Episode 1: Primate chromosomes, from 48 to 46

[PiratesVersusNinjas]

thanks!



[joebharris]

Why have I not subscribed to this yet?

[SinnFein4ever]

Subtitles, please.

[Theonewhoclimbs28]

"That gene's gone." I dunno why, but that was my favorite part.

[LucidCatnap]

Wasn't this going to be a weekly show? :(

[truckcompany]

This would of been a good House episode...

[AmunRaRocks]

Humans, the retards of the ape world.

[unassumption]

Am I the only one who heard Plato when you said Playdough?

I wasn't looking at the screen and had to glance up to make sure you weren't using bits of old dead philosopher to demonstrate crossing over ;P

[DNAunion]

In meiosis, crossing over does not "really" occur between sister chromatids; it occurs between non-sister chromatids of homologous chromosomes.

[DNAunion]

Human chromosome 2 has 2 sets of telomere sequences, fused head-to-head, in the 'middle' of it. This is not exactly what you modeled.

[Mitche23]

@C0nc0rdanceAnswers /watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

This is how Kenneth Miller explains

[NieroRa]

Hey thanks for the video! but I remember from some of the videos on the Kitzmiller v. Dover (the one with Ken Miller) mentioning that they found telomeres inside chromosome number 2. Doesnt this suggest that it might not be a Robertsonian translocation?

[AtheistCitizen]

1)when was this thought to have happened?

2) Given the frequency of this Robertsonian translocation many "attempts" occur and are inviable, no functional. Could it be that carrying along a viable version as 47 chromosomes awaits an analogous 47er in the same population, perhaps a multi-generation separated cousin?

[AtheistCitizen]

@AtheistCitizen That is, one viable RT results in at first a 47 chromosome individual, with a down stream generation mating resulting in 46 chromosomal offspring? Perhaps even the population would support both 48, 47, 46 until a local domination occurred.

[tanzanite7]

IRL LOL @ "that gene is gone" :D

[Craydon]

Humans: the lamest Xmen.

[RoScFan]

@Craydon lamest? considering the non-mutant in this analogy are wild apes, a mutation to give them fucking super-intleigence is lame? if that happened to humans, we would probably get Xavier

[Craydon]

@RoScFan All we had to trade was the crazy raw strength of an ape... And lets face it, most people waste their potential.

[kiddhitta]

im a little disappointed my question wasnt chosen. i think everyone would love to know if you would eat the moon if it were made of ribs. just sayin.

[C0nc0rdance]

@kiddhitta

But the answer was SOOOOooo obvious.

[MNICY]

awesome video. Really looking forward to the next!

[msginca]

So you're saying our very existance isn't the results of allahs greatness???

[ilshockll]

CONC FACE!

[OlejzMaku]

How could this small group of primates possibly survive? They wouldn't be able to interbreed with rest of the population.

[d007ization]

@OlejzMaku I doubt it. It's not like the other group was a bunch of gorillas. They were undoubtedly more human than any ape (excluding humans, obviously) alive today

[OlejzMaku]

@d007ization Thing is all the people born today with similar genetic disorder (have less or more chomosomes) are sterile because their genetic imformation is incompatible with rest of us. This fussion would have to be quite common so it could be even possible to find compatible mate.

[d007ization]

@OlejzMaku Mayyybe. But as concordance pointed out the genetic LOSS of information would have been very small.

[OlejzMaku]

@d007ization It isn't about information. It's about right number of chromosomes. If there is not coresponding chromoseme from oposite sex miosis (see wiki) won't work properly. It probably just make even more chromosome defects.

[d007ization]

@OlejzMaku Ok I'm just guessing here so don't take my word for it but there would have been a coresponding gene (sorta). One would have been left out so I don't know what would have happened with that.

[Maddin667]

@d007ization right. especially if you consider that the ends of a chromosom ar usually formed by telomeres which don't have information, they are like a bumper.

[d007ization]

@Maddin667 wait was that pro or con?

[Maddin667]

@d007ization I'm sorry I guess I joined in kinda randomly.. Because these are acrocentric chromosomes, there is not a lot of information on the short arms.

