why did the world come down so hard on the coup in honduras, but kept quiet during the coups that took place in fiji, thailand and venezula and several african countries. Why honduras?
What part about constitutional term limits don't you people understand? If a United States president refused, after 8 years in office, to give up their reign, would it not be prudent to remove them from power? That is not a coup. That is enforcing the constitution. Term limits are designed to prevent dictatorships from forming.
Honduras will defend democracy and freedom at any cost. That was the message to Hillary Clinton and the rest from countries against the majority of public opinion have persisted in calling a coup by constitutional mandate the dismissal of Zelaya. AND WE STILL BELIEVE IN OBAMA
lol apparently democracy and freedom is defended by "dismissing" a democratically elected president which has the support of the majority of its people.
Pentagon calls 0bama, 0bama calls Langley, Langley calls their buddies in fort Benning, the buddies call Honduras. CIA opens a few fresh Swiss accounts for the junta. Anytime Micheletti wishes to "retire", there's a cozy villa in Florida and a full-tanked Cessna to take him there.
The dirty deed is done. 0bama & Co drag history back to the 50:s again.
removing an elected President without due process, hearings, proceedings in other words allowing the accused to face his accusers & accusations is fundamentally anti-democratic, most of us enjoy the rights given to us under democracies, including the right to not be arrested and locked up (in this case exiled) without due process- this is the basic reason that the democratic nations across the world have condemned this action by the junta in honduras, those who cant see this are anti-democratic
Did any country invade the United States when they were enslaving black people, making them feel inferior through racism and beating them in the streets, denying them basic fundamental rights?
The United States cannot just invade anybody it wants, especially when their methods involve controlled propoganda and terrorism (in some instances). They are not a perfect government, and neither is anybody else.
The British came and burned down the white-house in 1814, during the era of slavery. Of course slavery had nothing to do with it. The whole idea of "rights" is pretty baseless anyways. People do to eachother and everything else, whatever they can get away with.
hi Im honduran in our constitution there is no impeachment nor trials for presidents...article 239 states that if the president attempts or intends to change the constitution he should be removed IMMEDIATLEY no trial no impeachment n nothing
Yes, but does that means to place at gun to his head and exile him out of a country? If Honduras is truly a democratic country, why not a trial. Isn't that a reason why you have a Supreme Court? What ever happen to innocent to proven guilty?
I read Honduran newspapers, I talk to my friends in Honduras, and I read the indictment against Zelaya issued by their supreme court. My world goes beyond liberal media and the propaganda from Venezuela. Did you know for example, that Miguel Insulza is a long time leftist who has been supporting Chavez? Did you know that Manuel d'Escoto is a Sandinista (Nicaragua) veteran who has always backed his leader, Daniel Ortega? Anything else you want to say, knock yourself out.
Major errors in Judith Millers statement. This was no military coup, the military was ordered to remove Zelaya from office after declaring him in violation of the Honduran Constitution, which he was, as well as being charged with a list of criminal acts which included treason; his estimated 3000 followers were paid from Venezuela, forget negotiating, he was planning his own coup, and there is no "military junta" as someone here suggested. Obama is a...hole buddies with Chavez, now we know.
JohananRaatz- you pretend to be a logical person but your logic is just the dying gasps of a rightwing idealism that is all but dead in latin america- by your logic, someone simply has to accuse the president of breaking a law and he can be arrested and exiled without any due process, if the president broke a law why was he not given a chance to face his accusers and accusations? he did want to remove term limits, but he wanted the hondurians to vote & make that decision, gee what a bad guy
This is what we call the subject/motive shift people. Instead of attacking the argument head on aztecadog proceeds to shift the focus of the conversation to the supposed motive behind the argument. Never once considering the possibility that perhaps it is the argument that motivates the right-wing idealism and not vice-versa.
All right. The way it was handled was questionable. They should not have exiled him like that and he should have had a trial. However you have to admit sending your supporters to break into a military base to steal boxes of ballots for an illegal referendum is not exactly something to be winked at either.
If this referendum and his intentions for it were so innocuous then why did he go to all that trouble -even when the whole rest of the government had explicitly told him no?
Hmm, I wasn't asking for that. I was only ask them to abide by the law. (which they have) I wonder if you've talked to any other law abiding Honduran citizens about Zelaya. They agree his arrest was justified and don't seem to like him very much either.
Zelaya was elected for more than 51% and when he was illegally deported from his own country (this is against the Honduran Constitution) he had more than 52% of popularity, so why do you think he was forced to leave his country?? because they new Zelaya could get stronger because people loved and love him...right now under dictatorship any survey it's so suspicious (28% of popularity?) I do not buy it!
Several of those creeps in the junta trained in Schools of Americas, the torture&killing school held in US.
Quite obvious the creeps are following orders from Washington. No other reason to isolate yourself from rest of the World in such a dumb way. Pentagon must've promised some rewards to the criminals.
Fuck the commies, Thank you CIA for fucking up commie regimes under Reagan so that Clinton could sign NAFTA and thereby bring us the economic prosperity needed to improve our quality of life. THANK YOU CIA!!
the EU announced they were cutting off the $90+ million dollars in aid to honduras until zelaya is restored, the US is following suit, the rest of the world in unison has condemned this coup (coup because the president was never given due process, never went to trail or had a chance to defend himself from accusations)- the junta government in honduras is under tremendous pressure and will have to fold allowing zelaya back to his elected post, he will return and be stronger than ever-
hillary clinton said yesteraday that Zelaya should not go to the border and try to return to his own country because that "does not contribute with democracy"....what democracy she is talking about???????? WTH
Well that's good. She understands that while the actions were taken in a questionable manner Zelaya violated the democratic constitutional order by trying to eliminate Article 239 and thus his return would be bad for democracy.
It's amazing how this has been avoided by the main stream media. And it appears that President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton are supporting him the past president by their lack of just response.
You won't get any traction with them. See most of the people I have been talking to about the coup are unable to understand logic and reason.
They don't understand that if Article 239 says the punishment for violating it means expulsion that if someone does this they will be expelled.
It is really "SEE SPOT RUN" logic, but then they are committing the fallacy of denying the correlative so systemically that I doubt they can ever think logically.
No, there's A LOT of people who think that the leadership got it way wrong on this. BTW if you go on to facebook the largest group concerning Zelaya's arrest under Article 239 happens to be in favor of it and happens to have a membership mostly of Hondurans (10,000 of them -while all of the other groups have less than 2,000).
Only 28% of Hondurans want Zelaya back. If that isn't a good sign to you that the initial international reaction was absurd I don't know what is.
Zelaya was elected for more than 51% and when he was illegally deported from his own country (this is against the Honduran Constitution) he had more than 52% of popularity, so why do you think he was forced to leave his country?? because they new Zelaya could get stronger because people loved and love him...right now under dictatorship any survey it's so suspicious (28% of popularity?) I do not buy it!
Yes I know. I hate to say it, but I think there is some truth to the term "vulgar masses." (someone doesn't like me saying it? prove me wrong don't down rate this comment)
You've no idea how many times I've argued about this with simple logic and pointed out explicit textbook fallacies in their arguments and they just don't get it. Honestly I would have as much luck getting a zombie to understand logic.
It's simply unbelievable. It's like simple logic doesn't even matter anymore these days.
Well I'll go get a source for you, it is a news article on the misrepresentation from the main-stream media on this 'coup'.
It's ludicrious, I'm betting 100000% that all the people who have rated you negative do NOT even know Honduras HAS a constitution. *sigh*.... I'm on a friends account. I'll reply in due course.
I tend to shy just short of insulting people though, I get that enough telling the TRUTH.
BTW, one of our top news anchors recently did a documentary on Cuba and couldn't find much to criticise about it, other than that they don't talk about celebrity trivia in their news shows.
Freund, if you are a leftist then I'm George W. Bush. I think you know that that the JBS is very much alive on the web and LaRouche has a film on here repeating your garbage.
John Birch Society?? Do they still exist? Lyndon LaRouche? Is he alive? Geez. How old are you anyway? LOL. I am an old time leftist but I just hate incompetent leftists leading their people on with BS while they are living the high life.
