Game Geeks #116 Changeling by White Wolf Games

[iwantausernamenow333]

I really dont see ALL the darkness and "angst" in changeling...i have read all nine books, and its seems to me to be 50% dark and 50% light/wonder. It's called "a game of beauitful madness" for a reason after all. I also don't think that this game is the DARKEST of the WOD games, i would say vampire wins that prize, as there is much more hope in changling. Vampire (which i also like) is more "well threre is goncalda (or whatever its called) but that may be a myth, so your kinda boned..."

[DeIdeal]

The cover is absolutely awful (can't really see that in the video), but the game itself is... interesting.

[physalis17]

This sounds interesting. Is it similar to Little Fears?

[eberik]

Personally I wouldn't say Cthulhu like, that's a bit far for what they are. And as far as the "rape" theme, never saw it like that, and neither have any of my players.... ever. I mentioned that comment to them and they were all kinda.... wtf?

[extragunbon]

@eberik I think he meant rape as in violated, being not physically, but mentally forced to change, transformed or distorted. I'm not sure if that's how you understood it or not, but, just throwing it out there.

[isaacbod]

I miss Changling the Dreaming, I liked how the original ideas didn't force feed your WoD angst, I can't say I like the retooling, they just made Changling as dark and phobic was the rest, not a big selling point here.

[Kogerii]

Changeling and Promethean are the two games that tempt me most. The tone of the setting, themes, and how your character's progression is more metaphysical than "he can kill more" really appeal to me.

I've fun w/videogames like Icewind Dale, Diablo, and Fallout 3 but if I was going to play an RPG it would be for the fantastical-story aspect. Changeling has a narrative potential that resonates w/me more than dungeon crawling.

[bluenile1000]

changeling nd werewolf r white wolves best game . They both use unique ideas and awsome characters . Im sad that there wont be anymore changling books published

[jfridy]

I still say the best White wolf game was Adventure! Tales of the Aeon Society.  I'm still trying to get my main GM to try a Wraith game though.

[Dasharr]

Re all the comments about Changeling being too dark: it has a special kind of darkness because it's theme of surviving abuse is closer to real life than the other WoD games. On the other hand, Changelings aren't necessarily doomed like, say, vampires; their problems tend to be more internal than having to drink blood or avoid sunlight. You could run a Changeling game about inspirational stories of courage over adversity just as well as you could could do grim tales of angst.

[YourProfessor]

Too be honest, I view it as being more grim and dark rather then angsty. To be honest,, I think the people have pretty good reason to be a bit angsty.

[ArchArturo]

@Dasharr, the last thing I need is another White Wolf game with "OMG angst!".

[ArcaneArts]

@ArchArturo So, don't play it with Angst. Your character may have issues, but you can emphasize positives just as easily.

[ironwhim42]

I play Changeling regularly, and I'd go so far as to say that it is the best thing White Wolf has ever put out (and very much the best of the new line). For all it's dark weirdness, there's a very human wonder that fills it as well, making it simultaneously more and less dark (or would that be more highly contrasted) than their other games.

[Jimalcoatl]

Changeling was my first nWoD game. I chose it because as Kurt mentioned it was the most different from its oWoD counterpart.

A good film to see what Changeling is like (minus all the fairy tale stuff) is Dark City. Check it out, mix in old fairy tales (the scary ones, not disney) and you have a pretty solid idea what changeling is like

[Bobbo110]

*nods* It is very dark... but you can make it a little lighter if you want to by making it less about remembering what happened and more about rebuilding a new life/living a new life or retaking you old life/try to live your old life. I found that the book "Neverwhere" by Neil Gaiman is a good inspiration for a not as dark Changeling game. Gaiman is overall a good inspiration for Changeling IMHO. It can be less about victims and more about people living in a strange dark "fairy tale" world.

[ironwhim42]

Neverwhere makes a great basis for a Changeling game. The key is that it's more fairy tales and madness than it is pure horror.

[dyreno]

From the description, it sounds like a SPAWN kind of game. Not sure why that came to mind.

[BillionSix]

I agree that Changeling is very dark. But I think there is a hopeful strain to it. It's like, I was kidnapped and abused, and my life stolen, but I escaped, and I have the ability to rebuild. To create a new life. Unlike, say, Vampire, where the only thing to look forward to is a downward spiral into predatory bestiality or cold-hearted survival.

