Its funny how you christians spend hundreds of hours searching for tiny flaws in the theory of evolution, while we atheists only need to look for a few seconds to find major flaws in all of your theories. And since when was humans and chimpancees the only part about evolution that matters ? How about all the other natural changes that clearly have happened, the ones we don't even need evidence to prove?
Someone doesn't understand science and or the scientific method very well. How could someone who claims to be well into a mechanical engineering degree be so ignorant of these concepts.
I attended a university for a couple of years (without earning a degree) and eventually earned an associates degree from a trade school, yet even I have a better understanding of science and the scientific method.
I shall leave you with this to ponder when deciding your argument.
* Evolution is very much a fact.
* The theory of evolution is a theory - just like atomic theory and gravity theory. The word "theory" has a very specific meaning in a scientific context
* Over 99.8% of scientists in relevant fields accept evolution.
Over 99.8% of scientists in relevant fields accept evolution.
I'll get back to your other responses once I have time to read your "evidence"(midterms right now), but I can personally say that about 2/3 of the physics and science department professors(about 70 of them overall) at the public University I attend either flat out admit that evolution is a crock or believe that it could be true but is extremely flawed scientifically. Your "stats" could use some serious work.
Dinosaurs dieing out 64 million years ago is one of the things that evolution claims right? Did you know that back in the 1500s a villager in central Italy killed an animal that from the notes taken by the man who autopsied it was most probably a dinosaur? If you expect me to approach this with an open mind you had best do the same. Oh and look up the Leviathon in the book of Job, it might interest you. You might even recognize the animal described. I forget the exact verse, just google it.
Evolution doesn't require that all of the dinosaurs died out 65mya. What you're doing is giving credence to an unsubstantiated rumor and then you are embellishing it.
Leviathon doesn't explain dinosaurs. That's just silly. There were MANY different kinds of dinos. It's prima facie stupid to think they would call them all by the same name AND they weren't all giants.
If creationists would calm down and learn the subject before they tried to critique it, they wouldn't sound so ridiculous.
Yes yes you scoff at the idea of it breathing fire, but it is entirely possible. We know that methane is produced in the digestive tracts of animals, why wouldn't some animal be able to store it and light it catalytically. I was actually referring to the Behemoth of the same chapter and got mixed up but both are fairly decent examples. I'll look for the link for the Italy thing, I first heard about it at a conference a few years back.
I attend Michigan Technological University and it isn't just here that I have heard professors speak against evolution. I have heard other speakers who are evolutionists say flat out that evolution is flawed and needs a ton of work but they believe it because they refuse to believe there is a God.
"I have heard other speakers who are evolutionists say flat out that evolution is flawed and needs a ton of work but they believe it because they refuse to believe there is a God."
I suspect that is not what they said, but that is what you interpreted it to mean.
No that's exactly what he said, "Evolution is a flawed theory, and is mostly likely going to be proven false in the future, but I defend it because I refuse to believe that there is some supernatural God out there who created the universe" is the exact quote. He went on to speak about the aspects of evolution that were flawed and that would need to be radically changed or erased for him to consider evolution as the truth about our beginning.
Science is not 'truth.' All theories are flawed, because all are abstractions of reality, not the reality incarnate. If evolution is supplanted, it will be supplanted by a theory that will also be called 'evolution'.
There is no such thing as an Evolutionist, the term cannot exist, those who use are in error of terminology.
Why would your "evolutionist" do it to spite god? There are plenty of theist scientists who can grasp this simple observation.
No true scientist would say in the manner you present, Evolutionary Theory does need a ton of work, as does Quantum Physics, Genetics, Bioengineering, Nanotechnology, lets throw Immunology, Biology & Atomics in. ALL science needs a ton of work, THATS SCIENCE!
hmm yes, when I burb a fart, Ill be sure to avoid naked flames.
That is why some animals, ANY animal could not do what you suppose. Lets try entertain the notion of how they may ignite this burb-fart. Do you even understand anatomy?
And here's the link for dinosaurs in Europe, please don't bring up the plesiosaur Japanese fishermen found, I know it was a basking shark and will freely admit that.
Ive browsed your college faculty, this is a technical engineering college with a weighting on geology. I dare say a frog has never been disected on this campus. Which brings the informed background of said faculty into question on matters regarding evolution.
Whether they teach biology or not almost all science majors who intend to be professors are taught evolution in depth. And no this isn't a biological college, in fact probably 95% of the students are engineering, forestry, physics, or math majors but implying that the professors wouldn't be informed on a topic like evolution is just a little short sited don't you think? It's not like they would be the top minds in the country about it but would almost certainly know more about it than most.
Really name a field that is never taught evolution, as for not taking it in depth, it takes about 10 minutes to explain all the concepts of evolution.
By ill informed tripe I have to assume your talking about your comment since everything on that site is a matter of historical record, you know what officials write down and leave behind. Keep in mind that it could well have been considered heresy in those days to claim something like that. Why would they have risked it if it's not true?
"Really name a field that is never taught evolution, "
This is irrelevant to your claim. You said "...almost all science majors who intend to be professors are taught evolution IN DEPTH." (emphasis mine.) Not just that they "learn it," but learn it "in depth." Unless majoring in biology, most would a get superficial introduction.
Second, engineers are not mandated to take any course that would put him in contact with evolutionary theory.
"Really name a field that is never taught evolution, "
This is irrelevant to your claim. You said "...almost all science majors who intend to be professors are taught evolution IN DEPTH." (emphasis mine.) Not just that they "learn it," but learn it "in depth." Unless majoring in biology, most would a get superficial introduction.