I didn't that racism was the only point of consideration for facism. You are quite right that everyone has the right to be hungry in Cuba. Oh except if you are a Castro or related.
I wouldn't call the Brigades imperialists. Meddlers maybe. I wouldn't call Micheleti and his boys fascist. Usurpers probably and poor PR people definitely. Would you call Castro and family fascist? I would. If you are for overthrowing all dictatorial regimes, you have a point. A dictator is a dictator is a dictator.
Ah but rb1601, you were hoping for an full scale invasion by Venezuela and Nicaraguan forces under Chavez and Ortega. This would show these two as nothing more than imperialists meddling in other countries affairs which of course they are, despite their rhetoric.
But you still think these gangsters should have seized power. If they don't step down soon then I hope Chavez and Ortega will launch a full scale invasion. I would be very happy to take part in it.
Oh, I'm very calm thank you. I know that the regime you support has no credibility. You are deluded if you seriously think that this right-wing racist regime is supported by all Hondurans.
He's the de facto foreign minister of Honduras. He's used racially inflammatory language against Obama at least three times in the past couple of weeks. If he's wanting any hope of American acceptance or assistance, at best he's shooting himself in the foot.
The majority of Hondurans support the removal of Zelaya. Don't delude yourself into thinking that it is the "oligarchy". Chavez, Ortega, Evo and Zelaya are the new oligarchs and imperialists. They along with the "hermanos Castro" are the true tyrants. All are incompetent leaders.
...But depending on the political and business interests of the country and leader in question, the Western "democracies" will act and respond differently when a coup takes place. This is all a complicated international political games and believe me, there's no way you're going to be getting fair and unbiased facts from CNN / BBC / Aljazeera. These people are just acting in accordance with the policy of their nations.
It is NOT the "elite" or the "upper class" that oppresses the peasants and the grassroot people. But the very man these idiots elected is the one cheating elections, stealing money from the country, even trying to change the law to facilitate their corruption processes. These leaders whether its Zelaya of Honduras, Marcos of the Philippines, Suharto of Indonesia, or Thaksin Shinawatra of Thailand are all "Satans in the faces of Angels"...
...Western nations do not recognise that Honduras or Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand, etc. are not like the US or UK. The infrastructure which are the building blocks of democracy in these nations are much weaker and most often the system of "check and balance" are corrupted themselves.
...really knows what is happending are much less in numbers, there's no way out for the country, at least not by democratic election. Whatever lies that corrupted leader put forward, those peasants keep endorsing them wholeheartedly without any question. This is why it was necessary to use force or step outbound of the democratic processes for the good of the country...
This Zelaya guy is at the equivalent corruption level of "Ferdinand Marcos" or "Suharto". The only difference between Honduras and Philippines is that Honduras still have brave and honest people left in government who's not afraid to take matters into their hands when crisis comes to a pivotal point. When you have a nation full of idiot peasants who keep electing corrupted but generous leaders, there's a stalemate situation present.Because the middle class and the educated upper classes who...
Zelaya broke the law multiple times and violated the constitution. Hondurans are fighting for freedom and real democracy. We dont want interventions of Chavez/Ortega and the rest of the Communist clan. We love our country. Pro Micheletti followers have peaceful protests all over the country and abroad. Zelaya's followers use violence and disrespect private and public property.
The elections of liberals, democrats or leftists Presidents in Latinamerica is a reality. Before democracy existed in many countries, there used to be a lot of right wing dictators. Now that elections are allowed, people are electing lefties all over including Obama. Slowly the warmongers are less and less and more sensible people abound...
The first cold war is over..Latin America does not desire to be the eternal pawn of empires...We want the USA ,corporations to understand that their interest are not Paramount to the interest of Latinamericans and their democracies..We're tired of that dirty game. If right wingers want war with Russia let them go to war and destroy themselves..but dont try to start a second cold war when relations are good with Russia...
What the HELL Obama is doing by ignoring what is going on in Honduras ?. If Chavez manage to get into Honduras territory , then Russia will basically be at the USA doorstep . Let's remember that El Salvador is now join forces with Chavez .... This has to stop NOW .. We can't allow the enemy get to close to USA ... ARE THE USA CITIZENS BLIND ? , What were They thinking when They gave the power to a MUSLIM . Will the USA have to wait for another PEARL HARBOR to open Their eyes ?.
For all the idiots condemning this legitimate act to defend the constitution and calling it a "coup". Search for keyword "Thaksin Shinawatra" and "Thailand coup". This was the EXACT same thing that happened in 2006. An extremely corrupted by vastly popular (among the rural poor) PM was ousted in a bloodless coup. People came out on the streets with flowers and snacks and posed for pictures in front of tanks. Why nobody condemns Thailand? Don't believe in all the things you're told by CNN/BBC!!
What I have noted is that people around the web assume that Honduran dont have a saying in this. If they want to have a marxist country let them. If they suffer and their mind change, its up to them to act on it.
hi this is not a coup with this Manuel Zelaya Chávez and Fidel Castro they are communists and murderers in Honduras we are free and sovereign are not communists
90% of people agree that the removal of corrupt
all these people who are in favor of Zelaya is paid by the government of venezuela and cuba
I dunno what to comment about OAS. This organization has deviated its most sublime principle of curbing the spread and infiltration of Communism when established in 1948.
Now these politicians decided to suspend the membership of Honduras simply because Hoduras new leader has the guts to fight against Communism.
I wouldn't be at all suprised if the next step of OAS is to succumb to Commie assholes and revive the membership of Cuba.
e torpeza En que contitucion del mundo en ves de enjuiciarlo lo destierran me parese que honduras es un pais muy analfabeto lo combirtieron en un heroe a zelaya ante los ojos del mundo ahora los jueses no tienen autoridad moral para enjuciarlo
please check out my new channel, fishsilly2, worldwiderevolution. we will be keeping tabs on this, and creating vids that support poeple fighting against coups, or protesting to overturn corrupt governments, revolutions, protest, ect. all as long as int is the poeples will. we beleive in freedom, the right of the poeple not to be oppressed, to stop poverty and the ill teatment of poeple. we are concentrating on Iran, and honduras. also check out fishsilly1 excusively for Iran Revolution ty
the UN, OAS and other democratic countries have condemned the coup,the era of the rightwing juntas in Latin America is over and our countries are finally being represented by truly elected leaders who have there peoples interest in mind not by european transplants who achieved power through the military and maintained that power through oppresive measures,this is a desperate attempt by the rightwing who knows there era of corrupt power is over,and though international support the people will win
They are not idiots, they are hypocrites, they want Cuba to come back to the organization in spite of the fact that there is no democracy in Cuba, there has not been a free election for more than 50 years, nevertheless they exclude Honduras.
look for allan macdonald, he is a cartoon maker in a newspaper a pro-coup newspaper but he felt this is wrong and made his mind in a draw in sunday 29,that night at 3:00am military people get in his house kidnap him with his 17 month baby girl and they burn all his material a documents......if this is not a coup what is??????
All european nations has retrieve their diplomats and the UN are given 72 hours to reinstate the president Zelaya...all those who said it was not a coup then all thae nations who are condemming are liars?
Not liars. They just don't know about the illegal activities(the venezuelan drug planes, the illegal attempt to amend the constitution.) We cannot afford to be the next Cuba. The president of Honduras was Chavez not Zelaya. The communist wave came to a crash here. The new government has already stated that it will not give in to the UN or OAS. This is a Honduran problem. When Chavez attempted a coup it was a failed revolution when Hondurans defend their constitution its a coup. Ironic isn't it?
The point isn't that Zelaya committed crimes, it's that he wasn't afforded any due process of law or lawful removal procedure. He was simply kidnapped and exiled at the point of a gun.
I have no problem with the removal of Zelaya. It seems like he was violating the constitution. But impeach him, or set up a special tribunal; even a criminal president deserves due process of law.
...But is there a 'lawful' removal procedure in the Honduran constitution?
I haven't heard anything about an impeachment procedure, for instance.
