Making fun of and insulting religon (burning the koran, jesus figure in urine, etc) is important because it helps break down the vail of respectability that religon wrongly has. Particularly when done in the face of threats or violence.
I'm surprised people would even expect from you to speak out against the actions of the people whose faith you choose to follow, considering what a hateful bigot you are in your videos.
You're metaphors fall flat when one considers that you've neglected your own role in these altercations. If you are inciting people to extreme reactions only to smile smugly and act self righteous. Then by your own assertions, it is up to us to consider why you would. I mean your a positivist, and argue for constructive purposes only, no? So what is dialogue offering us when it involves you? A caricature of a reasonable man offered for self serving ends, and to get attention. Oh well.
Respect is subjective, freedom of speech is not. Their is no problem drawying Muhammad with a bomb on the head, it beautifully illustrated an important issue, islamic terrorism threat to western societies.
Religious satire is not all directed towards offending or demeaning the believers. It is made because it is funny. Many people who are atheists come from families that were very religious. Although they eventually became disillusioned with the religion, they grew up around the imagery of the it. The comedy is about something they know.
Satan is very smart. He started Islam, which grew very quickly. To balance out all the hate and violence of Islam he then appeared to Joseph Smith and created Mormonism. It is eerie how similar the beginnings of both religions are. Satan has his vinegar and honey methods of attraction covered.
The bomb cartoon was not made to promote hate against muslims in general, it was a satirical cartoon about terrorists using religious motives for doing what they do.
I know this from an interview with the drawer himself and it has allways been my interpretation as well.
People have the right to be offended, as much as the people have the right to be critizizing and/or offending. People may get offended, but is it worth to get so easily offended? Making death threats isn't justified, even though someone tries to mock you with all of their heart. Besides drawing Jesus gay has never caused that much fuzz as the bombheadpicture. The more offended you get the more people try to offend you, at least with the recent islamextremist-cases.
As an atheist I am insulted every day, I am considered amoral, immoral, not a true patriot (Bush Sr.), and so on...
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Portrarying Jesus in a bowl of piss is just a mirror to the religion that claims the higher moral ground.
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And that is the message that totally escapes your indoctrinated mind because you, and your religion, do think and act as if you have the higher moral ground. You don't! Morals do not come from the bible or the quran. I can even let you confess so.
Who gave you the power to decide what freedom of speech is and is not? I agree you have the right your property, the right to be offended and speak out against what you find hateful. You DO NOT have the right to try and censor what u find offensive. People(myself included) WILL shit on your religion just to piss u of and we have every right to do so. Grow the fuck up and get over it.
YOu are a very smart men, I like some of your videos, but it is obvious that you do not really know what freedom of speech is. look up the debates of the founding fathers (in America) you will see how offensive and vile they were with each other. Making fun of Zeus is free speech!
I don't think that the drawings of the prophet mohammad are inherently hateful. It might look that way to someone who is a part of the religion, and it is true that a lot of people make these drawing out of disrespect.
What i mean is, even though i can understand your position, i don't think the drawings are always a sign of hate. I try to view them more metaforically as criticism, as cartoons often are.
You seem like a genuinly nice guy. I am an athiest myself but ive known many islamic men here in Australia. Its tragic that so many are quick to assume that all muslims are hateful fanatics. I commend you on putting these videos up and speaking out despite the fact you are a very small minority on YouTube. It is also a pity that almost all athiests believe it is their duty to almost fanatically speak out againced all religions.
"It is also a pity that almost all athiests believe it is their duty to almost fanatically speak out againced all religions."
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I indeed speak fanatically out against all religions that try to force a certain life style upon me or criminalize me if I don't follow their dusty set of awkward rules.
Other than that I don't care if someone believes in zeus, allah, god, shiva, ra, a giant turtle or whatever...
@wimahlers Im sure you dont have many muslims trying to convert you and force lifestyles upon you in the Netherlands. And all the other religions arnt forcing you into anything.
The Dutch blasphemy law and the attempt to introduce an international blasphemy law. The demands for the right to wear headscarfs in schools. The abandoning of the piggy bank, 'cause it might hurt some religious feelings. The sharia law in the UK. The cowardly attutude towards the Danish cartoon affair.
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Even my English muslim acquaintance was complaining that his religion was choking his freedom before his nephew blew up the London underground.
@wimahlers Sharia law in UK only operates over minor issues such as divorce and financial issues. Divoce can happen much quicker in sharia law than in british law. Concerning the penal system sharia law has no effect. If a muslim wants to have their financial issues heard by an islamic court thats fine, but if they perform a criminal act, they go to a british court. And there is nothing wrong with a headscarf.
What you consider "minor issues" I consider "principal issues". The law should be equal for all and independent of any belief system.
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Also, the headscarf is extremely offensive to me. It represents the statement that I somehow can not control my animal urges when I happen to see a lady in a bikini. So, I despise everything the headscarf stands for. And yes! I know it was once in fashion and it may become a fasion again. But without the offensive representation please!
Not to mention the fact that the sharia law is inherently unjust when it comes to divorce rulings. Even if and when both parties agree. Because a ruling accepted while being under the religious spell is not the basis for justice ever.
Im not sure if this was mentioned before, but you realize yt is a public forum, right? Bigoted douche-bags aside, expecting to express yourself on the internet and not have people screw with you is unreasonable... I mean, seriously, have you been to the internets? Second, you truly see no satiric value in a cartoon of mohammed with a bomb-turban? And sadly you DO NOT have the right to not be offended... It happens, people say things that offend me all the time, but I have no right to gag them.
@Quesadilla1773 if Hitler now lived in Holland, he wouldnt get as far as he could in Germany as he did. In Europe the importance of such laws has been influenced by what he did. Currently a public figure here is in court for discrimination, inciting hatred and for demonization of muslims. He might not be convicted, but there is a boundary here to prevent a society and the targeted group from harm.
@Quesadilla1773 its not the governement that does, but a court. This doesnt happen often, mind you, but people (need to) have the right to defend against hatred or discrimination. Actually, the non-discrimination article we (Holland) have is the first article in our constitution. We have as much free speech the US has, actually I live in one the most free countries in the world (more free than USA), so please dont use the censorship card.
@Quesadilla1773 there are western countries that have hatespeech laws. Youre not free to hate as you wish, you can *think* all you like, but you cant express all you feel. Free speech doesnt mean you dont have a responsiblity in what you say. People often conveniently 'forget' that.
Yeah, people like to use the free speech card for basically everything, to manipulate others with, to provoke, to insult, to hate. I see that as an abuse of free speech. Thumbs up.
Freedom of speech does not mean that only the art that doesn't offend you is protected. You made a qualified death threat in your response to thunderf00t. As far as I'm concerned you are a borderline fanatic. If you don't like somebody's work you are free to criticize it. I don't think you censor comments because you are against free speech. I think you do it because you are an intellectual pussy. Anybody who talks about "hate speech" doesn't understand what freedom of speech is.
Wow, talk about fucking rambling, you can't cherry pick based on what you feel is "nice" or coherent. Your channel or not. I really don't see the issue with leaving bigotry or silliness on here, surely it only stand to make your points stronger. Unless.... shock, you've actually been called adequately with no retort. You sound like a child, and continue to show your insecurity. Why should we criticise Islam constructively? Your religion perpetuates hatred. You don't deserve the luxury.
@DawahFilms its not hated its the truth if someone comes to me and says something about my family i can punch that person in the mouth, and possibly go to jail for assualt. or i can be a grown up and ignore the simple bastard. it's my choice to be an adult or i can act like a child
No I'm afraid he is right. There is not constitutional right NOT to be offended. The onus is on you to either ignore them or develop thicker skin. Sorry.
Actually there is a constitutional right for me not to be harassed by people on my own property or even in public. I can do things like get this thing called a "restraining order" or call the authorities to remove said person from my property.
So yes, I do have a right to be offended in certain circumstances...and no...you don't have the right to impose your spite on me because you're an ignorant piss ant.
Drawing these cartoons is not just an attempt to "be a jerk". And the cartoons prove themselves true when you have Muslims gun down unarmed film directors. (RIP Theo van Gogh) And isn't it interesting Dawah? That the only group of people who reacted with death threats were Muslims in this whole South Park drama? South Park made fun of Jesus and other religious characters and Muslims are the ONLY ONES who react this way.
while I agree that you may moderate your channel and be pissed for people falsly calling you out on not critisizing fanatics, I do think you don't get the thing about free speech right. Drawing mohammed with a bomb on his head is a fair critisizm of people utilizing religion to justify acts of terrorism. Some muslims do this and that's a fact (other dogmatic beliefsystems do the same thing ofc). Who is to say that the person drawing that picture even meant you? You are just interpreting that.
You have a pretty gross misunderstanding of freedom of speech if you believe that it entails censoring opposing viewpoints, as you state near the end of your video. Essentially you're advocating free speech, unless you're offended by it, in which case you should be free to silence the person talking. Good luck with that.
Even words said or actions taken to purposely "piss people off" or even demean a whole people are protected and should be protected as free speech. The line is drawn when speech of any kind *directly* leads to violence. If the line is redrawn to protect anyone from slander, then free speech is at risk entirely. The arena in which assholes should feel the consequences of their actions is the arena of society, not the judicial system.
I agree that the death threats against the south park creators were out of line. I really think that the issue might be overblown, after all, I have gotten death threats for making youtube videos! So what? That's my first point, the second point is that south park only showed mohammad (in a bear suit) as an insult and provocation to muslims. The attitude that matt and trey have toward muslims is basically open hate.