Second, engineers are not mandated to take any course that would put him in contact with evolutionary theory.
Saying "everything on that site is a matter of historical record" is misleading. If people talked about dragons in historical times, the fact that they talked about it may be historical record. That doesn't mean the existence of dragons is historical. People have talked about bigfoot, ufos, demons, fairies, etc., with no hard evidence. Legends are not evidence.
Legends? These are records kept by government officials not legends! This isn't people talking on a conspiracy chat room it's people reporting what they have seen knowing full well that they could be ostracized or killed for saying it!
Yes I'm sure they made it up and risked execution in an extremely graphic and painful manner for a good story and a laugh. FYI being burned at the stake was the general punishment for heresy at the time.
They might have made it up or just been mistaken. It happened all the time in those days - and still does today. Simply saying you saw a demon didn't amount to heresy. It's a good way to keep the faithful (gullible) in line.
Also, the higher up on goes in qualifications, the higher the percent who accept evolution. In particular, nobel winners and national academies members accept at an even higher rate than the rest.
I'm sure there are some religious schools where evolution is not popular - like Bob Jones university and the like.
No I haven't explicitly polled them which is why I cant answer for what all of them believe, but I have spoken with and heard many of the professors speak where they talked about it. In high school we wrote papers on evolution, it didn't matter if you were for or against it you just had to defend your position, does that make my high school religious? You seem to think that not being for evolution automatically makes someone a religious fanatic. You would be wrong in that case.
Lets not dwell on other things. I need to ask you a question.
Are you of the belief that all animals, past and present appeared fully formed at the same time (through a method of your choosing, plz elaborate) whereby what remains today are those which have not become extinct through factors such as: lack of food resources, explioted through hunting, viral, environmental hazards (volcano, asteroid collision or recurring ice-ages), over population or of a dominant species?
4am? hmm I didn't realize it was that late for you, its 3pm here.
Anyway, I believe that all life on earth, including animals, humans, etc were created in one week by the power of God. Whether they appeared fully formed or not is not something I can attest to since the Bible doesn't say and I wasn't there. And yes I believe that what is now in existence on the world are the species that have not become extinct since that time. Why do you ask?
"You seem to think that not being for evolution automatically makes someone a religious fanatic. "
I have never encountered a single anti-evolutionist who had any significant understanding of the subject. I have known hundreds of professors and phds and very few rejected evolution - and not one who was competent.
Since your concept of competence includes believing evolution that goes without saying. Go ahead and try and logically prove evolution and disprove creationism, that has caused more intellectual creationists than anything else.
I have met a number of creationists at college and a very, VERY few among professionals with science degrees. It's no accident that youtube creationists typically display negative knowledge on the subject.
My concept of competence to speak about evolution is understanding evolution. There is no way to disprove creationism - that's why it's not science. You talk about science, but you don't understand it very well.
"... that has caused more intellectual creationists than anything else."
That is a false claim that you are passing on as fact.
Once again have you been going to grade schools to find these creationists? Because you sound like someone who is very comfortable and superior in his ignorance. Since as you say creationism cant be disproved, try and find the evidence of evolution, that more accurately is what changes peoples minds. If you try it you cant read what someone else wrote about evolution you have to find the actual research they used and study it for yourself, you'll see how much is distorted in the translation.
"Once again have you been going to grade schools to find these creationists?"
Nope. I told you where I find them. On youtube mainly these days. But I agree that most of them have a comic-book level understanding of science. Perhaps you could point to one on here who doesn't.
There is massive evidence of evolution, the very video to which you are responding here included among it.
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This isn't proof of evolution, it's showing that humans and apes are similar genetically, which should be obvious to anyone who looks at them. Since your inevitable reply is also fairly obvious I'll go ahead and respond to it already that being similar genetically doesn't mean we came from apes. Look around, there are plenty of changes in species(microevolution), but then again that can be explained using punnett squares we learned in grade or early high school. Macroevolution just isn't there.
I didn't say proof of evolution and you didn't ask for proof of evolution. I said it was evidence of evolution. If you were a little further along in your program, you might know the difference. The point of science is that it is falsifiable. Had the results been differently, it MIGHT HAVE disproved evolution. But they weren't. They were exactly as evolution predicted.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
And since my program is Mechanical Engineering which class is it I still have to take that will involve evolution? Fluid Dynamics, Integrated Design, Heat Transfer, Integrated Systems and Control, which? I already know all I'm going to learn in school about evolution. Maybe you should make less assumptions, then maybe you would be able to come up with an actual insult instead of just looking foolish.
I said engineers don't have to take courses in evolution. They can, but they don't have to. My masters is in engineering math and computer science. I hardly consider the mention of 'engineering' to be an insult.
Another one? I see that you managed to use up all that space and not answer a single one of the questions presented to you. Like I said I'm not defending your beliefs or doing your research for you, I've already done plenty and would like to hear one of the supposed "intellectual" evolutionists actually defend themselves rather than duck the question.
Evolution is every bit as much of a religion as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, or any other. A claim of fact without any evidence.
By the way if you want to call the Genesis creation story God farting on dust need I bring up the South Park explanation of evolution? OK you started this so here goes. The theory of evolution: there were a bunch of fish, they had a retard fish, that fish had more retard fish, one day that retard fish crawled up on land and had butt sex with a monkey, creating a race of retard monkeys, eventually those retard monkeys became the human race.
