I got to fly in this very aircraft a couple years ago when it visited Fresno. It was an immaculately well-kept airplane; it looked brand-new. I was very saddened to hear of its loss, but am happy that everyone got out unhurt.
By the way, 2 all Fortress-haters: during bombings of Britain 40000 persons have been killed, but German bombers Ju-87 and He-111 displayed at Hendon RAF Museum (last fully operational Tiger tank is in Britain too, heh).
I heard that such kind of fire is most dangerous to Fortresses. But here the citation from Liberty Foundation site: The crew actually unloaded bags, then had the horrible task of watching the aircraft slowly burn while waiting for the fire trucks to arrive. “Horrible task of watching” instead of attempt to use two handy extinguishers, that's what i meant. And yes, I wouldn't name it “good job”. They have successfully saved own lives but after that haven't tried to rescue Belle.
Guys, explain me one thing, please. B-17 has fire extinguishers and fire-prevention partitions. Seven persons onboard. What they there did, simply admired fire?
They emptied the fire suppression system from the engine nacelle, but the fire was a fuel fire further back in inside the wing near the fuel pumps. Once the fire got to the fuel tanks it grew rapidly. They did a good job getting in back on the ground, but the fire service could not access the aircraft quickly.
@390bullitt1968 I'm sorry for your family and friends but if it wasn't for the bomber a monster of a man would have ruined the world those bombers saved many live. And the innocent people kill should be honored
These remind me of the bombers that bombed my hometown in Germany, Dresden. The entire city was swept up in a fireball that melted humans. It was the true Holocaust. I lost countless relatives and friends. These planes should be pushed off a carrier into the ocean and forgotten. They never brought anyone freedom, just pain, misery and suffering on both sides of the pond.
A great loss , such a sad end to a fantastic plane , just a pity it didnt blow up more of the german bastards in the war ! these war birds need to be looked after AND flown ! sod the idiots with the thick remarks ! think there grandparents were blown up by one of these lol....
not all ww2 airplanes can be restored to flying shape, but most can be patched together to make static displays in museums. go to the USAF museum in Dayton Ohio they have plenty of cool stuff so chill out
and you @MMDDYY1000 nobody likes a troll and your full of crap and love to spout it out because you don't know anything. they don't make em like they used to
@MrCriticOfAll They sucked is what they are, nothing but assholes braggarts that drench themselves with Libertarian crypto fascist, t-party propaganda!
I got to ride in this bird once. It was a blast. I talked to one of its pilots recently and the engines were salvageable. They are planning on using them for another B-17 airframe they have in the works.
The risk of flying any aircraft new or old is fire. Fortunately no one was killed. It may be time to start turning most of these flying B17s into static displays though, I hate to say it but it may be time.
@4shacks1house I bet a quite a few B-17 owners wouldn't call it a complete and total loss. I'm sure there are many valuable hard to find features to salvage. The extremely rare engines for instance. Parts of this plane will live on through others at least.
@TheDeJureTour which warbirds are more crashed or somehow damaged? ww2 ones? i dont know how many are still flyable of any kind of ww2 planes but its nice to know theyre still some in the sky.they should rebuilt lots of them for massive recreation dogfights at airshows haha
The firemen made the right decision. If their equipment became stuck in the mud, they would not be able to answer any life-saving emergency calls. With the right amount of money, the plane could be rebuilt.
The final decision on the wreck has not been made. This B-17 (S/N 44-85734) was rebuilt with new-made parts and combined with parts from S/N 44-85813 to make a flying example. It is possible that remaining parts will be combined again. I have to point this out to you since you don't seem to be smart enough to figure this out for yourself.
Since you appear to lack the intellectual capacity beyond that of a 12-year-old then I will put things in terms that will be easy for you to understand and take this moment to remind you that your "wad" does in fact belong to your mom.
@FiveCentsPlease Most fire departments can still answer calls with one truck dedicated to a call, and even if not, there is mutual aid. This plane is scrap, yes parts can be salvaged, but the plane is a loss. If I was on the Fire Department called to this, I would personally drag every piece of hose I had out to that plane. I dont guess the FD realized the significance of the aircraft. Hopefully they atleast tried to get to it. ( I dont know the whole story, so I am not going to be critical.)
It was not a combat-veteran aircraft. Three combat B-17s wore the name Liberty Belle(s) and two surviving B-17s were given the same name. The crashed B-17 about never saw combat and was sold as scrap, eventually purchased by Pratt and Whitney and used as a turbine engine test platform. (Look for famous photo of a B-17 with an engine in the nose.) P&W donated it to a museum and later it was damaged by a tornado. It was newly rebuilt before this accident.
@FiveCentsPlease Thank you.....but yesterday i read,she was a a ww2 survivor,over 60 mission.She survived the war,a tornado,but not the (maybe) mechanical failure,and crashed.....but fortunately no one was hurt.(i think she is so funny with an extra engine)....
Several B-17s have carried the name Liberty Bell and some info is probably confusing. The one in the video above was not a combat veteran aircraft. The SN is 44-85734 and you can research the history for the airframe.
@FiveCentsPlease Thank you,i did it,,,,,It appears to me,there is a combat Belle,which salvaged on 18,February,1945,because of her several war injuries....AND an other,the 44-85734,the tornado-survivor,which crashed now.But what was hapenning whit the original?What it means salvaged?They scraped it before the end of war?So many questions........
There appear to be at least 5 B-17s which were named Liberty Bell. The serial numbers are 42-30096 and 42-30039 both lost in combat, 42-31610 and 42-97849, and one unknown serial number. Most likely they were all either lost in combat or scrapped.
I was a passenger on this aircraft on its tour at Chesapeke VA. in 2009(?) Thank goodness no one was hurt but very sad to see one less example of this great aircraft gone, now only about 12 or 11 still flying! but one of those "Chuckie" is her name is now at MAM flying museum in Virginia Beach VA. Hopefully new restored B-17s will fly someday soon!
This B-17 gave me the second most thrilling aviation experience in my life.
She was here in northern Massachusetts flying on July 10th 2010 when I heard it and rushed to a hill with a ballfield. She was at about 2500ft and 3 miles south. I took my shirt off and frantically waved it above my head. She disappeared over the tree line but I could hear it turning out of view. About 30 seconds later the pilot brought her straight and level right over my head at what looked to me like 700ft! Amazing!
ummm... haha let me think... yes you are lying and that is good for you my friend keep up the good work bullshitting everyone with your youtube heroism. yaaaaay.
Cause not yet determined, but originated near a fuel pump that was being worked on earlier. Engine fire extinguishers activated, but the fire wasn't in the engine, it was further back in the wing near the fuel pump. The plane landed intact, but the fire took hold and reached the fuel tanks and it was too late.
@FiveCentsPlease Thanks $.05 Did they firstesthe pump? Wonder if something had not been tightened enough. Those working on the pump must feel horrible. What ignited the fuel?
