The history of science and religion part 1: The introduction

[Soressi1]

you are right about that.  i can tell you can do better. i like your opinions though.

[Soressi1]

almost lost me with that lengthy intro. you needed two seconds to state your thesis. but it just seemed to go on & on...

I will go on to the 2nd, and hopefully the pace picks up.

[AbdielAbiram]

@Soressi1

eehhhhhhh don't expect too much, I made this video series like a year ago, and I really sucked at video making and summing up my ideas back then. I probably suck now too, but less

[noxiouschemicals]

there is a nova documentary about galileo. this comment relates the to the commentary below. the documentary really sheds some light about the whole "church vs. galileo" thing involving the Dialogue Concerning the Two Cheif World Systems. it talks about Galileo and his relationship with the pope and church, and it doesnt cast the church in a negative light. galileo was religious and really respected the church. anyways, this is a really cool topic to create a video series about :)

[tomyloveu]

hmm started with India ? where u getting info all this from

[Xigano1]

AbdielAbiram,

I think your inital premiss is wrong.

Just because many early scientist also where religious, doesn't mean that this was the base for their thurst of knowlegde.

It is a testement to them that they could see, that scripture doesn't explain anything and when it tries to do, it's usualy dead wrong.

I'm reeely looking forward to how you're gonna spin this thing.

[bighaus54]

I like the video series idea. I would disagree on your premise though. I dont know much of anyone who says science was started to go against religion. As you said some of the first main scientists were Catholic. Science started because they wanted to understand things however the Roman Catholic Church didnt accept what these scientists came up with because it went against their teachings. So they were tortured and forced to recant alot of the time.

[AbdielAbiram]

Not really, wait until the rest of the series comes out.

[bighaus54]

Oh I plan on watching it. However history has shown the way people especially scientists were treated when they said anything that disagreed with the church.

[AbdielAbiram]

And like I said, history has shown the view that the church was opposed to scientific advancement is a secular myth. Read Roger Bacon's Opus Majus, the first scientific document ever, where he explains that science should be experimentally driven. The people he says are getting in his way is not the church, but the AntiChrist's (which means anyone who's not a Christian).

[bighaus54]

So you are saying that a Christian who wasnt alive during the dark ages or the inquisition is saying that people who arent christians are the ones who fought against science? Even though history shows that it was mainly the Catholic Church or the English Monarchy which was guided by Catholic church.

[AbdielAbiram]

Please explain how the Catholic Church was harming scientific development? Because Bacon, who was the founder of modern science (him along with some Muslim Philosophers), makes it very clear that it was non-Christians who are getting in his way. Also, the Opus Majus was a letter to the Pope. Pope Clement IV. The Pope was actually the one who made him write it!

[bighaus54]

Well thats interesting because the guy I am going to mention was also called a founder of modern science but he existed many years before Bacon. Galileo saying that the Earth wasnt the center of the universe got him in trouble with philosophers who were devout catholics. Then the Catholic church fought was he was saying because it went against scripture.

[bighaus54]

Sorry about that Galileo was after Bacon.

[AbdielAbiram]

Well I do talk about Galileo in the next couple of videos. The funny thing is though, he didn't get in trouble with the Church because of his science. At first, the Church was happy to see that Galileo discovered something about God's marvelous creation. He got in trouble with the Church because he said he has a new understanding of scripture than the Pope's understanding. This was after the Reformation, and the Church was already feeling under attack, and Galileo was the last straw.

[bighaus54]

So he still got into trouble for disagreeing with the Catholic Church. Just like Copernicus

[AbdielAbiram]

Yeah but people get in trouble today for disagreeing with the Church. The point is, he didn't get in trouble because of his science but because of his views on scripture. Which is a totally different story.

[bighaus54]

No they were getting into trouble for saying that science was right where science and scripture disagreed.

Now people arent murdered in public by the church where the church cant be punished for what they have done.

[AbdielAbiram]

That is just simply wrong. Galileo said that he has a better understanding of scripture on this area than the Pope. That is not allowed. So he was punished. I mean if you look at what happened, nobody cared about his scientific developments, they were happy to see Galileo discover something new about God's creation. However, when things got bad for Galileo is when he said that he knows something about the Bible that the Pope doesn't.

[bighaus54]

Its was on the scripture pertaining to the way the earth was. He said that the scripture was wrong. This was what the pope disagreed with. History will prove this point.

[AbdielAbiram]

No where in the Bible does it say that the earth is the center to the universe.

[bighaus54]

No it doesnt say it explicitly. However many christians have taken various scriptures to show that the earth was the center of the universe. This includes several popes.

[AbdielAbiram]

Verses that say man is the center of God's creation, which doesn't mean that the world is literally the center. You know even since the times of St. Augustine, AD 300, that the six days of creation were not meant to be taken literally.

You are missing the point though. Its not that some religious presupposition got in Galileo's way, which is the intention of this video series. He got in trouble with the Church, not because of his science, but because of what he said about scripture.

[bighaus54]

Actually no it is scripture regarding earth having a foundation and thus pointing to it being unshakable and immovable.

Very few people actually believe that the 6 day creation is not meant to be taken literally. Some do and some dont. You cant claim that this was common. The Catholic Church has always said that the bible is the perfect word of God.

[AbdielAbiram]

I'd like you to read a Catholic Catechism. It makes it cery clear that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. I am a Catholic, I know what I'm talking about.

[bighaus54]

Ok I will read a Catechism. However you being Catholic doesnt mean you know what you are talking about. Im american but that doesnt mean that I know everything about american history.

[AbdielAbiram]

I'm surprised your American. Most atheist/agnostics I meet on here are from Europe.

Also, I've read the Catechism a million times, I know what I am talking about. If you hold on a second, I'll give you a link to where the Catechism talks about the age of the earth.

Ever notice how most YEC's are not Catholics? Kent Hovind, Baptist, Ken Ham, Baptist, Joe Comfort, Baptist, VenomFangX, Baptist, Zkeuker, Calvinist, NephilimFree, Protestant, etc.

[bighaus54]

I dont know whether that is a compliment of a slap in the face. I will take it as a simple statement.

Yes I would very much appreciate a link to that.

Yes I have noticed that. However the Catholic faith has disagreed with protestants on many things throughout the years. So it doesnt much surprise me.

[AbdielAbiram]

It was because of the protestants that we had to punish Galileo. You have to look at the times, Galileo said this about his understanding of the bible right after the reformation (which is the beginning of protestantism). The Church felt under attack once again, so Galileo was the last straw. I guess its just me, I just always blaim everything on the protestants. lol. Also, I was just saying that its hard to find an American atheist. Its actually impossible to get you the link. (cont).

[bighaus54]

Well I am an american atheist. Not only that but I am an Iowan atheist. This puts me deep inside Baptists and Methodist country.

Lol yea the Catholics blame the protestants and atheists and the atheists blame all theists. Its a nice cycle we have going. lol

So you have no way of showing me the article?

[AbdielAbiram]

I don't know what happened to the other comment. But I found the Catholic Encyclopedia link to the age to the earth. The Catechism I was reading was the Baltimore edition, which is not on the internet.

[bighaus54]

Ok if you want to send that to me that would be cool.

[afterhumanity333]

I am an American as well, I became an atheist last year.. not ALL of us are as dumb as the world may say. I woke up from theism.. and if I can do it, hell religion doesn't stand a fucking chance mate.

[BlackCappa]

a very promising series

[dudeofpwn]

I don't think your voice sounds bad