I DO NOT CONDONE ABUSES-TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT-MAJOR INS STATS ARE CORRECT Considering the fact that Catholic Churches and clergy far outnumber Protestant Churches by a long shot, that means that the amount of sexually abusive Protestant ministers is a much greater proportion of the overall group than are Catholic priests.Your children are less likely to be abused in a Catholic Church than in a Protestant Church.
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This mass is a little too off the wall for my taste. Where's the incense, high altar, and proper vestments? And people wonder why the Supreme Pontiff opposes versus populum masses. When Ratzinger was a cardinal he said it is not the right of any Pope or council to make dramatic changes to the liturgy, it's the only reason he doesn't abolish alter "people" and versus populum masses. Wake up and smell the coffee folks, the only religious orders culminating vocations are ones that are conservative.
@victrolajake Do you really believe that God gives a rat's tail about incense, alters, or vestments?? Your focus is too much upon religion, and not enough on God and The Heavens.
@CounterCultureLives "Do you really believe that God gives a rat's tail about incense, alters, or vestments??" Yes, I do believe he cares about these things, and so do I. I love Catholic liturgy, not Protestant influences on the Mass of Ages. These are all symbolic and have been a part of mass since the time of the Church Fathers, regardless of what phoney, liberal historians who neglect clear evidence say. If we abolish one what keeps us from abolishing the other.
@victrolajake You're focused upon rituals created by man, not by God. Your focus is upon "Churchianity", not "Christianity". God cares about people and their relationship with The Heavens; not edifices, incense or alters, or stained glass windows, attire or apparel, or man-made rituals.
@victrolajake To say that the traditional way of conducting mass is the only correct way is an exercise in spiritual arrogance; not becoming in the eyes of The Heavens at all. grew up in the Catholic Church; even considered joining The Priesthood. Most assuredly, there is beauty in the traditional Celebrations of Mass, but there is also beauty to be found in the Celebration we see here.
There's no mockery taking place here; there is sharing of God's Joy here, and that is good!!
@CounterCultureLives Did I say that the classical Latin rite was the only correct way? Did I say that this mass was a mockery? Nope, didn't think so. I am an aspiring seminarian for F.S.S.P. and I can assure you that any mass sanctioned by the Vatican is correct, that is irrefutable. What makes a mass incorrect is the person celebrating it, Im not saying thats the situation here, but your reading into palindromes that are nonexistent. Your baseless assumptions on by beliefs are strawman appeals.
@victrolajake Weote: "I can assure you that any mass sanctioned by the Vatican is correct, that is irrefutable."
So, prove to me that your claims are irrefutable. Let's see..... Do Catholics worship on The Sabbath?? Sunday is the 1st day of the week; The Sabbath is on the 7th day of the week. Do Catholics observe Christmas or Easter?? Those Holy Days trace their roots back to Pagan origins; so does Sunday, for that matter.
Your focus is still upon "Churchianity", not Christianity.
@victrolajake Now, prove to me that any mass sanctioned by The Vatican is correct. Sunday is not The Sabbath, Christmas and Easter are Holy days based in Pagan roots. A wafer is not transformed into "God", nor is wine; you claim that the Consecration of bread and wine into "god" is irrefutable,but if those claims will not withstand objective scrutiny or critical analyses, (and they don't!!) then they can not be deemed "irrefutable".
@victrolajake No, actually, any mass sanctioned by The Vatican is NOT correct. No mortal man has the true capability of turning a wafer into "God". Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There are many aspects of The Bible that are supported by the sciences. While Catholics may fervently believe that a wafer can be transformed into the flesh of Christ, that claim fails all tests of scientific scrutiny.
The Catholic Church is, in effect, creating and worshiping a false god.
@victrolajake A few other questions for you, "victrolajake";
Is the "infallible" Vatican of today, the same "infallible" Vatican and the same Catholic Church that was around in the days of Galileo or Copernicus??
@CounterCultureLives More clarification needed. Many Churchmen of Galileo's day actually supported Galileo; it was more a matter of public/scientific opinion being against his theory (which was actually still wrong).
Also, the Vatican did not issue an infallible proclamation regarding Galileo, as you seem to think. A tribunal ordered him to recant, but the pope said absolutely NOTHING ex cathedra. A silly oversight on your part. I would advise that you consult history before posting.