Work was being performed on a leaky fuel pump that weekend, although I don't know if this has been determined to be the cause of the fire. It's better to wait for the NTSB report. Fire was reported below the wing near the fuel pump by a chase plane before the emergency landing.
noooooooo, what a loss! it was a beautiful plane with a terrible history, one of the last survivors and now it crashed..... 4 pieces,.. this can't be fixed. i love the b17 but this is one of the problems that can appear if you fly one of these. they are old and have a terrible history, in any fight it will stand tall, but this one lost it after around 70 years... too bad.
I just learned of the loss of this beautifully restored aircraft. As a freelance photo/video journalist I shot her in 2008 during a stop in PA. I felt a connection to her and am deeply saddened to learn her recent fate. She was a teaching tool and a memorial to our WW2 veterans. Going off mission as she now has...well...it's simply tragic.
Leider ist das mit sehr alten maschinen passiert. Treibstoff leckagen oder kurzschlüsse auftreten können aufgrund von verschleiß und ermüdung des materials. Ich denke, dass die eigentümer sollten prüfen und zu pflegen besser diese sehr alte schiffe, die zu seiner zeit gab alles für die freiheit. Ein großer verlust für die luftfahrt und seine anhänger ...
This old girl did just what so many B-17s did in WW2-got her crew back safely. A testament to these wonderful planes. I flew in the B-17 Aluminum Overcast last year, and it was one of the best experiences ever. Gives you a whole new appreciation for what these brave men did for our freedom. Nearly 5000 planes and 48000 men were lost. God Bless them all.
The wreckage of the liberty belle is only about a mile from my house. i have many pictures of the remains and will be posting them soon. there is actually many still usable parts from the remains. the engines and props and tail gunner posistion and much more are in a secured location which i was fortunate enough to see and photograph. Most of the fuselage is gone but the nose is still there along with the wings and landing gears, along with a remarkably good condition tail section and rudder
i saw this beutiful b17 when it came to hartford ct in the summer of 2009 and it was so beutiful and it flew over my house because i lived in middletown and my dad said that one of the bulidings in our town has a becon that drect airtraffic. when i heard the engin rar it was just like in the movies. it sounded so beutiful.
I was lucky to fly in this wonderful airplane twice. I am terribly sad to learn of this crash and there are no words that can express to the owner, the crew and many that made this great plane fly again. I will never forget the thrill of flying in her and I encourage everyone to support these great organizations that keep these great planes flying.
low capacity fire control, destruction of an Icon from the past. Video of the plane burning in a field wheels down returns volumes of U.S.A.___ Past, Present, an Future.On another aspect. A full scale image, created even in movie prop tradition and enclosed under a huge clear dome on a now defunct/restored Midwest farm would make a fitting National monument/museum for all to reflect on in their own personal way, or would someones feelings be stepped on and we shouldn't see an image as that?
Thank God everyone got out okay. Shame to see a classic aircraft come to an end like this. Hopefully someday, someone will restore another of the few B-17's remaining to flying status (doubtful, but one can dream can't they)? Remember the P-38 "Glacier Girl"?
I flew on board this aircraft a few years ago. It was an incredible experience ... AWESOME.
But folks, it didn't "crash" at all. It landed safely and the crew was able to not only get out, but then unload the aircraft because the fire was only in the wing at that point. Fire trucks responding to the scene could not drive out onto the field because it was too soft from recent rains. The crew could do nothing more than watch while the fire slowly spread until it hit the fuel tank.
it crashed in oswego (where i live) i saw it fly over and later i saw thick black smoke out west. oh and anyone who says i don't live there, look up on google earth, oswego is the town where it crashed. (outskirts of the town)
How Ironic- The B-17 was very well known for returning its crew back to earth safely no matter what combat damage it had suffered! Thats why it is a LEGEND. Read "The Mighty Eighth" by Roger Freeman. It is the most accurate and complete history of the 8th Air Force. From its inception in Europe all the way through the Berlin airlift. Its the story of this magnificent airplane.
@crapper1 In essence. You hit the nail on the head. What some probably don't know, is that Mike Kellner, who is working on the "Desert Rat" B17E restoration, has manufactured plenty of airframe pieces. More than what they need. It has also been said that a reproduction wing spar is going to be available, which was the biggest hurdle.
@Divedevil85 I agree with the fact that what was left, meaning useful parts, will be salvaged from the wreckage. However, the parts from the Liberty Belle will not be used for another restoration. They will be used to restore the Liberty Belle. The Warbird Squadron 4 had a conference the other day, and stated that the intention was to return her to flight status.
For all of you curious as to what will happen with the Liberty Belle now, rest assured that the Liberty Foundation has openly stated that they intend to completely rebuild her to her former glory. It may not be soon, but expect to see this plane fly again. Don't believe me? Check their website. The best thing we all can do, is donate.
@airborne50804 A second B-17 was already being restored using various parts from different crash sites. Although some of the few salvageable parts of "Liberty Belle" will be used.....the plane itself was destroyed beyond repair.
The Liberty Foundation has made no such statement regarding rebuilding the aircraft. Fower's comments do not state this on the website. More often than not, the fate of the aircraft will be determined by the insurance provider (who may sell the remains) and the outcome of the accident investigation. I would like to see it rebuilt, but those plans are have not been stated as of yet.
Very sad, and a great lose. At least the four engines survived. If their is another one sitting at Davies mountain, perhaps they could be used to rebuild another B-17.
@GunBroker100 Wow...you are a real insider. First it's Davis Monthan AFB. Second...they don't keep spare B-17's parked and waiting for engines. These planes are usually restored from remnants of crashed airframes recovered from lakes, swamps, under glaciers and other remorte and inaccessible places.
The effort requires millions of dollars, years of recovery, salvage and restoration by individuals dedicated to their preservation. Maybe you should join "the real world" instead of fantasyland.
@divedevil985 You assume much, like you accuse others of doing. How's this, My father built the P&W 2800's currently in use on the "Connie". the only flying Constellation. I know the 17 probably as well as you. My father flew them and 29's in WWII. We own a P-51 D, and are currently working on another era plane. By the way Purchased at Davies Mountain in 1975. Resto's take years and millions on a 17, Noooooo, YA Think? Ever been to the Bone yard? Amazing what IS there, you should go sometime.
@GunBroker100 Uhhhh, I really don't have a dog in this fight but 'Connie's were all powered by CW-3350's. The later ones, like DC-7's had turbocompund engines. There are at least six flying today. And God bless your father,building R-2800's or anything related to piston engine airplanes would be the job of my dreams. Breitling,Save a Connie, and the Dutch have flying Connie's to name a few.
That is what I thought too....but I didn't want to agitate him further. What about the one that limped into Fantasy of Flight a few years ago....is that one of the six or does it count since it's grounded now?
@divedevil985 The one at Fantasy of Flight is the rarest of all, a 1649 Dreamliner, the last and fastest of the Connies. I don't know if she limped in to FoF, I read it was a ferry flight from Orlando. She is being fully restored for the airshow circuit, if I wasn't so old and decrepid I would pop a woodie just thinking about it. My numbers are just a guesstimate, there may be more, with more on the way. I went onboard the DC-7b at sun&fun, what a beauty, almost made my eyes leak.
