@scottwins2 AND WITH WHAT YOU SAID I AM SOLD AND CONVINCED. IM JOINING THE MORMON CHURCH TOMORROW LMAO! SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE BUT THERE IS MORE THEN ENOUGH PROOF THAT EVERYTHING ABOUT THE MORMON CHURCH IS A GREAT BIG LIE.YOU CAN FIGHT AND DEFEND IT ALL YOU WANT. MORE POWER TO YOU. IN THE END IT MAKES YOU LOOK AS MESSED UP AS YOUR CHURCH.YOU DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT THE REALITIES OF YOUR CHURCH ON UTUBE THATS FINE. BUT I THINK DEEP DOWN IN YOUR GUT YOU KNOW THE REAL TRUTH. IT'S ALL A SICK LIE
@scottwins2 DEEP DEEP DOWN IN YOUR HEART AND SOUL YOU MUST KNOW THAT THIS REPULSIVE CHURCH IS OF SATAN. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO GAIN??? MUST BE SOME GREAT REWARD LUCIFER PROMISED YOU. I WILL NOT ARGUE WITH YOU ANY MORE BECAUSE IT IS POINTLESS. NOTHING YOU CAN SAY TO ME WILL HURT MY FEELING OR MAKE ME JOIN YOUR CHURCH. WUPS! NOT CHURCH I MEANT TO SAY SATANIC ORGANIZATION. LEAVE US NORMAL PEOPLE ALONE ALRIGHTY ;o******** HAVE A NICE LIFE :O)
LDS claim erroneously to be the one true church, therefore, according to their 1 Nephi 14:10 & D&C 1:30, everyone else is of the church of the devil. That is prideful exclusivity & abysmal deception.
@utta AN evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit. An Evil tree Brings forth Evil Fruit. Since the fruit of Joseph Smith & Brigham Youngs labors, have produced a system of Religious Govt. that does complete & utter good, I believe I will stay close to them as Christ has instructed. Muslim have sharia Law, & Force, not really what I'm looking for in a religion. Now YOU on the other hand Dadutta. Everything off your fingertips and out of your mind is Evil. I think youre the pedophile.I'm right huh?
@haidermann1 People like this Dadutta tard, have probably abused people their whole life, and have some lame excuse as to how they were abused growing up. They can't live in a world of Moral Values, or work ethic, because that goes against their Nature of narcissism and un empathetic traits that would allow them to be even remotely close to Christ like. Thus they will never associate or fit in Gods church, until they are able to be teachable and allow their hearts to change. Pride keeps them.
@Sephuskal Dadutta is the type of AntiChrist that knows he can never function inside a society with moral Values. You're correct. He is also vehemently hateful, And obviously a Hypocrite. Child molesters are always the first to accuse others of Child Molesting. Its a sad truth. I think these type of people should be hung and treated like a pinyatta.
@haidermann1 You're going to see more and more of these degenerates. Especially on the tube. Stay close to the Faith. Let these pigs wallow in their own filth.
@Sephuskal@Sephuskal Yep who needs evidence when you have faith correct? your statment is unrational and your faith is not justified with out some evidence to back up the claim but it seems you don't care if Joesph Smith was a fraud or not because its all about faith? Degenerates are people that hide behind faith and not truth when one has certainty of his belief one doesn't need faith. Christians aren't afraid of critics because they have data to fight back with you mormons have zero!
@Sephuskal Lol? Whats funny is that your part of a debunked belief system hows that for a laugh you act as though your not even interested in looking at the "evidence" to refute your book of mormon and you call people pigs "why"! because they found out its not legit which isn't very hard to do with science behind you. You embrass truth regardless of where it leads or maybe your just to affraid of the outer darkness (mormon hell) they have shoved or brainwashed you with.
@Sephuskal independent research on Joesph Smith maybe you should try it and stop being chicken to actually find out for yourself, submission with out question is wrong and degrading to your intel.
@eternalloveabbie Your statement is one of bias and hate supported by no facts. 3rd and 4th hand accounts from the mobs themselves. Joseph Smith was greatly loved by the people called "Brother Joseph" Started the Relief Society for Woman, the oldest known thriving Society in America. He was The Mayor of Nauvoo General of the Malitia a man of great character. He has 1st hand witnesses to those facts. His marraiges were not illegal. He and his brother murdered and the mob got a free pass.
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." (Matthew 7:15)
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." (Matthew 24:11)
"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." (2 Peter 2:1)
The fruits of McCrany are evil. By definition he tears harms hurts and destroys. He works for the advesary.
The LDS's viewof McCrany is Good. He is entittled to believe what and how he wants. It's his religious right. And if he does good for others he is a Child and servant to God. But you will never hear the Church leadership sink to personal attacks, and preach sermons of hate against him like he does..
what does anyone do that is good? ill go out on a limb and say...NOT A THING...so he is just a man a man that is trying to spread Gods word...and every man hurts steals lusts and destroys so is every man false?
That's not true at all. I know plenty of people who walk & talk & act as God has asked us. They keep his commandments. Believe it or not, their sins are minoot. They are truly saints. And not all are Latterday Saints many are of different beliefs than I share. But they emulate Christ and are truly Christian. I wish McCrany could meet them all so he could see what he should be like.
well Jesus did say no man could keep all the commandments and a Sin is a Sin and thats it Shawn is a good man in a sens that all he wants to do is bring people to Jesus...Jesus did love the liers and sluts so i think he would still love Shawn for speaking his word...you righteousness is but dirty rags to Jesus. so you have no foot to stand on
God never said it was ok to go ahead and sin. In fact he expects us to do our best to be like god. IN FACT.. HE COMMANDED US TO BE PERFECT.
Matt. 5: 48 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Sin is is Sin in the sense that No unclean thing can enter heaven. thats why we are to repent and be baptized and keep his commandments. And if you screw up, forgive and ask for forgiveness, make it right and move on to progress. Thats LDS 101 right there.
Matt 5:43-48 is talking about having love for your enemies have perfect love for them as heavenly Father...."For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from youselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do " (Eph. 2:8,9)......All our righteousness is like filthy rags...
I just told you all, by telling crow of death. False Teachers teache by evil fruit. Matt 7.
Evil defined is anything that Kills harms destroys or enslaves. Mccrany destroys. No man can serve two masters. McCrany loves the destroyer. he speaks evil. He has nothing good to say about the LDS ever, and his sermons are all dedicated to Tearing down the people and their beliefs.
Thus. A false Prophet / Teacher by Gods own Definition.
What are all of you? Do you serve Christ or the devil?
I asked you who YOU serve. I never told you who you serve. Don't speak evil and tell me who i serve. I'll let you know that. I'll judge for my self who I serve.
Biggotry is unbecomming, and AntiChrist in Nature.
you say he speaks evil so you saying Jesus is evil because that is all he speaks...why would he have to say anything nice about a false church? Jesus spoke out on false churches alot so just because he called people vipers and children of the devil then Jesus is a false teacher too? i serve Jesus my lord and master my king my everything but he is not my brother so i serve the real Jesus unlike the evil speaking mormons
I don't know any scripture where Jesus Spoke Evil. He spoke the truth. I called McCrany a wolf, some
may say thats speaking evil. But it's true. Christ spoke truth. He bears false witness. I point out McCrany's Bad fruit. Which is proven. Anything negative said about Gods LDS prophets are unsubstantiated.
Hear say, evil speak and Inuendo have never been the Lords way.
your prophets teach evil in there church and spread there poison lies there vipers ever remember the blood atonement saying that some sins not even Jesus blood could pay for yeah some prophets... shawn speaks truth and just because he is a siner like every man makes his truth a lie? were do you get that dumb idea?
Blood atonements a mis understood doctrine, that has circulated through thousands of doctrines.
Give me your other concerns and example that I belong to a charles manson cult of evil doers. I can refute anything that comes my way. And I'm not even an active or good lil mormon lad. But Christs Spirits made enough known to me that I'm unshakable in my testimony of Jesus christ, our Lord and Savior.
I restrained myself and said "Sh'load" instead of "Shit load".
You judguing me to be perfect are you?
jesus never taught by grace alone are we saved. its a combo of faith, efforts of obedience and where we fall short, because most of us will, Gods grace for sure.
Granny use to teach. "Every sinner has a future, and every saint has a past."
Well, LDS or not. I know a sh'load more people that act and treat others better than you. Convictions and moral values dictate how a person behaves. Everything I've read from U tells me your moral value system's lacking. Be it a Mormon Church, or any other church that testifies of Christ,. I would that you find your way there, repent, & seek contention no more. Cuz that spirit is of th Devil. You owe it to your self first, & your Heavenly siblings 2nd to Behave like a Child of God. U can do it!
did you say "SH'LOAD" ???? and you are teaching me how to behave???? hahhahaha..grow up, open your eyes and see that you have been brainwashed by a cult, become a real MAN and go live for the Lord Jesus Christ, not Joseph smith.
