@TheMercilessEye How many hours a day would you say you spend thinking about anal rape and little boys? Is it time that we perhaps came round and had a look at your hard drive?
@circushead I think of it every time I see a Catholic Priest, these days, and remember what the priests were like in the parish in my home town. The scandal destroyed the congregation. Nice fail, there, clowny...
@circushead Ha, funny. Let's say a fetus is alive. How is an abortion any worse that hunting animals? A fetus does not feel pain, or have fear. An animal feels pain and fear of death. Also, abortions are usually done because the mother cannot support a child, hunting is done for rectreation.
@DejaPoo909 We weren't discussing hunting. Hunting is not relevant to this discussion. But if you want to introduce that issue, I will give you my opinion that human life is to be defended in all its forms, even in 'imperfect' and 'inconvenient' forms. Animal life is not on the same level as human life.
@circushead How is a human life more valuable that an animals life? In case, you haven't noticed, the human race is fucking this planet in the ass. Also, the human population has skyrocketed in the past years. Making abortions illegal will not help this problem at all, and we will run out of resources.
@DejaPoo909 Our planet has an ass? I assume you mean Cleveland. The human race is fucking the planet right in the Cleveland? Okay.
We don't have an overpopulation problem. We have a distribution problem. We have a justice problem. We have a selfishness problem. Let's remove these problems, not the children. Abortion is just another symptom of our collective illness.
@DejaPoo909 You and I have a very different idea of what gives pleasure.
Abortions do remove human beings. The fetus is a living human being. It cannot survive independently, but then neither can a newborn baby. If human life does not begin at the moment of conception, when does it begin? Any juncture you can name will be, in my mind, purely arbitrary. The only rational conclusion is that human life begins at the moment of conception.
@DejaPoo909 Why yes, I do believe that when a sperm combines with an egg, human life is the result. Where do you believe you came from, the cabbage patch?
Again, if human life does not begin at the moment of conception, when does it begin? Any juncture you pick will be purely arbitrary. The only rational and biologically consistent answer you can make is 'Yes, human life does begin at the moment of conception."
And that make abortion the taking of a human life.
@circushead no its not. human life starts at birth. that is fine line. embrio is not human being. its patch of cells. it is no more "human" then egg and sperm. we dont consider death as person do we? human nobady is pro abortion. when an fetus has bechome developed enugh to survive outside of womb, its human, before this, it is not able to support it self. if mother is in danger, then abortion is gonna save more lives. so human life beggins when the baby is born. theres you awnser.
"Again, if human life does not begin at the moment of conception, when does it begin?"
When the heart begins to beat [in the mothers womb] thats when life begins. The child cannot support itself without the mother feeding it and it would die without the mother feeding herself. Thus the child is in no mans land
@devante11 A newborn baby cannot survive without its mother feeding it, and its heart has been beating for several months, so your definition of when life begins fails. And in any case, abortions happen after that time, so I assume you believe by your own definition of when life begins that abortion is murder.
I agree with you that the unborn child is in "no mans land". Excellent observation! So let's not allow any man, or woman, to artificially end that pregnancy.
First off, one of the founders of NARAL said that the illegal abortion death statistic was exaggerated. Second, it's actually reducing the number of deaths? Even if you take the 5,000-10,000 deaths statistic to be correct, 3,500 unborn children are killed every day by abortion. So, no, it's not saving more lives. Third, would we legalize rape to make it safer for the rapist? Just because something would be safer legal doesn't mean that we ought to enable it.
@americanidolgal He's not equipped to argue, only to express outrage that anyone deviates from the position he assumed was unassailable. Pity he can't feel outrage over something, like abortion, that truly calls for it.
The fetus is human alright, but with no brain to think does it really matter? It cannot feel pain or even think. Wouldn't suprise me if you didn't want people to masturbate because they were killing semen. The only reason we live is to go to heaven right? Wouldn't an aborted fetus go to heaven then? Wouldn't we be doing "them" a favor by killing them before they are thrown into arms of parents who, for some reason, are unfit to take care of them or dont even want a child
@Alecalisk You haven't attempted to answer my question, "If human life does not begin at the moment of conception, when does it begin?"
Q: "Wouldn't we be doing "them" a favor by killing them before they are thrown into arms of parents who, for some reason, are unfit to take care of them or dont even want a child"
A: Every single child is wanted, if not by its natural parents, then by people on adoption waiting lists.
Should 5-year olds with poor or indifferent parents be offed, too?
@DejaPoo909 That's a reeaaalllly poor grasp of biology you've got their, chippy. The real abortion in question has been your education. Any way you can sue the state responsible for that particular abomination?
@circushead Again, you didnt answer my question, I asked you if it would be accepted by you for the woman to abort the fetus if she would die giving birth to it
Anyways, I'm gonna go ahead and end this discussion here.
@stratocaster539 On the contrary, they've wondered why. Why is their a holocaust of the unborn. Why do we put our future to death. And they've decided it's wrong.
It's woman's right to choose. Until they're born they're not people yet and women shouldn't bring children into the world unless they are ready . 25,000 people die from HUNGER daily. Does anyone seem to care about them?Idiots think a fetus is more important than a human that's already been born.Even if abortions are stopped people will still get them. Wouldn't you rather they get safe, legal ones? It's like saying that it's wrong for women to menstruate cause they just "killed" a potential baby
5-10,000 women a year died from complications brought on by illegal abortion procedures prior to Roe v. Wade. His evidence for that is WHAT exactly? Perhaps they shouldn't have had those abortions in the first place. You know how many BABIES die each year from abortion? A LOT MORE than 5-10,000. And how many women suffer serious/fatal ailments now after LEGAL abortions? I can about GUARANTEE you this guy can't answer that. Being gay & vegan doesn't make it mandatory to pick the WRONG side, dude.
@FlyUnicornsFly Abortion prevents babies, that is what it is for.
If you are interested in safety approx. 550 US women die from childbirth annually prior during or just after the event and there are less than five abortion deaths annually.
So given a pregnancy in question the safest option is abortion.
@Salinity1001, you were civil in replying to me. I'm not used to that from pro-choice people, so it was a pleasant surprise. That being said, abortion does NOT prevent babies, only avoiding getting pregnant does that. Termination of a pregnancy is TERMINATION of a baby. Your "5" annual abortion-related deaths is no more dependable a stat than the 5-10,000 deaths from illegal abortions & doesn't account for non-immediate deaths/issues re. mental health/suicide/breast cancer/others.
@FlyUnicornsFly A baby is from birth to one year old. It might well be more specific if we refer to the proper terms in this context to try and remove the obvious connotations of real murder of children, which no body wants to do.
Try looking up CDC abortion death figures in the US. for 2006 and '07 there were 5 or 6 from memory, and about 1.2 million abortions. About 3.5% of mental health instability is attributable to abortion with NO breast cancer. Maternal deaths are about 550 per year.
@BabiesKillMothers - weak argument, sickening user name. Your "facts" are all incomplete or outright wrong.
A baby's a baby during pregnancy & NO SCIENCE, including medical science, even attempts to argue otherwise. The facts are what they are, not what you wish them to be.
With the "procedure" having been legal for only 4 decades, info on health risks is still being compiled, but it exists & the breast cancer risk is very real.
@FlyUnicornsFly Sorry I was logged into another user name, quite apt and used because it is truer than 'abortion kills babies'. (Somebody elses)
You will find my figures are accurate, and if something does not turn up after 40 years, it probably isn't going to, NO recent scientific unbiased studies or papers have seen a connection between abortion and breast cancer.
Most western countries have the same abortion safety, Australia has had 3 Abortion deaths in 11 years and about 900,000 abortions
@Salinity1001, links between abortion/breast cancer have been there as long as modern medicine. Just googled it again & the only site denying it was something called the "prochoiceactionnetwork"- hardly an objective source. I'll trust Johns Hopkins, USC, Penn & other med schools more than that site, thanks. Since 2009, research in China, Turkey, U.S., Sri Lanka, elsewhere has reaffirmed the abortion/breast cancer risk.
The tone of certitude in your post isn't supported by facts.
@FlyUnicornsFly The only 'link' is that women who do not breast feed have a greater risk of breast cancer than those who do breast feed, for whatever reason. Abortion per se has nothing to do with it.
Read 'Abortion in Womens Lives' page 22 on..
Perhaps you could forward your science paper references in a p.m.?
@Salinity1001, I rarely disregard the 500-character limit, but 1 or 2 things I didn't get to last time.
You can't make a claim like there being only 3 abortion-related deaths (of would-be MOTHERS) when effects like breast cancer/mental illness take years to manifest & studies are ongoing.
You said that any medical concerns would already be evident after 40 years. Given that it took modern humans 35,000 years just to learn that micro-organisms could kill them, I kinda doubt it!
@FlyUnicornsFly Since abortion related deaths are as rare as hens teeth, (single figures) and maternal deaths (usually within pregnancy to six weeks after birth if relevant) are in the hundreds for whichever Western country you care to name, there is no contest between which is the safer.
Since the worlds TOTAL knowledge is doubling every ten years or so presently your puzzling 35,000 years is irrelevant.
@Salinity1001, it's no fun admitting you've lost a debate but you might consider it at this point.
"Abortion in Women's Lives" > from Guttmacher Institute affiliated w. (drum roll) Planned Parenthood. NON-IMPARTIAL SOURCE, therefore useless.
Not all abortion-related deaths are as straightforward as have-procedure-die-within-days, or even possible to catalogue as yet. Thought I'd been clear on that.
Studies that show abortion/cancer link are so numerous even YOU can find them.
@FlyUnicornsFly Guttmacher and PP are NON profit making and the study Principle is Heather Boonstra, you could look her up too and other reports she has written. I just have.
One does not lose a debate when one has simply shown facts to prove ones point. One either relies on facts for ones opinion or one is ignorant or ignores the facts for ones opinion. I will certainly concede a point if it is shown to be true.
Since Guttmacher simply work to improve womens lives I wont fault them for that.