@klesmer Wright and P&W duplex radials are virtually the same engine and are interchangeable on most of the air frames it was used on. The mounting system is the same, they are both 18 cylinders and relatively alike in power. It was not uncommon to find both engines on field repaired bombers after the war. They may have left the factory with a matching set, but, that could change quickly. Wright's are getting real hard to find. P&W seem to be more common.
@GunBroker100 Where is your documentation on this? I don't ever recall seeing a B-29, DC-7 or Connie being retrofitted with an R-2800. I have been a student of these airplanes and engines for over 50yrs and except for cases like Rare Bear and some of the other racers, have never heard of swapping a 3350 out for an R2800. They had a hell of a task just getting later model 3350's to fit FI-FI. Just like to know your source-would be interesting reading.
@klesmer Mostly from my dad and his Confederate air force buds. They were all there, crew chiefs, pilots, A&P mechanics, you know, been there, done that? There were post war experiments with a, I think it was a Wright, 36 cylinder super charged engine set on the 29's. The 2 front banks air cooled and back 2 liquid cooled. There were great many variations of engines during this time. I was born in 46, growing up around air bases. Dad was 8th AAF. He flew about everything in the inventory.
@GunBroker100 We have similar history's, I was born in '47, grew up in the military. Dad was in the mighty 8th, flew 27 missions in B-17's. I was 18 before we ever lived off base. If anyone could mix and match and make things work it is our guys and gals on the flight line. I know they were doing some really wierd stuff at the end war, Pratt had something similar to the Napier Sabre. I would love to get more info on the 36cylCW,that had to be somthing else to behold. Long live the Republic.
@klesmer Small world. They were called Quad Cyclones, swung a 18 Ft, 4 blade variable prop and I'll have to check Dads books, but I think they developed 3650 HP @ 1800rpm. They looked pretty much like the 18 just twice the cylinder banks. Then there was the Allison X engine, 24 cylinder opposed double V. They had problems keeping oil out of the lower bank of cyls, so it didn't last long. A lot of power, But, problematic. Really cool stuff went on during and after the war. The double Mustang man
@GunBroker100 Outstanding! Makes sense, a bigger,better 4360 without the rear cyllinder cooling issue's. It would have been interesting to see if it would have had the same developmental problems the 3350 had. After 43yrs as a heavy line mechanic I had to retire with dissabiltiy issues. Except for the reloading bench and trips to the shooting range I haven't been doing much of anything. Time to get of my ass and head for the book stores and library. Thanks for relighting the fire.
@klesmer Hey, don't knock the whole reloading bench and range thing, I do a lot of that myself. About everything between a .22 hornet and .50 BMG. I have been a custom rifle and pistol smith / collector for many years, so shooting is one of my favorite things. I'll be taking my Dad's P-51 around the fly in circuit this year. Kinda left that up to my brother the last several years. But, I think it's time I took "Mary E." up again. And I'm back to work on another plane he started before he passed
@klesmer I found something you will be interested in. Type in Pratt & Whitney R-4360. It's their quad bank radial. 28 Cyl, 3000 Hp. Yup, four banks of 7. I think it is completely liquid cooled. Anyway, thought you might be interested. Also looked through some of the old books, The 36 Cyl Wright was designated CW-6750. and Peak HP of 6450 was obtained on 116 octane or higher fuel w/ super charges & DFI. The engine was not produced as Jet tech became the priority. There are four known examples.
The R-4360 is not liquid cooled. Wright Aeronautical's experiments in hyper piston engines focused on the R-2160 Toronado, 42 cylinders and liquid-cooled. No example ever flew. A 36 cylinder, liquid-cooled prototype was offered by Lycoming as the XR-7755 as a contender for the new B-36, but the contract was given to Pratt & Whitney for the R-4360.
Swapping engine types is not as simple as removing a few bolts and hoses and your statement on this is highly suspect. There are a myriad of sub-systems, plumbing and oil piping, and control systems and linkages the are NOT the same for different engines and this would be no small undertaking as a field hack job. One of the problems for getting B-29 FIFI back in the air was getting reliable 3350s custom built. If an R-2800 swap was that easy it would have been done long ago.
@FiveCentsPlease Look, I NO reason to suspect my Father and his AAF friends were lying. NONE. Unlike you, they actually flew these planes into combat and kept them flying when they returned all shot to hell. You, most likely, weren't even born yet. Why don't you check the productions records, they installed as many P&W's as they did Wrights. If it was so different, why would they do it? So using Wright CW3350's was likely what the planes build sheet called for. In the mean time, Suspect this.
No, you've made a dubious claim that the R-2800 and R-3350 are virtually identical and interchangeable, which they are not. Similar basic configuration, yes. The R-2800 guzzled more fuel than the R-3350 with different power settings, not a trait for long-distance, multi-engine heavy haul in wartime. Not on the B-17 or the B-24 either. I didn't call anyone a liar, but reading your other comments suggests you are a little fuzzy on facts (and short on manners too, it seems.)
@GunBroker100 There is no such boneyard as "Davies Mountain" that is a state park in Texas. Davis Monthan is the Air Force Boneyard you might be thinking of. I am not debating your father....I am debating you so his knowledge is irrelevant.
You sought me out and personally attacked me because you didn't like my opinion.
You are right I shouldn't have descended to your level by reciprocating your personal attack and stayed on message.
@GunBroker100 Just reading and seeing the sad tale of the loss of a rare b-17 i saw your post regarding the connie I asume by yyour post you father must have helped with this one Lockheed super constellation "Connie" VH-EAG
@mav362000 The engines my dad built was at least, upon reflection, 15-20 years ago now. That one was hangered in K.C at Wheeler, at the time. I don't recall it's numbers or it's registration, sorry. But then, I kinda got out of the game after Dad passed. I suppose there could be several flying now, at least that's what I've been told. These old planes are really something. Be they bombers,fighters,or liners. They have a look, sound and silhouette that modern planes simply can't match.
@divedevil985 Oh and by the way, I suppose you NEVER make a typo? Wings and Halo, too? It's condescending bastards like you that take the fun out of most things. Clearly you are the foremost authority on everything to do with aviation. I'm sure you have 7,000,000 hours on all known aircraft types, military, G.A. and Commercial. I hear your like every year at the fly ins. I know this, I flew that and 90% of the time they have a sport pilot license or none at all. Fuck you VERY much!
@GunBroker100 You attacked me. If you can't take it when someone responds to a personal attack then don't dish it out. You went down the road of "dumbo" and name calling. I never resorted to such nonsense....just called you out on your mistakes.
It is sad that you aren't mature enough to consider the vailidity of alternative opinions.
@GunBroker100 there is adifference between making a typo and not knowing the difference between similarly spelled words. Like "to" and "too". A typo occurs once.....you repeatedly made this mistake throughout your posts.
Your Dad is a nice guy...I admire him. Too bad you are a spoiled brat that likes to attack people then can't man up when you get called out. Next time we meet I'll see if you have the courage to say to my face what you get away with hiding behind a computer.
It would be a great thing if all parties could come together and with outside support build a clear dome over this site leave it undisturbed except for hazards.. and it be declared a monument to The United States of America. Think about it. and pass it along.
