Obama :Health Care Bill "Not Perfect", Significant Work ...

[mdryden02]

How many of us need decent dental ins? Is this being addressed?

[bigtex501]

DEMOCRAT'S SPENDING SPREE...

CONTINUES!

LATEST SENATE HEALTH CARE BILL.. The Budget Committee has determined that the Finance Committee Bill, as introduced, will cost....

$1.8 trillion over 10 years

The HELP Committee bill will cost $2.2 trillion over 10 years!

House bill will cost $2.4 trillion over 10 years.

Average cost of these bills, when fully implemented, is more than $2 trillion.

[footballman134]

democrat spending spree?!? clinton had a surplus...bush turned that into a trillion dollar deficit...which party has a spending spree?

[bovice94]

well said sir!

[Jclewell3d]

@footballman134 clinton caused the housing bubble

[bigtex501]

REASONS TO REJECT..

PUBLIC OPTION!

Google (copy & paste) sentences..

health care reform bill will begin in 2016 at the earliest

Democrats MANDATE health care insurance

CBO.. requirement for residents to obtain health insurance or pay additional taxes

obama cuts BILLIONS from Medicare

The goal is to reduce costs and "guide" your doctors decisions (H.R. 1 EH pages 442, 446)

obama legalize illegals to get them health care

Democrats declare that a Value Added Tax should be added

[bigtex501]

Wall Street Journal

Nancy Pelosi admits that Democrats may have to **impose** a HUGE NEW TAX (VAT or NATIONAL SALES TAX) to fund their spending ambitions!

With a $9 trillion 10-year budget deficit, $4 trillion in spending in 2010 alone, & a $1 trillion (minimum) health-care entitlement, Pelosi & Dems are suggesting ADDING a Value Added Tax on TOP of existing TAXES that applies to every level of production or service, & is largely **hidden** from those who ultimately pay it...namely, CONSUMERS!

[bigtex501]

CBS NEWS

BROKEN PROMISES BY OBAMA

"The Government to negotiate drug prices"

obama.."We'll negotiate with the drug companies for the cheapest available price on drugs"

LA Times

"Tauzin (Chief Pharmaceutical Lobbyist) secured an agreement with OBAMA!

"In return for pledging $80 billion in cost savings over 10 years, the OBAMA administration has promised to BACK OFF FROM PRICE-SETTING on the Medicare Part D drug program as well as from importing cheaper drugs from Canada or Europe!"

[Mangina9000]

bigtex501

BLAH BLAH BLAH

I COME FROM A WELFARE STATE AND DON'T KNOW IT

I AM AN IDIOT

I LIKE THE RADIO

[wolfgangfaust]

"sunlight is the best disinfectant" is what barry promised when he was bullshitting use before he was selected. isn't it appropriate that the "negotiations" are being conducted behind closed doors in the basement of the capitol building, where no sunlight enters.

therefore, he is a liar, and this administration STINKS!

[Smartassawhip]

Bigtex501 said the following and then deleted his comment I thought it deserved a response so I am re-posting it.

SmartAss,

Hey, back biting again! LOL And you still can't handle the debates.... don't get in them!

And..... who has been the one to use profanity several times... yeppers, you guessed it... YOU! LOL

Would you like me to copy and paste a few of your comments from before?

[bigtex501]

SmartAss,

Sorry, I thought you were doing the usual as you had done so many times!

MY BAD!

But it IS true that you have used profanity so many times.. so be carefull of accusing others of doing what YOU commonly do!

[Smartassawhip]

I didn't accuse the guy of using profanity I said his name calling lacked creativity and it did. I am not ashamed of anything I do. Do I get down in the gutter once in a while sure I do... but I am not the one who instigates such things... It all depends on my mood as to how I react to others trying to take my inventory. YOU also have spent your fair share of time in the gutter so perhaps you should take your own advice.

[bigtex501]

SmartAss,

And again.. Have A Nice Day!

[Smartassawhip]

Where and when have I claimed that I have never used profanity? Post anything you want to but do me a favor and post the comment I was responding to as well because I never attack anyone who doesn't attack me first. The person I was responding to on this video was clearly not interested in debating any issues and you are obviously just looking for a fight. I am done with you and all of your drama so you will have to look elsewhere.

[bigtex501]

SmartAss,

Actually, I had already said "MY BAD", but that didn't seem to satisfy you all the same... Oh well!

And you can't debate the issues all that well, and in YOUR case... YOU call them "attacks" when people bring up points you cant handle... and when YOU have NO proof to support your points.

But nothing new here...

But do take care and have a nice day!