[fathead8489]

I love white wolf. I love everything they make.

[lampdevil]

Funny to see this pop up when our local Changeling LARP has gotten restarted! It's a fantastic game if you've got mature players, you're right. It's rich in storytelling possibility. It is, fundamentally, a scary kind of game. Go into it knowing that, and you'll have a good time.

[sandro135426]

I do not agree. Yes the book is realy good.

Yes it's dark. But the main theme of the game isn't "rape" but madness. Yes all Changelings are scared, their mind or/and bodies has been raped, broken by the Fae. But the theme isn't about this breaking, it's mostly about the result. For the wounds in one soul and body and for the madness wispering in the back of you mind. There is even mechanich in the game that show how much in touch with reality you are.

[Jackth71]

So Kurt, is this one to steal elements from & create your own world? Or do you think that the story elements are far too entrenched within the campaign world?

The review is very spot on & I do like the game but I'm skeptical that the game could be played by a regular group of table top rpgers.

[lampdevil]

I once reccomended the core book to a friend of mine for the sake of interesting brainstorming, as the book is chock full of interesting concepts. You could easily take aspects of the Hedge and do something fun with that, or use the "incomprehensible things from beyond reality" angle for fey creatures... I don't know. Ideas can come from anywhere, right?

[walt776]

This game sounds like a drag. "Hey guys, tonight let's play a game where you're kidnapped, raped (figuratively) and scarred by fairies!" I think gaming should be about having fun. Yeah, I know there are a few people out there who say it is about "collective storytelling," but usually they're the same people who want to discuss the literary merits of Star Wars.

As far as changelings, Michael Swanwick's novel "The Iron Dragon's Daughter" is the best treatment on the matter: Its dark, but fun.

[sureshot73A]

I don't like his recent reviews at all. They start coming across less as a review and more of a blog. Too much "I like this" and "I don't like that" and not enough explanation of the game. Spends too much time dwelling on how dark the game is. I respect the time and effort in he puts into the reviews yet the feel to me anyway like their missing something he had in his previous reviews. Their not bad or good or as a freind of mine said they come across as irrevalent to the game at hand imo

[walt776]

Yeah, because the last thing review are about is giving opinions :P

[sureshot73A]

Nothing wrong with giving opinions in a review. It's when the review becomes only opinions. For the most part this one is too much opinion. Check his older reviews they were imo a lot better then the recent ones. The newer ones just seem too shallow. More like listenising to someone give a video blog about the game rather then a review.

[sureshot73A]

First off I find it very funny that some posters go around calling this game and other WOD darkness gaes "too darK". Correct me if I'm wrong but is not the entire universe called World of Darkness. What do you expect Care bears or My little Pony. That like saying one likes Tolkien yet hates D&D because it os not a Tolkien clone.

[X0oMALKAVo0X]

You' re pulling things out of context here.

There's a huge difference in saying ' This game is too dark ' or ' This game has a dark atmosphere that's not exactly my kind of picknick'. It is a horror game, so they upped the ante compared to Changeling the Dreaming. I think we can all agree on the fact that the newWod Changeling is much more loyal to the WoD, but in the end it all boils down to affection with a setting and feel.

[X0oMALKAVo0X]

I can only agree that this game has a depressing atmosphere, a tat too much considering my own taste.

I liked the oldWoD Changeling a lot more, even if it was a bit 'out there'. An ' invisible' High Fantasy world parallel with the WoD.. It wasn't horror,.. Changeling 2.0 is...

Could we consider this review as a negative one? If it was, very political correct job! ;-D ( you didn't bash anything )

[Vampir5]

Strange... I thought Werewolf was a rather big departure from the old one...

[DrakeNovum]

Man, this video has some really crappy audio editing. The pauses during the showcasing of the other various White Wolf products is so noticeable that I at first wondered if the clip was glitching or something.

[damniampretty]

Wouldn't mind running it if I had a group mature enough for it. Very pretty book though.

[YourProfessor]

Oh wow, I'm a die hard Call of Cthulhu fan, but this looks really good.

[Jeffrywith1e]

Wow, this sounds much darker than the original Changeling game. The original was like WoD lite.

