I used the DRX9000 Cervical unit. I had a shoulder injury and pinched a nerve in my lower neck.....was not sleeping at night...after 3 treatments I was sleeping all night....this machine worked for me and I highly recommend it....
Don't wait another moment to pick up the phone and call us at EXECUTIVE EXPRESS CHIROPRACTIC for your free consultation ! We are here to help you get out of pain or help someone you love.
Mr McFly you should take a look at all the research that has been done on the DRX9000. There is not a single decompression device or traction device on the market that has anywhere near the reasearch the DRX9000 has on it. You can email Excite Medical (the new manufacturer) for copies of all the research. Please do you due dillegence prior to posting!
By the way this is just traction. It also doesen't matter if it's FDA cleared. The FDA doesen't give a shit if the device works, or medications work. FDA cleared drugs have killed millions of Americans so You can't count on the FDA at all.
People should just try inversion therapy. This shit is way overpriced. Also cut back on the weight, and take supplements. I went for this treatment myself and didn't relieve my pain like inversion. So far what has helped a lot is inversion, nubax trio and taking supplements, good nutrition and even though im injured I look a lot better than other poeple who don't have an injury.
We have a DRX9000 in our office and we've had alot of success. You have to use chiro or PT in conjunction with it. Also, patients can't go golf or work in the garden in between sessions. this is why it most likely doesnt work. patients dont listen to the guidelines. those are the ones we havent had success. listen to what the DC or PT tells you!
hello everyone, i am using drx9000 for 2 weeks now, i choosed to go in a not painfull period so that my muscles and discs can handle the pressure that is being done..yesterday was my 12th therapy session and today my back is killing me..i can barelly stand up..my therapist said this could happen...i have 8 more sessions...please tell me there is gonna be some improvement in the end...i'm 25 and i suffer since i was 14...
@GRstavroula go to a chiropractor (who can actually adjust) not a PT or therapist. get adjustments along with the DRX. Also, we've found that patients who dont respond start responding by getting their hamstrings massaged. stretch too.
I thought this system would cure my problem but i didnt. I personally used this treatment for a month in order to fix my L4-L5 herniated disc, but I didn't got relieved from the pain. I have tried everything so far now I have 2 weeks of acupunture but still no pain relieved , my last resort is to inject ozone gas into the herniated disc. If I get cured I'll be glad to share my experience with y'all.
your wrong. it works. we've had at least 100 patients recover completely. doesnt work for old stubbern men though. they play golf in between sessions.
I work in a chiro clinic and we have a 90% success rate with this machine!! It is NOT in anyway traction. If you would read and learn a bit more on this you would eat your words
@LegPains I can only theorize and I would have to say that my educated guess would be that the pain can stay the same if you have constant tissue deformation on pain sensitive tissues and they are never released. It is also possible that if the tissue is finally released that the exposed nociceptive tissues could give you other pain symptoms as they are no longer being compressed and may be like a raw injury; theoretically speaking.
so you would agree with me that in my unique rare individual case , what you said about Timing and placebo are absolute nonsense and non applicable ?
im Not denying they can apply in other more conventional standard cases, absolutely, but in no way whatsoever can they possibly apply in my case, given my incredible Pain history thats ridiculous to even remotely consider that claim.
thats certainly possible, or is it also just as possible that my L5 S1 disc is wedged tightly in that Neural Foramina and NOTHING so far has been able to budge it at all , sort of like a rock in your shoe that is lodged in there so no matter how you walk or how much time passes unless you are able to PHysically move that rock, your pain will never change ?
that is my best guess and sounds perfectly logical to me
@LegPains that is basically constant deformation. If that tissue can be moved by opening up vertebrae, they only have so much accessory motion avaiable to them. That motion can be manipulated with ANY traction machine so playing with algorthyms will not change this. It's like bouncing a rock 5 times in 5 seconds versus 20 times in 10 seconds; is one better than the other? I don't think so. If you bang it long enough, maybe it will come loose, but wether is time or settings is all speculative
You might be correct perhaps surgery is my Only Option , or perhaps 4 sessions on the DTS were simply not enough for a severe case like mine, However it still stands to say that it is intellectually dishonest for you to say that IF Drx or Vax D got me Pain free or significant reduction in 4 or 5 treatments, that its IMPOSSIBLE for it to be due to the DRX and VAX D, and it must be Placebo or timing , given my history
@LegPains I sent you information which shows how lies were used by DRX which got them into trouble in Oregon and also in Canada. This is enough to make me stay away and not trust them; they can't back up their claims. However, again, to me it's traction, so use it and if it helps that is all that matters.
i remember reading that the Axiom who makes the DRX lied about the technology supposedly in their computers were developed by NASA which was their claim in their sales literature and then was proved to be false.
which may be true perhaps they blatantly lied about that, ill take it for whats worth and say even if that were true, that doesnt change the fact that people are out there saying it cured them when traction failed them
@LegPains Well, there is a pattern of lies building up and they don't have the valid study's they claim to have. Google Kennedy table and have a discussion with J Kennedy. I purchased the Kennedy table for simple reasons; they admit it's traction, the table is more versatile for positioning patients which is very important as positions effect the pressures on the spine. Kennedy also has info. relative to DRX etc..
i heard about the Kennedy Table a few weeks ago on a discussion group and read up on it briefly on a few sites selling them , and i have to admit i was impressed by it from what i read and saw, i would love to try one but im not aware of anyone in my area that uses one.
Just curious, what do you think about what i mentioned earlier about People who claimed Traction didnt help them but DRX and VAX did, are they all lying ?
@LegPains What do you think about people who claim that magnets helped them when nothing else ever helped them? How about the commercial where they throw someone off balance, put this metal bracelet on them, now they are more sturdy. Anytime you are asked to do a task, then repeat the task, your body adjusts so the company took advantage of this normal physiologic adaptation and are trying to fool the public. The point is that there are always hidden variables and unless u know the exact circum
@LegPains: Listen, I would be surprised if any manufacturer of a product didn't find a fan club to claim it was the best thing since sliced bread. How about those who have claimed the DTS helped them and the DRX didn't? YOu don't think they exist? To me it means that traction helped them at the time they had it. Maybe the settings were better for the patient, but that could be determined manually, not via a computer. The computer won't do any better job. In-fact if I see how my pt's respond
I can then make adjustments in POSITION as well as pull force, and timing. I'd rather trust the patient's responses and assume the computer can read the patient's mind.
the Dr. who put me on the Triton DTS left the room so there was No one Monitoring anything, he simply set the machine at the desired settings and walked away and returned 20 mins later, there was no adjusting or calibrating of anything or watching me during the process at any time
i fully agree with you every product has its fan club , im not disputing that, but what i am saying is ive yet to hear from ANY Dr. or clinic who has been dissapointed with the results they got using the DRX or VAX D . Im not aware of Anyone who has said that they used the DRX and got dissapointing results , and then used the DTS and got great results. Are you aware of anyone in that category ?
@LegPains I have definitely heard of those who were not helped... why? Because I'm in the field and I talk with others. The reason it didn't help is because the patient's were not candidates for Traction; plain and simple.
People are charging CASH to go on these things. How would you like to spend thousands and feel you've been ripped off? You have an investment to feel better and that does play into results. Also, traction is BAD for some patients & the money prevents many providers l
from doing the right thing. Suppose someone is NOT a traction candidate. If you load is low enough, you won't hurt them; it might feel good even if you aren't changing anything. It's called Codman's response. You are jiggling mechanoreceptors which can modulate pain; it doesn't mean anything anatomically beneficial occurred. However, if they were caring providers, they would have told the person actual traction won't help them structurally.
Let me ask you directly , and i fully understand its just your opinion and its not an official diagnosis obviously , that goes without saying of course, but based on my Lumbar MRI do you feel i would be a good candidate for Traction ?
and im completely agreeing with you in that i have also talked with people who claimed the DRX did not help them . so im not disputing that at all, However on a broad basis in a clinical setting seeing lots of patients i have heard from Drs who claim traction such as the DTS got them very inferior results as opposed to the DRX and VAX D.
are they Lying ? perhaps thats impossible to say, however thats what they claim
@LegPains if someone has a loose annular (hard disc) fragment in the foramen, traction can pull that piece of hard disc up against a nerve root and cause harm. However, if the amplitude is low enough, it may oscillate the mechanoreceptors and feel kinda good. People can believe something anatomically changed, but it didn't.
True, but obviously that ' good feeling' will not last and will only be temporary , let me say once more , and i know you are going to think im a DRX salesman, but im just being completely honest
Every single case ive read or heard about or talked to so far who has been helped by the DRX has claimed it was permanent and the Pain symptoms never returned, There seems to be no middle ground , either it helps or it totally fails
@LegPains Let's use some common sense here. If you have 'material' in your spine that is causing a disruption of any kind and it stays there, it will always have a potential to disrupt pain-sensitive tissues. Traction (which is what the DRX is, remember, they have to call it decompression so they can charge cash for it), will not remove the obstructing tissues; this is 'anatomic.' Now, IF there is a way to open the joints to the point that the material can 'shift' somehow, out of the way
(continued ) out of the way, and the pain sensitive tissues do not touch the material in your spine, then you won't have pain. The vertebrae, facet joints, have about 3mm of movement available to them; so, even if some relief is afforded, it is possible that weight bearing activities can cause impingement again. Also, think about this, what is DRX doing to remove pressure on pain sensitive tissues? I'ts PULLING! That is exactly what traction is! DRX is Traction; I prefer figuring out what
so you dont buy the Theory that ' Disc Decompression' opens up the Vertebrae which brings in a Vaccuum effect that sucks the disc material back in its place where it was originally ?
evidently the DRX Machine does seem to know what its doing and might know best as the Machine has a massive success rate . What you are saying about you would rather Manipulate the settings and find out what works best sounds very Logical and might be the ideal way to go , However that doesnt change the facts that the DRX has gotten and continues to get a very high success rate so its obviously doin something right
@LegPains Tell me how many people who spent over $150K are going to reveal their failure rate? How many people who have spent $5K for a myriad of sessions will want to admit they lost money; well some actually do, but many try to find the positive when they've spent so much of their own money. As I said before, if a healthcare provider treats 100 people & 7 do well, do you think he will tell you about the other 93 who didn't fair so well?
@LegPains (continued) what works best for patients by manipulating the settings and seeing how the patient responds as opposed to pushing a button and assume the machine knows best. The patient can't ask the machine questions so the machines adjusts itself. The algorithm to work itself through involuntary guarding/spams from traction is an invented phenomenon and does not exist in the world of realy.
@LegPains There is a chiro in our area who uses DTS. He's got a boat load of testimonials about how DTS has helped them. I believe it has and I believe DRX has helped people, but not because of algorhytms, rather, because traction was beneficial regardless of the unit. At least with my unit I can have them in any position I want.