South Park is a science show no more than The Daily Show is news.
Back to the topic, there is no question ducking, you just refuse to see and read the answers presented throughout this discussion. You have shown nothing but contempt for real debate, part of which is actually listening.
The best thing you have done by spamming this video is increase the attention to it, more people will see it, so a larger audience will see what an idiot you have been despite my trying to help you.
The term evolutionist, is like gravitationist, chemistryist or physicsist. Do you understand?
You ask the questions, and I have responded, on four occasions as seen in this screen capture --> img523(dot)imageshack(dot)us/img523/7779/sighcp7(dot)jpg
Now the world is waiting to see what you have to say in response, this is how we debate, I should remind you that you are in fact 150 years too late in this debate.
Evolution is every bit as much of a religion as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, or any other. A claim of fact without any evidence. - matt61387
Biology is a religion, you actually said that! lol
Matt just what exactly would you like to hear, that I personally have not discovered a transitional for any species that existed? Or are the links I presented not convincing enough for you? talkorigins(dot)org/faqs/faq-transitional(dot)html is quality material relevant to the evidence you seek.
Oh, Matt61387, child, I see you didn't actually try and debate anything presented in this movie.
Why is that? Oh, way over your head, thats why.
Stick to the topic at hand and debate what Ken Miller is presenting. Also, note that the actual experts couldn't come up with anything at the Dover Trial to debunk it... so why do you think you can?
Matt61387, are you going to honestly sit there and say no one has ever found anything to debunk your theory that a God farted on a handful of dust to create men, and then tore out a rib to blink women into existence?
OK if all life on this planet eventually came from a common ancestor and all other life evolved from it, where are the missing links? You always talk about the missing link between primates and humans, invent missing links from bad or faked science. Where are the missing links between other species, why has not one missing link for any species ever been found? They aren't there. I don't completely dismiss evolution, microevolution is fact, it's basic genetics, but macroevolution is utter crap.
Where is the link between a baby and a grown man? At which point can you say, "this is where the transformation took place"?
Evolution is small changes over time, something we can never nail down to a direct link as some changes have millions of years involved. We cant simply discount the many homo-varieties before Erectus as the record IS there. Which link are you looking for, water to land, land to air? These are all evolving with many species sharing these attributes in existance today.
Where is the link between a baby and a grown man? THAT'S your response? What the hell, is a baby a different species from a grown man? What is an adolescent boy and a teenager if not a link between a baby and a grown man? Are you saying you cant tell the difference between those four age groups? Lets pretend that it happened as you say, things changed slowly over time so that the changes wouldn't be seen by one generation, that isn't the question I asked. Stop trying to deflect the question.
You say that the record of transformations from ape to man is there? Name one missing link that has been found that wasn't pure fantasy or outright fraud. Since as you said this supposedly involved millions of years at some point in there these creatures were in a transition phase since as you say, it didn't all happen at once, why is that not in the fossil record at all? I'm looking for you to name any missing link between any two species that has been confirmed in the fossil record.
It sounds like youre looking for the moment a dinosaur turned into a chicken, or an amphibian became a reptile. These transformations dont just pop into existance, the important factor is time or macro-evolution. The baby to old man example I gave represents physical change over time. You gave only four stages of change, there is a distinct difference with 1yo and 2yo, 5yo and 10yo, 20yo and 40yo. Using baby, child, teen, adult drops all the complexity of change occuring with each passing year.
To name a transformation or likely candidate, you should ask an expert in the field of paleoanthropology instead of a youtube user.
A quick google show Archyopterix, Caudipteryx or Sinosauropteryx are likely candidates for some transformations. Surely youve seen the variety of homo type genus in the tree of life, eventually evolving to what we are today.
Since you insist on trying to deflect my questions and twisting what I say I will put it so clearly a four year old couldn't misinterpret it. I am not looking for a moment, as you well know, I want you to tell me where and when a fossil of a missing link for any species has ever been found. A real fossil, not some crackpot or fraud. God you guys claim creationists deflect questions try reading your own arguments.
As for your last bit of BS, please entertain me with one of your supposed evolutionary steps from ape to human. I have seen the "tree of life" of the supposed stages, only problem is that there isn't a single shred of proof to any of it. Geez the Bible is better proven than evolution and you want to call Christians the crackpots.
You do realize youre on the internet, right? What the fuck are you doing here asking me to find links for you? The infos out there, if you dont like it, come up with a better method and send me the link of your peer reviewed paper.
Your the moron who's espousing this theory, it's your responsibility to defend it, not mine. And you still haven't given any answer except to change the subject. And why should I defend your beliefs for you? Are they that flimsy that you rely on someone else to prop them up.
Spoken like a true man who has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. I know every bit as much about evolution as you do and it annoys you that you know absolutely nothing about my beliefs so all you can do is call it bullshit and go pout like a 5 year old. If creationism is bullshit and evolution is fact why aren't you proving evolution easily and making me look stupid? Why are evolutionists the ones who duck questions if their theory is right? FYI I haven't said a word about creationism.
You actually want me to summerise the theory of evolution as it has evolved over the last 150 years in a 500 character text box on you tube? You sir, are a fucking clown. As I have,316 characters left I should add, there are many many websites, pages, papers, documentarys, articles, interviews, case studies and professionals who have dedicated their lives to the study of evolution, as you are an ignorant little cluster fuck troll who lacks the ability to use a search engine, I say go fuck urself
Translation: I'm starting to realize how stupid I look trying to debate this guy so now instead of defending my beliefs I'm going to try and piss him off and hope he stomps off.