What do you say in the face of murder? What shall I say when the Nazi's come to murder you? Perhaps nothing? You figure it out, Indefinite Detention Sinner.
If a woman dies during an abortion procedure, then they consider it an abortion related death. If she dies a few hours or even a few days after the procedure, NARAL will never admit it was an abortion related death. Therefore once she leave the clinic, NARAL will never blame the abortion clinic.
@mjt19741 How do you know what you have posted is true? Maybe you should read the CDC US figures.
According to CDC approximately 500 - 600 women die from Childbirth or related complications every year, and approx. 5 die from abortion and its possible complications.
Still quite low from about 4 million pregnancies, but an absolute risk that abortion is 100 times safer than childbirth in the US or Western world..
@MustardMcPurlin@mjt19741 Every abortion eradicates the baby's life. When a woman dies, on the table, or out back in the dumpster, or at home later on, the abortionists call that 'gravy'.
What these priests are doing is called 'bearing silent witness' to the horror of abortion. Cammy the camera man has approached them with some absurd observations about abortion being
'safe'. To their eternal credit, the priests abstain from laughing in Cammy's face, and they continue their silent witness to the truth.
abortion is a non-issue. stay out of other people's lives and mind your own business. not everyone believes in your imaginary jewish zombie friend, and we're all frankly pretty tired of hearing how a bunch of wackos who can't even develop their own sense of morals without having a bunch of shit crammed down their throats try to tell us that they know what's best for the world
@TheRuffWoof Authentic Roman Catholics and other types of Christians disturb you because they stand up for life. This obviously tweaks some sliver of your conscience. May you one day see the light of truth and act upon it.
@circushead they also only care about the baby BEFORE it's been born. once it's out, it's officially YOUR problem. no matter if you wanted the abortion because you can't afford to feed and clothe it, or aren't mentally fit to care for it, YOU had sex and YOU have to deal with it. this idea made sense before the technology to euthanize unwanted children came about. now we don't have to live with mistakes like you if we don't want to
@TheRuffWoof Who do you mean by 'they'? Agencies of the Catholic Church care for fully one half of all AIDS patients in Africa. Catholic children's aid cares for hundreds of thousands of children in North America. So if you mean that these priests don't care about children after they're born, you are most assuredly and demonstrably wrong.
Further you agree that the unborn children, but they must be 'euthanized' if their parents are poor. What a monster you are.
@circushead the same catholic agencies that claim to be taking care of AIDS also advocate against safe sex and condom use, so they're as much a part of the problem as the solution where AIDS is concerned. I don't think that molesting children counts as "caring" for them. I did not say that children "must" be euthanized if the parents are poor. it is up to the parents of the unborn child what they do, and them only. not your family, not your problem. move the fuck on
@TheRuffWoof They don't 'claim' to take care of 1 in 2 AIDS patients in Africa. They do so. It's a statistical fact. The Catholic Church advocates chastity and monogamy. They do not worship the condom, as you do. That is their prerogative.
To suggest that child molestation is part of the Catholic child aid shows you are not to be taken seriously.
Where murder of children, which you have acknowledged the unborn are, is concerned, it is not a simple mater of discretion. I will not move on.
@circushead condoms prevent the spread of AIDS, which many africans are born with. to imply that priests DON'T molest children shows that you are ignorant of hundreds of court-proven cases of molestation. people who want or need abortions get them regardless of whether or not there are clinics available. they could die doing it in an unsafe place. please consider the health of presently living people with bigger decisions to make than "should I waste my day pushing my religion on people?"
@TheRuffWoof Child molestation is a societal evil, but people like you are eager to attribute it only to the Catholic Church. It happens with sickening regularity to children in the care of non-religious NGOs, yet you would NEVER speak of those organizations as you speak of the Church, because you are a bigot. There's no such thing as a safe abortion. It murders the child and physically and psychologically maims the mother.
Condoms prevent AIDS. According to recent history, not so much.
@TheRuffWoof I'm not the least bit interested in pushing my religion on anyone. I'm interested in bearing witness the the dignity and right to life of everyone, the sick, the imperfect, and yes, even the poor and the inconvenient unborn.
I'm also interested, as you can clearly read, in refuting the lies of those, like you, who are snug in the cold embrace of the culture of death, who cry out for more human sacrifice, as though your hunger will ever be sated.
@circushead The 'unborn' by definition are not part of the community. They are potential people like the thousands of eggs in a female and billions of sperm in any male.
The important thing in my view is that a girl or woman, decides to give birth to a new human because only she can decide from her experience if the birth is going to benefit her or the world in a positive way.
If not, then she , being the giver of life can withdraw it for another time maybe, when conditions are better.
@MustardMcPurlin You're scientifically illiterate, which is a shame. Can a female's egg become a human by itself? No. Will a male's sperm ever grow to a fully grown human on its own? Again, no. Will the unborn, if left unaborted, become adult humans? Yes. You and I are the physical evidence. There's the difference.
If your mother decides to kill you today, since she gave birth to you, is that okay with you? Why or why not?
@circushead If eggs and sperm are not potential embryos, what are they?
When I was in the womb I would have no choice in any matter of life or death, none, I would not be aware of anything, even till birth a fetus brain is enveloped with natural anaesthetic adenosine, all mammals are the same.
You seem to be projecting your persona into that of a mindless fetus, which the fetus is impossible to process.
Women are not governed by fate or what others want when they dont have to be.
@MustardMcPurlin What I wrote was that eggs and sperm cannot grow by themselves into adult humans. This makes them unlike unborn children, which will, and makes the comparison you made earlier invalid, and the work of a biological illiterate.
"Mindless fetus"? On the contrary, the fetal brain sends waves registered on the EEG at less than 12 weeks old.
You are either tragically misinformed, or you ignore science for reasons of politics. Perhaps you're a combination of these things.
@circushead But a fetus is a potential person, obviously there is a difference between gametes and embryo/fetuses, but neither are people, babies or children.
The brain may be generating waves from the start, but so does the brain of a fish,
The human body to brain circuits are not in place before 24 weeks so even without adenosine nothing could register. It is certainly mindless and will-less. All movement is spontaneous spinal cord reflex.
@MustardMcPurlin A fetus is a person at an earlier state of development than a newborn, which is at an earlier state than a toddler, which is at an earlier state than a pre-schooler, etc. You wrote that a sperm or an egg is no different than a fetus, and there you were stunningly, stupidly wrong. You referred to the 'brainless fetus'. I pointed out how wrong you were, you mention fish.
You'd better be careful, if sentience is your benchmark, you're close to proving yourself to be not human.
@circushead I see you are unable to to read things without jumping to wrong conclusions, or even lying about what was written.
I wrote that sperm,eggs and embryo/fetuses are all potential people, and people are born as independent conscious beings, there are no people in wombs.
I have never referred to a 'brainless fetus', thats anencephaly, though the fetus is mindless until its first consciousness kicks in at birth.
@MustardMcPurlin I have lied about nothing you have written. I have only used your own words to show you how biologically illiterate you are.
"...the fetus is mindless until its first consciousness kicks in at birth."
What a convenient, unscientific, arbitrary definition of life that is. But of course it's one any fascist with a blood lust for innocent lives has to make. Too bad it doesn't cut the, ahem, mustard.
@MustardMcPurlin I'll ask you: if life doesn't begin at conception, WHEN does it begin.
Previously you wrote that consciousness 'kicks in' at birth. This is an embarrassingly lame effort, since children are born at various junctures post-conception, and to say that life begins at such an arbitrary and varying time just makes no sense.
Would you like to try again, and this time perhaps not shit your pants so badly, you mouth-breathing fascist dolt?
@circushead ' I'll ask you: if life doesn't begin at conception, WHEN does it begin." - Try reading my previous reply on the subject, it was adequately comprehensive for you.
When you draw breath from being mind numbingly stupid give scientific evidence when consciousness kicks in.
@MustardMcPurlin So life begins whenever that baby happens to be born, even though that can vary by hours, days, weeks, and even months. There is NO biological difference between a baby in the womb 24 hours before its birth and a newborn baby, but you have arbitrarily declared that life begins only when the baby clears the vagina.
That's when consciousness "kicks in" as you so scientifically put it.
@MustardMcPurlin Not at all. I believe that life begins at conception. Science is on my side. You're just a dumb thug who wishes to be part of a mob that crushes the powerless. That's the basis of your position. You have no science to support you. None. You're just a weak conformist going with the flow, and every time you try to make an argument, you embarrass yourself.
You have no science to support you, and you're not bright enough to bullshit. Loser.
@circushead Read this pdf, you will know as much as anybody, almost, on the planet. RCOG Fetal Awareness Mar 2010
Extract
After 24 weeks, it is difficult to say that the fetus experiences pain because this, like all other
experiences, develops postnatally along with memory and other learned behaviours. In addition, increasing evidence suggests that the fetus never enters a state of wakefulness inside the womb. The placenta produces chemicals that suppress nervous system activity and awareness.
@MustardMcPurlin I guess you're reaching for "one's life" there, Captain Shitpants? Glad to see you've located your thesaurus, though. Look up 'heartless', you'll find 36 words and a fairly good likeness of you, Wall Street Journal style.
To say that an unborn has life, but is not a life only proves that you need desperately to get a life.
@circushead 'Makes no sense at all.' N.B. continued, I have not 'arbitrarily' declared when life begins when the baby fetus clears the vagina. (stop lying) I took pains to point out previously that life began billions of years ago, human life began with the first Homo Sapiens, fetal life begins after embryological life and a persons life begins at birth. 'A life' has biographical notes, life or death is a biological fact.
@MustardMcPurlin You have most certainly arbitrarily declared that consciousness "kicks in" (HA HA HA YOU'RE SUCH A MORON!) only at birth, whenever birth happens, and that is when life begins. That is what you wrote. That's the best you can do. You're wrong.
A life has biographical notes?
Holy cow! Are you suggesting that a person isn't a person until they're featured on 'Biography'. My God you're stupid!
@circushead Oh dear, I am trying to discuss a sensitive subject with with someone who cannot see any point except their own cartoon simple, parrot speak.