@LegPains Oliveri Chiropractic in Rio Grande, NJ has DTS. He chose DTS over that of DRX because he knows it's no better than DTS. I bought Kennedy because I need the flexibility of positioning patients. Now I might get results on my Kennedy that he doesn't on his DTS or vice versa. Too many variables to know why. It could be we caught the patient at the right time so therefore respective patients will claim one table is better than the other. Tired dude, going to bed c u
Listen man, i want to thank you immensely for having the paitence and curteousy for talking with me in depth on this, and giving me your honest views and Opinions, you have made me step back and think about all this on a much deeper level than i had before , thats for sure
and its very Possible you could be absolutely correct about the DRX , Understand its difficult for us as Patients to tell fact from Error
@LegPains One last question for now. If you had 500 people try each of the available machines and they were blind folded to minimize the psychological effects of seeing such an amazing looking machine, do you or do you not realize that each table will have differing choices? Do you realize that if the test was done over and over again, there is a high likelihood that the patient's will choose a different table? Claims that one is better of the other are irrelevant.
im assuming we have 500 People with very similar disc issues ? Also im not sure what you mean by saying each table will have ' differing choices ' . Yes i agree obviously visually the DRX appears like something out of a science fiction movie , which in itself draws people to it im not disputing that at all.
But its entirely possible that the best looking machine is also the best performing one at the same time
@LegPains I would not consider a machine better performing if you rely on it's presets. There are study's regarding symptom responses to movements and the sort; indicating that the patient's response is the best guage..; NOT leaving it up to a computer to guess. There is NO REACTIVE spasming that occurs with traction, hence, it's a gimmick.
a great Example , here is a direct quote from Dr. Marks on his video here titled ORANGE COUNTY CA SPINAL DECOMPRESSION
' Costs being equal which Im sure they are now, I would do a DRX, then an Accu-Spina or Lordex (both face up position), then VAX-D then Triton.
Drs using Triton DTS and similar units always say its the same but its not. I've used very advanced Orthion traction units in past, but they did not come close to the results I get with the DRX '
@LegPains just look at the physiology and the available of accessory movement of vertebrae. It is what it is, you pull on it, some do better with shorter cycles, some do better with longer cycles. That is it. IF the DTS didn't work, maybe they should change their settings. That might be the only difference between the DRX and DTS and the DTS can be set to any setting you want, so can the Kennedy table. The computer sensing patient resistance is a joke.
" DRX pulls and then senses pt resistance and lets go then pulls again like 17x/sec, to keep from causing reactive spasm. Triton DTS cant do that, Triton is the same as older traction and that was always iffy on if it worked or not. It could work for some ppl, but overwhelming majority of DRX Patients get relief when They have already tried traction and failed. '
@LegPains that's the point THERE IS NO PATIENT RESISTANCE! If they are guarded out of fear or pain, you let them have a few cycles of tract and they get use to it instantly. It's a MARKETING PLOY! If they claim the DRX helped them, then traction helped them.
@LegPains I agree with them about Traction also. However, there is a difference with how I present and use said treatments. More studies need to be done on traction; we don't deny this. However, if someone gets pain relief while they are on and after they get off, that's a reasonable response, even for the DRX. It's the EXTRA claims they make I take issue with.
@LegPains REACTIVE SPASM DOES NOT OCCUR - It's a Marketing Ploy that for some reasons chiro's who bought it simply trusted them instead of researched it. Reactive Spasming DOES NOT HAPPEN!
@LegPains DRX Pulls, you see? What is 'pulling?' It's traction.. The idea of reactive muscle spasming or guarding is BOGUS! IT DOES NOT HAPPEN! You mentioned something about someone setting things and leaving the room. Once it's set up, that's fine. However, I have a patient now who I have to place into lumbar extension and then add the traction to best help him. He responds best to prone, with lumbar ext, with the traction. DRX: He'd be forced to lay supine & w/out extension.
' Ive been practicing using various forms of traction since 1986. My research lead me to use a DRX 9000 in my office. I have also been a patient on my own DRX 9000 machine for my L5 disc that herniated in 2008. I have completely recovered and lead a very active life. VAX D and DRX are superior to Traction '
@LegPains Any traction machine can be set to the same settings of any other traction machine. It's pull hold time, release time and force. You can graduate the pressure to make it increasingly stronger or not.. it's just settings and THEY ALL can be changed and it's better to do it based on patient responses as opposed to a computer arbitrarily doing it & trying to sense something that DOES NOT exist, like guarding to passive traction. If they have fear they relax as the treatment is comfortable
@LegPains Opinion and anecdote.. Why do people get better after using my Kennedy table? Why do many get better after using DTS? The same reason why the get better after DRX. EVERY patient does not get better on any of them as there are conditions which are not amenable to traction. For example, if you pull on the spine & there's an annular fragment caught in the foramen, it can cause the annular piece to push into a nerve root.
@LegPains You asked me if I think these traction machines will help you, which they are all traction machines regardless of them lying about that fact. Considering how long it's been there, it's like to have fibrosed over and will be immoveable. FIbrosed is like a hardening and scarring, etc.. and it becomes fixed to what it is attached basically. Therefore, I don't hold a lot of faith with any of the traction devices for you.However, if u use it & it helps you that's all that matters.
ive often thought of that myself, if after over 12 yrs of being like this if My L5 S1 is not stuck in there so tight and Fibrosed so that surgery is the only option. However, do you ascribe any significance to the fact that after all this time my symptoms have Not changed ?
My location of Pain and severity is the same as it was way back in 97, zero progression or degressed . VERY rare huh ?
An instructor of mine once said, "It's a Pink Floyd Concert In There." Basically we still don't have all answers & all sorts of symptoms & presentations can occur. I find it unusual that it doesn't alter in accord w/gravitational forces. I know what I would do, I'd try ATM2 for a while. There's no reason you can't try things, so if you want to try traction try the DRX if you'd like, also try the ATM2. I'd do what I could with said devices & if I was really really annoyed, I'd consider surgery
ive already decided after over 12 yrs of this Leg Pain there is no doubt in my mind i will commit suicide if i cant resolve it. id rather Die and i absolutely will take my own life if i cant get out of this
i feel as if im in prison and i cant get out , i want to cut my legs off with a chain saw to get rid of the pain , so its either devices or Surgery . Although i have No health insurance
my Cash resources are Low from being scammed by all the fakes , frauds and liars out there. So if devices wont work and i cant get the Money for surgery , that only thing left for me is Death .
There are Thousands of people out there claiming that after they Tried everything for many years, the DRX and VAX D completely relieved their pain. I talked to one guy in AZ who said he was in excruciating Pain and his dr. reccommended surgery as his only Hope. He used VAX D way back in 1998 for only 3 weeks , and it relieved all his pain and it was a Permanent recovery and he now lifts heavy weights
i find it absolutely astonishing that its the Year 2010 and with all our Knowledge, science and education , there is still MASSIVE and polar opposite disagreement on how to simply correct spinal issues.
seems NO ONE agrees with anyone else on anything and there are a million different theories out there and EVERYONE is claiming they are righ t and everyone else is wrong. its all Subjective sadly with the spine
A person in my horrible vulnerable situation can go to 100 different Dr.s and Therapists and i will get 100 different and opposite opinions on what to do . There is only ONE Science of Human Anatomy that everyone agrees on and ONE set science of human physiology , as we ALL have the same body exact parts , Yet there is No agreement on how to fix the Patient.
its IMPOSSIBLE to know who to believe anymore , it makes me sick
only 1 Human Spine, however there are sooooooooooo Many different Machines, sooooooooo many different devices, sooooooooo many different philosophies on how to correct the Human Spine, everyone is out there contradicting everyone else and calling the ' other guy ' wrong, saying My Pet device is superior to yours and vice versa, sooooooooo many different concepts , i have NO idea what to do anymore : (
@LegPains That's why I post videos of my patient treatments so people can see a small sample of who I've helped. No, I won't be able to help everyone, nor will anyone else. We are all subject to the integrity of the damage and the causative lesion.
@LegPains I just look at the anatomy of the described problem and I make no promises. NO BODY knows what will work for you. They might suggest McKenzie because McKenzie is a valid approach and does achieve great results for many people, but they will tell u themselves they are subject to the integrity of the damage. No Body can provide you a definitive answer, nor should they. There are choices out there, so just try them. I recommend a combination of ATM2 & Tx based your described problems 1st
Every single Chiropractor, Osteopath, Physician, Therapist in existence that treats Spinal conditions in America are ALL claiming they have a very high success rate in remedying the Pain. Ive yet to hear any of them ever say they dont have a high success Rate.
Yet you look around and talk to people and NO ONE is actually getting well as MILLIONS of people such as myself are miserable and in massive Pain, whats goin on here ?
@LegPains if my suggestions of using ATM2 and spinal decomp don't cut it, visit a McK. practitioners and just see what happens. If they find they can't help you, then they will be honest about it and tell you. We are all subject to the integrity of the problem and it is possible that nothing will help.
@ProPTRehab Don't let this spam master sway your opinion. Check it out on your own and make your decision based on that not some advertising guru with a vested interest
Every single Dr and Therapist , without exception, says they have a ton of success stories with lots of people with very similar problem to mine and the next guy. Seems every single Dr and Therapist have all the answers and are out there fixing the spinal issues.
Yet Me and ' the next guy' which can be found on MILLIONS of mssg sites and other places are still in Massive Pain and we've been to TONS of Therapists . what gives
Let me just stop my theory type talk, and ask you directly , Given everything i told you about what my MRI states and my type and location of Leg Pain etc. Have you ever worked with a case like Mine ? Yes or No
@LegPains I have worked with people with similar MRI findings, but I could typically change their pain perception either provoking the pain or modulating the pain. I don't think the woman with the 40 year history of back pain has the same exact thing, but she has had 40 years of chronic back pain and the ATM2 has helped her.
I would absolutely try the ATM2 first because of how long you had the pain, but I'd still try the other options.
@LegPains I just read where you say weight bearing is the only thing that increases your pain; yes I have heard of this occurring. Compression is a problem for you, hence, why it makes sense to at least try traction, although the anatomical problem may not actually be resolvable. Even if I feel is might not be resolvable, I'm not opposed to trying Traction and of course the ATM2.
Heres what im hearing from all the Drs and Therapists out there,
You should Try DRX, do Not try DRX its a fraud , use Traction, do Not use Traction, Use Spine force, do Not use Spine Force, use ATM 2 , no ATM2 cant possibly correct your situation , VAX D is the same as DRX, No absolutely Not VAX D is totally different than DRX , the DRX is same as Traction, No its radically different and superior etc.
