response, your video will just drown in a sea of dozens of irrelevant and spamming responses from view hoggers, and probably nobody will bother to have a look.
Good stuff here, subbing.
blackwolf1272 2 years ago
now.........with the glory of artificial insemination it is more than possible for some virgin to go get pregnant without loosing her virginity. why a virgin would wish to do so is beyond me........but it's possible
lionn420 2 years ago
Actually spontaneous pregnancies or "parthenogenesis" does occur in humans, but the resulting offspring is always female. The ovum hits a chemical "spike" in the womb and begins to split and replicate using the mother's own strands of X and X chromosomes. Now in the case of a woman with a mixed hermaphroditic XXY compliment it is possible but highly unlikely that a male offspring could occur, but the mother would be a serious medical anomaly.
formless777 2 years ago
'Sad-Dhyou-Seas' @ 7:14
SaintCog 2 years ago
Yeah, I had several mispronunciations.
That's what I get for actually reading the myths for myself and guessing at how they are pronounced instead of having a priest verbally interpret them for me for most of my life.
CarpeOmne 2 years ago
Good work, seriously, but please use a spell check before posting to maintain your credibility. If it's worth doing, it's worth getting right.
Donkies ? (Donkeys)
Legitamite ? (Legitimate)
formless777 2 years ago
really... geez and I'm usually very careful about spelling. It might be the whole making two parts with a total of 16 minutes that let mistakes creep in. Still no excuse though I suppose.
Now the only question is if I should fix and reupload or just leave it
CarpeOmne 2 years ago
Well, the decision as to how to spend your time is entirely your own. I have subscribed to you because you are worth listening to.
formless777 2 years ago
I enjoy your vids CarpeOmne, IMO you're woefully under subscribed. Keep up the good work.
jonredhornet 2 years ago