@CounterCultureLives Catholic nuns aren't part of the Church's magesterium And this reprehensible, pointless dribble that you're describing isn't Church teaching so once again you are making strawman appeals based on popular fallacy. It would behoove you to use common sense, reason, and logic. Seek an education and stop embarrassing yourself, or start developing some logical inquires that aren't strawman. I didn't make ANY Biblical observations you buffoon. It's Christian Tradition to go to mass
@victrolajake Temper, Temper, victrolajake!! You're telling me that God cares about man-made rituals, alters, kneelers, and other such nuances, and you're telling me that I need to "use common sense"??
You're telling me that any mass sanctioned by the Vatican is infallible; I'm questioning and challenging the infallibility of The Vatican by raising specific points that prove that The Vatican is NOT infallible.
Substance is failing you, so facts fail you, so now it's time for a cyber-tantrum??
@victrolajake Let's see here.....You believe that a mortal, fallible man can turn a wafer of unleavened bread and a chalice of wine into "God"?? Then, you're telling me that I need to "use common sense, reason, and logic"?
As for other specific matters that I've raised, it's no surprise that you run from them. The require research, and critical thinking skills.
@CounterCultureLives Just to clarify, in Catholic theology the priest himself does not change the bread and wine; he only acts as a tool or instrument of God through which the transformation takes place.
We wouldn't want to be putting a strawman out there, would we?
@carnivorousslushee23 Thanks for your clarification; no strawman involved here at all. The most fundamental question here is whether or not any transformation takes place at all.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is there any credible evidence to support the claim that a wafer of unleavened bread is LITERALLY transformed into the flesh of Christ?? I understand matters of "faith"; but the Catholic Church claims that this transformation is factual.
@CounterCultureLives The "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" assertion assumes that the only credible evidence to be had is that which can be empirically verified, which in turn assumes the epistemological viewpoint of empiricism - which is untenable. As for the Church...the Church holds to the doctrine of transubstantiation, which assumes some Aristotelian principles (substance, accident, etc.). Those pertain to natural philosophy, not naturalistic science.
@carnivorousslushee23 Nice code-speak for a cop-out. Unless the claims of The Catholic Church can be substantiated, then they are unsubstantiated claims, and nothing more.
All You've offered so far are side-steps and lame excuses.
@CounterCultureLives Let's define what you mean by "substantiated" and we can talk some more. I have a feeling that for you, it means being empirically verifiable, which is, as I mentioned, a narrow epistemic view of knowledge and its attainment.
As for the "code-speak", what on earth do you mean? The words I used are fairly standard vocabulary within the realm of philosophy. If they're confusing to you, read up on 'em and come back before rejecting what I say.
@carnivorousslushee23 Let's talk about the word "substantiated". Can you support The Catholic Church's claim that The Eucharist is literally transformed into "God"?? What evidence do you have to support that claim??
Since people are supposedly ingesting "God" into their bodies, can you provide proof that their bodies benefit from The Eucharist??
If your claims are not verifiable, then they can not exist as "knowledge", your excuses and sidesteps not withstanding.
@carnivorousslushee23 Now, you are attempting to marginalize the importance of supporting evidences; that's what I mean by "sidestep". As for "code-speak", the issue here isn't terminology Your vocabulary isn't confusing to me at all. The issue here is that you are having to resort to shifting the focus of the discourse away from what can be verified through scientific evidences, for reasons that are obvious.
@CounterCultureLives Truth is based in knowledge and facts. If what you claim to be "knowledge" is based in truth, then your claims should withstand objective analysis and critical scrutiny; scrutiny that can be supported through scientific evidences. Without those, your philosophical beliefs are beliefs, and nothing more.
@CounterCultureLives As for "sidesteps", I'm still waiting for an explanation of why empiricism is any better than other epistemological viewpoints. This assumption of yours underlies all your posts with regard to the Church and her doctrines, and so dialoguing with someone of your viewpoint can be difficult because of the restrictions it imposes. If we're operating from different premises, then there can't be any hope of a mutual understanding.
@carnivorousslushee23 The questions that I posed to "victrolajake" had to do with stories in The Bible, and scientific considerations. He tried to play the "strawman" sidestep.
My point is that there are, in fact, scientific evidences that support certain parts of The Bible; by the same token, the sciences clearly discredit other parts of The Bible.