@LegPains DRX Claims ARE a fraud, but it's a form of traction, so if traction can help any of these traction devices can help; I just like that on the Kennedy table, I can position someone in prone or supine, not just supine like the DRX forces and not just prone like the VAX-D. They have to claim it's not traction in order to justify charging cash. It's also the only way they will convince health providers to spend $150K to buy the machine.
All im asking for is the Truth, and the only thing that can help me right now is truth, however it seems its Impossible to get with the Spine, its total Chaos and mass confusion with complete absolute contradiction everywhere
it has me so horribly sick to my stomach i want to vomit, its like ive been cast into Hell and i just want this back and forth confusion TO END ! as i just dont know how much longer i can take it
@LegPains It's not so hard to decide. Based upon what you described, I would try any of the traction devices, since you seem so enamored with DRX try it, but remember it's no better than any other Traction machine. Then try the ATM2. I wouldn't DEFINITELY go this route if I were you! If they don't work I would also try a Mckenzie certified PT who also has training in Brian Mulligan Procedures.
These are all main-stream treatments. You can contact backprojectDOTcom for the ATM2 practitioner
You can google Robin McKenzie Institute to find a McKenzie Practitioner and google Brian Mulligan PT. I would also participate in a stabilization exercise program. It's not as good as the ATM2, but you can do it on your own. Ask the PT's you visit about other stabilization exercises.
If NONE of these help, I might then opt for surgery.
speaking to what im talking about i have 2 mssgs in my mailbox ,
one Therapist said to me from here that McKenzie PT would definitely cure my situation and is the Ideal therapy for my case , and another PT said to me McKenzie exercises would have very little to no effect on my situation.
Which one is accurate ? Obviously they both cant be right, so who knows, This is positively Horrible situation to be in
@LegPains McKenzie is a GREAT protocol, it's one of the few approaches with a lot of research behind it. However, NOTHING is a cure-all. If you have a fibrosed annulus/disc, other.. that is solidified and obstructive, chances are it won't help. McKenzie is GREAT for Adherent Nerve Roots (if they are not too tightly bound - Nerve root adherence is where disc material adheres to a lumbar nerve root & has characteristic findings; it's GREAT for anterior & post REDUCIBLE discs & a host of problems
However, it won't help with everything, it won't remove something that is solidly solidified in place which won't move no matter what. IT IS worthwhile for a certified practitioner to evaluate you and you can go to the web site by googling for it and searching out a practitioner. He/She will tell you whether they can help or not.
@LegPains I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING! The McKenzie Institute uses LIVE demonstration models / patients during their course instructions. If you can contact the institute, they can evaluate you in front of a room full of physical therapists and chiro's. You will have an entire room full of people to evaluate you. In addition to this, I'd still try the traction (any of them, drx, kennedy, whatever) and the ATM2. Google the McKenzie Institute and write them a letter requesting to partake.
Its as if NO time has passed , the Pain in my Legs is no different today , than it was in 97, same level of flexibility, strength, pain level, NO worsening at all
My Understanding is that is ULTRA rare ! If a disc Fibrosed is there usually an increase in Pain over time ?
This same guy told me he NEVER needed to go back to the Machine , and he has not needed it since then, he currently is very active and STILL Pain free now after all those years and said he feels like a million dollars.
@LegPains I have a ton of people who claim the same with me! Claims with manual procedures as well as claims with regard to the machines I use. However, I don't claim I will be able to help everyone also note how I always use the term 'Theortically; as I converse with you. Everything is theoretical; those who don't do the same I have no respect for. Where do you see anything about theoretical model? They state everything to you as though factual, yet it turns out they have
' i have a ton of people who claim the same with me '
Thats too vague not sure what you are referring to, Please be more specific as to which machines or devices people say failed them but what you used and then helped them ?
A good example is i think our entire discussion hinges on a Dr's video here VAX D IS OPPOSITE OF TRACTION, now either that video is Factually True or its False , there is NO middle ground
@LegPains I don't expect people to take the word of those on my testimonials page. They claim what I did helped them. I can tell you that as I applied procedures they felt less pain and afterward they claimed to have less pain and it lasted. I don't care about the theoretical model, just that they feel better. As far as why they claim what they claim; how do you know there are tons of people claiming that DRX didn't help them but DTS did?
i absolutely believe and have no doubt that your only goal is helping your patients get better . What i dont understand is your reluctance to even consider the Possibility that the claims of DRX and VAX D are accurate, im NOT saying they are, but rather the possiblity that they may be, given you have absolutely No experience using one nor do you know personally any colleague who has either. Your Objection to their claims is theoretical
' how do you know there arent tons of people out there claiming that DRX didnt help them but DTS did ? '
well in Pouring over Hundreds of mssg area sites online and places like here speaking with everyone i possibly can to get any insight into my own condition, ive yet to hear of one single person that has claimed that, if you have please by all means tell me about it , as id be delighted to talk with them about it
I know people who have had decompression, it didn't help them, the ATM2 did. I've had people who the ATM2 didn't help, the spinal decompression did. I could place 10 tx machines in a row from diff companies. They could try a different 1 each day & not tell them which is which. I would bet $ that if they were blind to table being used, they would choose a diff table that helped them on diff days. However if they knew which was which, they would be influenced by psychology of the look
@LegPains I take a 100 people, out of the 100 I get 10 who claim the DRX helped them where nothing else did, no other traction machine. What happened to the other 90? YOu will never hear about them. They will certainly promote the one's who claim the DRX helped them the most. This is why research is important.
When people ask me about the ATM2, I TELL THEM it won't help everyone, I've had a few people who were too inflamed to use it. It may work out for them later, but they are too inflamed now to use it. I have people who spinal traction didn't help; the initial pull, any pull was not good for them, hence NO TRACTION machine would be good for them. I don't hide anything nor do I charge 1000's when I know it won't work for everyone.
and i respect that immensely and i believe that you dont charge people lots of money to take advantage of them if you feel the equipment you use wont help them with their specific case.
However , you dont even entertain the possibility that someone can use a DTS traction machine or an ATM2 and get no relief, and then get on a DRX and get the relief they desired. You would ascribe that to Placebo or timing and i strongly disagree
yes i have absolutely heard of people that said the DRX didnt help them at all, but im going to be totally honest with you, out of every single person ive read about or talked to personally that said the DRX failed them, every single one of them then either did Nothing else and gave up or resorted to Surgery.
i have yet to hear of a single person claim the DRX failed them , but this or that other non invasive device worked
@LegPains What are the statistics by CHANCE that 50 people out of a 500 or 1000 might claim DRX or any other machine, helped them where no other did? Pretty good chance statistically speaking huh? Who will the manufacturer present to you, the others or number more or the 50?
As a great example of the Theoretical model vs. the Experience one, i have had many Nurses , my mom is one, and Medical Doctors tell me that Fasting is dangerous and damaging and never helpful and in the up until the 1980s the Medical profession used to state that its Impossible for any Person to go for a full month without food and live through it
ive gone on Fasts of 25 and 34 days on JUST water and felt excelllent doing it
i had a friend who was in college studying anatomy and Physiology, biology etc. with hopes to get into Medical school and be a Dr. and he once wrote a paper on the dangers of Fasting and how its impossible to live for months without food and all the Drs and people claijming so are liars and quacks.
Here was a guy who had never Fasted a day in his life , and his face dropped when i handed him his theory paper back and said ' dude i already did it '
it would be like saying Chevrolet Lied about the Corvette when they claimed it was designed by Hugh Heffner , my response would be WHO CARES ? its irrelevant anyway
what i want to know and more relevant is can it take you down the drag strip and win you races and is it proven to be reliable and deliver world class performance etc.
if you Research a Dr. from TX named Herbert Shelton in the 1940s - 1980s he had a Fasting clinic in San antonio that was world famous , movie stars went there to heal as well as political figures from all over the world , the AMA and Atty General were constantly trying to shut him down and sue him over technicalities because he obviously took money away from them by healing People without Medicine , they hated him
but just for the Record so i understand , you have no personal experience using a DRX or VAX D in your practice nor do you personally know of any professional colleague who has experience using one in which you observed his or her results or which they spoke to you about ?
in other words your entire argument against these 2 machines is purely theoretical and Not experience based in any way , am i correct
@LegPains I know numerous professionals who have used these devices in my past. I have met them, I've spoken with them; the mechanism is the mechanism no matter whether I use them or not; that cannot change. Your thought that this makes a difference is just a demonstration of naivte' This is my profession, and mechanisms are mechanisms & yes I've spoken w/those who have used them. They are ALL TRACTION machines; the science is junk no matter whether I use it myself or not. All feedback..
All feedback from my colleagues have been the same. All Bells & Whistles.. Traction is traction and the body DOES NOT GUARD with the application of passive spinal traction... THis false claim isn't enough for you?
Can you Please share with me any names and contact info from any of your colleagues who have personal experience using the DRX on a large Number of Patients and were dissatisfied with the Results they were getting with it ?
id luv to talk with them before i spend $ 400 on the treatment, as so far i cant find any Dr. stating that they were dissapointed in the Machine's results , its just the Opposite
@LegPains I meet people in seminars all the time over the years. Lets make this simple, USE THE DRX and if it doesn't change anything on the first vist or at the most 2, just stop. I believe the DRX helps people, but no better than any other traction machine. If they didn't advertise bogus CRAP & charge a ridiculous amount to buy one and didn't lie, I'd have nothing against them. It's traction, it can help many people probably, but for no better reason than anything else.
in theory i would agree with you, However life experience is something totally different and always trumps theory in any area of Life. And there are people out there claiming that they tried Tracition with no results but did the DRX and VAX D therapies and got totally pain free
Are they Lying ? Are they being paid by the Drs office or by DRX themselves to say these things ? i have no idea but the claims are there
its also Possible that these people saying Tracition machines gave them No help but within 10 sessions or so of DRX and VAX D they got immediate relief
You cant say that its impossible . The Only way you can back up factually what you are saying is if you had a DRX machine yourself in your practice or know of someone who does and they or you got no better results than regular traction machines you used achieved
@lolopleasant SORRY YOU ARE WRONG! Everyone falls for the Marketers ploys. THEY ARE ALL TRACTION BASED MACHINES! DECOMPRESSION is the desired result of Traction! I also understand there are a lot of legal issues cropping up now about the claims being made. Sorry, THEY ARE TRACTION TABLES! ALL OF THEM!
This is just traction people. Nothing new and nothing special. Go to any PT office and ask for traction, save your money. By the way the research on the effectiveness of traction is poor.
@LocalFlavor3 THANK YOU! Finally someone gets it! As far as the research goes, I look for effects upon application and I use it as an adjunct to other methods. Most thinks don't have good research, but you can see someone walk out of your office without pain and an erect posture, that's saying something. See my web site and you can see how my patients respond to treatment, even though more research needs to be done.
