Morris's nitipicking here is absurd. Okay, just after the Holocaust, the Zionists are testing out using gases against their enemies? Haganah already had a "science" division? In Feb of '48 - well before any hostilities were launched by Arab nations against them? Within months of the formation of Israel? Jeez, I thought they were little lambs in the desert, set upon by Arab wolves...
Rami Tal interviewed Morris for the newspaper Yediot Ahronot in December 1994.
Morris: As one who received his education in Israel, I thought I knew that the Arabs had ‘run away.’ But I knew nothing else.
The Jewish generations of 1948, however, knew the truth and deliberately misrepresented it. They knew there were plenty of mass deportations, massacres and rapes…The soldiers and the officials knew, but they suppressed what they knew and were deliberately disseminating lies.”
“Israelis like to tell the world, that they are running an ‘enlightened’ or ‘benign’ occupation, qualitatively different from other military occupations the world has seen. The truth was radically different. Like all occupations, Israel’s was founded on brute force, repression and fear, collaboration and treachery, beatings and torture chambers, and daily intimidation, humiliation and manipulation.” Israeli historian, Benny Morris, “Righteous Victims.”
At least ILAN PAPP|E draws attention to the fact that Israel was experimenting with biological weapons as long ago as 1948. I don’t think Morris would now do such a thing (he is now a loyal Zionist rather than a truth seeker).
@TheUria24 ILAN PAPP|E seems to be of the opinion that Morris gives insufficient weight to the testimony of Palestinian survivors of the1947/8 expulsions, and that he has a pro-Israel bias which tends to deter him from exploring evidence which may incriminate Israel.
c. Both argue that thare was flight of Arabs from Israel for several reasons if correct or not"
Dealing with "c" first: yes there is not one simple all Palestinians left/where forced to leave in the same way explanation, and I would agree it's certainly not a case of everything Morris says is wrong and everything Pappe says is right (they agree in many arias).
@Prunesqualer Actually I'm not sure how they got the Jews in Israel I think they just did not take part in acts of fights that caused certain expulsion But I'm sure there were some who understood Always has two sides Now about Jews protecting the Arabs I can tell you confidently that it was even Arabs in Israel acknowledge that faradies Nazareth alot of Arab villages protected by Jews villages and towns not Individuals
@TheUria24 The sheer scale of expulsion of Arabs achieved in 1947/8 was remarkable given the logistic/political pressures of the time. Probably a complete expulsion was not on the cards.. I can appreciate that such a consummate ethnic cleansing may in the medium term – had it been achievable - have offered a form of stability, yes..
Without hurting you because you're only looking from the side
I also think this debate
If Israel systematically expelled or not is dismissive of the Israeli intelligence
Israelis may have no manners
But surely not stupid
Israel could expel them easily blame the Arab countries expelled the Jews and tell the Palestinians collaborated with enemies and took part in pogroms wich did hapend With a number of Arab communities
@TheUria24 In my opinion there seems to be little doubt that tribalism/pack instinct, plays a very important part in evolutionary strategy. Both Islam and Zionism plug into that evolutionary legacy.
@TheUria24 Right, so that gave them the right to ethnically cleanse 650,000 people from their U.N. awarded territory? Your moral calculations don't even pass the sniff test.
No ... Hebron massacre cases like the '48 war and liars like you After all, Israel deported only 200 thousand 400 thousand others fled because of the like you at this time And besides 20% of Israeli society still remained very different cultural Druze Arabs and more ...
@TheUria24 Your argument "b" I don't quite understand, could you try to explain more fully (I realise English isn't your first language, you're mostly doing a good job with it though).
Argument "A": I think you will find that a large proportion of Arabs who where allowed to stay where members of minority groups who either sided with the Zionists eg Druze or Christians (it would have embarrassed international supporters to expel too many of them).
If you pick one example of a mis-quote or distortion, wouldn't you pick one that actually undermines the thesis of Pappe's book?
