I have never seen this fight Ali is rocking this brotha. Allot of people don't give Ali credit for his punching power. As the physical specimen he was for a heavy weight he was a phenomenon, in other words his speed and counter punching made up for his lack of shear beastial power compared to his peer group of his era. i just love to watch him operate you never get enough i have seen no one till this day like him in the heavy weights and probably never will. Thanks champ for the memories.
I have never seen this fight Ali is rocking this brotha. Allot of people don't give Ali credit for his punching power. As the physical specimen he was for a heavy weight he was a phenomenon, in other words his speed and counter punching made up for his lack of shear beastial power compared to his peer group of his era. i just love to watch him operate you never get enough i have seen no one till this day like him in the heavy weights and probably never will. Thanks champ for the memories.
I have never seen this fight Ali is rocking this brotha. Allot of people don't give Ali credit for his punching power. As the physical specimen he was for a heavy weight he was a phenomenon, in other words his speed and counter punching made up for his lack of shear beastial power compared to his peer group of his era. i just love to watch him operate you never get enough i have seen no one till this day like him in the heavy weights and probably never will. Thanks champ for the memories.
@wjeri987 don't make it sounds like he changed his name to hide. He never hid. He took an ethical stand that you might not agree with but it wasn't cowardice as you imply. He could have served but he, like many others, believed that participating was unethical.
Muhammad Ali gave the Africans equal rights and also made America pull out of the Vietnam war! Ali managed to do this while he was spending most of his energy on Boxing! Imagine what Ali could have done after retiring from boxing and spending his full energy on politics! That's why Muhammad Ali got poisoned and they(usa media) blame it on Boxing! How else does a scientific boxer get this disease while many brawlers get out of boxing safely
@Kingjd87 he never fought tyson, you don't know if it's true. muhammad even said himself he thought tyson was the best ever. i still think muhammad is the best, but it would be too close to just say 1 guy would win just like that.
@suberkin Muhammad never said Mike was the best ever. He favoured Jack Johnson as a heavyweight and Ray Robinson as the GOAT. It's quite obvious if Tyson wins 6-4 rounds against Tillis who was a cheap version of Ali- smaller, slower, weaker, less footwork and defence, Ali would probably run him in circles before decimating him. All respect to Tyson, but his management fucked him up esp. King and we will never know his true potential.
Yeah and Mike said Ali would, what's the point? Tyson is actually a scholar of Boxing history, he knows what he's talking about when it comes to the subject. Here he is assessing Boxing champs all the way back to the early 20th century.
@suberkin Style wise a prime Tyson would have a hard time with a prime Ali. If Tyson could get inside and connect with a left hook it still doesn't gurantee he would stop Ali. Some of the hardest hitting heavyweights in boxing history weren't able to knock out Ali, like Ken Norton. Earnie Shavers said he thew his best punches at Ali and was amazed that he was still able to continue. Forman went in on Ali with body punches that would takes out most heavyweights.
@suberkin Plus he would have to contend with Ali's hand and foot speed, and reflexes. Prime Ali had a great judgement of distance, and could pick off his opponent at will with incredible accuracy. He had that long reach, his lateral movement, great stamina, and was a great strategic fighter. If it went the distance, prime Ali wins. Over 15 rounds it would favour Ali, as history has shown that the longer the fight went, Tyson was more vulnerable, and he didn't have the greatest chin either.
@suberkin Prime Tyson had very good defence, good head movement. He was able to slip punches very well and counter with left hooks. He would have to try and cut the ring off and get Ali on the ropes. If he doesn't get an early KO, then Ali would break him down. Don't be fooled by the highlights of Tyson's knock outs. They were legit, but against the best of his era, he was exposed. Its well known that he avoided Riddick Bowe, and didn't want to fight an old George Foreman in the 90's.
@suberkin And it wasn't cause he was worried about old George Foreman's health. They weren't the only ones he ducked. There's a video on youtube from the 80's where his managers at the time were talking about how they select fights for Tyson. His resume says a lot. He was an exciting fighter (one of the most exciting fighters ever) but there were greater heavyweight champions than Tyson. You only need to look at his record and see who he fought and at what stage of their careers he fought them.
@Kingjd87 I'm not so sure about tyson. He was also very good. The question is always up when i read these comments. Nobody will never know, who of those two great boxers would have won.
You need to slap yourself son and wake up to reality! i bet you thought Obama was the savior in 2008!
The real heroes got taken care of in the 60's, 70's and 80's! Malcolm, MLk & JFK got assassinated while Muhammad Ali got poisoned(but the CONTROLLED media blames it on boxing)
Tyson was nothing but a big Patterson and he tore through the division but he never beat a classy guy like Lewis. Tyson made the wrong choices, no one put a gun to his head and said drop Rooney or die!
@sonofaballer96 A classy guy called Lennox Lewis quoted ,"i didnt want to fight tyson when he was 19,he was an animal". All the fighters waited for tyson to level off because his level of intensity in conditioning and training and fighting every 3 months made him too risky for holyfield in 88,lewis ran to the olympics and douglas was ko'd by tucker who tyson already outboxed when tyson was in his best.
@sonofaballer96 I meant holyfields management believed tyson was too intense for their smaller heavyweight in 88.They were more then happy to delay a tyson/holy fight in 89.Holyfield barely got thru Michael Dokes who tyson would have run right thru in 1988.
@fadethetrade He was holyfield even said Tyson outworked him in the 80's(not in that way but it's what he means). I like Holyfield but he was small at that time and Lewis wouldn't have been able to fight Tyson because he was an amateur at the time who lost to Tyrell Biggs twice. Boxing is a crazy sport.
@sonofaballer96 I heard him say that also.Look at this: tyson fought holy and lewis both as a sparring session in 1984.I read that it was considered a draw against both but is it true that tyson got so much better in just 2 years? Of course,holy and lewis would both be ko'd in 2 rounds vs a 86 or 87 tyson.
@sonofaballer96 Tyson possessed from 19 to 22 yrs old,the fastest muscle fiber twitching in heavyweight history,faster then alisThis stellar speed was compact and powerful,alis was fluid but relied on chopping down the big tree because alis power wasn't good.They already clocked tyson in a 4 punch combination on the heavy bag as the fastest/strongest in history of heavyweights down thru light heavy!. He was also the most elusive fighter since ali,better then damatos other student,patterson.
earnie shavers is a harder puncher than foreman and tyson and lennox lewis punched harder. Tyson is just a counter puncher that doe fast combos. If prime Holmes fought him he would lose, everything he said about Tyson was true.
Ali was over-rated. Good fighter but far fromn the greates - as he liked to say. Media and judges loved the guy. He held and grabbed most of his career and besides the Foreman fight - which was f'd up as it is in Zaire Africa at 3 in the morning, he never doninated a great fighter. Liston was on the take and he couldn't even knock out Ken Norton (who George destroyed) or Frazier (who Foreman killled twoce). He couldn't even ko Leon Spinks in 2 fights that went the distance.
It's well known that Williams was horribly damaged going into this fight. He had been shot several times by the police prior to the fight and was lucky he survived. Ali's opponents in his so-called prime were very easy fighters to beat. He still had his hands full with Cooper, Jones, Mildenburger and Chuvalo. Who remembers those names? Ali is nowhere near the greatest heavyweight of all time. I'll give him props for a granite chin, which unfortunately, in the long run, damaged him.
@dropway9 As far as Cleveland Willaims being shot several times that had nothing to do with him losing this fight -Cleveland Williams was no match for the the blazing hand speed and foot work of Muhammad ALi no fighter has ever had a the tremendous hand speed like Muhammad Ali
@E: I've never read that he carried the bullet. He had nerve damage & atrophy of his upper left leg, kidney damage, 10' of small intestine removed, & 9yrs older than Ali. Ali'd beat CW in any case, but not so easily. He's 9 & 1 in his 1st 10 fights after surgery, Ali the only L. No pushover.
@lazur1 He did carry the bullet in him. He was over the hill as Ali says. No doubt Ali was a great, great fighter but I do feel sometimes you get Ali fans that think he was never down or ever beat and that he walked on water. Foreman had a great record for my mind too annd no one could doubt Fraziers skill and massive heart. BTW I am a big Ali fan.
@lazimammoth Actually he developed a good guard in the 70s when he lost most of his speed. In the 60s there was no need for a guard because he was so fast. But in the 70s when he came back he developed a good guard and an iron chin. Although he already had that, it was just rarely tested in the 60s.
@vladiator100 Ali developed somewhat of a guard, & turned out to have an iron chin, but Ali's latter-day defense wasn't all it could've been compared to if he'd started developing it in his youth. Thus he took many more shots than he should have.
@lazur1 Ali was way too fast in the 60s so his STYLE didn't need a big time guard or defense. I saw you say he never had a guard so I simply said that in the 70s he DID develop a good guard and defense, you're right about the 60s but in the 70s he had an excelent guard. He took way too many punches in the end of his career and should have retired in 1975 or 1976. The career he had from 77-81 should have never happened.