I had really sever low back pain for several months. I couldn't hardly stand or sleep, I was so uncomfortable. I tried pain pills, physical therapy and anything else I could think of. I went to an orthopedic surgeon who wanted me to have surgery. My friend had seen an advertisement for the DRX 9000 and told me to go check it out before I went in for surgery. It helped me so much, I didn't need surgery and I'm absolutely pain free now! It took several weeks but well worth it!
Absolutely Worthless! Burning the $6000 would have been more enjoyable. The chiropractic office I was dealing with convinced me this would solve all my problems. What it did was prevent me from working for three months. I went from moderate back pain to extremely painful back pain. As silly as it may sound personalized stretching along with pain management worked the best for me. Fight this like a war, by learning and researching. The people that use these are just exploiting your injury!
I ve been having lumbar pains for some time now and i have tried the DRX9000 machine and from my point of view this machine is simple worthless (for me). DRX is not an official medical treatment for sciattica or back pains.. if you have disc herniation or compressed nerve root and your legs numb of have a fire feeling try to consult an OFFICIAL neurosurgeant (not orthopedic). I had a lumbar surgery 2 weeks ago with PLIF (google it) and titanium replacement disc and the pain is gone 100%.
@LegPains The usual... pinched nerve root by 3 herniated discs caused by a car accident.. i tell you that i was afraid at first because all of those thinks they write about neurosurgeants but if i had done the surgery first i would have save myself from 1.5 years of burning-electrocuting sensation and paralysis on my legs.. the DRX therapy is a waste of time..... I wish all of you people tha suffer from this hell to get well soon and trust ONLY DOCTORS... not stretching machines.. good luck all
Thanks for sharing your story, i have 2 bulging discs that have caused me Pain in both my Legs for 12 years ! Ive been researching this DRX Machine for a few months talking with hundreds of people who have used it and gathering info
it seems there simply is no way to know if this Machine is going to work on any individual case as there are Many in your situation who say it totally cured them
@LegPains U don't need to spend your own $ on DRX. See my replies to you in your inbox. If DRX helps, so will any traction(Tx) mach. as DRX is Tx w/Bells & Whistles. They could bill for tx, but make more by claimg it's decompression. Selector switches targeting specific level:bogus as obese & thinner person will influence angle of pull & U cannot specifically isolate 1 seg; also claim that they have a setting to work through m guarding also bogus as there's no involuntary guarding w/passive tx.
@LegPains If you have insurance and it saves you money than find a place that will charge your insurance company so you don't have to pay cash out of pocket. However, if U don't have that option, $60 is a reasonable price. However, in my facility for $60 I include use of ATM2 & other treatments. As far as choosing between prone & supine, an evaluation would reveal the most optimum position. With the DRX you have no choice but to lye on your back. It might help but no more than any other system
its Not a Matter if Rehab Facilities will charge the Insurance company, thats irrelevant and Meaningless if the Insurance companies dont pay for this type of Treatment
The Clinics can charge the insurance companies all they want, its Meaningless cuz its completely up to the insurance companies on if their policy includes such alternative methods such as Traction, which is why i asked if based on your experience if they do ?
@LegPains Traction is a Normal Billable PT services. Yes they will pay for this. It has a code fro billing 97012. It's not considered an alternative treatment; it's been used by physical therapists for years now. When some in the prof get a hold of something they go wild & try to make a ton of $. Providers try to make something new out of something old w/Bells & Whistles & laymen fall for it.
Thank you so much for taking the time to discuss all this with me i really appreciate it . it all hinges on the DRX and VAX D claims that due to their Patented Algorithm Process, which senses and then by passes restrictive counter productive Natural Spinal Muscle tension , allowing real true disc decompression, which Traction Machines cannot do.
Being i already used the DTS TRITON machine with No success
and that there are Numerous People out there with disc issues that say in only a few treatments on the DRX and VAX D, they felt Pain Relief , the only real way for me to know whats real and whats a myth is to try it.
Because with all due respect we are discussing pure Theory now, Neither one of us has any actual experience using the DRX or VAX D
@LegPains They may have felt pain relief. This part I don't doubt, but the same outcome would occur with ANY traction device. YOu don't need to try it to know it's no better; it's a PULLING machine and they come up with this gimmick about overcoming guarding during passive traction which is purely bogus.
Obviously thats the core of the claim, is the DRX a superior machine or the VAX D than a standard traction device like the DTS triton ? i know you are not disputing that patients get well on DRX and VAX D, and either am i, but the sales pitch is that those machines are absolutely superior and totally unique and different than standard Traction
They claim they can take a Patient who already had Traction ,,,,
and those Patients who had little or no Pain relief with Traction will get far better results and much more pain relief on the DRX or VAX
that is their core argument and they state it as such in their clinical experience, there are Numerous vids on here of Drs claiming they used Traction for years with little to avg results and when they got the DRX their clinical success in Pain relief SKYROCKETED ! interesting
I know you say the DRX and VAX D claims of a Unique superior patented Algorithm process is pure bullshit , because they claim ordinary Traction is Not decompression because the spinal Muscles contract and constrict in Traction, and the DRX and VAX D computers are able to by pass this reflex which they attribute to their great success , many Dr's totally buy into and fully believe that claim by the way as you know
you may very well be correct, i dont know for sure, There are Drs out there claiming they had Traction machines and got avg Results and when they got a DRX or VAX D machine instead of their previous Traction machines, their success in alleviating pain completely skyrocketed
its impossible for me sitting here to prove them wrong about that, as they state a very strong intelligent case also
Please understand, the time of day you get the traction, what you were doing before it all have an influence on how you might do on a particular day. If u wake in the a.m. & rush over to get it done, ir other discs may be more hydrated & the pulling may have a diff feel than had u been sitting in a chair watching TV for an hour before getting tx. However, if u go in ANY machine & it pulls & it feels good & u feel better after, it may be worth pursuing. Again, the machine doesn't matter
Not in my case though, my Pain is ALWAYS constant and never deviates, Never changes, Never travels, is Never affected by Am or Pm times etc. My Pain is absolutely Linear and exact every single day and night
in ALL the numerous therapies i have had done in over 12 years of searching for the cure, the fact is i have NEVER at any time felt any degree of Pain reduction whatsoever, absolutely zero
@LegPains You could go back to the other machine you used on another day and it may feel good. Honestly, I don't think either will cure you, but it may help deal with the pain a bit and you won't know w/out trying. Again the machine doesn't matter, your position on the machine 'may; matter. If you went back to the one you used already and laid on your stomach instead of back that might make a difference. I have reasons Y I choose a position for pt's, but I can't explain that to u in this forum
There is no doubt whatsoever, that if i feel a significant pain reduction in only a few sessions on the DRX, than it is the real deal . I can give you the Names and phone #s of many successful Drs ive been treated by that have told me i am absolutely their most difficult and rarest case they've ever encountered, some have had over 30 yrs of practice and told me this.
@LegPains when someone sees video screens and fancy stuff, there is a very strong placebo effect. It's so expensive looking and fancy, they can't help but to be helped. They know this and rely upon this. The Marketers know this, those using the device have a lot of $ invested in it so they have to convince themselves it's better as well to justify the cost. It doesn't feel good to accept the fact you wasted so much money.
Sure, But absolutely NOT in my case is there ANY placebo effect , ZERO , just imagine 12 years being in Pain and your pain in all that time has NEVER ever deviated, changed or lessened or advanced or changed location , etc.
and in that time you tried Mediation, Visualization, etc. experimented with heavy exercise for months, and then absolutely NO exercise , tried Fasting, etc and NEVER a change in pain
@LegPains my point behind discussing the status of discs prior to treatment doesn't have to do with your pain perception during your daily life. It may have an influence as to how the machine effects you while on it though. Again, if the DRX helps, that's great, I would say I would be able to do the same on the Kennedy table and at least I can place your prone and extend your spine if I need to; not that I would do this with your particular case, but I'd have to evaluate you for that.
If you want to claim the Kennedy table gets equal or superior results to the DRX thats a fair argument and i will respect that as i have no experience on the Kennedy.
But its completely absurd illogical and ridiculous to claim the DTS Triton is equal to the DRX, if i were to get excellent Results on the DRX being i already tried the DTS with zero results.
that would be showing a unprofessional subjective bias on your Part
@LegPains If I pull on it I wont' somehow gap it. Use some common sense physiology. I'f I pull on your vertebrae and gap the joint it should feel good with ANY machine that can gap the joint; to assume that an algorithym can be perfectly selected for each and every patient as though they are the same person with the same condition is absurd. It's like saying that stretching a rubber band can be done better by doing it 12 times as opposed to 8 times.
@LegPains it's actually sounding like you are already to say the DRX has helped you where nothing else has. If it helps you, that great, but it doesn't change the physiology of traction nor of your spine. I hope it works for you if you arent' here just to promote the DRX
I used the DRX9000 Cervical unit. I had a shoulder injury and pinched a nerve in my lower neck.....was not sleeping at night...after 3 treatments I was sleeping all night....this machine worked for me and I highly recommend it....
drramchiropractor 4 months ago
Don't wait another moment to pick up the phone and call us at EXECUTIVE EXPRESS CHIROPRACTIC for your free consultation ! We are here to help you get out of pain or help someone you love.
mariavalenti1 4 months ago
Mr McFly you should take a look at all the research that has been done on the DRX9000. There is not a single decompression device or traction device on the market that has anywhere near the reasearch the DRX9000 has on it. You can email Excite Medical (the new manufacturer) for copies of all the research. Please do you due dillegence prior to posting!
saleemfl 4 months ago
By the way this is just traction. It also doesen't matter if it's FDA cleared. The FDA doesen't give a shit if the device works, or medications work. FDA cleared drugs have killed millions of Americans so You can't count on the FDA at all.
1989NikeMcfly 6 months ago
People should just try inversion therapy. This shit is way overpriced. Also cut back on the weight, and take supplements. I went for this treatment myself and didn't relieve my pain like inversion. So far what has helped a lot is inversion, nubax trio and taking supplements, good nutrition and even though im injured I look a lot better than other poeple who don't have an injury.
1989NikeMcfly 6 months ago
We have a DRX9000 in our office and we've had alot of success. You have to use chiro or PT in conjunction with it. Also, patients can't go golf or work in the garden in between sessions. this is why it most likely doesnt work. patients dont listen to the guidelines. those are the ones we havent had success. listen to what the DC or PT tells you!
angelzgreen4 7 months ago
hello everyone, i am using drx9000 for 2 weeks now, i choosed to go in a not painfull period so that my muscles and discs can handle the pressure that is being done..yesterday was my 12th therapy session and today my back is killing me..i can barelly stand up..my therapist said this could happen...i have 8 more sessions...please tell me there is gonna be some improvement in the end...i'm 25 and i suffer since i was 14...