I don't think pro or con are appropriate labels for facts. If you look at cancer cells this is something that happens from time to time.

[d007ization]

@Maddin667 1. Paragraph: Would telomeres have prevented this from happening during sexual reproduction with 1 (fe)male with 23 pairs and 1 (fe)male with 24?

[SecularMentat]

@OlejzMaku People with Downs Syndrome still can breed if i'm not mistaken. Knowing how that worked would give you a better answer to that question. Interesting topic though.

[OlejzMaku]

@SecularMentat Actually I am not so sure either but I remember from biology classes that these chromosome defects broke miosis and therefore breeding with individual without same defect is imposible.

[SecularMentat]

@OlejzMaku Yeah, i'm sure there would be difficulties, but i'm looking at the "Does" not the "How". People who have Downs Syndrome can procreate, males are almost exclusively infertile, but even that isn't 100% true. So yes, amount of chromosomes can affect childbirth rates, but it isn't an 'on/off switch' as much as we'd like to think it is.

[SecularMentat]

@OlejzMaku However it does make them largely infertile... (but still they can successfully breed)

[brewerbrian420]

Didn't like your marijuana "critic" but I have a biased. :)

But I love your videos and sometimes its good to hear things you might not like. It allows for change.

Anyhow Subscribed again. Keep up the good work.

Great vid once again. Wish I had youtube when I was in high school.

[Exiro]

How are chromosomes gained and how common is that?

[Exiro]

There's a Concordance on my screen.

[CenaxKikia]

I am pretty excited about this channel, can't wait to see how it goes :D

[meleder]

great video thanks

[ItsNotEvenSunny]

Look at C0nc0rdance flashing all his money around like some kind of high roller..

[itsadeadmansparty]

Prof. Sam Chang proved the genetic material is engineered by high intelligences, its now proven. We are a genetic manipulated species.

[tubetib]

Fascinating.

[GallusSapien]

"Its possible two primates met and mated and we ended up with us"

Quote-mine heaven. I would anticipate a number of "YOU EVAR SEN A MUNKEY GAV BIRTH 2 A HUMN??????" responses.

[billybush111]

So, does this happen simultaneously with each chromosome of the two pairs, or does only one member of each pair become fused? Either way, how is this trait passed down to every member of the species?

[kohehd]

Handsome.

[txshtkckr]

@Moontanman - as far as I'm aware, the (highly unethical) experiment hasn't been attempted, since the early 20th century, with limited to no success. Mammalian egg cells have a protective coating that the sperm must burrow through to fertilize it, and the specific proteins involved vary greatly between species to such an extent that unassisted fertilization seems unlikely. It is thought to be conceivable (pardon the pun), but highly unlikely.

[Moontanman]

@txshtkckr O rea;ize this but donkeys and horses are have a far more pronounced difference in their chromosomes than humans and apes and they are also distant in time as species as well but they can reproduce.

[Moontanman]

@txshtkckr A Bonobo is a chimp, a different species of chimp that is supposed to be closer to us than regular chimps... but as I said why can horses and donkeys mate so easily, their chromosome count is far more different than a human and a chimp... and they speciated earlier than humans and apes.. I think, not completely sure of that one.

[txshtkckr]

@Moontanman Yes I'm familiar with bonobos. All I said is that this was attempted nearly 100 years ago with chimpanzees, that those attempts were unsuccessful, and that I'm not aware of anyone attempting this (whether with chimps or bonobos) with the assistance of modern technology, so the overall answer is that we don't really know. Obviously any experiment of this sort would have profound ethical implications, so we're unlikely to get an answer any time soon.

[txshtkckr]

@roidroid - the chromosomes come in pairs except for the case of the sex chromosome in males. You have 2 copies of chromosome 2, one which came from your mother and one which came from your father. What we are actually looking at is the change from 24 pairs to 23 pairs. How we get from a single mutated copy to two of them is another story. This is just a high-level view of how such a thing could happen at all.