@bill399ful The plane was on fire prior to the crash landing. Yes, they had extinguishers on board. Apparently, this was one of those situations when fire suppression failed to put out the fire. These aren't like modern aircraft, and with their age come many unforeseen problems. Here's a clue, any one of the crew members on this bird, has forgotten more about aviation than you will ever know. This ain't a flight seem sport, It's a complex multi-engine former military bomber and a great lose.
@GunBroker100 First....can you please stop using "lose" in place of "loss"? I believe you meant to say this isn't a "light sport" aircraft.
I continue to make the argument it shouldn't have flown until the fuel issues were resolved; additionally they should have returned to the airport at the first sign of smoke instead "of trying to figure out where it was coming from". By the time the chase plane told them they were on fire they could have returned to the airport were fireteams are waiting.
I got to fly in this very aircraft a couple years ago when it visited Fresno. It was an immaculately well-kept airplane; it looked brand-new. I was very saddened to hear of its loss, but am happy that everyone got out unhurt.
Treetop64 1 day ago
By the way, 2 all Fortress-haters: during bombings of Britain 40000 persons have been killed, but German bombers Ju-87 and He-111 displayed at Hendon RAF Museum (last fully operational Tiger tank is in Britain too, heh).
MongooseXXL 3 days ago
I heard that such kind of fire is most dangerous to Fortresses. But here the citation from Liberty Foundation site: The crew actually unloaded bags, then had the horrible task of watching the aircraft slowly burn while waiting for the fire trucks to arrive. “Horrible task of watching” instead of attempt to use two handy extinguishers, that's what i meant. And yes, I wouldn't name it “good job”. They have successfully saved own lives but after that haven't tried to rescue Belle.
MongooseXXL 3 days ago
Guys, explain me one thing, please. B-17 has fire extinguishers and fire-prevention partitions. Seven persons onboard. What they there did, simply admired fire?
MongooseXXL 1 week ago
@MongooseXXL
They emptied the fire suppression system from the engine nacelle, but the fire was a fuel fire further back in inside the wing near the fuel pumps. Once the fire got to the fuel tanks it grew rapidly. They did a good job getting in back on the ground, but the fire service could not access the aircraft quickly.
FiveCentsPlease 6 days ago
Sad ending to a beautiful aircraft.
MEDIC1275 4 weeks ago
@390bullitt1968 I'm sorry for your family and friends but if it wasn't for the bomber a monster of a man would have ruined the world those bombers saved many live. And the innocent people kill should be honored
MrP61guy 1 month ago
R.I P
2008FORDF450V8 1 month ago
This Crash is one of the sadest,This was an so Wonderful Airplane
R.i.p. Liberty Belle
;`(
HarveysLS11 1 month ago
everything has an end to its life even storied b-17's
zequelll 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
These remind me of the bombers that bombed my hometown in Germany, Dresden. The entire city was swept up in a fireball that melted humans. It was the true Holocaust. I lost countless relatives and friends. These planes should be pushed off a carrier into the ocean and forgotten. They never brought anyone freedom, just pain, misery and suffering on both sides of the pond.
390bullitt1968 2 months ago
I cried when I heard the new
ajyanesp 2 months ago
also what lovely nose art >:D
adamlikestoshank 2 months ago
reminds me of Angel Babe from 12 O Clock High. After bringing them home on her final mission and damaged, she blows up once everyone is out.
adamlikestoshank 2 months ago
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT IF ANYONE LIVES OR DIES AS LONG AS B-17'S SURVIVE
TheCraftedMine 2 months ago
@TheCraftedMine
...life is simple when you are nine years old..
eaterofclams 2 weeks ago
Who ever was flying that was a MOTHERFUCKING IDIOT BASTARD WHO DESERVES TO BURN IN HELL!
TheCraftedMine 2 months ago
My dad's friend got to formation fly with this plane. He said it was once of the most thrilling thing he has ever done.
Direwolf56 2 months ago
A great loss , such a sad end to a fantastic plane , just a pity it didnt blow up more of the german bastards in the war ! these war birds need to be looked after AND flown ! sod the idiots with the thick remarks ! think there grandparents were blown up by one of these lol....
curtisducati 3 months ago
All the members of this "Liberty Foundation" need to be rounded up and exterminated!
ChicaWolverina 3 months ago
@TheWashingtonEagle
not all ww2 airplanes can be restored to flying shape, but most can be patched together to make static displays in museums. go to the USAF museum in Dayton Ohio they have plenty of cool stuff so chill out
and you @MMDDYY1000 nobody likes a troll and your full of crap and love to spout it out because you don't know anything. they don't make em like they used to
js8533 3 months ago
We must stop flying WWII war-birds. If we do, statistically they will ALL crash. Then what do we have? Memories?
TheWashingtonEagle 3 months ago
Makes me cry but how good was that crew.
MrCriticOfAll 3 months ago
@MrCriticOfAll They sucked is what they are, nothing but assholes braggarts that drench themselves with Libertarian crypto fascist, t-party propaganda!
ChicaWolverina 3 months ago
@ChicaWolverina LOL jesus are you high strung.
MrCriticOfAll 3 months ago
I got to ride in this bird once. It was a blast. I talked to one of its pilots recently and the engines were salvageable. They are planning on using them for another B-17 airframe they have in the works.
fernanties 3 months ago
A REALY TRAGIC END TO A WAR BIRD.
I FEEL FOR YOU BECAUSE, I WOULDEN'T WANT TIHS HAPPERNING TO THE BATLE OF BRITEN LANCASTER.
SuperDvsmith 3 months ago 8
Made in America. What a wasted of time build that crap.
MMDDYY1000 3 months ago
@MMDDYY1000 dude just stfu if you hate it so much why look it up
ianfrost18 3 months ago
Because you all americans think what you all are the best building military amo. I don't look for this video, some one sended to me.
MMDDYY1000 3 months ago
what a tragic loss
himmler251 3 months ago
Thank God all got out safe that's the most important thing. I sorry she is lost, I just watched the film on flying in her she was beautiful.
WelshRob1964 3 months ago
It was a blast , the best flight of my life! R.I.P.
whobrown 4 months ago
"appears" to be a total loss ?? That's staing the bleeding obvious, isn't it !!
colindominy 4 months ago
It always seems that every time I hear about an airshow it either goes perfectly without indecent or another part of flying history is lost.
costello521 4 months ago
The risk of flying any aircraft new or old is fire. Fortunately no one was killed. It may be time to start turning most of these flying B17s into static displays though, I hate to say it but it may be time.
mrFalconlem 4 months ago
Appears to be a total loss.... Really??? You to tell me that will not buff out??!!
What a dick.....
4shacks1house 5 months ago
@4shacks1house I bet a quite a few B-17 owners wouldn't call it a complete and total loss. I'm sure there are many valuable hard to find features to salvage. The extremely rare engines for instance. Parts of this plane will live on through others at least.
HashWagon 4 months ago
so sad
chaparral285 5 months ago
Man, it's been a bad year for warbirds.
TheDeJureTour 5 months ago
@TheDeJureTour which warbirds are more crashed or somehow damaged? ww2 ones? i dont know how many are still flyable of any kind of ww2 planes but its nice to know theyre still some in the sky.they should rebuilt lots of them for massive recreation dogfights at airshows haha
NLPETERNL 5 months ago
@NLPETERNL This month alone there was the P-51 at Reno, and the next day a T-28 at a different airshow.