GRstavroula 9 months ago
@GRstavroula go to a chiropractor (who can actually adjust) not a PT or therapist. get adjustments along with the DRX. Also, we've found that patients who dont respond start responding by getting their hamstrings massaged. stretch too.
angelzgreen4 7 months ago
I thought this system would cure my problem but i didnt. I personally used this treatment for a month in order to fix my L4-L5 herniated disc, but I didn't got relieved from the pain. I have tried everything so far now I have 2 weeks of acupunture but still no pain relieved , my last resort is to inject ozone gas into the herniated disc. If I get cured I'll be glad to share my experience with y'all.
chichotux 11 months ago
What a JOKE! This thing is COMPLETELY useless and is scam. Read about Dr. Benjamin Altadonna fraudulent scam on the mercurynews...
scottlum 1 year ago
@scottlum
your wrong. it works. we've had at least 100 patients recover completely. doesnt work for old stubbern men though. they play golf in between sessions.
angelzgreen4 7 months ago
Are there any of these machines in north Queensland, Australia
lachlanthiesfield 1 year ago
I work in a chiro clinic and we have a 90% success rate with this machine!! It is NOT in anyway traction. If you would read and learn a bit more on this you would eat your words
lolopleasant 1 year ago
@lolopleasant
ive heard that VAX D is superior to this machine in every way, is that true ?
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains It's NOT! THEY ARE all traction machines. The Kennedy table is actualliy the most versatile.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains I can only theorize and I would have to say that my educated guess would be that the pain can stay the same if you have constant tissue deformation on pain sensitive tissues and they are never released. It is also possible that if the tissue is finally released that the exposed nociceptive tissues could give you other pain symptoms as they are no longer being compressed and may be like a raw injury; theoretically speaking.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
Raw Nerve..
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
so you would agree with me that in my unique rare individual case , what you said about Timing and placebo are absolute nonsense and non applicable ?
im Not denying they can apply in other more conventional standard cases, absolutely, but in no way whatsoever can they possibly apply in my case, given my incredible Pain history thats ridiculous to even remotely consider that claim.
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
thats certainly possible, or is it also just as possible that my L5 S1 disc is wedged tightly in that Neural Foramina and NOTHING so far has been able to budge it at all , sort of like a rock in your shoe that is lodged in there so no matter how you walk or how much time passes unless you are able to PHysically move that rock, your pain will never change ?
that is my best guess and sounds perfectly logical to me
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains that is basically constant deformation. If that tissue can be moved by opening up vertebrae, they only have so much accessory motion avaiable to them. That motion can be manipulated with ANY traction machine so playing with algorthyms will not change this. It's like bouncing a rock 5 times in 5 seconds versus 20 times in 10 seconds; is one better than the other? I don't think so. If you bang it long enough, maybe it will come loose, but wether is time or settings is all speculative
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
All I know is that the company could not produce the study's which were considered valid study's and they had their license pulled.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
Your problem appears to be unmovable at this point.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
You might be correct perhaps surgery is my Only Option , or perhaps 4 sessions on the DTS were simply not enough for a severe case like mine, However it still stands to say that it is intellectually dishonest for you to say that IF Drx or Vax D got me Pain free or significant reduction in 4 or 5 treatments, that its IMPOSSIBLE for it to be due to the DRX and VAX D, and it must be Placebo or timing , given my history
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains I sent you information which shows how lies were used by DRX which got them into trouble in Oregon and also in Canada. This is enough to make me stay away and not trust them; they can't back up their claims. However, again, to me it's traction, so use it and if it helps that is all that matters.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
i remember reading that the Axiom who makes the DRX lied about the technology supposedly in their computers were developed by NASA which was their claim in their sales literature and then was proved to be false.
which may be true perhaps they blatantly lied about that, ill take it for whats worth and say even if that were true, that doesnt change the fact that people are out there saying it cured them when traction failed them
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains Well, there is a pattern of lies building up and they don't have the valid study's they claim to have. Google Kennedy table and have a discussion with J Kennedy. I purchased the Kennedy table for simple reasons; they admit it's traction, the table is more versatile for positioning patients which is very important as positions effect the pressures on the spine. Kennedy also has info. relative to DRX etc..
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
i heard about the Kennedy Table a few weeks ago on a discussion group and read up on it briefly on a few sites selling them , and i have to admit i was impressed by it from what i read and saw, i would love to try one but im not aware of anyone in my area that uses one.
Just curious, what do you think about what i mentioned earlier about People who claimed Traction didnt help them but DRX and VAX did, are they all lying ?
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains What do you think about people who claim that magnets helped them when nothing else ever helped them? How about the commercial where they throw someone off balance, put this metal bracelet on them, now they are more sturdy. Anytime you are asked to do a task, then repeat the task, your body adjusts so the company took advantage of this normal physiologic adaptation and are trying to fool the public. The point is that there are always hidden variables and unless u know the exact circum
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
circumstances of the application, the environment and a host of other variables, you can't judge it.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains: Listen, I would be surprised if any manufacturer of a product didn't find a fan club to claim it was the best thing since sliced bread. How about those who have claimed the DTS helped them and the DRX didn't? YOu don't think they exist? To me it means that traction helped them at the time they had it. Maybe the settings were better for the patient, but that could be determined manually, not via a computer. The computer won't do any better job. In-fact if I see how my pt's respond
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
I can then make adjustments in POSITION as well as pull force, and timing. I'd rather trust the patient's responses and assume the computer can read the patient's mind.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
rather then assume the computer can read the patient's mind.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
the Dr. who put me on the Triton DTS left the room so there was No one Monitoring anything, he simply set the machine at the desired settings and walked away and returned 20 mins later, there was no adjusting or calibrating of anything or watching me during the process at any time
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
i fully agree with you every product has its fan club , im not disputing that, but what i am saying is ive yet to hear from ANY Dr. or clinic who has been dissapointed with the results they got using the DRX or VAX D . Im not aware of Anyone who has said that they used the DRX and got dissapointing results , and then used the DTS and got great results. Are you aware of anyone in that category ?
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains I have definitely heard of those who were not helped... why? Because I'm in the field and I talk with others. The reason it didn't help is because the patient's were not candidates for Traction; plain and simple.
People are charging CASH to go on these things. How would you like to spend thousands and feel you've been ripped off? You have an investment to feel better and that does play into results. Also, traction is BAD for some patients & the money prevents many providers l
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
from doing the right thing. Suppose someone is NOT a traction candidate. If you load is low enough, you won't hurt them; it might feel good even if you aren't changing anything. It's called Codman's response. You are jiggling mechanoreceptors which can modulate pain; it doesn't mean anything anatomically beneficial occurred. However, if they were caring providers, they would have told the person actual traction won't help them structurally.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
Let me ask you directly , and i fully understand its just your opinion and its not an official diagnosis obviously , that goes without saying of course, but based on my Lumbar MRI do you feel i would be a good candidate for Traction ?
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
and im completely agreeing with you in that i have also talked with people who claimed the DRX did not help them . so im not disputing that at all, However on a broad basis in a clinical setting seeing lots of patients i have heard from Drs who claim traction such as the DTS got them very inferior results as opposed to the DRX and VAX D.
are they Lying ? perhaps thats impossible to say, however thats what they claim
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains if someone has a loose annular (hard disc) fragment in the foramen, traction can pull that piece of hard disc up against a nerve root and cause harm. However, if the amplitude is low enough, it may oscillate the mechanoreceptors and feel kinda good. People can believe something anatomically changed, but it didn't.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
True, but obviously that ' good feeling' will not last and will only be temporary , let me say once more , and i know you are going to think im a DRX salesman, but im just being completely honest
Every single case ive read or heard about or talked to so far who has been helped by the DRX has claimed it was permanent and the Pain symptoms never returned, There seems to be no middle ground , either it helps or it totally fails
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains Let's use some common sense here. If you have 'material' in your spine that is causing a disruption of any kind and it stays there, it will always have a potential to disrupt pain-sensitive tissues. Traction (which is what the DRX is, remember, they have to call it decompression so they can charge cash for it), will not remove the obstructing tissues; this is 'anatomic.' Now, IF there is a way to open the joints to the point that the material can 'shift' somehow, out of the way
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
(continued ) out of the way, and the pain sensitive tissues do not touch the material in your spine, then you won't have pain. The vertebrae, facet joints, have about 3mm of movement available to them; so, even if some relief is afforded, it is possible that weight bearing activities can cause impingement again. Also, think about this, what is DRX doing to remove pressure on pain sensitive tissues? I'ts PULLING! That is exactly what traction is! DRX is Traction; I prefer figuring out what
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
so you dont buy the Theory that ' Disc Decompression' opens up the Vertebrae which brings in a Vaccuum effect that sucks the disc material back in its place where it was originally ?
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
evidently the DRX Machine does seem to know what its doing and might know best as the Machine has a massive success rate . What you are saying about you would rather Manipulate the settings and find out what works best sounds very Logical and might be the ideal way to go , However that doesnt change the facts that the DRX has gotten and continues to get a very high success rate so its obviously doin something right
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains Tell me how many people who spent over $150K are going to reveal their failure rate? How many people who have spent $5K for a myriad of sessions will want to admit they lost money; well some actually do, but many try to find the positive when they've spent so much of their own money. As I said before, if a healthcare provider treats 100 people & 7 do well, do you think he will tell you about the other 93 who didn't fair so well?
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
Psychologically he/she may even weed out the failures for their own brain.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
I mean from their own brain... they ignore the failures as it does not provide any satisfaction..
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains (continued) what works best for patients by manipulating the settings and seeing how the patient responds as opposed to pushing a button and assume the machine knows best. The patient can't ask the machine questions so the machines adjusts itself. The algorithm to work itself through involuntary guarding/spams from traction is an invented phenomenon and does not exist in the world of realy.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains There is a chiro in our area who uses DTS. He's got a boat load of testimonials about how DTS has helped them. I believe it has and I believe DRX has helped people, but not because of algorhytms, rather, because traction was beneficial regardless of the unit. At least with my unit I can have them in any position I want.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains Talk with J Kennedy. Google Kennedy table and ask him about the DRX, he has a ton of info..
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains Oliveri Chiropractic in Rio Grande, NJ has DTS. He chose DTS over that of DRX because he knows it's no better than DTS. I bought Kennedy because I need the flexibility of positioning patients. Now I might get results on my Kennedy that he doesn't on his DTS or vice versa. Too many variables to know why. It could be we caught the patient at the right time so therefore respective patients will claim one table is better than the other. Tired dude, going to bed c u
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
Listen man, i want to thank you immensely for having the paitence and curteousy for talking with me in depth on this, and giving me your honest views and Opinions, you have made me step back and think about all this on a much deeper level than i had before , thats for sure
and its very Possible you could be absolutely correct about the DRX , Understand its difficult for us as Patients to tell fact from Error
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains One last question for now. If you had 500 people try each of the available machines and they were blind folded to minimize the psychological effects of seeing such an amazing looking machine, do you or do you not realize that each table will have differing choices? Do you realize that if the test was done over and over again, there is a high likelihood that the patient's will choose a different table? Claims that one is better of the other are irrelevant.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
im assuming we have 500 People with very similar disc issues ? Also im not sure what you mean by saying each table will have ' differing choices ' . Yes i agree obviously visually the DRX appears like something out of a science fiction movie , which in itself draws people to it im not disputing that at all.