Can I ask you something?( I have always wondered how this a debate with people.) What is the benefit, in your opinion, Of believing that Faith only is the guarantee to a Heavenly After life?
As Opposed to observing the combination of Faith Grace and works? What is the disadvantage of Observing that Believing in Christ & his Mission, That his Power saves us, and that our Obedience to his commandments draws us near him? How is that a disadvantage for people?
well because if you think that faith works and grace save you then you nullify Gods grace even after you were told that you are only saved by having faith in Gods grace you still think your works will have any power over you fate it proves your faith in Gods grace is weak and i just want peoples faith in Jesus to be as strong as it can be i want every one to go to
Heaven it shows much more faith in saying ok i am only saved by grace and not by the works that i do but i will still do good works despite that fact that really shows great faith in Jesus and his amazing grace works is nothing in the eyes of God
im not saying that at all its good that you would want to do good things and be a good person but that will not save you only faith in Jesus grace will....and yes i do think that a robbing raping murderer can go to Heaven if he has faith in Jesus grace like the thief of the cross did what good works could he have done that got him on that cross and what did he do to deserve to be in heaven? he had faith in Jesus even tho Jesus was also on a cross that is true faith and it saved him. so can thay?
Ok. I think we are going the same direction here for a moment. & That is good! Now you asked about the thief on the cross deserving to be in Heaven. With out getting off course here and debating what Heaven is from individual to individual, Can you tell me if you believe in, Not Only Heaven, (As I already am sure you do,) but in the "third Heaven" discussed by Paul in his vision. Cor. 12:2
2 I knew a man, (Cut out some for space) (God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
Because if you believe the Bible, and I am sure you do, you should acknowledge Paul's words about the third heaven, and Logic would dictate a 1st and 2nd Heaven came before the Third.
You Acknowledge Pauls words? The Bible is correct? yea?
o yes i trust the bible to the fullest but your taking the Third Heaven out of context so ill try to clear it up for you in ancient Israel thay didnt have a full understanding of the universe as we do now so thay called the sky/earth atmosphere where the clouds and birds were the first Heaven and the second Heaven was were the stars hang and the Third Heaven is were God dwells...you see hack then thay called were the rain came from the flood gates thay didnt understand it comes from the clouds.
Well there's no mention of flood gates any where in the Bible. So that can't be used really as an explanation. If a prophet has conversed & been instructed by God & his Angels, I would have to imagine that he was well aware of the differences between Heaven and Clouds when talking about either. He would clarify that to his readers.
What about this? Going back to "Works". Do U think Christ did "works" & kept commandments to find Favor & Love from the Father? Christ's works were great right?
Now the springs of the deep and the floodgates of the heavens had been closed, and the rain had stopped falling from the sky. Genesis 8:2 calling the sky and the universe Heavens is very well said i think its not contradicting anything so it wouldnt need to be changed because you have to remember the bible was written over 2000 years ago so if he said anything other then the Heavens people of that day wouldnt understand because it wasnt discovered at that time next post will be on the works
Jesus did great works that his father in Heaven set for him to do so Gods works will not be bad he cant do bad works and he didnt do it for the Favor and love of his father he did it for MAN to save MAN not for himself and yes my Jesus is great look at the fruits of his work he is true over Mormon prophets
Well the knowledge given to people of the Old testament is Not the same as the knowledge give to the people of the new Testament, and especially after Jesus's Ministry, & resurrection. Peter to Paul is a completely different church. Other wise the Pharisees and Sagasees wouldn't have Murdered him. Jn 15:1 Christ sought his fathers love. He did for both, not just us. 9-10 he puts us to work. His same work. He did it, and expects us to do it.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Fathers commandments, and abide in his love.
To keep his commandments, is to show love as he showed the Father. Keeping his commandments. To find love from Christ puts us IN HIS GRACE. To keep the commandments is work, combined with faith, and hope to find his Grace. The same exact Work that Christ put in. Here he expects it from us.
you know yeah he wants use to keep his fathers law he made that very very clear but only having faith in Jesus can save use because no man alive today can keep all the commandments...a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus..if your have faith in Jesus you will Try your best to keep all his fathers laws but only Jesus grace can save use if we could get to Heaven by following the law then Jesus wouldnt have to die for use...Romans 10:9-10
i try my best to keep all the commandments but it is imposable to keep all of them.Eph. 2:8-9i do the works the father has set for me to do thats what we were made to do its not going to save use for doing our job only faith in Jesus but you will never understand you will live your life thinking after all you can do then you are saved by his grace so i dont know how to make it any more clear.you areONLYsaved by Jesus grace and you do his works because thats what he wants use to do in love of him
LDS understand this. You do all you can. which will never be enough, and Christ steps in for the rest.
2 Ne. 10: 24-25 24 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved.
But it is not correct to say Works has nothing to do with salvation.
James Chp 2 explains this in great persprective
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
As for the thief. His works were not. But paradise is a part of the spirit world not the celestial kingdom which comes after Judgment day.
again a mormons changing the meaning of that chapter it means if you have faith then it can be shown by your works if you say you have faith but you have bad works then you are not saved because your faith is dead..But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. see its not saying your works can save you it means that if your have faith your works will be great hens Eph. 2:8-9 you will be doing the work.....
I absolutely don't understand,.. how James, and apostle that knew the savior personally, flat out says;
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Not by faith only.. Not by faith only.. Not by faith only. not by faith only.. not by faith ALONE.
And people find fault with the LDS when they say its a combination of Faith Hope , obeying the commandments for all we can do, and then Grace definitely steps in.
This is certainly not teaching that a person must add works to faith to be saved. With God we are justified by FAITH BUT with men we are justified by WORKS. The reason is simply because mankind cannot see out heart but God can
This goes back to the thought of tiers in Heaven. To think that a robbing raping Murderer, will have the same reward, as say Enoch, Abraham Moses or the apostles of Christ, (save Judas) Steals the divinty of Gods Justice. Allowing Mercy to Rob it. Pet.1 : 6 Tells us that Charity and good works will cover our multitude of sins, and help us during Judgement day. jn 1:9 Says IF we confess, We may be forgiven. If we follow through with our end of the agreement, he fulfills his end. Works R necesary
all the prophets in the bible co inside with each other james fits rite in with Faith is salvation and works is justification of the flesh wich duz not save use
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to cforgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
2pet. 2:4 Our merciful Lord cast even the Angels to Hell. Why wouldn't he be the same as he was then?
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
You cannot understand the laws and Ordinance of God unless you understand his Government, and the three degrees of Glory. Celestial Terrestial and Telestial. To explain Gods True Grace, the prophet Joseph Smith tought that "If you could part the veil & see the lowest kingdom U would kill your self to go there. Its that much better than Earth
James clearly states, If you say you have faith and faith a lone inhis grace of atonement, but you do nothing for your neighbor. Clothe them Feed them, do charity. Do the Ordinances attend those services that strengthen you in his spirit, then it's a fools thought to think you will be justified in the highest glory of Salvation. God doesn't expect you to die and resurrect your self, but he expects your works to be mindful of His cmndmnts to confess repent be baptzd & do your best. Nothing less
James is clearly talking about being justified by MAN not by God thats why it is talking about But SOMEONE will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. you cant be justified by Faith alone in mans eyes that is all he is saying there your taking it way out of context
and the angels go to hell just like we did before Jesus payed for our sins and saved us he didnt die for the angels because the angels are in Heaven and know what is true but thay let the devil trick them into thinking thay are God as he has the Mormons
and there are no tiers in Heaven the thieve just wont have all the rewards in Heaven orCrowns that he will give to use and we will cast at Jesus feet...im sure if we got a bigger house in Heaven im sure the prophets house would be huge and his house would be small but his will still be in the same Heaven as God JS is a really bad bad man really bad look at his fruits...Killing,adultery,making you believe theres other Gods...Deu18 2-22 yeah he married other mans wife matt5 31-32 he did alotofthat
No. Now hold on a second. you need to read the whole verse. You're not reading it in context. 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
See, the faith is not perfect by itself. The works combined with faith is what makes it perfect, and then your justified. section 14 alone, he's plainly saing faith alone isn't enough for the Law. Angel or man. god only redeems those who follow gim and believe on him, which means working his commandments.