If I read Tyson's name on an Ali video again, or vice-versa, I'm going to spit blood. As BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R said, we'll never know the result.
Look, Cooper could've beaten Ali had that hook come a minute earlier, and Tyson was faster and harder than him or Frazier, but Ali later withstood Foreman and Shavers' terrifying power, which obviously goes against Tyson. Verdict: ? So please, stop the pointless arguing.
@TrevorDeanM ,Douglas simply stood straight at tyson and pumped his jab.Once the jab got in,it led to everything else,Tyson became a stationary fighter who ,after 1988, stopped the elusive defensive first posture which was the foundation of damatos technique.After 1988 and leaving his entourage,he simply was too lazy to motivate himself to the agony of the training rooney put him through.He would have tested Clay if it was the 21 yr old tyson. The 21 yr old tyson would have ko'd douglas.
@TrevorDeanM Ali was an elusive fighter unlike Douglas.Tyson of 21 yrs old could give ali the same trouble as frazier did.Tyson at 21 didnt have problems with fighters who jabbed simply because the damato principle is made to elude and slip the jabs.Dundee once said that ali "gets in trouble when his jab isn't working right". DOuglas jab won his fight against tyson and the tyson of 87-88 slipped all the great jabbers of the 80's,holmes,thomas,biggs,spinks,Tucker!
@f: Dundee quote: “I’m a prejudiced bum when it comes to my fighters. I can’t help it. But Tyson wouldn’t have a prayer. Muhammad Ali would beat Tyson with no problem. Muhammad wouldn‘t even get hit by Tyson. Muhammad would keep the left jab going & keep him off balance. It‘s a hard left jab. It was able to keep Liston off balance. Muhammad would give him side to side motion. Muhammad would surround him.“
@lazur1 Who cares.The proof is in the pudding.Ali always had problems with tyson style fighters,awkward,short and as fast as him! A very limited time frame tyson of 87-88 tests ali anytime they would face eachother.Dundee took on Thomas to defeat tyson.Dundee was confident Thomas would beat tyson and tyson embarressed Dundee because fighters and trainers believed that the douglas style of approach beats tyson but it doesnt work with the elusive 87-88 tyson.
It's all about tysons training and focus.It was all about tyson fighting and training in a particular way which required too much training for the post 1988 tyson.No one could have counted out the pre89 tyson as a force to test any other great.After 88 he was simply in left field the day he had his agonizing marriage and everything after post 1988.Today,tyson has finally found peace in himself by doing reality tv shows! But never forget,he fought at a top 5 level for about a 3 yr. period.
(Con't) Cleveland WIlliams would go on to further KO losses to Mac Foster and the featherfisted Al Jones. Williams was a nobody. A career bum-buster who was great at KOing tomato cans, trial horses and stiffs but was beaten in nearly every fight he ever had against even fringe contenders, including KO losses to featherfisted bums. Why this fight occupies a sacred place in the misty world of Ali-lore remains a mystery to this day. An easy win against a stiff.
@ThirdWaySociety yea well, ring magazine once listed him as one of the best heavies never to win a title....maybe he did lose the big ones, no bum though, all people like you who call other fighters bums etc have never stepped in a fucking ring, you an your 8 thumbs up fools will never see boxing from a fighters perspective
@DrShittyBottomHammer He was a bum-buster, not a bum. He racked up alot of KO's of stiffs, bums and nobodies. He was not only beaten by nearly every contender he ever fought, he was blown away. KOd twice by Liston (3rd, 2nd round), twice by Mac Foster (5th, 3rd), and even by featherfists like Bob Satterfield and Al Jones. This is one of the "greatest to never be champ"?!? He isnt even in the Top 50 on that list. And Ali fought him AFTER his gunshot wounds, partial paralysis and 4 surgeries,etc.
@DrShittyBottomHammer (COnt) Ali rightly thought this was a safe title defense. A washed up, (literally) shot fighter. Ali knew about his 4 surgeries that removed alot of his intestines, that muscles in his hip were partially paralyzed, etc. Williams should never have been given a title shot in the first place. Thats the list he should be on: "Worst fighters who ever got a title shot". And yet for Ali nostalgists this fight holds a sacred place. Its laughable.
@DrShittyBottomHammer (Cont) And finally, stop being offended on other peoples behalf. If they didnt ask you to speak for them, dont take the liberty. You are not anyones spokesman. Terms like "bum" have been part of the sport since long before you were born, and used by fans and fighters alike. You want to tell James Toney he cant call people "bums"? He'll tell you to go F yourself and mind your own business. Theres no such thing as one single "fighters perspective". It doesnt exist.
@ThirdWaySociety Why this fight occupies a sacred place is because: Ali fought a nearly perfect fight. Also, the way he danced and punched, it was really more like a "work of art", than a boxing match. It was like watch a ballet or something. We know that Williams was a bum. Ali just moved so beautifully. You don't see that kind of grace and poise in boxing.
Its amazing how Ali beating up on a china-chinned bum-buster like Cleveland Williams is considered an example of how invincible ALi was during this era. How this guy even got a title shot is mind-boggling. Williams had previously been obliterated by twice by Sonny Liston (3rd and 2nd rounds) and was even KO'd by career bum Bob Satterfield in the 3rd round. And that was BEFORE he got shot and needed four surgeries, partly paralyzed some muscles, etc.
@fadethetrade I agree. "Cleveland Williams"? Paleeasse. Foreman would have slaughtered this meatball in 30 seconds. These Ali marks crack me up. Don't get me wrong - very good but far from the greatest as he and media said :)
@aitraining Thanks,wouldn't you agree Williams is identical to a Mike weaver,as an example!??Ali looked his greatest beating mike weaver.I believe Foreman would have gone 15 in a rematch with ali.A rematch foreman wouldnt fall to getting tired because by the time of a rematch,gil clancy took over and he would have prepared foreman to at least go the distance.I don't particularly like Lennox Lewis but with his size and jab,I think he would have made it desparate for even a Cassius clay.
@aitraining And a late 87/early 88 tyson gives Clay the same problem Frazier did.But Clay certainly beats Holyfield any day of the week and twice on sunday.
Actually Clay/Ali was at his best in the Liston Rematch.At that time ,he was just 23 and his muslce fiber twitching was at it's fastest reactionary time along with his swift 210lbs..The same with tyson when he was 22.That was tyson and Ali's best because they both relied heavely on a defensive first posture,ali's being backing up,tysons being slip the upper body and head with a quick twitch.For them to be at their best,that defensive first posture needed to be implemented for 15 rounds if needed
What made the 87-88 tyson so good was that he was able to stop an opponent from being first in the attack,with his head movement and the opponent would get discouraged,not necessarily scared.Just a a few of them ,stewart,spinks,thats about it.
@fadethetrade That is true, but even in "Tyson prime" , if a guy went at him - they could have success or go long with him. Mitch Green, Bonecrusher, Rudduck r just 3 examples. All marginal heavyweights. Tyson is a weird guy to judge. Moments of greatness, but ko'd mostly losers and was shot at 24. Lost to Holyfield twice and Lennox - both older than him and never fought Riddick Bowe or Foreman. Evander fought them all.. I can't rank the guy higher than 8 or 9 all time because of that.
@aitraining Bonecrusher held for 12 and made a concious decision to last 12 by holding .Tyson won 12 rounds,what unsuccess do you see with a 12-0 shutout?.Tucker was a great fighter in the shadow of tyson,he ko'd a fit douglas, and he ran for 12 rounds vs tyson.Green didnt face the best tyson and tysons prime was early 88.That period before the distractions started and declined him,he had a small window of great fighting ability and the holmes fight is proof.green,smith get ko'd in rematches.
@fadethetrade Well Ali held the whole second half of his career, including Frazier so I can't get on Smith for that. I guess we'll never know re: rematches etc. Boxing is messed up to monday morning quarterback with. Most guys stick around to long and in their primes, matchups didn't always happen. Fantasy wise: Mike Tyson - Joe Frazier would have been great. I personally fee Tyson in 1988 would have ko'd Frazier and probably pretty quick. Just to show u I'm not all "old school" :)
@aitraining STyles make fights,I believe ali was better then tyson prime 87-88 but the style is not good for ali.Tyson was too fast for ali to set his pace at chipping away.TYsons elusiveness was the fastest since ali.As soon as tyson abandoned that quick defensive first posture herky/jerky motion in his head and body movement,all bets were off and that includes everything after 1988.Against ruddock,,he took 18 rounds of smashes but 88 tyson finishes ruudock in 3 and no need for a rematch.
@aitraining ANgelo Dundee said on a recent youtube interview video that foreman would have beaten liston.I'm not a tyson nuthugger but I believe he reached a level of fighting for such a short time,that only a young foreman had the best chance to beat that tyson.I dont see,marciano,fraazier,louis,even lennox lewis beating that tyson of early 88,maybe lewis could squeeze a decision.Thats about it,maybe ali squezzes a decision,88 tyson beats everyone else.
