@Warblade118 It's all personal opinion. I also prefer the sound of standard headers but I wanted this car to sound different. When I build another car it will have standard headers and no gear drive. As far as 180 degree headers making more power, that is debatable. From the info I found it is harder to tune vehicles with 180 degree headers to make maximum power so it is very possable I had less power then with standard headers. any way I feel the difference would be minimal at best.
@Warblade118 just an example. Pro Stock drag engines all use standar headers. Most of these racers have a big enough budget that they can and I am sure many have tried 180 degree headers but none of them are useing them. I am sure if they only found 1 or 2 HP with 180 degree headers that they would be using them. Even NASCAR. In the 80's some of the teams where expermenting with and using 180 degree headers but I can't think of any useing them now. If they made more HP they would use them
@rayar66 wow, 2 paragraphs of exposition from a little comment? I'm not trying to be rude or anything but you're preaching to the converted. I've read quite a few detailed articles on the science behind different types and styles of headers already. Interesting stuff.
@rayar66 I read somewhere they figured out they can get the same benefits of 180 headers with well designed exhaust...like well placed cross overs for example
@rayar66 reason they changed to "standard" headers is because they changed the firing order so that they would work with normal headers so that they wouldent need the 180s 180 headers are harder to make and take up alot of room
@citydriver True that they did a 4-7 swap but that does not do the same thing as 180 Degree headers. The only way you can get evenly spaced exhaust pulses left and right with standard headers on a V8 is with a flat plane crank.. Remember the old Ford 302 having a different fireing order then the 351W. It was because it essentially had 2 cylinders swapped just like a 4-7 swap cam on a chevy. Just moved the uneven pulses elsewhere.
Your talking about flat planed cranks versus a cross planed crank....sorta a little vague with 90 degree and 180 degree, like you were talking about the angle of the banks...
Wow, i don't like how that exhaust sounds at all. I think it's cool, don't get me wrong. Just not for me. It kinda sounds like my Cavalier revving lol. But bottom line, who cares how it sounds if it's making that kind of power!.
they are able to rev so high because the cyl strokes are very short compared to american cars that have a longer stroke so they cannot rev as high. which is also why ferraris are typically 4-5 liters and american v8s are 6-7. just because your name is civic you already are an idiot. the number of valves doesnt affect sound at all. luxury american v8s are usually 32 valve and they dont sound like ferraris
Stroke doesn't have all that much effect on the way an engine sounds. A Maserati v8 and a Ferrari v8 are essentially the same engine (very close dimensionally, identical architecture etc) but the Maserati sounds much different. It is because it is a 90* v8 instead of a 180* v8 like the Ferrari. This is principally the defining characteristic of an engine's sound.
Nice friend, how much does the headers cost? Can you help me with something? I have a inline 6, the firing order is 153624. If I dump the center 4 in one pipe and the other 2 in the other pipe, will I get a v8rumble. 1(53)6(24), I wish they sell headers like this, cause I care for sound not much in proformance...
Yes and no. At Idle it still has the typical Amercan V8 rumble. At Higher RPM's it sounds somewhat like a Ferrari but I think it sounds more like an American V6.
isnt that sound distinguishable also because the ferrari's v8's are flat plane (like the e92 m3) rather than cross plane like a ls-1? so they sound like 2 inline 4's...
Thats a very good sound I like it its not loud and abnoxious like alot of other 350s. I like a nice clean sound like that. more info about your setup please, what mufflers your using and resonators.
I started by useing to Shoenfeld 3X6 inch Circle track mufflers and after my first event with them I was given a warning to quiet the car by the event chair. The Shoenfelds didn't seem to quiet the car at all. I had some 3 inch Summit turbo mufflers laying around so I put those on after the Shoenfeld mufflers and it is pretty quiet now.
then why have the shoenfelds at all then. How about ditching both and and getting some single chamber Flowmasters. Or maybe Borlas or Magnaflows. Anything but Turbos!