Dont you know the difference between life and a life? Ans. No. Ha ha ha. Who is a 'moron' now? Goose.
@MustardMcPurlin No, I do not know the difference between 'life' and 'a life'. There is no difference, except to heartless mass murder apologist losers.
@circushead Ha ha Salinity has the right idea. Dictionaries can be a valuable aid to discovering what people are talking about. Coupled with the realisation that others may have a different point of view, measured and compassionate but with a different focus.
Abortion has never been murder even before R v W, but the best mothers are volunteers for the job, like most vocations.
@MustardMcPurlin I understand the concept that others have points of view that differ from mine. I respect the dignity of all kinds of human life: even the imperfect and the inconvenient. Others don't. I have a word for them. That word is 'wrong'. Tragically so. I don't believe in punishing the unborn with capital punishment for the crime of having parents seemingly incapable of thinking ahead.
I'm a guy who wouldn't have okayed the slaughtering of Steve Jobs in the womb.
@circushead Oh, Rydell was right, you are a bloke, a sanctimonious, (thats you not me), know-all without a womb, who wants to tell women with a womb, what they should do with it.
When the red mist falls from your eyes, and you get over your womb envy, realise what is wrong in your life, is not necessarily wrong in others. This projection of your persona into a mindless fetus is pointless, superstition based even though abortion is but one instinct of a woman unwillingly pregnant.
@Salinity1001 Nicely done. There's more parlour room psychology in that single post than I see in an entire season of Law and Order.
Please learn to respect all kinds of human life. The old, the infirm, the imperfect, the less than convenient, heck, maybe even those unfortunate enough to be in the first nine months of their development toward what you and I both are right now.
Have a heart, why don't you? For these little innocents, half of whom will grow up to be women with wombs, even.
@circushead Hm. I can piss you off to no end- aborted at 14, don't regret it. I'm actually glad I made that choice- b/c now I'm educated, married, and have a REAL son to care for. I'm still pro-choice lol. AND pregnant w/ my second! Congratulate me- and feel free to send your condolences to my future son or daughter.. BTW I have a question- if you saw a pregnant lady walking into an abortion clinic, how hard, honestly would you try to stop her? If it REALLY is MURDER and all, -c
-c and you care SO much, what would you do to stop that BABY from getting MURDERED? I mean, if I saw someone about to shoot/kill an actual born baby, I'd put myself between the kid and the gun, w/o a second thought. I'd do that for anyone about to get heartlessly murdered.. and/or 86 the fucker trying to do the killing.. why don't you guys ever show the same open desperation and fight? Why not kill more abobo docs, blow up more clinics, or 86 post-abortive women like me? Why -c
-c don't you guys ever SHOW how much you care? All you do is bitch, whine, and show stupid pictures and pray to a nonexistant deity based off of homophobia, slavery, and rape-marriage.. I'd go out and DO somehting, lol- but your kind enver does, and on the off-chance one of you DOES 'fight' for the fetuses, you go to prison for REAL murder- and the rest of you guys either say you don't care THAT much, or you sit&cheer about domestic terrorism.. you're swiss cheese, bro- give up.
@ryddelwearsahat No truly pro-life person would countenance the murder of anyone, because, as your mother probably told you, two wrongs don't make a right.
Well, in a nutshell, the reason we don't blow up abortuaries, murder the hack doctors who commit the abortions, and murder the other victims of abortion, women like you who have them, is that we stand for life. Not death.
To those who see nothing wrong with abortion, this must seem strange. But try to see the world from our point of view. To us, unlike to you, killing a person doesn't solve anything.
Changing hearts is the way to go. And forgiveness, without which there is no future.
@circushead I have respect for all life, thanks for the encouragement though. So much so that I support women in their endeavours to control their surprisingly trigger-happy procreation, if inopportune, before it gets too late and inhumane. Thankfully we can do that presently without waiting till birth and the cliff drop or abandonment in the forest method like the old days.
The womans doctor and herself are the only ones responsible, ultimately it is her call, there is no point interfering.
@Salinity1001 Abortion is inhumane no matter what month it's done in. It's the ultimate inhumanity. However you seem to be arguing it gets MORE inhumane the longer the pregnancy goes on. This makes no more biological sense than saying a woman is "a little bit pregnant". Do you think before you write?
Not interfering in another's life is an excellent principle. I agree wholeheartedly with it. That's why I oppose anyone's 'right' to interfere in the life of an unborn child. Murder is not a right.
@circushead Actually, if you consider defending an innocent life by killing a would-be criminal attacker to be murder, you're an idiot. There's no nice way to wiggle around that- and your attempting to avoid that point or nicen up your cowardice in shoddy word play shows how hypocritical YOU are in your supposed valuing of a fetus's life... apparently it ISN'T equal in value to a born child- /c we BOTH know that unless you lack a human soul, we'd BOTH 86 a motherfucker if we -c
-c saw someone about to kill an ACTUAL child, b/c there IS a difference.. and unless you are a coward or just a fucking scumbag, you throw everything out the window to protect a fucking kid in the face of danger.. I know i sure as hell would- if you won't, then that is YOUR problem.. So, since a fetus is NOT, apparently, worth the effort you'd normally expend on a born child, you obviously agree w/ me, atleast to SOME extent, that it's not worth the effort beyond catcalls and -c
-c picketing- in other words.. pretending to give a shit when in fact, you're just doing it for show. Sometimes you HAVE to kill- denying that is to deny natural human life and world fucking history, point-blanc. Life-or-death situations arise every day, all around the world- there are evil fucks out there.. maybe you've lived a shallow, sheltered life where you never had to escalate beyond petty words.. but in the real world, words don't stop bullets or stop rapes or stop -c
-c school shootings, or stop suicide bombers, or stop pedophiles.. BULLETS stop violent, uncontrollable and dangerous, guiltless criminals.. BULLETS save the lives of hostages. And bullets can often save the life of a child caught in a VERY shit situation. People that try it your way end up dead or costing the lives of countless innocents, for the sake of the 'soul' of one soul-LESS criminal on a rampage.. So my point still stands. Either you're a moron, a coward, or delusional.
@ryddelwearsahat That was far too much writing from you. You should consider applying the same editing tendencies you've applied to your offspring to your writing.
But, that aside, to be pro-life is to assert the dignity and legitimacy of all kinds of life, including that of the unborn child. If I were to become a mass murderer in the name of that cause, or if I were to support someone who did, I would be morally inconsistent.
In short, murder is not the answer. Not for you. Not for me.
@circushead ...on deaf ears over here. Actually, if you valued a fetus the same as you did a real child, saving it from being brutally butchered to pieces would mean a lot more- as it obviously doesn't, why not just mind your own business? When YOU get pregnant and have to choose between an embryo and your entire future, THEN you can make decisions regarding your OWN body and future.. but not mine.. same as I have no right, and WANT no right, over YOUR body, sex life, future, ect..
@ryddelwearsahat You don't want anyone to have control over your body and your fate. Yet you refused to extend the same consideration to your own child. Your own real child. The first one. The one you murdered.
@circushead Sorry, but it's only a potentiality until born.. I did not ahve the option of adoption, anyway.. atleast, not w/o suiciding and liekly ruining the 'wodnerful life' I'd have sacrificed myself for by sending it into the same hell-hole I was just in. Seriously.. it's like you know everyone, everywhere, inside&out, how they think/feel and just.. you're not god.. give people the benefit of the doubt and trust them when it comes to decisions like birth. You DON'T know me.
-c You don't know why i did what i did any more than you can speculate about every other woman.. I could tell you my physical life depended on it, and even that wouldn't matter.. b/c all you want to see or hear is whatever you can use to make it 'okay' for you to judge people and believe what you want.. it's like you WANT to be negative, and it's like you WANT women to be 'evil' or whatever.. shouldn't you rather be happy it's not a baby, it's not murder, and that murder is -c
-c in fact NOT being committed? If I actually took the time to provide you w/ links supporting what I've said thus far about fetal brain development- how a fetus can't think or feel and thus not be a person, only a potential person.. if I took the time to explain it all in excruciating detail, would you even actually read it? Or just play word games, insult me, and repeat yourself like a parrot? Or would you instead just call me a liar?
No, YOUR opinion doesn't really matter to me.. this is just to waste time in-between bouts of doing stuff IRL. I have free time- it's fun!
..I do this for other people, to help them and defend them.. every now&then I help someone, change their mind, or even give some well-needed advice and change someone's life.. I don't ever want someone to experience what I did just to make someone ELSE happy.. I have first-hand experience in YOUR game.
-c Not everyone regrets their abortions or are damaged by it.. that is a serious myth. I'm healthy, happy, and fine.. and the best any of your kind can do is 'go 'nuh uh youre disagreeing w/ me so that makes me right' or whatever.. The only people allowed to have a voice or know any facts are the ones YOUR kind approves of.. pitiful.. like the nazi party. Sorry, but this isn't about the fetus or embryo- this is about the woman carrying it and how she is affected.. REAL people.
@circushead Actually, I already explained this one- human tissue does not equal a person. I don't CARE that the tissue is human, or living.. I care whether or not it is a person, and what the price for it's survival is- if it comes at the cost of someone who already exists, it is pretty much worthless unless the person who it is taking from is WILLING to give.. otherwise, it is barbarism and slavery and rape to force someone to sacrifice themselves for a potential.
@ryddelwearsahat You've missed my point. I don't believe it's me you're trying to convince that unborn children aren't really alive. I think it's yourself you're trying, in vain, to convince.
@circushead ...yeah.. i was wondering if you were going to be like the other puppets and crack out THAT overused fool's gold piece.. heard it, nope, try again- though, like I've already predicted- you'll likely just tell me I'm disagreeing w/ you b/c you're right and I'm in denial, right?
..b/c apparently that makes it easier for YOU to feel like you're morally superior to me, now that you've been called out for deliberately seeking reasons to hate.. I've seen it before, clone.
@ryddelwearsahat I'm sure you've heard it before. It's patently obvious in nearly every sentence you write. That's why people bring it up when they communicate with you. Because they can see it. Because it's true.