MannequinnRepublick 3 days ago
search benny morris and norman finkelstein, he gets exposed there for the liar he is.
FoolishOrc 4 weeks ago
Morris's nitipicking here is absurd. Okay, just after the Holocaust, the Zionists are testing out using gases against their enemies? Haganah already had a "science" division? In Feb of '48 - well before any hostilities were launched by Arab nations against them? Within months of the formation of Israel? Jeez, I thought they were little lambs in the desert, set upon by Arab wolves...
glennd7962 2 months ago 2
@IRightYouWrong
why do that if even israelis cannot dispute it? the only thing he has against pappe is that he mistranslated "temporarely blinded" to just "blinded.
pathetic.
ahmed337799 6 months ago 6
@ahmed337799 No, that was an EXAMPLE. Search for "The Liar as Hero" by Benny Morris to see what else he has to say about Pappe.
CaledoniaProductions 3 months ago
And this:
Rami Tal interviewed Morris for the newspaper Yediot Ahronot in December 1994.
Morris: As one who received his education in Israel, I thought I knew that the Arabs had ‘run away.’ But I knew nothing else.
The Jewish generations of 1948, however, knew the truth and deliberately misrepresented it. They knew there were plenty of mass deportations, massacres and rapes…The soldiers and the officials knew, but they suppressed what they knew and were deliberately disseminating lies.”
dino52047 8 months ago
Benny Morris also said this:
“Israelis like to tell the world, that they are running an ‘enlightened’ or ‘benign’ occupation, qualitatively different from other military occupations the world has seen. The truth was radically different. Like all occupations, Israel’s was founded on brute force, repression and fear, collaboration and treachery, beatings and torture chambers, and daily intimidation, humiliation and manipulation.” Israeli historian, Benny Morris, “Righteous Victims.”
dino52047 8 months ago
Israel is a fascist, apartheid state.
MegaChairmanMao 1 year ago
is that nonsense the bets that Benny morris could come up with? - geeze
GregPotemkin 1 year ago
what a liar and brainwasher: of course there was a master-plan !
omarkhayyam9 1 year ago
At least ILAN PAPP|E draws attention to the fact that Israel was experimenting with biological weapons as long ago as 1948. I don’t think Morris would now do such a thing (he is now a loyal Zionist rather than a truth seeker).
Prunesqualer 1 year ago
@Prunesqualer
why would he tolk about samething never bean prove
thare only suspicion
Israel never acknowledged the act and there is no physical evidence but baseless accusations
his a historian, he relies on facts not baseless accusations
And the truth is that he also brings support for a Palestinian state
That's what's good about him that he has a personal opinion does not bother him to talk about the Jews acts
But compared to other He also talks about Palestinian actions
TheUria24 1 year ago
That is called not one-sided
and unlike athares he those not Eliminates the opinion of someone because of his origin and opinion
TheUria24 1 year ago
@TheUria24 ILAN PAPP|E seems to be of the opinion that Morris gives insufficient weight to the testimony of Palestinian survivors of the1947/8 expulsions, and that he has a pro-Israel bias which tends to deter him from exploring evidence which may incriminate Israel.
Prunesqualer 1 year ago
@Prunesqualer
ilan pro Palestinian so why do you listen to him
When it became a crime to be pro something
Well at least he did give weight to the Palestinians
Number of people and Palestinian claim that all Arabs were expelled from Israel
The problem of the systematic expulsion argue is
A. There are still 20% Arabs in Israel
b. Jews protected few Arab communities
c. Both argue that thare was flight of Arabs from Israel for several reasons if correct or not
TheUria24 1 year ago
"The problem of the systematic expulsion argue is
A. There are still 20% Arabs in Israel
b. Jews protected few Arab communities
c. Both argue that thare was flight of Arabs from Israel for several reasons if correct or not"
Dealing with "c" first: yes there is not one simple all Palestinians left/where forced to leave in the same way explanation, and I would agree it's certainly not a case of everything Morris says is wrong and everything Pappe says is right (they agree in many arias).