Also, in many countries, being an elected official is a privileged, not a right. Thus, it's not necessarily protected by due process in the same way as a private citizen's actions--although I don't know how true this is for Honduras.
I haven't read about an impeachment procedure in the Constitution either. That doesn't prevent the Congress from setting one up.
In any event, the proper response to "We don't have a constitutional provision for removal of officials," should not be "Well, we'll order the military to remove him." It should be "Well, let's set up a procedure for lawful removal."
"Well, let's set up a procedure for lawful removal."
Maybe they just did through their actions?
We won't know if what they did was legal until the Honduran courts decide. Given that the courts are on the side of the Congress, I think they'll find an interpretation of law to fit the Congress's actions.
(But you're right, ideally they wouldn't need to break the spirit of the law to get the president ousted)
If this is going to be the procedure going forward, then the procedure is wrong. Democracy in Central America has gone too far for it to become "If Congress believes you have violated the Constitution, it will order the military to exile you."
For the immediate situation, I don't know what should happen next. It seems as though Zeyala violated the constitution, is popularly and politically unpopular, and his term is over in six months. Restoring him seems like it would be impractical at best.
"For the immediate situation, I don't know what should happen next. "
Heh, I guess I'm not the only one.
: )
I don't like that the military is censoring news sources and blocking websites. For instance, they apparently censored CNN, which doesn't have a regional political agenda that I know of.
Get your facts straight!! He was ruled AGAINST by the SUPREME COURT for having violated the constitution!! That process in itself renders him out of office automatically. There was also another Prime Minister from Thailand named "Samak Sundaravej" who was kicked out of office by the country's "Constitutional Court" last year but nobody--esp. the US--seems to have any problem with that?!?
As far as I've been able to tell, there was an order from a single Supreme Court justice to remove Zelaya from office. There was no impeachment, and no full ruling by the court, and certainly no hearing or trial to provide due process.
Yes, Congress and the SC thought the proposed referendum was unconstitutional. They should have impeached him, not sent the military to break into his house.
Check out Alvara Llosa's Washington Post article on this. It articulates my position on this pretty well. What should have and could have been a lawful removal of President Zelaya became a coup.
We should not start a precedent of having the military whisk away an elected leader because he is unpopular and believed to have broken the law.
It was, and several of their actions since have been very unfortunate and have pretty much undermined what they say they were trying to fix by removing Zelaya in the first place, including forgery of a resignation letter, arresting ministers, beating and killing protesters, suspension of constitutional rights, manipulation of newspaper photos of protesters bleeding from the head, and removal of the mayor of San Pedro, to be replaced by Micheletti's own nephew.
Agreed but Mel, after prodding from Chavez, brought a lot of this on himself. He lost support of his own party and the vast majority of the country. Micheleti is a member of Zelaya's party. Also Zelaya had allowed Honduras to become a transshipment point for drugs coming from Venezuela. He was an incompetent President. Still having said that the coup was extremely impatient and foolish.
people are confused because they have never seen nothing like it, thats it. we wont take a president that is so corrupt, just because he is the president he has no right to abuse of Honduras!
Congratulations to the Honduran people for taking their country back and saving your democracy. Zelaya should be arrested and tried for drug trafficking.
Zelaya broke the law- wanted full control of Honduras- and was found criminally liable. The duly elected govt called on its military to force Zelaya's departure.
This was NOT A MILITARY COUP!
Get it right before u believe what you see the mass media/ drug cartel spin...
Follow the drug and oil dollars...
the cia is working overtime these days w/ their brand of USA democracy and freedom-
"if you condemn this coup your side with Hugo Chavez Castro and the president of boliva" And I do! it is two very good presidents. Example for others. None faik democracies like the United States. Real democracies where not capitalists control but the people choose policy.
Zeleya was trying to become a permanent dictator and he was illegally trying to change the constitution to do so. He was arrested by order of the Supreme Court and Attorney General. Zeleya's arrest was neither illegal or a coup.
Cenamark2, spot on. The problem was the execution of this detention. They should have arrested him and put him on trial rather than flying him to Costa Rica. That would have avoided all the "coup" labels. Hopefully the gov't will find a way to fix their mistake.
if you condemn this coup your side with Hugo Chavez Castro and the president of boliva all crazed communist and want to decentralize and bring back the great pain and suffering south America endured though out the 70s 80s and 90s. as these nations try to wipe away there past of third world countries these communist try to bring them back to that position
what do you talking about? all fucking coup should be condemned, not? are talking about a sitting president pull out of his house in pajamas and dropped in nowhere outside his country?
Why don't you just fucking pull the trigger and kill him??? what does communism have to do with this shit?
If anyone out there has difficulties knowing what to think regarding the situation in Honduras, then I recommend a shortcut and easy way to take a stand, just read what this kind of morons shout and do the opposite.
Shut the fuck up Commie rat.. There are term limits in the Constitution, He BROKE THE LAW by extending his term. The constitution is LAW, not the president. AMERICA SUPPORTS YOU HONDURAS, everyone that voted McCain supports your actions, and thats the half of America that has a brain. So good job, Obama is next to be ousted for abusing our constitution.
FUCK ZELEYA FUCK OBAMA BROTHER WILL WIPE THESE COMMUNIST OUT OF SOUTH AMERICA ONE DAY as obama tries his soft tyranny here he will see that people are fed up and if mister Chavez and miter Castro tries to send there soldiers to Honduras i tell you now every Honduran and American soldier stationed there will fight these Marxist murders
This was also the era during which John Negroponte was helping flood the country with military aid so that Battalion 316 could murder and torture dissidents. Proceeding:
Zelaya, elected in November 2005 on the platform of Honduras Liberal Party, had proposed the opinion poll be conducted to determine if a majority of citizens agreed that constitutional reform was necessary. He was backed by a majority of labor unions and social movements in the country.
If the poll had occured, depending on the results, a referendum would have been conducted during the upcoming elections in November to vote on convening a constitutional assembly. Nevertheless, todays scheduled poll was not binding by law. In fact, several days before the poll was to occur, Honduras Supreme Court ruled it illegal, upon request by the Congress, both of which are led by anti-Zelaya majorities and members of the ultra-conservative party, National Party of Honduras (PNH).
Supposedly at the center of the controversary is todays scheduled referendum, which is not a binding vote but merely an opinion poll to determine whether or not a majority of Hondurans desire to eventually enter into a process to modify their constitution.Such an initiative has never taken place in the Central American nation, which has a very limited constitution that allows minimal participation by the people of Honduras in their political processes.
The current constitution, written in 1982 during the height of the Reagan Administrations dirty war in Central America, was designed to ensure those in power, both economic and political, would retain it with little interference from the people.
"It's like so many coups that have taken place in Latin America over the past 100 years, against the wishes of the people and against a president who merely is trying to hold a popular vote."
Leaders across the Americas have condemned Honduras's military after it forced Manuel Zelaya, the president, to seek exile in Costa Rica.
agreed hughster41. I was thinking how obama thinks he's seeing his own future - and thinks it's time to put a preemptive stop to THAT idea..HAHA. obama is an idiot.
this is to pacrod. We intelligent people around the world support you.
The President is nothing more than a civil servant of the people.
The government in a true democratic state is actuallly supposed to be afraid of the people because the people control the military and the judicial courts.
Mel Zelaya deserves to be put in Jail. He's a threat to democracy in Honduras. It is thanks to his decisions, influenced by Hugo Chavez, that he es out the presidency.
As I am from Honduras and love liberty, I support my army and deny Mel Zelaya as my president.
We ask for international help to investigate what's really happening in Honduras. Mel Zelaya violated the law and failed in his job as president.
Thanks FF AA and thanks fellow Honduras for speaking the truth.
No one is above the nation. No one is above the Constituition.
When Zelaya run for the job he knew that if ellected it would be just for 1 term. If he and others don't like it then fight for the change of the Constitution first. Yes, it takes time but true democrats don't put their egos above the law.
The joke on Honduras ended and the military done the right thing. They kick the guy out... Now the people can choose another leader, respecting the integrity of the Constituition.
