I am glad that they balanced the classes out a bit, for sake of freedom you can take since that point. Like in AD&D and D&D 3.5 Wizard was so overpowered that for many of things he had to pay with his xp and shitload of gold. Like death of a familiar - you loose like 2k xp and can't summon him for year and one day... creating a wand or potion costs you ass-load of xp hence there was no point in doing alchemy or any real magic crafting. 4th ed lets you to explore bit more the areas left obscure
My main problem with 4e is that characters can, quite literally, become amazingly godly. I really like playing 4e at lower levels, but 3.5 is awesome any time. I really wish a single goblin could hit me in 4e... Anything with the D20 system is pretty awesome though.
"Well, I know someone with a ranger that at first level can do up to 65 points of damage..." Yeah, you lost me right there. This is just a video game that I have to do all the math with as well....
I played a D&D encounters session for the first time a couple of weeks ago. It was a lot of fun. If you can find a store near you that hosts these games, I recommend trying it out. At least two of the players that night had never played 4th edition before (they had played earlier editions, though).
but min-maxing HAS disadvantages, lots of charisma and strength(or constitution) for the paladin is nowhere NEAR as useful as a high wisdom as high wisdom = ability to quickly heal anyone AND take a hit, while min-maxers will focus too much on the constitution as they want to take a lot of hits.
notes: breath weapon should have you choose what element and stat to use WHEN YOU USE IT (as i highly doubt that there are many types of dragonborn, they apparently came from the original dragon god so they would have power over all 5 of those elements)
@cavalier973 I listen to their pod casts, and it's 90% role playing, 10% 4E. It's fun b/c those guys are fun. Not saying someone won't like it, but that's an unfair example.
@nstiles42 One could also go to enworld dot com and look for Piratecat's 4e game thread (it should be under the 4th edition section). It's pretty epic.
If you have friends you can play with and you enjoy the setting and sitting around joking while playing a game and possibly drinking, then yes, it is :)
4th edition is a piece of shit. The character classes are indeed very similar in flavor and in the nature of their abilities. WOTC was so obsessed with balance that they decided that making the classes almost indistinguishable is a GOOD thing. WOTC was just waiting, greedily rubbing their hands together and waiting, for the day Gygax died so they could butcher D&D and turn it into World of Warcraft.
The thing that will never appeal to me is how front-loaded 4e is. The concept of tradeoffs and giving characters areas they do poorly in is right out the window. In previous editions there were characters who weren't good at certain things. In 4e there are only characters who are "less awesome"...or, really, not even any less awesome. Everyone is good or great at anything. That, and there is not any real resource management anymore. Most things anyone can do whenever.
i COMPLETELY agree with you on rolling stats. sure..it might fuck you're powerplaying, but that just makes all your choices more important when playing.
I actually liked the dragon born, there intimidate could get crazy high XD. I remember getting a 20 while trying to intimidate a mechanical snake.. and it worked.
i've played 4th ed with my friends and 1 of them just can't play the game, he always complains when he misses with his daily power and says "this is why i hate this edition, when i miss with a daily power...I CAN'T USE IT AGAIN till the next day" and i keep telling him, every time "you'd abuse the daily power if it was an at will power", he just complains about everything if it doesn't go his way at times in campaigns
If you follow what the builder tells you, you'll get a boring and not very good character. And regarding having something special, it's very easy to make character special, due to customization. I have a defender built on grabbing 2 characters at once. He was so effective, i never got to grab a second creature, as all the strikers got to do their work, while having a different feel from a normal defender. I have a defender which regenerates from critting all the time.
Hey morons: 4th edition DOES provide rules for rolling your stats. If you want to have one player who has two 18s and a 17, while another player has no stats above 12 because he/she rolled poorly, the book will accommodate you.
The 4ed is good for somethngs but they killed many terms, races and other specialities... for example: What Happened with Aasimar, dwarven/elven/gnome/halfing races? what happened with the Prestige Class Concept? Why did the mutliclass and hybrid class changed the ideas about them? What happened with Crafting and professions? Yes, I'm a rookie/amateur but I saw and read some books and i've some 3.5 and 4ed to compare and have my personal view. 4ed good in many things, 3.5 is a bit better ;)
@paulnatcia I always thought it'd be cool if racial special abilities depended on your class.
Like, ie., if your a halfling rogue your race ability is that you're better at picking locks. Or if you're a halfling barbarian you have the 'fuck yo' critical' ability.
the problem I have with 4th edition is that the focus is too much on combats strategy. Also, I hate flipping cards when I play, It takes the imagination side off and takes me off the game. I really feel like I'm playing a board game. I play a ranger, and they have taken away all that was related to roleplay, the bind the ranger had with nature, etc. Rangers have become just a constantly moving killing machine...which gets boring to play eventually.
Explanation. PROBLEMS direct the players towards a goal. Enter dungeon, slaughter everything, kill boss. Get optimal skills and gear. The ribble rabble regarding why you're there is pretty much irrelevant, because being in the dungeon grinding IS the actual game, not the awkward purpose why the character is always in a dungeon.
CHOICES let the players choose their goal and the means to get there. You don't have ANY choices in D&D. Hence, it's a HORRIBLE RPG. I don't even consider it an RPG.
Also, in response to you calling it a HORRIBLE RPG; it is actually the most famous and well-known RPG ever made.
Seriously, look up Dungeons and Dragons, as well as RPG, on wikipedia.
Here's the definition of an RPG: "A role-playing game (RPG) is a broad family of games in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting."
D&D is what is called a "pen-and-paper" RPG, which basically was the foundation for ALL roleplaying games: "This is the format in which role-playing games were first popularized. The first commercially available RPG, Dungeons & Dragons (D&D), was inspired by fantasy literature and the wargaming hobby and was published in 1974...
The popularity of D&D led to the birth of the pen-and-paper role-playing game industry, which publishes games with a wide variety of themes, rules, and styles of play.
This format is often referred to simply as a role-playing game. To distinguish this form of RPG from other formats, the retronyms pen and paper role-playing game or tabletop role-playing game are sometimes used, though neither pen and paper nor a table are strictly necessary."
There is more than one type of RPG. Some of them fall under your definition, with lots of choices, ect. That is called a "storytelling game". Others, like D&D, focus more on game mechanics and combat.
I've played a little 2nd edition AD&D as well as some 3.0 and 3.5 edition, but I hadn't tried 4th edition because of what one of my friends had said about it. I was a bit apprehensive about trying 4th, but after hearing some reviews I don't think I want to. I think I'll stick with 3.5 edition (which I liked) and perhaps Pathfinder (which I have yet to try)...Thank you for the informative review.
Also, 4th edition seems like another move away from an actual roleplaying game. I didn't much like 3(.5)rd edition, but I think this one is even worse. Like the biggest aspect, the balance. Admittedly balance in skills, combat and levelling between classes wasn't perfect in 2nd, but the balance was perfect in roleplaying. Everyone in an adventurers group can participate, either solving puzzles with high Intelligence or guarding the rear as a cowardly thief. No matter what the level difference is
@Snaus I see Dungeons & Dragons strictly as a tabletop strategy game. People who pretend it's a roleplaying game are fooling themselves big time. And if people actually want to roleplay, D&D probably has the most ridiculous world lore and rules to support non-combat interaction with that I've ever seen.
I'm not saying grinding monsters with friends can't be fun, but this would be the last game I would play if I wanted to play an actual role playing game.