Cont
Prunesqualer 1 year ago
TheUria24 1 year ago
@TheUria24 I really don't understand a lot of what you are saying for instance:
"Now about Jews protecting the Arabs
I can tell you confidently that it was even Arabs in Israel acknowledge that
faradies"
I realise there where some jews who to a greater or lesser extent defended Arabs during 1947/8
is that what you are talking about?
Prunesqualer 1 year ago
@Prunesqualer
Well I have nothing to add
I kind of agree with you
If you want to ask more than please
The truth I enjoy talking to you
TheUria24 1 year ago
I'm not sure if thare was a complete expulsion of the Arabs it would create more problems than today
Iraq, Jordan, Syria and Egypt did a complete expulsion of the Jews and no one remembers it to them
There are about a million Jewish refugees from Arab states
Jews also fled from Gaza and the West Bank during Israel's Independence war to israel
TheUria24 1 year ago
@TheUria24 The sheer scale of expulsion of Arabs achieved in 1947/8 was remarkable given the logistic/political pressures of the time. Probably a complete expulsion was not on the cards.. I can appreciate that such a consummate ethnic cleansing may in the medium term – had it been achievable - have offered a form of stability, yes..
Prunesqualer 1 year ago
Without hurting you because you're only looking from the side
I also think this debate
If Israel systematically expelled or not is dismissive of the Israeli intelligence
Israelis may have no manners
But surely not stupid
Israel could expel them easily blame the Arab countries expelled the Jews and tell the Palestinians collaborated with enemies and took part in pogroms wich did hapend With a number of Arab communities
TheUria24 1 year ago
@TheUria24 “If Israel systematically expelled or not is dismissive of the Israeli intelligence
Israelis may have no manners
But surely not stupid”
Tribalism/Manners/Intelligence/War
Interesting subjects we all live through.
Prunesqualer 1 year ago
@Prunesqualer
Except maybe I would want you to take into account that thare was war and fear among the Jews
I believe that thare was actions by Jews without justice
But not only the Jews are guilty
I believe the solution is not to blame one side but to try to resolve conflict
TheUria24 1 year ago
@TheUria24 In my opinion there seems to be little doubt that tribalism/pack instinct, plays a very important part in evolutionary strategy. Both Islam and Zionism plug into that evolutionary legacy.
All the best
Prunesqualer 1 year ago
@Prunesqualer
tru but yat very Different
The people of Israel are not built on race but on several factors
Muslims often claim that this land of the Arabs or Islam because it was once
By the way Spain is also by muslims the fact every country that ever ruled the by Muslims is
jews will always be minorities
So Israel was established to provide security and type of position of the Jews
You can say what you want Zionism established couse people gat sick being the world's punching bag
TheUria24 1 year ago
@TheUria24 Right, so that gave them the right to ethnically cleanse 650,000 people from their U.N. awarded territory? Your moral calculations don't even pass the sniff test.
glennd7962 2 months ago
@glennd7962
No ... Hebron massacre cases like the '48 war and liars like you After all, Israel deported only 200 thousand 400 thousand others fled because of the like you at this time And besides 20% of Israeli society still remained very different cultural Druze Arabs and more ...
TheUria24 2 months ago
@glennd7962
And the Jews did not receive any land from the United Nations
Lol Read the statement is a recognition rather than establishment In other words Israel was
TheUria24 2 months ago
@glennd7962 NOT AWARDED. ARABS DID NOT SIGN UP ON IT
sarahgittel 2 months ago
@TheUria24 Your argument "b" I don't quite understand, could you try to explain more fully (I realise English isn't your first language, you're mostly doing a good job with it though).
Argument "A": I think you will find that a large proportion of Arabs who where allowed to stay where members of minority groups who either sided with the Zionists eg Druze or Christians (it would have embarrassed international supporters to expel too many of them).
Prunesqualer 1 year ago