I also challenged him on the claims of The Vatican's perceived infallibility.
@CounterCultureLives I would assert that so far, your attempts to "disprove" the infallibility of the Church have been severely lacking - most reflect a reprehensible ignorance of history on your part. Just saying. You need to back up your claims if you want anyone to actually believe you. Throwing out the tired old Galileo rubbish only made you look foolish.
@carnivorousslushee23 The priest acts in persona Christi (in the person of Christ). He is not a tool. True, it is the Holy Spirit who transforms the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ but the priest is more than just a "tool".
@catholicpriest1 I apologize; I was attempting to use layman's terms. I understand the idea of "in persona Christi"; it's CCL who likely is not acquainted with it, and I was speaking for his benefit.
Aquinas refers to the priest as an "instrument" and a "minister", so I suppose "tool" was a poor choice of words. The point is, the priest does not PERSONALLY, through his own power, confect, as CCL seemed to think - Thomas ably says as much in ST. Q. 82, Art. 1, Ad. 1.
@carnivorousslushee23 Thank you for your respectful response. This is unusual on youtube. Hopefully, the priest will be seen again for who he "is" rather than for what he "does". I always say that a priest is no better or holler than anyone else, but the priest is different by virtue of ordination.
@CounterCultureLives Really, CCL, I don't know how you can post something like this in good faith, unless you are completely ignorant of what papal and Magisterial infallibility entails. As victrolajake pointed out (albeit a bit too testily), Catholic nuns are in NO WAY necessarily reliable purveyors of Church teaching. Heck, one need only look at Sr. Christine Schenk for proof of that. This objection is too simplistic to take seriously.
Wow, I know many Catholic nuns and you just rudely dissed all of them. Why don't we refer to what JESUS says on the matter, because all the intellectual jargon and verbage you are posting to make yourself look good means nothing to our SOULS.
Jesus said none of the things you posted. Dissing all nuns is in extremely poor taste and pretty much voids reading anything else you say.
@coolwater55 Where, pray tell, did I just diss "all" Catholic nuns? I said that nuns are not necessarily reliable teachers, any more than priests or laypeople are. I would say that they OUGHT to be, but their position does not in anyway necessarily imply it. Regarding Schenk, she denies very basic moral principles taught by the Church since its formation, including the evil of contraception. So no: she is not a reliable purveyor of Church teaching. Very simple, and in no way a "diss."
@coolwater55 Furthermore, that "jargon and verbage" that I use is the language of logical discourse and theology. Both of which are necessary for reasoned debate concerning religion. Your conclusion that my "dissing all nuns" invalidates anything I say is a perfect of example of poor reasoning. What rules of inference or induction are you using to come to that ridiculous conclusion? One 'objectionable' statement found among many other statements in no way necessarily invalidates the others.
@coolwater55 As for the "Jesus said none of the things..." part: I assume you refer to my references to the theological writings of St. Thomas Aquinas regarding priests and the Eucharist? If I understand the implicit meaning of your post, you mean to say that "Jesus never talked about that stuff, so it doesn't matter." Am I correct? I apologize if I'm jumping to conclusions here. If I am correct in my assumption, however, then I would appreciate you substantiating that claim.
@coolwater55 I agree, the salvation of our souls is of utmost importance. However, there is nothing wrong with accumulating knowledge. (Thank you, by the way, for presuming to judge that I posted all that stuff to make myself look good. I, however, intended it to be educational/clarifying for a misinformed soul on this forum. )
Jesus said nothing about a lot of things. Does this mean we shouldn't do any of the things he didn't specifically mention or command?
catholicpriest1 Wrote: "I also don't like to see the bride and groom sitting facing the congregation like they are on stage. They should be facing the altar like everyone else. And where is the kneeler for the couple?"
CCL (Pt.1) Father, read what you wrote about the Priest becoming the center of attention, and contrast that with your words here. This is THEIR wedding; a time to join their lives together in God's Blessings.
@CounterCultureLives Pt.2) What is sacred about family, friends, and loved ones staring at the back aof the bride's and groom's necks as they pledge themselves to each other in God's name?? Of course, YOU would be facing those people!! You want the guests looking at you, but not looking into the faces of the bride and groom?? Who is the center of attention now??
And what about the kneeler?? That's a matter of ceremony and ritual created by man; do you think God really cares about a kneeler??
