"Telestial": Misadventures in Mormon Linguistics!

[420BurnaBlunt]

religion is obscured truth. good bullshit stories for the majority of people on earth to live predictable brainwashed behaviors blindly following: those weak minded Hu-mans with poor cognitive metaphysical understandings.

[StorminMormin91]

For one who claims to be educated in linguistics and etymology, you sure don't know squat when it comes to the word telestial. Might I suggest looking into "teleiotes," “telos," and “teleiomai” before making claims that you can only back up with opinion and hearsay?

[StorminMormin91]

@StorminMormin91 Indeed, this video surely does speak for itself. As tonganpiper said, it is an interesting topic and one that deserves much study and not rash assumptions.

[prolefeedprocessor]

@StorminMormin91 (cont) Smith revision of the Bible in which there is an English word "telestial". It simply is not a word in the English language. So suspending reality and supposing that these verses had one of those words you mentioned, why wouldn't he translate it to a word that existed? The point of TRANSLATION is to convert words from one language into words from another, not make up new words. And there was hardly a need to invent a new word to translate any of those you mentioned.

[prolefeedprocessor]

@StorminMormin91 First of all, I did NOT say I was educated in linguistics and etymology. I said I have a great concern about them. Second of all, the first two words you mentioned have to do with purpose/perfection, and the third with mystery. Neither of those things are categorically comparable to "heaven" ("celestial") and "earth" ("terrestrial"), which refer very literally to places and not to ideas. Third, and most importantly, there is not a single instance outside of the Joseph (cont)

[prolefeedprocessor]

@StorminMormin91 Although it matters very little. The whole JST is an argument from ignorance. As though uncertainty as to the fullness of the translation of the Bible is license to believe that a man with no formal training and a penchant for storytelling accurately fixed holes in Bible translations.

But in this particular instance, Occam's Razor points to the idea that he didn't know what celestial or terrestrial meant, and thought they were titles, and meshed them together into a third one.

[tonganpiper]

Very interesting video and topic prolefeedprocessor!

[violentlygraceful]

An interesting note about Urim and Thummim: Saul himself used them in 1 Samuel 14:41. This was later edited out of the Masoretic Text, so it's important to read a translation of the Hebrew Bible which isn't based entirely on that (like the NRSV and, surprisingly, the conservative ESV left it in).

[Zepher50]

Hardly is it fair for you to critizise someone when your best counter explanation is "I don't know what the hell."

I'm sure Jesus is proud of you.

[prolefeedprocessor]

That wasn't a counter-argument. That was the "real definition" of "telestial". I was listing what the words actually mean in real life. Unlike "celestial" and "terrestrial", "telestial" didn't have an actual definition for Joseph to deviate from in the first place. Hence "I don't know what the hell". I have a very full understanding of the Mormon afterlife doctrine, having lived in Utah for 6 years. Go strawman elsewhere.

Also, I'm not very concerned about the opinions of dead preachers.

[Zepher50]

If I live next door to a Jew it doesn't make me an expert on Judaism.

And if you didn't care this video wouldn't exist.

[prolefeedprocessor]

Back up. Back up. I said I didn't care about the opinions of dead preachers. As in Jesus. That had nothing to do with the existence of this video. I actually explained why it exists at the end.

And living in Utah where everyone is Mormon made learning all of this a necessity. So learn I did. Living next to a Jew wouldn't necessitate becoming something of an expert, but living in Israel sure might.

[prolefeedprocessor]

Well, at least his is cohesive and someone convincing to someone who hadn't researched the backstory. But my example of good/well-done bullshit would be the gospels that invented a census in order to contrive the birth of Jesus into Bethlehem.