I've asked you specific questions, not a summary of evolution, I already know evolution. You cant or wont defend your own beliefs which in my view is a testament to how flimsy they are. You can say go fuck yourself all you want it wont make any valid points in this debate or make evolution any more believable.
Look you fucking peanut, this video is an example, the links I gave are examples, the other media sources in the last post are examples, wtf more do you want. Pull your head from out of your arse and stop thinking we're in some sort debate, if we are, Ive yet to hear you respond to the aforementioned.
You haven't presented a shred of evidence to discredit rgbda's claims. Nor have you provided any proof that rgbda's evidence was obtained by fraud or trickery. So now you've resorted to the last and only distraction you have left: insults.
You're right I should post a structured response to over a hundred pages of text in 500 characters or less. I'm on spring break and leaving in about 5 minutes to hang out with some friends so don't bug me.
Thanks for this fantastic Video. Although this is not for stupid Creationists. If they could understand, Common Ancestor, Great Apes, Primates, fusion of Chromosomes, they
could get rid of their insanity.
There is so much infomration out their and thes Creationists Morons still ask, why they don´t see Monkey´s evolving into Homo Sapiens.
Im sincerly pleased that you can understand evolution whilst still having faith, to totally dismiss information on the basis of heresy is so 14th century ;-)
Its funny how you christians spend hundreds of hours searching for tiny flaws in the theory of evolution, while we atheists only need to look for a few seconds to find major flaws in all of your theories. And since when was humans and chimpancees the only part about evolution that matters ? How about all the other natural changes that clearly have happened, the ones we don't even need evidence to prove?
96cocacola 1 week ago
This guy using 4th grade biology is so wrong it's funny. (I know there is probably a comment approval process)
videoK1 1 year ago
Evolution wins, bitches. I love it.
Deioth 3 years ago 3
How so, evolution is a lie?
Barthayn 2 years ago
science and evolution is not a religion you idiots, religion is the worshiping of something without any basis, evidence or fact
SuperboyConnerKent 3 years ago 11
Anyway... Thanks for posting the video, rgbda. I found it very interesting.
StoneE4 3 years ago
"This isn't proof of evolution..." - matt61387
Someone doesn't understand science and or the scientific method very well. How could someone who claims to be well into a mechanical engineering degree be so ignorant of these concepts.
I attended a university for a couple of years (without earning a degree) and eventually earned an associates degree from a trade school, yet even I have a better understanding of science and the scientific method.
StoneE4 3 years ago
That's the fella that wrote my Biology book! I hear he's a Catholic.
fffanatic06 3 years ago 2
I shall leave you with this to ponder when deciding your argument.
* Evolution is very much a fact.
* The theory of evolution is a theory - just like atomic theory and gravity theory. The word "theory" has a very specific meaning in a scientific context
* Over 99.8% of scientists in relevant fields accept evolution.
* There are no alternative scientific theories.
rgbda 4 years ago
* There is a huge amount of evidence in support of evolution.
* And zero evidence against it.
* The discussion is actually educated people trying to educate others.
* The more intelligent a person is, the more likely they are to understand and accept evolution.
More links for you to not view.
en(o)wikipedia(o)org/wiki/Evolution
evolution(o)berkeley(o)edu/
becominghuman(o)org/
anth(o)ucsb(o)edu/projects/human/
Unless you have something substantial to bring to the table, cya.
rgbda 4 years ago
Each link I have provided on this video has quite substantial depth, references and sound reasoning.
You on the other hand have provided NOTHING in what you are so naively calling a debate, this is no debate, this is a schooling.
Roflmao, Evolution is a religion! You actually said that. You crack me up.
rgbda 4 years ago
Over 99.8% of scientists in relevant fields accept evolution.
I'll get back to your other responses once I have time to read your "evidence"(midterms right now), but I can personally say that about 2/3 of the physics and science department professors(about 70 of them overall) at the public University I attend either flat out admit that evolution is a crock or believe that it could be true but is extremely flawed scientifically. Your "stats" could use some serious work.
matt61387 4 years ago
Dinosaurs dieing out 64 million years ago is one of the things that evolution claims right? Did you know that back in the 1500s a villager in central Italy killed an animal that from the notes taken by the man who autopsied it was most probably a dinosaur? If you expect me to approach this with an open mind you had best do the same. Oh and look up the Leviathon in the book of Job, it might interest you. You might even recognize the animal described. I forget the exact verse, just google it.
matt61387 4 years ago
Evolution does not state 65 million years ago, paleontologists would make this claim.
Evolution has always been occuring.
Evolution is an observation.
I searched for the Italy claim, provide link plz. Some also assert extraterrestrial alien autopsies.
Leviathon: I say this verse should end that premise of argument;
His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth. - Job.41-21 KJV
Interest me it does, far more intriguing is your suggestion of argumentative validity.
rgbda 4 years ago
I suggest diverting from the Old Testament for matters regarding biology.
Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. Job.41-19 KJV
Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. Job.41-20
I can only assume the Loch Ness Monster will be spared the indignity of irrelevance.
rgbda 4 years ago
Evolution doesn't require that all of the dinosaurs died out 65mya. What you're doing is giving credence to an unsubstantiated rumor and then you are embellishing it.
Leviathon doesn't explain dinosaurs. That's just silly. There were MANY different kinds of dinos. It's prima facie stupid to think they would call them all by the same name AND they weren't all giants.