Drawing a cartoon of Mohamed does not in any way suggest that Muslims are inferior, less than human, poison, and all sorts of other notions that would actually be hate speech - in the same way that questioning any dogma of Islam cannot be considered hate speech. What is the difference between drawing a Mohamed doodle and questioning any other dogma of Islam.
Also, go ahead on drawing that picture depicting atheists as nazis - I'll defend your legal right to do so. Free speech.
is it ok to keep slaves ? . do ants talk ? do donkeys fly ? are there seven earths ? and seven skys ? does life start as a gushing fluid from between the back bones and ribs ? does the bones of a fetus appear first then covered with flesh ? are there flying carpets ? does drinking camel urine cure any thing ? does the sun set in a muddy creek ? all this and more found in the koran ,, lets debate just the facts of the koran and hadiths,, like al tabri 127 why did he kiss al hussins penis ?
He never indicated that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were appropriate. It is simply a matter of fact that they have happened and that western nuclear capability has grown exponentially since then. Conventional capability has evolved since then as well. Thunderf00t's analogy of ant vs. sleeping giant is very appropriate given the technological disparity.
My friend, I believe you miss the point. Freedom of Speech is a boundry that must be continually pushed: Southpark and family guy are two examples of shows who, ON PURPOSE, make fun of everyone from the handicapped to blacks, hispanics, women, politicians...everyone! They do not single out or attack a specific group. Free speech must be for everyone. You made a video with your thoughts and ideas and put it in the public forum and get then angry when you get criticism? Welcome to FREE SPEECH.
If we do not believe in freedom of speech for those we despise we do not believe in it at all. DawahFilms, you do not believe in freedom of speech for those who oppose you. You do not believe in freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech/expression does protect hate speech, just because I say that I hate all dog owners for owning another living being does not make it wrong or illegal, it is my opinion that I am entitled to have & to voice, it only becomes wrong/illegal when I say that if you agree with me should harm dog owners, now I am inciting violence, that is illegal.
@AbdultheImpailler you may not like me drawing pics of mohammed but I am protected by the law to do so, go ahead, draw a pic of stalin and put my name on it, I won't care in the least. The problem is you don't get it, folks the world over want you moderate muslims to speak up, en masse, against the fundies, and show them for the fools they are, shut them down forever but you don't.
@AbdultheImpailler Organize your fellow moderates and put a stop to the mullahs promoting jihad against anyone not muslim, it is up to you to do this because you know that anyone outside the muslim religion will not be listened to inside your mosque. We outsiders can not stop the radicals inside your religion and you know that so the ball is in your court, do with what you may...
You lost me at 7:00... No you have no idea of what freedom of speech is. Freedom of speech is you have a right to be offended and insulted. Yes I have the right to insult and offend you and you have the right to offend and insult me. I also have the right to hate a concept or a person. No one private citizen or the government has the right to censor what you say. Why does religion always want to be classified as a special exemption to this? BTW - you ramble too much get to the point.
The thing is, What if people considered parts of the quran hate speech and wanted it banned? That's why you have the first amendment to prevent such censorship.
massalakallaa shii shi poop fart. That's all I heard. Most assholes make similar noises. I disrespect you, Allah, your book and Muhammad the pedo (poop be upon him).
Would you say that a cartoon of a bomb-strapped person doesn't represent one important doctrine of Islam? The cartoon is very relevant to the actual 'duty' of Muslims, namely Jihad (and is not really comparable to "Jesus in a jar of urine", which has no relevance to the Christian beliefs and no satiric value).
« Are you saying that I should interpret my religion that way and go blow myself up? »
No. That's what some people who claim to be a true Muslim would say to you. And their beliefs have stronger, harmful political implications. This is what has been motivating those cartoonists. They are not simply being a jerk; they are trying to raise people's awareness in an accessible way of what those 'true' Muslims believe.
@DawahFilms does nt islam teach to follow your prohets living examples ? if so you must relise he had 800 beheaded , he raided 28 caravans ,, he took slaves ,, he taught it was ok to lie to those your about to torture and kill ,, he told his men to drink camel urine ,, he kissed alhussins penis and front of 23 of his men ,, ,ect ect ,, if you would like the hadiths or sura just ask ,, so you agree with this ?
Let's just be honest. You have never approached Islam from the perspective of Muslims and only get your information off of anti-Muslim websites, correct?
Be balanced in your approach and you'll be able to answer your own loaded questions.
@DawahFilms no your wrong and if you like we can start at the koran or the hadiths or the abrogated verses ,,, but i can show totally incorrect suras , and historical facts about your prophet that show he is not a holy man , and every single thing i have listed is backed by fact and found in your books ,,, so how could this be anti islamic ? i bet i know your koran better than you ,,, lets debate the facts ,, this is what i do ,,, so are the stars missles to hurl at satan ?
@DawahFilms and as i said ,,, ARE YOU TO FOLLOW YOUR PROPHET EXAMPLES IN LIFE ? simple question really no secret meaning ,,, just straight forward ,,, dont like the truth ? dont care !
« You have never approached Islam from the perspective of Muslims »
And that approach SHOULD respect the fact that the Quran unambiguously commands the annihilation of non-Muslims by means of violence. You are the one who are diverging from that truly Islamic perspective in favor of the modern secular moral framework; you are other than a true Muslim (which is good for both you and the rest of your society).
@DawahFilms you speak arabic right ... or at least read it right ,,, well please tell us this word and its meaning BADYA ,,,, now tell us what dahaha means ,,, now tell me the koran does say the earths flat ,,, a ostrich nest is not round is it ? no its not ,,, and you are completely wrong about where i get my info from , i just read the koran this will be number 19 ,,, it easy to see you dont comprehend what you read in arabic its lovely poetry but it does hold water for truth
@lesterclaypool1 when prayer was given to Prpht Muhammed (saw) drinking alcohol was not permitted a lot of things happened before the compilation of islam that islam haterz look at there was a non-believer always put junk out the prophets house bcs he didnt lik the prophet & he would do this everyday the prophet would take the junk to the side everyday one day that non-believer was ill one day and wasnt able to put junk there and the prophet was worried bcs he didnt see the junk and visited him
@mirandansa The definition of Jihad is to struggle, not blow someone up. It is not one of the 5 original pillars of Islam. If you think that this kind of language is only in the Quran then you need to read Luke 19:27But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. This is what Jesus(pbuh) said to his disciples. I think you need to do some more research.
« The definition of Jihad is to struggle, not blow someone up. »
You simply uttered a general definition of the Arabic word "jihad", not what is entailed in the Islamic idiom "al-jihad fi sabil Allah" (striving in the way of Allah).
« you need to read Luke »
Yes, both Islam and Christianity endorse violence against non-believers.
« I think you need to do some more research. »
I think you need to think more before assuming every anti-Islam-ist is pro-Christian.
@mirandansa I never said anyone was pro anything. Im just stating facts. These facts that people like to over look. If you think about it, to many people are quick to jump up and say, "see look at what is happening, this mean Islam is evil." That is not true, what it means is that "person" did something evil. That is my point.
Then what's the point of bringing up Luke? We are talking about Islam.
« quick to jump up and say, "see look at what is happening, this mean Islam is evil." »
Islam is evil for what it scripturally (prescriptively) endorses. Many Muslims may of course not be evil. And they are not true Muslims as they don't fully practice what Allah (i.e. Muhammad) asks to, due to their secularization.
@mirandansa I brought up Luke to show you that it is not just Islam that has a past that called for blood shed. Islam is not an evil religion. You dont seem to much about it so I would research it before you just throw out the same ole thing that every sheeple say.
« I brought up Luke to show you that it is not just Islam that has a past that called for blood shed. »
And? What's the point of equating Islam to Christianity? That's like saying "It's not only Hitler who carried out genocide, but Mussolini did to", failing to make a relevant point.
'Past'? No. Islam is *contemporaneously* influencing many people into believing that they can kill non-Muslims for the sake of their religion.
@mirandansa Like I said you dont seem to know much. Islam is not influencing anyone, people are and they are extremists. There are those kind of people everywhere in every religion.
@mirandansa So by what you are saying then if Christianity didnt exist then the extremist wouldnt either. You are sounding more and more like an idiot. Waste of my time.
If you muslims hate the western definition of freedom of speech, then why dont you move to islamic countries, where freedom of speech is defined as the freedom to bash USA and Israel and giving those countries the fault for all the crimes done by muslims??
Your silly retard ideology´ll perish! And NOW you´ve a lot more enemies! Up to now i was realy moderaste towards religiots and their lunatic world view. This has changed.
You want a theocarzy? Then STFU and leave you parasite! You fu$% imbecile dare to question the scientific method and everything that comes with it?
I´ll personally be delighted if you idiots perish!
freedom of speech and the 1st amendment protects "offensive" speech. thats why it was made, nice speech needs no protection. it is offensive speech that is being protected. if i draw mohammad with a bomb it is because im making a statement of what i see or experience. art can be a lie or truth but its still art and subject to interpretation by many ways. yes its okay to disrespect, im sure iraqis would have love to have this right against saddam
its easy to condemn if its just one person. the thing is u need to organize your fellow muslims be it family , friends, mosque ect. and condemn it as a group. these radicals r speaking for your religion and so long as "moderate muslims" do not speak out against it then we weterners will view it as moderates agreeing with the radicals.
