Jive/Jazz Programming

[sahand293]

thank you again my friend

you teach us a lot of things about of this beautifull esc jive or jazz.

from persia

[stratosFZ1]

Very nice video m8!!!Excellent tutorial!!!!

edit:I really really LIKE the way you say BBBuffer!!!!LOL

Take care man!!!

[TheSpeeder1]

Thanks.

Pitty it soes not have a fast start after an Auto bail out...

Thanks again for the info.

David.

[FredrikMelin72]

It's same governor as in the Jive, so typical would be

Normal: either flat or 0-50-50-50-50 if you want to start with your stick instead of flipping out of hold.

Idle: Flat curve, like 75-75-75-75-75

The % you actually choose determine which headspeed you get.

[TheSpeeder1]

Hi Thanks for the informative video.

Can i ask what throttle curv in Norm, ST-1 and ST-2 do i now need. Or is there a gov mode on this. I have a Kontrionic 80 6 16 on a Furion 450 but have no idea as to what my head speed is.

I got the Throttle set to 83 L and 83 H on the ATV. I have a DX7.

Thanks in advance.

[TheSpeeder1]

Hi Thanks for the informative video.

Can i ask what throttle curv in Norm, ST-1 and ST-2 do i now need. Or is there a gov mode on this. I have a Kontrionic 80 6 16 on a Furion 450 but have no idea as to what my head speed is.

Thanks in advance.

[rrdobbo]

That's Pierre Chang from Lost speaking on the video?

[FredrikMelin72]

Its not needed for performance, but it IS needed for comparing % on the forums, this has caused so much headache already on the forums since it differs between Futaba vs Spektrum, if you do adjust ATV it is the same regardless of radio brand.

This make it MUCH easier for the users reading the forums.

[FredrikMelin72]

(as well as headspeed calculators of course)

If you do not adjust, your running 100% on the Jive when you reach 83% on the throttle curve.

[SebalexxDE]

@FredrikMelin72

Hi,

but this is identical at a Futaba transmitter - at 8x% you will get 100% for the Jive gov (led on). And it will start spinning at 10-15%...

If there is realy a difference between Futaba and Spectrum signals, ist is very small and not relevant. Differences of the real motor-rpm/V and in Mode4 the accu V and the load (Pitch) while spinning up the system are bigger.

80% opening (PWM) are reached at about 60% (0-100%) at the transmitter, if the Jive is learned the standard way.

[SebalexxDE]

@SebalexxDE

There are some curves: (but only visible if you are logged in)

rc-heli.de/board/showpost.php?­p=1347062&postcount=32

[FredrikMelin72]

@SebalexxDE

Some Futaba radios are 100/100% so its 17% difference compared to Spektrum, I encounter this differences every day, yes, if you know about you can run 60% and get no difference, the problem is people does not know.

So they run 80% and wonder why they get high headspeed and poor performance, while their friend at the field run 80% and get perfect performance and lower headspeed.

[SebalexxDE]

@FredrikMelin72

But yout wont kill the difference of a -100%/+100% to a 0-100% setting anyway.

60% at a 0-100% setting are at a -100/+100 setting +20%... ?

+60% of a -100/+100 Setting are for real 80%...

This is never directly comparable and wont change in setting ATV after learning the jive.

[FredrikMelin72]

@SebalexxDE

Sorry, but

a) its not comparable among different radios

b) manual calls for people should run > 80% but no mention about the "buffer" it puts in

Which makes people run 80+%, in reality 100%PWM and get poor performance compared to their old ESC.

This is reality, daily.

So, performance wise, if I run 80% with adjusted throttle or 64% with non-adjustable does not make any difference in terms of performance.

But it does make a difference in Support/Help/Issues.

[SebalexxDE]

@FredrikMelin72

Hi,

The manual says you should use min. 80% of the maximum rpm, but never 80% of your transmitter... ;-)

And just that is the right way.

And if you just easy learn the gov-mode and Set your 0-100% transmitter to 60%,

or your -100/+100% transmitter to +20%,

you will have a point near by these 80% real rpm and a realy perfect working governor - its just easy, and there ist no other brand working that fine, also if you turn your headspeed much lower - it will still work perfect...

[FredrikMelin72]

@SebalexxDE

Sorry, but this is the EXACT problem, either the German explaination is too good, or your too advanced, You know, I know, but rest of the world does not know this.

THATS why its easier to calibrate the endpoints.