@circushead Actually, it isn't.. but believe what you want- you'll go on doing so for YOUR benefit, for YOUR ego, and for your need to control.. seeing as how us women apparently can't think or feel for ourselves.. I need someone else to tell me what I feel, right?
..you are a puppet like the rest- thank you for proving me exactly right.. you are pitifully predictable- and are the main reason I am proud to be pro-choice..
I'm not allowed to have my own opinions or emotions? Nice.
@circushead Now you have all the relevant facts at your fingertips there is no need to exaggerate or tell untruths. You are still jumping wildly to inaccurate conclusions about pro-choice though.
I have mentioned before that abortion is always humane and it is. It would be inhumane to cliff drop a new-born or abandon one in the forest, remember? I dont think you read very well before you write. Pay attention!
The female with a fetus equivalent of a sea cucumber has every right to terminate.
@Salinity1001 Really? So all those aborted babies would grow up to sea cucumbers. Well, I bow to you knowledge, Dean of Science.
Again, I've nothing against choice. I'm in favour of salad bars. I just hate abortion. It's a scourge.
I think, if I may, the problem with pro-aborts such as yourself is that they get lazy. They require their moral, grown up opponents be as silent as in the in utero victims of their sacrament. When people like me turn out to be capable of vigour, you fold.
So an unborn human child will grow into a sea cucumber, idiot?
Pro-abort. Short for pro-abortion. It's what a person in favour of abortion is. It's an accurate description, unlike 'pro-choice' which is an exercise in self-delusion engaged in by people who can't even say the word describing what they promote.
I don't hate women. If I hated women, I'd support abortion. How do you feel about sex selection abortion in India and China? Still pro-choice, idiot? Then you hate women.
Your powers of comprehension remain dismal. I would excuse it if English was not your second language, but it looks like it isn't, I conclude you are full of your own shit so much you are unable to comprehend any point but your own..
I dont know any 'pro-abort's what would be the point of that? Unless they were referring specifically to some unwanted genetic malfunction.
@Salinity1001 My comprehension of English is fine. You equated the unborn human child with a sea cucumber. You called it "the equivalent of a sea cucumber". Unborn child = sea cucumber. That's you talking. You make no sense at all.
I'm sure you know a few pro-aborts. A few people who are in favour of abortion. I'm sure you can think of a few.
@circushead I dont know 'pro-aborts', it is not a culture I am aware of or need. As far as I know, women do not like abortion. They may at some stage need one or two. I support the fact they have a choice.
Lets see if you understand that before raising anything else.
@Salinity1001 Anyone who supports abortion is pro-abort. Why do you suppose women "don't like" abortion, as you say. Investigate that. Plumb it. Is it because, perhaps, it's wrong. It's murder. It's a cardinal moral transgression? Hmmmm...
@Salinity1001 To call supporting abortion "supporting choice" is to indulge in a Madison Avenue-spawned bit of public relations self-delusion. And I do mean Mad Ave. The substitution of the word "choice" for "abortion" originally came from a firm contracted to give the pro-abortion position a better profile. Realizing referring to the barbaric effort itself was the first step in losing sympathy, the advice was to always use "choice" in place of "abortion". To this day, you do it.
@circushead Yes I am aware of the genealogy of choice in this context. It was a knee jerk reaction to 'anti-abortion' and even that term does not encompass everybodies position on the anti-choice side. In a more profound way, prochoice does encompass everybodies position on the pro-choice side.
So are you going to answer what one would call someone who supports choice?
@Salinity1001 Yeah, 'anti-choice' makes a heckuva lot of sense. And it accounts for all those pray-ins at the Baskin Robbins ice cream shops, doesn't it. "Thirty Onewoderful is Dirty Terrible!" I think is what I hear them always chanting.
We've been debating the legitimacy of abortion for weeks here. I would suggest that you develop the intellectual honesty to stay on topic and at least refer to it by name, instead of falling back on a false definition of the debate.
@Salinity1001 "Choice" is such a broad tent, isn't it? It can refer to almost anything. If you're using the word choice in place of "abortion", then I'd call the person who made that substitution a self-deluding hack, and I'd paraphrase George Orwell in saying that those who will murder language will eventually getting around to murdering other things as well.
And then I'd request that they strive to at least have the intellectual honesty to be specific in what they're talking about.
@circushead Choice is a broad tent? Yes, even in this context but it at least is the antonym for anti-choice, which you are in favour of imposing, am I right?
I have been specific to refer to myself as pro-choice and not pro-abortion, in fact this is what this particular thread is about, just to remind you that I am not using choice as a substitution for abortion.
If you can bear it please answer what a particular supporter of choice may be referred to.
No, you are not right. When you characterize the position of those who are audacious enough assert the dignity and right to life of all kinds of humans, even the inconvenient unborn, as being against choice, you are erring. You are choosing to err. I fully support your right to choose to be completely wrong on this issue, but I will point out your error.
You are pro-abortion. You are choosing not to use the term, because you choose to be that kind of self-deluder.
@circushead I may have said it before, but you are a self-righteous clown. I have consistently stated my position but you wont accept it because you think you know better.
You dont. Just as in the same way you think you know better than pregnant women. You dont.
You seemingly cannot get past your first ignorant supposition in this conversation. All further 'debate' even, is pointless and I may as well simply stand, point and laugh at you with the other clowns on their side of the fence. Ha ha
@Salinity1001 Your own personal distaste for me is beside the point, though I would venture to say that when you're at the point of merely calling your opposition 'clowns', you've lost the argument. The only question is this: what is the unborn. Answer: it's a person. Any argument that denies that fact is wrong. Tragically wrong.
Actually, I think I have these two creeps figured out: they're against abortion because it means fewer little boys to ass-rape...
TheMercilessEye 4 days ago
@TheMercilessEye How many hours a day would you say you spend thinking about anal rape and little boys? Is it time that we perhaps came round and had a look at your hard drive?
circushead 7 hours ago
@circushead I think of it every time I see a Catholic Priest, these days, and remember what the priests were like in the parish in my home town. The scandal destroyed the congregation. Nice fail, there, clowny...
TheMercilessEye 1 hour ago
silence... They're praying for god to give them an answer.
OnlyCommunistYouKnow 5 days ago
the guy who made this video needs hes face removed and stitched to his arse cause thats what hes talkin out of
coughinupstuff 1 week ago
0:43 guy on the left: "okay" meme face
eggyolksam 1 week ago
@circushead Ha, funny. Let's say a fetus is alive. How is an abortion any worse that hunting animals? A fetus does not feel pain, or have fear. An animal feels pain and fear of death. Also, abortions are usually done because the mother cannot support a child, hunting is done for rectreation.
DejaPoo909 2 weeks ago
@DejaPoo909 We weren't discussing hunting. Hunting is not relevant to this discussion. But if you want to introduce that issue, I will give you my opinion that human life is to be defended in all its forms, even in 'imperfect' and 'inconvenient' forms. Animal life is not on the same level as human life.
circushead 1 week ago
@circushead How is a human life more valuable that an animals life? In case, you haven't noticed, the human race is fucking this planet in the ass. Also, the human population has skyrocketed in the past years. Making abortions illegal will not help this problem at all, and we will run out of resources.
DejaPoo909 1 week ago
@DejaPoo909 Our planet has an ass? I assume you mean Cleveland. The human race is fucking the planet right in the Cleveland? Okay.
We don't have an overpopulation problem. We have a distribution problem. We have a justice problem. We have a selfishness problem. Let's remove these problems, not the children. Abortion is just another symptom of our collective illness.
circushead 1 week ago
@circushead Abortions do not remove children. Fetuses are not alive, they are not people.
Oh, and "fucking this planet in the ass" is just one of my mighty metaphors, no one has a cock large enough to pleasure the earth.
DejaPoo909 1 week ago
@DejaPoo909 You and I have a very different idea of what gives pleasure.
Abortions do remove human beings. The fetus is a living human being. It cannot survive independently, but then neither can a newborn baby. If human life does not begin at the moment of conception, when does it begin? Any juncture you can name will be, in my mind, purely arbitrary. The only rational conclusion is that human life begins at the moment of conception.
circushead 1 week ago
@circushead So you think that a sperm cell combined with an egg cell is human life? Sorry, but that is WRONG! Try again!
DejaPoo909 1 week ago
@DejaPoo909 Why yes, I do believe that when a sperm combines with an egg, human life is the result. Where do you believe you came from, the cabbage patch?
Again, if human life does not begin at the moment of conception, when does it begin? Any juncture you pick will be purely arbitrary. The only rational and biologically consistent answer you can make is 'Yes, human life does begin at the moment of conception."
And that make abortion the taking of a human life.
Thus endeth the argument.
circushead 1 week ago
@circushead no its not. human life starts at birth. that is fine line. embrio is not human being. its patch of cells. it is no more "human" then egg and sperm. we dont consider death as person do we? human nobady is pro abortion. when an fetus has bechome developed enugh to survive outside of womb, its human, before this, it is not able to support it self. if mother is in danger, then abortion is gonna save more lives. so human life beggins when the baby is born. theres you awnser.
gethsoftware 1 week ago
@gethsoftware I want you to be perfectly honest with me. Did your cat write that?
circushead 1 week ago
@circushead
"Again, if human life does not begin at the moment of conception, when does it begin?"
When the heart begins to beat [in the mothers womb] thats when life begins. The child cannot support itself without the mother feeding it and it would die without the mother feeding herself. Thus the child is in no mans land
devante11 8 hours ago
@devante11 A newborn baby cannot survive without its mother feeding it, and its heart has been beating for several months, so your definition of when life begins fails. And in any case, abortions happen after that time, so I assume you believe by your own definition of when life begins that abortion is murder.