And you speaking Evil of Joseph smithis unfounded. You only get those accusations by fellow people you have listened to speaking Evil of him. He never Murdered any one, or had them murdered. He never committed adultry. Hen never married othermens wives, as you and I would think of Normal Marrying. Those were called sealings. Whole families were sealed to the Prophet. And Joseph Smith Never put any other Gods above God the Father, Not even Jesus Christ himself. He kept the order of things right.
never put other Gods befor him there are NO other Gods befor or after and it is a FACT that he did thos things your just trying to cover it up by saying...o no that never happined but even his own wife told of his evil deeds
150 years ago and today is almost ALMOST the same really close matt 10 34-36 Jesus bashed other religions ALOT and talked about them ALOT and Mormons are NOT Christians
Yea right. He could have bashed the Romans, he could have Bashed the Samaritans who were Hated and persecuted by the Jews. He never did. The only time he ever got "Huffy" was when the Pharisees and Jewish leadership tried to ensnare him, the way other sects do LDS. The only time Jesus Rages is when they defile his fathers temple.
He taught by Love and affection, forgiveness and Charity. Something the rest of these 'So Called Christians" could learn from the Savior.
as a Catholic we are taught to love every one no matter what,forgive people for every bad deed thay do agenst you and give what you can to the church its not charity if you have a set % say like the mormons having to pay 10% when did Jesus ever say you give 10%...the woman who gave a few cents gave more then any rich man had given but she was not set to a set amount she had to give so i guess mormons have some thing to learn from Christians
Where is your love the? You have the audacity to tell, not ask others whether or not they are Christian, .
Num 18 for old test. 26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the Lord, even a tenth part of the tithe.
Mal. 8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Abraham never tithed on his own personal property or livestock.Jacob wouldn't tithe until God blessed him first.Only Levite priests could collect tithes, and there are no Levite priests today.Only food products from the land were tithable.Money was never a titheable commodity.Christian converts were never asked to tithe anything to the Church...i love every man and woman of this earth every last one and if God gave theknowledge to know a false church so we shouldnt protect our brother from evil?
They tithed commodities and interest earned from monies.
If I were you, I'd take a couple college classes on Humanities, psychology, and social sciences. Because you don't show people you care about them by attacking their beliefs culture and heritage lol.
Or you could save your college tuition money and actually read the Bible and learn from Christthe Master himself on how to treat people right and let them know you care.
I'd try that first, but hey,.. thats just me.. a wacky cult member.
Deuteronomy 13 if was to go to the bible then i should kill the false prophet or anyone that trys to lead any one to other Gods but i love people to much to kill...so even if some one is in a false church i should sit back and let them go to hell? thats like telling a drugy that drugs are good for you its a lie you should help them to get off the drugs and show them the way so your church is false now that you heard the truth its up to you follow God or follow the devil its up to you
LOL. O man. Jesus came to fulfill the law of Moses, not despite it. Thats why he intervened with the harlot that was about to be stoned. Aside from the principals and ordinances of those early steps with the law of moses, christs church was the New way.
Even though the apostasy happened, and was restored through Joseph Smith in the latter days, there's a happy medium of love and discipline with the savior. Deutoronomy is done away with. Christ is the New way, 2000 years later even.
yep he is all ways the way..so should i just let people follow a false church and go to hell? if your church is the true church what makes it true? and why are you Christians ?
Let me ask you this. You have a family member, who is getting into trouble with the wrong crowd. You see misery down the road for them. How do you address your concern for them?
Later they actually fall prey to drugs alcohol, sexual deviance, what do you say to them then?
Even if they go through their own personal Hell over their poor decisions, as a christian how should you speak to them?
well i have many many family members that are on the wrong or down the wrong road as we speak i talk to them as i all ways do with love but i would never tell them that were friends that are in and out of jail on drugs and beat people that were a good crowd of people to and with but i tell them thay were on the wrong path and that thay need to change there ways so all and all i only tell them the TRUTH.
i say what thay are doing is evil but you know man is evil if thay were in a cult or gang id bash the gang or cult and tell them how bad and weak it is of them and i do say if your not following God and his word then your a follower of satan but that God still loves them no matter what thay have done and i do everything i can to get them away from the gangs the drugs and everything that is hurting them or leading them on the path to hell
Well I wrk with people in this capacity in R.L. And I'm telling you now from experience, if you Attack what they are attached to, use to, addicted to, you will create a spirit of contention, which is of the Devil. But if you do what christ did, and be kind and loving and supportive. Express an importance of a relationship with God & the Savior, they will see the fruit is good, and you wont need to state the Obvious.
im not going to dance around and tell them its ok to do what thay do and killing witch is also of the devil so should i dance around and be like o its ok your founders killed people and preached killing being good thats just dumb to think your church didnt do thos things its dumb and sens you know what happins to people when there addictions are attacked then thats cant happin to you rite?
Who did Joseph smith or any of his constituants kill? Tell me? Joseph lost 5 children do to mobs. You hear about Mt. meadows massacre, but no one tells the story of the Haun mill massacre do they? Or that the saints Constitutional rights were completely stripped away, and it was even made legal to murder a Mormon in the Mid west.
There's not an ounce of evil associated with the LDS leadership. You've chosen to side with lies slander gossip and inuendo. The stuff Christ warned about.
your prophet Young had many many people killed (blood atonment) so what your prophet preached was miss understood then dont youthink he would try to clearit up insted of going along with it and killing people?
Thats right, the first catholic priest allowed the Evil Mormons to allow him the use of their tabernacle, and safe passage to the local indian tribes. And today the Catholics sit back and let the Evil Mormons get death threats over Prop 8. But thats ok, because persecution is a sign of a true church. If church members don't understand blood atonement, Non Church members sure wont. i can tell you this, it has nothing to do with Murder. Similarily its like what Abrahams sacrafice was about
Early anti-Mormon writers charged that under Brigham Young the Church practiced "blood Atonement," by which they meant Church-instigated violence directed at dissenters, enemies, and strangers. This claim distorted the whole idea of blood atonement which was based on voluntary submission by an offender—into a supposed justification of involuntary punishment
Brigham Young taught that in a complete theocracy the Lord could require the voluntary shedding of a murderer's blood presumably by capital punishment as part of the process of Atonement for such grievous sin. If you read the entire article in Mormon Doctrine you will find that he did agree that the concept was mentioned in some statements by leaders of the church when they were talking about it in regards to people of past dispensations who practiced it.
you know rite befor JS died he shot and killed people yeah what a martyr and we all know what blood atonment is the church is just trying to make excuses so people wont think there evil but hey the devil is the master of trickery
U would sit there, and let your brother and friends get murdered up by swine would ya? Not surprised by that actually. He was given the pistol by the guard, The dictionary describes martyrdom as "the suffering of death on account of adherence to a cause and especially to one's religious faith." This describes perfectly the circumstances surrounding the death of Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum.
I'd shed blood to save an innocent in a heart beat. & I demand the blood of murderers. Thats a law
LOL what an evil bastard.. he shot back at someone trying to kill he and his brother and friends. What kind of argument are you presenting? seriously.
1 he wasnt killed for his religion 2 jesus didnt fight back 3 peter didnt fight back 4 the prophets of jesus didnt demand blood for the killing of jesus 5 its a gift to be persecuted under Christianity 6 many of my saints have been killed for there religion and didnt fight back so why did JS
1 the hell he didn't. 2 Jesus wasn't supposed to fight back. 3 peter took a guys ear off with his sword 4 the apostles scattered when Jesus was killed 5 it's not a gift it's a test of faith 6 Many of your saints and priesthood officials have killed people and tortured people for not turning to catholicism, So you shouldn't be "chuckin rocks" when you live in a glass house.
He wasn't killed for his religion. lol what the crap man. News papers ran all over the country that Mormonism was dead, Joe Smith has been slain, and Mormonism no more.
How much more dieing for religion can you get!? C'mon gertrude.
Man you are so terribly mis guided. They took pres. Smith to jail over & Over & over & over again & tried to kill him, even made killing mormons legal before Plurality was an issue.
In a way you're right tho actually.
He had to seal his testimony with his blood because he put off the law Sealings.
If the issues of adultery were true, emma would have came out a victim after it was all over, but instead of saving face, she told the truth, stood by the prophet even in death. Acknowledged the BOM
@crowofdeath2 What you say of Joseph Smith here is not correct and not supported in any fact whatsoever. A fly by character assinasion it appears. What mans wife was this and where was he in the mob? Joseph was gunned down in cold blood as was his brother Hyram.
@scottwins2 In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith. is a great book on this and its not by an anti mormon. it is a biography of each of the wives, and shows how they often had to live a double life.
@scottwins2 Andrew Jenson, The Historical Record 6. Andrew was a church historian and that book was accepted by your prophets so there you go you church admits it. weighed, measured and absolutely found wanting.
As for Mormons, you're dealing with a belief in god. A Faith. The fact is none of us know whats going to Happen when we die. We hope and have faith that our work and efforts have not been for nothing.