@fadethetrade I would pick George Foreman 1972 against any big puncher in history. The Ali fight was f'd up as I have said. Rematch in Vegas at a normal hour (not 3 in the moring in Zaire with their dictator toasting Ali - still can't believe George agreed to that) and Foreman KO's Ali within 4 rounds.. People make excuses for Ali and Tyson all the time (too old, not in prime yada yada) so I'll make one for George, He didn't look right from the get go of that fight....but we'll never know.
@aitraining Who is the all time king on a given night in your opinion?.I like Tyson 87-88,foreman 72 and clay 66.On a given night who else beats these three.When I mention tyson,I dont care that he wasnt a great champion,Im only concerned with his ability as he put it all together while being the fastest,next to ali of all over 210 lbers.His elusiveness was enough for me to get the nod.9 clean quite easy title defenses before his 23rd birthday,too unreal!He was THAT good.
@fadethetrade Love the talk bro but u always lose me with the "Tyson after Ali" thing. There are at least 4 hvwts better than both of them man. LOVED Tyson 88' but it ain't good enough buddy historically. Joe Louis - champion 12 yrs straight. Yes - 12 years! Tyson barely lasted 3. Larry Holmes - 22 defenses in a row. He's top ten but low dude and no matter how good u say he was (and I saw almost all of his fights live), great chamipions have legs....longevity and dominance. Tyson had neither
@MrComptoncityGs Close close fight but I think that a 24yr. Ali beats Marciano, but I could be wrong. I'm almost certain that Ali couldn't knock him out. Marciano was the toughest fighter of all time. But Ali could out point him.
@WilliamHarris007 No, Ali was tougher, so was Chuvalo. Marciano fell to Moore and Charles. Or Walcott. Yes, ali fell to banks and Cooper, but was inexperienced then. Marciano's toughness is overrated.
@carmodifire Marciano's knockdowns were only flash knockdowns, he never got completely laid out the way Ali did against Cooper or Frazier. I think Marciano wears him down and stops him in the later rounds.
@Badger0fDeath Cooper said that Ali was showing off when he got him. And Ali got up quick after Frazier. A 1967 Ali beats Marciano fairly easily, but a 70's Ali vs Marciano would be one of the toughest fights of all time for either. It could go either way; Marciano was similar to Frazier. But I think Ali had the better chin and his reach was a lot better, as was speed. I think Foreman would beat Marciano like he did Frazier.
@MrComptoncityGs Well, ain the 70's, Frazier gave Ali trouble, and Marciano was similar to him. However, '67 Ali was the fastest heavyweight of all time, and he had better reach, and would keep Marciano away while hitting him. I think it would be like the Cleveland Williams fight. Prime vs prime, Ali. But a 70's Ali vs prime Marciano? It would be a very tough fight, but I'd go with Ali, because he took Foreman shots, who was stronger than Marciano.
@mdot0785Tyson would in no way,shape or form get close to Ali. Name me one great fighter that Tyson defeated. Great puncher and at one time good defensive fighter,but whenever challenged by a fighter with great skill level, he got beat and very handily ,I may add. Knocked out by Douglas,Holyfield,and Lewis, and you think he would beat Ali, wake up man!
@blackjesus22able That you even mention the Lewis fight shows just how much of a Tyson hater you really are. That was a crackwhore version of Tysons SHADOW.
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The fact of the matter is, Ali was faster than anyone else in his weight class, then or today, and hit like freight train full of bricks. He was a smart fighter, and knew exactly how to play his strengths to take a man down. Tyson, Foreman, Williams, and many other were excellent fighters, but Ali was an artist of the sport, and he won for a reason.
Si tuviera una máquina del tiempo reuniría a estos genios del boxeo y me gustaría ver estas peleas:Muhammad Ali vs. Joe Louis; Ray "Sugar" Robinson vs. Roberto "Mano de piedra" Durán; Harry Greb vs. Carlos Monzón; Henry Armstrong vs. Pernell Whitaker; Willie Pep vs. Oscar De La Hoya; Ray "Sugar" Leonard vs. Julio César Chavez; Archie Moore vs. Tommy Hearns; Manny Pacquiao vs. Kid Gavilán; Rocky Marciano vs. Jack Johnson; Benny Leonard vs. Sanndy Saddler; Ezzard Charles vs. Michael Spinks.
¡No parecía humano! ¡Ningún boxeador, artista marcial o luchador que pesara más de 95 kilos se movia tan rápido como Ali, además de su enorme capacidad para evitar golpes y la increíble velocidad de sus golpes!
you people sound so stupid trying to come up with the result of a fight that will never happen, you never know whats going to happen in a boxing match you idiots! thats the beauty of the sport, you NEVER know whats going to happen.. did people expect ALI to knock out Liston or Foreman? Did anyone expect that tyson was going to lose to Douglas? people seem pretty convinced that ali would win the fight, but i wouldn't count mike out, never.
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R Ali vs Tyson. If It goes past round 8. Its all over for Tyson. Especially if its a 15 round fight. But even if its 12 no go. Tyson has virtually NO KO's past round 8. And Ali only gets better as the fight goes on. Ali by UD
@POTATER1228 those are statistics bro, stats dont mean anything as soon as the fighter enters the ring.. i've seen great champions in their prime lose to virtually unknown fighters with bad records(not talking about mike) the fact is, ANY boxer can beat ANY boxer, although skills and technique play a major role in boxing, its all about which fighter is willing to make the most out of a mistake of the other fighter . oh yeah, did i mentioned EVERY boxer can commit mistakes in the ring?
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R Its possible. Anything can happen. but since we cant get Mike or ali in the ring. We have to settle for theory. Mike has never comeback from behind in a fight. And Ali is a descion master. His flash earns the eyes of the judges. Mike's most valuble weapons will be his jab and his hook, punches that Norton took advantage off. But after round 8 its all Ali. And if its 15 rounds. Oh no doubt Ali wins. Every boxer can make mistakes. Ali did. so did tyson. But Tyson makes more
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R We're just gonna have to respect each other's opinions but my general consenus is this: If Tyson doesnt at least Knockdown Ali its gonna be a tough night for him. and Ali will only get stronger as the fight progresses due to superior stamina. Also tyson can be frustrated pretty easily. Not Ali. Ali also would not be afraid of young Tyson. One of Tyson's greatest weapons. And Ali talking to him hyping up the fight, doesnt help Tyson either. Tyson's best chance: jab + left hook
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R Can Tyson win? Maybe. But he's got A LOT going against him. More than Ali does. And If Tyson DOES beat Ali the first time. Ali would ruin him in rematches. Ali does VERY well when rematching against opponents
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R Stats mean allot when going into the ring, you think its just two people enter the ring throw a few punches? As soon as you find out who your fighting they watch tapes, they learn how their opponent fights. Statistics and info are vital in knowing how to fight a person well. Who are these great champions that loose to unkown fighters? And no not ANY boxer can beat any boxer, sure theres a small posibility with a lucky KO. But there are reasons some boxers have 95%+ win ratio.
@xTheBoomaHx Statistics worse enemy= upset. also learn a bit more about boxing so you don't sound so foolish, i wont reply anything so dont waste your time.
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R So knowing a boxer has a significantly longer reach (a statistic) is a sign that you should fight on the outside? Fighting agaisnt a boxer with more weight on him means you should try and brawl with him constantly? Statistics arent numbers you add up that give you a result who will win, they give you advantages and insight on how to fight someone.
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R And dont do the whole "Learn some stuff about boxing" if you think any of that stuff up there doesnt matter then you should actually go to a boxing gym and take the sport up and learn for yourself and be tought these things, not just become a self proclaimed boxing analyst who thinks that the boxing is just a bunch of random wins because anyone can beat anyone. Honestly sounds like you did take it up, got your ass kicked and said.. its luck, im the better fighter but i lost..
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R well said! but after seein douglas take make out like that i'd favour Ali ..especially with his long reach and extraordinary power n speed...then again the same attributes go for tyson aswell lol
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R yes,I did after seeing him get knocked down twice in training for douglas by greg page and as he walked into the ring for douglas,I knew something was wrong with tyson..And how crappy he looked against bruno in 1989 gtting rocked in the first round. I knew back then tyson was ready to get beat because he did exactly what damato told him not to do.
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R I am a semi professional boxer and a scholar of the sport so i know what im talking about.
Ali is the greatest but im afraid to tell you Tyson in his prime would have been the winner 90% of the time.
Frazier beat ali twice gave him real trouble because of his head movement. Styles make fights tyson was similar to frazier but was on another level in every area speed, power, head movement, accuracy and defensively.
@carmodifire Joe got robbed in at least 2 of those fights. Ali had all the advantages - crowd, media who would bend over for the guy and judges who let Ali sqweek by many times in his career.