[roidroid]

The math confuses me, which is kindof embarasing coz it seems pre-school level of simple. :(

But if you had 48 chromosomes, and you merged 2 of them into 1. Then wouldn't you have 47 chromosomes? (not 46)

i mean lets go full-preschool here and think of apples. You start with 3 apples, and you merge 2 of those apples together. Then you have 1 normal apple and one super-apple. Total: 2 apples.

what am i missing here?

48 - 1 = 47. not 46.

[jessemaurais]

@roidroid The chromosomes are paired. So, to say that you have 46 chromosomes is to say that you have 23 pairs. Of the 24 primate chromosome pairs, 2 of those pairs fused, and this means the fusion of both pairs. Hence you go from 48 to 46 in total.

Essentially, you have two complete sets of genes, which is why you have these pairs.

[KPhysicsGeek]

@roidroid Don't think of them as 48 chromosomes, think of them as 24 pairs (24 "singles" from mom/24 "singles" from dad) Now fusion happens it effects chromosomes from both mom AND dad so they each give 23 "singles" forming 23 pairs or 46 chromosomes.

[Moontanman]

I question I would like to ask some who actually might know.. well, is it possible for a human gamete to merge with an ape, lets say bonobo, and result in a viable fetus? As a total layman it would look like it would be easier than the horse donkey cross. I am not advocating doing it but could it be done?

[rkyeun]

@Moontanman

The best bet for that would be the chimpanzee, but we have a lack of volunteers. I suspect the answer is no. However if you were to try this on an earlier strain of human, you might have different results. And of course this response wouldn't be complete without pointing out there is at least one ape that humans can reproduce successfully with: humans themselves.

[lilimax555]

Oops...I will be looking forward to a weekly dose of knowledge.

[lilimax555]

I willbe

[EthanNin0]

Hey Concordance, is this a different channel then your default? If so, you might get more views if you added these videos as a separate playlist on your original channel.

PS, already loving the series!

[TanUv90]

Coincidence strikes again! I was just learning about this in biology class and this is helpful. Thanks

[HappyAtheist76]

Good way of explaining it too. I actually got the jist of that! *gasp* lol :D Maybe that reflects badly on me. lol

[TheTomtompiper]

That Gene is gone ROLF!

[syntaxiko]

Nice! I am looking forward to you posting more videos like this. Thank you for your time :)

[HappyAtheist76]

Great topic! :)

[eyallev]

good answer in general, problem is, from what I understand, the telemers are present in the merged chromozon, meaning, the ends were not lost.

[GigaBoost]

Microphone quality, please.

[Gigano1986]

Very nice first video! Looking forward to seeing more interesting stuff.

Responding to the actual content, I think it is unlikely that a Robertsonian translocation occurred the way you described it here with two acrocentric chromosomes. I think this because our fused chromosome number 2 contains two distinguishable centromeres surrounding a telomere-like site; so this would suggest telomere-to-telomere fusion. Nevertheless, the video does point out well how various recombinations can occur.

[TriplePalindromous]

This channel is going to be fucking amazing.

[txshtkckr]

At the risk of being pedantic, the problem with the presentation given here is that you discard the "Excess" centromere and telomeres. The merging of two ape chromosomes to form human chromosome 2 did not do this, as evidenced by the fact that it still contains the remnants of defunct centromere and telomere regions within the long arm. The fusion event instead appears to have happened at the ends of the chromosomes and very far away from the centromeres.

[Vogter616]

As africans dont have neanderthal genetic material as far as Ive read.. that is not the thing that made us... mating between neanderthal and homo sapiens. So any idea of that it whas?

[alirezasepehrara]

Very informative answer. I understood that the fusion between the chromosomes had occurred but I didn't understand how it goes from one individual to a whole specie. Now I know this was common in our ancestor's society that 2 individuals with the same condition can mate and bring about successful offspring with the same condition.

[maninspired]

Hey, what are the consequences of this occurrence? In other words, how did this loss impact us? What are the practical implications?

[skippydeenice]

aliens

[DaluZwasUnavailable]

I thought there would be 2 centromeres on the fused chromosomes.