CNN aren't well informed. I'm in Honduras...I'm living this. At least give me the benefit of the doubt of knowing the facts.
This was not a referendum...it was an illegal poll. The executive can't hold polls and approve them...only the congress can. Not all constitutions are the same, Marly. I'm surprised you don't know this. Please study the Honduran Constitution. Google it. It's all there. I'm not lying to you. You just refuse to acknowledge the facts because you're a leftist sympathizer...
English translation of the constitutional article written in stone:
ARTICLE 4 .- The form of government is republican, democratic and representative. Is exercised by three branches: legislative, executive and judicial, and independent and complementary relationship of subordination. Alternation in the presidency of the Republic is required. Violation of this rule constitutes the crime of treason.
ARTICULO 4.- La forma de gobierno es republicana, democrática y representativa. Se ejerce por tres poderes: Legislativo, Ejecutivo y Judicial, complementarios e independientes y sin relaciones de subordinación. La alternabilidad en el ejercicio de la Presidencia de la República es obligatoria. La infracción de esta norma constituye delito de traición a la Patria.
extend or allow a second term for Mel Zelaya. He was BREAKING CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, no matter how you put it, and he must be held accountable. For christ's sake...people were being turned down from state hospitals unless they signed agreement for a constitutional assembly. Manuel Zelaya was a CRIMINAL president, and only a minute minority are protesting his oust. The majority of us are VERY HAPPY he's gone.
Actually, I can see you are not familar constitutional law and its processes. As referendums are a constitutional process by which changes to a constitution are and can be made. Do you know that the coup leaders have admitted that they are trying to justify the coup by saying that the constitutional process he is using is breaking the law and that most constitutional experts are laughing at that argument, from Obama to The UN?
I didn't know they made jeeps in Honduras...
kommon12Cents 10 months ago
USA responsible for this?
NearsL 1 year ago
@NearsL Yes. Soto Cano.
apresesco 1 year ago
@NearsL Where else did they get the jeeps?
kommon12Cents 10 months ago
Didn't Zelaya break the hoduran constitution by trying to run for a 2nd term?
whitesox889 1 year ago
Hondurans,
you have 100% my support to expel the American invaders and terrorists of CIA. Fight for democracy and freedom of your country!
apresesco 1 year ago
why did the world come down so hard on the coup in honduras, but kept quiet during the coups that took place in fiji, thailand and venezula and several african countries. Why honduras?
sojoooman 2 years ago
What part about constitutional term limits don't you people understand? If a United States president refused, after 8 years in office, to give up their reign, would it not be prudent to remove them from power? That is not a coup. That is enforcing the constitution. Term limits are designed to prevent dictatorships from forming.
undeadpresident 2 years ago
Honduras will defend democracy and freedom at any cost. That was the message to Hillary Clinton and the rest from countries against the majority of public opinion have persisted in calling a coup by constitutional mandate the dismissal of Zelaya. AND WE STILL BELIEVE IN OBAMA
show555 2 years ago
lol apparently democracy and freedom is defended by "dismissing" a democratically elected president which has the support of the majority of its people.
Lisbon1906 2 years ago
De última hora, hace 10 minutos
Autonomía universitaria violada
17 estudiantes, dirigentes de la federación de estudiantes de la u nal de
honduras unah detenidos
la rectora se enfrentó al contingente y la botaron al suelo, la sacaron de
su oficina
violaron tambien la oficina del sitrauna del sindicato de trab univ,
secuestrando papeles.
El Comit de Derechos Humanos está interponiendo en este momento los recursos
de amparo. Reenvíe a sus contactos en todo el mundo
rictvnoticiastv 2 years ago
Pentagon calls 0bama, 0bama calls Langley, Langley calls their buddies in fort Benning, the buddies call Honduras. CIA opens a few fresh Swiss accounts for the junta. Anytime Micheletti wishes to "retire", there's a cozy villa in Florida and a full-tanked Cessna to take him there.
The dirty deed is done. 0bama & Co drag history back to the 50:s again.
0bama: President of the Past.
SovietWarrior 2 years ago
Get real, we need the CIA or else the inmates will run the asylum in South and Central America and steal all of our corporations stuff.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
removing an elected President without due process, hearings, proceedings in other words allowing the accused to face his accusers & accusations is fundamentally anti-democratic, most of us enjoy the rights given to us under democracies, including the right to not be arrested and locked up (in this case exiled) without due process- this is the basic reason that the democratic nations across the world have condemned this action by the junta in honduras, those who cant see this are anti-democratic
aztecadog 2 years ago 3
Did any country invade the United States when they were enslaving black people, making them feel inferior through racism and beating them in the streets, denying them basic fundamental rights?
The United States cannot just invade anybody it wants, especially when their methods involve controlled propoganda and terrorism (in some instances). They are not a perfect government, and neither is anybody else.
Frogstomp121 2 years ago
The British came and burned down the white-house in 1814, during the era of slavery. Of course slavery had nothing to do with it. The whole idea of "rights" is pretty baseless anyways. People do to eachother and everything else, whatever they can get away with.
undeadpresident 2 years ago
hi Im honduran in our constitution there is no impeachment nor trials for presidents...article 239 states that if the president attempts or intends to change the constitution he should be removed IMMEDIATLEY no trial no impeachment n nothing
gralgeorgeeho0257 2 years ago
Yes, but does that means to place at gun to his head and exile him out of a country? If Honduras is truly a democratic country, why not a trial. Isn't that a reason why you have a Supreme Court? What ever happen to innocent to proven guilty?
csanchez2009 2 years ago
What is anti-democratic is refusing to leave office when your term is up. That is a constitutional violation.
undeadpresident 2 years ago
@aztecadog He tried to make himself a dictator by unilaterally modifying the consittutuion without due process. He had to go. Good work army!
metsdudenj 1 year ago
fuera Zelaya hijo de puta!
SanJoseCR 2 years ago
I read Honduran newspapers, I talk to my friends in Honduras, and I read the indictment against Zelaya issued by their supreme court. My world goes beyond liberal media and the propaganda from Venezuela. Did you know for example, that Miguel Insulza is a long time leftist who has been supporting Chavez? Did you know that Manuel d'Escoto is a Sandinista (Nicaragua) veteran who has always backed his leader, Daniel Ortega? Anything else you want to say, knock yourself out.
Huaman 2 years ago
Major errors in Judith Millers statement. This was no military coup, the military was ordered to remove Zelaya from office after declaring him in violation of the Honduran Constitution, which he was, as well as being charged with a list of criminal acts which included treason; his estimated 3000 followers were paid from Venezuela, forget negotiating, he was planning his own coup, and there is no "military junta" as someone here suggested. Obama is a...hole buddies with Chavez, now we know.
Huaman 2 years ago
Huaman you are fantasizing too much it seems like youre writing a fictional movie script
tmarpe 2 years ago
You're living in an upsidedown world
tmarpe 2 years ago
iM a Honduran
And the 28 of june the Day zelaya was taken from Honduras
They Cut Communications And Cut Electricity to prevent people from knowing whats going on
When eLECTRICITY CAME BACK IT WAS ALREADY SETTLED
falgat 2 years ago
JohananRaatz- you pretend to be a logical person but your logic is just the dying gasps of a rightwing idealism that is all but dead in latin america- by your logic, someone simply has to accuse the president of breaking a law and he can be arrested and exiled without any due process, if the president broke a law why was he not given a chance to face his accusers and accusations? he did want to remove term limits, but he wanted the hondurians to vote & make that decision, gee what a bad guy
aztecadog 2 years ago
This is what we call the subject/motive shift people. Instead of attacking the argument head on aztecadog proceeds to shift the focus of the conversation to the supposed motive behind the argument. Never once considering the possibility that perhaps it is the argument that motivates the right-wing idealism and not vice-versa.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
All right. The way it was handled was questionable. They should not have exiled him like that and he should have had a trial. However you have to admit sending your supporters to break into a military base to steal boxes of ballots for an illegal referendum is not exactly something to be winked at either.
If this referendum and his intentions for it were so innocuous then why did he go to all that trouble -even when the whole rest of the government had explicitly told him no?