@carmodifire Your not proving a point here mate i said frazier presented problems and that tyson is another animal to frazier hundred times better in all the areas ali couldnt hande. In the only interview with both ali and tyson ali says tyson would win. I am not saying who is the better man ali is amazing truely the greatness but prime ali vs prime tyson tyson everytime
@TheUKConman Tyson also said Ali would win. When Ali danced, Frazier couldn't hit Ali, Ali was dominating while dancing untill he got tired and Frazier caught up on points, after Ali's 3 1/2 year layoff. Ali had stamina in '67, Ali would win. Tyson only had stamina for 6 rounds, Frazier could go 15.
@carmodifire Ferdie Pacheco Quote: "Dancers and runners don't stand a chance against the younger tyson,he eats them". It was the worst tstyle for ali,like a frazier/norton mix.Awkward ,strong,but tyson of the early days before 89 was as fast as ali and ali always struggled with awkward ,short fast guys,always! Even 180 lb china chinned floyd pattereson.Floyd had the same style but lacked the chin and power and he still went 12 with the best ali ever.of course 88 tyson certainly would also.
@fadethetrade Ali dominated Frazier and Norton, when he danced. And Ali was faster than Tyson; his speed was measured to be faster than Robinson's and equal to Bruce Lee's. Norton only gave Ali trouble because he knew hot to stop Ali's jab with his hand. Patterson only lasted 12 cuz Ali wanted to punish him, watch the tape. Tillis went the distance, Ali would too, as he took Foreman shots. And he wouldn't be outboxed. Patterson, Rooney, and Atlas say Ali beats Tyson.
@carmodifire Ali did NOT dominate Norton,What planet do you live on or what generation are you from??.Norton won the first fight.How does ali dominate a fighter who win? Frazier gave ali a terrble beating in their first fight.i believe a very shotr term tyson was his best around right after proving to the world he could outbox a 6'6" undefeated champ,Tucker,who already just ko'd a fit douglas and that 87 year tyson was getting real good.Tillis gets ko'd in rematches with tyson in 88.
@carmodifire Ali faced two guys just about reaching their highest ability and who had both tyson like technique,fast,awkward,hard to hit,strong.Tyson of late 87 would have beaten ali of 1971.that's for sure and of course tyson late 87,would have run thru norton in 3 or less.But ali could win big in a rematch.But since frazier was able to do terrible damage to ali in the first fight,i pic a late87 tyson over ali as well.Ali was beatable and in tyson ai would be facing norton/frazier mix.OUCH!
@fadethetrade Norton was nothing like Tyson- an outboxer who used the jab, arms shielding sideways, etc. Now, Frazier and Tyson were similar. Ali would probably lose to Tyson in '71. However, Prime Ali was 1967. Ali was beating Frazier by a lot when he had the stamina to dance. After the layoff, he couldn't keep it up. When Ali stopped his dancing,Frazier could move in and get him. Tyson was a Patterson-Frazier, not Norton-Frazier. Ali would move enough to keep Tyson away with speed and the jab
@TheUKConman I agree but the claim amongst tyson bashers is that tyson coudlnt fight after the 5th round rooney confirmed in late 87 tyson could go 15. Their other claim is that when a fighter fights back,tyson folds , not true. Fighters couldnt hit him with his elusivness,this discouraged the opponent and they got thrown out of their game plan and into tysons.
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I have never seen this fight Ali is rocking this brotha. Allot of people don't give Ali credit for his punching power. As the physical specimen he was for a heavy weight he was a phenomenon, in other words his speed and counter punching made up for his lack of shear beastial power compared to his peer group of his era. i just love to watch him operate you never get enough i have seen no one till this day like him in the heavy weights and probably never will. Thanks champ for the memories.
davisismail1comcast 1 day ago
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I have never seen this fight Ali is rocking this brotha. Allot of people don't give Ali credit for his punching power. As the physical specimen he was for a heavy weight he was a phenomenon, in other words his speed and counter punching made up for his lack of shear beastial power compared to his peer group of his era. i just love to watch him operate you never get enough i have seen no one till this day like him in the heavy weights and probably never will. Thanks champ for the memories.
davisismail1comcast 1 day ago
I have never seen this fight Ali is rocking this brotha. Allot of people don't give Ali credit for his punching power. As the physical specimen he was for a heavy weight he was a phenomenon, in other words his speed and counter punching made up for his lack of shear beastial power compared to his peer group of his era. i just love to watch him operate you never get enough i have seen no one till this day like him in the heavy weights and probably never will. Thanks champ for the memories.
davisismail1comcast 1 day ago
Cleveland williams was a 37 years old shot up crack head gun victim here, ffs i coulda beat him.
shotgunshawzy 1 day ago
@shotgunshawzy u cant even beat ur shadow
kkhunter87 8 hours ago
behold ; the best ever , by far
RisingSon011 1 week ago
60's...music was great, football was great, even boxing was great....those times was.....oh father you was so lucky
stickyfinger24 1 week ago
Cassius Clay changed his name to Muhammad Ali because he dodged the draft in the United States armed forces. I served, why could he not?
wjeri987 1 week ago
@wjeri987 don't make it sounds like he changed his name to hide. He never hid. He took an ethical stand that you might not agree with but it wasn't cowardice as you imply. He could have served but he, like many others, believed that participating was unethical.
eagsalazar 1 week ago
@wjeri987
Ali chose to accept the names of Allah because he didn't know his father's name from Africa, as many black people in the American Diaspora don't.
JusBeCuzz 1 week ago
Cleveland Williams was just a boxing punching bag for Ali.
leopianotuner 1 week ago
Ali
tateavery21 2 weeks ago
who win ali or tyson
kkhunter87 2 weeks ago
The likes of will never be seen again...
74bomayemcfc 2 weeks ago
how can anyone punch that hard off the BACK FOOT going backwards?
Malloyism 2 weeks ago
ali was truly the best one!!!
cocacolashotgun 3 weeks ago
IMPORTANT MESSAGE!
Muhammad Ali gave the Africans equal rights and also made America pull out of the Vietnam war! Ali managed to do this while he was spending most of his energy on Boxing! Imagine what Ali could have done after retiring from boxing and spending his full energy on politics! That's why Muhammad Ali got poisoned and they(usa media) blame it on Boxing! How else does a scientific boxer get this disease while many brawlers get out of boxing safely
watch?v=XWda8CLIpGQ
PassOnTheTruth 1 month ago
@PassOnTheTruth
txs!
dumbNAZIrobbedHOPKIN 1 month ago
@PassOnTheTruth
Most of the people killed in Libya were Black Africans! Black Africa actually supported Gaddafi!
MariahCareyBest2011 1 month ago
@MariahCareyBest2011 what this has to do with gadafi
cozmic24 3 weeks ago
@MariahCareyBest2011 thats becouse Qaddafi supported black Africa
Rebelconformist82 2 weeks ago
@PassOnTheTruth hahahahaha good joke
bingobongo147 4 weeks ago
Dude Ali would tire Tyson the FUCK out, just by dancin' all over the ring!!! 10/10 *****
DanielDiDomenico89 1 month ago
ALi and tyson both in their prime...Tyson would knock him out i thought!
44JohnCena44 1 month ago
Is Cleveland Williams hair processed? He looks like he's about do some Dark and Lovely commercials LMAO
Shandra9000mail 1 month ago
Ali in the 60s (his physical prime) was UNBEATABLE! Line them up and Ali would beat them: Tyson, Foreman, Lennox, Evander, Klitchko etc...
Kingjd87 1 month ago 47
@Kingjd87 he never fought tyson, you don't know if it's true. muhammad even said himself he thought tyson was the best ever. i still think muhammad is the best, but it would be too close to just say 1 guy would win just like that.
suberkin 1 month ago
@suberkin Muhammad never said Mike was the best ever. He favoured Jack Johnson as a heavyweight and Ray Robinson as the GOAT. It's quite obvious if Tyson wins 6-4 rounds against Tillis who was a cheap version of Ali- smaller, slower, weaker, less footwork and defence, Ali would probably run him in circles before decimating him. All respect to Tyson, but his management fucked him up esp. King and we will never know his true potential.
musood6630 1 month ago
@musood6630 he said in an interview that mike tyson could beat him.. and he kept insisting mike tyson was better.
suberkin 1 month ago
@suberkin
Yeah and Mike said Ali would, what's the point? Tyson is actually a scholar of Boxing history, he knows what he's talking about when it comes to the subject. Here he is assessing Boxing champs all the way back to the early 20th century.
watch?v=orxmkDJ_o3U
Onieracraft 1 month ago
@suberkin Style wise a prime Tyson would have a hard time with a prime Ali. If Tyson could get inside and connect with a left hook it still doesn't gurantee he would stop Ali. Some of the hardest hitting heavyweights in boxing history weren't able to knock out Ali, like Ken Norton. Earnie Shavers said he thew his best punches at Ali and was amazed that he was still able to continue. Forman went in on Ali with body punches that would takes out most heavyweights.