[DaluZwasUnavailable]

He's so calm, it's almost scary when it's not just a voice.

[Xxhobbs]

I love that you're wearing gloves to handle playdoh.

[HarrysSecret]

I think this channel is a great idea. :-)

[madboyka]

I have a good feeling about this channel.

[pythor2]

"That gene's gone" hahaha

[Primalxbeast]

Maybe I should do some review before I ask any more questions.

[Primalxbeast]

So they fused when the sperm or egg cells were formed before reproduction occured and then an egg cell that had fused was fertilized by a sperm cell that had also had 2 chromosomes fused? and then this offspring was still able to breed and pass on the trait?

Oh well, maybe I shouldn't ask questions when something tells me that I won't understand the answer.

[pythor2]

@Primalxbeast I think it's more than just one offspring. This could have affected more than one at a time and they might have gotten together and made an offspring.

[integralmath]

Note to self: you can bribe promiscuous chromosomes to engage in meiosis on camera . . . for cheap. I wonder if they're cheaper by the dozen.

Also, I'm loving the protective gear for dealing with slutty playdoh and the exchange of money to get them to make little copies.

[kellygiz]

Good thing you're wearing gloves, that stuff is pretty toxic.

[TheAtheistSwede]

Mmmm... plaaaaydough... *drool, slobber*

[Primalxbeast]

Aren't there remnant bits of telomere left at the points where chimp chromosomes 2 and 3 fused?

[C0nc0rdance]

@Primalxbeast

Yes! You can read the primary source at 3. It's still technically a Robertsonian translocation, but in this case the short arms were not entirely lost, there was a telomere to telomere fusion followed by the loss of function of one of the centromeres.

[Herpencounter]

This channel is a win.

[pedrohadek]

Youtube needs more channels like this.

[lostismyconstent]

@pedrohadek yes it does!

[inademv]

Could you make some kind of commentary within your expertise on the anti-aging ideas/speeches of Aubrey De Grey? Opinions on validity of concepts or if there is any potential in the ideas. Thanks.

[roflpl0xnubsauce]

Very interesting video, thanks for the upload.

[jebus6kryst]

Love it.

This is a channel I would not mind donating too.

[jOin3r]

This has been bugging me for a while.

So woman with 46 chromosomes had to meet a man and mate with 46 chromosomes.. the chances are already low.

But doesn't the translocation make a man infertile? Or is it only the case of down syndrome producing translocation?

(btw. your voice sounds completely different when you are on cam. Probably happens in my mind though because I cannot tell the difference with my eyes closed =D)

[C0nc0rdance]

@jOin3r

This is my first attempt at unscripted videos, so the difference you hear is probably me speaking off the cuff, instead of reading the script.

[XmarkedSpot]

@jOin3r

Good questions. There are indeed traces of telomeres in the middle of those fused chromosomes.

Regarding the mating, a translocation doesn't make you infertile per se, see the south american philaetria butterflies. Their chromosome numbers vary from 12 to 88 in individuals and they still can reproduce. In the end it takes only one occurance of a mating with both individuals carrying the fused ones to estabilish a trait.

Trisonomy 21 (down syndrome) isn't about gene fusion, btw.

[lostismyconstent]

@XmarkedSpot Couldn’t there be some info in that 46-chromosomed individual that selected for attraction to genes of its own kind? Like, one 46er finds other 46ers more attractive than the 48ers?

[XmarkedSpot]

@jOin3r

But don't rely on my answer too much, though. I am no professional, just an intersted layman. I bet wiki can serve you a lot more.

[ForYeensSake]

I don't want to be offensive. I really love your video and thanks for putting so much effort in them. But could you please fix the sound in the beginning ?

[DutchLiam84]

I think it is even possible for organisms with a different no. of chromosomes to produce fertile offspring but I have no idea how.

[Quintinohthree]

Looks like this could have been the case. Chimpanzee chromosomes 2A and 2B are quite acrocentric.

[zapo147]

Why are you using gloves??

[reheatedtinfoil]

Another great C0nc0rdance video.  Good Luck on your new channel!

[imsofly74]

:D