You don't have the right to not be offended. You don't have the right to impose religious morality on others who aren't members of your religion. You may find things offensive, but telling me they are objectively morally wrong and that freedom of speech equates to your ideologies, is offensive to me.
Those people who create those drawings, are standing up for freedom in a non violent direct way. The message is simple, that your religions have no power over us, no matter how much you believe.
First off, I want to say that I don't think you are a terrorist sympathizer or a bad person in any way.
That said, whether you chose it or not, whether it is fair or not, you share an affiliation with people that are doing some terrible things. I honestly feel that it is the DUTY of all good people to speak out against such acts, ESPECIALLY when they share an affiliation, however superficial or tenuous.
I think it's safe to say that you view the threats made against South Park as a perversion of your faith. Well, if you don't speak out against it (which is your right), then your faith will be stained by their actions; I'm not saying it's fair, I'm saying it's a FACT.
It's not so much that we are trying to insight hatred so much as to not bow down to their wishes. They want to keep us from drawing Muhammad, and we say YOU CAN'T STOP US. You can't force people to not draw something just because someone else considers it sacred. Also the point is to at least attempt to give these people a wake -up call that we are not willingly to be silent and let them go on threatening us the way they do.
No disagreement here. I think you have every right to block who you want. I also agree that you don't have to address the fundies of your religion, but I am glad you did.
I agree with most of what you say except the ending: You have the right to be offended and to give your opinion about the offender retaliate with words, but you don't have the right to threaten with any physical action. And this is what happened in the whole south park issue.
On one hand, atheists don't riot or murder people over cartoons like Darwin as a monkey or portraying all atheists as Stalin, & I understand the urge to draw the anti-Islamic cartoons, spit in the face of the Jihadist & shout "I do not fear you." (I would explain to them, the damage they do to their own position in turning much of the world against them & against Islam itself, but I do not believe they would understand.)
On the other, as you say, disrespect breeds disrespect, hatred breeds hatred, misunderstanding breeds misunderstanding.
To portray all [religious group] as maniacs because of the actions of certain [religous members] is ludicrous.
I cannot say that I believe any religion is more than fable & fairytale mixed with fantasy, but I do know that there are people who benefit from it and who are hurt the constant two-way barrage of hatred which bounces off the extremist... eh.
I am equal to all people (Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc.) CAN YOU MAKE A VIDEO looking into the camera and saying, "Brother Muslims we are equal to all people including those of the Jewish faith and Christian faith." This way people would open up. So far, if I Youtube around, I see more videos of hate from the Muslim population. I know there may be filtering. But guide us to other resources so we have an open mind.
Agreed that besides orthodox islamists (terrorists) there are also nice fellas like u, but the point is that the qu'ran is full of absurdities (or bull crap) & both believe in imaginary beings and places... and suffering from psychotic religionism and delusion. I think the reason people make fun of you're imaginary friends and ideas (mohamed being the exception) is because they realize how ridiculous your belief systems are., and not through hate... but rather pity and ridicule.
If SP mocks Christ some Xian may threaten violence, but hes not taken seriously. Yet when SP draws Muhammad, CC is so afraid of reprisals they refuse it. Its actually CC that need be shown how to defend free speech, & its they we hope to teach when we post intentionally offensive art of Muhammad. Go ahead & draw atheist Stalin (PBUH) Find the most offensive claim against atheism you can & post it. Your idea may be right or wrong, the subtext valid or invalid. Either way, THAT'S free speech.
i liked most of what you were saying in this video, and up until about 7 minutes in a broadly agreed with the sentiments. i will be doing a response to this video in the next day or two, in the hope that you and i may have a constructive conversation with the hope of making some of the blurred lines more distinct.
You look kinda like a muslim... is that good or bad? I forget which ones we're supposed to shoot because they are going to destroy america... hang on let me turn on Fox News... brb... Damnit is it muslims or Israelis or mexicans that are bad? arghhh it's so hard to keep track of all this stuff... Let me give Sean Hannity a call - he always seems to know what to do... If we had some kind of basic picture of what bad guys look like we could just cut through all this confusion...
DawahFilms, I would recommend you get off YouTube as quickly as possible, there seems to be nothing but neo-cons around these parts, it's really quite scary and thoroughly disturbing.
Their philosophy, or their way of dealing with those embodying a different set of values or beliefs is something like: "Me no like, me call names, me kill." As they stomp around convinced of their own superiority. RUN DAWAH RUN!!!
You're absolutely right that you have no obligation to condemn terrorism simply due to the fact that you share a religion with terrorists who use that religion to justify their terrorism. Others also have no obligation to assume that you don't share those views. If "peace loving" Muslims were half as vocal as the extremists in their opposition to extremism the assumption would be reversed. "Moderate" Muslims have only themselves to blame for the contrary.
Oh, and please if you respond to this comment don't try to feed me the line that Muslims do speak out, but the media doesn't cover it. I have repeatedly made the effort over the years to seek out such condemnation, and they are few, and far between, and normally full of equivocations, and excuses. Rather like a Christian condemning killing an abortion doctor, but the adding that abortion is murder after all, and it's only natural that some people are going to take that seriously.
There are no justifications, or mitigating circumstances for the use of terrorism, or death threats against people for exercising their speech NO MATTER how offensive you may find it, and making excuses is for it is essentially what you do in the second half of this video. If you label speech "hate", or "disrespectful" then you are in a sense giving license to terrorists to respond to it in ways that are unacceptable.
In conclusion what I hear from you in this video with your support for "boycotts" in an attempt to stifle, and removed certain speech is SUPPORT for the terrorists goals if not their methods, and the real danger to free speech is not the method, but the goal itself.
""Moderate" Muslims have only themselves to blame"
100% agree
It's rather naive to think people will respect muslims when they
- usually dont practive their faith like they claim (respectful to other religions, apostates, atheists and generally everybody who doesnt cover up their wife's hair/body and doesnt lock up their wife to "protect" them from the evil world outside)
- get outraged over critiques and cartoons
- but are indifferent about their own bigots and bigotry
No he's a hypocrite he just removes comments that disagree with him. I recently made a comment about Hitler being a Christian, I was obviously disagreeing with him, it was completely respectful and he just sent me a message throwing a hissy fit saying I was wrong and I didn't know what I was talking about and removed my comment.
How about this one... Im offended by Islam, the prophet and his (true) followers. Now try to apply your own line (of reasoning). How will it work out? ;-)
They have the right to take it to court if they think it is really calling people to act in a violent way for example. Or if it is racist in nature. Or for any other reason, but it will probably (hopefully!)not suffice as a reason to remove the content.
The most appalling is the double standard... Ever saw content being removed because of hatred against atheists? Islam and christianity are by definition insulting towards atheists:
This sounds like Fox News says: I am all for free speech, but not on Dec 25 as it's Christmas. What prompted the picture of Muhammad with a bomb? Fiction? No, it was a reaction to reality, which is what cartoons and caricatures normally are.
I'd think that it refers to Islam promoting violence in one way or another, in other words, criticism directed towards the religion and not to the believers, and there is an actual difference there.
Oh my, you are touchy! You must have had some bad experiences with people here.
No, definitely not. I grew up in Tehran, worked in UAE and Afghanistan and have met wonderful people and have Muslim friends. No, definitely not all Muslims.
Muhammad wrote a book that easily allows extremism. It is being exploited and abused. Used to commit atrocities both in physical violence and intellectual suppression.
99% of Muslims lead a peaceful and happy life. An ignorant life.
To take down something you don't like is censorship and therefore violation of the right of free speech. To stand up and to speak against an idea you don't like or you don't agree with - this is how free speech works. You don't like the cartoons - you have the right to express your disagreement. But you don't have the right to take it down regardless how offensive it seems to you.
@Cimbolic Absolutely right, it's not absolute. There are limitations like e.g. legal responsibility for libel. Cartoons though, however offensive, were always regarded as satire. Political satire is very often expressed in form of caricature. Why shouldn't this be allowed for religious satire?
If I drew a picture making fun of a crystal healer I would be justified in doing so. The same applies to you. Sorry if you don't like that but it's one of American's highest values; freedom of speech and expression, and people will die defending it, even the most offensive of it.
The ironic thing here is that these pictures (at least with you) have opened dialog and discussion. Ultimately that should be the goal of any provocative speech. You may be offended but you have responded with thought and words. And a great length of discussion has followed, some good some bad but I think more productive than not. To my knowledge you have not filed suits or threatened violence which tells me that you really do feel that proper discussion is the way to understanding and truth.
You really are showing the problem with religion. If someone wants to draw a picture of Mohammad with a bomb strapped to him, who cares Does it really effect you at all, your faith, etc? Instead of censoring them why not show them how their view is wrong in your opinion and stimulate a discussion. Censoring them only confirms for them that they are right weather they are or not
that would work but in these cases they are not looking for dialogue. They just want an audience. So trying to dialogue with individuals like those is futile. In my opinion.
@desiboyh, in many cases I would agree, but if you have good reasons to believe for example that the teachings of Muhammad are not inline with suicide bombing, then why care what someone thinks. If you educate them and they still want to hold on to their steriotypical views then so it be. I just don't understand why one would take offense.
Actually it does. Just like drawing jewish people being thrown in a gas chamber incites hatred, so does a drawing of Prophet Muhammad (saws) with a bomb on his head. Not only does it continue to mark all Muslims as terrorists, but it also reminds many Muslims of what those terrorists have done and how many MUSLIMS they have killed.