You're catholic. I have been told by some members the roman catholic church is the abominable whore discussedin rev. DO I ever say that? no. I never mention Pope Benedict was a Hitler youth. I don't need to use Bad fruit to do the work for Christ. I focus solely on christ, no matter the religion.
say what you like about the catholics its just a church thats all i dont worship it or the pope or mary i only worship God and thats it. catholics dont like mormons soo much because your founders said are book is not enough you bashed us from the start and then out of no were mormons are like..o why are you persecuting us so much we have done nothing to anyone but then you turn around and say o there not the true church we are...
The fact is, when I use evil destructive tactics, regardless if I believe its for their good or not, I am acting Anti Christ not pro Christ. And I dunno why, but Catholics and Mormons should be getting a long better than theother religions, but there is a huge Hatred for Mormons right now by Catholics. Really it boils down to the two faiths,.. because all the other churches come from off shoots of catholicism.
I just don't understand the Hatred coming from supposed Catholics right now.
If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved " (Romans 10:9, 10) you see the justified part see id didnt say you were justified by faith and works...by faith with works you are justified by man not God its by your heart you are justified
@haidermann1 He tears down lies, just as Joseph claimed to do. Joseph viciously attacked Catholics and Protestants, Shawn attacks Mormonism, Jesus attacked the Pharisees.
@Dadutta Please. Really? Provide me one quote from Joseph Smith, one credible quote where he viciously attacked Catholics and Protestants. Jesus Never attacked the Pharisees, or Saducees. He stood up to them and corrected them, and when they persisted to be aggressive he called them for what they were. But he never initiated a single attack. Nor did Joseph Smith. But your false Prophet McCrany does. Because of shame and Pride.
@Dadutta Actually if you take a moment in your life to read the history of the first Vision, you will read that it was not Joseph saying the churches were an Abomination it was Christ himself, and secondly he was referring to those churches during the revival throughout the New york Area around him. He never named Catholics Calvanists,, Baptists, Lutherans or any of those denominations specifically when Christ told Joseph this..
@Dadutta How bout reading the ldsdotorg site itself? since the church sanctions what it puts on there
History of the Church, Volume 1, Chapters 1 : 5
18My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join.
19I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight;
@Dadutta Yea you stupid Ass. "They" meaning the sects during the rivival of upstate New York. He never mentioned any but them. Why don't you take your own advice and keep it in context Jack hole.
@haidermann1 if all faiths are wrong, then that includes all faiths. accoridng to mormonism, all faiths are wrong, and that includes calvinism, judaism, buddhism, islam, everythign, whether they are named or not, you stupid oaf
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my awords; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
Who are we to Shut Gods Mouth? To tell him he need not speak any more. A fools thought.
If you think thatthe Bible we have today is ALL of Gods word, you're a fool. The catholic Church itself has Thousands of Records left out by King James. They use them still. Where's the outcry to them, like the LDS?
Who si the FOOL here?? You believe in Joseph smith, a con artist, a false prophet, a lier, a child molester (One of his 34 wives was only 14)..who is the fool??
Prove all that. take your Hearsay to a court of Law and see how well hear say holds up in Court.
You are like the Pharisees that murdered the Savior. They had no proof, no reason no case. YOU are sounding more andmore Anti Christ the more you type.
If Christ appeared today, you would deny him, based on what you reveal to me now.
Hypersexuality is a common reaction to extreme trauma. A need to recreate the traumatic event ritually is also common. Either by reliving the trauma or to create a similar level of danger.
This author is speaking from Freudian mysticism. This Oedipus complex stuff is bs. No one believes in Freud anymore. Jungian psychology might be more edifying in understanding Smith.
I don't see how the mormon men who have alot of wives can keep up with this lifestyle. I was taught he was a martyr. Now I know the truth. Thanks for info.
You appear to follow the mob.
scottwins2 4 weeks ago
@scottwins2 AND BECAUSE YOU SAY SO THEN IT'S GOTTA BE TRUE...RIGHT? WRONG LMAO!!!! COWARD
eternalloveabbie 4 weeks ago
@eternalloveabbie I am surprised your hate doesn't burn you up inside.
scottwins2 4 weeks ago
@scottwins2 LMAO!!!! NOTHING WRONG WITH HATING EVIL LOL!
eternalloveabbie 4 weeks ago
THERE ARE ENDLESS FACTS PROVING WHAT JOE SMITH IS. BEAST OF INSANITY
eternalloveabbie 4 weeks ago 3
Spin it Shawn spin it
scottwins2 1 month ago
@scottwins2 AND WITH WHAT YOU SAID I AM SOLD AND CONVINCED. IM JOINING THE MORMON CHURCH TOMORROW LMAO! SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE BUT THERE IS MORE THEN ENOUGH PROOF THAT EVERYTHING ABOUT THE MORMON CHURCH IS A GREAT BIG LIE.YOU CAN FIGHT AND DEFEND IT ALL YOU WANT. MORE POWER TO YOU. IN THE END IT MAKES YOU LOOK AS MESSED UP AS YOUR CHURCH.YOU DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT THE REALITIES OF YOUR CHURCH ON UTUBE THATS FINE. BUT I THINK DEEP DOWN IN YOUR GUT YOU KNOW THE REAL TRUTH. IT'S ALL A SICK LIE
eternalloveabbie 4 weeks ago 3
@eternalloveabbie Again, no facts as usual.
scottwins2 4 weeks ago
@scottwins2 YOU WANT ENDLESS FACTS??? TRY THE INTERNET LMAO! AND IF YOU NEED ANY HELP WITH THAT GO ASK MOMMY AND DADDY LOL!
eternalloveabbie 4 weeks ago 2
@scottwins2 DEEP DEEP DOWN IN YOUR HEART AND SOUL YOU MUST KNOW THAT THIS REPULSIVE CHURCH IS OF SATAN. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO GAIN??? MUST BE SOME GREAT REWARD LUCIFER PROMISED YOU. I WILL NOT ARGUE WITH YOU ANY MORE BECAUSE IT IS POINTLESS. NOTHING YOU CAN SAY TO ME WILL HURT MY FEELING OR MAKE ME JOIN YOUR CHURCH. WUPS! NOT CHURCH I MEANT TO SAY SATANIC ORGANIZATION. LEAVE US NORMAL PEOPLE ALONE ALRIGHTY ;o******** HAVE A NICE LIFE :O)
eternalloveabbie 4 weeks ago 2
SPIN IT SHAWN, SPIN IT!
scottwins2 2 months ago
Joseph Smith was a polygamist pedophile !!!!
Dadutta 11 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
LDS claim erroneously to be the one true church, therefore, according to their 1 Nephi 14:10 & D&C 1:30, everyone else is of the church of the devil. That is prideful exclusivity & abysmal deception.
Dadutta 11 months ago
Poor but who is doctor marine? an antimormon?
dorisfenella 11 months ago
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY MORMONS COVER UP FOR JOE SMITH. HE IS WHAT HE IS PERIOD! A SICKO LIEING EVIL CHILD MOLESTING INSANE FOOL.
eternalloveabbie 1 year ago 9
@eternalloveabbie how did he lie? who did he molest? what evil has the prophet Joseph smith done? (peace be up on him)
haidermann1 11 months ago
@haidermann1 "peace be upon him" ? it's so funny that you would treat him like Mohammed, seeing as they were both pedophiles and false prophets....!
He had his way with minors, you fool !
Dadutta 11 months ago
@Dadutta # Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you, John 14:27
# in me ye might have peace, John 16:33
# saith unto them, Peace be unto you, John 20:19
# peace, to every man that worketh good, Rom. 2:10
# we have peace with God through our Lord, Rom. 5:1
You're not very Smart are you.
haidermann1 11 months ago
@haidermann1 how stupid are you? you used the exact formula the muslims do!
you mormons and muslims are so alike; you follow a false prophet, a polygamist, a pedophile !!!!
Dadutta 11 months ago
@utta AN evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit. An Evil tree Brings forth Evil Fruit. Since the fruit of Joseph Smith & Brigham Youngs labors, have produced a system of Religious Govt. that does complete & utter good, I believe I will stay close to them as Christ has instructed. Muslim have sharia Law, & Force, not really what I'm looking for in a religion. Now YOU on the other hand Dadutta. Everything off your fingertips and out of your mind is Evil. I think youre the pedophile.I'm right huh?
haidermann1 11 months ago
@haidermann1 People like this Dadutta tard, have probably abused people their whole life, and have some lame excuse as to how they were abused growing up. They can't live in a world of Moral Values, or work ethic, because that goes against their Nature of narcissism and un empathetic traits that would allow them to be even remotely close to Christ like. Thus they will never associate or fit in Gods church, until they are able to be teachable and allow their hearts to change. Pride keeps them.