bolder2009 1 week ago
@bolder2009 i don't really wanna read the 4 chapter book you wrote for me if i'm honest.
suberkin 1 week ago
@suberkin Ok to cut a long story short. Speed and timing beats power.
bolder2009 1 week ago
@suberkin Plus he would have to contend with Ali's hand and foot speed, and reflexes. Prime Ali had a great judgement of distance, and could pick off his opponent at will with incredible accuracy. He had that long reach, his lateral movement, great stamina, and was a great strategic fighter. If it went the distance, prime Ali wins. Over 15 rounds it would favour Ali, as history has shown that the longer the fight went, Tyson was more vulnerable, and he didn't have the greatest chin either.
bolder2009 1 week ago
@suberkin Prime Tyson had very good defence, good head movement. He was able to slip punches very well and counter with left hooks. He would have to try and cut the ring off and get Ali on the ropes. If he doesn't get an early KO, then Ali would break him down. Don't be fooled by the highlights of Tyson's knock outs. They were legit, but against the best of his era, he was exposed. Its well known that he avoided Riddick Bowe, and didn't want to fight an old George Foreman in the 90's.
bolder2009 1 week ago
@suberkin And it wasn't cause he was worried about old George Foreman's health. They weren't the only ones he ducked. There's a video on youtube from the 80's where his managers at the time were talking about how they select fights for Tyson. His resume says a lot. He was an exciting fighter (one of the most exciting fighters ever) but there were greater heavyweight champions than Tyson. You only need to look at his record and see who he fought and at what stage of their careers he fought them.
bolder2009 1 week ago
@Kingjd87 you are right mate.
blutobelushi 1 month ago
@Kingjd87 ali in his prime and tyson in his prime tyson would KILL ali
70short 1 week ago
@Kingjd87 I'm not so sure about tyson. He was also very good. The question is always up when i read these comments. Nobody will never know, who of those two great boxers would have won.
L1ghtweightt 6 days ago
@L1ghtweightt
Tyson was overrated. How many prime hall of famers has he KO'D??? Tyson was knocking out bums man, BUMS!
Kingjd87 3 days ago
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This was an ass whippin.
Snowflayke30 2 months ago 3
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compared to this , ali's fights after he came back from layoff is like c game, but he still dominated 70's too
cozmic24 2 months ago
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cozmic24 2 months ago
Superb boxing.
ffairlane57 2 months ago
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cozmic24 2 months ago
this is Ali at his best..PRIME
MrWondermann 2 months ago 11
gold star
2jeremyable 2 months ago
You need to slap yourself son and wake up to reality! i bet you thought Obama was the savior in 2008!
The real heroes got taken care of in the 60's, 70's and 80's! Malcolm, MLk & JFK got assassinated while Muhammad Ali got poisoned(but the CONTROLLED media blames it on boxing)
watch?v=3p-WtMQAd68&
PassOnTheTruth 2 months ago
the shot at 1:42 is the same as the anchor punch used on Mr.Liston.....hard straight right
B04Jordan 2 months ago
2:02 + whoah!
barticoch 3 months ago
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website of the legendary muhammad ali includin all his fights ,his famous interviews ,and full documentaries
**** muhammad-ali.clanteam.com ******
thejewelerfantasy 3 months ago
he was even was faster than lightweight, truely amazing
cozmic24 3 months ago
Tyson was nothing but a big Patterson and he tore through the division but he never beat a classy guy like Lewis. Tyson made the wrong choices, no one put a gun to his head and said drop Rooney or die!
sonofaballer96 3 months ago
@sonofaballer96 A classy guy called Lennox Lewis quoted ,"i didnt want to fight tyson when he was 19,he was an animal". All the fighters waited for tyson to level off because his level of intensity in conditioning and training and fighting every 3 months made him too risky for holyfield in 88,lewis ran to the olympics and douglas was ko'd by tucker who tyson already outboxed when tyson was in his best.
fadethetrade 3 months ago
@sonofaballer96 I meant holyfields management believed tyson was too intense for their smaller heavyweight in 88.They were more then happy to delay a tyson/holy fight in 89.Holyfield barely got thru Michael Dokes who tyson would have run right thru in 1988.
fadethetrade 3 months ago
@fadethetrade He was holyfield even said Tyson outworked him in the 80's(not in that way but it's what he means). I like Holyfield but he was small at that time and Lewis wouldn't have been able to fight Tyson because he was an amateur at the time who lost to Tyrell Biggs twice. Boxing is a crazy sport.
sonofaballer96 3 months ago
@sonofaballer96 I heard him say that also.Look at this: tyson fought holy and lewis both as a sparring session in 1984.I read that it was considered a draw against both but is it true that tyson got so much better in just 2 years? Of course,holy and lewis would both be ko'd in 2 rounds vs a 86 or 87 tyson.
fadethetrade 3 months ago
@sonofaballer96 Tyson possessed from 19 to 22 yrs old,the fastest muscle fiber twitching in heavyweight history,faster then alisThis stellar speed was compact and powerful,alis was fluid but relied on chopping down the big tree because alis power wasn't good.They already clocked tyson in a 4 punch combination on the heavy bag as the fastest/strongest in history of heavyweights down thru light heavy!. He was also the most elusive fighter since ali,better then damatos other student,patterson.
heyschmuck 3 months ago
earnie shavers is a harder puncher than foreman and tyson and lennox lewis punched harder. Tyson is just a counter puncher that doe fast combos. If prime Holmes fought him he would lose, everything he said about Tyson was true.
sonofaballer96 3 months ago
it just a shame, we would have seen so much of this kinda fight if he was allowed to to play for 4 years
inviziblehunter 3 months ago
Ali was over-rated. Good fighter but far fromn the greates - as he liked to say. Media and judges loved the guy. He held and grabbed most of his career and besides the Foreman fight - which was f'd up as it is in Zaire Africa at 3 in the morning, he never doninated a great fighter. Liston was on the take and he couldn't even knock out Ken Norton (who George destroyed) or Frazier (who Foreman killled twoce). He couldn't even ko Leon Spinks in 2 fights that went the distance.
aitraining 3 months ago
Cleveland Williams looks like Chuck Berry! LOL
DICACIO1 4 months ago
if only he did not been stripped away from his belt we would have seen more of this kinda beutiful boxing
inviziblehunter 4 months ago
i saw him in 70s but not in his prime...best ever in his weight class.quick as hell...one of my heros as a kid...he o vershadows jordan
lynnethc 4 months ago
Ali the best ever was or will be. Meanwhile listen to commentary. Best part of the fight.
Keepn1stepahead 4 months ago
ali DESTROYED him. complete domination.
narutonamizake 4 months ago
Oh and that alishuffle....
reddnec 5 months ago
It's well known that Williams was horribly damaged going into this fight. He had been shot several times by the police prior to the fight and was lucky he survived. Ali's opponents in his so-called prime were very easy fighters to beat. He still had his hands full with Cooper, Jones, Mildenburger and Chuvalo. Who remembers those names? Ali is nowhere near the greatest heavyweight of all time. I'll give him props for a granite chin, which unfortunately, in the long run, damaged him.
dropway9 5 months ago
@dropway9 As far as Cleveland Willaims being shot several times that had nothing to do with him losing this fight -Cleveland Williams was no match for the the blazing hand speed and foot work of Muhammad ALi no fighter has ever had a the tremendous hand speed like Muhammad Ali
curtisjones400 5 months ago
.......BUT TECHNICALLY, ON THIS EVENING, HE WAS AT HIS APPEX.
kdpflanders1 5 months ago
Why was muhammed ali the only boxer at that time to have sense enough to float rather that fight flat footed.
dwrared 5 months ago
@dwrared Because you need the stamina to dance for 15 rounds , its pretty exhausting..
gonefishingstudios 5 months ago
It's a shame there isn't a full video of this fight. :(
timberwolves100 5 months ago
Wasn't Williams still carrying a bullet from a police shooting? Didn't he have to have a major operation not long before this fight?
Easyandy100 5 months ago
@E: I've never read that he carried the bullet. He had nerve damage & atrophy of his upper left leg, kidney damage, 10' of small intestine removed, & 9yrs older than Ali. Ali'd beat CW in any case, but not so easily. He's 9 & 1 in his 1st 10 fights after surgery, Ali the only L. No pushover.
lazur1 5 months ago
@lazur1 He did carry the bullet in him. He was over the hill as Ali says. No doubt Ali was a great, great fighter but I do feel sometimes you get Ali fans that think he was never down or ever beat and that he walked on water. Foreman had a great record for my mind too annd no one could doubt Fraziers skill and massive heart. BTW I am a big Ali fan.