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
to: jonathanrats: youre welcome you know that we latinos were born "to serve you..."
tmarpe 2 years ago
Hmm, I wasn't asking for that. I was only ask them to abide by the law. (which they have) I wonder if you've talked to any other law abiding Honduran citizens about Zelaya. They agree his arrest was justified and don't seem to like him very much either.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Zelaya was elected for more than 51% and when he was illegally deported from his own country (this is against the Honduran Constitution) he had more than 52% of popularity, so why do you think he was forced to leave his country?? because they new Zelaya could get stronger because people loved and love him...right now under dictatorship any survey it's so suspicious (28% of popularity?) I do not buy it!
tmarpe 2 years ago
Several of those creeps in the junta trained in Schools of Americas, the torture&killing school held in US.
Quite obvious the creeps are following orders from Washington. No other reason to isolate yourself from rest of the World in such a dumb way. Pentagon must've promised some rewards to the criminals.
REINSTALL ZELAYA!!! DOWN WITH CIA!!!
SovietWarrior 2 years ago
they will not defeat latin america I assure you that
tmarpe 2 years ago
Fuck the commies, Thank you CIA for fucking up commie regimes under Reagan so that Clinton could sign NAFTA and thereby bring us the economic prosperity needed to improve our quality of life. THANK YOU CIA!!
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
hehehe great great answer you deserve as a prize another brain
tmarpe 2 years ago
Comment removed
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
the EU announced they were cutting off the $90+ million dollars in aid to honduras until zelaya is restored, the US is following suit, the rest of the world in unison has condemned this coup (coup because the president was never given due process, never went to trail or had a chance to defend himself from accusations)- the junta government in honduras is under tremendous pressure and will have to fold allowing zelaya back to his elected post, he will return and be stronger than ever-
aztecadog 2 years ago
hillary clinton said yesteraday that Zelaya should not go to the border and try to return to his own country because that "does not contribute with democracy"....what democracy she is talking about???????? WTH
tmarpe 2 years ago
Well that's good. She understands that while the actions were taken in a questionable manner Zelaya violated the democratic constitutional order by trying to eliminate Article 239 and thus his return would be bad for democracy.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
Viva Zelaya
Viva el Pueblo
Viva Honduras
aztecadog 2 years ago
viva la democrasia viva honduras
mik3moore 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Look for this tube:
¿Hugo Chávez planeaba una masacre en Honduras?
leila2728 2 years ago
It's amazing how this has been avoided by the main stream media. And it appears that President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton are supporting him the past president by their lack of just response.
dojisinsc 2 years ago 5
This wasn't even a coup.
It was a constitutional action. Just goes to show what happens when the media gets hold of something.
joneselius 2 years ago
You won't get any traction with them. See most of the people I have been talking to about the coup are unable to understand logic and reason.
They don't understand that if Article 239 says the punishment for violating it means expulsion that if someone does this they will be expelled.
It is really "SEE SPOT RUN" logic, but then they are committing the fallacy of denying the correlative so systemically that I doubt they can ever think logically.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
I got thumbed down four times for telling the truth, eh.
just goes to show the reading ability of over half the world. I repeat to those ignorant fools, the actions were, I repeat WERE CONSTITUTIONAL!
joneselius 2 years ago
hehe yeah right so Constitutional that the whole world have made a mistake yeah right youre the only right among a 6 billion people hehe
tmarpe 2 years ago
No, there's A LOT of people who think that the leadership got it way wrong on this. BTW if you go on to facebook the largest group concerning Zelaya's arrest under Article 239 happens to be in favor of it and happens to have a membership mostly of Hondurans (10,000 of them -while all of the other groups have less than 2,000).
Only 28% of Hondurans want Zelaya back. If that isn't a good sign to you that the initial international reaction was absurd I don't know what is.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
Zelaya was elected for more than 51% and when he was illegally deported from his own country (this is against the Honduran Constitution) he had more than 52% of popularity, so why do you think he was forced to leave his country?? because they new Zelaya could get stronger because people loved and love him...right now under dictatorship any survey it's so suspicious (28% of popularity?) I do not buy it!
tmarpe 2 years ago
And please do not tell me that "facebook" now became in a political thermometer ...
tmarpe 2 years ago
iNDEED IT IS A BATTLEFIELD
falgat 2 years ago
let me laugh again
tmarpe 2 years ago
And from now on, you will be known as selective reading man!
kobhaven 2 years ago
Yes I know. I hate to say it, but I think there is some truth to the term "vulgar masses." (someone doesn't like me saying it? prove me wrong don't down rate this comment)
You've no idea how many times I've argued about this with simple logic and pointed out explicit textbook fallacies in their arguments and they just don't get it. Honestly I would have as much luck getting a zombie to understand logic.
It's simply unbelievable. It's like simple logic doesn't even matter anymore these days.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
Simply logic it's this: Zelaya was elected President by the people and only the people can take the power back not a military coup d' eta.
tmarpe 2 years ago
Well I'll go get a source for you, it is a news article on the misrepresentation from the main-stream media on this 'coup'.
It's ludicrious, I'm betting 100000% that all the people who have rated you negative do NOT even know Honduras HAS a constitution. *sigh*.... I'm on a friends account. I'll reply in due course.
I tend to shy just short of insulting people though, I get that enough telling the TRUTH.
kobhaven 2 years ago
There is only a one truth: Zelaya is still the President of Honduras. The Micheletti's group are only mercenaries.
tmarpe 2 years ago
COMON
you need to accept that both Sides are completely Wrong
Yes Zelaya is the President but it wasnt like that he have to be taken from HonDuras
IM neither 1 side or another
IM NEUTRAL
THINK ABOUT IT
REMAINING NEUTRAL IS THE BEST WAY
falgat 2 years ago
The truth is this: Zelaya is the President and Micheletti is a mercenary
tmarpe 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The truth is this: Zelaya is the President and Micheletti is a mercenary
tmarpe 2 years ago
The new president must be a good man if he wants to remove the mud people from the country.Then it can be cleaned up and sanitized.
sdsunandfun 2 years ago
sds u inbred piece of shjt. jajaja
chigangsta09 2 years ago
BTW, one of our top news anchors recently did a documentary on Cuba and couldn't find much to criticise about it, other than that they don't talk about celebrity trivia in their news shows.
rb1601 2 years ago
Freund, if you are a leftist then I'm George W. Bush. I think you know that that the JBS is very much alive on the web and LaRouche has a film on here repeating your garbage.
rb1601 2 years ago
Don't worry qwertyman129, he's talking bullshit. When he has the John Birch Society and Lyndon LaRouche on his side, you know he's in trouble.
rb1601 2 years ago
Look I have spoken to Hondurans who have seen the drug smuggling going on and the wreckage of planes from Venezuela so it is no BS.
acfreund 2 years ago
John Birch Society?? Do they still exist? Lyndon LaRouche? Is he alive? Geez. How old are you anyway? LOL. I am an old time leftist but I just hate incompetent leftists leading their people on with BS while they are living the high life.
acfreund 2 years ago
Racism is illegal in Cuba so it is clearly not a fascist regime. Micheletti is a piece of racist white trash who must be removed immediately.
rb1601 2 years ago
I didn't that racism was the only point of consideration for facism. You are quite right that everyone has the right to be hungry in Cuba. Oh except if you are a Castro or related.
acfreund 2 years ago
acfreund, you still haven't answered my question. Were the International Brigades "imperialists"? All fascist regimes should be overthrown by force.
rb1601 2 years ago
I wouldn't call the Brigades imperialists. Meddlers maybe. I wouldn't call Micheleti and his boys fascist. Usurpers probably and poor PR people definitely. Would you call Castro and family fascist? I would. If you are for overthrowing all dictatorial regimes, you have a point. A dictator is a dictator is a dictator.
acfreund 2 years ago
Were the International Brigades fighting General Franco "imperialists"?
rb1601 2 years ago
Ah but rb1601, you were hoping for an full scale invasion by Venezuela and Nicaraguan forces under Chavez and Ortega. This would show these two as nothing more than imperialists meddling in other countries affairs which of course they are, despite their rhetoric.
acfreund 2 years ago
But you still think these gangsters should have seized power. If they don't step down soon then I hope Chavez and Ortega will launch a full scale invasion. I would be very happy to take part in it.
rb1601 2 years ago
LOL. Spoken like a true imperialist. Chavez es un payaso. Chavez was hoping for a massacre when he sent Mariachi Mel back to Tegus on Sunday.
acfreund 2 years ago
Oh, I'm very calm thank you. I know that the regime you support has no credibility. You are deluded if you seriously think that this right-wing racist regime is supported by all Hondurans.
rb1601 2 years ago
And these white trash would still be in charge. They are afraid of losing their privileges, that's all.
rb1601 2 years ago
Do you regard Obama as "a little black man"? These are racist trash.
rb1601 2 years ago
One old man made an ignorant statement and you view all Hondurans as white racist trash. Calm down.
acfreund 2 years ago
He's the de facto foreign minister of Honduras. He's used racially inflammatory language against Obama at least three times in the past couple of weeks. If he's wanting any hope of American acceptance or assistance, at best he's shooting himself in the foot.
qwertyman129 2 years ago
Totally agree.
acfreund 2 years ago
He is gone now, history...