We do show them they are wrong, but that doesn't mean we don't have the right to want it taken out of the public eye.
@DawahFilms I disagree with this assertion. See the problem here is not the image but the interpretation of the image. Beauty being in the eye of the beholder. What if I drew a picture of a muslim tinkering with a bomb?Most would see this as offensive for the same reasons you listed above but what if you flipped the picture and the caption read,Man disarms bomb, saves thousands. Because you find it offensive doesn't entail that they are offensive.This is the problem with the label "hate speech"
So are you trying to say that hate speech is not possible? It has nothing to do with simply being offended. Being offended is a RESULT of what hate speech does, which spreads more hatred of a particular group of people (unjustly might I add). It takes a group of people who are a majority, represents them as the minority that deserves condemnation, and then incites alienation and violence against that group.
@DawahFilms And also look at history. Every group that has been marginalized and discriminated against and eventually found respect did so by standing up and voicing their opinions as well. By trying to silence those who say hurtful things you move from being the victim to being the aggressor, the oppressor. Is that really the way to earn respect?
@DawahFilms And inciting violence IS wrong, I will not contend that. That is where the line in the sand should be. I don't have to like you.(Though I have no reason not to) I don't HAVE to respect you. (Though I should do so anyways) I can say hateful things about you. (I'd be wrong to do so but it'd be just as wrong if I couldn't). But I can't tell people you should be hurt or killed.
@DawahFilms, When someone blows themselves up in the name of Allah that is offensive and deeply disturbing. All peaceful people muslims or other should stand up and denounce such behavior, When one does not perceive muslims standing up against such the natural response is that Islam is a religion of violence. If Jihad is an internal struggle rather than a war waged with "infidels" then people need to know that. Taking offense and censoring does not help. Wouldn't you agree?
Many of us do stand up, just not how you would like us to. We prefer to teach what our religion really says and distance ourselves away from the extremists. In many cases, people want us to take responsibility for what those extremists do, which is why I don't personally get on camera and start saying "Terrorists are evil!".
Jihad is both internal and external, but its external use has limits, which the fanatics don't understand or don't wish to.
@DawahFilms is this the issue here? that by 'terrorists are evil' and such things you feel that you are accepting some responsibility or that your religion is?
"In many cases, people want us to take responsibility for what those extremists do"
Big strawman. Standing up and criticizing it (not just terrorism but also sheiks, imams and clergies who condone or preach hatred against Jews and atheists. Who do teach or condone sexual mutilation and beating your wife, just not too hard etc etc ) is not the same as "taking responsibility".
It's just so telling that many get so heated and outraged when criticized,but are silent about these things
I'm not silent about it at all. My trying to teach what my religion really teaches, that is not me being silent. I just don't choose to stand up every moment that a person claiming to be Muslim commits an atrocity. I don't have to. They aren't me and I'm not them. Our beliefs are different. I am not going to incriminate myself or my religion just to appease people. Nor do I appreciate being labeled like them because I don't act out like you do
"My trying to teach what my religion really teaches, that is not me being silent"
That's the problem. Theists (especially muslim) claim all sort of things about following "true islam" and people "dont know what true islam is". But hardly anybody actually teaches fellow muslims what that should be and to stand up against their own religious bigots (again, moderate muslims and imams, not just terrorists)
I shouldn't be stereotyped. That's the point. I shouldn't be placed in with them because I don't feel like I need to stand up every single time they do something. Hardly anyone teaches them? What do you know?
" I shouldn't be placed in with them because I don't feel like I need to stand"
You show that you (and many others) are pure hypocrites (literally, no insult here)
When muslims speak out, it is almost always to victimize themselves and call people bigots, racists and islamophobes who dont understand islam. This while muslims and muslim leaders have disagreements about how to practice islam and many times it is not the tolerance, respect and peaceful version which many claim.
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FreeThyMind 1 week ago in playlist Free Speech FTW!
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FreeThyMind 1 week ago in playlist Free Speech FTW!
Making fun of and insulting religon (burning the koran, jesus figure in urine, etc) is important because it helps break down the vail of respectability that religon wrongly has. Particularly when done in the face of threats or violence.
JustAnotherGuy186 2 weeks ago in playlist Free Speech FTW!
I'm surprised people would even expect from you to speak out against the actions of the people whose faith you choose to follow, considering what a hateful bigot you are in your videos.
MomoTheBellyDancer 1 year ago
@MomoTheBellyDancer
"hateful bigot"
Assumption without evidence, as usual. Is that all you people have to offer?
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@DawahFilms
"Assumption without evidence"
Your videos are the evidence.
MomoTheBellyDancer 1 year ago
You're metaphors fall flat when one considers that you've neglected your own role in these altercations. If you are inciting people to extreme reactions only to smile smugly and act self righteous. Then by your own assertions, it is up to us to consider why you would. I mean your a positivist, and argue for constructive purposes only, no? So what is dialogue offering us when it involves you? A caricature of a reasonable man offered for self serving ends, and to get attention. Oh well.
kern0099 1 year ago
*~@:-{> Look! I drew 'mo.
yeshuahfullofit 1 year ago
I want to stroke your beard .... BEARD !
Wachi2000 1 year ago
Respect is subjective, freedom of speech is not. Their is no problem drawying Muhammad with a bomb on the head, it beautifully illustrated an important issue, islamic terrorism threat to western societies.
vaju79 1 year ago
Religious satire is not all directed towards offending or demeaning the believers. It is made because it is funny. Many people who are atheists come from families that were very religious. Although they eventually became disillusioned with the religion, they grew up around the imagery of the it. The comedy is about something they know.
jeb31415 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Satan is very smart. He started Islam, which grew very quickly. To balance out all the hate and violence of Islam he then appeared to Joseph Smith and created Mormonism. It is eerie how similar the beginnings of both religions are. Satan has his vinegar and honey methods of attraction covered.
knarfster 1 year ago
If I find U I'll shave that BALL-DUSTER off your face :) lol
icechar88 1 year ago
so you wanna be able to free to limit other people's speech, while wanting to have the freedom to spew your shit.
brownbigb 1 year ago
Yeah this video didn't work.
Izoto593 1 year ago
The bomb cartoon was not made to promote hate against muslims in general, it was a satirical cartoon about terrorists using religious motives for doing what they do.
I know this from an interview with the drawer himself and it has allways been my interpretation as well.
phpeni 1 year ago
People have the right to be offended, as much as the people have the right to be critizizing and/or offending. People may get offended, but is it worth to get so easily offended? Making death threats isn't justified, even though someone tries to mock you with all of their heart. Besides drawing Jesus gay has never caused that much fuzz as the bombheadpicture. The more offended you get the more people try to offend you, at least with the recent islamextremist-cases.
dynamiteshikoku 1 year ago
As an atheist I am insulted every day, I am considered amoral, immoral, not a true patriot (Bush Sr.), and so on...
.
Portrarying Jesus in a bowl of piss is just a mirror to the religion that claims the higher moral ground.
.
And that is the message that totally escapes your indoctrinated mind because you, and your religion, do think and act as if you have the higher moral ground. You don't! Morals do not come from the bible or the quran. I can even let you confess so.
wimahlers 1 year ago
Who gave you the power to decide what freedom of speech is and is not? I agree you have the right your property, the right to be offended and speak out against what you find hateful. You DO NOT have the right to try and censor what u find offensive. People(myself included) WILL shit on your religion just to piss u of and we have every right to do so. Grow the fuck up and get over it.
jack5051525354 1 year ago
YOu are a very smart men, I like some of your videos, but it is obvious that you do not really know what freedom of speech is. look up the debates of the founding fathers (in America) you will see how offensive and vile they were with each other. Making fun of Zeus is free speech!
ceezmad1 1 year ago
I don't think that the drawings of the prophet mohammad are inherently hateful. It might look that way to someone who is a part of the religion, and it is true that a lot of people make these drawing out of disrespect.
What i mean is, even though i can understand your position, i don't think the drawings are always a sign of hate. I try to view them more metaforically as criticism, as cartoons often are.
Zebarbas 1 year ago
You seem like a genuinly nice guy. I am an athiest myself but ive known many islamic men here in Australia. Its tragic that so many are quick to assume that all muslims are hateful fanatics. I commend you on putting these videos up and speaking out despite the fact you are a very small minority on YouTube. It is also a pity that almost all athiests believe it is their duty to almost fanatically speak out againced all religions.
NigelGriff 1 year ago
@NigelGriff,
.
"It is also a pity that almost all athiests believe it is their duty to almost fanatically speak out againced all religions."
.
I indeed speak fanatically out against all religions that try to force a certain life style upon me or criminalize me if I don't follow their dusty set of awkward rules.
Other than that I don't care if someone believes in zeus, allah, god, shiva, ra, a giant turtle or whatever...
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers Im sure you dont have many muslims trying to convert you and force lifestyles upon you in the Netherlands. And all the other religions arnt forcing you into anything.
NigelGriff 1 year ago
@NigelGriff,
.
forces:
The Dutch blasphemy law and the attempt to introduce an international blasphemy law. The demands for the right to wear headscarfs in schools. The abandoning of the piggy bank, 'cause it might hurt some religious feelings. The sharia law in the UK. The cowardly attutude towards the Danish cartoon affair.
.