But its entirely possible that the best looking machine is also the best performing one at the same time
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains I would not consider a machine better performing if you rely on it's presets. There are study's regarding symptom responses to movements and the sort; indicating that the patient's response is the best guage..; NOT leaving it up to a computer to guess. There is NO REACTIVE spasming that occurs with traction, hence, it's a gimmick.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ProPTRehab
a great Example , here is a direct quote from Dr. Marks on his video here titled ORANGE COUNTY CA SPINAL DECOMPRESSION
' Costs being equal which Im sure they are now, I would do a DRX, then an Accu-Spina or Lordex (both face up position), then VAX-D then Triton.
Drs using Triton DTS and similar units always say its the same but its not. I've used very advanced Orthion traction units in past, but they did not come close to the results I get with the DRX '
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains just look at the physiology and the available of accessory movement of vertebrae. It is what it is, you pull on it, some do better with shorter cycles, some do better with longer cycles. That is it. IF the DTS didn't work, maybe they should change their settings. That might be the only difference between the DRX and DTS and the DTS can be set to any setting you want, so can the Kennedy table. The computer sensing patient resistance is a joke.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
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@ProPTRehab
continuing from same video, quote from Dr. Marks
" DRX pulls and then senses pt resistance and lets go then pulls again like 17x/sec, to keep from causing reactive spasm. Triton DTS cant do that, Triton is the same as older traction and that was always iffy on if it worked or not. It could work for some ppl, but overwhelming majority of DRX Patients get relief when They have already tried traction and failed. '
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains that's the point THERE IS NO PATIENT RESISTANCE! If they are guarded out of fear or pain, you let them have a few cycles of tract and they get use to it instantly. It's a MARKETING PLOY! If they claim the DRX helped them, then traction helped them.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains I agree with them about Traction also. However, there is a difference with how I present and use said treatments. More studies need to be done on traction; we don't deny this. However, if someone gets pain relief while they are on and after they get off, that's a reasonable response, even for the DRX. It's the EXTRA claims they make I take issue with.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains REACTIVE SPASM DOES NOT OCCUR - It's a Marketing Ploy that for some reasons chiro's who bought it simply trusted them instead of researched it. Reactive Spasming DOES NOT HAPPEN!
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains DRX Pulls, you see? What is 'pulling?' It's traction.. The idea of reactive muscle spasming or guarding is BOGUS! IT DOES NOT HAPPEN! You mentioned something about someone setting things and leaving the room. Once it's set up, that's fine. However, I have a patient now who I have to place into lumbar extension and then add the traction to best help him. He responds best to prone, with lumbar ext, with the traction. DRX: He'd be forced to lay supine & w/out extension.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
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@ProPTRehab
Dr. Marks
' Ive been practicing using various forms of traction since 1986. My research lead me to use a DRX 9000 in my office. I have also been a patient on my own DRX 9000 machine for my L5 disc that herniated in 2008. I have completely recovered and lead a very active life. VAX D and DRX are superior to Traction '
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains Any traction machine can be set to the same settings of any other traction machine. It's pull hold time, release time and force. You can graduate the pressure to make it increasingly stronger or not.. it's just settings and THEY ALL can be changed and it's better to do it based on patient responses as opposed to a computer arbitrarily doing it & trying to sense something that DOES NOT exist, like guarding to passive traction. If they have fear they relax as the treatment is comfortable
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains Opinion and anecdote.. Why do people get better after using my Kennedy table? Why do many get better after using DTS? The same reason why the get better after DRX. EVERY patient does not get better on any of them as there are conditions which are not amenable to traction. For example, if you pull on the spine & there's an annular fragment caught in the foramen, it can cause the annular piece to push into a nerve root.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains I think you should try the DRX.. for no other reason than to see if it helps you.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains You asked me if I think these traction machines will help you, which they are all traction machines regardless of them lying about that fact. Considering how long it's been there, it's like to have fibrosed over and will be immoveable. FIbrosed is like a hardening and scarring, etc.. and it becomes fixed to what it is attached basically. Therefore, I don't hold a lot of faith with any of the traction devices for you.However, if u use it & it helps you that's all that matters.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
ive often thought of that myself, if after over 12 yrs of being like this if My L5 S1 is not stuck in there so tight and Fibrosed so that surgery is the only option. However, do you ascribe any significance to the fact that after all this time my symptoms have Not changed ?
My location of Pain and severity is the same as it was way back in 97, zero progression or degressed . VERY rare huh ?
LegPains 1 year ago
An instructor of mine once said, "It's a Pink Floyd Concert In There." Basically we still don't have all answers & all sorts of symptoms & presentations can occur. I find it unusual that it doesn't alter in accord w/gravitational forces. I know what I would do, I'd try ATM2 for a while. There's no reason you can't try things, so if you want to try traction try the DRX if you'd like, also try the ATM2. I'd do what I could with said devices & if I was really really annoyed, I'd consider surgery
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
ive already decided after over 12 yrs of this Leg Pain there is no doubt in my mind i will commit suicide if i cant resolve it. id rather Die and i absolutely will take my own life if i cant get out of this
i feel as if im in prison and i cant get out , i want to cut my legs off with a chain saw to get rid of the pain , so its either devices or Surgery . Although i have No health insurance
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
my Cash resources are Low from being scammed by all the fakes , frauds and liars out there. So if devices wont work and i cant get the Money for surgery , that only thing left for me is Death .
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
the ONLY thing that increases my Leg Pain is weight bearing activity , but once the activity is done the pain returns back to its original state .
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
There are Thousands of people out there claiming that after they Tried everything for many years, the DRX and VAX D completely relieved their pain. I talked to one guy in AZ who said he was in excruciating Pain and his dr. reccommended surgery as his only Hope. He used VAX D way back in 1998 for only 3 weeks , and it relieved all his pain and it was a Permanent recovery and he now lifts heavy weights
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
i find it absolutely astonishing that its the Year 2010 and with all our Knowledge, science and education , there is still MASSIVE and polar opposite disagreement on how to simply correct spinal issues.
seems NO ONE agrees with anyone else on anything and there are a million different theories out there and EVERYONE is claiming they are righ t and everyone else is wrong. its all Subjective sadly with the spine
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
A person in my horrible vulnerable situation can go to 100 different Dr.s and Therapists and i will get 100 different and opposite opinions on what to do . There is only ONE Science of Human Anatomy that everyone agrees on and ONE set science of human physiology , as we ALL have the same body exact parts , Yet there is No agreement on how to fix the Patient.
its IMPOSSIBLE to know who to believe anymore , it makes me sick
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
only 1 Human Spine, however there are sooooooooooo Many different Machines, sooooooooo many different devices, sooooooooo many different philosophies on how to correct the Human Spine, everyone is out there contradicting everyone else and calling the ' other guy ' wrong, saying My Pet device is superior to yours and vice versa, sooooooooo many different concepts , i have NO idea what to do anymore : (
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains That's why I post videos of my patient treatments so people can see a small sample of who I've helped. No, I won't be able to help everyone, nor will anyone else. We are all subject to the integrity of the damage and the causative lesion.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains I just look at the anatomy of the described problem and I make no promises. NO BODY knows what will work for you. They might suggest McKenzie because McKenzie is a valid approach and does achieve great results for many people, but they will tell u themselves they are subject to the integrity of the damage. No Body can provide you a definitive answer, nor should they. There are choices out there, so just try them. I recommend a combination of ATM2 & Tx based your described problems 1st
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
Every single Chiropractor, Osteopath, Physician, Therapist in existence that treats Spinal conditions in America are ALL claiming they have a very high success rate in remedying the Pain. Ive yet to hear any of them ever say they dont have a high success Rate.
Yet you look around and talk to people and NO ONE is actually getting well as MILLIONS of people such as myself are miserable and in massive Pain, whats goin on here ?
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains if my suggestions of using ATM2 and spinal decomp don't cut it, visit a McK. practitioners and just see what happens. If they find they can't help you, then they will be honest about it and tell you. We are all subject to the integrity of the problem and it is possible that nothing will help.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab Don't let this spam master sway your opinion. Check it out on your own and make your decision based on that not some advertising guru with a vested interest
DSta421299 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
Every single Dr and Therapist , without exception, says they have a ton of success stories with lots of people with very similar problem to mine and the next guy. Seems every single Dr and Therapist have all the answers and are out there fixing the spinal issues.
Yet Me and ' the next guy' which can be found on MILLIONS of mssg sites and other places are still in Massive Pain and we've been to TONS of Therapists . what gives
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
Let me just stop my theory type talk, and ask you directly , Given everything i told you about what my MRI states and my type and location of Leg Pain etc. Have you ever worked with a case like Mine ? Yes or No
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains I have worked with people with similar MRI findings, but I could typically change their pain perception either provoking the pain or modulating the pain. I don't think the woman with the 40 year history of back pain has the same exact thing, but she has had 40 years of chronic back pain and the ATM2 has helped her.
I would absolutely try the ATM2 first because of how long you had the pain, but I'd still try the other options.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains I just read where you say weight bearing is the only thing that increases your pain; yes I have heard of this occurring. Compression is a problem for you, hence, why it makes sense to at least try traction, although the anatomical problem may not actually be resolvable. Even if I feel is might not be resolvable, I'm not opposed to trying Traction and of course the ATM2.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
Heres what im hearing from all the Drs and Therapists out there,
You should Try DRX, do Not try DRX its a fraud , use Traction, do Not use Traction, Use Spine force, do Not use Spine Force, use ATM 2 , no ATM2 cant possibly correct your situation , VAX D is the same as DRX, No absolutely Not VAX D is totally different than DRX , the DRX is same as Traction, No its radically different and superior etc.
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains DRX Claims ARE a fraud, but it's a form of traction, so if traction can help any of these traction devices can help; I just like that on the Kennedy table, I can position someone in prone or supine, not just supine like the DRX forces and not just prone like the VAX-D. They have to claim it's not traction in order to justify charging cash. It's also the only way they will convince health providers to spend $150K to buy the machine.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
All im asking for is the Truth, and the only thing that can help me right now is truth, however it seems its Impossible to get with the Spine, its total Chaos and mass confusion with complete absolute contradiction everywhere
it has me so horribly sick to my stomach i want to vomit, its like ive been cast into Hell and i just want this back and forth confusion TO END ! as i just dont know how much longer i can take it
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains It's not so hard to decide. Based upon what you described, I would try any of the traction devices, since you seem so enamored with DRX try it, but remember it's no better than any other Traction machine. Then try the ATM2. I wouldn't DEFINITELY go this route if I were you! If they don't work I would also try a Mckenzie certified PT who also has training in Brian Mulligan Procedures.