If creationists would calm down and learn the subject before they tried to critique it, they wouldn't sound so ridiculous.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
Which university are you attending?
rgbda 4 years ago
Yes yes you scoff at the idea of it breathing fire, but it is entirely possible. We know that methane is produced in the digestive tracts of animals, why wouldn't some animal be able to store it and light it catalytically. I was actually referring to the Behemoth of the same chapter and got mixed up but both are fairly decent examples. I'll look for the link for the Italy thing, I first heard about it at a conference a few years back.
matt61387 4 years ago
I attend Michigan Technological University and it isn't just here that I have heard professors speak against evolution. I have heard other speakers who are evolutionists say flat out that evolution is flawed and needs a ton of work but they believe it because they refuse to believe there is a God.
matt61387 4 years ago
"I have heard other speakers who are evolutionists say flat out that evolution is flawed and needs a ton of work but they believe it because they refuse to believe there is a God."
I suspect that is not what they said, but that is what you interpreted it to mean.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
No that's exactly what he said, "Evolution is a flawed theory, and is mostly likely going to be proven false in the future, but I defend it because I refuse to believe that there is some supernatural God out there who created the universe" is the exact quote. He went on to speak about the aspects of evolution that were flawed and that would need to be radically changed or erased for him to consider evolution as the truth about our beginning.
matt61387 4 years ago
Science is not 'truth.' All theories are flawed, because all are abstractions of reality, not the reality incarnate. If evolution is supplanted, it will be supplanted by a theory that will also be called 'evolution'.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
There is no such thing as an Evolutionist, the term cannot exist, those who use are in error of terminology.
Why would your "evolutionist" do it to spite god? There are plenty of theist scientists who can grasp this simple observation.
No true scientist would say in the manner you present, Evolutionary Theory does need a ton of work, as does Quantum Physics, Genetics, Bioengineering, Nanotechnology, lets throw Immunology, Biology & Atomics in. ALL science needs a ton of work, THATS SCIENCE!
rgbda 4 years ago
hmm yes, when I burb a fart, Ill be sure to avoid naked flames.
That is why some animals, ANY animal could not do what you suppose. Lets try entertain the notion of how they may ignite this burb-fart. Do you even understand anatomy?
rgbda 4 years ago
I didn't say it was easy, just possible.
And here's the link for dinosaurs in Europe, please don't bring up the plesiosaur Japanese fishermen found, I know it was a basking shark and will freely admit that.
ldolphin(.)org/cooper/ch10(.)html
matt61387 4 years ago
Ive browsed your college faculty, this is a technical engineering college with a weighting on geology. I dare say a frog has never been disected on this campus. Which brings the informed background of said faculty into question on matters regarding evolution.
rgbda 4 years ago
Whether they teach biology or not almost all science majors who intend to be professors are taught evolution in depth. And no this isn't a biological college, in fact probably 95% of the students are engineering, forestry, physics, or math majors but implying that the professors wouldn't be informed on a topic like evolution is just a little short sited don't you think? It's not like they would be the top minds in the country about it but would almost certainly know more about it than most.
matt61387 4 years ago
matt: "almost all science majors who intend to be professors are taught evolution in depth."
That statement is not just false, but utterly absurd.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
"...almost all science majors who intend to be professors are taught evolution in depth."
This statement is false. More than that, it is absurd.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
"ldolphin(.)org/cooper/ch10(.)html"
Any bonehead can put up a bunch of ill-informed tripe on the net - and many do.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
Really name a field that is never taught evolution, as for not taking it in depth, it takes about 10 minutes to explain all the concepts of evolution.
By ill informed tripe I have to assume your talking about your comment since everything on that site is a matter of historical record, you know what officials write down and leave behind. Keep in mind that it could well have been considered heresy in those days to claim something like that. Why would they have risked it if it's not true?
matt61387 4 years ago
"Really name a field that is never taught evolution, "
This is irrelevant to your claim. You said "...almost all science majors who intend to be professors are taught evolution IN DEPTH." (emphasis mine.) Not just that they "learn it," but learn it "in depth." Unless majoring in biology, most would a get superficial introduction.
Second, engineers are not mandated to take any course that would put him in contact with evolutionary theory.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago 2
"Really name a field that is never taught evolution, "
This is irrelevant to your claim. You said "...almost all science majors who intend to be professors are taught evolution IN DEPTH." (emphasis mine.) Not just that they "learn it," but learn it "in depth." Unless majoring in biology, most would a get superficial introduction.
Second, engineers are not mandated to take any course that would put him in contact with evolutionary theory.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago 2
Saying "everything on that site is a matter of historical record" is misleading. If people talked about dragons in historical times, the fact that they talked about it may be historical record. That doesn't mean the existence of dragons is historical. People have talked about bigfoot, ufos, demons, fairies, etc., with no hard evidence. Legends are not evidence.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago 3
Legends? These are records kept by government officials not legends! This isn't people talking on a conspiracy chat room it's people reporting what they have seen knowing full well that they could be ostracized or killed for saying it!
matt61387 4 years ago
Legends.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
Yes I'm sure they made it up and risked execution in an extremely graphic and painful manner for a good story and a laugh. FYI being burned at the stake was the general punishment for heresy at the time.
matt61387 4 years ago
They might have made it up or just been mistaken. It happened all the time in those days - and still does today. Simply saying you saw a demon didn't amount to heresy. It's a good way to keep the faithful (gullible) in line.