@ubbecykelkedja Exactly. Most people who hate 4e are on that side of things. I've always cared more about the roleplaying side (basically a geekified Middle Earth), and the rules have always been a hinderance. 1e is almost unplayably arbitrary, 2e is unbalanced, 3e is too complicated, 4e is so balanced it's flavorless. I could more easily run a good "D&D" game using White Wolf rules, than I could with 4e rules.
@7j8i9m And I mean old White Wolf, with a slightly custom sheet, because the old White Wolf rules allow room for flavor. 4e doesn't. Old White Wolf rules still suck, but they leave a boatload of room for good roleplaying.
Nobody's pretending or fooling themselves; Dungeons & Dragons IS a roleplaying game (specifically a "pen-and-paper" RPG). I really don't know how you can say it's not; if you look up the definition of an RPG, D&D falls right in there. If its not your thing, that's perfectly fine, but saying its not a roleplaying game is just plain incorrect.
@JMDub89 Please. Rail shooters like D&D is an RPG only by name. There isn't one single RPG worth the name that has 95% of its contents regarding combat. The awkward "role playing" scenarios in between the cave grinding, in an inconsistent and - even by fantasy standards - unbelievable world, doesn't change much.
An RPG leaves you with actual choices and dilemmas. All D&D gives you, is mathematical calculations and problems. Huge difference. An RPG is supported by the rules. D&D IS the rules.
Dude, you create a character (with stats, abilities, a history, ect) and act out adventures. That is an RPG. I agree there is a lot of combat and rules, but that doesn't mean anything; an RPG is an RPG (there are many different kinds). Again, if you look up the definiton of an RPG, D&D qualifies. Just because you don't consider it one doesn't mean it isn't...
Minions?! What the heck is that all about? Goblins are people too. They live in a society and have roles and jobs and a family to feed. If my party enters a goblin lair, they enter someone's home. And they 'randomly' run into groups of goblins, who may be weak, but who will use goblin tactics. (Flee, regroup, roll Indiana Jones type boulder at heroes).
Next thing is that you won't see no more debates between the CG Thief and the LG Paladin about keeping the goblin hostage alive!?
@Snaus Then the CG Thief and the LG Paladin turn around to see the CN gnome wizard with the (now multicolored with clown shoes and "I suck" tattooed on it's face) goblin. I love cantrips.
@Snaus Minions aren't just restricted to monster races, you know. Every race is equal in its ability to churn out nameless, faceless goons to mow down. (It does, however, make it increasingly unlikely that those goblins live long enough to become prisoners in the first place. Take that for what you will.
3.5 is still my standard for the very reason of customization. I understand a lot of what was said, and it's all true. The sameness though is what absolutely kills 4th edition for me. 3.5 was fairly balanced. Yes, a wizard is certainly able to dish out more immediate death at high levels then a "normal" fighter. BUT the wizard needs to stay a pure arcanist, the fighter has the option of reaching those levels in so many more ways. Multi-classing is the shine for me.
I've read some of the posts here and have come to the conclusion that you are all right, and wrong equally. If D&D was a board or a card game (exclusively) then you would be bound by the rules. Roleplaying is just that, its a game that demands you take creative license or you failed to understand it.
D&D is a guide all around; 2nd, 3rd, 3.5, 4th are all part of the whole. Use them to discover your own creativity.
@impactorfactor Perhaps you've already figured it out, but the cards are not mandatory at all in the game, nor do they have any impact on gameplay. They are just a way to organize your powers into small quick reference blocks, providing a standard notation for powers you can print and refer to during play.
I'd have to disagree with spooney on this one, nothing sucks more than being the guy with all 10's in his stats having to be in the same party with the kid who rolls 3 18's, 16, 14, and a 8....it's kinda like pissing in the wind, because the main problem with previous editions of D&D is everything has to be based around the most powerful player, so in that instance, 4e is more of a team game than one for 1 superstar and the rest filler.
The problem with D&D4 is not that it's a bad game, but that it's becoming LESS of a rpg and MORE of a miniature wargame - kind of like going back to Chainmail of the early 70s.
Basically, what I hate about this new version is:
1 - Everyone is a powerhouse at L1
2 - Limited customization
3 - ROLLplaying bias (not "role")
4 - Pointless standard campaign setting
5 - Computer gaming mechanics
6 - Retarded DM "Pro" tips (I pity any newcomer to D&D)
homebrew has always been much better than core rules in my opinion....once you hit 20 in d&d, you were pretty much godlike anyway, even after they added the epic levels. I did away with levels and did point system based on what you did in a session (awarding a point in each attribute to the person who used it the most, among 4-6 players, 2 of each for 6-10). Along with other changes with spells
Lets put it this way, Everyone would love 4th edition if it didn't have the dnd name. 4th edition is really a great game, you need to get past the new and just enjoy it like its a new game.
Should a high level fighter really be balanced with a high level wizard? As far as I'm concerned, outclassing a fighter is my reward for the pain ans squishyness of being a low level necromancer.
I came in with 3.5 (and I've played 2 via baldur's gate) that's the game that made me like dnd, the game where I could make a unique character every time with multiclassing and prc's. 4 feels like I should just pick up a videogame.
@Craydon I disagree. As a GM, it becomes increasingly hard to balance a game so the fighter and wizard are still having fun, and if the players aren't having fun, why are they still playing? Of course, my GMing philosophy is that no player's fun should come at the expense of the any other's. That's what 4th Edition D&D does well. EVERYONE can do something extraordinary, at least some of the time. Every player can have fun doing whatever it is their class does best. (Except for leaders; poor guys
@thehorror2 Sure, one of the things that attracted me to this type of gaming is the flexibility to be who I want. Building a character was like a game within the game and it was something that videogames didn't do much if ever. And I really enjoyed it, converting character concepts into classes for characters just for fun.
@Craydon You know what system(s) you might like? D20 Modern (and its myriad variations) and Star Wars SAGA Edition. Both rely on a seemingly pitiful number of classes to represent the staggering variety of characters in their universes. But they make each class heavily specialized, but customizable, and took out the multiclassing penalty, so you can mix and match at your leisure. Perfect hybrid between point buy systems and class based.
@thehorror2 I've moved on to just producing more art instead of gaming so much. With any luck some poor bastard will have to design a system to match my stuff.
I know you're saying Balanced, but i keep on hearing the word Boring. I kind of want to do my own thing & 4E just doesn't have the flexibility to tell the stories i want to tell.
I love 3.5 more I mean I have a sick support character... 6 paladin/14 cleric is the final goal but I'm as of right now 6 paladin/1 cleric but I got all the stability of a tank and i can heal a but load and still deal damage to all types of stuff i also have leadership feat so i have like 3 squires and they fight with me in the party i have a barbarian, ranger, sorc, and a customized bard...
@Silvershot6986 Firstly, i love the cleric and a tolerate paladins far better than others but put them together and you will no doubt have the most epic holy douchebag in the history of D&D
yea so here's how it goes lol paladin to lvl 6 with all that stuff and i have 108 hp at lvl 7 and the rest of the levels with be of cleric lol Good and Protection domain Deity is Moridan im a dwarf lol immune to poison and Disease and im such a douche lol im like be good or Die to my party lol and they get pissed cause they cant steal around me or murder people cause i try and give the enemies we take captive a second chance if they dont seem to evil lol
4th Edition = World of Warcraft in tabletop format. I'll pass.
As you covered, Spoony, there is no diversity. There's no difference between a ranger and another ranger, and another ranger. Hey! I have an idea now, let's all be Drizzt! Sounds fun! Not...