Reality today:

One guy with Futaba Y runs 80% and get's 80%

one guy with Futaba X runs 80% and gets 95%

one guy with Spektrum runs 80% and gets 100%

This is every day life, Perhaps you germans are used since Kontronik has been in the game long, US market is not.

[SebalexxDE]

@FredrikMelin72

But the Futaba Y,X and Spectrum 80,95 and 100% are not even near the 80% real rpm! ;-)

If your Transmitter Shows 80%(+60%) and was correct learned at 0-100%(-100/+100%) you will allways be at about 95% rpm.

Is 100% allready reached at this value (LED on), it was not learned correct, if you get only 80% it wasnt too.

Maybe there will be a small mSDCard Logger for making ALL these Jive values visible, it is designed, build and testet allready...

Hope it will be selled soon!:-)

[FredrikMelin72]

@SebalexxDE

EXACTLY, But explain this to a guy that barely can program throttle curves.

And THAT is the point of this exercise with adjusting ATV.

So regardless what radio, when you set 80% in the radio = 80% of the PWM, regardless of radio brand.

It is impossible to explain what we are discussing here to anyone not having knowledge.

Most people just say PWM?? Rpm Range??

coming from CC or Align, this is NOT given, hence its much easier if Radio 80% = ESC 80% regardless.

[SebalexxDE]

@FredrikMelin72

But it is not as easy even if you set it like you dicribe in your video you won't have 80% pwm at 80% in transmitter!

In Mode 4 or 11 you can only use pwm band between about 50% and 100%!

Means that if you set the min. throttle position to run the jive you will have about 50%+ pwm. But there are diff. betw. mode 4 and 11 and maybe the load and V while spinning up in mode 4 or first in 11...

home.arcor.de/sebalexx/forenkr­am/mode1.jpg and /mode4.jpg and /mode11.jpg

[FredrikMelin72]

@SebalexxDE

Sorry, but this is where your good knowledge takes overhand,

I help people with Jives almost daily, via PM and on the forums (US forums) and I have not "invented" this ATV adjustment if it wasnt needed, I spent countless hours trying to explain. But after I made this videos all of the sudden people can compare at the fields, help each other and the questions dropped like a stone in numbers.

I don't know why not Kontronik use full resolution from start, would have been much easier

[FredrikMelin72]

@SebalexxDE

Its not about getting 80% PWM exactly, its about getting the same regardless of radio, for all users, so people can understand themself.

Its nothing about performance, Its just about usability, Compare-ability.

[SebalexxDE]

@FredrikMelin72

I think maybe the point of big differences, not comparable results could be a not correct way of learning the Jive of some users... If they dont Learn it with 0-100 or -100/+100 endpositions, its just not possible to compare.

If you set a idle 80% and learn with it, you will allways be at 100% even if you set 70%.

If the real endpos. are learnd correct there shouldnt be any difference between Futaba, Spectrum, ...

Or they spin up -10° Pitch or something in 4 or first in 11...

[FredrikMelin72]

Now in reality, if he has not got a 12FG or other of those Futaba, he's running the governor at 100% in reality

He get less performance than Align and he's not happy with Kontronik at all.

He even get less flighttime because his blades are spinning that much faster and it sucks the power out of the packs.

This is every day life with the current manual/way of programming on the Jive, for me, and for many others helping people with Jives.

[FredrikMelin72]

There is difference, I think its the Futaba "Module" radios (12FG if memory serves me right) where there is no overhead.

But put yourself in this situation;

Average Joe flies an Align ESC, running 80% throttle he heard that Kontronik was the best there is, so he get's his Kontronik, runs it at 80%.

Average Joe does not own a Tach, he just flies.

[SebalexxDE]

It's not needed to do these adjustments, only thing you do, is getting some more resolution, which you wont feel or need using the gov-mode.

The % of the Display will never show the real % of the motor-rpm, the jive is setting up a rpm-range in gov-modes, this range ist not even near by the % of the transmitter display anyway... ;-)

And if you compare 2 Jive Setups, you can do this learning both in standard way. Every way is never comparable to other brands.

Don't use english often - sorry.

[PD5DJ]

Excellent tutorial!

Stange kontronik doesnt mention anything about the ATV adjustments.

[laureanodiaz]

Very clear explanation of endpoints. Thanks MrMel for taking the time!

[jrockstuart]

Thank you MrMel for making this video.