[Smartassawhip]

LOL Actually I debate the issues quite well with people who are indeed interested in doing just that... I just don't waste a lot of my time on those who wish to have a pissing contest. Your message crossed paths with mine so I had not seen it before I responded. Had I seen it beforehand I would not have responded so don't flatter yourself.

[bigtex501]

SmartAss,

I thought you weren't talking to me????

And AGAIN.. Have a nice day!  LOL

[Smartassawhip]

Obviously I am... LOL I intend to.... Thank you very much... You do the same!

[bigtex501]

CBS

BROKEN PROMISES BY OBAMA

"Transparency"

obama.. "I will bring all parties together, & NOT negotiate behind closed doors, & broadcast those negotiations on C-SPAN so that the American people can see what the choices are."

Obama has announced deals with groups like the pharmaceutical industry & the insurance industry after they were worked out in backroom deals.

Meanwhile, Baucus, not only shut out the public, but shut out most of his own committee from his "bipartisan negotiations."

[allawayjared]

Health Insurance Reform without a strong public option is not reform. It will not force insurance companies to compete.

[bigtex501]

Alla

CBO 9-16

Public Option...

It would add a SMALL amount of competitive pressure in many insurance markets that are currently served by a limited number of private insurers

The higher costs of those less healthy enrollees in the public plan would probably be offset partially but not entirely. The added costs would be reflected in the public plans premiums.

ie, the costs and premiums of competing private plans would, on average, be slightly lower than if no public plan was available!

[Smartassawhip]

We need a Strong PUBLIC OPTION in the final bill. Please visit the comment section for resources that will help you become more active in the fight for REAL HEALTH CARE REFORM. Thanks.

[HeisenbergSleptHere]

Dumbassahammer

Do you think all republicans are racists, bigots, sexists, and homophobes?

[Smartassawhip]

No I don't think that at all. I actually know some very normal republicans.. Why do you ask?

Your choice in childish name calling has been used before you should really try and come up with something a bit more creative. LOL

[HeisenbergSleptHere]

My childish name calling was in response to your arrogant claims here. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Smartassawhip]

Arrogant claims? What claims have I made that would be defined as arrogant? How would my comment in any way suggest that I think republicans are any of the things you asked me about? I think you may have a few screws loose or perhaps you have been hitting the bottle a little hard. Please explain.

[HeisenbergSleptHere]

HAHAHA

Like I said. You are dumb as a hammer.

[Smartassawhip]

LOL Yet you can't even answer the questions I just asked you...

[greyflcn]

re: HeisenbergSleptHere

Would you disagree that Republican politicians use Fear as their primary argument tool?

[Smartassawhip]

Good luck getting the guy to answer a simple question... LOL He only seems to be interested in exchanging insults.

[greyflcn]

re: smartassawhip

Well, for instance:

watch?v=oul0LmwuMQs

[bigtex501]

Grey,

Would YOU disagree that the Democrats use deceptive practices and often lie about previous promises.....

Or... is it censoring the public from knowing what's in their legislation or what they're doing behind closed doors...

as their primary tool to "fool" the people once again?

[bigtex501]

WHY the majority of Americans DON'T want what "other" countries have.. GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE! Average...**TAX FREEDOM DAYS** (DATE you'll have to work until you get to keep your hard earned money!) US....... April 13th Spain.. May 21st UK.....May 14th Canada..... June 6th Germany... July 8th France....... July 16th Sweden.... July 29th NOTE: these numbers do NOT reflect the HIGH National Sales Tax other countries have in comparison to the US... US 9%, UK 17.5%, France 20%

[HeisenbergSleptHere]

LOL

Where did you get that data? Did you go to the racist, sexist, bigot, homophobe web site?

[greyflcn]

re: bigtex501

The majority of Americans want a public option

The majority of Physicians want a public option

[bigtex501]

Grey, 50% oppose the plan! 44% favor the plan! ONLY 26% say the if the plan passes... the *quality of care* will get better 51% say WORSE! 20% say the costs will go down 51% say the cost will go *UP*! 55% OPPOSE penalties for NOT buying insurance! 67% OPPOSE a National Sales Tax to support paying for health care reform! 72% EXPECT Tax Hikes on those that make LESS than $250K! Under obamer Care... 45% of doctors say theyll STOP practicing 51% saying theyll KEEP practicing!

[1911arthur]

It's CRAP without a Public Option!

Beware: We will throw you out of office along with anyone who opposes a Public Option.

This bill is a joke!

[elitebanktyranny]

Our federal government is no longer federal. It is National. It is not restrained by the Constitution and has assaulted the State's sovereignty at every level.