I agree with you that the unborn child is in "no mans land". Excellent observation! So let's not allow any man, or woman, to artificially end that pregnancy.
circushead 7 hours ago
These men worship the holy fetus.Women dying means nothing to them. Eves curse,wages of sin,ect.
dianalee84 2 weeks ago
Three things:
First off, one of the founders of NARAL said that the illegal abortion death statistic was exaggerated. Second, it's actually reducing the number of deaths? Even if you take the 5,000-10,000 deaths statistic to be correct, 3,500 unborn children are killed every day by abortion. So, no, it's not saving more lives. Third, would we legalize rape to make it safer for the rapist? Just because something would be safer legal doesn't mean that we ought to enable it.
americanidolgal 2 weeks ago
@americanidolgal I honestly am stunned by the sheer idiocy of your comment.
"... would we legalize rape to make it safer for the rapist? Just because something would be safer legal doesn't mean that we ought to enable it."
Alecalisk 2 weeks ago
@Alecalisk Would you explain to me why that's idiotic?
americanidolgal 2 weeks ago
@americanidolgal He's not equipped to argue, only to express outrage that anyone deviates from the position he assumed was unassailable. Pity he can't feel outrage over something, like abortion, that truly calls for it.
circushead 2 weeks ago
@americanidolgal You are comparing abortion with the legalisation of rape
Alecalisk 2 weeks ago
@Alecalisk Abortion is murder. Rape is rape. Both are crimes.
circushead 2 weeks ago
@circushead No, abortion is not murder.
The god damn fetus cant even feel pain nor can it think
Alecalisk 2 weeks ago
@Alecalisk You can't think, or punctuate sentences with periods, but I still wouldn't say it's alright to kill you.
If human life does not begin at the moment of conception, pray tell when does it begin?
circushead 2 weeks ago
@circushead
The fetus is human alright, but with no brain to think does it really matter? It cannot feel pain or even think. Wouldn't suprise me if you didn't want people to masturbate because they were killing semen. The only reason we live is to go to heaven right? Wouldn't an aborted fetus go to heaven then? Wouldn't we be doing "them" a favor by killing them before they are thrown into arms of parents who, for some reason, are unfit to take care of them or dont even want a child
Alecalisk 2 weeks ago
@Alecalisk You haven't attempted to answer my question, "If human life does not begin at the moment of conception, when does it begin?"
Q: "Wouldn't we be doing "them" a favor by killing them before they are thrown into arms of parents who, for some reason, are unfit to take care of them or dont even want a child"
A: Every single child is wanted, if not by its natural parents, then by people on adoption waiting lists.
Should 5-year olds with poor or indifferent parents be offed, too?
circushead 2 weeks ago
@circushead Dude, you havn't answered a single question from me...
A fetus is a human life, yes.
Do you honestly think, that of all the 100,000+ abortions worldwide there are people willing to adopt them? And where would all those children stay?
Now you answer my question; would you allow for a pregnant women to abort her fetus if her having the child could lead to her death?
You can't compare 5-year olds with a FETUS, so no
Alecalisk 2 weeks ago
@Alecalisk If a fetus is human life, then abortion is murder. That is what you countenance. That is what you are. Dude.
There are more couples waiting to adopt children than there are children to adopt. Ask at your local adoption agency.
Compare a 5-year old with a fetus? Yes I can. They are both human beings at different stages of development.
If a pregnant woman's life is threatened by her pregnancy, then everything possible should be done to preserve the lives of both mother and child.
circushead 2 weeks ago
@circushead A fetus is not a person. It is just a clump of cells, like a tumor.
DejaPoo909 2 weeks ago
@DejaPoo909 That's a reeaaalllly poor grasp of biology you've got their, chippy. The real abortion in question has been your education. Any way you can sue the state responsible for that particular abomination?
circushead 2 weeks ago
@circushead Again, you didnt answer my question, I asked you if it would be accepted by you for the woman to abort the fetus if she would die giving birth to it
Anyways, I'm gonna go ahead and end this discussion here.
I respect your opinion, but I dont agree with you
Alecalisk 1 week ago
@Alecalisk The life of the mother and that of the child are equally valuable and everything should be done to preserve both.
circushead 1 week ago
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@circushead Once AGAIN you failed to answer my question.
Would it be accepted by you for the woman to abort the fetus if she would DIE giving birth to it. YES or NO.
You are basically saying that a 10~ gram fetus with no brain is as valuable as a woman with memories, dreams, desires and possibly friends and family
Alecalisk 1 week ago
I wouldn't say anything to you either.
poolshank 3 weeks ago
Lol They made you look like a retard haha
tac0paco 1 month ago
@tac0paco he made them look retarded, because like usual they know fucking nothing about what they are protesting against.
ftwuh 3 weeks ago
He looks like he wants to bang you.
redwoodmountianwitch 1 month ago
Theirs is not "to wonder why"
Theirs is just "to do or die" lol.
stratocaster539 1 month ago
@stratocaster539 On the contrary, they've wondered why. Why is their a holocaust of the unborn. Why do we put our future to death. And they've decided it's wrong.
circushead 1 month ago
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It's woman's right to choose. Until they're born they're not people yet and women shouldn't bring children into the world unless they are ready . 25,000 people die from HUNGER daily. Does anyone seem to care about them?Idiots think a fetus is more important than a human that's already been born.Even if abortions are stopped people will still get them. Wouldn't you rather they get safe, legal ones? It's like saying that it's wrong for women to menstruate cause they just "killed" a potential baby
ChrisInRealLife0707 1 month ago
5-10,000 women a year died from complications brought on by illegal abortion procedures prior to Roe v. Wade. His evidence for that is WHAT exactly? Perhaps they shouldn't have had those abortions in the first place. You know how many BABIES die each year from abortion? A LOT MORE than 5-10,000. And how many women suffer serious/fatal ailments now after LEGAL abortions? I can about GUARANTEE you this guy can't answer that. Being gay & vegan doesn't make it mandatory to pick the WRONG side, dude.
FlyUnicornsFly 2 months ago
@FlyUnicornsFly Abortion prevents babies, that is what it is for.
If you are interested in safety approx. 550 US women die from childbirth annually prior during or just after the event and there are less than five abortion deaths annually.
So given a pregnancy in question the safest option is abortion.
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001, you were civil in replying to me. I'm not used to that from pro-choice people, so it was a pleasant surprise. That being said, abortion does NOT prevent babies, only avoiding getting pregnant does that. Termination of a pregnancy is TERMINATION of a baby. Your "5" annual abortion-related deaths is no more dependable a stat than the 5-10,000 deaths from illegal abortions & doesn't account for non-immediate deaths/issues re. mental health/suicide/breast cancer/others.
FlyUnicornsFly 2 months ago
@FlyUnicornsFly A baby is from birth to one year old. It might well be more specific if we refer to the proper terms in this context to try and remove the obvious connotations of real murder of children, which no body wants to do.
Try looking up CDC abortion death figures in the US. for 2006 and '07 there were 5 or 6 from memory, and about 1.2 million abortions. About 3.5% of mental health instability is attributable to abortion with NO breast cancer. Maternal deaths are about 550 per year.
BabiesKillMothers 2 months ago
@BabiesKillMothers - weak argument, sickening user name. Your "facts" are all incomplete or outright wrong.
A baby's a baby during pregnancy & NO SCIENCE, including medical science, even attempts to argue otherwise. The facts are what they are, not what you wish them to be.
With the "procedure" having been legal for only 4 decades, info on health risks is still being compiled, but it exists & the breast cancer risk is very real.
No body is a compound word (i.e. no space)
FlyUnicornsFly 2 months ago
@FlyUnicornsFly Sorry I was logged into another user name, quite apt and used because it is truer than 'abortion kills babies'. (Somebody elses)
You will find my figures are accurate, and if something does not turn up after 40 years, it probably isn't going to, NO recent scientific unbiased studies or papers have seen a connection between abortion and breast cancer.
Most western countries have the same abortion safety, Australia has had 3 Abortion deaths in 11 years and about 900,000 abortions
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001, links between abortion/breast cancer have been there as long as modern medicine. Just googled it again & the only site denying it was something called the "prochoiceactionnetwork"- hardly an objective source. I'll trust Johns Hopkins, USC, Penn & other med schools more than that site, thanks. Since 2009, research in China, Turkey, U.S., Sri Lanka, elsewhere has reaffirmed the abortion/breast cancer risk.
The tone of certitude in your post isn't supported by facts.
FlyUnicornsFly 2 months ago
@FlyUnicornsFly The only 'link' is that women who do not breast feed have a greater risk of breast cancer than those who do breast feed, for whatever reason. Abortion per se has nothing to do with it.
Read 'Abortion in Womens Lives' page 22 on..
Perhaps you could forward your science paper references in a p.m.?
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001, I rarely disregard the 500-character limit, but 1 or 2 things I didn't get to last time.
You can't make a claim like there being only 3 abortion-related deaths (of would-be MOTHERS) when effects like breast cancer/mental illness take years to manifest & studies are ongoing.
You said that any medical concerns would already be evident after 40 years. Given that it took modern humans 35,000 years just to learn that micro-organisms could kill them, I kinda doubt it!
FlyUnicornsFly 2 months ago
@FlyUnicornsFly Since abortion related deaths are as rare as hens teeth, (single figures) and maternal deaths (usually within pregnancy to six weeks after birth if relevant) are in the hundreds for whichever Western country you care to name, there is no contest between which is the safer.
Since the worlds TOTAL knowledge is doubling every ten years or so presently your puzzling 35,000 years is irrelevant.
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001, it's no fun admitting you've lost a debate but you might consider it at this point.
"Abortion in Women's Lives" > from Guttmacher Institute affiliated w. (drum roll) Planned Parenthood. NON-IMPARTIAL SOURCE, therefore useless.
Not all abortion-related deaths are as straightforward as have-procedure-die-within-days, or even possible to catalogue as yet. Thought I'd been clear on that.
Studies that show abortion/cancer link are so numerous even YOU can find them.
FlyUnicornsFly 2 months ago
@FlyUnicornsFly Guttmacher and PP are NON profit making and the study Principle is Heather Boonstra, you could look her up too and other reports she has written. I just have.
One does not lose a debate when one has simply shown facts to prove ones point. One either relies on facts for ones opinion or one is ignorant or ignores the facts for ones opinion. I will certainly concede a point if it is shown to be true.