The T-28 isn't a WWII plane, but it's still considered a warbird by most people since it uses a WWII-vintage engine.
In both cases, the pilots were instantly killed on impact.
TheDeJureTour 5 months ago
@ied86 kinda both she was rebuilt from a crappy carcus and only about 87% of it was original
imaudie43 5 months ago
i flew on this plane in bakersfield Ca.
mybestdayever 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
CNN has reported the Pilot WAS in fact DRUNK !!!
32 people now dead on the ground cause this OLD man pilot was allowed to
fly drunk ....
apatheticempathy 5 months ago
@apatheticempathy What?
GhostofCicero 5 months ago
@GhostofCicero
Seems to be making stuff up just to troll.....
FiveCentsPlease 5 months ago
Bummer!
Jman
Kabul81 5 months ago
She went down fighting!
granddad2002 5 months ago
I have been in this plane sad that it crashed
55spirithockey 5 months ago
the SAD TRUTH is this plane COULD HAVE BEEN SAVED.
>>> The firemen did not want to risk thier truck getting stuck in the mud of the cornfield so they let the aircraft burn to the ground.
How sick is that ?
apatheticempathy 5 months ago
@apatheticempathy
The firemen made the right decision. If their equipment became stuck in the mud, they would not be able to answer any life-saving emergency calls. With the right amount of money, the plane could be rebuilt.
FiveCentsPlease 5 months ago
@FiveCentsPlease your and idiot, ... that plane cannot just be "rebuilt" !
What a moron, your mother should have swallowed that night !
U Dumb as
apatheticempathy 5 months ago
@apatheticempathy
At least I can spell and form sentences, sport.
The final decision on the wreck has not been made. This B-17 (S/N 44-85734) was rebuilt with new-made parts and combined with parts from S/N 44-85813 to make a flying example. It is possible that remaining parts will be combined again. I have to point this out to you since you don't seem to be smart enough to figure this out for yourself.
FiveCentsPlease 5 months ago
@FiveCentsPlease LICK MY WAD ... GO SAVE A FIRE TRUCK ... YA MORON
apatheticempathy 5 months ago
@apatheticempathy
Since you appear to lack the intellectual capacity beyond that of a 12-year-old then I will put things in terms that will be easy for you to understand and take this moment to remind you that your "wad" does in fact belong to your mom.
FiveCentsPlease 5 months ago
@FiveCentsPlease you aint worth 1 cent you fuck face ... wait, .... thats YOUR mom ~
apatheticempathy 5 months ago
@apatheticempathy
Same to you.....
FiveCentsPlease 5 months ago
@FiveCentsPlease Most fire departments can still answer calls with one truck dedicated to a call, and even if not, there is mutual aid. This plane is scrap, yes parts can be salvaged, but the plane is a loss. If I was on the Fire Department called to this, I would personally drag every piece of hose I had out to that plane. I dont guess the FD realized the significance of the aircraft. Hopefully they atleast tried to get to it. ( I dont know the whole story, so I am not going to be critical.)
vetitoe362 5 months ago
I don't give a shit if anyone was hurt, I just want b-17s to survive
imaudie43 6 months ago
Was she a realy World War 2 veteran,or only a copy?
ied86 6 months ago
@ied86
It was not a combat-veteran aircraft. Three combat B-17s wore the name Liberty Belle(s) and two surviving B-17s were given the same name. The crashed B-17 about never saw combat and was sold as scrap, eventually purchased by Pratt and Whitney and used as a turbine engine test platform. (Look for famous photo of a B-17 with an engine in the nose.) P&W donated it to a museum and later it was damaged by a tornado. It was newly rebuilt before this accident.
FiveCentsPlease 6 months ago
@FiveCentsPlease Thank you.....but yesterday i read,she was a a ww2 survivor,over 60 mission.She survived the war,a tornado,but not the (maybe) mechanical failure,and crashed.....but fortunately no one was hurt.(i think she is so funny with an extra engine)....
ied86 6 months ago
@ied86
Several B-17s have carried the name Liberty Bell and some info is probably confusing. The one in the video above was not a combat veteran aircraft. The SN is 44-85734 and you can research the history for the airframe.
FiveCentsPlease 6 months ago
@FiveCentsPlease Thank you,i did it,,,,,It appears to me,there is a combat Belle,which salvaged on 18,February,1945,because of her several war injuries....AND an other,the 44-85734,the tornado-survivor,which crashed now.But what was hapenning whit the original?What it means salvaged?They scraped it before the end of war?So many questions........
ied86 5 months ago
@ied86
There appear to be at least 5 B-17s which were named Liberty Bell. The serial numbers are 42-30096 and 42-30039 both lost in combat, 42-31610 and 42-97849, and one unknown serial number. Most likely they were all either lost in combat or scrapped.
FiveCentsPlease 5 months ago
@FiveCentsPlease Huhh....now i know everything about Liberty Bell's i wanted,and more....thank you!
ied86 5 months ago
I was a passenger on this aircraft on its tour at Chesapeke VA. in 2009(?) Thank goodness no one was hurt but very sad to see one less example of this great aircraft gone, now only about 12 or 11 still flying! but one of those "Chuckie" is her name is now at MAM flying museum in Virginia Beach VA. Hopefully new restored B-17s will fly someday soon!
rdhutubeify 6 months ago
This B-17 gave me the second most thrilling aviation experience in my life.
She was here in northern Massachusetts flying on July 10th 2010 when I heard it and rushed to a hill with a ballfield. She was at about 2500ft and 3 miles south. I took my shirt off and frantically waved it above my head. She disappeared over the tree line but I could hear it turning out of view. About 30 seconds later the pilot brought her straight and level right over my head at what looked to me like 700ft! Amazing!
paulvolio 6 months ago 4
@paulvolio
This is second only to my first solo flight with no training..
paulvolio 6 months ago
@paulvolio
buuuuullshiiiit!
AusNav09 6 months ago
@AusNav09
Really? You think I'm lying?
paulvolio 6 months ago
@paulvolio
yeh i think you're lying. Where did you do a solo flight with no training? Iraq?
AusNav09 6 months ago
@AusNav09
Actually it was over Amesbury Massachusetts, I have the video of the flight right here on youtube..
Why would Iraq be an option for untrained solo flight?
paulvolio 6 months ago
@paulvolio
ummm... haha let me think... yes you are lying and that is good for you my friend keep up the good work bullshitting everyone with your youtube heroism. yaaaaay.
AusNav09 6 months ago
@AusNav09
Ok...
paulvolio 6 months ago
@paulvolio
You might save yourself some trouble if you point out that you did your solo in an ultralight.
FiveCentsPlease 6 months ago
I flew in the Liberty Belle in 2007. Great experience. It's good everyone got out alive.
B17Boy 6 months ago
Cause?
Firextinguishers on board?