Even my English muslim acquaintance was complaining that his religion was choking his freedom before his nephew blew up the London underground.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers Sharia law in UK only operates over minor issues such as divorce and financial issues. Divoce can happen much quicker in sharia law than in british law. Concerning the penal system sharia law has no effect. If a muslim wants to have their financial issues heard by an islamic court thats fine, but if they perform a criminal act, they go to a british court. And there is nothing wrong with a headscarf.
NigelGriff 1 year ago
@NigelGriff.
.
What you consider "minor issues" I consider "principal issues". The law should be equal for all and independent of any belief system.
.
Also, the headscarf is extremely offensive to me. It represents the statement that I somehow can not control my animal urges when I happen to see a lady in a bikini. So, I despise everything the headscarf stands for. And yes! I know it was once in fashion and it may become a fasion again. But without the offensive representation please!
wimahlers 1 year ago
@NigelGriff,
.
Not to mention the fact that the sharia law is inherently unjust when it comes to divorce rulings. Even if and when both parties agree. Because a ruling accepted while being under the religious spell is not the basis for justice ever.
wimahlers 1 year ago
The effects of brainwashing....so sad.
danimal24585 1 year ago
Im not sure if this was mentioned before, but you realize yt is a public forum, right? Bigoted douche-bags aside, expecting to express yourself on the internet and not have people screw with you is unreasonable... I mean, seriously, have you been to the internets? Second, you truly see no satiric value in a cartoon of mohammed with a bomb-turban? And sadly you DO NOT have the right to not be offended... It happens, people say things that offend me all the time, but I have no right to gag them.
FlightIsLife 1 year ago
@Quesadilla1773 if Hitler now lived in Holland, he wouldnt get as far as he could in Germany as he did. In Europe the importance of such laws has been influenced by what he did. Currently a public figure here is in court for discrimination, inciting hatred and for demonization of muslims. He might not be convicted, but there is a boundary here to prevent a society and the targeted group from harm.
summersonset 1 year ago
@summersonset,
.
"Currently a public figure here is in court for discrimination, inciting hatred and for demonization of muslims."
.
What did he, Geert Wilders, specifically say and in what context that crossed what boundary?
wimahlers 1 year ago
@Quesadilla1773 its not the governement that does, but a court. This doesnt happen often, mind you, but people (need to) have the right to defend against hatred or discrimination. Actually, the non-discrimination article we (Holland) have is the first article in our constitution. We have as much free speech the US has, actually I live in one the most free countries in the world (more free than USA), so please dont use the censorship card.
summersonset 1 year ago
@Quesadilla1773 there are western countries that have hatespeech laws. Youre not free to hate as you wish, you can *think* all you like, but you cant express all you feel. Free speech doesnt mean you dont have a responsiblity in what you say. People often conveniently 'forget' that.
summersonset 1 year ago
Yeah, people like to use the free speech card for basically everything, to manipulate others with, to provoke, to insult, to hate. I see that as an abuse of free speech. Thumbs up.
summersonset 1 year ago
Freedom of speech does not mean that only the art that doesn't offend you is protected. You made a qualified death threat in your response to thunderf00t. As far as I'm concerned you are a borderline fanatic. If you don't like somebody's work you are free to criticize it. I don't think you censor comments because you are against free speech. I think you do it because you are an intellectual pussy. Anybody who talks about "hate speech" doesn't understand what freedom of speech is.
dlhitch2007 1 year ago
Wow, talk about fucking rambling, you can't cherry pick based on what you feel is "nice" or coherent. Your channel or not. I really don't see the issue with leaving bigotry or silliness on here, surely it only stand to make your points stronger. Unless.... shock, you've actually been called adequately with no retort. You sound like a child, and continue to show your insecurity. Why should we criticise Islam constructively? Your religion perpetuates hatred. You don't deserve the luxury.
blodtang 1 year ago
people dont have a right not to be offended
dusty8512 1 year ago
@dusty8512
That's clearly not true.
You can't force your hatred on me. I'm sorry.
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@DawahFilms it is true you have the right to ignore it and deal with it, but theres no law saying you cant insult someone
dusty8512 1 year ago
@DawahFilms you misunderstand free speech entirely. you think if it offends, it should not be allowed. stop speaking.
brownbigb 1 year ago
@DawahFilms When people are talking, you are free to not listen. Using ones freedom of speech is not "forcing hatred" on others.
TheEfkk 1 year ago
@DawahFilms its not hated its the truth if someone comes to me and says something about my family i can punch that person in the mouth, and possibly go to jail for assualt. or i can be a grown up and ignore the simple bastard. it's my choice to be an adult or i can act like a child
dusty8512 1 year ago
@DawahFilms
No I'm afraid he is right. There is not constitutional right NOT to be offended. The onus is on you to either ignore them or develop thicker skin. Sorry.
Mrwinky92 1 year ago
@Mrwinky92
Actually there is a constitutional right for me not to be harassed by people on my own property or even in public. I can do things like get this thing called a "restraining order" or call the authorities to remove said person from my property.
So yes, I do have a right to be offended in certain circumstances...and no...you don't have the right to impose your spite on me because you're an ignorant piss ant.
DawahFilms 1 year ago
It seems Koran study makes people use plenty word for simple things.
I would like to donate a dollar for a razor blade.
tombatom 1 year ago
Being a jerk is not against the law in my country.
33|:-|>
TheoKluges 1 year ago
Drawing these cartoons is not just an attempt to "be a jerk". And the cartoons prove themselves true when you have Muslims gun down unarmed film directors. (RIP Theo van Gogh) And isn't it interesting Dawah? That the only group of people who reacted with death threats were Muslims in this whole South Park drama? South Park made fun of Jesus and other religious characters and Muslims are the ONLY ONES who react this way.
CaptainFapmore 1 year ago
while I agree that you may moderate your channel and be pissed for people falsly calling you out on not critisizing fanatics, I do think you don't get the thing about free speech right. Drawing mohammed with a bomb on his head is a fair critisizm of people utilizing religion to justify acts of terrorism. Some muslims do this and that's a fact (other dogmatic beliefsystems do the same thing ofc). Who is to say that the person drawing that picture even meant you? You are just interpreting that.
Florence00pi 1 year ago
The bottom line is this: why do so many Muslims believe in censoring criticism of Islam and Muhammed? And do you believe this should be censored?
Ramshobraja 1 year ago
fuck islam .I SHIT ON mohammad AND WIPE MY ASS WITH YOUR KORAN.
chaos9696 1 year ago
You have a pretty gross misunderstanding of freedom of speech if you believe that it entails censoring opposing viewpoints, as you state near the end of your video. Essentially you're advocating free speech, unless you're offended by it, in which case you should be free to silence the person talking. Good luck with that.
eunicron 1 year ago
you need to but some band-aids for your butthurt
spopko 1 year ago
Even words said or actions taken to purposely "piss people off" or even demean a whole people are protected and should be protected as free speech. The line is drawn when speech of any kind *directly* leads to violence. If the line is redrawn to protect anyone from slander, then free speech is at risk entirely. The arena in which assholes should feel the consequences of their actions is the arena of society, not the judicial system.
Matthus8888 1 year ago
I agree that the death threats against the south park creators were out of line. I really think that the issue might be overblown, after all, I have gotten death threats for making youtube videos! So what? That's my first point, the second point is that south park only showed mohammad (in a bear suit) as an insult and provocation to muslims. The attitude that matt and trey have toward muslims is basically open hate.
n8glenn 1 year ago
No, no, no.
Drawing a cartoon of Mohamed does not in any way suggest that Muslims are inferior, less than human, poison, and all sorts of other notions that would actually be hate speech - in the same way that questioning any dogma of Islam cannot be considered hate speech. What is the difference between drawing a Mohamed doodle and questioning any other dogma of Islam.
Also, go ahead on drawing that picture depicting atheists as nazis - I'll defend your legal right to do so. Free speech.
SolRosenberg84 1 year ago
is it ok to keep slaves ? . do ants talk ? do donkeys fly ? are there seven earths ? and seven skys ? does life start as a gushing fluid from between the back bones and ribs ? does the bones of a fetus appear first then covered with flesh ? are there flying carpets ? does drinking camel urine cure any thing ? does the sun set in a muddy creek ? all this and more found in the koran ,, lets debate just the facts of the koran and hadiths,, like al tabri 127 why did he kiss al hussins penis ?
lesterclaypool1 1 year ago
Sleeping giant = The US
Thunderfoot = no god
Shock n' awe = Hiroshima, Nagasaki
Extremism wiped from face of earth = waking the sleeping giant.
Leave youtube.
tr0n001 1 year ago
@tr0n001
If you think Hiroshima and Nagasaki are appropriate responses then I'm sorry, but you're no different than the fanatics.
DawahFilms 1 year ago 6
@DawahFilms Those are not my beliefs, you just seemed confused on thunderfoots video.
tr0n001 1 year ago
@DawahFilms
He never indicated that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were appropriate. It is simply a matter of fact that they have happened and that western nuclear capability has grown exponentially since then. Conventional capability has evolved since then as well. Thunderf00t's analogy of ant vs. sleeping giant is very appropriate given the technological disparity.