James Madison warned of the day that members of Congress+ do not follow the laws that they themselves pass. They no longer are the ordinary people governening the ordinary people. It is Aristocracy.

Time to wake up. We lend the government their rights. They don't lend them to us.

End the Fed which prints money for unlimited government.

[jwv651]

Forget this health care BS...where are the jobs Obama promise us. Promises...Promises and what did we get absolutely nothing. We been scammed.

[greyflcn]

re: jwv651

Well, which political party has the better track record on jobs?

greyfalcon. net/ jobgrowth2.png

[bigtex501]

jwv,

Too true! Currently we have unemployment at 16.8% TOTAL (not to be confused with the 9.8% claiming UnEmp)

And of the 330 MILLION that equates out to 55,440,00 that have NO JOBS!!

But obamer would prefer to worry about MAYBE 13,000,000 that don't have insurance????

What's wrong with THIS picture???

[greyflcn]

re: bigtex501

And what do you expect?

The last stimulus was almost all tax cuts, and almost no investment.

What's more, you're complaining that something that's been brewing from Republican deregulation for decades, needs to be wrapped up in a matter of months. Is that really reasonable?

Now if you really wanted him to solve the jobs issue, he should have done what the UK did, and take over the banks and get rid of the zombie banks.

UK is doing fantastic now.

greyfalcon. net/ banks

[bigtex501]

Grey,

Sorry, but you're wrong again!

CBO Reports...

The $787 Billion from the "Stimulus" spending bill has ONLY spent $150 billion!

Of the $150 Billion

ONLY $16.5 billion was spent on infrastructure, technology and research.

$62.6 billion of that was in the form of tax cuts under the Bush plan.

$38.4 billion was sent to states for fiscal relief.

$30.6 billion for expanding unemployment benefits and other safety-net programs.

$55 billion is expected to be lost to fraud.

[bigtex501]

Grey,

And then obamer's wantinng ANOTHER stimulus bill????

And obamer already is in the process of taking over the banks.. Problem? Corruption continues and it seems like the politicians are heavily involved!

And again.... the UK pays in FAR MORE TAXES than we do BIG TIME!

[humaner]

Great news Obama however profiteering Republican terrorists are still in your midst,over come these foes with logic and reason.Terrorists all hate logic and reason it hurts there dogma.

[NotEasilyRegimented]

"Their" dogma.

[bigtex501]

CBS

BROKEN PROMISES BY OBAMA

"NO individual mandate to buy health insurance!"

Jan. 31, 2008. "I think we can anticipate that there would be people potentially who are not covered & are actually HURT if they have ***a mandate imposed*** on them."

In June, obama indicated in a letter to Kennedy & Sen. Max Baucus that he was changing his tune to accommodate Congress' written bills that CALL for an ***individual mandates***!

[jwv651]

Bend over people. LOL

[bigtex501]

CBS NEWS

BROKEN PROMISES BY OBAMA

"LOWER PREMIUMS by $2,500 for a Family of Four" ????

"If you've got health insurance through your employer, you can keep your health insurance, keep your choice of doctor, keep your plan," obama said on 10-15-08 debate against McCain. "The only thing we're going to try to do is lower costs so that those cost savings are passed onto you. And we estimate we can cut the average family's premium by about $2,500 per year."

[bigtex501]

"LOWER PREMIUMS" (cont)

CBO.. "For most preventive services, expanded utilization leads to higher, not lower, medical spending overall.

The legislation from the Senate Finance Committee could result in higher premiums for customers.

The insurance industry is threatening that the $6 billion industry-wide fee & other taxes Sen. Baucus has proposed will be passed on to consumers.

This means.. it may be years or decades before any overall savings from obama's plans materialize.....if at all."

[greyflcn]

re: BigTex501

Well part of the problem with the CBO report is that is doesn't count preventative medicine, or reduced procedures via pay-for-results as a cost savings.

Even though those have been shown in practice to be some of the most effective ways to cut costs.

[NotEasilyRegimented]

Preventative medicine adds to the cost of health care. Read an artic;e on that subject by Krauthammer.

[bigtex501]

Grey,

The CBO reports ONLY what information that it's given! So, if the Democrats want to keep information or have NO idea of what they're doing... the CBO can NOT include speculation to it's estimates!

But nice try!

[greyflcn]

re: bigtex501

What's more, what should also be obvious is that there's no public option in Baucus's bill.

Also a major way to cut prices.

Since private insurance overhead(including profit) is absolutely bloated compared to competing non-profit programs.

greyfalcon. net/ overhead3

greyfalcon. net/ overhead2

greyfalcon. net/ overhead

[bigtex501]

Grey,

And thank GOD the public option isn't in this bill!!!!

