Lehrer News - Dragon Skin® Body Armor (Part 1 of 2)

[iluvmym4]

Can you say cover-up boy's & girls? It's going to be the same with Colt & their M4 rifles vs any H&K rifle!

[civmaster50]

To them, its just a game.

[evanatromitoszarsaz]

the guy that invented the interceptor body armor said without hesitation that dragon skin is better without a doubt lol. the army has the biggest budget but they are spending it on stupid things like new camo. they have went through so many different types of universal camos for example multicam. within the year they started it they want to abandon it. my point is that the army is like a school. people think the school is poor but they arent. they just spend their budget on stupid things

[DJKosmo85]

if it really is "0 failures" then that would mean we would have no dead troops

[fl00dsm0k3]

im not going to say about the army baning dragon skin they know more about war than i do and they might have body armor we dont know about

[gamerdude141]

If the special forces CIA Army Generals wear dragon skin wear this you can already tell this is better. The funny part about the test with intercepter and dragon skin was the colonel who did the test went to work with the makers of intercepter body armor after he retaired shortly after the test. Dragon skin FTW

[rawdenashitey]

some top generals, the CIA and special forces are using the dragon skin

[nitojo7]

The Dragon Skin Passed all test but its too expensive, so they give the cheap shit to our fighting soldier.

[HONORGUARD308]

the dragon skin guys did fulse marketing thats why the US army banned it cus it want proven at all

[TheCROOKSnJ]

@HONORGUARD308 First, learn to spell before you make claims like that. It makes your claims less believable when you can't even spell it right. And secondly, marketing issues or not, Dragon Skin has been proven more effective time and time again. Stop short-selling our troop and protect them to the fullest is my opinion.

[HONORGUARD308]

@TheCROOKSnJ 1) i failed english and droped out of school 2)im not short-selling US troops i have a mate in the US army and USMC 3) i was in the australian defence force (ADF) army cadet core when i was 13 and was in for 4 years and now am inlisted in the army so i am one of thos troops you are talking about however i may quit to go into the australian defence industry to make ARMOR so i do infact know alot about armor and if i cant spell that dont mean i know any less

[TheCROOKSnJ]

@HONORGUARD308 i never said that your grammar had anything to do with how much you know. I simply said that it makes it less believable when its misspelt and hard to read. And being in the forces yourself, you have to admit you would rather have Dragon Skin. As I said before, it is tested and win's time and time again. Cost is the only issue in not equipping our troops. But they spend $600billion on other defense "toy's" submarines, boats and aircraft carriers but not our troops?

[HONORGUARD308]

@TheCROOKSnJ but i wouldnt want dragon skin. dragon skin works great for the one that really do work lots dont. a good dragon skin vest would be great for a single task but for a war were the vest will get abused every day it wont last the time. both armors can stop projectiles but only 1 can last time in a war enviroment and thats the IOTV i would prefer the IOTV over dragon skin any day. the dragon skin would be better for SWAT they can replace it fast and easy and dont depend on it for months

[asbestoslessener]

@TheCROOKSnJ speaking of grammar, you should have added an apostrophe to "it's" since it's a contraction and not to "win's" since it is just plural and is not possessive. Maybe you should lay off other people's English since it really doesn't matter as long as you know what they're saying.

[TheCROOKSnJ]

@asbestoslessener like i said before, i never said that grammar has anything to do with knowledge. all i was trying to imply was it makes it less believable when its hard to understand. Period. And dragon skin is proven to take multiple rounds as current models can take one or two before plates need to be replace. Being in the armed forces how can you deny that?

[asbestoslessener]

@TheCROOKSnJ first off it depends on what plates you are talking about, ESAPI can take 5-6 AP M2 rounds before failing. Second it really doesn't matter since Pinnacle is bankrupt and is about to no longer be a company. Third why is there no video of the back face signature for Dragon Skin?

[TheCROOKSnJ]

@asbestoslessener I'm not going to pursue this any further after this. On futureweapons the TV show, they do a solid test against current issued vest and dragon skin, showing front and back impact results. Dragon Skin overwhelmingly surpassed the current models. US military officials still refuse to comment

[wilkoslavakia]

@TheCROOKSnJ takin multiple rounds wont count when the vest fails because the vests got to hot when it was shiped to the troops in shipping containers in summer. The problem with people like you is you dont think like a soldier you dont know that you could get covered in fuel working on a vehicle which will soften the glue holding the disks.

