Rome(2)---Best Conversation Ever

[Gommerell]

I have given up being amazed by this series , it was the best thing ever . Now I concentrate on its weak points , weak acting etc Still trying to think of something ...........

[5thcenturyad]

@Gommerell An excellent series but there is one weak point: too much of that damn woman Atia and her domestic life. They should have spent more time showing lower class Romans like the soldiers and collegia gangsters. Of course Generals and politicians were central to the story but not that damn woman.

[Gommerell]

@5thcenturyad I never heard that point before and appreciate it , I will now think about it ,

I thought some of the scenes where she was central were very good , Like when she killed her daughters husband , to marry her off to Pompey , her Manipulation of Mark Antony , the fact she was almost Reptilan in her cold calcualtions , and perhaps goes a way to explaining the cold calculating insight of Octavian . Her Wars with Sevillia , were gripping , with each getting the upper hand in turn,

[5thcenturyad]

@Gommerell True, but I would have prefered to see less of her. Maybe because I generally prefered the scenes with lower-class characters; criminals, collegia, soldiers and their families ect.. Or maybe I just didnt like her character... I'm not saying they should have cut her out entirely just cut her scenes down a bit.

[Gommerell]

@5thcenturyad Good Point

When Rome was running I used to work Nights with a guy who was a Student of Ancient history , We would talk about each episode for Hours !;-) Erates Fulem bits were Good as was his Downfall , and who can forget the Son of HAdes ? text book example of bringing a bunch of crooks to heel ;-)

[1Zenspace]

Brutus's REAL father was Ceasar. But his supposed ancestor (through the man who was not his real fther) was Brutus the elder, one of the founders of the Roman Republic, a man who overthrew a tyrant.

Brutus was forced to choose between his love of his father vs his love of Democracy.

[Mythbuff]

@1Zenspace nice, keep up the delusions, Caesar was far too sterile to have all that many children...

[1Zenspace]

@Mythbuff I have always wondered about this, why do you and people like you act like such assholes on Youtube comments? I mean when you speak to people face-to-face you don't start your sentences by saying "Nice keep up the delusions..." its only in situations like this that you act like and asshole. Why? Why do you choose to do that?

[Mythbuff]

@1Zenspace It's a living, seriously though, your no better, the difference is your more self-righteously hypocritical about it. As for the real argument, in all serousness, Caesar and Augustus were both men who played the field and they in al honesty both had only one daughter each, with what were probably super-fertile ladies. Now we must look at this series, sure they look alike and are probly related in here, but in actual history, they weren't due to Caesar being less than fertile.

[jennyhamburg1]

Mr. Menzies is always brilliant, I`m waiting for the opposite that would be interesting.

[mybluecat1]

@jennyhamburg1 The "interesting" opposite was right there and his name is Ciaran Hinds!

Without mentioning awesome James Purefoy (Mark Antony in the series) who so easily depedestaled Richard Burton. Both thespians are as brilliant as Menzies. Maybe you did not pay attention.

[jennyhamburg1]

@mybluecat1 Keep calm Mr. Hinds. You`re brilliant but not my favourite Julius. Why does bluecat compare apples with pears? And nobody depedestaled Richard Burton, certainly not a sexy creamy cake like Mr. Purefoy.

[jennyhamburg1]

@mybluecat1 hello kitty, the world will be poorer without your bossy commentaries. Pls go on fanciless, pedantic, dogmatic. And don`t laugh! The fair cat! In thy orisons be all my sins remember`d.

[CommissarKane]

Could you have imagined the world if that coward brutus and his cohorts had failed to kill julius and he lived on to carry out his work on rome...

[festdir]

@CommissarKane You mean the dictatorship he attempted & the destruction of the Republic?

The Republic was destroyed regardless. Even the name remained the same; the dictator was still called 'Caesar'. Neither Rome nor the world would have been any different.

[aussiejed1]

Caesar always tried to play the "I'm not telling you, you're helping me" card, but this time it didn't work - and the veneer of pleasant statesman is stripped away. Before Brutus sits the tyrant, and Brutus knows his duty.

[foxesV]

Did Caesar really ask Brutus to govern Macedonia? Or was that just made up to fit the series? Does anyone know?