TheFallibleFiend 3 years ago 2
Have you explicitly polled your professors?
Also, the higher up on goes in qualifications, the higher the percent who accept evolution. In particular, nobel winners and national academies members accept at an even higher rate than the rest.
I'm sure there are some religious schools where evolution is not popular - like Bob Jones university and the like.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
No I haven't explicitly polled them which is why I cant answer for what all of them believe, but I have spoken with and heard many of the professors speak where they talked about it. In high school we wrote papers on evolution, it didn't matter if you were for or against it you just had to defend your position, does that make my high school religious? You seem to think that not being for evolution automatically makes someone a religious fanatic. You would be wrong in that case.
matt61387 4 years ago
Lets not dwell on other things. I need to ask you a question.
Are you of the belief that all animals, past and present appeared fully formed at the same time (through a method of your choosing, plz elaborate) whereby what remains today are those which have not become extinct through factors such as: lack of food resources, explioted through hunting, viral, environmental hazards (volcano, asteroid collision or recurring ice-ages), over population or of a dominant species?
4am I might be ZZZ
rgbda 4 years ago
4am? hmm I didn't realize it was that late for you, its 3pm here.
Anyway, I believe that all life on earth, including animals, humans, etc were created in one week by the power of God. Whether they appeared fully formed or not is not something I can attest to since the Bible doesn't say and I wasn't there. And yes I believe that what is now in existence on the world are the species that have not become extinct since that time. Why do you ask?
matt61387 4 years ago
I might not reply for a little while, I'm leaving for spring break tonight and might not be checking youtube for a while.
matt61387 4 years ago
"You seem to think that not being for evolution automatically makes someone a religious fanatic. "
I have never encountered a single anti-evolutionist who had any significant understanding of the subject. I have known hundreds of professors and phds and very few rejected evolution - and not one who was competent.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
Since your concept of competence includes believing evolution that goes without saying. Go ahead and try and logically prove evolution and disprove creationism, that has caused more intellectual creationists than anything else.
matt61387 4 years ago
And if you have never met any creationists who understand the subject you have met very few or have only met creationists at the grade school level.
matt61387 4 years ago
I have met a number of creationists at college and a very, VERY few among professionals with science degrees. It's no accident that youtube creationists typically display negative knowledge on the subject.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
My concept of competence to speak about evolution is understanding evolution. There is no way to disprove creationism - that's why it's not science. You talk about science, but you don't understand it very well.
"... that has caused more intellectual creationists than anything else."
That is a false claim that you are passing on as fact.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
Once again have you been going to grade schools to find these creationists? Because you sound like someone who is very comfortable and superior in his ignorance. Since as you say creationism cant be disproved, try and find the evidence of evolution, that more accurately is what changes peoples minds. If you try it you cant read what someone else wrote about evolution you have to find the actual research they used and study it for yourself, you'll see how much is distorted in the translation.
matt61387 4 years ago
"Once again have you been going to grade schools to find these creationists?"
Nope. I told you where I find them. On youtube mainly these days. But I agree that most of them have a comic-book level understanding of science. Perhaps you could point to one on here who doesn't.
There is massive evidence of evolution, the very video to which you are responding here included among it.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This isn't proof of evolution, it's showing that humans and apes are similar genetically, which should be obvious to anyone who looks at them. Since your inevitable reply is also fairly obvious I'll go ahead and respond to it already that being similar genetically doesn't mean we came from apes. Look around, there are plenty of changes in species(microevolution), but then again that can be explained using punnett squares we learned in grade or early high school. Macroevolution just isn't there.
matt61387 4 years ago
I didn't say proof of evolution and you didn't ask for proof of evolution. I said it was evidence of evolution. If you were a little further along in your program, you might know the difference. The point of science is that it is falsifiable. Had the results been differently, it MIGHT HAVE disproved evolution. But they weren't. They were exactly as evolution predicted.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago 8
Someone's grasping at straws....
matt61387 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
And since my program is Mechanical Engineering which class is it I still have to take that will involve evolution? Fluid Dynamics, Integrated Design, Heat Transfer, Integrated Systems and Control, which? I already know all I'm going to learn in school about evolution. Maybe you should make less assumptions, then maybe you would be able to come up with an actual insult instead of just looking foolish.
matt61387 4 years ago
I said engineers don't have to take courses in evolution. They can, but they don't have to. My masters is in engineering math and computer science. I hardly consider the mention of 'engineering' to be an insult.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
"Someone's grasping at straws...."
Yes. Someone who doesn't know what he's talking about is doing just that.
TheFallibleFiend 4 years ago
Another one? I see that you managed to use up all that space and not answer a single one of the questions presented to you. Like I said I'm not defending your beliefs or doing your research for you, I've already done plenty and would like to hear one of the supposed "intellectual" evolutionists actually defend themselves rather than duck the question.
Evolution is every bit as much of a religion as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, or any other. A claim of fact without any evidence.
matt61387 4 years ago
By the way if you want to call the Genesis creation story God farting on dust need I bring up the South Park explanation of evolution? OK you started this so here goes. The theory of evolution: there were a bunch of fish, they had a retard fish, that fish had more retard fish, one day that retard fish crawled up on land and had butt sex with a monkey, creating a race of retard monkeys, eventually those retard monkeys became the human race.
Are you SERIOUSLY trying to advocate that?
matt61387 4 years ago
South Park is a science show no more than The Daily Show is news.