[TheCROOKSnJ]

@wilkoslavakia gasoline will soften the glue holding the plates together really? how many soldiers are shot every day? how many are covered in gasoline to the point that their vests will be so saturated that the glue will fail? ok whatever. i may not think like a marine but i think logically. if your seriously going to defend the vests our troops are wearing, than there is no point in having a discussion, your nailed mind has been made a long time ago

[wilkoslavakia]

@TheCROOKSnJ yep look into it thats one of the tests this vest failed on funny but the IOTV passed that long with the heat test. IOTV that works or Dragenskin that fails up 2 you but ill have the vest that works anyday

[Zyworski]

Is it your intent to impugn the integrity of the army? It astounds me to hear you suggest that our military would rig the system in favor of some favored vendor! The conservatives and their contrived indignity is laughable.

True scientific studies can be repeated, testing should be done in the public arena. The real problem is the revolving door between military and civilian contractors. There needs to be restrictions on post service employment to prevent conflict of interest.

[BattleshipAgincourt]

DS is better than Interceptor WHEN IT WORKS, but the liabilities of its complexity make it more prone to failure then Interceptor. For one mission, DS might do well enough; but for a six-year life span, DS won't endure daily abuse. The problem with independent tests was they don't try anything OUTSIDE of ballistic tests. DS won't be defeated by bullets, but by extreme heat and diesel fuel. It's unreliable, which is what the Army doesn't want.

I was intrigued by DS, but it was prone to failure.

[TheCrushpanzer]

I bet that the army took out the panels and tested it.

[hazelrocks23]

@wilkoslavakia even if the defects were fixed the armor would be still heavy (48lbs) but probably if they changed the material they were using in the armor it wud be lighter.

[wilkoslavakia]

true

[wilkoslavakia]

4 fucks sake the army tested dragon skin it failed now granted the test vests the army where given "seem" to be defective

thats why it dident pass but if thay cant give out vests with zero defects for a test how can you give them a contract for 500,000+ vests

fix the defects and i think it will be the best vest ever

[meltdown1232000]

@wilkoslavakia Do your due diligence...the Army tested level III Dragon Skin with threat level IV ammo. The Colonel that supervised the tests? Now a VP with the company that supplied the interceptor body armor tested against Dragon Skin.

[asbestoslessener]

@meltdown1232000 funny how pinnacle only complained about the failures being fraudulent after the army failed the system nearly two years later. Why didn't he complain earlier or why didn't he stop the testers? He had a number of vests present at that 2004 test, and after the first one failed he stopped the test (as opposed to saying hey those aren't the right rounds).

[meltdown1232000]

@asbestoslessener Where have you been? This HAS been going on, and been complained about since BEFORE 2004.

The Army banned DS PRIOR to even testing it, and has refused a request from Congress to test DS one on one against Interceptor.

The Army banned their own EXPERT from the test which ended up banning EDS, and then fired him. The Army officer in charge of the test, now a VP with the firm.

The DEVELOPER of Interceptor says DS is 3 to 4 generations more ADVANCED than Interceptor.

[asbestoslessener]

@meltdown1232000 the ban did not exist before the 2004 test the ban was issued in 2006 for the army and 2007 for the marines. As for the DS expert being fired, to be fired as a government employee you have to do a lot more than protest a decision so there's probably a lot more to his firing than he's willing to admit or let public, plus I highly doubt he's the first disgruntled gov employee to suddenly decide to speak out because he was let go.

[meltdown1232000]

@asbestoslessener does not address WHY he, as the Army expert was banned from the test. Does not address that the Colonel that admin'd the test, left the Army soon after, and was made a VP with the company that supplied the Interceptor unit tested. According to docs presented here and in DS searches, the Armu banned DS 2 months prior to the testing. A case of oops, releasing the memo too soon? Who knows? Every test i've seen between DS and Inter, DS wins hands down.

[asbestoslessener]

@meltdown1232000 i will agree that there was an extremely unprofessional conflict of interest regarding the army colonel, but then again the colonel you championed earlier as the developer of interceptor was in the same situation, left the marines became ceo of point blank and a couple years later he had a multimillion dollar military contract for an armor he is claimed to have invented during his term in the marines. Either way I agree with you on that colonel.