@CounterCultureLives Pt.3) Speaking as the father of a teenage daughter, the pages on the calendar are already turning too quickly. It'll be a while before she marries, but when the day comes for her wedding, her new life to begin, It's going to be difficult enough for me to let her go. I would love nothing more than to see the love and the joy in my daughter's face. Seeing that joy, and hearing those rings of laughter would in no way make her day any less sacred or any less Holy in God's eyes.
@catholicpriest1 No, this is about God, God's Divine Love, and the love of two people who are promising themselves to each other in God's presence. You are creating "God" in your own image and likeness; that why rituals, solemnity, and ceremonies created by man are at the forefront of your thinking.
The True "God" doesn't care about kneelers, or religious attire, or buildings, or stained glass windows, or rituals; those are man's creations; they have nothing to do with The Spirit.
@CounterCultureLives The rituals, ceremonies, and solemnities of the Catholic Church all have significance, either in history or in symbolic meaning. All enrich one's experience; they are not done for the sake of ritual itself. If the ordinary Catholic doesn't know about this, then the onus is mostly on them for failing to actually LEARN about what they supposedly believe. It is laxity on their part.
@catholicpriest1 Being "the center of attention" exists in the realms of personal ego. Being "the center of attention" can be found in joyful worship, but it can also be found in solmemnity as well. It is entirely possible to bring God's Joy, and God's sense of humor into a church without becoming the center of attention.
Just as the church bells can ring in beauty outside of a church, God's Joy and Divine laughter can ring with even more meaning inside the walls of a church.
@catholicpriest1 Any Priest, any minister, can preach from an ego-centric base, and there are all too many who do. They also do it without the least bit of laughter or the slightest bit of joy to be found in the messages.
Why?? Because the sermons they preach in God's name have less to do with God, and more to do with their own egos.
On the other hand, it is entirely possible to preach God's Word with joy and fun; it is also possible to be anointed with God's love in laughter.
This is embarrassing. It's "priest as talk show host". All priests can fall into this, including myself, but it's somthing we need to steer away from. The liturgy should be a sacred event and not a comedy show...although humor can be used in small doses. I also don't like to see the bride and groom sitting facing the congregation like they are on stage. They should be facing the altar like everyone else. And where is the kneeler for the couple?
@JewelBlueIbanez (Pt.1) If you didn't want humor in your wedding, this Priest would not have made it a part of the ceremony. Considering the statistics regarding divorce, it's hard to argue that solemn ceremonies plant the seeds of long lasting matrimony.
@CounterCultureLives Pt.2) Someone needs to carry the message that God's Divine Love is sometimes solemn, but God's Love it is also a Love that brings forth JOY!! The church and The pulpit are wonderful places to share and experience God's Joy. Considering our world's present state of affairs I can assure you that there is no shortage of tears.
Physiologically speaking, Laughter is good for the body, laughter is good for the mind, and yes, laughter is good for the SOUL!!
@catholicpriest1 The reason we have so many divorces is because too many people in our society don't give proper consideration to the vows that they make to each other;, and the importance of honoring and nurturing those vows. That's a world away from making vows in The Spirit of Joy and laughter. Been married once, for 25+ years now; I've seen marriages begin and end, but I've never seen a marriage end because there was too much laughter or joy.
@CounterCultureLives I fail to see how "solemn ceremonies" would plant the seeds of discord in a couple, especially given that these "solemn" ceremonies have been around for hundreds of years. I would attribute the dismal stats on divorce mainly to the contraceptive mentality and our present age's individualism and materialism. The wedding ceremony has nothing to do with whether their marriage lasts - or if it does, then that couple is focusing on the wrong thing altogether.
@catholicpriest1 Wrong; You are confusing customs and convention with The Spirit of God.
Laughter makes liturgy no less sacred; laughter can, however, open our Spirits to discovering God's Divine Love in new ways. The Book of Ecclesiastics tells us that there is a time to laugh, and people need to be reminded that God really does have a sense of humor. (He created me!! ;o) ) Laughter is good for the Spirit; laughter in the Church and the pulpit reminds us of God's Divine Joy.