Back to the topic, there is no question ducking, you just refuse to see and read the answers presented throughout this discussion. You have shown nothing but contempt for real debate, part of which is actually listening.
The best thing you have done by spamming this video is increase the attention to it, more people will see it, so a larger audience will see what an idiot you have been despite my trying to help you.
rgbda 4 years ago
The term evolutionist, is like gravitationist, chemistryist or physicsist. Do you understand?
You ask the questions, and I have responded, on four occasions as seen in this screen capture --> img523(dot)imageshack(dot)us/img523/7779/sighcp7(dot)jpg
Now the world is waiting to see what you have to say in response, this is how we debate, I should remind you that you are in fact 150 years too late in this debate.
rgbda 4 years ago
"Are you SERIOUSLY trying to advocate that?"
Ahh a South Park fan. No wonder you are damaged.
I thought that little clip was a great one, though. An excellent description of just how well Creationists understand Evolution.
My mockery of Genesis IS accurate, except for the farting part, but there is alot of hot air.
Do you deny there was dust, some blown air, and a rib involved, in that order?
ThatOneQuestion 4 years ago
Evolution is every bit as much of a religion as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, or any other. A claim of fact without any evidence. - matt61387
Biology is a religion, you actually said that! lol
Matt just what exactly would you like to hear, that I personally have not discovered a transitional for any species that existed? Or are the links I presented not convincing enough for you? talkorigins(dot)org/faqs/faq-transitional(dot)html is quality material relevant to the evidence you seek.
rgbda 4 years ago
"I see that you managed to use up all that space and not answer a single one of the questions presented to you."
Because your questions have already been answered, years ago.
Even in the last 10 months between 2-3 different channels all the answers have been given.
But guess what? Not a single one of you Creationist morons actually listen.
So no, you, like all the others, you arn't worth the time.
ThatOneQuestion 4 years ago
Oh, Matt61387, child, I see you didn't actually try and debate anything presented in this movie.
Why is that? Oh, way over your head, thats why.
Stick to the topic at hand and debate what Ken Miller is presenting. Also, note that the actual experts couldn't come up with anything at the Dover Trial to debunk it... so why do you think you can?
Ahhhh yes, please continue, you fucking imbecile.
ThatOneQuestion 4 years ago
"I know every bit as much about evolution as you do"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!!
Clearly not.
What a fucking joke!
ThatOneQuestion 4 years ago
"OK if all life on this planet eventually came from a common ancestor and all other life evolved from it, where are the missing links?"
....oh great, another one of these fools.
"why has not one missing link for any species ever been found?"
Ohhhhhh wow!! This guy is utterly clueless!
Amazing, a research virgin!! Though, to be expected from the Creationist bandwagon.
Thats simply amazing.
ThatOneQuestion 4 years ago
Matt61387, are you going to honestly sit there and say no one has ever found anything to debunk your theory that a God farted on a handful of dust to create men, and then tore out a rib to blink women into existence?
Are you SERIOUSLY trying to advocate that??
ThatOneQuestion 4 years ago
OK if all life on this planet eventually came from a common ancestor and all other life evolved from it, where are the missing links? You always talk about the missing link between primates and humans, invent missing links from bad or faked science. Where are the missing links between other species, why has not one missing link for any species ever been found? They aren't there. I don't completely dismiss evolution, microevolution is fact, it's basic genetics, but macroevolution is utter crap.
matt61387 4 years ago
Where is the link between a baby and a grown man? At which point can you say, "this is where the transformation took place"?
Evolution is small changes over time, something we can never nail down to a direct link as some changes have millions of years involved. We cant simply discount the many homo-varieties before Erectus as the record IS there. Which link are you looking for, water to land, land to air? These are all evolving with many species sharing these attributes in existance today.
rgbda 4 years ago
Where is the link between a baby and a grown man? THAT'S your response? What the hell, is a baby a different species from a grown man? What is an adolescent boy and a teenager if not a link between a baby and a grown man? Are you saying you cant tell the difference between those four age groups? Lets pretend that it happened as you say, things changed slowly over time so that the changes wouldn't be seen by one generation, that isn't the question I asked. Stop trying to deflect the question.
matt61387 4 years ago
You say that the record of transformations from ape to man is there? Name one missing link that has been found that wasn't pure fantasy or outright fraud. Since as you said this supposedly involved millions of years at some point in there these creatures were in a transition phase since as you say, it didn't all happen at once, why is that not in the fossil record at all? I'm looking for you to name any missing link between any two species that has been confirmed in the fossil record.
matt61387 4 years ago
It sounds like youre looking for the moment a dinosaur turned into a chicken, or an amphibian became a reptile. These transformations dont just pop into existance, the important factor is time or macro-evolution. The baby to old man example I gave represents physical change over time. You gave only four stages of change, there is a distinct difference with 1yo and 2yo, 5yo and 10yo, 20yo and 40yo. Using baby, child, teen, adult drops all the complexity of change occuring with each passing year.
rgbda 4 years ago
To name a transformation or likely candidate, you should ask an expert in the field of paleoanthropology instead of a youtube user.