Sephuskal 11 months ago
@Sephuskal Dadutta is the type of AntiChrist that knows he can never function inside a society with moral Values. You're correct. He is also vehemently hateful, And obviously a Hypocrite. Child molesters are always the first to accuse others of Child Molesting. Its a sad truth. I think these type of people should be hung and treated like a pinyatta.
haidermann1 11 months ago
@haidermann1 You're going to see more and more of these degenerates. Especially on the tube. Stay close to the Faith. Let these pigs wallow in their own filth.
Sephuskal 11 months ago
@Sephuskal I say bring the pigs to me. Theyr'e all cowards.
haidermann1 11 months ago
@Sephuskal @Sephuskal Yep who needs evidence when you have faith correct? your statment is unrational and your faith is not justified with out some evidence to back up the claim but it seems you don't care if Joesph Smith was a fraud or not because its all about faith? Degenerates are people that hide behind faith and not truth when one has certainty of his belief one doesn't need faith. Christians aren't afraid of critics because they have data to fight back with you mormons have zero!
wachnathan 9 months ago
@wachnathan LOL @ "Unrational" where did you go to school? Clearly you are educated and know what the Hell you're talking about.
Sephuskal 9 months ago
@Sephuskal Lol? Whats funny is that your part of a debunked belief system hows that for a laugh you act as though your not even interested in looking at the "evidence" to refute your book of mormon and you call people pigs "why"! because they found out its not legit which isn't very hard to do with science behind you. You embrass truth regardless of where it leads or maybe your just to affraid of the outer darkness (mormon hell) they have shoved or brainwashed you with.
wachnathan 9 months ago
@Sephuskal independent research on Joesph Smith maybe you should try it and stop being chicken to actually find out for yourself, submission with out question is wrong and degrading to your intel.
wachnathan 9 months ago
@Dadutta LOL whats the exact formula? Tell me please, I love watching Train wrecks.
Sephuskal 11 months ago
@eternalloveabbie Your statement is one of bias and hate supported by no facts. 3rd and 4th hand accounts from the mobs themselves. Joseph Smith was greatly loved by the people called "Brother Joseph" Started the Relief Society for Woman, the oldest known thriving Society in America. He was The Mayor of Nauvoo General of the Malitia a man of great character. He has 1st hand witnesses to those facts. His marraiges were not illegal. He and his brother murdered and the mob got a free pass.
scottwins2 1 month ago
psychosis
gerryhiles 1 year ago
JOSEPH SMITH IS A VERY SICK MONSTER
eternalloveabbie 1 year ago
@eternalloveabbie Amen
Dadutta 1 year ago
That's like a serial killer
motelcalifornia 1 year ago
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." (Matthew 7:15)
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." (Matthew 24:11)
"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." (2 Peter 2:1)
haidermann1 2 years ago
Thats what this Shawn McCraney is. A wolf in sheeps clothing. You all follow this false teacher.
haidermann1 2 years ago
what id shawn ever say that was wrong?
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
You may judge a tree by it's fruits Mathew 7:16
The fruits of McCrany are evil. By definition he tears harms hurts and destroys. He works for the advesary.
The LDS's viewof McCrany is Good. He is entittled to believe what and how he wants. It's his religious right. And if he does good for others he is a Child and servant to God. But you will never hear the Church leadership sink to personal attacks, and preach sermons of hate against him like he does..
What does he offer that is good?
haidermann1 2 years ago
what does anyone do that is good? ill go out on a limb and say...NOT A THING...so he is just a man a man that is trying to spread Gods word...and every man hurts steals lusts and destroys so is every man false?
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
That's not true at all. I know plenty of people who walk & talk & act as God has asked us. They keep his commandments. Believe it or not, their sins are minoot. They are truly saints. And not all are Latterday Saints many are of different beliefs than I share. But they emulate Christ and are truly Christian. I wish McCrany could meet them all so he could see what he should be like.
haidermann1 2 years ago
well Jesus did say no man could keep all the commandments and a Sin is a Sin and thats it Shawn is a good man in a sens that all he wants to do is bring people to Jesus...Jesus did love the liers and sluts so i think he would still love Shawn for speaking his word...you righteousness is but dirty rags to Jesus. so you have no foot to stand on
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
God never said it was ok to go ahead and sin. In fact he expects us to do our best to be like god. IN FACT.. HE COMMANDED US TO BE PERFECT.
Matt. 5: 48 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Sin is is Sin in the sense that No unclean thing can enter heaven. thats why we are to repent and be baptized and keep his commandments. And if you screw up, forgive and ask for forgiveness, make it right and move on to progress. Thats LDS 101 right there.
haidermann1 2 years ago
Matt 5:43-48 is talking about having love for your enemies have perfect love for them as heavenly Father...."For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from youselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do " (Eph. 2:8,9)......All our righteousness is like filthy rags...
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Works is not saving your self. It is Following and keeping the commandments.
Christ expects an understanding from us of a combination of faith, grace, works, & blessings. To accept and be one with him.
If you love me keep my commandments. Thats what he has asked if us.
haidermann1 2 years ago
@haidermann1 take your own advice and stop blaspheming
Dadutta 11 months ago
@haidermann1 are you gay? you sound like a homosexual
Dadutta 11 months ago
Prove he is a false teacher.
theTruthNotLies 2 years ago
I just told you all, by telling crow of death. False Teachers teache by evil fruit. Matt 7.
Evil defined is anything that Kills harms destroys or enslaves. Mccrany destroys. No man can serve two masters. McCrany loves the destroyer. he speaks evil. He has nothing good to say about the LDS ever, and his sermons are all dedicated to Tearing down the people and their beliefs.
Thus. A false Prophet / Teacher by Gods own Definition.
What are all of you? Do you serve Christ or the devil?
haidermann1 2 years ago
I serve Christ, the biblical one....and you serve the devil and his son Joseph smith
theTruthNotLies 2 years ago
I asked you who YOU serve. I never told you who you serve. Don't speak evil and tell me who i serve. I'll let you know that. I'll judge for my self who I serve.
Biggotry is unbecomming, and AntiChrist in Nature.
haidermann1 2 years ago
you say he speaks evil so you saying Jesus is evil because that is all he speaks...why would he have to say anything nice about a false church? Jesus spoke out on false churches alot so just because he called people vipers and children of the devil then Jesus is a false teacher too? i serve Jesus my lord and master my king my everything but he is not my brother so i serve the real Jesus unlike the evil speaking mormons
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
I don't know any scripture where Jesus Spoke Evil. He spoke the truth. I called McCrany a wolf, some
may say thats speaking evil. But it's true. Christ spoke truth. He bears false witness. I point out McCrany's Bad fruit. Which is proven. Anything negative said about Gods LDS prophets are unsubstantiated.
Hear say, evil speak and Inuendo have never been the Lords way.
haidermann1 2 years ago
your prophets teach evil in there church and spread there poison lies there vipers ever remember the blood atonement saying that some sins not even Jesus blood could pay for yeah some prophets... shawn speaks truth and just because he is a siner like every man makes his truth a lie? were do you get that dumb idea?
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Blood atonements a mis understood doctrine, that has circulated through thousands of doctrines.
Give me your other concerns and example that I belong to a charles manson cult of evil doers. I can refute anything that comes my way. And I'm not even an active or good lil mormon lad. But Christs Spirits made enough known to me that I'm unshakable in my testimony of Jesus christ, our Lord and Savior.
haidermann1 2 years ago
Jesus your savior??? According to the MORMON CULT you are saved by WORKS not JESUS alone, so what are you trying to say???
theTruthNotLies 2 years ago
I restrained myself and said "Sh'load" instead of "Shit load".
You judguing me to be perfect are you?
jesus never taught by grace alone are we saved. its a combo of faith, efforts of obedience and where we fall short, because most of us will, Gods grace for sure.
Granny use to teach. "Every sinner has a future, and every saint has a past."
haidermann1 2 years ago
You will judge yourself?? hahahahhaha..who are you...God?? oh yes, all mormons think they will become Gods...hahaahha
theTruthNotLies 2 years ago
Nah read more carefully. I said I will judge for my self, IE. Descide for my self who and what master I serve.
Don't you decide for me. Thats the other problem, you and people like you putting words in good people's mouths.
It's destructive. Like lucifer
haidermann1 2 years ago
PEOPLE LIKE YOU?? are you better than me just because you are a MORMON?
Talking about Lucifer did you know that Joseph smith is his son?
theTruthNotLies 2 years ago
Well, LDS or not. I know a sh'load more people that act and treat others better than you. Convictions and moral values dictate how a person behaves. Everything I've read from U tells me your moral value system's lacking. Be it a Mormon Church, or any other church that testifies of Christ,. I would that you find your way there, repent, & seek contention no more. Cuz that spirit is of th Devil. You owe it to your self first, & your Heavenly siblings 2nd to Behave like a Child of God. U can do it!
haidermann1 2 years ago
did you say "SH'LOAD" ???? and you are teaching me how to behave???? hahhahaha..grow up, open your eyes and see that you have been brainwashed by a cult, become a real MAN and go live for the Lord Jesus Christ, not Joseph smith.
theTruthNotLies 2 years ago
hello i have been away for a few days and i just got back to my comp so heres something to think about
Galatians 2:15-21
it shows it only by faith and not by works
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Can I ask you something?( I have always wondered how this a debate with people.) What is the benefit, in your opinion, Of believing that Faith only is the guarantee to a Heavenly After life?