Sad. Glad everyone got out.
robertgift 6 months ago
@robertgift
Cause not yet determined, but originated near a fuel pump that was being worked on earlier. Engine fire extinguishers activated, but the fire wasn't in the engine, it was further back in the wing near the fuel pump. The plane landed intact, but the fire took hold and reached the fuel tanks and it was too late.
FiveCentsPlease 6 months ago
@FiveCentsPlease Thanks $.05 Did they firstesthe pump? Wonder if something had not been tightened enough. Those working on the pump must feel horrible. What ignited the fuel?
robertgift 6 months ago
@robertgift
Work was being performed on a leaky fuel pump that weekend, although I don't know if this has been determined to be the cause of the fire. It's better to wait for the NTSB report. Fire was reported below the wing near the fuel pump by a chase plane before the emergency landing.
FiveCentsPlease 6 months ago
noooooooo, what a loss! it was a beautiful plane with a terrible history, one of the last survivors and now it crashed..... 4 pieces,.. this can't be fixed. i love the b17 but this is one of the problems that can appear if you fly one of these. they are old and have a terrible history, in any fight it will stand tall, but this one lost it after around 70 years... too bad.
mikak3607 6 months ago
such a beautiful bird, such a terrible loss. thankfully no one was killed
Ohh i want to cry
SkeptikSnarf 6 months ago
I just learned of the loss of this beautifully restored aircraft. As a freelance photo/video journalist I shot her in 2008 during a stop in PA. I felt a connection to her and am deeply saddened to learn her recent fate. She was a teaching tool and a memorial to our WW2 veterans. Going off mission as she now has...well...it's simply tragic.
dmfinpa 6 months ago
What a shame....
Jiffypistol 6 months ago
Leider ist das mit sehr alten maschinen passiert. Treibstoff leckagen oder kurzschlüsse auftreten können aufgrund von verschleiß und ermüdung des materials. Ich denke, dass die eigentümer sollten prüfen und zu pflegen besser diese sehr alte schiffe, die zu seiner zeit gab alles für die freiheit. Ein großer verlust für die luftfahrt und seine anhänger ...
bompiberlot 7 months ago
I wonder what the firemen were thinking when they received the call and got there.
Fantascular 7 months ago
THE FIREMAN JUST LET IT BURN !
apatheticempathy 7 months ago
This old girl did just what so many B-17s did in WW2-got her crew back safely. A testament to these wonderful planes. I flew in the B-17 Aluminum Overcast last year, and it was one of the best experiences ever. Gives you a whole new appreciation for what these brave men did for our freedom. Nearly 5000 planes and 48000 men were lost. God Bless them all.
grizzlygiff1 7 months ago
I'm usually a fan of Axis aircraft, but if I had to choose any bomber, the B-17 would be my first choice. Rest in peace, Liberty Belle.
trollolololololo 7 months ago
i walked in this very B-17 one year and it was my first time seeing a big warbird up close. farewell Liberty Belle
EnterpriseXI 7 months ago
The wreckage of the liberty belle is only about a mile from my house. i have many pictures of the remains and will be posting them soon. there is actually many still usable parts from the remains. the engines and props and tail gunner posistion and much more are in a secured location which i was fortunate enough to see and photograph. Most of the fuselage is gone but the nose is still there along with the wings and landing gears, along with a remarkably good condition tail section and rudder
johnson11b 7 months ago
How do u survive that!! Awesome pilots
USfutureMarine11 7 months ago
this made me sick when i saw this i got a bored the b17 at Ohio and man im sick i cryed when i saw this
dillman1999 7 months ago
i saw this beutiful b17 when it came to hartford ct in the summer of 2009 and it was so beutiful and it flew over my house because i lived in middletown and my dad said that one of the bulidings in our town has a becon that drect airtraffic. when i heard the engin rar it was just like in the movies. it sounded so beutiful.
TheSupercaitlin1 7 months ago
I was lucky to fly in this wonderful airplane twice. I am terribly sad to learn of this crash and there are no words that can express to the owner, the crew and many that made this great plane fly again. I will never forget the thrill of flying in her and I encourage everyone to support these great organizations that keep these great planes flying.
N4bpp1 7 months ago
damn i hate to see this.....
Brian79camino 7 months ago
Pity for this beauty!
Gothm8 7 months ago
thats how most B-17's life ends
21boxhead 7 months ago
Good new there is no victim, sad new this piece of history is gone :(
TushTushTush 7 months ago
There's more in the world they're not flyable but can be
liljjbo17 8 months ago 12
@liljjbo17 wildly expensive though
Fantascular 7 months ago
@liljjbo17 There's at least one I know of here in the UK - Sally B. There are also quite a few more too.
sheldonholy 6 months ago
@liljjbo17 There is a B17 flying in the UK. It's called "Sally B"
NRBSmith 5 months ago
low capacity fire control, destruction of an Icon from the past. Video of the plane burning in a field wheels down returns volumes of U.S.A.___ Past, Present, an Future.On another aspect. A full scale image, created even in movie prop tradition and enclosed under a huge clear dome on a now defunct/restored Midwest farm would make a fitting National monument/museum for all to reflect on in their own personal way, or would someones feelings be stepped on and we shouldn't see an image as that?
evillhillbilly 8 months ago
One B-17 is to be in Springfield, IL this weekend for tours and flights.
look on the illinois times web site for details.
TelcoPhil 8 months ago
im glad everyone got out ok, but that was probably a sight that nobody ever thought they would see again after World War II
pquinn96 8 months ago
i think my comment is the shortest here...
dynamicpaintball 8 months ago
@dynamicpaintball nope
strikeeagle345 8 months ago
man that really sucks as there are not many left. i have some video from it's last kc stop but i cant access it from this computer.
ezernut9mm 8 months ago
this really sucks. aviation history going up in flames.
ezernut9mm 8 months ago
Thank God everyone got out okay. Shame to see a classic aircraft come to an end like this. Hopefully someday, someone will restore another of the few B-17's remaining to flying status (doubtful, but one can dream can't they)? Remember the P-38 "Glacier Girl"?
FlightDreamz 8 months ago
are the engines salvageable?
offspringfanman96 8 months ago
Sad. I beleve there are less than a dozen 17's still in the air......
totse1234 8 months ago
I flew on board this aircraft a few years ago. It was an incredible experience ... AWESOME.
But folks, it didn't "crash" at all. It landed safely and the crew was able to not only get out, but then unload the aircraft because the fire was only in the wing at that point. Fire trucks responding to the scene could not drive out onto the field because it was too soft from recent rains. The crew could do nothing more than watch while the fire slowly spread until it hit the fuel tank.
AlSurMedia 8 months ago
it crashed in oswego (where i live) i saw it fly over and later i saw thick black smoke out west. oh and anyone who says i don't live there, look up on google earth, oswego is the town where it crashed. (outskirts of the town)
90Blakey 8 months ago
How Ironic- The B-17 was very well known for returning its crew back to earth safely no matter what combat damage it had suffered! Thats why it is a LEGEND. Read "The Mighty Eighth" by Roger Freeman. It is the most accurate and complete history of the 8th Air Force. From its inception in Europe all the way through the Berlin airlift. Its the story of this magnificent airplane.