These are all main-stream treatments. You can contact backprojectDOTcom for the ATM2 practitioner
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
You can google Robin McKenzie Institute to find a McKenzie Practitioner and google Brian Mulligan PT. I would also participate in a stabilization exercise program. It's not as good as the ATM2, but you can do it on your own. Ask the PT's you visit about other stabilization exercises.
If NONE of these help, I might then opt for surgery.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
speaking to what im talking about i have 2 mssgs in my mailbox ,
one Therapist said to me from here that McKenzie PT would definitely cure my situation and is the Ideal therapy for my case , and another PT said to me McKenzie exercises would have very little to no effect on my situation.
Which one is accurate ? Obviously they both cant be right, so who knows, This is positively Horrible situation to be in
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains McKenzie is a GREAT protocol, it's one of the few approaches with a lot of research behind it. However, NOTHING is a cure-all. If you have a fibrosed annulus/disc, other.. that is solidified and obstructive, chances are it won't help. McKenzie is GREAT for Adherent Nerve Roots (if they are not too tightly bound - Nerve root adherence is where disc material adheres to a lumbar nerve root & has characteristic findings; it's GREAT for anterior & post REDUCIBLE discs & a host of problems
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
However, it won't help with everything, it won't remove something that is solidly solidified in place which won't move no matter what. IT IS worthwhile for a certified practitioner to evaluate you and you can go to the web site by googling for it and searching out a practitioner. He/She will tell you whether they can help or not.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
I am certified in McKenzie, but judging by your MRI findings and your symptoms, I am not optimistic.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING! The McKenzie Institute uses LIVE demonstration models / patients during their course instructions. If you can contact the institute, they can evaluate you in front of a room full of physical therapists and chiro's. You will have an entire room full of people to evaluate you. In addition to this, I'd still try the traction (any of them, drx, kennedy, whatever) and the ATM2. Google the McKenzie Institute and write them a letter requesting to partake.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
Its as if NO time has passed , the Pain in my Legs is no different today , than it was in 97, same level of flexibility, strength, pain level, NO worsening at all
My Understanding is that is ULTRA rare ! If a disc Fibrosed is there usually an increase in Pain over time ?
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains only if the fibrosed bulge or herniation is pushed into pain sensitive tissues harder than it is presently pushing into said tissues.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
This same guy told me he NEVER needed to go back to the Machine , and he has not needed it since then, he currently is very active and STILL Pain free now after all those years and said he feels like a million dollars.
In your Opinion is he Lying ?
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains I have a ton of people who claim the same with me! Claims with manual procedures as well as claims with regard to the machines I use. However, I don't claim I will be able to help everyone also note how I always use the term 'Theortically; as I converse with you. Everything is theoretical; those who don't do the same I have no respect for. Where do you see anything about theoretical model? They state everything to you as though factual, yet it turns out they have
junk science.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
' i have a ton of people who claim the same with me '
Thats too vague not sure what you are referring to, Please be more specific as to which machines or devices people say failed them but what you used and then helped them ?
A good example is i think our entire discussion hinges on a Dr's video here VAX D IS OPPOSITE OF TRACTION, now either that video is Factually True or its False , there is NO middle ground
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains I don't expect people to take the word of those on my testimonials page. They claim what I did helped them. I can tell you that as I applied procedures they felt less pain and afterward they claimed to have less pain and it lasted. I don't care about the theoretical model, just that they feel better. As far as why they claim what they claim; how do you know there are tons of people claiming that DRX didn't help them but DTS did?
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
i absolutely believe and have no doubt that your only goal is helping your patients get better . What i dont understand is your reluctance to even consider the Possibility that the claims of DRX and VAX D are accurate, im NOT saying they are, but rather the possiblity that they may be, given you have absolutely No experience using one nor do you know personally any colleague who has either. Your Objection to their claims is theoretical
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
' how do you know there arent tons of people out there claiming that DRX didnt help them but DTS did ? '
well in Pouring over Hundreds of mssg area sites online and places like here speaking with everyone i possibly can to get any insight into my own condition, ive yet to hear of one single person that has claimed that, if you have please by all means tell me about it , as id be delighted to talk with them about it
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains: yes, the Vax D is false
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
I know people who have had decompression, it didn't help them, the ATM2 did. I've had people who the ATM2 didn't help, the spinal decompression did. I could place 10 tx machines in a row from diff companies. They could try a different 1 each day & not tell them which is which. I would bet $ that if they were blind to table being used, they would choose a diff table that helped them on diff days. However if they knew which was which, they would be influenced by psychology of the look
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
You know people with disc bulges and Herniations who had DRX or VAX D therapy who got no results and then tried ATM2 and did get great Results ?
im not talking about DTS or Traction machines, im talking about DRX and VAX D only
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains I take a 100 people, out of the 100 I get 10 who claim the DRX helped them where nothing else did, no other traction machine. What happened to the other 90? YOu will never hear about them. They will certainly promote the one's who claim the DRX helped them the most. This is why research is important.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
When people ask me about the ATM2, I TELL THEM it won't help everyone, I've had a few people who were too inflamed to use it. It may work out for them later, but they are too inflamed now to use it. I have people who spinal traction didn't help; the initial pull, any pull was not good for them, hence NO TRACTION machine would be good for them. I don't hide anything nor do I charge 1000's when I know it won't work for everyone.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
and i respect that immensely and i believe that you dont charge people lots of money to take advantage of them if you feel the equipment you use wont help them with their specific case.
However , you dont even entertain the possibility that someone can use a DTS traction machine or an ATM2 and get no relief, and then get on a DRX and get the relief they desired. You would ascribe that to Placebo or timing and i strongly disagree
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
yes i have absolutely heard of people that said the DRX didnt help them at all, but im going to be totally honest with you, out of every single person ive read about or talked to personally that said the DRX failed them, every single one of them then either did Nothing else and gave up or resorted to Surgery.
i have yet to hear of a single person claim the DRX failed them , but this or that other non invasive device worked
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains What are the statistics by CHANCE that 50 people out of a 500 or 1000 might claim DRX or any other machine, helped them where no other did? Pretty good chance statistically speaking huh? Who will the manufacturer present to you, the others or number more or the 50?
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
As a great example of the Theoretical model vs. the Experience one, i have had many Nurses , my mom is one, and Medical Doctors tell me that Fasting is dangerous and damaging and never helpful and in the up until the 1980s the Medical profession used to state that its Impossible for any Person to go for a full month without food and live through it
ive gone on Fasts of 25 and 34 days on JUST water and felt excelllent doing it
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
i had a friend who was in college studying anatomy and Physiology, biology etc. with hopes to get into Medical school and be a Dr. and he once wrote a paper on the dangers of Fasting and how its impossible to live for months without food and all the Drs and people claijming so are liars and quacks.
Here was a guy who had never Fasted a day in his life , and his face dropped when i handed him his theory paper back and said ' dude i already did it '
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
it would be like saying Chevrolet Lied about the Corvette when they claimed it was designed by Hugh Heffner , my response would be WHO CARES ? its irrelevant anyway
what i want to know and more relevant is can it take you down the drag strip and win you races and is it proven to be reliable and deliver world class performance etc.
thats what counts, the other shit is unimportant
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
if you Research a Dr. from TX named Herbert Shelton in the 1940s - 1980s he had a Fasting clinic in San antonio that was world famous , movie stars went there to heal as well as political figures from all over the world , the AMA and Atty General were constantly trying to shut him down and sue him over technicalities because he obviously took money away from them by healing People without Medicine , they hated him
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
but just for the Record so i understand , you have no personal experience using a DRX or VAX D in your practice nor do you personally know of any professional colleague who has experience using one in which you observed his or her results or which they spoke to you about ?
in other words your entire argument against these 2 machines is purely theoretical and Not experience based in any way , am i correct
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains I know numerous professionals who have used these devices in my past. I have met them, I've spoken with them; the mechanism is the mechanism no matter whether I use them or not; that cannot change. Your thought that this makes a difference is just a demonstration of naivte' This is my profession, and mechanisms are mechanisms & yes I've spoken w/those who have used them. They are ALL TRACTION machines; the science is junk no matter whether I use it myself or not. All feedback..
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
All feedback from my colleagues have been the same. All Bells & Whistles.. Traction is traction and the body DOES NOT GUARD with the application of passive spinal traction... THis false claim isn't enough for you?
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
Can you Please share with me any names and contact info from any of your colleagues who have personal experience using the DRX on a large Number of Patients and were dissatisfied with the Results they were getting with it ?
id luv to talk with them before i spend $ 400 on the treatment, as so far i cant find any Dr. stating that they were dissapointed in the Machine's results , its just the Opposite
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains I meet people in seminars all the time over the years. Lets make this simple, USE THE DRX and if it doesn't change anything on the first vist or at the most 2, just stop. I believe the DRX helps people, but no better than any other traction machine. If they didn't advertise bogus CRAP & charge a ridiculous amount to buy one and didn't lie, I'd have nothing against them. It's traction, it can help many people probably, but for no better reason than anything else.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
in theory i would agree with you, However life experience is something totally different and always trumps theory in any area of Life. And there are people out there claiming that they tried Tracition with no results but did the DRX and VAX D therapies and got totally pain free
Are they Lying ? Are they being paid by the Drs office or by DRX themselves to say these things ? i have no idea but the claims are there
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
its also Possible that these people saying Tracition machines gave them No help but within 10 sessions or so of DRX and VAX D they got immediate relief
You cant say that its impossible . The Only way you can back up factually what you are saying is if you had a DRX machine yourself in your practice or know of someone who does and they or you got no better results than regular traction machines you used achieved
LegPains 1 year ago
@lolopleasant
talk to me !!!! id like to hear more about your experience using this Machine, im in Pain and i need Help
PLEASE WRITE BACK
LegPains 1 year ago
@lolopleasant SORRY YOU ARE WRONG! Everyone falls for the Marketers ploys. THEY ARE ALL TRACTION BASED MACHINES! DECOMPRESSION is the desired result of Traction! I also understand there are a lot of legal issues cropping up now about the claims being made. Sorry, THEY ARE TRACTION TABLES! ALL OF THEM!
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
This is just traction people. Nothing new and nothing special. Go to any PT office and ask for traction, save your money. By the way the research on the effectiveness of traction is poor.