What about a game system that allows you to develop your character as a person; no class defined and we must find/join/develop our own class, which also develops as we (the players) want it to in relation to our characters innate attributes?
@impactorfactor i think that is calld GURPS. try the GURPS (Generic Universal Role Playing System) game. you get character points to develop your character however you want. also, the game is good for literally ANY genre.
@TheOnlyAttrition you are correct sir, though gurps is a bit to general and if you want to have a really well developed genera with the system you've got to add a fair number of house rules.
@TCOVproductions Well, yes it is a very general game system, but what i meant is fairly obvious: you are gonna need house rules to make it fit your game's genre and setting. but otherwise it is a good system.
@impactorfactor Several systems like that exist. Mutants & Masterminds was designed with superheroes in mind, but with a bit of tweaking the system can be used for almost anything. I've had less experience with other systems, but Savage Worlds, GURPS (in its untold myriads of variations) and to a lesser extent, the various editions of Shadowrun all do total character customization to a far greater extent than a race/class/level system ever could.
I love how I saw this video years ago, forgot all about it, started watching your videos again recently, and then I randomly see this video in your list and get a major sense of realization; "Holy crap, THAT'S where I saw this guy before."
I disagree with your statement that all characters are the same in 4th Edition. Yes there is optimization but with the variation of powers, feats and race while characters of the same class are similar they can play quite differently mechanically. There isn't as much variation as 3/3.5, but 3e took options to a horrible extreme, especially if you include 3rd party OGL shit. The book tells you how to optimize, but there is nothing saying that you must.
In 2nd Ed. Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, we could make a character sheet out half a piece of scrap paper. 3rd Ed. Was dumbed down but had amazing artwork which brought a lot more players to the game. 3.5 wasn't a needed update but it was more than less comparable with 3rd. 4th edition Wizards pissed on the last bit of TSR's vision and made a completely different game similar to an online RPG. 4th has is only similar to D&D by its name only.
I am new to D&D but one thing i do know is that the most important and most interesting differences between characters (regardless of race or class) is the way you roll play and the personality that you build. I have seen 2 fighters in different groups that may have close stats and abilities but the way the players use those abilities is like night and day. My point is that there are alot more options and ways to customize than you are pointing out in your review.
Damn. I guess roleplaying isn't the point of the game. Who gives a damn if all clerics are all the same. What matters is how you play that cleric. In addition, he didn't mention the options as you get higher level. I had and issue with 3.0 and 3.5 because there was so much flexibility that you had to devote a whole bunch of time to min and max your PC just to keep up with all of the munchkins who were playing at the same table. Which is not what the game is about. Don't believe play 1.0.
What you (people who hate 4th ed.) aren't getting, is the fact that in most cases, you are comparing 3.5 and 4. This is an un-just comparison because of the fact that 3.5 had time to grow. You are chosing which is better with a new game mechanic and an old used one. That's like saying, ya I'll take the 20 year old over the 5 year old becuase he is ready now, thus the 5 year old SUCKS! Give it time, I enjoy both 3.5 edition, and the 4th edition of D&D, but I believe 4th will become the superior.
I hate 4 because it kills the creativity of 3.5. I loved the fact that you could make your character ANYTHING. Want to be a rogue/mage. You can do that. Be a Warrior/Palladin/Mage/Rogue? Wouldn't be very good, but you CAN do that. It's fun to be creative and see what you can come up with. It's also a challenge for the GM because they have to adjust.
4 also feels alot like WoW. There's a reason I stopped playing WoW. Everything was "balanced" which is boring.
I basically prefer 3.5 because it's more complex than 4. I played 4 with some friends and I found that I was just ripping through everything with a level 4 fighter. All of my friends had level 14s that didn't do shit. I prefer 3.5 because everything was so well balanced that I would have been raped with a level 4 fighter
like i have said in my counter-review comments, i think that 1st and 2nd edition AD&D are the essence of what D&D was intended to be. when wizards bought out TSR (due to financial issues), i just knew it was going to be altered and I was dreading it. as i suspected, D&D now is shadow of its former self, taking out the,YOU MUST BE INTELLIGENT, AND BE A READER AND THINKER, and putting in the whole, AS LONG AS YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY MONOPOLY AND YOU ARE HALF RETARDED, you can play style in. shocker!
I kinda agree with the whole fighter or similar class slashing through the goblin deals. Most people that complain about it are looking at just a "class" and not realism. Of course the hero fighter type should be able to take out lots of creatures of the such vs just some small village brawler or town guard if not why give u quests and not just some guard or general in town the quest?
balance yes; but cheese, major cheese. Ad&d and 3rd give one a place to create unending- to evolve a "realistic" living growing game play... 4 is generic- as you say "to simplified" as I would say "dumbed down" and/or "boxed in" ~I'm still writing 3rd
Character generation is fast? Maybe if you are making 1st level characters. Try to make a 15th level character, make it fast, and make it good and effective (ie, not choose powers at random). In 4th Ed, making a mid level character of any class takes about the same amount of time as making a mid level wizard in previous editions. Instead of pouring over the spells for hours, now you are reading and choosing from 25 class specific powers and feats. Fun. Super Fun. Give me more of that. Blah!
What'd you mean about being able to min/max in 4th? As far as I read the rules... yea... you might have a couple cool daily/encounter powers. But it looks like every character, after 8 rounds will be stuck doing 1d8+their primary attribute mod.... be they level 1 or 20... still 1d8+(stat). Of course once you're super epic at level 21-30... you get 2d8+stat!!1!!
Actually, the psionic classes in the PHB 3 have an interesting idea where you have no encounters, but have at-wills and power points to fill them per encounter; an interesting and, yes, balanced concept. The problem? It came out 2 years later, so make of that what you will.
TO be fair, Gary Gygax may have started it all, but other people have made D&D what it is, people like Margaret Weis, Tracy Hickman, Douglas Niles, Monte Cook, Bill Slavisek, etc.
2nd edition was as good as it gets. WOTC are as bad as EA when it comes to raking in money. Even Gygax said they had bastardized and ruined D&D, and when he says it, you better believe it.
@Jeet27 An unfortunately big difference: Wizards treated it's staff, players and games well, and they actually liked gaming. I know WotC is still pretty much full stop for cash, but at least it wants while doing something it loves and giving people what they loved. Unless, of course, you thought Lorraine Williams was an improvement, then by all means, knock down Wizards of the...boast? Really?
i have dungeons and dragons on the xbox and its pretty cool and i also played the online version of the game but ive never played the board game...anyone wanna tell me what its like?
@guitarraplayer12 It is exceedingly complicated to explain, but I think it's probably the most rewarding hobby I've ever gotten into. Imagine D&D online, but you have total control over the story, you never run out of quests to complete, there's never any monthly fees, and as long as you've got a few friends around you never have to deal with pick-up-groups that don't know how to play their class. I recommend buying the new 4th Edition Red Box. It has the basic rules and a short quest.
I've actually had a great deal of fun with 3rd - 3.5 edition Dungeons & Dragons, and now that I'm DMing I'm switching to Pathfinder (mainly because it's hard / expensive to find a full set of 3.5 books), but I still agree completely with Spoony's assessment of D&D 4th so far.
Too cookie-cutter, not enough customization, too much like an MMORPG. You can have a lot of fun with it if you have a good DM, I know this from my own playing, but I'd never choose to run it.
In my campagins the make up is 60% roleplay 40% encount and I use 4e. You don't actually have to have access to the internets and you can still play it the old school way. Perhaps your all geting confused by the minitures game.