LJKIrish 8 months ago
@crapper1 In essence. You hit the nail on the head. What some probably don't know, is that Mike Kellner, who is working on the "Desert Rat" B17E restoration, has manufactured plenty of airframe pieces. More than what they need. It has also been said that a reproduction wing spar is going to be available, which was the biggest hurdle.
airborne50804 8 months ago
awww shit man
stfergus608 8 months ago
@divedevil985 Sorry for the username typo! See comment below.
airborne50804 8 months ago
@Divedevil85 I agree with the fact that what was left, meaning useful parts, will be salvaged from the wreckage. However, the parts from the Liberty Belle will not be used for another restoration. They will be used to restore the Liberty Belle. The Warbird Squadron 4 had a conference the other day, and stated that the intention was to return her to flight status.
airborne50804 8 months ago
@airborne50804 how are u going to salvage that you need a complete rebuild its going to be in a sense home built
crapper1 8 months ago
If they have forgotton more than I will ever know ,thats comforting,Perhaps they should not be flying these antmore!
bill399ful 8 months ago
@bill399ful kudos to you for being willing to question the obvious. They screwed the pooch and destroyed a beautiful plpane in the process.
divedevil985 8 months ago
this is terrible. i flew in this very aircraft. what a sad loss. i want to know why this happened.
ad356 8 months ago
For all of you curious as to what will happen with the Liberty Belle now, rest assured that the Liberty Foundation has openly stated that they intend to completely rebuild her to her former glory. It may not be soon, but expect to see this plane fly again. Don't believe me? Check their website. The best thing we all can do, is donate.
airborne50804 8 months ago
@airborne50804 A second B-17 was already being restored using various parts from different crash sites. Although some of the few salvageable parts of "Liberty Belle" will be used.....the plane itself was destroyed beyond repair.
divedevil985 8 months ago
@airborne50804
The Liberty Foundation has made no such statement regarding rebuilding the aircraft. Fower's comments do not state this on the website. More often than not, the fate of the aircraft will be determined by the insurance provider (who may sell the remains) and the outcome of the accident investigation. I would like to see it rebuilt, but those plans are have not been stated as of yet.
FiveCentsPlease 8 months ago
Very sad, and a great lose. At least the four engines survived. If their is another one sitting at Davies mountain, perhaps they could be used to rebuild another B-17.
GunBroker100 8 months ago
@GunBroker100 Wow...you are a real insider. First it's Davis Monthan AFB. Second...they don't keep spare B-17's parked and waiting for engines. These planes are usually restored from remnants of crashed airframes recovered from lakes, swamps, under glaciers and other remorte and inaccessible places.
The effort requires millions of dollars, years of recovery, salvage and restoration by individuals dedicated to their preservation. Maybe you should join "the real world" instead of fantasyland.
divedevil985 8 months ago
@divedevil985 You assume much, like you accuse others of doing. How's this, My father built the P&W 2800's currently in use on the "Connie". the only flying Constellation. I know the 17 probably as well as you. My father flew them and 29's in WWII. We own a P-51 D, and are currently working on another era plane. By the way Purchased at Davies Mountain in 1975. Resto's take years and millions on a 17, Noooooo, YA Think? Ever been to the Bone yard? Amazing what IS there, you should go sometime.
GunBroker100 8 months ago
@GunBroker100 Uhhhh, I really don't have a dog in this fight but 'Connie's were all powered by CW-3350's. The later ones, like DC-7's had turbocompund engines. There are at least six flying today. And God bless your father,building R-2800's or anything related to piston engine airplanes would be the job of my dreams. Breitling,Save a Connie, and the Dutch have flying Connie's to name a few.
klesmer 8 months ago
@klesmer That is what I thought too....but I didn't want to agitate him further.
divedevil985 8 months ago
That is what I thought too....but I didn't want to agitate him further. What about the one that limped into Fantasy of Flight a few years ago....is that one of the six or does it count since it's grounded now?
divedevil985 8 months ago
@divedevil985 The one at Fantasy of Flight is the rarest of all, a 1649 Dreamliner, the last and fastest of the Connies. I don't know if she limped in to FoF, I read it was a ferry flight from Orlando. She is being fully restored for the airshow circuit, if I wasn't so old and decrepid I would pop a woodie just thinking about it. My numbers are just a guesstimate, there may be more, with more on the way. I went onboard the DC-7b at sun&fun, what a beauty, almost made my eyes leak.
klesmer 8 months ago
@klesmer Wright and P&W duplex radials are virtually the same engine and are interchangeable on most of the air frames it was used on. The mounting system is the same, they are both 18 cylinders and relatively alike in power. It was not uncommon to find both engines on field repaired bombers after the war. They may have left the factory with a matching set, but, that could change quickly. Wright's are getting real hard to find. P&W seem to be more common.
GunBroker100 8 months ago
@GunBroker100 Where is your documentation on this? I don't ever recall seeing a B-29, DC-7 or Connie being retrofitted with an R-2800. I have been a student of these airplanes and engines for over 50yrs and except for cases like Rare Bear and some of the other racers, have never heard of swapping a 3350 out for an R2800. They had a hell of a task just getting later model 3350's to fit FI-FI. Just like to know your source-would be interesting reading.
klesmer 8 months ago
@klesmer Mostly from my dad and his Confederate air force buds. They were all there, crew chiefs, pilots, A&P mechanics, you know, been there, done that? There were post war experiments with a, I think it was a Wright, 36 cylinder super charged engine set on the 29's. The 2 front banks air cooled and back 2 liquid cooled. There were great many variations of engines during this time. I was born in 46, growing up around air bases. Dad was 8th AAF. He flew about everything in the inventory.
GunBroker100 8 months ago
@GunBroker100 We have similar history's, I was born in '47, grew up in the military. Dad was in the mighty 8th, flew 27 missions in B-17's. I was 18 before we ever lived off base. If anyone could mix and match and make things work it is our guys and gals on the flight line. I know they were doing some really wierd stuff at the end war, Pratt had something similar to the Napier Sabre. I would love to get more info on the 36cylCW,that had to be somthing else to behold. Long live the Republic.
klesmer 8 months ago 3
@klesmer Small world. They were called Quad Cyclones, swung a 18 Ft, 4 blade variable prop and I'll have to check Dads books, but I think they developed 3650 HP @ 1800rpm. They looked pretty much like the 18 just twice the cylinder banks. Then there was the Allison X engine, 24 cylinder opposed double V. They had problems keeping oil out of the lower bank of cyls, so it didn't last long. A lot of power, But, problematic. Really cool stuff went on during and after the war. The double Mustang man
GunBroker100 8 months ago
@GunBroker100 Outstanding! Makes sense, a bigger,better 4360 without the rear cyllinder cooling issue's. It would have been interesting to see if it would have had the same developmental problems the 3350 had. After 43yrs as a heavy line mechanic I had to retire with dissabiltiy issues. Except for the reloading bench and trips to the shooting range I haven't been doing much of anything. Time to get of my ass and head for the book stores and library. Thanks for relighting the fire.
klesmer 8 months ago
Comment removed
GunBroker100 8 months ago
@klesmer Hey, don't knock the whole reloading bench and range thing, I do a lot of that myself. About everything between a .22 hornet and .50 BMG. I have been a custom rifle and pistol smith / collector for many years, so shooting is one of my favorite things. I'll be taking my Dad's P-51 around the fly in circuit this year. Kinda left that up to my brother the last several years. But, I think it's time I took "Mary E." up again. And I'm back to work on another plane he started before he passed
GunBroker100 8 months ago
@GunBroker100
I would like to know the N-number for "Mary E." for a fighter database I am creating, please.