LocalFlavor3 1 year ago
@LocalFlavor3
check this video out
VAX D IS OPPOSITE OF TRACTION
LegPains 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LocalFlavor3
You are factually INCORRECT
LegPains 1 year ago
@LocalFlavor3 THANK YOU! Finally someone gets it! As far as the research goes, I look for effects upon application and I use it as an adjunct to other methods. Most thinks don't have good research, but you can see someone walk out of your office without pain and an erect posture, that's saying something. See my web site and you can see how my patients respond to treatment, even though more research needs to be done.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
I had really sever low back pain for several months. I couldn't hardly stand or sleep, I was so uncomfortable. I tried pain pills, physical therapy and anything else I could think of. I went to an orthopedic surgeon who wanted me to have surgery. My friend had seen an advertisement for the DRX 9000 and told me to go check it out before I went in for surgery. It helped me so much, I didn't need surgery and I'm absolutely pain free now! It took several weeks but well worth it!
2muchstuff2go 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@2muchstuff2go
Can you please share more about your experience using this machine ? How many treatments did it take before you Noticed it was making a difference ?
How many total sessions did it take before you were totally out of Pain ?
thanks
LegPains 1 year ago
Absolutely Worthless! Burning the $6000 would have been more enjoyable. The chiropractic office I was dealing with convinced me this would solve all my problems. What it did was prevent me from working for three months. I went from moderate back pain to extremely painful back pain. As silly as it may sound personalized stretching along with pain management worked the best for me. Fight this like a war, by learning and researching. The people that use these are just exploiting your injury!
gulfwhiskey 2 years ago
@gulfwhiskey
check out VAX D
LegPains 1 year ago
@gulfwhiskey
How long ago did you have this done ?
LegPains 1 year ago
This treatment is absolutely incredible. It saved me from surgery. Thank you for this technology!
mgjgmgng 2 years ago
@mgjgmgng
Talk to me, Please share more about your Experience using this Machine ! Where was your Pain ?
LegPains 1 year ago
I ve been having lumbar pains for some time now and i have tried the DRX9000 machine and from my point of view this machine is simple worthless (for me). DRX is not an official medical treatment for sciattica or back pains.. if you have disc herniation or compressed nerve root and your legs numb of have a fire feeling try to consult an OFFICIAL neurosurgeant (not orthopedic). I had a lumbar surgery 2 weeks ago with PLIF (google it) and titanium replacement disc and the pain is gone 100%.
Alexandros83Marousi 2 years ago
@Alexandros83Marousi
did you try VAX D ?
LegPains 1 year ago
@Alexandros83Marousi
how many DRX Treatments did you have ?
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains about 30 if not mistaken
Alexandros83Marousi 1 year ago
@Alexandros83Marousi
i know you said the DRX didnt work in your situation, what did your Lumbar MRI say ?
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains The usual... pinched nerve root by 3 herniated discs caused by a car accident.. i tell you that i was afraid at first because all of those thinks they write about neurosurgeants but if i had done the surgery first i would have save myself from 1.5 years of burning-electrocuting sensation and paralysis on my legs.. the DRX therapy is a waste of time..... I wish all of you people tha suffer from this hell to get well soon and trust ONLY DOCTORS... not stretching machines.. good luck all
Alexandros83Marousi 1 year ago
@Alexandros83Marousi
Thanks for sharing your story, i have 2 bulging discs that have caused me Pain in both my Legs for 12 years ! Ive been researching this DRX Machine for a few months talking with hundreds of people who have used it and gathering info
it seems there simply is no way to know if this Machine is going to work on any individual case as there are Many in your situation who say it totally cured them
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains U don't need to spend your own $ on DRX. See my replies to you in your inbox. If DRX helps, so will any traction(Tx) mach. as DRX is Tx w/Bells & Whistles. They could bill for tx, but make more by claimg it's decompression. Selector switches targeting specific level:bogus as obese & thinner person will influence angle of pull & U cannot specifically isolate 1 seg; also claim that they have a setting to work through m guarding also bogus as there's no involuntary guarding w/passive tx.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
i was quoted a price by a chiropractor in my area of $ 60 Per treatment on his DRX machine
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains If you have insurance and it saves you money than find a place that will charge your insurance company so you don't have to pay cash out of pocket. However, if U don't have that option, $60 is a reasonable price. However, in my facility for $60 I include use of ATM2 & other treatments. As far as choosing between prone & supine, an evaluation would reveal the most optimum position. With the DRX you have no choice but to lye on your back. It might help but no more than any other system
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
its Not a Matter if Rehab Facilities will charge the Insurance company, thats irrelevant and Meaningless if the Insurance companies dont pay for this type of Treatment
The Clinics can charge the insurance companies all they want, its Meaningless cuz its completely up to the insurance companies on if their policy includes such alternative methods such as Traction, which is why i asked if based on your experience if they do ?
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains Traction is a Normal Billable PT services. Yes they will pay for this. It has a code fro billing 97012. It's not considered an alternative treatment; it's been used by physical therapists for years now. When some in the prof get a hold of something they go wild & try to make a ton of $. Providers try to make something new out of something old w/Bells & Whistles & laymen fall for it.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
Thank you so much for taking the time to discuss all this with me i really appreciate it . it all hinges on the DRX and VAX D claims that due to their Patented Algorithm Process, which senses and then by passes restrictive counter productive Natural Spinal Muscle tension , allowing real true disc decompression, which Traction Machines cannot do.
Being i already used the DTS TRITON machine with No success
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
and that there are Numerous People out there with disc issues that say in only a few treatments on the DRX and VAX D, they felt Pain Relief , the only real way for me to know whats real and whats a myth is to try it.
Because with all due respect we are discussing pure Theory now, Neither one of us has any actual experience using the DRX or VAX D
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains They may have felt pain relief. This part I don't doubt, but the same outcome would occur with ANY traction device. YOu don't need to try it to know it's no better; it's a PULLING machine and they come up with this gimmick about overcoming guarding during passive traction which is purely bogus.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
Obviously thats the core of the claim, is the DRX a superior machine or the VAX D than a standard traction device like the DTS triton ? i know you are not disputing that patients get well on DRX and VAX D, and either am i, but the sales pitch is that those machines are absolutely superior and totally unique and different than standard Traction
They claim they can take a Patient who already had Traction ,,,,
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
and those Patients who had little or no Pain relief with Traction will get far better results and much more pain relief on the DRX or VAX
that is their core argument and they state it as such in their clinical experience, there are Numerous vids on here of Drs claiming they used Traction for years with little to avg results and when they got the DRX their clinical success in Pain relief SKYROCKETED ! interesting
LegPains 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
I know you say the DRX and VAX D claims of a Unique superior patented Algorithm process is pure bullshit , because they claim ordinary Traction is Not decompression because the spinal Muscles contract and constrict in Traction, and the DRX and VAX D computers are able to by pass this reflex which they attribute to their great success , many Dr's totally buy into and fully believe that claim by the way as you know
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains The MUSCLES DO NOT contract during traction! Again, purse Bullshit!
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
you may very well be correct, i dont know for sure, There are Drs out there claiming they had Traction machines and got avg Results and when they got a DRX or VAX D machine instead of their previous Traction machines, their success in alleviating pain completely skyrocketed
its impossible for me sitting here to prove them wrong about that, as they state a very strong intelligent case also
LegPains 1 year ago
Please understand, the time of day you get the traction, what you were doing before it all have an influence on how you might do on a particular day. If u wake in the a.m. & rush over to get it done, ir other discs may be more hydrated & the pulling may have a diff feel than had u been sitting in a chair watching TV for an hour before getting tx. However, if u go in ANY machine & it pulls & it feels good & u feel better after, it may be worth pursuing. Again, the machine doesn't matter
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
Not in my case though, my Pain is ALWAYS constant and never deviates, Never changes, Never travels, is Never affected by Am or Pm times etc. My Pain is absolutely Linear and exact every single day and night
in ALL the numerous therapies i have had done in over 12 years of searching for the cure, the fact is i have NEVER at any time felt any degree of Pain reduction whatsoever, absolutely zero
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains You could go back to the other machine you used on another day and it may feel good. Honestly, I don't think either will cure you, but it may help deal with the pain a bit and you won't know w/out trying. Again the machine doesn't matter, your position on the machine 'may; matter. If you went back to the one you used already and laid on your stomach instead of back that might make a difference. I have reasons Y I choose a position for pt's, but I can't explain that to u in this forum
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
It's too much to discuss in a yourtube box'
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
There is no doubt whatsoever, that if i feel a significant pain reduction in only a few sessions on the DRX, than it is the real deal . I can give you the Names and phone #s of many successful Drs ive been treated by that have told me i am absolutely their most difficult and rarest case they've ever encountered, some have had over 30 yrs of practice and told me this.
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains when someone sees video screens and fancy stuff, there is a very strong placebo effect. It's so expensive looking and fancy, they can't help but to be helped. They know this and rely upon this. The Marketers know this, those using the device have a lot of $ invested in it so they have to convince themselves it's better as well to justify the cost. It doesn't feel good to accept the fact you wasted so much money.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
Sure, But absolutely NOT in my case is there ANY placebo effect , ZERO , just imagine 12 years being in Pain and your pain in all that time has NEVER ever deviated, changed or lessened or advanced or changed location , etc.
and in that time you tried Mediation, Visualization, etc. experimented with heavy exercise for months, and then absolutely NO exercise , tried Fasting, etc and NEVER a change in pain
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains my point behind discussing the status of discs prior to treatment doesn't have to do with your pain perception during your daily life. It may have an influence as to how the machine effects you while on it though. Again, if the DRX helps, that's great, I would say I would be able to do the same on the Kennedy table and at least I can place your prone and extend your spine if I need to; not that I would do this with your particular case, but I'd have to evaluate you for that.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@ProPTRehab
If you want to claim the Kennedy table gets equal or superior results to the DRX thats a fair argument and i will respect that as i have no experience on the Kennedy.
But its completely absurd illogical and ridiculous to claim the DTS Triton is equal to the DRX, if i were to get excellent Results on the DRX being i already tried the DTS with zero results.
that would be showing a unprofessional subjective bias on your Part
LegPains 1 year ago
@LegPains If I pull on it I wont' somehow gap it. Use some common sense physiology. I'f I pull on your vertebrae and gap the joint it should feel good with ANY machine that can gap the joint; to assume that an algorithym can be perfectly selected for each and every patient as though they are the same person with the same condition is absurd. It's like saying that stretching a rubber band can be done better by doing it 12 times as opposed to 8 times.
ProPTRehab 1 year ago
@LegPains it's actually sounding like you are already to say the DRX has helped you where nothing else has. If it helps you, that great, but it doesn't change the physiology of traction nor of your spine. I hope it works for you if you arent' here just to promote the DRX
ProPTRehab 1 year ago