But a major way to cut prices???

CUT GOVERNMENT SPENDING so the people can keep more of their money to spend on health insurance IF they choose to do so!

Another way to "cut prices"?

Repeal the GOVERNMENT PROHIBITIONS on allowing out of state competition!

And of course... STOP OBAMER from his deal to keep drug prices high that he has with the Pharmaceutical Industry!

And... NO TAXES would be NEEDED then!

SIMPLE!

[greyflcn]

re: bigtex501

Heh, well here's my take on the state barrier thing.

Take that out, and what will you realistically get?

1. Mergers until you get only a few gigantic conglomerates

2. They relocate to whatever state has the weakest consumer protections, and the most corporate protections.

3. States will effectively be incapable of mandating minimum quality levels in insurance programs.

4. Once that's all said and done, there's still nothing saying they won't collude to keep prices high anyways.

[bigtex501]

Grey,

Your points show many of the failed theories obamer Care!

Thanks for proving my point! LOL

But the deal obamer made with the pharmaceutical lobbyists to keep drug prices high.. not much anyone can do about that now!

[greyflcn]

re: bigtex501

And example in practice, why hasn't healthcare deregulation worked for Texas?

greyfalcon. net/ tort

Has some of the highest rates of uninsured in the country, the highest premium rate increases, and things like "tort reform" have done absolutely nothing to lower costs.

[bigtex501]

Grey,

Leaving out a few things? Like the latino's choose NOT to participate in health care insurance! Missed that one?

And deregulation would be fine... but the abilities to compete outside the state's lines and obamer keeping us from buying drugs outside the U.S. also keep the prices high.

But ... WE don't have local, city and state taxes either!

But better example is Mass.... ONLY 3 years & it's failing ... and YOU would have the entire U.S. follow that pattern?

[greyflcn]

re: BigTex501

Massachusetts? Absolutely not.

Since what that is, is a mandate, without a public option.

[danosamo1424]

lets review the facts, the republicans can not stop the democrats with there agenda, the democrats want so called bi-partisenship so when this whole piece of shit bill bankrupts this nation they can have someone other than themselves to blame, the republicans need to stay home on this one, because this will be political suicide for the dems, but they dont care, to them this is just one step closer to their dream--SOCIALISM

[greyflcn]

re: danosamo1424

So since when have Republicans been fiscally conservative?

greyfalcon. net/ doonsbury.png

greyfalcon. net/ debt2.png

And also, we already have Socialism. We have roads, firemen, policemen, military, emergency rooms, medicare, social security, etc.

greyfalcon. net/ joe

And frankly when it comes to healthcare, every other developed country has a "socialist" healthcare system, where they get better results at a fraction of the cost.

greyfalcon. net/ healthcare

[HemiHead66]

Don't tax us - tax them. That's some funny shit. No one wants to give up their million dollar paychecks and bonuses. They're just happy as hell pushing the cost on to the public - as usual. In the end they'll tax the smokers again. Hey - a pack of smokes only costs 10 bucks now. And they only cost about 50 cents to make. Ha Ha - only in America. Where the greed just oozes outta everything that's touched. Where the only rich country to leave 50 million of it's citizens twisting in the wind.

[urbanprophet777]

If he dont give public option,demcorats,democracy...w­ell i guess it just prove that he is a socialist..

[urbanprophet777]

Ok why do you Americans never learn,Obama is just a puppet.Know do you want this puppet,that dosent listen to ure opinions,or do you want a man whit no strings for change.Obama are not more boss then you let him be.Stand up for you rights.

[kerasea]

The final bill will be a watered down piece of legislation that will not help most americans. I excpect my premiums to keep rising and doctors offices and hospitals to be chaotic..

[DillonX]

Without A PUBLIC OPTION, WE'RE ALL GONNA HAFTA BEND OVER.

[DillonX]

Without THE PUBLIC OPTION the Insurance Companies are gonna get billions more AND WE ARE ALL SCREWED!

[HemiHead66]

These fucking Republicans are going to box us into some half-ass reform that doesn't do shit. If Wall Street keeps their million-dollar paychecks and bonuses - we're stuck paying for it.

[NotEasilyRegimented]

Guilty of dereliction of duty as Obama focuses on the wrong things while our soldiers are dying in Afghanistan.

[mmcintee]

Actually, most of Obama's day is spent on Afghanistan. Watch any of the White House Press briefings. You need to develop better (truer?) talking points than this.