[nozzer2002]

thanks for the review Kurt, i think i will give it a miss sounds to dark for me

[Webhead123]

Very interesting review. I think I like the styles and themes of Changeling: The Dreaming more than this edition but I have heard good things about it and it does sound like a unique role playing experience. Still, it sounds like it dwells a bit too much on the darker melodrama for my personal tastes. I also don't think I like the idea of Fae being Cthuloid type monsters. Weird.

[sandro135426]

Yeh they are Cthulhu like but not in appearance but in their mindset. In other words they are nothing like us, they are terrible, they are beautiful, they are cruel, they are forgiving, but they are not human. They may appear, even act like one, but they are not. They are creatures born from madness. Broken mirrors - beautiful and shiny but still broken.

Plus If you don't like melodrama just make a action session in wich the characters face the Wild Hunt. It will continue around 5 secounds :D

[highpriestrsw2]

Changeling the Dreaming was more urban fantasy. Changeling the lost is something very Clive Barker-esque. It's very dark and there is a sense of hopelessness to it. The constant fear of reprisal is a central theme of the book. They did a great job with this entire series of books.

[MorrowTHEjedi]

Great review Kurt! Im unsure about your statement about Changeling being the most different from the original WOD... Mage takes the cake in my opinion.

[KitFoxtrot]

My wife and I both agree: Changeling may be dark, but Promethean still holds the record for 'Darkest Game Evah!'

[MhicWombat]

What I find fascinating with this review versus my group who plays Changeling is that while we have darkness in our game, certainly, we have a great sense of wonder and empowerment. It is probably the deepest game in the NWoD line.

[Percypl]

Hmm...this one looks interesting. I really liked Changeling: the Dreaming, possibly because personally I found that my personality suited a (seelie) changeling more than it suited anything else. I'd certainly give the new game a try.

[aderier]

i have never played WoD, but I would one day like to. what i need is a group that can meet something like 5-7 times a week so we can just play through a bunch of games and settings.

[ArchArturo]

I just LOVE this game, in particular.

Ever since the new WoD line came out, I was expecting Werewolf, but it came kinda bland and sad to my taste. But when I saw Changeling, I flipped through it, and I just loved it.

I'll be honest, I never liked The Dreaming. I thought it was too silly, but this game just screams "WoD" in it in so many ways.

It need not be that dark, though. Your character, if possible, can kill the fetch and retake the life. It's hard, but it's possible.

[ArchArturo]

A good theme song is the lullaby of Pan's Labyrinth.

[knightoffrost]

Personally, I love the themes of Changeling: the Lost. Out of all of the NWOD lines, I would LOVE to play in a game of Changeling. I think it is one of White Wolf's most intriguing ideas to date, in my opinion.

I liked Hunter most of all, but now Changeling has taken the top spot for me for WOD games.

[MoltenPlastic]

"I love many of the themes in this game; I don't know if it's something I'd like to play".

My thoughts exactly. Personally I consider Changeling a poor RPG. That uses mature theme as an end in itself.

[ManaJunkie]

It's a very dark game indeed... and you need players to be in the proper mindset to adventure with Changeling.

[pridday88]

I haven't been too interested in the WoD line of games, but this sounds very cool. I may get it and use the ideas to add to my game. Thanks for the review Kurt!

[nutherefurlong]

Are there any provisions for trying to take back your old life, or do they build a wall up around that?

[lampdevil]

Oh yes, there are chances to take your old life back, and rules to make it happen. It's not an easy thing to do.  Some choose to make a new life, others kill that doppleganger and try to step back into the old one. It's wide open.

[muthoslogoseidolon]

Player seams to have difficuly to role play the fear. They mostely want to have fun and look for bersek behavior. But i think this game is a pice of cake for the GM mind. ;)

[BillionSix]

Changeling is my favorite of the World of Darkness games. It is very grim, I admit, but I would still love to play it.

[Rishkith]

I'm not a WoD fan, but I love this one

[bigbritoman]

That was well said.

[Tboysupreme]

nice review...but a game for me?I think not.

[zorlak21]

Thank you Kurt for doing this one

[WayfinderX]

I probably wouldn't play it myself either, but I think it's good to look through for ideas. Sometimes, just reading these books, especially the old Wraith line, was just too grim for my tastes. There's a point where you can take a dark, moody theme too far.

[graph180]

I've been waiting for this! Thanks Kurt!