I Love those days where wizards wore hats and drow were drow,,, I have no need to venture beyond the 2nd Edition,,, it started in 3rd edition where "The Lowest Common Denominator" philosophy applies,,, classes are on varying learning curves for a reason,,, if they are all balanced,,, they start to look alike,,,
Bottom line is 4th edition is a stupified video game version of dnd. If you like mini battles then you would probably enjoy the sytem, but if you enjoy more roleplaying then this isn't a game you will enjoy.
Show me a Ranger that can do 65 damage in one round at first level and I'll say your full of sh!t! Warlords do mad damage in combat, I think you are reading your PHB upside down or something....Atleast play the game a few times before you morons make stupid one sided reviews on 4th edition. Seriously! And all you kooks saying "waah" RP sucks now "waaah" RP is no more, STFU! RP depends solely on the Group you game with not the book it comes from, in any edition "period".
If you have a deep look at AD&D for instance, you will notice that the staff who created the game didn't even know that there were people Role PLaying like actors more than gamers using combat rules when the game was realesed.
D&D never deeply cared about real Role Playing. Neither did 3th edition, nor 4th.
It's been always up to gamers do that job. Old school players know how to do that, I don't need a book to teach me how to rp.
I am glad that they balanced the classes out a bit, for sake of freedom you can take since that point. Like in AD&D and D&D 3.5 Wizard was so overpowered that for many of things he had to pay with his xp and shitload of gold. Like death of a familiar - you loose like 2k xp and can't summon him for year and one day... creating a wand or potion costs you ass-load of xp hence there was no point in doing alchemy or any real magic crafting. 4th ed lets you to explore bit more the areas left obscure
YuriPRIMEpoland 4 days ago in playlist D&D
jon stewart?
TheHuntress144 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I just played D&D 3.5 using World of Orfel setting ......... A W E S O M E
arajuiojuo 1 week ago
My main problem with 4e is that characters can, quite literally, become amazingly godly. I really like playing 4e at lower levels, but 3.5 is awesome any time. I really wish a single goblin could hit me in 4e... Anything with the D20 system is pretty awesome though.
Paragon468 2 weeks ago
FUCK YO CRITICAL!
JacX1 1 month ago
Bipeedal? Come on Spoony.
Gabrial13Cain 1 month ago
DOVAKIN!!!
DjFobse95 1 month ago
Did he just say that the Warlord is the 'fluffer'??
WhyMeMoFo 1 month ago
"Well, I know someone with a ranger that at first level can do up to 65 points of damage..." Yeah, you lost me right there. This is just a video game that I have to do all the math with as well....
WhyMeMoFo 1 month ago
4th Edition is so shitty. Check out lilith-ezine com/articles/entertainment/Boycotting-4th-Edition-DnD html
suzannemacnevin 2 months ago
I played a D&D encounters session for the first time a couple of weeks ago. It was a lot of fun. If you can find a store near you that hosts these games, I recommend trying it out. At least two of the players that night had never played 4th edition before (they had played earlier editions, though).
cavalier973 2 months ago
but min-maxing HAS disadvantages, lots of charisma and strength(or constitution) for the paladin is nowhere NEAR as useful as a high wisdom as high wisdom = ability to quickly heal anyone AND take a hit, while min-maxers will focus too much on the constitution as they want to take a lot of hits.
doombybbr 4 months ago
notes: breath weapon should have you choose what element and stat to use WHEN YOU USE IT (as i highly doubt that there are many types of dragonborn, they apparently came from the original dragon god so they would have power over all 5 of those elements)
doombybbr 4 months ago
Guys check 4:40 - 5:01. Probs a draft but still some freaky shit at midnight.
TheSuperhalofreak 5 months ago
1st edition AD&D, period. Long live Gygax and Arneson!
unowhatireallysaid 5 months ago 2
@unowhatireallysaid CHEERS! 1st Edition then, 1st Edition now, 1st Edition forever!
WhyMeMoFo 1 month ago
If you have the time and patience, this commentary on a series of game sessions really gives the flavor of how 4E plays:
ht tp://w w w.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/242305-running-player-commentary-pcats-d-d-4th-edition-campaign-heroic-tier-finished.html
cavalier973 6 months ago
Look up and listen to the Penny Arcade D&D podcasts; if it sounds like they're having fun, then you might try 4th edition.
cavalier973 6 months ago
@cavalier973 I listen to their pod casts, and it's 90% role playing, 10% 4E. It's fun b/c those guys are fun. Not saying someone won't like it, but that's an unfair example.
nstiles42 2 months ago
@nstiles42 One could also go to enworld dot com and look for Piratecat's 4e game thread (it should be under the 4th edition section). It's pretty epic.
cavalier973 2 months ago
Im thinking about getting into this, but I must ask is it a worthwhile investment of time and all that stuff?
please people respond to this comment. :)
KoolJoshBoy 6 months ago
@KoolJoshBoy
If you have friends you can play with and you enjoy the setting and sitting around joking while playing a game and possibly drinking, then yes, it is :)
charlesmcguffy 5 months ago
4th edition is a piece of shit. The character classes are indeed very similar in flavor and in the nature of their abilities. WOTC was so obsessed with balance that they decided that making the classes almost indistinguishable is a GOOD thing. WOTC was just waiting, greedily rubbing their hands together and waiting, for the day Gygax died so they could butcher D&D and turn it into World of Warcraft.
KhagarBalugrak 6 months ago
The thing that will never appeal to me is how front-loaded 4e is. The concept of tradeoffs and giving characters areas they do poorly in is right out the window. In previous editions there were characters who weren't good at certain things. In 4e there are only characters who are "less awesome"...or, really, not even any less awesome. Everyone is good or great at anything. That, and there is not any real resource management anymore. Most things anyone can do whenever.
KefkeWren 6 months ago
I heard that 4e gets rid of hybrid/prestige classes, is this true?
foolhou2e 7 months ago
dude... i play d and d too.... but i still wash my hair, you should try it
iamthelpmaster607 7 months ago
i COMPLETELY agree with you on rolling stats. sure..it might fuck you're powerplaying, but that just makes all your choices more important when playing.
thinkppl 7 months ago
I actually liked the dragon born, there intimidate could get crazy high XD. I remember getting a 20 while trying to intimidate a mechanical snake.. and it worked.
6thhokagephil 7 months ago
I died inside. This isnt D&D... sorry, but D&D died with 4th edition.
Dawnlight1 7 months ago
This guy is basicly talking about 3.5.............
skyguy351 7 months ago
I just started playing so i really dont get why people are upset by 4th edition
knightofbruma 8 months ago
i've played 4th ed with my friends and 1 of them just can't play the game, he always complains when he misses with his daily power and says "this is why i hate this edition, when i miss with a daily power...I CAN'T USE IT AGAIN till the next day" and i keep telling him, every time "you'd abuse the daily power if it was an at will power", he just complains about everything if it doesn't go his way at times in campaigns
Crousar 8 months ago
@Crousar maybe make a home rule such as if you miss with a daily pwer it is not used unless the roll is a nat 1
pandaviewer1997 7 months ago
If you follow what the builder tells you, you'll get a boring and not very good character. And regarding having something special, it's very easy to make character special, due to customization. I have a defender built on grabbing 2 characters at once. He was so effective, i never got to grab a second creature, as all the strikers got to do their work, while having a different feel from a normal defender. I have a defender which regenerates from critting all the time.