Since Guttmacher simply work to improve womens lives I wont fault them for that.
Salinity1001 2 months ago
What do you say in the face of murder? What shall I say when the Nazi's come to murder you? Perhaps nothing? You figure it out, Indefinite Detention Sinner.
DuncanDonuts3 2 months ago
A. The priests are NOT protesting... they are praying.
B. What you claim to be "confronting" comes across as pure ignorance.
reneeville 2 months ago
These apes should be the OTHER side of the wire.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin You're a dim-witted thug. You speak of prison camps for Catholic Priests. You call them subhuman. You're a dim-witted nazi thug.
circushead 2 months ago
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@circushead 'You're a dim-witted thug. You speak of prison camps for Catholic Priests. You call them subhuman. You're a dim-witted nazi thug.'
Really? Where was this then? Dim witted eh? Shall we compare wits, IQ's, jokes, or science? Your choice mz liar..
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
God bless those priest! they were smart not to talk to ur ignorant man!
mtp0563058 2 months ago
If a woman dies during an abortion procedure, then they consider it an abortion related death. If she dies a few hours or even a few days after the procedure, NARAL will never admit it was an abortion related death. Therefore once she leave the clinic, NARAL will never blame the abortion clinic.
mjt19741 2 months ago
@mjt19741 How do you know what you have posted is true? Maybe you should read the CDC US figures.
According to CDC approximately 500 - 600 women die from Childbirth or related complications every year, and approx. 5 die from abortion and its possible complications.
Still quite low from about 4 million pregnancies, but an absolute risk that abortion is 100 times safer than childbirth in the US or Western world..
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin @mjt19741 Every abortion eradicates the baby's life. When a woman dies, on the table, or out back in the dumpster, or at home later on, the abortionists call that 'gravy'.
circushead 2 months ago
What these priests are doing is called 'bearing silent witness' to the horror of abortion. Cammy the camera man has approached them with some absurd observations about abortion being
'safe'. To their eternal credit, the priests abstain from laughing in Cammy's face, and they continue their silent witness to the truth.
Good for them. God Bless America.
circushead 2 months ago
abortion is a non-issue. stay out of other people's lives and mind your own business. not everyone believes in your imaginary jewish zombie friend, and we're all frankly pretty tired of hearing how a bunch of wackos who can't even develop their own sense of morals without having a bunch of shit crammed down their throats try to tell us that they know what's best for the world
TheRuffWoof 2 months ago
@TheRuffWoof Authentic Roman Catholics and other types of Christians disturb you because they stand up for life. This obviously tweaks some sliver of your conscience. May you one day see the light of truth and act upon it.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead they also only care about the baby BEFORE it's been born. once it's out, it's officially YOUR problem. no matter if you wanted the abortion because you can't afford to feed and clothe it, or aren't mentally fit to care for it, YOU had sex and YOU have to deal with it. this idea made sense before the technology to euthanize unwanted children came about. now we don't have to live with mistakes like you if we don't want to
TheRuffWoof 2 months ago
@TheRuffWoof Who do you mean by 'they'? Agencies of the Catholic Church care for fully one half of all AIDS patients in Africa. Catholic children's aid cares for hundreds of thousands of children in North America. So if you mean that these priests don't care about children after they're born, you are most assuredly and demonstrably wrong.
Further you agree that the unborn children, but they must be 'euthanized' if their parents are poor. What a monster you are.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead the same catholic agencies that claim to be taking care of AIDS also advocate against safe sex and condom use, so they're as much a part of the problem as the solution where AIDS is concerned. I don't think that molesting children counts as "caring" for them. I did not say that children "must" be euthanized if the parents are poor. it is up to the parents of the unborn child what they do, and them only. not your family, not your problem. move the fuck on
TheRuffWoof 2 months ago
@TheRuffWoof They don't 'claim' to take care of 1 in 2 AIDS patients in Africa. They do so. It's a statistical fact. The Catholic Church advocates chastity and monogamy. They do not worship the condom, as you do. That is their prerogative.
To suggest that child molestation is part of the Catholic child aid shows you are not to be taken seriously.
Where murder of children, which you have acknowledged the unborn are, is concerned, it is not a simple mater of discretion. I will not move on.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead condoms prevent the spread of AIDS, which many africans are born with. to imply that priests DON'T molest children shows that you are ignorant of hundreds of court-proven cases of molestation. people who want or need abortions get them regardless of whether or not there are clinics available. they could die doing it in an unsafe place. please consider the health of presently living people with bigger decisions to make than "should I waste my day pushing my religion on people?"
TheRuffWoof 2 months ago
@TheRuffWoof Child molestation is a societal evil, but people like you are eager to attribute it only to the Catholic Church. It happens with sickening regularity to children in the care of non-religious NGOs, yet you would NEVER speak of those organizations as you speak of the Church, because you are a bigot. There's no such thing as a safe abortion. It murders the child and physically and psychologically maims the mother.
Condoms prevent AIDS. According to recent history, not so much.
circushead 2 months ago
@TheRuffWoof I'm not the least bit interested in pushing my religion on anyone. I'm interested in bearing witness the the dignity and right to life of everyone, the sick, the imperfect, and yes, even the poor and the inconvenient unborn.
I'm also interested, as you can clearly read, in refuting the lies of those, like you, who are snug in the cold embrace of the culture of death, who cry out for more human sacrifice, as though your hunger will ever be sated.
Please change your heart. Thanks.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead The 'unborn' by definition are not part of the community. They are potential people like the thousands of eggs in a female and billions of sperm in any male.
The important thing in my view is that a girl or woman, decides to give birth to a new human because only she can decide from her experience if the birth is going to benefit her or the world in a positive way.
If not, then she , being the giver of life can withdraw it for another time maybe, when conditions are better.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin You're scientifically illiterate, which is a shame. Can a female's egg become a human by itself? No. Will a male's sperm ever grow to a fully grown human on its own? Again, no. Will the unborn, if left unaborted, become adult humans? Yes. You and I are the physical evidence. There's the difference.
If your mother decides to kill you today, since she gave birth to you, is that okay with you? Why or why not?
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead If eggs and sperm are not potential embryos, what are they?
When I was in the womb I would have no choice in any matter of life or death, none, I would not be aware of anything, even till birth a fetus brain is enveloped with natural anaesthetic adenosine, all mammals are the same.
You seem to be projecting your persona into that of a mindless fetus, which the fetus is impossible to process.
Women are not governed by fate or what others want when they dont have to be.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin What I wrote was that eggs and sperm cannot grow by themselves into adult humans. This makes them unlike unborn children, which will, and makes the comparison you made earlier invalid, and the work of a biological illiterate.
"Mindless fetus"? On the contrary, the fetal brain sends waves registered on the EEG at less than 12 weeks old.
You are either tragically misinformed, or you ignore science for reasons of politics. Perhaps you're a combination of these things.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead But a fetus is a potential person, obviously there is a difference between gametes and embryo/fetuses, but neither are people, babies or children.
The brain may be generating waves from the start, but so does the brain of a fish,
The human body to brain circuits are not in place before 24 weeks so even without adenosine nothing could register. It is certainly mindless and will-less. All movement is spontaneous spinal cord reflex.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin A fetus is a person at an earlier state of development than a newborn, which is at an earlier state than a toddler, which is at an earlier state than a pre-schooler, etc. You wrote that a sperm or an egg is no different than a fetus, and there you were stunningly, stupidly wrong. You referred to the 'brainless fetus'. I pointed out how wrong you were, you mention fish.
You'd better be careful, if sentience is your benchmark, you're close to proving yourself to be not human.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead I see you are unable to to read things without jumping to wrong conclusions, or even lying about what was written.
I wrote that sperm,eggs and embryo/fetuses are all potential people, and people are born as independent conscious beings, there are no people in wombs.
I have never referred to a 'brainless fetus', thats anencephaly, though the fetus is mindless until its first consciousness kicks in at birth.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin I have lied about nothing you have written. I have only used your own words to show you how biologically illiterate you are.
"...the fetus is mindless until its first consciousness kicks in at birth."
What a convenient, unscientific, arbitrary definition of life that is. But of course it's one any fascist with a blood lust for innocent lives has to make. Too bad it doesn't cut the, ahem, mustard.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead ' I have lied about nothing you have written. I have only used your own words to show you how biologically illiterate you are.'
Lets see, copying my words does not actually show anyone how 'biologically illiterate' I am. The reverse if anything.
Please provide scientific evidence to show how biologically literate you are and proves your claim. So far, it doesn't look good for you.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin Each time you have tried to support your pro-abortion argument by citing biology, you have shown yourself to be laughably ignorant.
No one who exposes himself to the biological facts with regard to gestation can countenance abortion, because it is the slaughter of innocent lives.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead You have not countenanced anything I have stated with any facts, Until you do you are all BULLSHIT.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin I'll ask you: if life doesn't begin at conception, WHEN does it begin.
Previously you wrote that consciousness 'kicks in' at birth. This is an embarrassingly lame effort, since children are born at various junctures post-conception, and to say that life begins at such an arbitrary and varying time just makes no sense.
Would you like to try again, and this time perhaps not shit your pants so badly, you mouth-breathing fascist dolt?
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead ' I'll ask you: if life doesn't begin at conception, WHEN does it begin." - Try reading my previous reply on the subject, it was adequately comprehensive for you.
When you draw breath from being mind numbingly stupid give scientific evidence when consciousness kicks in.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin You have not answered my question, except to say that "consciousness kicks in" when the baby is birthed.
This is rubbish, scientifically speaking.
Would you like to try again, or is that going to be your final answer?
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Scientifically speaking that is my final answer, i.e. consciousness kick in when the baby is birthed.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin So life begins whenever that baby happens to be born, even though that can vary by hours, days, weeks, and even months. There is NO biological difference between a baby in the womb 24 hours before its birth and a newborn baby, but you have arbitrarily declared that life begins only when the baby clears the vagina.
That's when consciousness "kicks in" as you so scientifically put it.