First off, there is nothing wrong with a decent set of 3 inch I/O turbo mufflers at the power level I am at. Why do you hate turbo mufflers so much? The Shoenfelds are tucked up by the firewall and would be a bitch to remove. The Turbo mufflers I had so I used them. Single chambered flowmasters would be too loud and I don't care for the trash can sound of chambered mufflers anyways. I doubt I am losing very much if any horsepower with the setup I have now so it stays.IMHO the quieter the better
Turbos just aren't my cup of tea. In the end though I guess they aren't as important as the header. As impractical as they are, they're a masterpiece. How much does a set go for these days? Do 180's have to be custom made? Are they stainless?
The headers are just off the shelf Shoenfeld 180 degree crossover headers that I usually see used on dirt late models. mild steel and made of very lightweight tubeing. chances are I will need to buy another set withen a couple years. BTW, I just did the 180's because I wanted a unique sound out of this car, same thing with the gear drive. If I had to do it all over again I would stay with standard headers and a decent double roller timing set. I will admit that it was bad thinking on my part.
They give do give it a cool sound. People say they kinda like a flatplane Ferrari V8. Seems like 180's are made more for mid engine cars like Panteras and the original GT40's. Haven't seen too many front engine cars with them. And I agree on with you on the gear drive over timing chains. Sounds a million times better (especially when they're straight cut). But I'm a big fan of hearing parts moving.
Sounds great! When IMCA modifieds first came out, almost all of them had 180 headers and sounded just like this. For some reason now, most of them just run short headers with cones now...
A lot of people don't care for the sound and feel it should sound like a V8,I just wanted something different for this car. At events most people assume that I am running a V6. I used to have conventional headers on this car but was running into exhaust pipe
clearance issues so I was looking for another option when I found these on EBAY. They where a PITA to install and required cutting and rebuilding most of my firewall not to mention loosing the ability to take a passenger for a ride.
I apreciate the effort, I've wanted to do 180 degree headers on my Commodore but there is an extreme lack of room. I'm actually amazed you got them in this car, doesn't look like much room
Thanks, I plan to get some video autocrossing this spring. Definatly will have some in car footage and maybe I can get someone to video outside. Definatly love the sound of 180 degree headers.
I actually have 4 mufflers on the engine. The first 2 are just some short 3"X6" Shoenfeld mufflers mounted about 6 inches away from the collectors, They didn't quiet the car at all and the Event chair at the first event I was at was complaining so I added a couple of Summit Turbo mufflers that you can see in my video. Those are mounted under the passenger seat area. As you can see one muffler is in front of the other because there is very little room under a 3rd gen
huh...I thing standard headers sound better, even though they don't make as much power.
Warblade118 1 year ago
@Warblade118 It's all personal opinion. I also prefer the sound of standard headers but I wanted this car to sound different. When I build another car it will have standard headers and no gear drive. As far as 180 degree headers making more power, that is debatable. From the info I found it is harder to tune vehicles with 180 degree headers to make maximum power so it is very possable I had less power then with standard headers. any way I feel the difference would be minimal at best.
rayar66 1 year ago
@Warblade118 just an example. Pro Stock drag engines all use standar headers. Most of these racers have a big enough budget that they can and I am sure many have tried 180 degree headers but none of them are useing them. I am sure if they only found 1 or 2 HP with 180 degree headers that they would be using them. Even NASCAR. In the 80's some of the teams where expermenting with and using 180 degree headers but I can't think of any useing them now. If they made more HP they would use them
rayar66 1 year ago
@rayar66 wow, 2 paragraphs of exposition from a little comment? I'm not trying to be rude or anything but you're preaching to the converted. I've read quite a few detailed articles on the science behind different types and styles of headers already. Interesting stuff.
Warblade118 1 year ago
@rayar66 I read somewhere they figured out they can get the same benefits of 180 headers with well designed exhaust...like well placed cross overs for example
importsstillsuck 11 months ago
@rayar66 any rules in nhra or nascar that doesnt allow 180 headers? you never know. racing series have lots of rules and regulations.
that said nhra has used the same formula for a long time and it isnt necessarily because its the all out fastest.