OlderSnake 8 months ago
poo
gigawarman12 8 months ago in playlist ANGRY PEOPLE 2
Hey morons: 4th edition DOES provide rules for rolling your stats. If you want to have one player who has two 18s and a 17, while another player has no stats above 12 because he/she rolled poorly, the book will accommodate you.
dark7element 8 months ago
The 4ed is good for somethngs but they killed many terms, races and other specialities... for example: What Happened with Aasimar, dwarven/elven/gnome/halfing races? what happened with the Prestige Class Concept? Why did the mutliclass and hybrid class changed the ideas about them? What happened with Crafting and professions? Yes, I'm a rookie/amateur but I saw and read some books and i've some 3.5 and 4ed to compare and have my personal view. 4ed good in many things, 3.5 is a bit better ;)
paulnatcia 10 months ago 13
@paulnatcia I'm sure they sell a book that tells you why they did this and that.
mikuel25 4 months ago
@paulnatcia I always thought it'd be cool if racial special abilities depended on your class.
Like, ie., if your a halfling rogue your race ability is that you're better at picking locks. Or if you're a halfling barbarian you have the 'fuck yo' critical' ability.
Uaxis 1 week ago
My problem with 4E is that it exists
beaviskhan 10 months ago
the problem I have with 4th edition is that the focus is too much on combats strategy. Also, I hate flipping cards when I play, It takes the imagination side off and takes me off the game. I really feel like I'm playing a board game. I play a ranger, and they have taken away all that was related to roleplay, the bind the ranger had with nature, etc. Rangers have become just a constantly moving killing machine...which gets boring to play eventually.
stinger67 10 months ago
you're like the white version of this guy that lives with me...
Mistman12 11 months ago
Explanation. PROBLEMS direct the players towards a goal. Enter dungeon, slaughter everything, kill boss. Get optimal skills and gear. The ribble rabble regarding why you're there is pretty much irrelevant, because being in the dungeon grinding IS the actual game, not the awkward purpose why the character is always in a dungeon.
CHOICES let the players choose their goal and the means to get there. You don't have ANY choices in D&D. Hence, it's a HORRIBLE RPG. I don't even consider it an RPG.
ubbecykelkedja 11 months ago
@ubbecykelkedja
Also, in response to you calling it a HORRIBLE RPG; it is actually the most famous and well-known RPG ever made.
Seriously, look up Dungeons and Dragons, as well as RPG, on wikipedia.
Here's the definition of an RPG: "A role-playing game (RPG) is a broad family of games in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting."
JMDub89 11 months ago
@ubbecykelkedja
D&D is what is called a "pen-and-paper" RPG, which basically was the foundation for ALL roleplaying games: "This is the format in which role-playing games were first popularized. The first commercially available RPG, Dungeons & Dragons (D&D), was inspired by fantasy literature and the wargaming hobby and was published in 1974...
JMDub89 11 months ago
@ubbecykelkedja
The popularity of D&D led to the birth of the pen-and-paper role-playing game industry, which publishes games with a wide variety of themes, rules, and styles of play.
This format is often referred to simply as a role-playing game. To distinguish this form of RPG from other formats, the retronyms pen and paper role-playing game or tabletop role-playing game are sometimes used, though neither pen and paper nor a table are strictly necessary."
JMDub89 11 months ago
@ubbecykelkedja
There is more than one type of RPG. Some of them fall under your definition, with lots of choices, ect. That is called a "storytelling game". Others, like D&D, focus more on game mechanics and combat.
JMDub89 11 months ago
@JMDub89 But it used to not be like that ie.: 3.5.
And that was a good thing, in my opinion.
Frereasteph 11 months ago
@Frereasteph
That's fine. All I was saying is that D&D is indeed a roleplaying game.
JMDub89 11 months ago
@ubbecykelkedja "You don't have ANY choices in D&D" You shouldn't really comment on a game you've obviously never played.
DonutDazzler 10 months ago
I've played a little 2nd edition AD&D as well as some 3.0 and 3.5 edition, but I hadn't tried 4th edition because of what one of my friends had said about it. I was a bit apprehensive about trying 4th, but after hearing some reviews I don't think I want to. I think I'll stick with 3.5 edition (which I liked) and perhaps Pathfinder (which I have yet to try)...Thank you for the informative review.
Sirthipal 1 year ago
@Sirthipal Pathfinder plays pretty much the same as 3.5, but they fixed some things, like grappling. Much less confusing now.
guidojacobs2002 1 year ago
Nice review btw. :)
Think it highlighted nicely the main aspects of 4th edition. (And why I shouldn't be playing it). :D
Snaus 1 year ago
Also, 4th edition seems like another move away from an actual roleplaying game. I didn't much like 3(.5)rd edition, but I think this one is even worse. Like the biggest aspect, the balance. Admittedly balance in skills, combat and levelling between classes wasn't perfect in 2nd, but the balance was perfect in roleplaying. Everyone in an adventurers group can participate, either solving puzzles with high Intelligence or guarding the rear as a cowardly thief. No matter what the level difference is
Snaus 1 year ago
@Snaus I see Dungeons & Dragons strictly as a tabletop strategy game. People who pretend it's a roleplaying game are fooling themselves big time. And if people actually want to roleplay, D&D probably has the most ridiculous world lore and rules to support non-combat interaction with that I've ever seen.
I'm not saying grinding monsters with friends can't be fun, but this would be the last game I would play if I wanted to play an actual role playing game.
ubbecykelkedja 1 year ago
@ubbecykelkedja Exactly. Most people who hate 4e are on that side of things. I've always cared more about the roleplaying side (basically a geekified Middle Earth), and the rules have always been a hinderance. 1e is almost unplayably arbitrary, 2e is unbalanced, 3e is too complicated, 4e is so balanced it's flavorless. I could more easily run a good "D&D" game using White Wolf rules, than I could with 4e rules.
7j8i9m 11 months ago
@7j8i9m And I mean old White Wolf, with a slightly custom sheet, because the old White Wolf rules allow room for flavor. 4e doesn't. Old White Wolf rules still suck, but they leave a boatload of room for good roleplaying.
7j8i9m 11 months ago
@ubbecykelkedja
Nobody's pretending or fooling themselves; Dungeons & Dragons IS a roleplaying game (specifically a "pen-and-paper" RPG). I really don't know how you can say it's not; if you look up the definition of an RPG, D&D falls right in there. If its not your thing, that's perfectly fine, but saying its not a roleplaying game is just plain incorrect.
JMDub89 11 months ago
@JMDub89 Please. Rail shooters like D&D is an RPG only by name. There isn't one single RPG worth the name that has 95% of its contents regarding combat. The awkward "role playing" scenarios in between the cave grinding, in an inconsistent and - even by fantasy standards - unbelievable world, doesn't change much.
An RPG leaves you with actual choices and dilemmas. All D&D gives you, is mathematical calculations and problems. Huge difference. An RPG is supported by the rules. D&D IS the rules.
ubbecykelkedja 11 months ago
@ubbecykelkedja
Dude, you create a character (with stats, abilities, a history, ect) and act out adventures. That is an RPG. I agree there is a lot of combat and rules, but that doesn't mean anything; an RPG is an RPG (there are many different kinds). Again, if you look up the definiton of an RPG, D&D qualifies. Just because you don't consider it one doesn't mean it isn't...
JMDub89 11 months ago
Minions?! What the heck is that all about? Goblins are people too. They live in a society and have roles and jobs and a family to feed. If my party enters a goblin lair, they enter someone's home. And they 'randomly' run into groups of goblins, who may be weak, but who will use goblin tactics. (Flee, regroup, roll Indiana Jones type boulder at heroes).