[asbestoslessener]

@meltdown1232000 however the armor was banned two months before the primary test for army certification, why is that so upsetting, would you want people using equipment that hasn't been tested to meet your groups standards? Plus as I already said, in the independent show test in 2004 DS failed, and if that was fraudulent why did Murray Neal wait sooo long to say anything, much less stop and correct the test right there!

[meltdown1232000]

@asbestoslessener The level III DS vest even stopped 55% of all level IV bullets fired at it in the rigged Army test. How about a head to head test...an existing DS vest against abn existing Interceptor vest. Both vests taken from standing inventory, and supervised by a congrssional panel, which wants this test done anyway. Should end the story right there.

[asbestoslessener]

@meltdown1232000 and "The DEVELOPER of Interceptor says DS is 3 to 4 generations more ADVANCED than Interceptor." funny the people in military research of Interceptor since the 90's don't recognize this person from any of their development...just like how Murray Neal claims to have invented DS when clearly he was told how to make scalar armor by Allan Bain who is mentioned on earlier patents dating to the early 90's

[wilkoslavakia]

@meltdown1232000 your point being? and think twice be4 you slander the good name of a soldier . A man who has fort for the freedom for you to talk here in english.

[BestTits]

that guys the product manager he cant even speak

[GUERRILLA762]

the army doesnt care about is troops fuck them they r all about money nuthin else

[takimakikaki]

That's true around 30% of the homeless people are ex veterans in the US.

[CBAsystems]

Oh yeah MY stuff easily defeats Level IV and so easy to make hell makes Ceradyne look like yesterday's baggage.

[CBAsystems]

Well I am not DS and this is an INTERNATIONAL market --I will try many more times but then time to travel US Military ....PEO give me a call or I am taking long flights .

[bsdanielm]

I'm from New Zealand / I'm not American and I just wanted to give an opinion looking (at this from the outside).......

Its actually saddening to know that the vast majority of the American Military has not taken this body armour with open arms.

I have no doubt that the US can still fight effectively with its existing armour but I feel that Dragon Skin would certainly add to the endurance levels of typical infantry.

[TheArtisticPro]

Just to explain to anyone who does not know, the Interceptor is being phased out. Marines have already been issued the new "Modular Tactical Vest (MTV)." It was designed to address the shortcomings of the Interceptor system. Some factors, such as comfort and mobility, are still being worked on. The Navy has also begun ordering the new vests, and the Army is likely to follow suit.

The MTV provides much better protection than the Interceptor, and weighs only three pounds more.

[anteracmacash]

the "Modular Tactical Vest" is just an improved version of the interceptor and it works on the same principle...4 heavy plates that are not enough to cover the same area as the dragon skin could cover...basicly same shit different package...

[shitpickle1128]

well no i wouldnt say the same but probably more comfort and flexibility but probably (i say probably becuase i dont know anything about it) still not as good as dragon skin

[tburns7v]

the MTV sucks.... nobody likes it (MARINES). And by the way.... no coverage.... rifle rounds pass right through kevlar.... so anywhere plates dont cover... yup.... a bloody hole.... wearing bricks in your vest is dumb... no mobility... high profile (distance is protrudes from body)... get in a tiny hmmwv seat with full gear.... then get out FAST when its time to fight... its stupid.

[jesseeros]

the MTV still isn't as good as dragonskin that is why you are getting booed not because that wasn't an intelligent response. The most recent I have heard on this fight is that the Marines used their own money to buy the Dragonskin armor and then it got banned SO obviously it passed the testing and then something..money.. got in the way.

[TerroristLarryPhillp]

SOV is the same but just the price i rather have a LEVEL IV+ PLATE that could stop 30 AP rounds 60 FMJ and 90 NATO ball rounds

dragon skin of coruse can stop over 100 ARMOUR PERCING rounds but if i went too war i would wear SOV end of questions'

[TheArtisticPro]

I don't know where you got your information, but Dragon Skin is not capable of stopping anywhere near 100 AP rounds.

[settingfree]

Good reporting, people on the internet and some news stories get to hear the truth. Perhaps that's why they are moving to bring out internet 2 so that the information is more heavily censored

[MichaelWithstand]

War is draining the economy.