Georgesosa247 2 years ago
The new regime describes Obama as "a little black man". Do you call that competent leadership?
rb1601 2 years ago
The majority of Hondurans support the removal of Zelaya. Don't delude yourself into thinking that it is the "oligarchy". Chavez, Ortega, Evo and Zelaya are the new oligarchs and imperialists. They along with the "hermanos Castro" are the true tyrants. All are incompetent leaders.
acfreund 2 years ago
all commies should be removed at gun point..
mrgeneralpinochet 2 years ago
...But depending on the political and business interests of the country and leader in question, the Western "democracies" will act and respond differently when a coup takes place. This is all a complicated international political games and believe me, there's no way you're going to be getting fair and unbiased facts from CNN / BBC / Aljazeera. These people are just acting in accordance with the policy of their nations.
avcomth 2 years ago
It is NOT the "elite" or the "upper class" that oppresses the peasants and the grassroot people. But the very man these idiots elected is the one cheating elections, stealing money from the country, even trying to change the law to facilitate their corruption processes. These leaders whether its Zelaya of Honduras, Marcos of the Philippines, Suharto of Indonesia, or Thaksin Shinawatra of Thailand are all "Satans in the faces of Angels"...
avcomth 2 years ago
...Western nations do not recognise that Honduras or Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand, etc. are not like the US or UK. The infrastructure which are the building blocks of democracy in these nations are much weaker and most often the system of "check and balance" are corrupted themselves.
avcomth 2 years ago
...really knows what is happending are much less in numbers, there's no way out for the country, at least not by democratic election. Whatever lies that corrupted leader put forward, those peasants keep endorsing them wholeheartedly without any question. This is why it was necessary to use force or step outbound of the democratic processes for the good of the country...
avcomth 2 years ago
This Zelaya guy is at the equivalent corruption level of "Ferdinand Marcos" or "Suharto". The only difference between Honduras and Philippines is that Honduras still have brave and honest people left in government who's not afraid to take matters into their hands when crisis comes to a pivotal point. When you have a nation full of idiot peasants who keep electing corrupted but generous leaders, there's a stalemate situation present.Because the middle class and the educated upper classes who...
avcomth 2 years ago
Zelaya broke the law multiple times and violated the constitution. Hondurans are fighting for freedom and real democracy. We dont want interventions of Chavez/Ortega and the rest of the Communist clan. We love our country. Pro Micheletti followers have peaceful protests all over the country and abroad. Zelaya's followers use violence and disrespect private and public property.
k3095 2 years ago
The elections of liberals, democrats or leftists Presidents in Latinamerica is a reality. Before democracy existed in many countries, there used to be a lot of right wing dictators. Now that elections are allowed, people are electing lefties all over including Obama. Slowly the warmongers are less and less and more sensible people abound...
Mr1279495 2 years ago 2
Lol like thieves are sensible people. BTW the wars wouldn't have been happening if the lefties hadn't been instigating in the first place.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
The first cold war is over..Latin America does not desire to be the eternal pawn of empires...We want the USA ,corporations to understand that their interest are not Paramount to the interest of Latinamericans and their democracies..We're tired of that dirty game. If right wingers want war with Russia let them go to war and destroy themselves..but dont try to start a second cold war when relations are good with Russia...
Mr1279495 2 years ago
Young kids shot dead in the demo at Tegucigalpa airport!!!
And you are still supporting the coup?
Really? Shame on you...
At least support those murderers for what they are: DICTATORS
drizztf88 2 years ago
What the HELL Obama is doing by ignoring what is going on in Honduras ?. If Chavez manage to get into Honduras territory , then Russia will basically be at the USA doorstep . Let's remember that El Salvador is now join forces with Chavez .... This has to stop NOW .. We can't allow the enemy get to close to USA ... ARE THE USA CITIZENS BLIND ? , What were They thinking when They gave the power to a MUSLIM . Will the USA have to wait for another PEARL HARBOR to open Their eyes ?.
blinkangels44 2 years ago
For all the idiots condemning this legitimate act to defend the constitution and calling it a "coup". Search for keyword "Thaksin Shinawatra" and "Thailand coup". This was the EXACT same thing that happened in 2006. An extremely corrupted by vastly popular (among the rural poor) PM was ousted in a bloodless coup. People came out on the streets with flowers and snacks and posed for pictures in front of tanks. Why nobody condemns Thailand? Don't believe in all the things you're told by CNN/BBC!!
avcomth 2 years ago
What I have noted is that people around the web assume that Honduran dont have a saying in this. If they want to have a marxist country let them. If they suffer and their mind change, its up to them to act on it.
hevo1 2 years ago
hi this is not a coup with this Manuel Zelaya Chávez and Fidel Castro they are communists and murderers in Honduras we are free and sovereign are not communists
90% of people agree that the removal of corrupt
all these people who are in favor of Zelaya is paid by the government of venezuela and cuba
hjmsi 2 years ago
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hjmsi 2 years ago
I dunno what to comment about OAS. This organization has deviated its most sublime principle of curbing the spread and infiltration of Communism when established in 1948.
Now these politicians decided to suspend the membership of Honduras simply because Hoduras new leader has the guts to fight against Communism.
I wouldn't be at all suprised if the next step of OAS is to succumb to Commie assholes and revive the membership of Cuba.
josserif556 2 years ago
La cagaron debieron enjuciarlo en honduras ahora ya es tarde deven debolverle poder
trabajoturismo2 2 years ago
well, that's one less chavez to worry about! cheers to the honduras military for that.
feastguy101 2 years ago
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e torpeza En que contitucion del mundo en ves de enjuiciarlo lo destierran me parese que honduras es un pais muy analfabeto lo combirtieron en un heroe a zelaya ante los ojos del mundo ahora los jueses no tienen autoridad moral para enjuciarlo
chupacabrras 2 years ago
que en honduras no hay escuelas del derecho
chupacabrras 2 years ago
please check out my new channel, fishsilly2, worldwiderevolution. we will be keeping tabs on this, and creating vids that support poeple fighting against coups, or protesting to overturn corrupt governments, revolutions, protest, ect. all as long as int is the poeples will. we beleive in freedom, the right of the poeple not to be oppressed, to stop poverty and the ill teatment of poeple. we are concentrating on Iran, and honduras. also check out fishsilly1 excusively for Iran Revolution ty
fishsilly2 2 years ago
the UN, OAS and other democratic countries have condemned the coup,the era of the rightwing juntas in Latin America is over and our countries are finally being represented by truly elected leaders who have there peoples interest in mind not by european transplants who achieved power through the military and maintained that power through oppresive measures,this is a desperate attempt by the rightwing who knows there era of corrupt power is over,and though international support the people will win
aztecadog 2 years ago
That is because the UN and the OAS are idiots. Let the Hondurans run their own country. It was there Supreme Court that removed Zelaya after all.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
They are not idiots, they are hypocrites, they want Cuba to come back to the organization in spite of the fact that there is no democracy in Cuba, there has not been a free election for more than 50 years, nevertheless they exclude Honduras.
trenougar 2 years ago
Well I guess it is pretty obvious then that when they say "democracy" what they are actually meaning is "Marxism."