[Rachulie]

god, brutus CANNOT take a compliment. 

[gottmovie]

The person who plays Brutus is just brilliant. What an great acting. :-)

[Jc40k1]

I think Patrick Stewart would have been a good ceaser, who's with me?

[AssHat313]

@Jc40k1 Patrick Stewart makes a good anything.

[mybluecat1]

@Jc40k1 Ciaran Hinds was simply perfect as Caesar in "Rome"! He is an accomplished thespian.

[Abhi01pyaar]

And that the insufferable Mr. Elliot from Persuasion 2007. humm he looks cuter in a skirt :p

[diverdraeger]

felt so sorry for brutus here, stayed loyal until this moment when Caesar who he basically saw as his father turned on him.

[MooseHunter911]

They should have gotten a torch-stand so that poor slave could get some sleep haha

[jcr346]

I think it's funny that Caesar still tried to protect Brutus even though he knew about his impending doom which Brutus was the main piece in.

[eatwoodman]

@yakhub

I can see why you don't like the series. You have no idea what's going on to begin with.

[mrlacey888]

@yakhub This is Brutus, probably sent away because Caesar saw him as a threat, not Octavian. He calls him son because his mother was Caesars mistress.

[niniaty]

One of the best scenes in one of the best series ever made! =)

[Str4t0sPh3rE]

The dude standing over there with a torch to 'lighten' their conversation. Sometimes, you gotta wonder why words secret counseling ever got out.

C'mon! Was he necessary to be standing there like a doofus while holding his big dick that's on fire?!

[jcr346]

@Str4t0sPh3rE It's hard to play chess in the dark, also Roman slaves were very very devout seeing as their lives depended upon their masters. In fact what doesn't happen in this show but did commonly happen in life was that when a master was killed the slaves too were killed because their loyalty to their masters supposed, and usually did, carry on after their master's deaths.

[denispkpk]

@jcr346 actually it happens in the show a few times like when Servilia died her slave killed herself seconds later and when they killed Cicero his slave wanted to defend him and die (which was a hilarious scene)

[riniel17]

@denispkpk Why was it hilarious? Was it because Tyro looked so ridiculous? Or did you hate Cicero? I found it particularly entertaining how Tyro tried to defend him and Cicero just looked more annoyed and embarrassed by Tyro's defense.

[denispkpk]

@riniel17 no I like Cicero (both the actual Cicero and the one in the movie) but his slave was crying and sweating and had snot coming out of his nose and was like 3 feet tall funny looking against Titus Pullo who is a big soldierly guy...it was pretty funny

[Gaius8666a]

I wish Rome had continued on as a series. I loved it and was crushed when it was canceled.

[Zamensis]

@Gaius8666a Yeah but August's era was less conflictual than Caesar's one. Maybe a "flash back" with Scylla, Marius, all the troubled century that came before the golden age, that would be really interesting.

[legalimmigrantz]

@Gaius8666a it is unfortunate that they didn't continue. But series 1 & 2 were based upon William Shakespeare's Julius Caesar and Mark Anthony and Cleopatra, I think that is why the scripts are so good. Top series' though!

[gypsyroses198]

they really hate Macedonia in this :D everyone is like "PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME GO TO MACEDONIA" >.<

[Matismo]

"Only tyrants need to worry about tyrants killers" is it a genuine quote from Pline the Elderly ?

[WiseGuy5674]

..."Brutus will kill Caesar...the scribblers are never wrong".....Atia.

[AlexOfMacedonAOMH]

I always loved this scene, to me it is one of the best dialogue of season 1

[bisholicious]

I agree Menzies did an awesome job

[wyattbutler87]

Caesar, who is the best at strategy, ended his own life due to this conversation...he had no idea that brutus would stab him in the back like a coward.

[cgavin1]

of course there has always been strong speculation he WAS his father.

[alienlifeform11]

@cgavin1 until whoever was speculating read a book and realized he wasn't

[riniel17]

@cgavin1 Didn't realize that.

[band2eto]

The acting is so RAW and BEAUTIFUL.... damn! :D

[eliza1ofengland]

What episode is this from?