@AdventConsular ...if it's okay 2 weep at a Catholic funeral why would God not want a humorous story to be told as part of a wedding Mass or funerall Mass? God wants to hear from all his children,whether we are laughing,crying,singing Sad.that you saw this video as disrespectful,some believe these comments should be reserved 4 the reception..maybe it's a cultural way of looking @ the SACRED? Blessings
lol look at all of the people that sit here and judge. Let me know when someone dies and appoints you God. Until then, you can take your holier than thou self and put a sock in it.
No sacrament here! Priests are not comedians! They have have a vocation to serve God with reverence. Not comedy hour silliness. If your attitude is, "..oh it's no big deal, Jesus loves no matter how irreverent we are." Then I'd say you are part of the modernist problem.
Appropriate for a wedding reception, but inappropriate in the context of Liturgy. The focus of the Mass is Christ in the Eucharist and our relationship with Him and with each other. Stand up comedy coming from a priest detracts from this. Writer Annie Dillard once attended a Catholic Mass, and was amazed at how casual people were, thinking that if people really believed that God was present on the altar, they would have dropped to their knees in awe. We show heads of state more respect.
@1unhwildcat A little humor in a sermon can go a long way, but using the Mass as a setting for a comedy act is far from that. Joy in Christ in the Eucharist and joy in marriage transcends the nervous giggles and back slapping nonsense that we see here. I'm sure the newly weds and congregation will remember the priest, but that isn't what this is about.
@CounterCultureLives ......I TOTALLY "AGREE" WITH YOU!! i'VE BEEN 2 WEDDINGS & SOME FUNERALS WITH THREE DIFFERENT PRIESTS WHO WERE VERY RESPECTFUL, YET HAD EVERYONE LAUGHING OUTLOUD ...LAUGHING ,CRYING, SNEEZING ARE ALL JUST 'RELEASES of EMOTION....years ago i saw a great picture of THE LAUGHING JESUS....ONE OF MY FAVORITES : While people plan...God laughs!
@lichtbroeder Man you are a Wet Blanket Dude. This is the Day the Lord has Made Be Glad and rejoice in it. The Mass is CELEBRATION ! A Wedding Mass is a Double Celebration!
And so what? He uses a little humor in his homily. The point of that was to make a point. Really listen to the end here. 1:34. Start there. And listen.
...and do you not see the Crucifix or the tabernacle behind the altar? You do not need sacred icons to have a Holy Church. Hear the people? See the man and wife preparing for the Sacrament of Marriage? Thats whats sacred. The people, and the Holy Spirit that dwells in them. We use icons as a reminder of great saints and heros of the faith. I think seeing the Lord up on the cross is good enough, no?
Anwser me this: why does one tree falling create more noise than 1,000 growing? The Chruch is made out of people. People are not perfect. Even if this priest is not "up to par", that in no way sets a standard for how the Catholic Church is. People mess up, don't they?
This is a Protestant wedding, or a Novus Ordo Liturgical Abuse New Age Protestant Catholic wedding. Just look at the church itself. Little sacred imagery. A chair. It is NOT about expensive decoration but about sacred imagery, and an artist can create sacred imagery with a few strokes. Look at the Orthodox. The bare walls need painted icons! All cheaply done! But this is not Catholic, and this priest is a fool.
Where is the sacred-ness? Vatican II strikes again. Thanks be to God, Pope Benedict XVI is trying to right the ship, to get away from these hideous displays, where the Priest fashions himself into a protestant preacher's persona, of being THE entertainment.
THis is pretty disgusting but so typical of the Novus Ordo modern Catholic
Church with its Protestant "dumbed down" liturgy. This priest thinks he is an entertainer or on MTV. Look at the tacky altar table also and all those chairs. This is why the Catholic Church is in such a sad state.
@MyBetty111 How on earth can you say something like that? A church is not based upon the luxurious decorations and furniture they posses. In what state do you think Churches in Africa and poorer countires are? I have been on a mission trip once before, and some communities are not even lucky enough to have a few nice candles burning, or chairs to sit on.
A church is built upon the people of God, who are Temples of the Holy Spirit. They are the Church
That was beautiful!
rhmazyck812 6 days ago
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I DO NOT CONDONE ABUSES-TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT-MAJOR INS STATS ARE CORRECT Considering the fact that Catholic Churches and clergy far outnumber Protestant Churches by a long shot, that means that the amount of sexually abusive Protestant ministers is a much greater proportion of the overall group than are Catholic priests.Your children are less likely to be abused in a Catholic Church than in a Protestant Church.