Makes no sense at all.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead You can declare your ignorance of biological facts all you like here, or you can post biological facts, up to you.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin Laughable. You have nothing.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Ha ha You have finally read up something and cannot bear to admit I'm right.
Goose.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin Not at all. I believe that life begins at conception. Science is on my side. You're just a dumb thug who wishes to be part of a mob that crushes the powerless. That's the basis of your position. You have no science to support you. None. You're just a weak conformist going with the flow, and every time you try to make an argument, you embarrass yourself.
You have no science to support you, and you're not bright enough to bullshit. Loser.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Read this pdf, you will know as much as anybody, almost, on the planet. RCOG Fetal Awareness Mar 2010
Extract
After 24 weeks, it is difficult to say that the fetus experiences pain because this, like all other
experiences, develops postnatally along with memory and other learned behaviours. In addition, increasing evidence suggests that the fetus never enters a state of wakefulness inside the womb. The placenta produces chemicals that suppress nervous system activity and awareness.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin I'll never agree with you that life doesn't begin until a person is listed in the phone book, you heartless murder-monger.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead When you know what the difference is between words like life, and a life or ones life, all will be revealed.
Meanwhile your bombastic opprobrium tending to absolute lies does you no credit at all.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin I guess you're reaching for "one's life" there, Captain Shitpants? Glad to see you've located your thesaurus, though. Look up 'heartless', you'll find 36 words and a fairly good likeness of you, Wall Street Journal style.
To say that an unborn has life, but is not a life only proves that you need desperately to get a life.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead 'Makes no sense at all.' N.B. continued, I have not 'arbitrarily' declared when life begins when the baby fetus clears the vagina. (stop lying) I took pains to point out previously that life began billions of years ago, human life began with the first Homo Sapiens, fetal life begins after embryological life and a persons life begins at birth. 'A life' has biographical notes, life or death is a biological fact.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin You have most certainly arbitrarily declared that consciousness "kicks in" (HA HA HA YOU'RE SUCH A MORON!) only at birth, whenever birth happens, and that is when life begins. That is what you wrote. That's the best you can do. You're wrong.
A life has biographical notes?
Holy cow! Are you suggesting that a person isn't a person until they're featured on 'Biography'. My God you're stupid!
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Oh dear, I am trying to discuss a sensitive subject with with someone who cannot see any point except their own cartoon simple, parrot speak.
Dont you know the difference between life and a life? Ans. No. Ha ha ha. Who is a 'moron' now? Goose.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin No, I do not know the difference between 'life' and 'a life'. There is no difference, except to heartless mass murder apologist losers.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Try a simple dictionary and find out what the fuss is all about.
You could try hubris too.
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001 What word would you like me to look up for you, you sanctimonious prat.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Ha ha Salinity has the right idea. Dictionaries can be a valuable aid to discovering what people are talking about. Coupled with the realisation that others may have a different point of view, measured and compassionate but with a different focus.
Abortion has never been murder even before R v W, but the best mothers are volunteers for the job, like most vocations.
MustardMcPurlin 2 months ago
@MustardMcPurlin I understand the concept that others have points of view that differ from mine. I respect the dignity of all kinds of human life: even the imperfect and the inconvenient. Others don't. I have a word for them. That word is 'wrong'. Tragically so. I don't believe in punishing the unborn with capital punishment for the crime of having parents seemingly incapable of thinking ahead.
I'm a guy who wouldn't have okayed the slaughtering of Steve Jobs in the womb.
Who're you, fuckface?
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Oh, Rydell was right, you are a bloke, a sanctimonious, (thats you not me), know-all without a womb, who wants to tell women with a womb, what they should do with it.
When the red mist falls from your eyes, and you get over your womb envy, realise what is wrong in your life, is not necessarily wrong in others. This projection of your persona into a mindless fetus is pointless, superstition based even though abortion is but one instinct of a woman unwillingly pregnant.
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001 Nicely done. There's more parlour room psychology in that single post than I see in an entire season of Law and Order.
Please learn to respect all kinds of human life. The old, the infirm, the imperfect, the less than convenient, heck, maybe even those unfortunate enough to be in the first nine months of their development toward what you and I both are right now.
Have a heart, why don't you? For these little innocents, half of whom will grow up to be women with wombs, even.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Hm. I can piss you off to no end- aborted at 14, don't regret it. I'm actually glad I made that choice- b/c now I'm educated, married, and have a REAL son to care for. I'm still pro-choice lol. AND pregnant w/ my second! Congratulate me- and feel free to send your condolences to my future son or daughter.. BTW I have a question- if you saw a pregnant lady walking into an abortion clinic, how hard, honestly would you try to stop her? If it REALLY is MURDER and all, -c
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
-c and you care SO much, what would you do to stop that BABY from getting MURDERED? I mean, if I saw someone about to shoot/kill an actual born baby, I'd put myself between the kid and the gun, w/o a second thought. I'd do that for anyone about to get heartlessly murdered.. and/or 86 the fucker trying to do the killing.. why don't you guys ever show the same open desperation and fight? Why not kill more abobo docs, blow up more clinics, or 86 post-abortive women like me? Why -c
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
-c don't you guys ever SHOW how much you care? All you do is bitch, whine, and show stupid pictures and pray to a nonexistant deity based off of homophobia, slavery, and rape-marriage.. I'd go out and DO somehting, lol- but your kind enver does, and on the off-chance one of you DOES 'fight' for the fetuses, you go to prison for REAL murder- and the rest of you guys either say you don't care THAT much, or you sit&cheer about domestic terrorism.. you're swiss cheese, bro- give up.
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
@ryddelwearsahat No truly pro-life person would countenance the murder of anyone, because, as your mother probably told you, two wrongs don't make a right.
circushead 2 months ago
Well, in a nutshell, the reason we don't blow up abortuaries, murder the hack doctors who commit the abortions, and murder the other victims of abortion, women like you who have them, is that we stand for life. Not death.
To those who see nothing wrong with abortion, this must seem strange. But try to see the world from our point of view. To us, unlike to you, killing a person doesn't solve anything.
Changing hearts is the way to go. And forgiveness, without which there is no future.
circushead 2 months ago
@ryddelwearsahat You have a REAL son now. Not like that other one. I'm sorry about your pain and anger. I sincerely hope you heal one day.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead I have respect for all life, thanks for the encouragement though. So much so that I support women in their endeavours to control their surprisingly trigger-happy procreation, if inopportune, before it gets too late and inhumane. Thankfully we can do that presently without waiting till birth and the cliff drop or abandonment in the forest method like the old days.
The womans doctor and herself are the only ones responsible, ultimately it is her call, there is no point interfering.
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001 Abortion is inhumane no matter what month it's done in. It's the ultimate inhumanity. However you seem to be arguing it gets MORE inhumane the longer the pregnancy goes on. This makes no more biological sense than saying a woman is "a little bit pregnant". Do you think before you write?
Not interfering in another's life is an excellent principle. I agree wholeheartedly with it. That's why I oppose anyone's 'right' to interfere in the life of an unborn child. Murder is not a right.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Actually, if you consider defending an innocent life by killing a would-be criminal attacker to be murder, you're an idiot. There's no nice way to wiggle around that- and your attempting to avoid that point or nicen up your cowardice in shoddy word play shows how hypocritical YOU are in your supposed valuing of a fetus's life... apparently it ISN'T equal in value to a born child- /c we BOTH know that unless you lack a human soul, we'd BOTH 86 a motherfucker if we -c
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
-c saw someone about to kill an ACTUAL child, b/c there IS a difference.. and unless you are a coward or just a fucking scumbag, you throw everything out the window to protect a fucking kid in the face of danger.. I know i sure as hell would- if you won't, then that is YOUR problem.. So, since a fetus is NOT, apparently, worth the effort you'd normally expend on a born child, you obviously agree w/ me, atleast to SOME extent, that it's not worth the effort beyond catcalls and -c
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
-c picketing- in other words.. pretending to give a shit when in fact, you're just doing it for show. Sometimes you HAVE to kill- denying that is to deny natural human life and world fucking history, point-blanc. Life-or-death situations arise every day, all around the world- there are evil fucks out there.. maybe you've lived a shallow, sheltered life where you never had to escalate beyond petty words.. but in the real world, words don't stop bullets or stop rapes or stop -c
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
-c school shootings, or stop suicide bombers, or stop pedophiles.. BULLETS stop violent, uncontrollable and dangerous, guiltless criminals.. BULLETS save the lives of hostages. And bullets can often save the life of a child caught in a VERY shit situation. People that try it your way end up dead or costing the lives of countless innocents, for the sake of the 'soul' of one soul-LESS criminal on a rampage.. So my point still stands. Either you're a moron, a coward, or delusional.
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
@ryddelwearsahat That was far too much writing from you. You should consider applying the same editing tendencies you've applied to your offspring to your writing.
But, that aside, to be pro-life is to assert the dignity and legitimacy of all kinds of life, including that of the unborn child. If I were to become a mass murderer in the name of that cause, or if I were to support someone who did, I would be morally inconsistent.
In short, murder is not the answer. Not for you. Not for me.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead ...on deaf ears over here. Actually, if you valued a fetus the same as you did a real child, saving it from being brutally butchered to pieces would mean a lot more- as it obviously doesn't, why not just mind your own business? When YOU get pregnant and have to choose between an embryo and your entire future, THEN you can make decisions regarding your OWN body and future.. but not mine.. same as I have no right, and WANT no right, over YOUR body, sex life, future, ect..
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
@ryddelwearsahat You don't want anyone to have control over your body and your fate. Yet you refused to extend the same consideration to your own child. Your own real child. The first one. The one you murdered.
I couldn't agree more that you're deaf, though.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Sorry, but it's only a potentiality until born.. I did not ahve the option of adoption, anyway.. atleast, not w/o suiciding and liekly ruining the 'wodnerful life' I'd have sacrificed myself for by sending it into the same hell-hole I was just in. Seriously.. it's like you know everyone, everywhere, inside&out, how they think/feel and just.. you're not god.. give people the benefit of the doubt and trust them when it comes to decisions like birth. You DON'T know me.