Next thing is that you won't see no more debates between the CG Thief and the LG Paladin about keeping the goblin hostage alive!?
Snaus 1 year ago
@Snaus Then the CG Thief and the LG Paladin turn around to see the CN gnome wizard with the (now multicolored with clown shoes and "I suck" tattooed on it's face) goblin. I love cantrips.
guidojacobs2002 1 year ago
@Snaus Minions aren't just restricted to monster races, you know. Every race is equal in its ability to churn out nameless, faceless goons to mow down. (It does, however, make it increasingly unlikely that those goblins live long enough to become prisoners in the first place. Take that for what you will.
thehorror2 1 year ago
3.5 is still my standard for the very reason of customization. I understand a lot of what was said, and it's all true. The sameness though is what absolutely kills 4th edition for me. 3.5 was fairly balanced. Yes, a wizard is certainly able to dish out more immediate death at high levels then a "normal" fighter. BUT the wizard needs to stay a pure arcanist, the fighter has the option of reaching those levels in so many more ways. Multi-classing is the shine for me.
ZeroBrutus 1 year ago
BUT IT DOESN"T HAVE TO BE BALANCED TO DEATH!!!!
sandorsbox 1 year ago
I've read some of the posts here and have come to the conclusion that you are all right, and wrong equally. If D&D was a board or a card game (exclusively) then you would be bound by the rules. Roleplaying is just that, its a game that demands you take creative license or you failed to understand it.
D&D is a guide all around; 2nd, 3rd, 3.5, 4th are all part of the whole. Use them to discover your own creativity.
impactorfactor 1 year ago
I've never played 4th edition. I heard they use cards, how are these cards used in an RPG???
impactorfactor 1 year ago
@impactorfactor Perhaps you've already figured it out, but the cards are not mandatory at all in the game, nor do they have any impact on gameplay. They are just a way to organize your powers into small quick reference blocks, providing a standard notation for powers you can print and refer to during play.
landovers 1 year ago
@impactorfactor They are reference tools to remember abilities and powers. They are not necessary to play D&D 4th edition.
Arekkusu5 1 year ago
You're a tool.
4th edition is for non-gamers that were always jealous of the nerds that had there cryptic, epic world of imagination.
Pathfinder, please.
vivalexjones 1 year ago
meh, 3.5 is still best.
bud389 1 year ago
call of duty 4 HARDCORE MODE SUCKS
tazzramizz 1 year ago
I'd have to disagree with spooney on this one, nothing sucks more than being the guy with all 10's in his stats having to be in the same party with the kid who rolls 3 18's, 16, 14, and a 8....it's kinda like pissing in the wind, because the main problem with previous editions of D&D is everything has to be based around the most powerful player, so in that instance, 4e is more of a team game than one for 1 superstar and the rest filler.
LordSathar 1 year ago
@LordSathar good point
TriggerHappyD 1 year ago
My good ol' D&D is gone... sad.
Ryokushindo 1 year ago
The problem with D&D4 is not that it's a bad game, but that it's becoming LESS of a rpg and MORE of a miniature wargame - kind of like going back to Chainmail of the early 70s.
Basically, what I hate about this new version is:
1 - Everyone is a powerhouse at L1
2 - Limited customization
3 - ROLLplaying bias (not "role")
4 - Pointless standard campaign setting
5 - Computer gaming mechanics
6 - Retarded DM "Pro" tips (I pity any newcomer to D&D)
And more, but I ran out of space here.
Eshlar 1 year ago
"fuck yo critical" lol
homebrew has always been much better than core rules in my opinion....once you hit 20 in d&d, you were pretty much godlike anyway, even after they added the epic levels. I did away with levels and did point system based on what you did in a session (awarding a point in each attribute to the person who used it the most, among 4-6 players, 2 of each for 6-10). Along with other changes with spells
sabriath 1 year ago
Lets put it this way, Everyone would love 4th edition if it didn't have the dnd name. 4th edition is really a great game, you need to get past the new and just enjoy it like its a new game.
synjakbeta 1 year ago
Should a high level fighter really be balanced with a high level wizard? As far as I'm concerned, outclassing a fighter is my reward for the pain ans squishyness of being a low level necromancer.
I came in with 3.5 (and I've played 2 via baldur's gate) that's the game that made me like dnd, the game where I could make a unique character every time with multiclassing and prc's. 4 feels like I should just pick up a videogame.
Craydon 1 year ago
@Craydon I disagree. As a GM, it becomes increasingly hard to balance a game so the fighter and wizard are still having fun, and if the players aren't having fun, why are they still playing? Of course, my GMing philosophy is that no player's fun should come at the expense of the any other's. That's what 4th Edition D&D does well. EVERYONE can do something extraordinary, at least some of the time. Every player can have fun doing whatever it is their class does best. (Except for leaders; poor guys
thehorror2 1 year ago 14
@thehorror2 Not being able to multiclass means I'm never having fun.
Craydon 1 year ago
@Craydon May I ask why? Not flaming or anything, I'd just like to know what makes it so critical to your enjoyment.
thehorror2 1 year ago
@thehorror2 Sure, one of the things that attracted me to this type of gaming is the flexibility to be who I want. Building a character was like a game within the game and it was something that videogames didn't do much if ever. And I really enjoyed it, converting character concepts into classes for characters just for fun.
Craydon 1 year ago
@Craydon You know what system(s) you might like? D20 Modern (and its myriad variations) and Star Wars SAGA Edition. Both rely on a seemingly pitiful number of classes to represent the staggering variety of characters in their universes. But they make each class heavily specialized, but customizable, and took out the multiclassing penalty, so you can mix and match at your leisure. Perfect hybrid between point buy systems and class based.
thehorror2 1 year ago
@thehorror2 I've moved on to just producing more art instead of gaming so much. With any luck some poor bastard will have to design a system to match my stuff.
Craydon 1 year ago
@thehorror2 Any EXPERIENCED DM can make 3.5 games balanced, even with all the cheese in the game. 4th Edition is pure shit.
electronicoffee 8 months ago
I know you're saying Balanced, but i keep on hearing the word Boring. I kind of want to do my own thing & 4E just doesn't have the flexibility to tell the stories i want to tell.
matthewlane 1 year ago
i supose no worlds like ravenloft dragonlance or even forget realms right >
gloup81 1 year ago
I love 3.5 more I mean I have a sick support character... 6 paladin/14 cleric is the final goal but I'm as of right now 6 paladin/1 cleric but I got all the stability of a tank and i can heal a but load and still deal damage to all types of stuff i also have leadership feat so i have like 3 squires and they fight with me in the party i have a barbarian, ranger, sorc, and a customized bard...
Silvershot6986 1 year ago
@Silvershot6986 Firstly, i love the cleric and a tolerate paladins far better than others but put them together and you will no doubt have the most epic holy douchebag in the history of D&D
TCOVproductions 1 year ago
@TCOVproductions
yea so here's how it goes lol paladin to lvl 6 with all that stuff and i have 108 hp at lvl 7 and the rest of the levels with be of cleric lol Good and Protection domain Deity is Moridan im a dwarf lol immune to poison and Disease and im such a douche lol im like be good or Die to my party lol and they get pissed cause they cant steal around me or murder people cause i try and give the enemies we take captive a second chance if they dont seem to evil lol
Silvershot6986 1 year ago
i wish i had a dif dnd pack. i only have the beginers game i got for 10 bucks on sale.
uberari 1 year ago
4th Edition = World of Warcraft in tabletop format. I'll pass.