[LaMarquiseDeMerteuil]

@eliza1ofengland Extract from Episode 11, Series 1. This scene takes place about 18 minutes after the start. Both actors are superb here.

[IMSwimmer19]

I want to learn to play this game.

[mrbqstvy]

I was in a workshop with Tobias Menzies back in the mid-90's. He has just finished his first year of the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art and he was rivetting!! I'm so glad to see he got this amazing gig and doing such a wonderful job!! So proud of him!!!...and you're kicking ass too Ciaran!!! I expect nothing short of brilliance from you!!

[weirdscience81]

Brutus looked at Caesar like a tyrrant........

[weirdscience81]

Brutus stood up and liead Caesar right in the face.......

[Renton6echo]

I really think, at least in the show that what mostly drove Brutus to go along with the assassination was that ultimately he realized that Caesar did not love and trust him as a son as much as Brutus loved and trusted him as a father. Sure Caesar says he does, but that acknowledgement comes at a price and this scene really captures that.

[Maratrushka]

and then after that He kiils Cesar,,,what a traitor,,,and Cesar trust him deep inside him....

[tearsinrain86]

brutus was foolishly naive, bordering on the insane

[GUCCImontana420]

the torch holder is like 'oooo snap!'

[LaSerpentaCanta]

poor Brutus. He had a good heart but no real intelligence or comprehension of his position in the world and the outcome of his actions. I speak of the character and the real life one.

[GrundySolomon]

Character and real man, I tend to think he was pushed by the nobles and greedy men. Caesar was no saint, but he had the basic idea of leveling everything.

[Reapent]

I agree completely, he couldn't see past his emotions, in this scene at least.

[melvert33]

What if the torch holder needs a piss??!

[F4nc0]

They are wearing roman diapers :D

[tihannorubato]

@melvert33 : After that conversation, he needs to post his resume online immediately. Torcherholder seeks new position, preferably outside Rome, speaks some Latin, Large bladder, recommendation provided upon request but ask quickly...

[Gommerell]

WHOLE SERIES IS MASTERFUL Best thing i have ever seen

on TV

 i am struggling to find a weak point

[F4nc0]

Then explain why they canceld it ? :(

i love this show so much and i can't stop watching s1 and 2 over and over..wishing s3 will just come out of no where :D

[Gommerell]

@F4nc0

maybe they cancelled becuas ethey had no MAterial left ? Mark Anthony Dead , Caesar dead , Cicero Dead , Cato , Pompey , Brutus , all dead all you ahve is octavius and 40 years of consolidation now well thats what history books say . It was a very special dramatic time , that gave Shakespeare much mileage as well

;-)

[al28283]

@Gommerell they cancelled it cos it was so damn expensive, so they had to rush through series 2 and get through everything

[gdynski]

I believe that while caesar took the title of Dictatorship, (making him the key player) Octavian had the advantage of of split support between him and Antony. This was something he used to denounce Antony and make himself appear as the true pacifier of Rome. Also while Caeasar and Antony spent significant amount of time outside of Rome, with Cleopatra in Egypt, Ocatavian was close to home establishing solid friendships and taking care of his enemies, something that cost Antony his life...

[GrundySolomon]

And his 'Moral Reform' (imo) was how he beat Antony. Augustis knew what kind of man Antony was and he waited for Antony to with hold grain and than letting the whole of Rome know how Antony abanded his wife and Roman status only to offer Rome up to Cleopatra. It was only a matter of time,

Nice post btw

[alexgomez83]

classic story....could almost envision god and lucifer having the same conversation.

[kanamoon]

Just wanted to say what an awesome comment that was, I hadn't thought of this conversation in that way before but it makes perfect sense now that you mention it xD

[FEAR709]

Octavian was smarter at politics. actualy he was a genius in that think. There was a reason why he not Marc Antony Ceasar chosed to be his heir. But i doubt Octavian was a good tactican in battlefield and thats what realy matters to a man of war. After all Ceasar did conquer Gual and defeated even Pompey the Great

[PhillAlexandros]

Although I respect Caesar as a politician I think Augustus was smarter than he. Caesar moved too fast, too quickly, and the arrogance got the better of him. He really was set on building a monarchy even though he always declined the "crown." Augustus on the other hand went in pretending to be first citizen, fooled everyone into believing it, while he built a monarchy. He waited for people to get used to not thinking for themselves. But I guess Caesar didn't have the time for that - he was older

[stringerboi]

lol true

[taxmonkey123]

The slaves of the important people of Rome heard things that would shape the foundations of Western Civilization. I doubt they ever reflected on that.