Assholes.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
Manuel Zelaya had to go,there was not other way,we did no have time,he was about to sell our country to Chavez
johann1391 2 years ago
look for allan macdonald, he is a cartoon maker in a newspaper a pro-coup newspaper but he felt this is wrong and made his mind in a draw in sunday 29,that night at 3:00am military people get in his house kidnap him with his 17 month baby girl and they burn all his material a documents......if this is not a coup what is??????
curiossss 2 years ago
Go to websites like "alternate" "aporrea" indymedia org...It seem no neocon sionist media is informing about this issue
AwKaQhAwA 2 years ago
Int'l community should leave it for people of Honduras to decide.
I was suprised UN made such a haste resolution to interfere in domestic affairs of Honduras regardless of the controversy lying beneath.
It's ridiculous that foreign governments should decide what is better for Hondurans.
Glad that Taiwan is not a member of UN, we don't need to be a part of nor bounded by that resolution.
I personally support this Constitutional Transition if it meets the will of most Honduran people.
josserif556 2 years ago
All european nations has retrieve their diplomats and the UN are given 72 hours to reinstate the president Zelaya...all those who said it was not a coup then all thae nations who are condemming are liars?
AwKaQhAwA 2 years ago
Not liars. They just don't know about the illegal activities(the venezuelan drug planes, the illegal attempt to amend the constitution.) We cannot afford to be the next Cuba. The president of Honduras was Chavez not Zelaya. The communist wave came to a crash here. The new government has already stated that it will not give in to the UN or OAS. This is a Honduran problem. When Chavez attempted a coup it was a failed revolution when Hondurans defend their constitution its a coup. Ironic isn't it?
lightemup249 2 years ago 2
The point isn't that Zelaya committed crimes, it's that he wasn't afforded any due process of law or lawful removal procedure. He was simply kidnapped and exiled at the point of a gun.
I have no problem with the removal of Zelaya. It seems like he was violating the constitution. But impeach him, or set up a special tribunal; even a criminal president deserves due process of law.
qwertyman129 2 years ago
...But is there a 'lawful' removal procedure in the Honduran constitution?
I haven't heard anything about an impeachment procedure, for instance.
Also, in many countries, being an elected official is a privileged, not a right. Thus, it's not necessarily protected by due process in the same way as a private citizen's actions--although I don't know how true this is for Honduras.
SparkamusPryme 2 years ago
I haven't read about an impeachment procedure in the Constitution either. That doesn't prevent the Congress from setting one up.
In any event, the proper response to "We don't have a constitutional provision for removal of officials," should not be "Well, we'll order the military to remove him." It should be "Well, let's set up a procedure for lawful removal."
qwertyman129 2 years ago
"Well, let's set up a procedure for lawful removal."
Maybe they just did through their actions?
We won't know if what they did was legal until the Honduran courts decide. Given that the courts are on the side of the Congress, I think they'll find an interpretation of law to fit the Congress's actions.
(But you're right, ideally they wouldn't need to break the spirit of the law to get the president ousted)
SparkamusPryme 2 years ago
(I'm not trying to say that either side has moral authority, I'm just trying to point out that 'legality' isn't at all clear cut in this case")
SparkamusPryme 2 years ago
If this is going to be the procedure going forward, then the procedure is wrong. Democracy in Central America has gone too far for it to become "If Congress believes you have violated the Constitution, it will order the military to exile you."
For the immediate situation, I don't know what should happen next. It seems as though Zeyala violated the constitution, is popularly and politically unpopular, and his term is over in six months. Restoring him seems like it would be impractical at best.
qwertyman129 2 years ago
"For the immediate situation, I don't know what should happen next. "
Heh, I guess I'm not the only one.
: )
I don't like that the military is censoring news sources and blocking websites. For instance, they apparently censored CNN, which doesn't have a regional political agenda that I know of.
SparkamusPryme 2 years ago
Get your facts straight!! He was ruled AGAINST by the SUPREME COURT for having violated the constitution!! That process in itself renders him out of office automatically. There was also another Prime Minister from Thailand named "Samak Sundaravej" who was kicked out of office by the country's "Constitutional Court" last year but nobody--esp. the US--seems to have any problem with that?!?
avcomth 2 years ago
As far as I've been able to tell, there was an order from a single Supreme Court justice to remove Zelaya from office. There was no impeachment, and no full ruling by the court, and certainly no hearing or trial to provide due process.
qwertyman129 2 years ago
Congress and the Supreme Court all ruled against Zelaya. I agree that Zelaya should have been arrested and tried.
acfreund 2 years ago
Yes, Congress and the SC thought the proposed referendum was unconstitutional. They should have impeached him, not sent the military to break into his house.
Check out Alvara Llosa's Washington Post article on this. It articulates my position on this pretty well. What should have and could have been a lawful removal of President Zelaya became a coup.
We should not start a precedent of having the military whisk away an elected leader because he is unpopular and believed to have broken the law.
qwertyman129 2 years ago
qwertyman129. I agree the coup was a huge tactical error.
acfreund 2 years ago
It was, and several of their actions since have been very unfortunate and have pretty much undermined what they say they were trying to fix by removing Zelaya in the first place, including forgery of a resignation letter, arresting ministers, beating and killing protesters, suspension of constitutional rights, manipulation of newspaper photos of protesters bleeding from the head, and removal of the mayor of San Pedro, to be replaced by Micheletti's own nephew.
qwertyman129 2 years ago
Agreed but Mel, after prodding from Chavez, brought a lot of this on himself. He lost support of his own party and the vast majority of the country. Micheleti is a member of Zelaya's party. Also Zelaya had allowed Honduras to become a transshipment point for drugs coming from Venezuela. He was an incompetent President. Still having said that the coup was extremely impatient and foolish.
acfreund 2 years ago
I agree on every point except the Venezuelan drugs, about which I honestly don't know enough for an informed opinion.
qwertyman129 2 years ago
I am from Honduras and I am very proud of the military,no to Chavez and Zelaya yes to democracy,viva Honduras
NYBEAST380 2 years ago 3
i agree with you VIVA HONDURAS.
listner90 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There was NO military coup because:
1- the military didnt take over
2- the constitutional order remains intact
people are confused because they have never seen nothing like it, thats it. we wont take a president that is so corrupt, just because he is the president he has no right to abuse of Honduras!
4immerfrei 2 years ago
General Vasquez, we owe you one!!!
burninator022 2 years ago
God bless Honduras Military!!! I hope the American military will have the balls to do the same if Obama tries that shit here!!!
obone2008 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
listner90 2 years ago
Congratulations to the Honduran people for taking their country back and saving your democracy. Zelaya should be arrested and tried for drug trafficking.
4stemcellresearch 2 years ago 3
THANK YOU!
Zelaya broke the law- wanted full control of Honduras- and was found criminally liable. The duly elected govt called on its military to force Zelaya's departure.
This was NOT A MILITARY COUP!
Get it right before u believe what you see the mass media/ drug cartel spin...
Follow the drug and oil dollars...
the cia is working overtime these days w/ their brand of USA democracy and freedom-
pooh-pooh
BankstersUSA 2 years ago
"if you condemn this coup your side with Hugo Chavez Castro and the president of boliva" And I do! it is two very good presidents. Example for others. None faik democracies like the United States. Real democracies where not capitalists control but the people choose policy.
reinhart567 2 years ago
if the US govermen thinks comunist threat is over think twice and check this.
lugue79 2 years ago
Zeleya was trying to become a permanent dictator and he was illegally trying to change the constitution to do so. He was arrested by order of the Supreme Court and Attorney General. Zeleya's arrest was neither illegal or a coup.
Cenamark2 2 years ago
Cenamark2, spot on. The problem was the execution of this detention. They should have arrested him and put him on trial rather than flying him to Costa Rica. That would have avoided all the "coup" labels. Hopefully the gov't will find a way to fix their mistake.