Easyandy100 5 months ago
Does Ali even have his gaurd up in that fight
jakegiblin 5 months ago
@jakegiblin Ali never had a guard. He had great reflexes and would dodge almost any punch.
lazimammoth 5 months ago
@lazimammoth Actually he developed a good guard in the 70s when he lost most of his speed. In the 60s there was no need for a guard because he was so fast. But in the 70s when he came back he developed a good guard and an iron chin. Although he already had that, it was just rarely tested in the 60s.
vladiator100 5 months ago
@vladiator100 I agree somewhat
lazimammoth 5 months ago
@vladiator100 Ali developed somewhat of a guard, & turned out to have an iron chin, but Ali's latter-day defense wasn't all it could've been compared to if he'd started developing it in his youth. Thus he took many more shots than he should have.
lazur1 5 months ago
@lazur1 Ali was way too fast in the 60s so his STYLE didn't need a big time guard or defense. I saw you say he never had a guard so I simply said that in the 70s he DID develop a good guard and defense, you're right about the 60s but in the 70s he had an excelent guard. He took way too many punches in the end of his career and should have retired in 1975 or 1976. The career he had from 77-81 should have never happened.
vladiator100 5 months ago
58 guns prefere dancing --'...
DarkBAnkai83 5 months ago
If I read Tyson's name on an Ali video again, or vice-versa, I'm going to spit blood. As BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R said, we'll never know the result.
Look, Cooper could've beaten Ali had that hook come a minute earlier, and Tyson was faster and harder than him or Frazier, but Ali later withstood Foreman and Shavers' terrifying power, which obviously goes against Tyson. Verdict: ? So please, stop the pointless arguing.
TenTonHorse 6 months ago
Ali talks like a oldschool white man.
topbluffa1 6 months ago
Wish I could move like that
TrevorDeanM 6 months ago
he kept calling him clay
teesteven 6 months ago
Even Tyson says "Boxing is a thinking man's sport".. Ali might've gotten him in '66
thegreatjenova 6 months ago
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TrevorDeanM 6 months ago
@TrevorDeanM ,Douglas simply stood straight at tyson and pumped his jab.Once the jab got in,it led to everything else,Tyson became a stationary fighter who ,after 1988, stopped the elusive defensive first posture which was the foundation of damatos technique.After 1988 and leaving his entourage,he simply was too lazy to motivate himself to the agony of the training rooney put him through.He would have tested Clay if it was the 21 yr old tyson. The 21 yr old tyson would have ko'd douglas.
fadethetrade 6 months ago
@TrevorDeanM Ali was an elusive fighter unlike Douglas.Tyson of 21 yrs old could give ali the same trouble as frazier did.Tyson at 21 didnt have problems with fighters who jabbed simply because the damato principle is made to elude and slip the jabs.Dundee once said that ali "gets in trouble when his jab isn't working right". DOuglas jab won his fight against tyson and the tyson of 87-88 slipped all the great jabbers of the 80's,holmes,thomas,biggs,spinks,Tucker!
fadethetrade 6 months ago
@f: Dundee quote: “I’m a prejudiced bum when it comes to my fighters. I can’t help it. But Tyson wouldn’t have a prayer. Muhammad Ali would beat Tyson with no problem. Muhammad wouldn‘t even get hit by Tyson. Muhammad would keep the left jab going & keep him off balance. It‘s a hard left jab. It was able to keep Liston off balance. Muhammad would give him side to side motion. Muhammad would surround him.“
lazur1 5 months ago
@lazur1 Who cares.The proof is in the pudding.Ali always had problems with tyson style fighters,awkward,short and as fast as him! A very limited time frame tyson of 87-88 tests ali anytime they would face eachother.Dundee took on Thomas to defeat tyson.Dundee was confident Thomas would beat tyson and tyson embarressed Dundee because fighters and trainers believed that the douglas style of approach beats tyson but it doesnt work with the elusive 87-88 tyson.
fadethetrade 5 months ago
It's all about tysons training and focus.It was all about tyson fighting and training in a particular way which required too much training for the post 1988 tyson.No one could have counted out the pre89 tyson as a force to test any other great.After 88 he was simply in left field the day he had his agonizing marriage and everything after post 1988.Today,tyson has finally found peace in himself by doing reality tv shows! But never forget,he fought at a top 5 level for about a 3 yr. period.
fadethetrade 6 months ago
Smh Ali was a savage
dapperdonmilli 6 months ago
muhammad ali is a thirsty beast
jullyjoker1 6 months ago
(Con't) Cleveland WIlliams would go on to further KO losses to Mac Foster and the featherfisted Al Jones. Williams was a nobody. A career bum-buster who was great at KOing tomato cans, trial horses and stiffs but was beaten in nearly every fight he ever had against even fringe contenders, including KO losses to featherfisted bums. Why this fight occupies a sacred place in the misty world of Ali-lore remains a mystery to this day. An easy win against a stiff.
ThirdWaySociety 6 months ago 6
@ThirdWaySociety yea well, ring magazine once listed him as one of the best heavies never to win a title....maybe he did lose the big ones, no bum though, all people like you who call other fighters bums etc have never stepped in a fucking ring, you an your 8 thumbs up fools will never see boxing from a fighters perspective
DrShittyBottomHammer 5 months ago
@DrShittyBottomHammer He was a bum-buster, not a bum. He racked up alot of KO's of stiffs, bums and nobodies. He was not only beaten by nearly every contender he ever fought, he was blown away. KOd twice by Liston (3rd, 2nd round), twice by Mac Foster (5th, 3rd), and even by featherfists like Bob Satterfield and Al Jones. This is one of the "greatest to never be champ"?!? He isnt even in the Top 50 on that list. And Ali fought him AFTER his gunshot wounds, partial paralysis and 4 surgeries,etc.
ThirdWaySociety 5 months ago
@DrShittyBottomHammer (COnt) Ali rightly thought this was a safe title defense. A washed up, (literally) shot fighter. Ali knew about his 4 surgeries that removed alot of his intestines, that muscles in his hip were partially paralyzed, etc. Williams should never have been given a title shot in the first place. Thats the list he should be on: "Worst fighters who ever got a title shot". And yet for Ali nostalgists this fight holds a sacred place. Its laughable.
ThirdWaySociety 5 months ago
@DrShittyBottomHammer (Cont) And finally, stop being offended on other peoples behalf. If they didnt ask you to speak for them, dont take the liberty. You are not anyones spokesman. Terms like "bum" have been part of the sport since long before you were born, and used by fans and fighters alike. You want to tell James Toney he cant call people "bums"? He'll tell you to go F yourself and mind your own business. Theres no such thing as one single "fighters perspective". It doesnt exist.
ThirdWaySociety 5 months ago
@ThirdWaySociety actually, I can say what I want, when I want,to who I want, so if you write a load of drivel, then i'll respond...if I feel like it
DrShittyBottomHammer 5 months ago
@ThirdWaySociety Why this fight occupies a sacred place is because: Ali fought a nearly perfect fight. Also, the way he danced and punched, it was really more like a "work of art", than a boxing match. It was like watch a ballet or something. We know that Williams was a bum. Ali just moved so beautifully. You don't see that kind of grace and poise in boxing.
gjc82071 4 months ago
Its amazing how Ali beating up on a china-chinned bum-buster like Cleveland Williams is considered an example of how invincible ALi was during this era. How this guy even got a title shot is mind-boggling. Williams had previously been obliterated by twice by Sonny Liston (3rd and 2nd rounds) and was even KO'd by career bum Bob Satterfield in the 3rd round. And that was BEFORE he got shot and needed four surgeries, partly paralyzed some muscles, etc.
ThirdWaySociety 6 months ago 4
there is no fighter in history who would have beaten ali in this form. I'm talking in their primes. This is why he is the greatest of all time.
GawdSwift 6 months ago
Williams was a perfect robot to make clay look even better then he was!
fadethetrade 7 months ago
@fadethetrade I agree. "Cleveland Williams"? Paleeasse. Foreman would have slaughtered this meatball in 30 seconds. These Ali marks crack me up. Don't get me wrong - very good but far from the greatest as he and media said :)
aitraining 3 months ago
@aitraining Thanks,wouldn't you agree Williams is identical to a Mike weaver,as an example!??Ali looked his greatest beating mike weaver.I believe Foreman would have gone 15 in a rematch with ali.A rematch foreman wouldnt fall to getting tired because by the time of a rematch,gil clancy took over and he would have prepared foreman to at least go the distance.I don't particularly like Lennox Lewis but with his size and jab,I think he would have made it desparate for even a Cassius clay.
fadethetrade 3 months ago
@aitraining And a late 87/early 88 tyson gives Clay the same problem Frazier did.But Clay certainly beats Holyfield any day of the week and twice on sunday.
fadethetrade 3 months ago
Actually Clay/Ali was at his best in the Liston Rematch.At that time ,he was just 23 and his muslce fiber twitching was at it's fastest reactionary time along with his swift 210lbs..The same with tyson when he was 22.That was tyson and Ali's best because they both relied heavely on a defensive first posture,ali's being backing up,tysons being slip the upper body and head with a quick twitch.For them to be at their best,that defensive first posture needed to be implemented for 15 rounds if needed
fadethetrade 3 months ago
What made the 87-88 tyson so good was that he was able to stop an opponent from being first in the attack,with his head movement and the opponent would get discouraged,not necessarily scared.Just a a few of them ,stewart,spinks,thats about it.