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
-c You don't know why i did what i did any more than you can speculate about every other woman.. I could tell you my physical life depended on it, and even that wouldn't matter.. b/c all you want to see or hear is whatever you can use to make it 'okay' for you to judge people and believe what you want.. it's like you WANT to be negative, and it's like you WANT women to be 'evil' or whatever.. shouldn't you rather be happy it's not a baby, it's not murder, and that murder is -c
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
-c in fact NOT being committed? If I actually took the time to provide you w/ links supporting what I've said thus far about fetal brain development- how a fetus can't think or feel and thus not be a person, only a potential person.. if I took the time to explain it all in excruciating detail, would you even actually read it? Or just play word games, insult me, and repeat yourself like a parrot? Or would you instead just call me a liar?
Your kind never makes an effort to LEARN.
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
@ryddelwearsahat I don't believe it's me you're trying in vain to convince.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead You're online when I am! YAAY~
No, YOUR opinion doesn't really matter to me.. this is just to waste time in-between bouts of doing stuff IRL. I have free time- it's fun!
..I do this for other people, to help them and defend them.. every now&then I help someone, change their mind, or even give some well-needed advice and change someone's life.. I don't ever want someone to experience what I did just to make someone ELSE happy.. I have first-hand experience in YOUR game.
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
-c Not everyone regrets their abortions or are damaged by it.. that is a serious myth. I'm healthy, happy, and fine.. and the best any of your kind can do is 'go 'nuh uh youre disagreeing w/ me so that makes me right' or whatever.. The only people allowed to have a voice or know any facts are the ones YOUR kind approves of.. pitiful.. like the nazi party. Sorry, but this isn't about the fetus or embryo- this is about the woman carrying it and how she is affected.. REAL people.
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
@ryddelwearsahat Yeah, the nazi party. Way to keep it on topic, idiot.
The question of abortion is ALL about the unborn child. The central question is this: what is it? What is the unborn?
The answer you have to that question determines which side you're on.
If you believe, as I do, that human life begins at conception, you have no choice, morally, than to speak up for those who cannot.
If you don't believe that human life begins at conception, then when does it begin?
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Actually, I already explained this one- human tissue does not equal a person. I don't CARE that the tissue is human, or living.. I care whether or not it is a person, and what the price for it's survival is- if it comes at the cost of someone who already exists, it is pretty much worthless unless the person who it is taking from is WILLING to give.. otherwise, it is barbarism and slavery and rape to force someone to sacrifice themselves for a potential.
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
@ryddelwearsahat You've missed my point. I don't believe it's me you're trying to convince that unborn children aren't really alive. I think it's yourself you're trying, in vain, to convince.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead ...yeah.. i was wondering if you were going to be like the other puppets and crack out THAT overused fool's gold piece.. heard it, nope, try again- though, like I've already predicted- you'll likely just tell me I'm disagreeing w/ you b/c you're right and I'm in denial, right?
..b/c apparently that makes it easier for YOU to feel like you're morally superior to me, now that you've been called out for deliberately seeking reasons to hate.. I've seen it before, clone.
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
@ryddelwearsahat I'm sure you've heard it before. It's patently obvious in nearly every sentence you write. That's why people bring it up when they communicate with you. Because they can see it. Because it's true.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Actually, it isn't.. but believe what you want- you'll go on doing so for YOUR benefit, for YOUR ego, and for your need to control.. seeing as how us women apparently can't think or feel for ourselves.. I need someone else to tell me what I feel, right?
..you are a puppet like the rest- thank you for proving me exactly right.. you are pitifully predictable- and are the main reason I am proud to be pro-choice..
I'm not allowed to have my own opinions or emotions? Nice.
ryddelwearsahat 2 months ago
@ryddelwearsahat You mean you're pro-abortion, right?
circushead 2 months ago
@ryddelwearsahat If I didn't like women, I'd support abortion. Half of it's child victims are female, and the mother is damaged in ways unimaginable.
circushead 2 months ago
@ryddelwearsahat Why not give unborn children the benefit of the doubt? Don't they deserve it?
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Now you have all the relevant facts at your fingertips there is no need to exaggerate or tell untruths. You are still jumping wildly to inaccurate conclusions about pro-choice though.
I have mentioned before that abortion is always humane and it is. It would be inhumane to cliff drop a new-born or abandon one in the forest, remember? I dont think you read very well before you write. Pay attention!
The female with a fetus equivalent of a sea cucumber has every right to terminate.
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001 Really? So all those aborted babies would grow up to sea cucumbers. Well, I bow to you knowledge, Dean of Science.
Again, I've nothing against choice. I'm in favour of salad bars. I just hate abortion. It's a scourge.
I think, if I may, the problem with pro-aborts such as yourself is that they get lazy. They require their moral, grown up opponents be as silent as in the in utero victims of their sacrament. When people like me turn out to be capable of vigour, you fold.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Well thank you, but why the stupid statement?
Btw body is 'pro abort'. Thats just another stupid label used by people who hate women having a choice with their own destinies.
If 'holy' men were able to get unwillingly pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament of that I am sure.
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001
So an unborn human child will grow into a sea cucumber, idiot?
Pro-abort. Short for pro-abortion. It's what a person in favour of abortion is. It's an accurate description, unlike 'pro-choice' which is an exercise in self-delusion engaged in by people who can't even say the word describing what they promote.
I don't hate women. If I hated women, I'd support abortion. How do you feel about sex selection abortion in India and China? Still pro-choice, idiot? Then you hate women.
circushead 2 months ago
Your powers of comprehension remain dismal. I would excuse it if English was not your second language, but it looks like it isn't, I conclude you are full of your own shit so much you are unable to comprehend any point but your own..
I dont know any 'pro-abort's what would be the point of that? Unless they were referring specifically to some unwanted genetic malfunction.
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001 My comprehension of English is fine. You equated the unborn human child with a sea cucumber. You called it "the equivalent of a sea cucumber". Unborn child = sea cucumber. That's you talking. You make no sense at all.
I'm sure you know a few pro-aborts. A few people who are in favour of abortion. I'm sure you can think of a few.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead I dont know 'pro-aborts', it is not a culture I am aware of or need. As far as I know, women do not like abortion. They may at some stage need one or two. I support the fact they have a choice.
Lets see if you understand that before raising anything else.
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001 Anyone who supports abortion is pro-abort. Why do you suppose women "don't like" abortion, as you say. Investigate that. Plumb it. Is it because, perhaps, it's wrong. It's murder. It's a cardinal moral transgression? Hmmmm...
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead 'Anyone who supports abortion is pro-abort'.
So what do you call some-one who supports choice?
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001 No answer, came the reply..
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001 You are prochoice, pro the choice to kill which ismn`t a choice!!!!!!!!
freewilllover 2 months ago
@freewilllover I am for the choice to terminate a pregnancy, or to birth a pregnancy.
Strange lad, your name says you love free will, then you say I am prochoice, then you say I dont have a choice.
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001 I support te choices you make for yourself not others, abortions is murdering a child how can you support that?????
freewilllover 2 months ago
@Salinity1001 To call supporting abortion "supporting choice" is to indulge in a Madison Avenue-spawned bit of public relations self-delusion. And I do mean Mad Ave. The substitution of the word "choice" for "abortion" originally came from a firm contracted to give the pro-abortion position a better profile. Realizing referring to the barbaric effort itself was the first step in losing sympathy, the advice was to always use "choice" in place of "abortion". To this day, you do it.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Yes I am aware of the genealogy of choice in this context. It was a knee jerk reaction to 'anti-abortion' and even that term does not encompass everybodies position on the anti-choice side. In a more profound way, prochoice does encompass everybodies position on the pro-choice side.
So are you going to answer what one would call someone who supports choice?
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001 Yeah, 'anti-choice' makes a heckuva lot of sense. And it accounts for all those pray-ins at the Baskin Robbins ice cream shops, doesn't it. "Thirty Onewoderful is Dirty Terrible!" I think is what I hear them always chanting.
We've been debating the legitimacy of abortion for weeks here. I would suggest that you develop the intellectual honesty to stay on topic and at least refer to it by name, instead of falling back on a false definition of the debate.
circushead 2 months ago
@Salinity1001 "Choice" is such a broad tent, isn't it? It can refer to almost anything. If you're using the word choice in place of "abortion", then I'd call the person who made that substitution a self-deluding hack, and I'd paraphrase George Orwell in saying that those who will murder language will eventually getting around to murdering other things as well.
And then I'd request that they strive to at least have the intellectual honesty to be specific in what they're talking about.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead Choice is a broad tent? Yes, even in this context but it at least is the antonym for anti-choice, which you are in favour of imposing, am I right?
I have been specific to refer to myself as pro-choice and not pro-abortion, in fact this is what this particular thread is about, just to remind you that I am not using choice as a substitution for abortion.
If you can bear it please answer what a particular supporter of choice may be referred to.
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001
No, you are not right. When you characterize the position of those who are audacious enough assert the dignity and right to life of all kinds of humans, even the inconvenient unborn, as being against choice, you are erring. You are choosing to err. I fully support your right to choose to be completely wrong on this issue, but I will point out your error.
You are pro-abortion. You are choosing not to use the term, because you choose to be that kind of self-deluder.
circushead 2 months ago
@circushead I may have said it before, but you are a self-righteous clown. I have consistently stated my position but you wont accept it because you think you know better.
You dont. Just as in the same way you think you know better than pregnant women. You dont.
You seemingly cannot get past your first ignorant supposition in this conversation. All further 'debate' even, is pointless and I may as well simply stand, point and laugh at you with the other clowns on their side of the fence. Ha ha
Salinity1001 2 months ago
@Salinity1001 Your own personal distaste for me is beside the point, though I would venture to say that when you're at the point of merely calling your opposition 'clowns', you've lost the argument. The only question is this: what is the unborn. Answer: it's a person. Any argument that denies that fact is wrong. Tragically wrong.
circushead 2 months ago