Euphorica 11 months ago
@rayar66 reason they changed to "standard" headers is because they changed the firing order so that they would work with normal headers so that they wouldent need the 180s 180 headers are harder to make and take up alot of room
citydriver 2 months ago
@citydriver True that they did a 4-7 swap but that does not do the same thing as 180 Degree headers. The only way you can get evenly spaced exhaust pulses left and right with standard headers on a V8 is with a flat plane crank.. Remember the old Ford 302 having a different fireing order then the 351W. It was because it essentially had 2 cylinders swapped just like a 4-7 swap cam on a chevy. Just moved the uneven pulses elsewhere.
rayar66 2 months ago
@Warblade118 Really? you think better on stock? I love that different note added. Sounds more high and different
stangredemption 3 months ago in playlist 180 degree headers
@xr4turbo
Your talking about flat planed cranks versus a cross planed crank....sorta a little vague with 90 degree and 180 degree, like you were talking about the angle of the banks...
VDZRIDER 1 year ago
Wow, i don't like how that exhaust sounds at all. I think it's cool, don't get me wrong. Just not for me. It kinda sounds like my Cavalier revving lol. But bottom line, who cares how it sounds if it's making that kind of power!.
Ph0enyx1978 1 year ago
it sounds like two fours, no?
odinandme 2 years ago
Can you take more videos of the car? Like how it sounds accelerating?
XR4turbo 2 years ago
Just look at my pager. I have quite a few in car videos that have been posted for more then a year now
rayar66 2 years ago
what fuel pump you run?
fatjoe1114 2 years ago
Just an old school Holley Blue that I have had laying around for 20 years or so.
rayar66 2 years ago
The reason for the lack of the high pitched exotic sound is because of your 2 valve cylinder heads Ferrari are 4 valve and in a certain year 5 valve.
A 4 cam v8 would come closer to the high pitched sound but it would also have to have a similar port shape..
MidShipCivic 2 years ago
nope you're wrong.
storminmormondd 2 years ago
Uh no retard you're wrong 2 valves odd shaped port nothing close to the engineering of a Ferrari in in fact it sounds bland.
MidShipCivic 2 years ago
Just picture a honda f20c compared to a chevy iron duke. Thats essentially the difference between a Ferrari V8 and Chevy V8.
XR4turbo 2 years ago
they are able to rev so high because the cyl strokes are very short compared to american cars that have a longer stroke so they cannot rev as high. which is also why ferraris are typically 4-5 liters and american v8s are 6-7. just because your name is civic you already are an idiot. the number of valves doesnt affect sound at all. luxury american v8s are usually 32 valve and they dont sound like ferraris
storminmormondd 2 years ago
Stroke doesn't have all that much effect on the way an engine sounds. A Maserati v8 and a Ferrari v8 are essentially the same engine (very close dimensionally, identical architecture etc) but the Maserati sounds much different. It is because it is a 90* v8 instead of a 180* v8 like the Ferrari. This is principally the defining characteristic of an engine's sound.
XR4turbo 2 years ago
@XR4turbo iron duke wasn't chevy... :p
TommyRocker919 1 year ago
Nice friend, how much does the headers cost? Can you help me with something? I have a inline 6, the firing order is 153624. If I dump the center 4 in one pipe and the other 2 in the other pipe, will I get a v8rumble. 1(53)6(24), I wish they sell headers like this, cause I care for sound not much in proformance...
evilperson86u 2 years ago
The headers cost about $250 from most circle track suppliers. I got these off of EBAY for $100. Couldn't answear your question on the 6 cyl.
rayar66 2 years ago
sounds like a ferrari
Shmokn 3 years ago
Yes and no. At Idle it still has the typical Amercan V8 rumble. At Higher RPM's it sounds somewhat like a Ferrari but I think it sounds more like an American V6.
rayar66 3 years ago
Thank you for doing what I have been curious about for years. I love the sound. Now put 4 48 IDA Webers on it and do some driving videos!
tylerkb12 3 years ago
I probably have 8-9 in car autocross videos with the posted here.
rayar66 2 years ago
isnt that sound distinguishable also because the ferrari's v8's are flat plane (like the e92 m3) rather than cross plane like a ls-1? so they sound like 2 inline 4's...
iamhedgecore 2 years ago
Thats a very good sound I like it its not loud and abnoxious like alot of other 350s. I like a nice clean sound like that. more info about your setup please, what mufflers your using and resonators.