[NotEasilyRegimented]

While Obama dithers, soldiers are dying. Generals Petreus and McChrystal should file charges against him for DERELICTION OF DUTY

[NotEasilyRegimented]

A General Court-Martial is in order for this communist. Even I know that a "tet offensive" type of attack is brewing in Afghanistan as Obama sits on his hands.

[greyflcn]

re: NotEasilyRegimented

You do realized Bush was in Afghanistan for years, right?

[NotEasilyRegimented]

Of course

What is your point?

[greyflcn]

re: NotEasilyRegimented

Well pretty much, Bush gave us these wars and this recession.

And I find it a bit unreasonable to make the argument that he's a "criminal" if he isn't able to wrap those issues up in a few months.

What's more, I find it a bit naive to even consider the premise that we CAN solve Afghanistan with mere brute force. No army before has ever been able to do it.

That said, youtube search for "White House Quitely Sends 13,000 More Troops To Afghanistan"

[NotEasilyRegimented]

Not so sure Bush gave us these wars. Insane radical Islamic fundamentalists had something to do with it too. I think Bush started the recession. I think Obama has made it worse. He is criminal because of his refusal to pay attention to his Generals on the ground in Afghanistan quickly enough. Time is of the essence as they say.

I think maybe 10 years as an occupation force could lead to some modicum of success in Afghanistan. But, we don't have the money or the will. I am ready to shut it down.

[greyflcn]

re: NotEasilyRegimented

So 8 years later, why is NOW so critical of a time?

What's more,

That country has essentially never had a centralized government, and has stopped invasions cold for thousands of years. Not to mention they had an election recently that was even more corrupt than the one in Iran.

What makes you think it's even possible to "Win" in Afganistan?

Much less, by brute force alone.

[NotEasilyRegimented]

grteyflcn

NOW is what we got!!!

I guess you didn't read what I said. I said I am ready to withdraw from Afghanistan. We don't have the money, or the time to win there. It would take about 400000 troops and about 20 years.

[NotEasilyRegimented]

But we should shut down the war in Afghanistan only IF we are prepared to become Isolationist and Protectionist for a time. Build up our manufacturing base again. Develop our own resources: Oil, natural gas, coal, and nuclear. Improve our agriculture. Build up our military. Close the borders.

Let the rest of the world equilibrate. Without the US. We also gotta get rid of this communist, Obama.

[NotEasilyRegimented]

Obama needs to get his priorities straight. He should face a General Court-martial as Commander in Chief with charges brought by Generals Petreus and Mchrystal.

[willi234]

This bill is just a beginning. The only way to control your skyrocketing insurance company premiums is with the American Option. (public option) Republicans & some Democrats will be bought off by big insurance interests. Hopefully, more will vote couragously like Sen. Snowe.

[jwv651]

Health care, Health care, Health care, what about the damn Economy? Did they forget about the Economy.

[asianlikerice]

I feel betrayed, Where the f*ck is the public option that the American people were promised? I hope the democrats and Obama enjoyed their short stint in office, because unless i see that on the table again i'm going to vote for a third party candidate.

[sk8bow]

please don't hate him. i'm not saying he's doing great job but cut him slack. i don't want anymore screwballs in there making harder on us people!

he's definately screwing us much less than those neocon freaks!

[spiritsA]

I don't get the process. So 4 bills with government plan and 1 bill without, then they make a decision on which is the final bill?

[beancube2008]

Why don' t you have no clue what bills are in this reform?

We need smarter Internet infrastructure so we can do that for the future and for our kids. Please go to your community church or non-profit organization and use them to build such infrastructure so we can use technology to reference, communicate, and help each other to think. We voted for change, not for re-living set backs in history.

Remember the latest economic crisis?

Bubbles had been export to China as the next bomb already.

[Mangina9000]

Most hilarious part about this whole story is:

GOP is attacking a bill that would increase government involvement in American health care...

...because it cuts Medicare?

HOW STUPID ARE REPUBLICANS.

[edenskid]

yeah, just imagine! The stupid thing is that their followers don't even seem to know that Medicare is COMPLETELY a government entity!!

[theTrenchantObdurate]

I think it's funny cause the gop was so against medicare at it's inception. You think they would want to see it get cut. But no because that alienates there base! I have been hearing that it shouldn't effect medicare negativelly though... again it's all talk till they inact something.... we'll see....

[usaleb]

hahahaha, LOL  You're Awesome

[jwv651]

I just hope we the people don't have tax increases with this bill.

[theTrenchantObdurate]

We shouldn't. They actually said it would decrease the defeciet a little ... but it's all talk till it is implemented.