As Opposed to observing the combination of Faith Grace and works? What is the disadvantage of Observing that Believing in Christ & his Mission, That his Power saves us, and that our Obedience to his commandments draws us near him? How is that a disadvantage for people?
haidermann1 2 years ago
well because if you think that faith works and grace save you then you nullify Gods grace even after you were told that you are only saved by having faith in Gods grace you still think your works will have any power over you fate it proves your faith in Gods grace is weak and i just want peoples faith in Jesus to be as strong as it can be i want every one to go to
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Heaven it shows much more faith in saying ok i am only saved by grace and not by the works that i do but i will still do good works despite that fact that really shows great faith in Jesus and his amazing grace works is nothing in the eyes of God
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
SO are you saying that people are wrong for wanting to do and show more for their savior, Jesus the Christ?
Also,.. Do you believe that because of Christs Grace, Even the robbing raping Murderer will go to Heaven?
haidermann1 2 years ago
im not saying that at all its good that you would want to do good things and be a good person but that will not save you only faith in Jesus grace will....and yes i do think that a robbing raping murderer can go to Heaven if he has faith in Jesus grace like the thief of the cross did what good works could he have done that got him on that cross and what did he do to deserve to be in heaven? he had faith in Jesus even tho Jesus was also on a cross that is true faith and it saved him. so can thay?
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Ok. I think we are going the same direction here for a moment. & That is good! Now you asked about the thief on the cross deserving to be in Heaven. With out getting off course here and debating what Heaven is from individual to individual, Can you tell me if you believe in, Not Only Heaven, (As I already am sure you do,) but in the "third Heaven" discussed by Paul in his vision. Cor. 12:2
2 I knew a man, (Cut out some for space) (God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
haidermann1 2 years ago
Because if you believe the Bible, and I am sure you do, you should acknowledge Paul's words about the third heaven, and Logic would dictate a 1st and 2nd Heaven came before the Third.
You Acknowledge Pauls words? The Bible is correct? yea?
haidermann1 2 years ago
o yes i trust the bible to the fullest but your taking the Third Heaven out of context so ill try to clear it up for you in ancient Israel thay didnt have a full understanding of the universe as we do now so thay called the sky/earth atmosphere where the clouds and birds were the first Heaven and the second Heaven was were the stars hang and the Third Heaven is were God dwells...you see hack then thay called were the rain came from the flood gates thay didnt understand it comes from the clouds.
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Well there's no mention of flood gates any where in the Bible. So that can't be used really as an explanation. If a prophet has conversed & been instructed by God & his Angels, I would have to imagine that he was well aware of the differences between Heaven and Clouds when talking about either. He would clarify that to his readers.
What about this? Going back to "Works". Do U think Christ did "works" & kept commandments to find Favor & Love from the Father? Christ's works were great right?
haidermann1 2 years ago
Now the springs of the deep and the floodgates of the heavens had been closed, and the rain had stopped falling from the sky. Genesis 8:2 calling the sky and the universe Heavens is very well said i think its not contradicting anything so it wouldnt need to be changed because you have to remember the bible was written over 2000 years ago so if he said anything other then the Heavens people of that day wouldnt understand because it wasnt discovered at that time next post will be on the works
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Jesus did great works that his father in Heaven set for him to do so Gods works will not be bad he cant do bad works and he didnt do it for the Favor and love of his father he did it for MAN to save MAN not for himself and yes my Jesus is great look at the fruits of his work he is true over Mormon prophets
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Well the knowledge given to people of the Old testament is Not the same as the knowledge give to the people of the new Testament, and especially after Jesus's Ministry, & resurrection. Peter to Paul is a completely different church. Other wise the Pharisees and Sagasees wouldn't have Murdered him. Jn 15:1 Christ sought his fathers love. He did for both, not just us. 9-10 he puts us to work. His same work. He did it, and expects us to do it.
haidermann1 2 years ago
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Fathers commandments, and abide in his love.
To keep his commandments, is to show love as he showed the Father. Keeping his commandments. To find love from Christ puts us IN HIS GRACE. To keep the commandments is work, combined with faith, and hope to find his Grace. The same exact Work that Christ put in. Here he expects it from us.
haidermann1 2 years ago
you know yeah he wants use to keep his fathers law he made that very very clear but only having faith in Jesus can save use because no man alive today can keep all the commandments...a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus..if your have faith in Jesus you will Try your best to keep all his fathers laws but only Jesus grace can save use if we could get to Heaven by following the law then Jesus wouldnt have to die for use...Romans 10:9-10
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
i try my best to keep all the commandments but it is imposable to keep all of them.Eph. 2:8-9i do the works the father has set for me to do thats what we were made to do its not going to save use for doing our job only faith in Jesus but you will never understand you will live your life thinking after all you can do then you are saved by his grace so i dont know how to make it any more clear.you areONLYsaved by Jesus grace and you do his works because thats what he wants use to do in love of him
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
LDS understand this. You do all you can. which will never be enough, and Christ steps in for the rest.
2 Ne. 10: 24-25 24 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved.
That goes with out saying.
haidermann1 2 years ago
But it is not correct to say Works has nothing to do with salvation.
James Chp 2 explains this in great persprective
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
haidermann1 2 years ago
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
As for the thief. His works were not. But paradise is a part of the spirit world not the celestial kingdom which comes after Judgment day.
haidermann1 2 years ago
again a mormons changing the meaning of that chapter it means if you have faith then it can be shown by your works if you say you have faith but you have bad works then you are not saved because your faith is dead..But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. see its not saying your works can save you it means that if your have faith your works will be great hens Eph. 2:8-9 you will be doing the work.....
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
the works God has set for you to do because you are saved see your works cant save you but your faith can bring great works or you have no real faith
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
I absolutely don't understand,.. how James, and apostle that knew the savior personally, flat out says;
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Not by faith only.. Not by faith only.. Not by faith only. not by faith only.. not by faith ALONE.
And people find fault with the LDS when they say its a combination of Faith Hope , obeying the commandments for all we can do, and then Grace definitely steps in.
I don't get it.
haidermann1 2 years ago
This is certainly not teaching that a person must add works to faith to be saved. With God we are justified by FAITH BUT with men we are justified by WORKS. The reason is simply because mankind cannot see out heart but God can
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
This goes back to the thought of tiers in Heaven. To think that a robbing raping Murderer, will have the same reward, as say Enoch, Abraham Moses or the apostles of Christ, (save Judas) Steals the divinty of Gods Justice. Allowing Mercy to Rob it. Pet.1 : 6 Tells us that Charity and good works will cover our multitude of sins, and help us during Judgement day. jn 1:9 Says IF we confess, We may be forgiven. If we follow through with our end of the agreement, he fulfills his end. Works R necesary
haidermann1 2 years ago
all the prophets in the bible co inside with each other james fits rite in with Faith is salvation and works is justification of the flesh wich duz not save use
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to cforgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
2pet. 2:4 Our merciful Lord cast even the Angels to Hell. Why wouldn't he be the same as he was then?
haidermann1 2 years ago
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
You cannot understand the laws and Ordinance of God unless you understand his Government, and the three degrees of Glory. Celestial Terrestial and Telestial. To explain Gods True Grace, the prophet Joseph Smith tought that "If you could part the veil & see the lowest kingdom U would kill your self to go there. Its that much better than Earth
haidermann1 2 years ago
James clearly states, If you say you have faith and faith a lone inhis grace of atonement, but you do nothing for your neighbor. Clothe them Feed them, do charity. Do the Ordinances attend those services that strengthen you in his spirit, then it's a fools thought to think you will be justified in the highest glory of Salvation. God doesn't expect you to die and resurrect your self, but he expects your works to be mindful of His cmndmnts to confess repent be baptzd & do your best. Nothing less
haidermann1 2 years ago
James is clearly talking about being justified by MAN not by God thats why it is talking about But SOMEONE will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. you cant be justified by Faith alone in mans eyes that is all he is saying there your taking it way out of context
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
and the angels go to hell just like we did before Jesus payed for our sins and saved us he didnt die for the angels because the angels are in Heaven and know what is true but thay let the devil trick them into thinking thay are God as he has the Mormons
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
and there are no tiers in Heaven the thieve just wont have all the rewards in Heaven orCrowns that he will give to use and we will cast at Jesus feet...im sure if we got a bigger house in Heaven im sure the prophets house would be huge and his house would be small but his will still be in the same Heaven as God JS is a really bad bad man really bad look at his fruits...Killing,adultery,making you believe theres other Gods...Deu18 2-22 yeah he married other mans wife matt5 31-32 he did alotofthat
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
No. Now hold on a second. you need to read the whole verse. You're not reading it in context. 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
See, the faith is not perfect by itself. The works combined with faith is what makes it perfect, and then your justified. section 14 alone, he's plainly saing faith alone isn't enough for the Law. Angel or man. god only redeems those who follow gim and believe on him, which means working his commandments.