3star2nr 3 years ago
I started by useing to Shoenfeld 3X6 inch Circle track mufflers and after my first event with them I was given a warning to quiet the car by the event chair. The Shoenfelds didn't seem to quiet the car at all. I had some 3 inch Summit turbo mufflers laying around so I put those on after the Shoenfeld mufflers and it is pretty quiet now.
rayar66 3 years ago
I wanna hear it without the turbo mufflers on it. I bet it sounds even better with nothing but the Shoenfelds on it.
lurch420 3 years ago
Thats not going to happen. Most of our events are held in residential areas. A loud car could cause complaints meaning we could lose that location.
rayar66 3 years ago
then why have the shoenfelds at all then. How about ditching both and and getting some single chamber Flowmasters. Or maybe Borlas or Magnaflows. Anything but Turbos!
lurch420 3 years ago
First off, there is nothing wrong with a decent set of 3 inch I/O turbo mufflers at the power level I am at. Why do you hate turbo mufflers so much? The Shoenfelds are tucked up by the firewall and would be a bitch to remove. The Turbo mufflers I had so I used them. Single chambered flowmasters would be too loud and I don't care for the trash can sound of chambered mufflers anyways. I doubt I am losing very much if any horsepower with the setup I have now so it stays.IMHO the quieter the better
rayar66 3 years ago
Turbos just aren't my cup of tea. In the end though I guess they aren't as important as the header. As impractical as they are, they're a masterpiece. How much does a set go for these days? Do 180's have to be custom made? Are they stainless?
lurch420 3 years ago
The headers are just off the shelf Shoenfeld 180 degree crossover headers that I usually see used on dirt late models. mild steel and made of very lightweight tubeing. chances are I will need to buy another set withen a couple years. BTW, I just did the 180's because I wanted a unique sound out of this car, same thing with the gear drive. If I had to do it all over again I would stay with standard headers and a decent double roller timing set. I will admit that it was bad thinking on my part.
rayar66 3 years ago
They give do give it a cool sound. People say they kinda like a flatplane Ferrari V8. Seems like 180's are made more for mid engine cars like Panteras and the original GT40's. Haven't seen too many front engine cars with them. And I agree on with you on the gear drive over timing chains. Sounds a million times better (especially when they're straight cut). But I'm a big fan of hearing parts moving.
lurch420 3 years ago
Sounds great! When IMCA modifieds first came out, almost all of them had 180 headers and sounded just like this. For some reason now, most of them just run short headers with cones now...
phaedrus44 3 years ago
Awesome, almost like a Ferrari :)
greenfoam 4 years ago
A lot of people don't care for the sound and feel it should sound like a V8,I just wanted something different for this car. At events most people assume that I am running a V6. I used to have conventional headers on this car but was running into exhaust pipe
clearance issues so I was looking for another option when I found these on EBAY. They where a PITA to install and required cutting and rebuilding most of my firewall not to mention loosing the ability to take a passenger for a ride.
rayar66 4 years ago
I apreciate the effort, I've wanted to do 180 degree headers on my Commodore but there is an extreme lack of room. I'm actually amazed you got them in this car, doesn't look like much room
greenfoam 4 years ago
it sounds so smooth its wierd. no you just need to take a video of a full throttle pass.
aaron9696024 4 years ago
Thanks, I plan to get some video autocrossing this spring. Definatly will have some in car footage and maybe I can get someone to video outside. Definatly love the sound of 180 degree headers.
rayar66 4 years ago
what is the length from the headers to the muffler?
aaron9696024 4 years ago
I actually have 4 mufflers on the engine. The first 2 are just some short 3"X6" Shoenfeld mufflers mounted about 6 inches away from the collectors, They didn't quiet the car at all and the Event chair at the first event I was at was complaining so I added a couple of Summit Turbo mufflers that you can see in my video. Those are mounted under the passenger seat area. As you can see one muffler is in front of the other because there is very little room under a 3rd gen
rayar66 4 years ago