[wegaify]

at 1:23 it seems brutus and caesar are still playing chess,only with their words....

[LIawIiet]

Only tyrants need worry about tyrant-killers.

Love that line.

[capacopkilla123]

the guy holding the torch must be like: "wtf?" haha

[Obsessions28]

They probably placed Non Latin Speaking Slaves to hold the Torch at Important Areas or Meetings.

[capacopkilla123]

hmmm good point but he still must be like: these fucking romans and their arguments :D

[Obsessions28]

Yeer, late into the night so that the slaves can not turn in.

[beepandbop]

Or deaf people--remember, no hearing aids in this day and age. :D

[mad7hatter]

Tobias Menzies is magic in this serie, I love his interpretation. The moral dilemma that consume him is showed in his face constantly.

He's a great actor and I love his job.

[Renton6echo]

Totally agree. I really hope we can see more of his work in the future, especially in the States!

[LordAkira]

@mad7hatter It's an impossible decision - betray your father-like friend, or give into the whispers of your mother and peers and cut him down as a tyrant - and possibly risk being killed and found out.

[digglyda]

I'm not sure popular is the right word. Certainly the role of Brutus in Shakespeares 'Julius Caesar' is one of the most demanding, interesting and rewarding parts that an actor can have to play. Tobias Menzies does very well in this series I think? Brutus is faced with an impossible clash of choosing between his friend and the Republic. His situation is horribly difficult. Brutus' flaws are always emphasised rather than his qualities. I think of Brutus as a man doing what he thinks is 'right'.

[scottweise18]

Yet it was the people and his leadership that the people truly loved. It was said that after Caesar's assassination the only ones to shout "liberty" in the streets were the murderers themselves. After Caesar's death it was said that carnage rose out among the various factions of Rome who were in allegiance with Caesar. I'm just saying I'm not sure how much of it is truthful just thought I'd say it.

[aaronharms123456]

From what Ive read the murderrers became really surprised and worried when they found that the people werent happy about the killing because of ceasars popularity. Historians say that caser would change personalitys constantly, in public he behaved in a fatherly, kind fashion and benevolent politician, in private with others he was little more then a mafia thug with an incredible brain. He cultivated his own image to the point that Antony didnt really need to do much to whip up the peoples rage.

[imperatorcaesar100]

@digglyda brutus had noble intentions, but I feel Caesar was reforming the reopublic to make it greater. ther seante was filled with corrupt aristrocrats who did not care for the common people of rome. Cewsar did care even if it was for his own selfish reasons. i feel if the senate controlled the roman state longer then it did rome would have fallen sooner then it did.

[mrchrisdavis09]

@digglyda Very true. He's really just a victim of history. Had Antony and Octavian lost the war that followed Caesar's assassination, Brutus would probably be viewed as a hero.

[DesiPanda674]

@mrchrisdavis09 i agree with you 100%

[Blackhound73]

Brutus' name, alone, garnered popularity in that his family was responsible for the founding of the Republic. A Brutus couldn't really avoid popularity.

[Krille66690]

source?

[Blackhound73]

Lucius Junius Brutus overthrew the last king of Rome and became one of the first consuls of the Republic. Thus, the Junius family was a very popular and respected patrician family throughout the life of the Republic.

[antalya1705]

The real Brutus was very different from the 'Rome' one. As for this version of his character, I don't think he's spoilt at all. And he's perfectly right: Caesar, in his infinite pride, demanded his allegiance at swordpoint. Very fatherly, eh?