BTW I don't support US wars. Good luck to you.
tupelo99 1 year ago
My friend, I believe you miss the point. Freedom of Speech is a boundry that must be continually pushed: Southpark and family guy are two examples of shows who, ON PURPOSE, make fun of everyone from the handicapped to blacks, hispanics, women, politicians...everyone! They do not single out or attack a specific group. Free speech must be for everyone. You made a video with your thoughts and ideas and put it in the public forum and get then angry when you get criticism? Welcome to FREE SPEECH.
papasitoman 1 year ago
If we do not believe in freedom of speech for those we despise we do not believe in it at all. DawahFilms, you do not believe in freedom of speech for those who oppose you. You do not believe in freedom of speech.
daslade22 1 year ago
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, not to there "own" facts.
luc59457 1 year ago 2
Freedom of speech/expression does protect hate speech, just because I say that I hate all dog owners for owning another living being does not make it wrong or illegal, it is my opinion that I am entitled to have & to voice, it only becomes wrong/illegal when I say that if you agree with me should harm dog owners, now I am inciting violence, that is illegal.
AbdultheImpailler 1 year ago
@AbdultheImpailler you may not like me drawing pics of mohammed but I am protected by the law to do so, go ahead, draw a pic of stalin and put my name on it, I won't care in the least. The problem is you don't get it, folks the world over want you moderate muslims to speak up, en masse, against the fundies, and show them for the fools they are, shut them down forever but you don't.
AbdultheImpailler 1 year ago
@AbdultheImpailler Organize your fellow moderates and put a stop to the mullahs promoting jihad against anyone not muslim, it is up to you to do this because you know that anyone outside the muslim religion will not be listened to inside your mosque. We outsiders can not stop the radicals inside your religion and you know that so the ball is in your court, do with what you may...
AbdultheImpailler 1 year ago
You don't really understand what free speech is.
Tlincali 1 year ago 2
hahaha...listen to what this fucking idiot says...fuck you and fuck mohammad...i'll take you both on.
martysaysso 1 year ago
You lost me at 7:00... No you have no idea of what freedom of speech is. Freedom of speech is you have a right to be offended and insulted. Yes I have the right to insult and offend you and you have the right to offend and insult me. I also have the right to hate a concept or a person. No one private citizen or the government has the right to censor what you say. Why does religion always want to be classified as a special exemption to this? BTW - you ramble too much get to the point.
jim6584 1 year ago
The thing is, What if people considered parts of the quran hate speech and wanted it banned? That's why you have the first amendment to prevent such censorship.
Obasiliasfilosofos 1 year ago
massalakallaa shii shi poop fart. That's all I heard. Most assholes make similar noises. I disrespect you, Allah, your book and Muhammad the pedo (poop be upon him).
EnervatedSociety 1 year ago
@DawahFilms
Would you say that a cartoon of a bomb-strapped person doesn't represent one important doctrine of Islam? The cartoon is very relevant to the actual 'duty' of Muslims, namely Jihad (and is not really comparable to "Jesus in a jar of urine", which has no relevance to the Christian beliefs and no satiric value).
mirandansa 1 year ago
@mirandansa
Are you saying that I should interpret my religion that way and go blow myself up?
How kind of you.
And no, that is not what Islam teaches.
DawahFilms 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DawahFilms
« Are you saying that I should interpret my religion that way and go blow myself up? »
No. That's what some people who claim to be a true Muslim would say to you. And their beliefs have stronger, harmful political implications. This is what has been motivating those cartoonists. They are not simply being a jerk; they are trying to raise people's awareness in an accessible way of what those 'true' Muslims believe.
« that is not what Islam teaches »
... according to you.
mirandansa 1 year ago
@DawahFilms does nt islam teach to follow your prohets living examples ? if so you must relise he had 800 beheaded , he raided 28 caravans ,, he took slaves ,, he taught it was ok to lie to those your about to torture and kill ,, he told his men to drink camel urine ,, he kissed alhussins penis and front of 23 of his men ,, ,ect ect ,, if you would like the hadiths or sura just ask ,, so you agree with this ?
lesterclaypool1 1 year ago 4
@lesterclaypool1
Let's just be honest. You have never approached Islam from the perspective of Muslims and only get your information off of anti-Muslim websites, correct?
Be balanced in your approach and you'll be able to answer your own loaded questions.
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@DawahFilms no your wrong and if you like we can start at the koran or the hadiths or the abrogated verses ,,, but i can show totally incorrect suras , and historical facts about your prophet that show he is not a holy man , and every single thing i have listed is backed by fact and found in your books ,,, so how could this be anti islamic ? i bet i know your koran better than you ,,, lets debate the facts ,, this is what i do ,,, so are the stars missles to hurl at satan ?
lesterclaypool1 1 year ago
@DawahFilms and as i said ,,, ARE YOU TO FOLLOW YOUR PROPHET EXAMPLES IN LIFE ? simple question really no secret meaning ,,, just straight forward ,,, dont like the truth ? dont care !
lesterclaypool1 1 year ago
@DawahFilms
« You have never approached Islam from the perspective of Muslims »
And that approach SHOULD respect the fact that the Quran unambiguously commands the annihilation of non-Muslims by means of violence. You are the one who are diverging from that truly Islamic perspective in favor of the modern secular moral framework; you are other than a true Muslim (which is good for both you and the rest of your society).
mirandansa 1 year ago
@DawahFilms you speak arabic right ... or at least read it right ,,, well please tell us this word and its meaning BADYA ,,,, now tell us what dahaha means ,,, now tell me the koran does say the earths flat ,,, a ostrich nest is not round is it ? no its not ,,, and you are completely wrong about where i get my info from , i just read the koran this will be number 19 ,,, it easy to see you dont comprehend what you read in arabic its lovely poetry but it does hold water for truth
lesterclaypool1 1 year ago
@DawahFilms but is he wrong and just speaking bs or is he right
dusty8512 1 year ago
@lesterclaypool1 when prayer was given to Prpht Muhammed (saw) drinking alcohol was not permitted a lot of things happened before the compilation of islam that islam haterz look at there was a non-believer always put junk out the prophets house bcs he didnt lik the prophet & he would do this everyday the prophet would take the junk to the side everyday one day that non-believer was ill one day and wasnt able to put junk there and the prophet was worried bcs he didnt see the junk and visited him
vitovito123 1 month ago
@mirandansa I believe that is the Taliban you are refering to, but I could be mistaken
slycooper112 1 year ago
@mirandansa The definition of Jihad is to struggle, not blow someone up. It is not one of the 5 original pillars of Islam. If you think that this kind of language is only in the Quran then you need to read Luke 19:27But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. This is what Jesus(pbuh) said to his disciples. I think you need to do some more research.
zawjatsaid1 1 year ago
@zawjatsaid1
« The definition of Jihad is to struggle, not blow someone up. »
You simply uttered a general definition of the Arabic word "jihad", not what is entailed in the Islamic idiom "al-jihad fi sabil Allah" (striving in the way of Allah).
« you need to read Luke »
Yes, both Islam and Christianity endorse violence against non-believers.
« I think you need to do some more research. »
I think you need to think more before assuming every anti-Islam-ist is pro-Christian.
mirandansa 1 year ago
@mirandansa I never said anyone was pro anything. Im just stating facts. These facts that people like to over look. If you think about it, to many people are quick to jump up and say, "see look at what is happening, this mean Islam is evil." That is not true, what it means is that "person" did something evil. That is my point.
zawjatsaid1 1 year ago
@zawjatsaid1
« I never said anyone was pro anything. »
Then what's the point of bringing up Luke? We are talking about Islam.
« quick to jump up and say, "see look at what is happening, this mean Islam is evil." »
Islam is evil for what it scripturally (prescriptively) endorses. Many Muslims may of course not be evil. And they are not true Muslims as they don't fully practice what Allah (i.e. Muhammad) asks to, due to their secularization.
mirandansa 1 year ago
@mirandansa I brought up Luke to show you that it is not just Islam that has a past that called for blood shed. Islam is not an evil religion. You dont seem to much about it so I would research it before you just throw out the same ole thing that every sheeple say.
zawjatsaid1 1 year ago
@zawjatsaid1
« I brought up Luke to show you that it is not just Islam that has a past that called for blood shed. »
And? What's the point of equating Islam to Christianity? That's like saying "It's not only Hitler who carried out genocide, but Mussolini did to", failing to make a relevant point.
'Past'? No. Islam is *contemporaneously* influencing many people into believing that they can kill non-Muslims for the sake of their religion.
mirandansa 1 year ago
@mirandansa Like I said you dont seem to know much. Islam is not influencing anyone, people are and they are extremists. There are those kind of people everywhere in every religion.
zawjatsaid1 1 year ago
« Islam is not influencing anyone, people are and they are extremists. »
If Islam didn't exist, those extremists wouldn't have existed in the first place. Islam is the primary influence for them.
« you dont seem to know much. »
I know the causality between Islam and Al Qaeda, Taliban, etc.
« There are those kind of people everywhere in every religion. »
So what? That's like saying "there are rapers in every country", which doesn't make rapers any less evil than they are.
mirandansa 1 year ago
@mirandansa So by what you are saying then if Christianity didnt exist then the extremist wouldnt either. You are sounding more and more like an idiot. Waste of my time.
zawjatsaid1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@zawjatsaid1
« So by what you are saying then if Christianity didnt exist then the extremist wouldnt either. »
Yes. If Christianity didn't exist, the Crusades or the current Christian militia wouldn't have existed.
« You are sounding more and more like an idiot. »
It's more idiotic to say that Al Qaeda would have existed if Islam didn't exist.
mirandansa 1 year ago
Wow, you sooo remind me of Venomfangx when you speak.
joyork 1 year ago 7
@joyork
Stop projecting.