As you covered, Spoony, there is no diversity. There's no difference between a ranger and another ranger, and another ranger. Hey! I have an idea now, let's all be Drizzt! Sounds fun! Not...
cobbil 1 year ago
Spoony!!!! where you in the game session where Angry joe tweaked out over someone stole his kill? friggin hilarious
Ehmounty 1 year ago
@Ehmounty yeah, he DM'd. Lordkat stole the kill.
politicalninja2044 1 year ago
What about a game system that allows you to develop your character as a person; no class defined and we must find/join/develop our own class, which also develops as we (the players) want it to in relation to our characters innate attributes?
impactorfactor 1 year ago
@impactorfactor i think that is calld GURPS. try the GURPS (Generic Universal Role Playing System) game. you get character points to develop your character however you want. also, the game is good for literally ANY genre.
TheOnlyAttrition 1 year ago
@TheOnlyAttrition you are correct sir, though gurps is a bit to general and if you want to have a really well developed genera with the system you've got to add a fair number of house rules.
TCOVproductions 1 year ago
@TCOVproductions Well, yes it is a very general game system, but what i meant is fairly obvious: you are gonna need house rules to make it fit your game's genre and setting. but otherwise it is a good system.
TheOnlyAttrition 1 year ago
@impactorfactor Several systems like that exist. Mutants & Masterminds was designed with superheroes in mind, but with a bit of tweaking the system can be used for almost anything. I've had less experience with other systems, but Savage Worlds, GURPS (in its untold myriads of variations) and to a lesser extent, the various editions of Shadowrun all do total character customization to a far greater extent than a race/class/level system ever could.
thehorror2 1 year ago
I love how I saw this video years ago, forgot all about it, started watching your videos again recently, and then I randomly see this video in your list and get a major sense of realization; "Holy crap, THAT'S where I saw this guy before."
ShadowDemonMuerto 1 year ago
I disagree with your statement that all characters are the same in 4th Edition. Yes there is optimization but with the variation of powers, feats and race while characters of the same class are similar they can play quite differently mechanically. There isn't as much variation as 3/3.5, but 3e took options to a horrible extreme, especially if you include 3rd party OGL shit. The book tells you how to optimize, but there is nothing saying that you must.
Jimalcoatl 1 year ago
I just got into DnD, so fourth edition seemed like a good idea.
xxPatheticEmoxx 1 year ago
God Forbid A Game Changes, People Play What Version You Want
MrMelonBread 1 year ago
dude ive been watching your vids for a while now on tgwtg, but now that i see your talk'n bout DnD, dude your freaking awesome!!!
slammarbyhammer 1 year ago
In 2nd Ed. Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, we could make a character sheet out half a piece of scrap paper. 3rd Ed. Was dumbed down but had amazing artwork which brought a lot more players to the game. 3.5 wasn't a needed update but it was more than less comparable with 3rd. 4th edition Wizards pissed on the last bit of TSR's vision and made a completely different game similar to an online RPG. 4th has is only similar to D&D by its name only.
Frizbeen 1 year ago
I'll just stick with Pathfinder.
Wombatzu 1 year ago
I am new to D&D but one thing i do know is that the most important and most interesting differences between characters (regardless of race or class) is the way you roll play and the personality that you build. I have seen 2 fighters in different groups that may have close stats and abilities but the way the players use those abilities is like night and day. My point is that there are alot more options and ways to customize than you are pointing out in your review.
skubbs90 1 year ago
Comment removed
skubbs90 1 year ago
Damn. I guess roleplaying isn't the point of the game. Who gives a damn if all clerics are all the same. What matters is how you play that cleric. In addition, he didn't mention the options as you get higher level. I had and issue with 3.0 and 3.5 because there was so much flexibility that you had to devote a whole bunch of time to min and max your PC just to keep up with all of the munchkins who were playing at the same table. Which is not what the game is about. Don't believe play 1.0.
athavulfthegoth 1 year ago
@athavulfthegoth
4e=video gameized DnD.
refuckulate420 1 year ago
Dragons are cooler and more different than the skinny humans, midgets, jokey humans, and normal humans!
Plus they have tails. Tails are awesome.
alasanof 1 year ago
@keithblabbermouth or AD&D
ZachariasClub 1 year ago
Great review man.
So they streamlined it, but possibly over simplified. Mmm.... Unique is what makes my players really get into their characters.
Jester486 1 year ago
@keithblabbermouth Not 3.5?
Abon666 1 year ago
I'll stick with 3.5
robblindsay 1 year ago
@robblindsay me to 4th sucks
lugnuts299 1 year ago
I thought the Dragon born were supposed to be very hidden and not known to many because so few exist.
BillyCauseyjr 1 year ago
I felt as if they dumbed 4.0 down way to much from 3.5
ixpj 1 year ago
What you (people who hate 4th ed.) aren't getting, is the fact that in most cases, you are comparing 3.5 and 4. This is an un-just comparison because of the fact that 3.5 had time to grow. You are chosing which is better with a new game mechanic and an old used one. That's like saying, ya I'll take the 20 year old over the 5 year old becuase he is ready now, thus the 5 year old SUCKS! Give it time, I enjoy both 3.5 edition, and the 4th edition of D&D, but I believe 4th will become the superior.
chickamoo 1 year ago
4 Sucks because 3.5 has AMAZING customization. 4 forces you to do what your class says.
DarthElg 1 year ago
i was a half dragin in 3rd edition, Dragonborn is basically the same thing
TinkToll 1 year ago
If you're fighting through an entire room full of minions you're doing it wrong.
Derekstarr 1 year ago
I hate 4 because it kills the creativity of 3.5. I loved the fact that you could make your character ANYTHING. Want to be a rogue/mage. You can do that. Be a Warrior/Palladin/Mage/Rogue? Wouldn't be very good, but you CAN do that. It's fun to be creative and see what you can come up with. It's also a challenge for the GM because they have to adjust.
4 also feels alot like WoW. There's a reason I stopped playing WoW. Everything was "balanced" which is boring.
audallas841 1 year ago
@audallas841 I disagree. 4 th edition lets you choose powers. In 3.5 you gain x power at y level.
MidnightSun009 1 year ago
@MidnightSun009 I hear you there, but still. 4 seems to linear for me. I don't like not being able to go the direction I want whenever I want.
audallas841 1 year ago
thanks man me and some friends are jumping strait in and this is a great help
TheConman199 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Your all nerds lol
wwardclan 1 year ago
@wwardclan we just have fun and dont sit on our xbox all day
beardeddragon21 1 year ago 14
I do like 4e, but 3.5 is cool too.
Do you like World of Darkness?
PaulieRomanov 1 year ago
@PaulieRomanov world of darkness is cool and I like 3.5 beter
TheDnDfreak 1 year ago
I basically prefer 3.5 because it's more complex than 4. I played 4 with some friends and I found that I was just ripping through everything with a level 4 fighter. All of my friends had level 14s that didn't do shit. I prefer 3.5 because everything was so well balanced that I would have been raped with a level 4 fighter
TheAmazingLiberalist 1 year ago
like i have said in my counter-review comments, i think that 1st and 2nd edition AD&D are the essence of what D&D was intended to be. when wizards bought out TSR (due to financial issues), i just knew it was going to be altered and I was dreading it. as i suspected, D&D now is shadow of its former self, taking out the,YOU MUST BE INTELLIGENT, AND BE A READER AND THINKER, and putting in the whole, AS LONG AS YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY MONOPOLY AND YOU ARE HALF RETARDED, you can play style in. shocker!
hanshideout 1 year ago
just stick with 2nd edition AD&D
JJHoover70 1 year ago
I kinda agree with the whole fighter or similar class slashing through the goblin deals. Most people that complain about it are looking at just a "class" and not realism. Of course the hero fighter type should be able to take out lots of creatures of the such vs just some small village brawler or town guard if not why give u quests and not just some guard or general in town the quest?