haidermann1 2 years ago
And you speaking Evil of Joseph smithis unfounded. You only get those accusations by fellow people you have listened to speaking Evil of him. He never Murdered any one, or had them murdered. He never committed adultry. Hen never married othermens wives, as you and I would think of Normal Marrying. Those were called sealings. Whole families were sealed to the Prophet. And Joseph Smith Never put any other Gods above God the Father, Not even Jesus Christ himself. He kept the order of things right.
haidermann1 2 years ago
never put other Gods befor him there are NO other Gods befor or after and it is a FACT that he did thos things your just trying to cover it up by saying...o no that never happined but even his own wife told of his evil deeds
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Show the proof. And don't use journal of Discourses, it was handwritten by 12 different authors and often published with out the apostles consent.
The very Moment you stop believing the lies of satan, and his use and abuse of good Christians of other faiths, you will be free from his bonds.
Christ never had to slander and gossip and rumor to fulfill his mission. You shouldn't either if you truly are a peaceful follower of the savior.
There's nothing in common now than 150 yrs ago anyway
haidermann1 2 years ago
150 years ago and today is almost ALMOST the same really close matt 10 34-36 Jesus bashed other religions ALOT and talked about them ALOT and Mormons are NOT Christians
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Yea right. He could have bashed the Romans, he could have Bashed the Samaritans who were Hated and persecuted by the Jews. He never did. The only time he ever got "Huffy" was when the Pharisees and Jewish leadership tried to ensnare him, the way other sects do LDS. The only time Jesus Rages is when they defile his fathers temple.
He taught by Love and affection, forgiveness and Charity. Something the rest of these 'So Called Christians" could learn from the Savior.
Hypocrites they are.
haidermann1 2 years ago
as a Catholic we are taught to love every one no matter what,forgive people for every bad deed thay do agenst you and give what you can to the church its not charity if you have a set % say like the mormons having to pay 10% when did Jesus ever say you give 10%...the woman who gave a few cents gave more then any rich man had given but she was not set to a set amount she had to give so i guess mormons have some thing to learn from Christians
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Where is your love the? You have the audacity to tell, not ask others whether or not they are Christian, .
Num 18 for old test. 26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the Lord, even a tenth part of the tithe.
Mal. 8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
haidermann1 2 years ago
But It started back in Genesis.
22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be Gods house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
I think Christians understand this. But I think you need to try and understand the Bible better.
haidermann1 2 years ago
Abraham never tithed on his own personal property or livestock.Jacob wouldn't tithe until God blessed him first.Only Levite priests could collect tithes, and there are no Levite priests today.Only food products from the land were tithable.Money was never a titheable commodity.Christian converts were never asked to tithe anything to the Church...i love every man and woman of this earth every last one and if God gave theknowledge to know a false church so we shouldnt protect our brother from evil?
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
They tithed commodities and interest earned from monies.
If I were you, I'd take a couple college classes on Humanities, psychology, and social sciences. Because you don't show people you care about them by attacking their beliefs culture and heritage lol.
Or you could save your college tuition money and actually read the Bible and learn from Christthe Master himself on how to treat people right and let them know you care.
I'd try that first, but hey,.. thats just me.. a wacky cult member.
haidermann1 2 years ago
Deuteronomy 13 if was to go to the bible then i should kill the false prophet or anyone that trys to lead any one to other Gods but i love people to much to kill...so even if some one is in a false church i should sit back and let them go to hell? thats like telling a drugy that drugs are good for you its a lie you should help them to get off the drugs and show them the way so your church is false now that you heard the truth its up to you follow God or follow the devil its up to you
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
LOL. O man. Jesus came to fulfill the law of Moses, not despite it. Thats why he intervened with the harlot that was about to be stoned. Aside from the principals and ordinances of those early steps with the law of moses, christs church was the New way.
Even though the apostasy happened, and was restored through Joseph Smith in the latter days, there's a happy medium of love and discipline with the savior. Deutoronomy is done away with. Christ is the New way, 2000 years later even.
haidermann1 2 years ago
yep he is all ways the way..so should i just let people follow a false church and go to hell? if your church is the true church what makes it true? and why are you Christians ?
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Let me ask you this. You have a family member, who is getting into trouble with the wrong crowd. You see misery down the road for them. How do you address your concern for them?
Later they actually fall prey to drugs alcohol, sexual deviance, what do you say to them then?
Even if they go through their own personal Hell over their poor decisions, as a christian how should you speak to them?
haidermann1 2 years ago
well i have many many family members that are on the wrong or down the wrong road as we speak i talk to them as i all ways do with love but i would never tell them that were friends that are in and out of jail on drugs and beat people that were a good crowd of people to and with but i tell them thay were on the wrong path and that thay need to change there ways so all and all i only tell them the TRUTH.
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Right. you don't call them stupid evil or cult members? worshipers of satan? that those they care about are followers of satan?
haidermann1 2 years ago
i say what thay are doing is evil but you know man is evil if thay were in a cult or gang id bash the gang or cult and tell them how bad and weak it is of them and i do say if your not following God and his word then your a follower of satan but that God still loves them no matter what thay have done and i do everything i can to get them away from the gangs the drugs and everything that is hurting them or leading them on the path to hell
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Well I wrk with people in this capacity in R.L. And I'm telling you now from experience, if you Attack what they are attached to, use to, addicted to, you will create a spirit of contention, which is of the Devil. But if you do what christ did, and be kind and loving and supportive. Express an importance of a relationship with God & the Savior, they will see the fruit is good, and you wont need to state the Obvious.
haidermann1 2 years ago
im not going to dance around and tell them its ok to do what thay do and killing witch is also of the devil so should i dance around and be like o its ok your founders killed people and preached killing being good thats just dumb to think your church didnt do thos things its dumb and sens you know what happins to people when there addictions are attacked then thats cant happin to you rite?
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Who did Joseph smith or any of his constituants kill? Tell me? Joseph lost 5 children do to mobs. You hear about Mt. meadows massacre, but no one tells the story of the Haun mill massacre do they? Or that the saints Constitutional rights were completely stripped away, and it was even made legal to murder a Mormon in the Mid west.
There's not an ounce of evil associated with the LDS leadership. You've chosen to side with lies slander gossip and inuendo. The stuff Christ warned about.
haidermann1 2 years ago
your prophet Young had many many people killed (blood atonment) so what your prophet preached was miss understood then dont youthink he would try to clearit up insted of going along with it and killing people?
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
Thats right, the first catholic priest allowed the Evil Mormons to allow him the use of their tabernacle, and safe passage to the local indian tribes. And today the Catholics sit back and let the Evil Mormons get death threats over Prop 8. But thats ok, because persecution is a sign of a true church. If church members don't understand blood atonement, Non Church members sure wont. i can tell you this, it has nothing to do with Murder. Similarily its like what Abrahams sacrafice was about
haidermann1 2 years ago
Early anti-Mormon writers charged that under Brigham Young the Church practiced "blood Atonement," by which they meant Church-instigated violence directed at dissenters, enemies, and strangers. This claim distorted the whole idea of blood atonement which was based on voluntary submission by an offender—into a supposed justification of involuntary punishment
haidermann1 2 years ago
Brigham Young taught that in a complete theocracy the Lord could require the voluntary shedding of a murderer's blood presumably by capital punishment as part of the process of Atonement for such grievous sin. If you read the entire article in Mormon Doctrine you will find that he did agree that the concept was mentioned in some statements by leaders of the church when they were talking about it in regards to people of past dispensations who practiced it.
haidermann1 2 years ago
you know rite befor JS died he shot and killed people yeah what a martyr and we all know what blood atonment is the church is just trying to make excuses so people wont think there evil but hey the devil is the master of trickery
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
U would sit there, and let your brother and friends get murdered up by swine would ya? Not surprised by that actually. He was given the pistol by the guard, The dictionary describes martyrdom as "the suffering of death on account of adherence to a cause and especially to one's religious faith." This describes perfectly the circumstances surrounding the death of Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum.