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@joyork Difference seems to be that he doesn't seem to hate others
theromanian19 1 year ago
@joyork
No, seriously, the comparison does not work.
jeb31415 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If you muslims hate the western definition of freedom of speech, then why dont you move to islamic countries, where freedom of speech is defined as the freedom to bash USA and Israel and giving those countries the fault for all the crimes done by muslims??
BTW: This is the prophet muhammad:
☻/
/▌
/ \
What are you going to do??
Its just a fucking cartoon, retards.
cyberweirdo2001 1 year ago
He you derkaderka idiot!
Your silly retard ideology´ll perish! And NOW you´ve a lot more enemies! Up to now i was realy moderaste towards religiots and their lunatic world view. This has changed.
You want a theocarzy? Then STFU and leave you parasite! You fu$% imbecile dare to question the scientific method and everything that comes with it?
I´ll personally be delighted if you idiots perish!
0PsycoDad0 1 year ago
@0PsycoDad0
Well well, another fanatic in our midst.
DawahFilms 1 year ago
freedom of speech and the 1st amendment protects "offensive" speech. thats why it was made, nice speech needs no protection. it is offensive speech that is being protected. if i draw mohammad with a bomb it is because im making a statement of what i see or experience. art can be a lie or truth but its still art and subject to interpretation by many ways. yes its okay to disrespect, im sure iraqis would have love to have this right against saddam
rickru1 1 year ago
its easy to condemn if its just one person. the thing is u need to organize your fellow muslims be it family , friends, mosque ect. and condemn it as a group. these radicals r speaking for your religion and so long as "moderate muslims" do not speak out against it then we weterners will view it as moderates agreeing with the radicals.
rickru1 1 year ago
You don't have the right to not be offended. You don't have the right to impose religious morality on others who aren't members of your religion. You may find things offensive, but telling me they are objectively morally wrong and that freedom of speech equates to your ideologies, is offensive to me.
Those people who create those drawings, are standing up for freedom in a non violent direct way. The message is simple, that your religions have no power over us, no matter how much you believe.
Nocturnous 1 year ago
Now, Dawah what i want to know is, is it true that Muhammad married a 6 yr old and then consumated the marriage when she was nine.
crackerkiller89 1 year ago
re: speaking out
First off, I want to say that I don't think you are a terrorist sympathizer or a bad person in any way.
That said, whether you chose it or not, whether it is fair or not, you share an affiliation with people that are doing some terrible things. I honestly feel that it is the DUTY of all good people to speak out against such acts, ESPECIALLY when they share an affiliation, however superficial or tenuous.
(cont)
ikvsabre 1 year ago
(cont)
I think it's safe to say that you view the threats made against South Park as a perversion of your faith. Well, if you don't speak out against it (which is your right), then your faith will be stained by their actions; I'm not saying it's fair, I'm saying it's a FACT.
(cont)
ikvsabre 1 year ago
(cont)
I feel the same way about Catholics that are not now vociferously demanding their leadership to change their policies re: the molestation scandals.
What they bullies say and do is not your fault. But to do nothing is to provide tacit approval. Not fair, but true.
Life is not "fair", it just is.
ikvsabre 1 year ago
It's not so much that we are trying to insight hatred so much as to not bow down to their wishes. They want to keep us from drawing Muhammad, and we say YOU CAN'T STOP US. You can't force people to not draw something just because someone else considers it sacred. Also the point is to at least attempt to give these people a wake -up call that we are not willingly to be silent and let them go on threatening us the way they do.
riseofatheism 1 year ago
I do also agree with the last thing you said at least in part. But I do think that you SHOULD be allowed to draw whatever you want.
riseofatheism 1 year ago
No disagreement here. I think you have every right to block who you want. I also agree that you don't have to address the fundies of your religion, but I am glad you did.
riseofatheism 1 year ago
I agree with most of what you say except the ending: You have the right to be offended and to give your opinion about the offender retaliate with words, but you don't have the right to threaten with any physical action. And this is what happened in the whole south park issue.
wonderpope 1 year ago
I am on a weird mental see-saw here...
On one hand, atheists don't riot or murder people over cartoons like Darwin as a monkey or portraying all atheists as Stalin, & I understand the urge to draw the anti-Islamic cartoons, spit in the face of the Jihadist & shout "I do not fear you." (I would explain to them, the damage they do to their own position in turning much of the world against them & against Islam itself, but I do not believe they would understand.)
athywren 1 year ago
On the other, as you say, disrespect breeds disrespect, hatred breeds hatred, misunderstanding breeds misunderstanding.
To portray all [religious group] as maniacs because of the actions of certain [religous members] is ludicrous.
I cannot say that I believe any religion is more than fable & fairytale mixed with fantasy, but I do know that there are people who benefit from it and who are hurt the constant two-way barrage of hatred which bounces off the extremist... eh.
Madness. Hooray humanity.
athywren 1 year ago
I am equal to all people (Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc.) CAN YOU MAKE A VIDEO looking into the camera and saying, "Brother Muslims we are equal to all people including those of the Jewish faith and Christian faith." This way people would open up. So far, if I Youtube around, I see more videos of hate from the Muslim population. I know there may be filtering. But guide us to other resources so we have an open mind.
BushidoCode72 1 year ago
Agreed that besides orthodox islamists (terrorists) there are also nice fellas like u, but the point is that the qu'ran is full of absurdities (or bull crap) & both believe in imaginary beings and places... and suffering from psychotic religionism and delusion. I think the reason people make fun of you're imaginary friends and ideas (mohamed being the exception) is because they realize how ridiculous your belief systems are., and not through hate... but rather pity and ridicule.
gesuimmaginario 1 year ago
Well here's one non-theist that has nothing to say but... Brilliantly well thought out response! And great video!
Favorited! ;)
myintellectualjourny 1 year ago
If SP mocks Christ some Xian may threaten violence, but hes not taken seriously. Yet when SP draws Muhammad, CC is so afraid of reprisals they refuse it. Its actually CC that need be shown how to defend free speech, & its they we hope to teach when we post intentionally offensive art of Muhammad. Go ahead & draw atheist Stalin (PBUH) Find the most offensive claim against atheism you can & post it. Your idea may be right or wrong, the subtext valid or invalid. Either way, THAT'S free speech.
gamutman 1 year ago
i liked most of what you were saying in this video, and up until about 7 minutes in a broadly agreed with the sentiments. i will be doing a response to this video in the next day or two, in the hope that you and i may have a constructive conversation with the hope of making some of the blurred lines more distinct.
peace.
gothatfunk 1 year ago
@gothatfunk I agree. I want to do a video response to this as well. I can't wait to see yours as I really value your opinion.
SavvyDrifter 1 year ago
You look kinda like a muslim... is that good or bad? I forget which ones we're supposed to shoot because they are going to destroy america... hang on let me turn on Fox News... brb... Damnit is it muslims or Israelis or mexicans that are bad? arghhh it's so hard to keep track of all this stuff... Let me give Sean Hannity a call - he always seems to know what to do... If we had some kind of basic picture of what bad guys look like we could just cut through all this confusion...
antibrainwash 1 year ago
I'm subscribing to your channel!!! Typically i go to Canadian Muslim Congress when looking for moderated views.
Nice point about adding concepts of respect, property in addition to freespeech. ;)
truevoiceofsanity 1 year ago
DawahFilms, I would recommend you get off YouTube as quickly as possible, there seems to be nothing but neo-cons around these parts, it's really quite scary and thoroughly disturbing.
Their philosophy, or their way of dealing with those embodying a different set of values or beliefs is something like: "Me no like, me call names, me kill." As they stomp around convinced of their own superiority. RUN DAWAH RUN!!!
GalileanGuy 1 year ago
You're absolutely right that you have no obligation to condemn terrorism simply due to the fact that you share a religion with terrorists who use that religion to justify their terrorism. Others also have no obligation to assume that you don't share those views. If "peace loving" Muslims were half as vocal as the extremists in their opposition to extremism the assumption would be reversed. "Moderate" Muslims have only themselves to blame for the contrary.
TheNakedAtheist 1 year ago
Continued...
Oh, and please if you respond to this comment don't try to feed me the line that Muslims do speak out, but the media doesn't cover it. I have repeatedly made the effort over the years to seek out such condemnation, and they are few, and far between, and normally full of equivocations, and excuses. Rather like a Christian condemning killing an abortion doctor, but the adding that abortion is murder after all, and it's only natural that some people are going to take that seriously.
TheNakedAtheist 1 year ago
Continued...
There are no justifications, or mitigating circumstances for the use of terrorism, or death threats against people for exercising their speech NO MATTER how offensive you may find it, and making excuses is for it is essentially what you do in the second half of this video. If you label speech "hate", or "disrespectful" then you are in a sense giving license to terrorists to respond to it in ways that are unacceptable.
TheNakedAtheist 1 year ago
Continued...
In conclusion what I hear from you in this video with your support for "boycotts" in an attempt to stifle, and removed certain speech is SUPPORT for the terrorists goals if not their methods, and the real danger to free speech is not the method, but the goal itself.