fadethetrade 3 months ago
@fadethetrade That is true, but even in "Tyson prime" , if a guy went at him - they could have success or go long with him. Mitch Green, Bonecrusher, Rudduck r just 3 examples. All marginal heavyweights. Tyson is a weird guy to judge. Moments of greatness, but ko'd mostly losers and was shot at 24. Lost to Holyfield twice and Lennox - both older than him and never fought Riddick Bowe or Foreman. Evander fought them all.. I can't rank the guy higher than 8 or 9 all time because of that.
aitraining 3 months ago
@aitraining Bonecrusher held for 12 and made a concious decision to last 12 by holding .Tyson won 12 rounds,what unsuccess do you see with a 12-0 shutout?.Tucker was a great fighter in the shadow of tyson,he ko'd a fit douglas, and he ran for 12 rounds vs tyson.Green didnt face the best tyson and tysons prime was early 88.That period before the distractions started and declined him,he had a small window of great fighting ability and the holmes fight is proof.green,smith get ko'd in rematches.
fadethetrade 3 months ago
@fadethetrade Well Ali held the whole second half of his career, including Frazier so I can't get on Smith for that. I guess we'll never know re: rematches etc. Boxing is messed up to monday morning quarterback with. Most guys stick around to long and in their primes, matchups didn't always happen. Fantasy wise: Mike Tyson - Joe Frazier would have been great. I personally fee Tyson in 1988 would have ko'd Frazier and probably pretty quick. Just to show u I'm not all "old school" :)
aitraining 3 months ago
@aitraining STyles make fights,I believe ali was better then tyson prime 87-88 but the style is not good for ali.Tyson was too fast for ali to set his pace at chipping away.TYsons elusiveness was the fastest since ali.As soon as tyson abandoned that quick defensive first posture herky/jerky motion in his head and body movement,all bets were off and that includes everything after 1988.Against ruddock,,he took 18 rounds of smashes but 88 tyson finishes ruudock in 3 and no need for a rematch.
fadethetrade 3 months ago
@aitraining ANgelo Dundee said on a recent youtube interview video that foreman would have beaten liston.I'm not a tyson nuthugger but I believe he reached a level of fighting for such a short time,that only a young foreman had the best chance to beat that tyson.I dont see,marciano,fraazier,louis,even lennox lewis beating that tyson of early 88,maybe lewis could squeeze a decision.Thats about it,maybe ali squezzes a decision,88 tyson beats everyone else.
fadethetrade 3 months ago
@fadethetrade I would pick George Foreman 1972 against any big puncher in history. The Ali fight was f'd up as I have said. Rematch in Vegas at a normal hour (not 3 in the moring in Zaire with their dictator toasting Ali - still can't believe George agreed to that) and Foreman KO's Ali within 4 rounds.. People make excuses for Ali and Tyson all the time (too old, not in prime yada yada) so I'll make one for George, He didn't look right from the get go of that fight....but we'll never know.
aitraining 3 months ago
@aitraining Who is the all time king on a given night in your opinion?.I like Tyson 87-88,foreman 72 and clay 66.On a given night who else beats these three.When I mention tyson,I dont care that he wasnt a great champion,Im only concerned with his ability as he put it all together while being the fastest,next to ali of all over 210 lbers.His elusiveness was enough for me to get the nod.9 clean quite easy title defenses before his 23rd birthday,too unreal!He was THAT good.
fadethetrade 3 months ago
@fadethetrade Love the talk bro but u always lose me with the "Tyson after Ali" thing. There are at least 4 hvwts better than both of them man. LOVED Tyson 88' but it ain't good enough buddy historically. Joe Louis - champion 12 yrs straight. Yes - 12 years! Tyson barely lasted 3. Larry Holmes - 22 defenses in a row. He's top ten but low dude and no matter how good u say he was (and I saw almost all of his fights live), great chamipions have legs....longevity and dominance. Tyson had neither
aitraining 3 months ago
Boxing used to be called the sweet science, until Ali came and turned it into art.
carmodifire 7 months ago
@MrComptoncityGs Close close fight but I think that a 24yr. Ali beats Marciano, but I could be wrong. I'm almost certain that Ali couldn't knock him out. Marciano was the toughest fighter of all time. But Ali could out point him.
WilliamHarris007 7 months ago
@WilliamHarris007 No, Ali was tougher, so was Chuvalo. Marciano fell to Moore and Charles. Or Walcott. Yes, ali fell to banks and Cooper, but was inexperienced then. Marciano's toughness is overrated.
carmodifire 7 months ago
@carmodifire Marciano's knockdowns were only flash knockdowns, he never got completely laid out the way Ali did against Cooper or Frazier. I think Marciano wears him down and stops him in the later rounds.
Badger0fDeath 7 months ago
@Badger0fDeath Cooper said that Ali was showing off when he got him. And Ali got up quick after Frazier. A 1967 Ali beats Marciano fairly easily, but a 70's Ali vs Marciano would be one of the toughest fights of all time for either. It could go either way; Marciano was similar to Frazier. But I think Ali had the better chin and his reach was a lot better, as was speed. I think Foreman would beat Marciano like he did Frazier.
carmodifire 7 months ago
@MrComptoncityGs Well, ain the 70's, Frazier gave Ali trouble, and Marciano was similar to him. However, '67 Ali was the fastest heavyweight of all time, and he had better reach, and would keep Marciano away while hitting him. I think it would be like the Cleveland Williams fight. Prime vs prime, Ali. But a 70's Ali vs prime Marciano? It would be a very tough fight, but I'd go with Ali, because he took Foreman shots, who was stronger than Marciano.
carmodifire 7 months ago
ali is fast , strong , tough and btw he would even let u get up close to him , get to close and u might just get combo
BlizzardGamification 7 months ago
who won?
tonebone8 7 months ago
@mdot0785Tyson would in no way,shape or form get close to Ali. Name me one great fighter that Tyson defeated. Great puncher and at one time good defensive fighter,but whenever challenged by a fighter with great skill level, he got beat and very handily ,I may add. Knocked out by Douglas,Holyfield,and Lewis, and you think he would beat Ali, wake up man!
blackjesus22able 7 months ago
@blackjesus22able That you even mention the Lewis fight shows just how much of a Tyson hater you really are. That was a crackwhore version of Tysons SHADOW.
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
THE FUCKIN ALI SHUFFLE :D
coby110798 8 months ago
When Ali did not have become a boxer he would have made it as a dancer.
robin14669 8 months ago
@robin14669 the 'ol ali shuffle lol
anothaninjaguy 8 months ago
Ali never looked better, this is prime Ali !
sherom 8 months ago 2
58 people dont know what a "Ali Shuffle" is.
mrfunkeymunkey1 8 months ago
Руки Ларри даны для чего? что с ними что без них, итог одинаков!
The Hands Larri are given for what? that with them that without them, total one!
VitalyU10 8 months ago
Руки Ларри даны для чего? что с ними что без них, итог одинаков!
VitalyU10 8 months ago
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tigersforchrist 8 months ago
"A bullet in his body from a shooting *incident*."
What other kind of incident would leave you with a bullet in your body?
Kullg4r 8 months ago 3
ALI IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME!!!!
nuknuknuk111 8 months ago
The fact of the matter is, Ali was faster than anyone else in his weight class, then or today, and hit like freight train full of bricks. He was a smart fighter, and knew exactly how to play his strengths to take a man down. Tyson, Foreman, Williams, and many other were excellent fighters, but Ali was an artist of the sport, and he won for a reason.
Claymore2007 9 months ago
Si tuviera una máquina del tiempo reuniría a estos genios del boxeo y me gustaría ver estas peleas:Muhammad Ali vs. Joe Louis; Ray "Sugar" Robinson vs. Roberto "Mano de piedra" Durán; Harry Greb vs. Carlos Monzón; Henry Armstrong vs. Pernell Whitaker; Willie Pep vs. Oscar De La Hoya; Ray "Sugar" Leonard vs. Julio César Chavez; Archie Moore vs. Tommy Hearns; Manny Pacquiao vs. Kid Gavilán; Rocky Marciano vs. Jack Johnson; Benny Leonard vs. Sanndy Saddler; Ezzard Charles vs. Michael Spinks.
rbrtdornel 9 months ago
¡No parecía humano! ¡Ningún boxeador, artista marcial o luchador que pesara más de 95 kilos se movia tan rápido como Ali, además de su enorme capacidad para evitar golpes y la increíble velocidad de sus golpes!
rbrtdornel 9 months ago
56 people don't recognize true greatness
allmightymouse 9 months ago
both tyson & ali in there prime..tyson would fall in the 2nd round
farmerricho 9 months ago
This was PRIME Ali.
runtinsweet 9 months ago
you people sound so stupid trying to come up with the result of a fight that will never happen, you never know whats going to happen in a boxing match you idiots! thats the beauty of the sport, you NEVER know whats going to happen.. did people expect ALI to knock out Liston or Foreman? Did anyone expect that tyson was going to lose to Douglas? people seem pretty convinced that ali would win the fight, but i wouldn't count mike out, never.
BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R 9 months ago 29
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R
Amen.
darthmo72 9 months ago
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R Ali vs Tyson. If It goes past round 8. Its all over for Tyson. Especially if its a 15 round fight. But even if its 12 no go. Tyson has virtually NO KO's past round 8. And Ali only gets better as the fight goes on. Ali by UD
POTATER1228 9 months ago
@POTATER1228 those are statistics bro, stats dont mean anything as soon as the fighter enters the ring.. i've seen great champions in their prime lose to virtually unknown fighters with bad records(not talking about mike) the fact is, ANY boxer can beat ANY boxer, although skills and technique play a major role in boxing, its all about which fighter is willing to make the most out of a mistake of the other fighter . oh yeah, did i mentioned EVERY boxer can commit mistakes in the ring?
BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R 9 months ago
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R Its possible. Anything can happen. but since we cant get Mike or ali in the ring. We have to settle for theory. Mike has never comeback from behind in a fight. And Ali is a descion master. His flash earns the eyes of the judges. Mike's most valuble weapons will be his jab and his hook, punches that Norton took advantage off. But after round 8 its all Ali. And if its 15 rounds. Oh no doubt Ali wins. Every boxer can make mistakes. Ali did. so did tyson. But Tyson makes more
POTATER1228 9 months ago
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R We're just gonna have to respect each other's opinions but my general consenus is this: If Tyson doesnt at least Knockdown Ali its gonna be a tough night for him. and Ali will only get stronger as the fight progresses due to superior stamina. Also tyson can be frustrated pretty easily. Not Ali. Ali also would not be afraid of young Tyson. One of Tyson's greatest weapons. And Ali talking to him hyping up the fight, doesnt help Tyson either. Tyson's best chance: jab + left hook
POTATER1228 9 months ago
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R Can Tyson win? Maybe. But he's got A LOT going against him. More than Ali does. And If Tyson DOES beat Ali the first time. Ali would ruin him in rematches. Ali does VERY well when rematching against opponents
POTATER1228 9 months ago
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R Stats mean allot when going into the ring, you think its just two people enter the ring throw a few punches? As soon as you find out who your fighting they watch tapes, they learn how their opponent fights. Statistics and info are vital in knowing how to fight a person well. Who are these great champions that loose to unkown fighters? And no not ANY boxer can beat any boxer, sure theres a small posibility with a lucky KO. But there are reasons some boxers have 95%+ win ratio.
xTheBoomaHx 9 months ago
@xTheBoomaHx Statistics worse enemy= upset. also learn a bit more about boxing so you don't sound so foolish, i wont reply anything so dont waste your time.
BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R 9 months ago
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R So knowing a boxer has a significantly longer reach (a statistic) is a sign that you should fight on the outside? Fighting agaisnt a boxer with more weight on him means you should try and brawl with him constantly? Statistics arent numbers you add up that give you a result who will win, they give you advantages and insight on how to fight someone.
xTheBoomaHx 9 months ago
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R And dont do the whole "Learn some stuff about boxing" if you think any of that stuff up there doesnt matter then you should actually go to a boxing gym and take the sport up and learn for yourself and be tought these things, not just become a self proclaimed boxing analyst who thinks that the boxing is just a bunch of random wins because anyone can beat anyone. Honestly sounds like you did take it up, got your ass kicked and said.. its luck, im the better fighter but i lost..
xTheBoomaHx 9 months ago
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R Doesnt bother me if you dont reply, dont see why you thought it would. I proved my point, thats all that needs to be done.
xTheBoomaHx 9 months ago
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R well said!
Khani2k9 7 months ago
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R well said! but after seein douglas take make out like that i'd favour Ali ..especially with his long reach and extraordinary power n speed...then again the same attributes go for tyson aswell lol
Khani2k9 7 months ago
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R yes,I did after seeing him get knocked down twice in training for douglas by greg page and as he walked into the ring for douglas,I knew something was wrong with tyson..And how crappy he looked against bruno in 1989 gtting rocked in the first round. I knew back then tyson was ready to get beat because he did exactly what damato told him not to do.
fadethetrade 5 months ago
@BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R I am a semi professional boxer and a scholar of the sport so i know what im talking about.
Ali is the greatest but im afraid to tell you Tyson in his prime would have been the winner 90% of the time.
Frazier beat ali twice gave him real trouble because of his head movement. Styles make fights tyson was similar to frazier but was on another level in every area speed, power, head movement, accuracy and defensively.
TheUKConman 3 months ago
@TheUKConman Couldn't agree more.
BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R 3 months ago
@TheUKConman Ali-Fraier 1- 3 year layoff.
Ali Frazier 2- Ali almost stopped him in rd.2
Ali Frazier 3- ali hardly trained and Frazier trained harder than ever, threw more punches than any other mtch he was in.
carmodifire 3 months ago
@carmodifire Joe got robbed in at least 2 of those fights. Ali had all the advantages - crowd, media who would bend over for the guy and judges who let Ali sqweek by many times in his career.
aitraining 3 months ago
@carmodifire Your not proving a point here mate i said frazier presented problems and that tyson is another animal to frazier hundred times better in all the areas ali couldnt hande. In the only interview with both ali and tyson ali says tyson would win. I am not saying who is the better man ali is amazing truely the greatness but prime ali vs prime tyson tyson everytime
TheUKConman 3 months ago
@TheUKConman Tyson also said Ali would win. When Ali danced, Frazier couldn't hit Ali, Ali was dominating while dancing untill he got tired and Frazier caught up on points, after Ali's 3 1/2 year layoff. Ali had stamina in '67, Ali would win. Tyson only had stamina for 6 rounds, Frazier could go 15.
carmodifire 3 months ago
@carmodifire Ferdie Pacheco Quote: "Dancers and runners don't stand a chance against the younger tyson,he eats them". It was the worst tstyle for ali,like a frazier/norton mix.Awkward ,strong,but tyson of the early days before 89 was as fast as ali and ali always struggled with awkward ,short fast guys,always! Even 180 lb china chinned floyd pattereson.Floyd had the same style but lacked the chin and power and he still went 12 with the best ali ever.of course 88 tyson certainly would also.
fadethetrade 3 months ago
@fadethetrade Ali dominated Frazier and Norton, when he danced. And Ali was faster than Tyson; his speed was measured to be faster than Robinson's and equal to Bruce Lee's. Norton only gave Ali trouble because he knew hot to stop Ali's jab with his hand. Patterson only lasted 12 cuz Ali wanted to punish him, watch the tape. Tillis went the distance, Ali would too, as he took Foreman shots. And he wouldn't be outboxed. Patterson, Rooney, and Atlas say Ali beats Tyson.
carmodifire 3 months ago
@carmodifire Ali did NOT dominate Norton,What planet do you live on or what generation are you from??.Norton won the first fight.How does ali dominate a fighter who win? Frazier gave ali a terrble beating in their first fight.i believe a very shotr term tyson was his best around right after proving to the world he could outbox a 6'6" undefeated champ,Tucker,who already just ko'd a fit douglas and that 87 year tyson was getting real good.Tillis gets ko'd in rematches with tyson in 88.
fadethetrade 3 months ago
@carmodifire Ali faced two guys just about reaching their highest ability and who had both tyson like technique,fast,awkward,hard to hit,strong.Tyson of late 87 would have beaten ali of 1971.that's for sure and of course tyson late 87,would have run thru norton in 3 or less.But ali could win big in a rematch.But since frazier was able to do terrible damage to ali in the first fight,i pic a late87 tyson over ali as well.Ali was beatable and in tyson ai would be facing norton/frazier mix.OUCH!
fadethetrade 3 months ago
@fadethetrade Norton was nothing like Tyson- an outboxer who used the jab, arms shielding sideways, etc. Now, Frazier and Tyson were similar. Ali would probably lose to Tyson in '71. However, Prime Ali was 1967. Ali was beating Frazier by a lot when he had the stamina to dance. After the layoff, he couldn't keep it up. When Ali stopped his dancing,Frazier could move in and get him. Tyson was a Patterson-Frazier, not Norton-Frazier. Ali would move enough to keep Tyson away with speed and the jab
carmodifire 3 months ago
@TheUKConman I agree but the claim amongst tyson bashers is that tyson coudlnt fight after the 5th round rooney confirmed in late 87 tyson could go 15. Their other claim is that when a fighter fights back,tyson folds , not true. Fighters couldnt hit him with his elusivness,this discouraged the opponent and they got thrown out of their game plan and into tysons.
fadethetrade 3 months ago