So war is an economy of itself.

People actually make money out from war.

I think dragon skin body armor is outstanding from the clips I have seen.

By banning the dragon skin body armor means that there are ONLY 2 possibilities:

1. Dragon skin body armor is a failure just as what the army claims it is

2. Dragon skin armor beats the crap of the interceptor body armor. It's a much superior body armor that if the two of them are compared you would throw the other.

[OathBoundReckoner]

SOV Dragon skin body armor has been tested at temperatures from 180F to -60F (I'd say those are pretty extreme temperatures) with no penetrations. The adhesive does not give way in said teperatures.

As for the statement about angled shots, Dragon Skin was tested by the NIJ at angles of 0, 30, 45, and 55 degrees obliquity. The shots were also placed where the discs overlap. No failures.

Don't take my word for it, though. Do some reasearch, contact the manufacturer.

[ken060693]

send me a link for these tests

[quiteobserver]

is DragonSkin still banned in the US army??

[brainplay]

Its banned from the entire US military. Don't think any US gov. procurement division will touch it either. They still haven't worked out the de-lamination issues. Short service life due to wear and tear is still a major problem.

[xStealth]

For those who don't know, Bullet Stopping is not the issue/problem with Dragon Skin, it's Bar-None, the best bullet stopping Vest on the planet right now.

The problem is, at Extreme Cold and Extreme Hot Temperatures, the Linking between the Titanium/Ceramic Composite discs break, so all that scale design comes apart and the vest in unusable, that's the problem.

[2863060]

y dont just use real human to wear the armour n see whoo dies 1st or 1st blood

[tytzer93]

yea.... How about you do it.......

[Forzanuccii]

Mark Brown is full of shit!

[Dekapitated]

"Never forget that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder."

-Unknown

Thank you Call of Duty 4..

[iRideDarkstar]

shut the fuck up dude

[BHT195]

It may be a game but its a valid point. Everything in America is privately run, even body armour and weapons manufacture, and since the government want to spend as little as possile they will take whatever contractor will cost the least and in turn make the lowest quality goods.

[Dkslong]

yea its true i think its bs

[DoradoGate]

Dragon Skin or Interceptor?

A real man needs no armor. John J. Rambo don't need such armors. He goes to war shirtless.

[cornholio5256]

ITS NOT A "GAME" YOU FUCKING PRICK!

[rockyman500]

FUCK MARK BROWN!!

[mclovin600]

fuck him dull rusted razor blades

[m4ian]

2 billion $ on Dragon Skin to save life's., and they government spend 1/2 a trillion on a SHIPS! the military-industrial complex is putting money first and the brave men and women out there fighting and dyeing in the world. last.

[Riyun72]

Anything new about that?

[jkantor267]

No - the problem is they are made by the most expensive manufacturer - but they don't work as well as cheaper ones.

[markbart7]

dude, in tests, you could put up dragon skin against dozens of 30 calibur rounds, and around 100 rounds of 9mm and still work extremely well. Try to see interceptor do that.

[gullonline]

lying military, i saw the other vid of around 40 shots at dragon skin and nothing

[jdv182]

"your weapons were made by the cheapest manufacturer"  unkonw soildier

[TheGreenSmoke]

President Eisenhower warned us about this years ago.

[NJRocks281]

o so president Eisenhower's warnings should mean that we shouldn't spend top dollars on our men and women in uniform?? If thats what Eisenhower really wanted, which I doubt, but if it is then fuck Eisenhower up the ass

[TheGreenSmoke]

Eisenhower stated the military-industrial complex will prevent our troops from having the best stuff...

[diablogamer45]

lolz Nj is pwnt

[SirRondell]

I'd love to challenge Norwood, Gingrey, Brown, and all the other "interceptor" assholes on a head to head showdown. They wear their precious "interceptor" dinner plates and i'd wear dragon skin. they shoot me twice for every shot they take from me. Any takers?

[SirRondell]

Nevin Rupert, the army expert in body armor, was excluded by the army during the "unbiased" testing of Dragon Skin. and the one supervising the "unbiased" test of Dragon Skin is an asshole named Norwood who, upon retirement from the army, went directly to the company that makes "Interceptor" and became VP. And the army INSISTS that there is NO conflict of interests in that.

[WildPhisherMann]

This is bullshit