I'd shed blood to save an innocent in a heart beat. & I demand the blood of murderers. Thats a law
haidermann1 2 years ago
LOL what an evil bastard.. he shot back at someone trying to kill he and his brother and friends. What kind of argument are you presenting? seriously.
haidermann1 2 years ago
1 he wasnt killed for his religion 2 jesus didnt fight back 3 peter didnt fight back 4 the prophets of jesus didnt demand blood for the killing of jesus 5 its a gift to be persecuted under Christianity 6 many of my saints have been killed for there religion and didnt fight back so why did JS
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
1 the hell he didn't. 2 Jesus wasn't supposed to fight back. 3 peter took a guys ear off with his sword 4 the apostles scattered when Jesus was killed 5 it's not a gift it's a test of faith 6 Many of your saints and priesthood officials have killed people and tortured people for not turning to catholicism, So you shouldn't be "chuckin rocks" when you live in a glass house.
haidermann1 2 years ago
He wasn't killed for his religion. lol what the crap man. News papers ran all over the country that Mormonism was dead, Joe Smith has been slain, and Mormonism no more.
How much more dieing for religion can you get!? C'mon gertrude.
haidermann1 2 years ago
he was killed for taking other mans wife as his own not for being a mormon
crowofdeath2 2 years ago 5
Man you are so terribly mis guided. They took pres. Smith to jail over & Over & over & over again & tried to kill him, even made killing mormons legal before Plurality was an issue.
In a way you're right tho actually.
He had to seal his testimony with his blood because he put off the law Sealings.
If the issues of adultery were true, emma would have came out a victim after it was all over, but instead of saving face, she told the truth, stood by the prophet even in death. Acknowledged the BOM
haidermann1 2 years ago
@crowofdeath2 how do you know ?
Dadutta 1 year ago
@crowofdeath2 do you mean "killed", or did you mean to say "tarred and feathered" ?
Dadutta 1 year ago
@Dadutta im talking about in prison not the time that they tryed to tar, feather and castrate him haha
crowofdeath2 1 year ago
@crowofdeath2 He should have been killed when he married his second wife...who was only 14!
redsectorak 9 months ago 3
@crowofdeath2 I just wish it happened before he came up with this bull crap that plagues us today (book of mormon).
wachnathan 9 months ago
@wachnathan Then we wouldn't have the smash hit, "Book Of Mormon" musical by the makers of SOUTH PARK. :-)
Shutterbug1000 3 months ago
@crowofdeath2 What you say of Joseph Smith here is not correct and not supported in any fact whatsoever. A fly by character assinasion it appears. What mans wife was this and where was he in the mob? Joseph was gunned down in cold blood as was his brother Hyram.
scottwins2 2 months ago
@scottwins2 In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith. is a great book on this and its not by an anti mormon. it is a biography of each of the wives, and shows how they often had to live a double life.
crowofdeath2 1 month ago
@crowofdeath2 You statement is not true nor supported by any first hand facts.
scottwins2 1 month ago
@scottwins2 Andrew Jenson, The Historical Record 6. Andrew was a church historian and that book was accepted by your prophets so there you go you church admits it. weighed, measured and absolutely found wanting.
crowofdeath2 4 weeks ago
As for Mormons, you're dealing with a belief in god. A Faith. The fact is none of us know whats going to Happen when we die. We hope and have faith that our work and efforts have not been for nothing.
You're catholic. I have been told by some members the roman catholic church is the abominable whore discussedin rev. DO I ever say that? no. I never mention Pope Benedict was a Hitler youth. I don't need to use Bad fruit to do the work for Christ. I focus solely on christ, no matter the religion.
haidermann1 2 years ago
say what you like about the catholics its just a church thats all i dont worship it or the pope or mary i only worship God and thats it. catholics dont like mormons soo much because your founders said are book is not enough you bashed us from the start and then out of no were mormons are like..o why are you persecuting us so much we have done nothing to anyone but then you turn around and say o there not the true church we are...
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
The fact is, when I use evil destructive tactics, regardless if I believe its for their good or not, I am acting Anti Christ not pro Christ. And I dunno why, but Catholics and Mormons should be getting a long better than theother religions, but there is a huge Hatred for Mormons right now by Catholics. Really it boils down to the two faiths,.. because all the other churches come from off shoots of catholicism.
I just don't understand the Hatred coming from supposed Catholics right now.
haidermann1 2 years ago
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If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved " (Romans 10:9, 10) you see the justified part see id didnt say you were justified by faith and works...by faith with works you are justified by man not God its by your heart you are justified
crowofdeath2 2 years ago
@haidermann1 He tears down lies, just as Joseph claimed to do. Joseph viciously attacked Catholics and Protestants, Shawn attacks Mormonism, Jesus attacked the Pharisees.
Dadutta 1 year ago
@Dadutta Please. Really? Provide me one quote from Joseph Smith, one credible quote where he viciously attacked Catholics and Protestants. Jesus Never attacked the Pharisees, or Saducees. He stood up to them and corrected them, and when they persisted to be aggressive he called them for what they were. But he never initiated a single attack. Nor did Joseph Smith. But your false Prophet McCrany does. Because of shame and Pride.
haidermann1 1 year ago
@haidermann1 He called all faiths abominations in his little self-biography.
Dadutta 1 year ago
@Dadutta Actually if you take a moment in your life to read the history of the first Vision, you will read that it was not Joseph saying the churches were an Abomination it was Christ himself, and secondly he was referring to those churches during the revival throughout the New york Area around him. He never named Catholics Calvanists,, Baptists, Lutherans or any of those denominations specifically when Christ told Joseph this..
haidermann1 1 year ago
@haidermann1 It says "ALL faiths", that includes HInduism, Baptism, Calvinism, all faiths.
MORON. Also, which of the 9 versions of the first vision would have me read again ???
Dadutta 1 year ago
@Dadutta How bout reading the ldsdotorg site itself? since the church sanctions what it puts on there
History of the Church, Volume 1, Chapters 1 : 5
18My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join.
19I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight;
i don't see 'all faiths" listed there likeUclaim.
haidermann1 1 year ago
@haidermann1 "for they were ALL WRONG" -
19I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;
CAN'T YOU EVEN READ
typical illiterate moron
Dadutta 11 months ago
@Dadutta Yea you stupid Ass. "They" meaning the sects during the rivival of upstate New York. He never mentioned any but them. Why don't you take your own advice and keep it in context Jack hole.
haidermann1 11 months ago
@haidermann1 if all faiths are wrong, then that includes all faiths. accoridng to mormonism, all faiths are wrong, and that includes calvinism, judaism, buddhism, islam, everythign, whether they are named or not, you stupid oaf
Dadutta 11 months ago
@haidermann1 You follow a false prophet
Dadutta 1 year ago
SECRET PART !!!!
Why do mormons use the term ANTImormons when the correct term is ANTI-MORMONISM...and what should we call mormons...ANTI-BIBLE???
theTruthNotLies 2 years ago
You should attend an LDS church service some time and see how many people carry Bibles to church with them.
haidermann1 2 years ago
Done that for many years...Why do I need another GOSPEL when I have the bible? No thanks
theTruthNotLies 2 years ago
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my awords; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
Who are we to Shut Gods Mouth? To tell him he need not speak any more. A fools thought.
If you think thatthe Bible we have today is ALL of Gods word, you're a fool. The catholic Church itself has Thousands of Records left out by King James. They use them still. Where's the outcry to them, like the LDS?
Don't be a fool.
haidermann1 2 years ago
Who si the FOOL here?? You believe in Joseph smith, a con artist, a false prophet, a lier, a child molester (One of his 34 wives was only 14)..who is the fool??
theTruthNotLies 2 years ago
Prove all that. take your Hearsay to a court of Law and see how well hear say holds up in Court.
You are like the Pharisees that murdered the Savior. They had no proof, no reason no case. YOU are sounding more andmore Anti Christ the more you type.
If Christ appeared today, you would deny him, based on what you reveal to me now.
haidermann1 2 years ago
Im not the one denying Christ...you are the mormon here...
theTruthNotLies 2 years ago
Hypersexuality is a common reaction to extreme trauma. A need to recreate the traumatic event ritually is also common. Either by reliving the trauma or to create a similar level of danger.
This author is speaking from Freudian mysticism. This Oedipus complex stuff is bs. No one believes in Freud anymore. Jungian psychology might be more edifying in understanding Smith.
VictorLepanto 2 years ago
post traumatic stress disorder.
sldeyo 2 years ago 2
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Wow, Joseph Smith's visions and knowledge of other civilizations and people sounds like
ISAIAH
I am sure the ANTI-god people think he was crazy too!
omiolo 2 years ago
Vision but not knowledge. His "civilizations" never existed. All the product of a deranged mind.
carcabe 2 years ago 6
I don't see how the mormon men who have alot of wives can keep up with this lifestyle. I was taught he was a martyr. Now I know the truth. Thanks for info.
ddiiaa52 2 years ago 7