A quick google show Archyopterix, Caudipteryx or Sinosauropteryx are likely candidates for some transformations. Surely youve seen the variety of homo type genus in the tree of life, eventually evolving to what we are today.
rgbda 4 years ago
Since you insist on trying to deflect my questions and twisting what I say I will put it so clearly a four year old couldn't misinterpret it. I am not looking for a moment, as you well know, I want you to tell me where and when a fossil of a missing link for any species has ever been found. A real fossil, not some crackpot or fraud. God you guys claim creationists deflect questions try reading your own arguments.
matt61387 4 years ago
As for your last bit of BS, please entertain me with one of your supposed evolutionary steps from ape to human. I have seen the "tree of life" of the supposed stages, only problem is that there isn't a single shred of proof to any of it. Geez the Bible is better proven than evolution and you want to call Christians the crackpots.
matt61387 4 years ago
talkorigins(dot)org/faqs/faq-transitional(dot)html
holysmoke(dot)org/tran-icr(dot)htm
asa3(dot)org/asa/resources/Miller(dot)html
wiki(dot)cotch(dot)net/index(dot)php/Transitional_fossils
rgbda 4 years ago
What on earth are you babbling about?
You do realize youre on the internet, right? What the fuck are you doing here asking me to find links for you? The infos out there, if you dont like it, come up with a better method and send me the link of your peer reviewed paper.
rgbda 4 years ago
Your the moron who's espousing this theory, it's your responsibility to defend it, not mine. And you still haven't given any answer except to change the subject. And why should I defend your beliefs for you? Are they that flimsy that you rely on someone else to prop them up.
matt61387 4 years ago
you muppet... you asked for links, I gave you links. I bet you wont even read them anyway. Stop being a troll.
rgbda 4 years ago
lol don't puppet what someone else has said use the space between your ears give your own responses and then defend them when I pick them apart.
matt61387 4 years ago
Are you fucking serious!?
I have better things to do than waste my time playing with some man child whos obvious sole aim is to regurgitate the same old creationist bullshit.
Oh the irony!
GTFO the internet, theres a village in desperate need of an idiot.
rgbda 4 years ago
Spoken like a true man who has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. I know every bit as much about evolution as you do and it annoys you that you know absolutely nothing about my beliefs so all you can do is call it bullshit and go pout like a 5 year old. If creationism is bullshit and evolution is fact why aren't you proving evolution easily and making me look stupid? Why are evolutionists the ones who duck questions if their theory is right? FYI I haven't said a word about creationism.
matt61387 4 years ago
What the fuck is an evolutionist, is it anything like a gravitationalist, or a sunlightoligist.
You want facts, go to a university, Im not holding your hand through this.
Checked out those links yet?
rgbda 4 years ago
You actually want me to summerise the theory of evolution as it has evolved over the last 150 years in a 500 character text box on you tube? You sir, are a fucking clown. As I have,316 characters left I should add, there are many many websites, pages, papers, documentarys, articles, interviews, case studies and professionals who have dedicated their lives to the study of evolution, as you are an ignorant little cluster fuck troll who lacks the ability to use a search engine, I say go fuck urself
rgbda 4 years ago
Translation: I'm starting to realize how stupid I look trying to debate this guy so now instead of defending my beliefs I'm going to try and piss him off and hope he stomps off.
I've asked you specific questions, not a summary of evolution, I already know evolution. You cant or wont defend your own beliefs which in my view is a testament to how flimsy they are. You can say go fuck yourself all you want it wont make any valid points in this debate or make evolution any more believable.
matt61387 4 years ago
Look you fucking peanut, this video is an example, the links I gave are examples, the other media sources in the last post are examples, wtf more do you want. Pull your head from out of your arse and stop thinking we're in some sort debate, if we are, Ive yet to hear you respond to the aforementioned.
rgbda 4 years ago
You haven't presented a shred of evidence to discredit rgbda's claims. Nor have you provided any proof that rgbda's evidence was obtained by fraud or trickery. So now you've resorted to the last and only distraction you have left: insults.
magicpet 4 years ago
You're right I should post a structured response to over a hundred pages of text in 500 characters or less. I'm on spring break and leaving in about 5 minutes to hang out with some friends so don't bug me.
matt61387 4 years ago
Now if all religious people were enlightened like that we wouldn't have people trying to vilify scientific discovery.
modemmack 4 years ago
Great, great video. Two questions: Who is he and where is he speaking?
Forgive me if this info is readily apparent somewhere, but I couldn't find it.
Everstruggling 4 years ago
yey, we win...
unless the "creator" made it "look" like to test our faith in him...
wanna bet that's what creationists will say? '-_-
Lonyguy 4 years ago
Thanks for this fantastic Video. Although this is not for stupid Creationists. If they could understand, Common Ancestor, Great Apes, Primates, fusion of Chromosomes, they
could get rid of their insanity.
There is so much infomration out their and thes Creationists Morons still ask, why they don´t see Monkey´s evolving into Homo Sapiens.
rapidflex 4 years ago
awh, the missing link. hmmm. Something to think about when why is it than where was it. Hehe.
Lexxpac2006 4 years ago
This stuff is beyond my understanding, but I'm glad there are people who figured all this out. Do you have the full video? If you do please post it.
jedi1josh 4 years ago 2
Cool. I believe in evolution but I do believe that God created everything and created us and everything through evolution.
stevenabuono 4 years ago
Im sincerly pleased that you can understand evolution whilst still having faith, to totally dismiss information on the basis of heresy is so 14th century ;-)
rgbda 4 years ago
Same here.
backtobasic4 4 years ago
This is interesting.. I've seen it before though. Is it an upload?
I wonder how far back this fused chromazome goes.
Brianj1234 4 years ago
That was awesome! Seriously great stuff. Becoming on of my favorite subscriptions really fast. Really great stuff.
itsmecejay 4 years ago