EP4LFC 2 years ago
if you condemn this coup your side with Hugo Chavez Castro and the president of boliva all crazed communist and want to decentralize and bring back the great pain and suffering south America endured though out the 70s 80s and 90s. as these nations try to wipe away there past of third world countries these communist try to bring them back to that position
pfcsusczynski 2 years ago
what do you talking about? all fucking coup should be condemned, not? are talking about a sitting president pull out of his house in pajamas and dropped in nowhere outside his country?
Why don't you just fucking pull the trigger and kill him??? what does communism have to do with this shit?
syzws 2 years ago
he is a communist socialist what ever you know that right you know he is break his country constitution right we should have done that here
pfcsusczynski 2 years ago
I support the people of Honduras and the exile of this communist mini dictator. Dont listen to Obama, America is with you Honduras.
BattleBeast81imback 2 years ago
This is what needs to happen to Obama for abusing our constitution.
BattleBeast81imback 2 years ago
If anyone out there has difficulties knowing what to think regarding the situation in Honduras, then I recommend a shortcut and easy way to take a stand, just read what this kind of morons shout and do the opposite.
ElAlexxis 2 years ago 2
Shut the fuck up Commie rat.. There are term limits in the Constitution, He BROKE THE LAW by extending his term. The constitution is LAW, not the president. AMERICA SUPPORTS YOU HONDURAS, everyone that voted McCain supports your actions, and thats the half of America that has a brain. So good job, Obama is next to be ousted for abusing our constitution.
BattleBeast81imback 2 years ago
FUCK ZELEYA FUCK OBAMA BROTHER WILL WIPE THESE COMMUNIST OUT OF SOUTH AMERICA ONE DAY as obama tries his soft tyranny here he will see that people are fed up and if mister Chavez and miter Castro tries to send there soldiers to Honduras i tell you now every Honduran and American soldier stationed there will fight these Marxist murders
pfcsusczynski 2 years ago
Aman!!!
obone2008 2 years ago
Annie get your guns....
Ah yes, the Reagan years, during which time Honduras was the base for CIA training of Nicaraguan death squads.
Marly61 2 years ago 2
continued....
This was also the era during which John Negroponte was helping flood the country with military aid so that Battalion 316 could murder and torture dissidents. Proceeding:
Zelaya, elected in November 2005 on the platform of Honduras Liberal Party, had proposed the opinion poll be conducted to determine if a majority of citizens agreed that constitutional reform was necessary. He was backed by a majority of labor unions and social movements in the country.
Marly61 2 years ago
If the poll had occured, depending on the results, a referendum would have been conducted during the upcoming elections in November to vote on convening a constitutional assembly. Nevertheless, todays scheduled poll was not binding by law. In fact, several days before the poll was to occur, Honduras Supreme Court ruled it illegal, upon request by the Congress, both of which are led by anti-Zelaya majorities and members of the ultra-conservative party, National Party of Honduras (PNH).
Marly61 2 years ago
Supposedly at the center of the controversary is todays scheduled referendum, which is not a binding vote but merely an opinion poll to determine whether or not a majority of Hondurans desire to eventually enter into a process to modify their constitution.Such an initiative has never taken place in the Central American nation, which has a very limited constitution that allows minimal participation by the people of Honduras in their political processes.
Marly61 2 years ago
Annie get your guns.....
The current constitution, written in 1982 during the height of the Reagan Administrations dirty war in Central America, was designed to ensure those in power, both economic and political, would retain it with little interference from the people.
Marly61 2 years ago
"It's like so many coups that have taken place in Latin America over the past 100 years, against the wishes of the people and against a president who merely is trying to hold a popular vote."
Leaders across the Americas have condemned Honduras's military after it forced Manuel Zelaya, the president, to seek exile in Costa Rica.
Marly61 2 years ago
agreed hughster41. I was thinking how obama thinks he's seeing his own future - and thinks it's time to put a preemptive stop to THAT idea..HAHA. obama is an idiot.
igglesgirl419 2 years ago
this is to pacrod. We intelligent people around the world support you.
The President is nothing more than a civil servant of the people.
The government in a true democratic state is actuallly supposed to be afraid of the people because the people control the military and the judicial courts.
zaneshark 2 years ago
Support the Coup! Support democracy!
Zelaya should be impeached and thrown in the rotten jail where he belongs. All hail the military!
zaneshark 2 years ago
Comment removed
zaneshark 2 years ago
Congratulation to the HONDURAS ARMY. You ve got the guts that lacks the whores of your counterparts in Venezuela.
jorcol66 2 years ago 2
Zelaya planned a referendum not a "poll"
Chavez printed the ballots!
He got what he deserved! He wants to be President for life, that's not democracy.
newtonbrook 2 years ago
Mel Zelaya deserves to be put in Jail. He's a threat to democracy in Honduras. It is thanks to his decisions, influenced by Hugo Chavez, that he es out the presidency.
As I am from Honduras and love liberty, I support my army and deny Mel Zelaya as my president.
We ask for international help to investigate what's really happening in Honduras. Mel Zelaya violated the law and failed in his job as president.
Thanks FF AA and thanks fellow Honduras for speaking the truth.
Mel Zelaya traitor !
hippie1291 2 years ago 2
No one is above the nation. No one is above the Constituition.
When Zelaya run for the job he knew that if ellected it would be just for 1 term. If he and others don't like it then fight for the change of the Constitution first. Yes, it takes time but true democrats don't put their egos above the law.
The joke on Honduras ended and the military done the right thing. They kick the guy out... Now the people can choose another leader, respecting the integrity of the Constituition.
celiamelo75 2 years ago 2
I wish this would happen here in the USA! someone take charge and give us back our government.
bohemianh 2 years ago
CNN aren't well informed. I'm in Honduras...I'm living this. At least give me the benefit of the doubt of knowing the facts.
This was not a referendum...it was an illegal poll. The executive can't hold polls and approve them...only the congress can. Not all constitutions are the same, Marly. I'm surprised you don't know this. Please study the Honduran Constitution. Google it. It's all there. I'm not lying to you. You just refuse to acknowledge the facts because you're a leftist sympathizer...
pacorod 2 years ago
This was a poll, just a poll, NOT a referendum witch as you say is "illegal".
As a poll its has no legal binding! and NOWHERE in the world are polls illegal, not even i Honduras!
When military kidnaps an elected president at gunpoint and drops him in another country, that is a MILITARY COUP!
That is not some kind of "democratic transition".
Its doest matter how much makeup you try to put on it. Be true to yourself, you are just another coup supporter. Its no unusual.
ElAlexxis 2 years ago
English translation of the constitutional article written in stone:
ARTICLE 4 .- The form of government is republican, democratic and representative. Is exercised by three branches: legislative, executive and judicial, and independent and complementary relationship of subordination. Alternation in the presidency of the Republic is required. Violation of this rule constitutes the crime of treason.
pacorod 2 years ago
marly,
here you go:
ARTICULO 4.- La forma de gobierno es republicana, democrática y representativa. Se ejerce por tres poderes: Legislativo, Ejecutivo y Judicial, complementarios e independientes y sin relaciones de subordinación. La alternabilidad en el ejercicio de la Presidencia de la República es obligatoria. La infracción de esta norma constituye delito de traición a la Patria.
Google "Honduras Constitution".
pacorod 2 years ago
extend or allow a second term for Mel Zelaya. He was BREAKING CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, no matter how you put it, and he must be held accountable. For christ's sake...people were being turned down from state hospitals unless they signed agreement for a constitutional assembly. Manuel Zelaya was a CRIMINAL president, and only a minute minority are protesting his oust. The majority of us are VERY HAPPY he's gone.
pacorod 2 years ago
pacorod,
Actually, I can see you are not familar constitutional law and its processes. As referendums are a constitutional process by which changes to a constitution are and can be made. Do you know that the coup leaders have admitted that they are trying to justify the coup by saying that the constitutional process he is using is breaking the law and that most constitutional experts are laughing at that argument, from Obama to The UN?
Marly61 2 years ago