FiveCentsPlease 8 months ago
@klesmer I found something you will be interested in. Type in Pratt & Whitney R-4360. It's their quad bank radial. 28 Cyl, 3000 Hp. Yup, four banks of 7. I think it is completely liquid cooled. Anyway, thought you might be interested. Also looked through some of the old books, The 36 Cyl Wright was designated CW-6750. and Peak HP of 6450 was obtained on 116 octane or higher fuel w/ super charges & DFI. The engine was not produced as Jet tech became the priority. There are four known examples.
GunBroker100 8 months ago
@GunBroker100
The R-4360 is not liquid cooled. Wright Aeronautical's experiments in hyper piston engines focused on the R-2160 Toronado, 42 cylinders and liquid-cooled. No example ever flew. A 36 cylinder, liquid-cooled prototype was offered by Lycoming as the XR-7755 as a contender for the new B-36, but the contract was given to Pratt & Whitney for the R-4360.
FiveCentsPlease 8 months ago
@klesmer Excuse me for tuning in late, but if it has not been mentioned yet, this aircraft was THE engine test bed aircraft.
jnichols3 6 months ago
@jnichols3 That could explain the fire. God bless the crew for being on top of their game and getting her on the ground.
klesmer 6 months ago
@GunBroker100
Swapping engine types is not as simple as removing a few bolts and hoses and your statement on this is highly suspect. There are a myriad of sub-systems, plumbing and oil piping, and control systems and linkages the are NOT the same for different engines and this would be no small undertaking as a field hack job. One of the problems for getting B-29 FIFI back in the air was getting reliable 3350s custom built. If an R-2800 swap was that easy it would have been done long ago.
FiveCentsPlease 8 months ago
@FiveCentsPlease Look, I NO reason to suspect my Father and his AAF friends were lying. NONE. Unlike you, they actually flew these planes into combat and kept them flying when they returned all shot to hell. You, most likely, weren't even born yet. Why don't you check the productions records, they installed as many P&W's as they did Wrights. If it was so different, why would they do it? So using Wright CW3350's was likely what the planes build sheet called for. In the mean time, Suspect this.
GunBroker100 8 months ago
@GunBroker100
No, you've made a dubious claim that the R-2800 and R-3350 are virtually identical and interchangeable, which they are not. Similar basic configuration, yes. The R-2800 guzzled more fuel than the R-3350 with different power settings, not a trait for long-distance, multi-engine heavy haul in wartime. Not on the B-17 or the B-24 either. I didn't call anyone a liar, but reading your other comments suggests you are a little fuzzy on facts (and short on manners too, it seems.)
FiveCentsPlease 8 months ago
@GunBroker100 There is no such boneyard as "Davies Mountain" that is a state park in Texas. Davis Monthan is the Air Force Boneyard you might be thinking of. I am not debating your father....I am debating you so his knowledge is irrelevant.
You sought me out and personally attacked me because you didn't like my opinion.
You are right I shouldn't have descended to your level by reciprocating your personal attack and stayed on message.
divedevil985 8 months ago
@GunBroker100 Just reading and seeing the sad tale of the loss of a rare b-17 i saw your post regarding the connie I asume by yyour post you father must have helped with this one Lockheed super constellation "Connie" VH-EAG
or there is in fact 2 flying connies :)
mav362000 8 months ago
@mav362000 The engines my dad built was at least, upon reflection, 15-20 years ago now. That one was hangered in K.C at Wheeler, at the time. I don't recall it's numbers or it's registration, sorry. But then, I kinda got out of the game after Dad passed. I suppose there could be several flying now, at least that's what I've been told. These old planes are really something. Be they bombers,fighters,or liners. They have a look, sound and silhouette that modern planes simply can't match.
GunBroker100 8 months ago
@divedevil985 Oh and by the way, I suppose you NEVER make a typo? Wings and Halo, too? It's condescending bastards like you that take the fun out of most things. Clearly you are the foremost authority on everything to do with aviation. I'm sure you have 7,000,000 hours on all known aircraft types, military, G.A. and Commercial. I hear your like every year at the fly ins. I know this, I flew that and 90% of the time they have a sport pilot license or none at all. Fuck you VERY much!
GunBroker100 8 months ago
@GunBroker100 You attacked me. If you can't take it when someone responds to a personal attack then don't dish it out. You went down the road of "dumbo" and name calling. I never resorted to such nonsense....just called you out on your mistakes.
It is sad that you aren't mature enough to consider the vailidity of alternative opinions.
divedevil985 8 months ago
@GunBroker100 there is adifference between making a typo and not knowing the difference between similarly spelled words. Like "to" and "too". A typo occurs once.....you repeatedly made this mistake throughout your posts.
Your Dad is a nice guy...I admire him. Too bad you are a spoiled brat that likes to attack people then can't man up when you get called out. Next time we meet I'll see if you have the courage to say to my face what you get away with hiding behind a computer.
divedevil985 8 months ago
It would be a great thing if all parties could come together and with outside support build a clear dome over this site leave it undisturbed except for hazards.. and it be declared a monument to The United States of America. Think about it. and pass it along.
evillhillbilly 8 months ago
Awww ive taken a tour of this plane RIP
zjwflippers 8 months ago
The numbers dwindle more. Very sad.
firstmusic00 8 months ago
Very sad. I took a tour on that thing...
BrandonAndMikey2 8 months ago
Didn't any of these idiots have a fire extinquisher on board
bill399ful 8 months ago
@bill399ful The plane was on fire prior to the crash landing. Yes, they had extinguishers on board. Apparently, this was one of those situations when fire suppression failed to put out the fire. These aren't like modern aircraft, and with their age come many unforeseen problems. Here's a clue, any one of the crew members on this bird, has forgotten more about aviation than you will ever know. This ain't a flight seem sport, It's a complex multi-engine former military bomber and a great lose.
GunBroker100 8 months ago
@GunBroker100 First....can you please stop using "lose" in place of "loss"? I believe you meant to say this isn't a "light sport" aircraft.
I continue to make the argument it shouldn't have flown until the fuel issues were resolved; additionally they should have returned to the airport at the first sign of smoke instead "of trying to figure out where it was coming from". By the time the chase plane told them they were on fire they could have returned to the airport were fireteams are waiting.
divedevil985 8 months ago
@bill399ful What good will a fire extinquisher do when an engine is on fire and your hundreds of feet off the ground.
MadMilitiaMen 8 months ago
Oh Man ! That's very sad, RIP of B-17 Flying Fortress "Liberty Belle ".
Fly to Heaven.
MrJohn1966elliott 8 months ago
Such a sad loss to aviation history .But glad the crew got out safe ..
bulletheed1970 8 months ago