Balmoros 1 year ago
a finesse rouge and a Bash you over the fucking head rouge.
purpleking15 1 year ago
balance yes; but cheese, major cheese. Ad&d and 3rd give one a place to create unending- to evolve a "realistic" living growing game play... 4 is generic- as you say "to simplified" as I would say "dumbed down" and/or "boxed in" ~I'm still writing 3rd
willtrib 1 year ago
Sorry, I'm just done. We used to make fun of games like this. I'm going back to AD&D (aka OSRIC).
urknighterrant 1 year ago
My group and I decided after about three months of play that it just wasnt for us. We went back to 3.5 and eventualy Pathfinder.
4.0 isnt a bad game, it was just very different then what we liked as a group.
pISSUMTREE 1 year ago
"4th edition, a P&P RPG, is completely like an computer game MMO wow <3 3rd edition"
classic sign of an idiot.
Nakasi100 1 year ago
Character generation is fast? Maybe if you are making 1st level characters. Try to make a 15th level character, make it fast, and make it good and effective (ie, not choose powers at random). In 4th Ed, making a mid level character of any class takes about the same amount of time as making a mid level wizard in previous editions. Instead of pouring over the spells for hours, now you are reading and choosing from 25 class specific powers and feats. Fun. Super Fun. Give me more of that. Blah!
Phloid82 1 year ago
4th edition is a mmorpg
valrinnita 1 year ago
"finesse rogue and bash you over the fuckin' head rogue"
Awesome
MPWilly43 1 year ago
Spoony looks like the guy from Rammstein.
TurrianAgent 1 year ago
@TurrianAgent Till.
ZachIsGrasshopper 1 year ago
I'll keep to Pathfinder.
Gudamangipo 1 year ago
umm i think ill just stick with 1stand 2nd edition. 4th edition sounds like an mmo
warkwright 1 year ago
What'd you mean about being able to min/max in 4th? As far as I read the rules... yea... you might have a couple cool daily/encounter powers. But it looks like every character, after 8 rounds will be stuck doing 1d8+their primary attribute mod.... be they level 1 or 20... still 1d8+(stat). Of course once you're super epic at level 21-30... you get 2d8+stat!!1!!
Is that not the case?
dasgregorian 1 year ago
Actually, the psionic classes in the PHB 3 have an interesting idea where you have no encounters, but have at-wills and power points to fill them per encounter; an interesting and, yes, balanced concept. The problem? It came out 2 years later, so make of that what you will.
TheOtogi 1 year ago
Minions are made for wars... Gigantic encounters, You didn't read your MM at all or DM's guide under creating encounters.
KingCarrion 1 year ago
TO be fair, Gary Gygax may have started it all, but other people have made D&D what it is, people like Margaret Weis, Tracy Hickman, Douglas Niles, Monte Cook, Bill Slavisek, etc.
pspboy7 1 year ago
2nd edition was as good as it gets. WOTC are as bad as EA when it comes to raking in money. Even Gygax said they had bastardized and ruined D&D, and when he says it, you better believe it.
Jeet27 1 year ago
@Jeet27 Yeah, TSR was a pretty great company, especially when it was trying to utterly destroy gaming later on
TheOtogi 1 year ago
@TheOtogi At least it knew what D&D was all about, unlike wizards of the boast.
Jeet27 1 year ago
@Jeet27 An unfortunately big difference: Wizards treated it's staff, players and games well, and they actually liked gaming. I know WotC is still pretty much full stop for cash, but at least it wants while doing something it loves and giving people what they loved. Unless, of course, you thought Lorraine Williams was an improvement, then by all means, knock down Wizards of the...boast? Really?
TheOtogi 1 year ago
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TheOtogi 1 year ago
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TheOtogi 1 year ago
@TheOtogi Wotc beat them to it.
CondorDM 1 year ago
i have dungeons and dragons on the xbox and its pretty cool and i also played the online version of the game but ive never played the board game...anyone wanna tell me what its like?
guitarraplayer12 1 year ago
Nigga you be trollin.
slitor 1 year ago
so good. im hooked
Armstrongo 1 year ago
@guitarraplayer12 It is exceedingly complicated to explain, but I think it's probably the most rewarding hobby I've ever gotten into. Imagine D&D online, but you have total control over the story, you never run out of quests to complete, there's never any monthly fees, and as long as you've got a few friends around you never have to deal with pick-up-groups that don't know how to play their class. I recommend buying the new 4th Edition Red Box. It has the basic rules and a short quest.
thehorror2 1 year ago
Fourth Edition is utter shit. It makes Runescape look far better than 1st edition D&D.
KhagarBalugrak 1 year ago
I've actually had a great deal of fun with 3rd - 3.5 edition Dungeons & Dragons, and now that I'm DMing I'm switching to Pathfinder (mainly because it's hard / expensive to find a full set of 3.5 books), but I still agree completely with Spoony's assessment of D&D 4th so far.
Too cookie-cutter, not enough customization, too much like an MMORPG. You can have a lot of fun with it if you have a good DM, I know this from my own playing, but I'd never choose to run it.
Stromko 1 year ago
In my campagins the make up is 60% roleplay 40% encount and I use 4e. You don't actually have to have access to the internets and you can still play it the old school way. Perhaps your all geting confused by the minitures game.
thedexter102 1 year ago
@thedexter102
U r so right
lagarto3001 1 year ago
I Love those days where wizards wore hats and drow were drow,,, I have no need to venture beyond the 2nd Edition,,, it started in 3rd edition where "The Lowest Common Denominator" philosophy applies,,, classes are on varying learning curves for a reason,,, if they are all balanced,,, they start to look alike,,,
motelbill 1 year ago
Bottom line is 4th edition is a stupified video game version of dnd. If you like mini battles then you would probably enjoy the sytem, but if you enjoy more roleplaying then this isn't a game you will enjoy.
americanwarrior32 1 year ago
Agreed thoroughly.
Ltbird 1 year ago
AD&D 2nd edition was the last, decent version of D&D.
Now it's all Warhammer baby!
Stender84 1 year ago
Does anyone know what to do when you get this error message:
Value cannot be null. Parameter name: stream
zackfair73195 1 year ago
Show me a Ranger that can do 65 damage in one round at first level and I'll say your full of sh!t! Warlords do mad damage in combat, I think you are reading your PHB upside down or something....Atleast play the game a few times before you morons make stupid one sided reviews on 4th edition. Seriously! And all you kooks saying "waah" RP sucks now "waaah" RP is no more, STFU! RP depends solely on the Group you game with not the book it comes from, in any edition "period".
Underleaf76 1 year ago
Show me a Walrus that can speak English, and I'll tell it that it's full of sh!t... and capable of speaking English.
Nietzschianbarn 1 year ago
@Underleaf76
If you have a deep look at AD&D for instance, you will notice that the staff who created the game didn't even know that there were people Role PLaying like actors more than gamers using combat rules when the game was realesed.
D&D never deeply cared about real Role Playing. Neither did 3th edition, nor 4th.
It's been always up to gamers do that job. Old school players know how to do that, I don't need a book to teach me how to rp.
3th was plenty of rules I never used
4th FTW
lagarto3001 1 year ago
In short, 3.5e is better.
ChaoticSorceror 1 year ago