[carnivalfun1]

i love how there are always random slaves just chilling during all these intense scenes

[yoda9999]

this is my favorite scene in the series

[ACxii]

brutus is such a fuckin bitch

[TheAustralianPhoenix]

I Second That haha

[PalleRasmussen]

Means he is played well, we do not actually know how he was. IMO the series does a good job of portraying his doubts. Where it fails was his motivation, which was not his mother, more likely the fact that Caesar's dictatorship blocked Cursus Honorum to ambitious young men. With Caesar removed it was open again. Octavian learned from that and kept one, later both Consulships open, so that Cursus Honorum was still attainable.

[ACxii]

In any case, Caesar was very generous and merciful when it came to most of those in the senate who opposed him. Brutus could have very well seen high power under Caesar but chose to betray him. So IMO, he was an idiot who was suckered into doing stupid things, and deserves an honorary spot in the hall of douche-bags.

[PalleRasmussen]

*Points at books*

Try to at least understand the mentality of the time and its people before writing things like that, makes you seem ignorant I am sorry to say in all my arrogance.

Brutus was from another old Roman family, he too had expectations from generations of great men to live up to. He could not serve UNDER anyone, the way Rome and the patricians worked forced him to surpass his peers. To be First Man in Rome, not serve UNDER anyone.

[fuzzyone99]

@PalleRasmussen Actually, my understanding is that a request to leave the city left one very exposed, vulnerable. For all the brutality of Rome, one - especially a political/military adversary - was in a much more dangerous position outside of it than within. Easier to knock them off that way. And if you watch the series, the plots stay very true to this theme. Every high-ranking official bites the bullet on provincial battlefields, and predictably fears & resists being sent there beforehand.

[surfing1993]

didnt brutus and gaius grow up together...like during childhood and later on brutus swears to be julius's sword this makes it look different

[boomer787]

history will always be written by the victors

[BALTHAZAAR58]

I think Caesar was something like 15 years older than Brutus, so no, they didn't really grow up together.

[PalleRasmussen]

Brutus mother was the mistress of Caesar though.

[DomWeasel]

Age meant nothing to Romans.

[PalleRasmussen]

Of course it did. Whoever told you that? Old senators where respected more than young, you needed a certain age to gain the various public offices, etc.

[DomWeasel]

I meant about Brutus' mother being a mistress of Caesar. I was speaking of Roman sexual ethics such as the practice of marrying 14 year old girls to men 3x that age or it being perfectly normal for a young man to have an older mistress.

[PalleRasmussen]

Ah I see, I am sorry. but that is not exclusively Roman, in fact that has been the norm throughout history, while our norms are in fact the atypical.

[DomWeasel]

Accidentally clicked spam rather than reply... bugger.

So very true.

[DonMeaker]

Xenophon had a new wife aged 11. Mohammed had a new wife age 9 at the time of consummated.

[IceManBgd]

Can somebody tell me where I can download episodes of Rome? thanks

[QEJS]

Just buy the goddam dvd instead of stealing it!

[mini1gerbel]

well see, if we bought them. Then maybe they will make more episodes! :D

[empreme]

They're up my ass

[Dotmw]

iTunes

[MaMoral88]

brutus was a trator

[qleophathyr]

He reminds me of a rabbit.

[rhyfeddu]

I've not seen any of this series before - but the fellow playing Brutus reminds me of Tim Piggot-Smith - for any Anglophiles out there who knows who that is...

[aeonflux67]

Its Tobias Menzies. You will see him in the last James Bond movie (Daniel Craigs debut).

[rhyfeddu]

aeonflux67 - thanks! I actually have that movie. I'll have to go back and look for him -good excuse to watch it ;)

[dardo1201]

yes its the guy serving M

[l00zekk]

wow, are there any actors in this series who isn't doing a good job?

[Alexandros1294]

lol nope. Even the slaves that don't say anything are doing a good job.

[Brettisen]

@l00zekk

I don't think so :D

[MrChug]

@l00zekk EVERYONE was cast perfectly (except for Livia, I never understood her teeth!)Menzies was the perfect combination of anger, noble presence, intellegence, and cowardess. My BIGGEST thumbs up. Ray Stevenson was a close 2nd because of his physical appearance with his brutal and sometimes aloof presence but eventually compassionate and beautifully loyal presence.

[bishoujusweetheart]

So's Menzies (Brutus) :)

[girl43]

Thx for this!

Hinds is so handsome ^^