TheNakedAtheist 1 year ago
@TheNakedAtheist
""Moderate" Muslims have only themselves to blame"
100% agree
It's rather naive to think people will respect muslims when they
- usually dont practive their faith like they claim (respectful to other religions, apostates, atheists and generally everybody who doesnt cover up their wife's hair/body and doesnt lock up their wife to "protect" them from the evil world outside)
- get outraged over critiques and cartoons
- but are indifferent about their own bigots and bigotry
ReligionInTheBin 1 year ago
@JohnHenryAlex
No he's a hypocrite he just removes comments that disagree with him. I recently made a comment about Hitler being a Christian, I was obviously disagreeing with him, it was completely respectful and he just sent me a message throwing a hissy fit saying I was wrong and I didn't know what I was talking about and removed my comment.
Its whatever though!
bananabread119 1 year ago
Well stated. *****
JeffTheCanuck2 1 year ago
Do your part
☻/ This is Islam's prophet Muhammad.
/▌
/ \ Copy & paste if you value liberty.
TearsOfWar1 1 year ago
How about this one... Im offended by Islam, the prophet and his (true) followers. Now try to apply your own line (of reasoning). How will it work out? ;-)
Wrath0fKhan 1 year ago
You´re absolutely right.
They have the right to take it to court if they think it is really calling people to act in a violent way for example. Or if it is racist in nature. Or for any other reason, but it will probably (hopefully!)not suffice as a reason to remove the content.
The most appalling is the double standard... Ever saw content being removed because of hatred against atheists? Islam and christianity are by definition insulting towards atheists:
watch?v=E8KoNBwIcvI
ReligionInTheBin 1 year ago
An excellent analysis. I am in complete agreement.
Just forwarded to you part 1 or the 2-part video I made earlier today.
Cimbolic 1 year ago
This sounds like Fox News says: I am all for free speech, but not on Dec 25 as it's Christmas. What prompted the picture of Muhammad with a bomb? Fiction? No, it was a reaction to reality, which is what cartoons and caricatures normally are.
StopSpamming1 1 year ago
@StopSpamming1
And what reality would that be? The "reality" that all Muslims are terrorist?
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@DawahFilms
I'd think that it refers to Islam promoting violence in one way or another, in other words, criticism directed towards the religion and not to the believers, and there is an actual difference there.
GrottoFace 1 year ago
@DawahFilms
Oh my, you are touchy! You must have had some bad experiences with people here.
No, definitely not. I grew up in Tehran, worked in UAE and Afghanistan and have met wonderful people and have Muslim friends. No, definitely not all Muslims.
Muhammad wrote a book that easily allows extremism. It is being exploited and abused. Used to commit atrocities both in physical violence and intellectual suppression.
99% of Muslims lead a peaceful and happy life. An ignorant life.
StopSpamming1 1 year ago
To take down something you don't like is censorship and therefore violation of the right of free speech. To stand up and to speak against an idea you don't like or you don't agree with - this is how free speech works. You don't like the cartoons - you have the right to express your disagreement. But you don't have the right to take it down regardless how offensive it seems to you.
There is no discussion. Live with that.
yegorletoff 1 year ago
@yegorletoff
Actually, it is the right of property or whether one can have a forum to express that speech.
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@yegorletoff
Ali is correct in his video. Freedom of Speech is not absolute.
Cimbolic 1 year ago
@Cimbolic Absolutely right, it's not absolute. There are limitations like e.g. legal responsibility for libel. Cartoons though, however offensive, were always regarded as satire. Political satire is very often expressed in form of caricature. Why shouldn't this be allowed for religious satire?
yegorletoff 1 year ago
If I drew a picture making fun of a crystal healer I would be justified in doing so. The same applies to you. Sorry if you don't like that but it's one of American's highest values; freedom of speech and expression, and people will die defending it, even the most offensive of it.
DiwataMan 1 year ago
The ironic thing here is that these pictures (at least with you) have opened dialog and discussion. Ultimately that should be the goal of any provocative speech. You may be offended but you have responded with thought and words. And a great length of discussion has followed, some good some bad but I think more productive than not. To my knowledge you have not filed suits or threatened violence which tells me that you really do feel that proper discussion is the way to understanding and truth.
cowboycoco 1 year ago
You really are showing the problem with religion. If someone wants to draw a picture of Mohammad with a bomb strapped to him, who cares Does it really effect you at all, your faith, etc? Instead of censoring them why not show them how their view is wrong in your opinion and stimulate a discussion. Censoring them only confirms for them that they are right weather they are or not
4McClain 1 year ago
@4McClain
that would work but in these cases they are not looking for dialogue. They just want an audience. So trying to dialogue with individuals like those is futile. In my opinion.
desiboyh 1 year ago
@desiboyh, in many cases I would agree, but if you have good reasons to believe for example that the teachings of Muhammad are not inline with suicide bombing, then why care what someone thinks. If you educate them and they still want to hold on to their steriotypical views then so it be. I just don't understand why one would take offense.
4McClain 1 year ago
@4McClain
Because it leads to a majority of people passing laws against Muslims and hurting them?
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@4McClain
Actually it does. Just like drawing jewish people being thrown in a gas chamber incites hatred, so does a drawing of Prophet Muhammad (saws) with a bomb on his head. Not only does it continue to mark all Muslims as terrorists, but it also reminds many Muslims of what those terrorists have done and how many MUSLIMS they have killed.
We do show them they are wrong, but that doesn't mean we don't have the right to want it taken out of the public eye.
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@DawahFilms I disagree with this assertion. See the problem here is not the image but the interpretation of the image. Beauty being in the eye of the beholder. What if I drew a picture of a muslim tinkering with a bomb?Most would see this as offensive for the same reasons you listed above but what if you flipped the picture and the caption read,Man disarms bomb, saves thousands. Because you find it offensive doesn't entail that they are offensive.This is the problem with the label "hate speech"
cowboycoco 1 year ago
@cowboycoco
So are you trying to say that hate speech is not possible? It has nothing to do with simply being offended. Being offended is a RESULT of what hate speech does, which spreads more hatred of a particular group of people (unjustly might I add). It takes a group of people who are a majority, represents them as the minority that deserves condemnation, and then incites alienation and violence against that group.
Which it has. Look at Europe.
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@DawahFilms And also look at history. Every group that has been marginalized and discriminated against and eventually found respect did so by standing up and voicing their opinions as well. By trying to silence those who say hurtful things you move from being the victim to being the aggressor, the oppressor. Is that really the way to earn respect?
cowboycoco 1 year ago
@DawahFilms And inciting violence IS wrong, I will not contend that. That is where the line in the sand should be. I don't have to like you.(Though I have no reason not to) I don't HAVE to respect you. (Though I should do so anyways) I can say hateful things about you. (I'd be wrong to do so but it'd be just as wrong if I couldn't). But I can't tell people you should be hurt or killed.
cowboycoco 1 year ago
@DawahFilms, When someone blows themselves up in the name of Allah that is offensive and deeply disturbing. All peaceful people muslims or other should stand up and denounce such behavior, When one does not perceive muslims standing up against such the natural response is that Islam is a religion of violence. If Jihad is an internal struggle rather than a war waged with "infidels" then people need to know that. Taking offense and censoring does not help. Wouldn't you agree?
4McClain 1 year ago
@4McClain
Many of us do stand up, just not how you would like us to. We prefer to teach what our religion really says and distance ourselves away from the extremists. In many cases, people want us to take responsibility for what those extremists do, which is why I don't personally get on camera and start saying "Terrorists are evil!".
Jihad is both internal and external, but its external use has limits, which the fanatics don't understand or don't wish to.
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@DawahFilms is this the issue here? that by 'terrorists are evil' and such things you feel that you are accepting some responsibility or that your religion is?
BandwagonObscura 1 year ago
@BandwagonObscura sorry that should be *by saying 'terrorists are evil'
BandwagonObscura 1 year ago
@DawahFilms
"In many cases, people want us to take responsibility for what those extremists do"
Big strawman. Standing up and criticizing it (not just terrorism but also sheiks, imams and clergies who condone or preach hatred against Jews and atheists. Who do teach or condone sexual mutilation and beating your wife, just not too hard etc etc ) is not the same as "taking responsibility".
It's just so telling that many get so heated and outraged when criticized,but are silent about these things
ReligionInTheBin 1 year ago
@ReligionInTheBin
I'm not silent about it at all. My trying to teach what my religion really teaches, that is not me being silent. I just don't choose to stand up every moment that a person claiming to be Muslim commits an atrocity. I don't have to. They aren't me and I'm not them. Our beliefs are different. I am not going to incriminate myself or my religion just to appease people. Nor do I appreciate being labeled like them because I don't act out like you do
If you don't like it, too bad.
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@DawahFilms
"My trying to teach what my religion really teaches, that is not me being silent"
That's the problem. Theists (especially muslim) claim all sort of things about following "true islam" and people "dont know what true islam is". But hardly anybody actually teaches fellow muslims what that should be and to stand up against their own religious bigots (again, moderate muslims and imams, not just terrorists)
"If you don't like it, too bad"
Nope,you seem to be annoyed to be stereotyped
ReligionInTheBin 1 year ago
@ReligionInTheBin
I shouldn't be stereotyped. That's the point. I shouldn't be placed in with them because I don't feel like I need to stand up every single time they do something. Hardly anyone teaches them? What do you know?
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@DawahFilms
" I shouldn't be placed in with them because I don't feel like I need to stand"
You show that you (and many others) are pure hypocrites (literally, no insult here)
When muslims speak out, it is almost always to victimize themselves and call people bigots, racists and islamophobes who dont understand islam. This while muslims and muslim leaders have disagreements about how to practice islam and many times it is not the tolerance, respect and peaceful version which many claim.
ReligionInTheBin 1 year ago