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truthfulreply 1 week ago
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CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
JEREMY LIN IS THE REAL PREIST! BELIEVE BEFORE HE DROPS 38 ON YOU!
breenhill 3 weeks ago
This is not the Jay Leno Show. It is a sacred sacrament called matrimony. Our culture today just can't get this concept.
catholicpriest1 3 weeks ago
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CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
This mass is a little too off the wall for my taste. Where's the incense, high altar, and proper vestments? And people wonder why the Supreme Pontiff opposes versus populum masses. When Ratzinger was a cardinal he said it is not the right of any Pope or council to make dramatic changes to the liturgy, it's the only reason he doesn't abolish alter "people" and versus populum masses. Wake up and smell the coffee folks, the only religious orders culminating vocations are ones that are conservative.
victrolajake 4 weeks ago
@victrolajake Do you really believe that God gives a rat's tail about incense, alters, or vestments?? Your focus is too much upon religion, and not enough on God and The Heavens.
CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives "Do you really believe that God gives a rat's tail about incense, alters, or vestments??" Yes, I do believe he cares about these things, and so do I. I love Catholic liturgy, not Protestant influences on the Mass of Ages. These are all symbolic and have been a part of mass since the time of the Church Fathers, regardless of what phoney, liberal historians who neglect clear evidence say. If we abolish one what keeps us from abolishing the other.
victrolajake 4 weeks ago
@victrolajake You're focused upon rituals created by man, not by God. Your focus is upon "Churchianity", not "Christianity". God cares about people and their relationship with The Heavens; not edifices, incense or alters, or stained glass windows, attire or apparel, or man-made rituals.
CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
@victrolajake To say that the traditional way of conducting mass is the only correct way is an exercise in spiritual arrogance; not becoming in the eyes of The Heavens at all. grew up in the Catholic Church; even considered joining The Priesthood. Most assuredly, there is beauty in the traditional Celebrations of Mass, but there is also beauty to be found in the Celebration we see here.
There's no mockery taking place here; there is sharing of God's Joy here, and that is good!!
CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives Did I say that the classical Latin rite was the only correct way? Did I say that this mass was a mockery? Nope, didn't think so. I am an aspiring seminarian for F.S.S.P. and I can assure you that any mass sanctioned by the Vatican is correct, that is irrefutable. What makes a mass incorrect is the person celebrating it, Im not saying thats the situation here, but your reading into palindromes that are nonexistent. Your baseless assumptions on by beliefs are strawman appeals.
victrolajake 4 weeks ago
@victrolajake Weote: "I can assure you that any mass sanctioned by the Vatican is correct, that is irrefutable."
So, prove to me that your claims are irrefutable. Let's see..... Do Catholics worship on The Sabbath?? Sunday is the 1st day of the week; The Sabbath is on the 7th day of the week. Do Catholics observe Christmas or Easter?? Those Holy Days trace their roots back to Pagan origins; so does Sunday, for that matter.
Your focus is still upon "Churchianity", not Christianity.
CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
@victrolajake Now, prove to me that any mass sanctioned by The Vatican is correct. Sunday is not The Sabbath, Christmas and Easter are Holy days based in Pagan roots. A wafer is not transformed into "God", nor is wine; you claim that the Consecration of bread and wine into "god" is irrefutable,but if those claims will not withstand objective scrutiny or critical analyses, (and they don't!!) then they can not be deemed "irrefutable".
CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
@victrolajake Let's look at The Bible in relation to the sciences.
Do the sciences support Biblical claims of a star that led The Magi to The ChristChild??
Do the sciences support Biblical claims of a talking/burning bush??
Do the sciences support Biblical claims that a person who "sees God" would suddenly burst into flames"??
Do the sciences support claims of Christ's "sweating of Blood" at Gethsemane??
Do the sciences support observations of The Crucifixion??
The answers may surprise you!! ;o)
CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
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@victrolajake No, actually, any mass sanctioned by The Vatican is NOT correct. No mortal man has the true capability of turning a wafer into "God". Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There are many aspects of The Bible that are supported by the sciences. While Catholics may fervently believe that a wafer can be transformed into the flesh of Christ, that claim fails all tests of scientific scrutiny.
The Catholic Church is, in effect, creating and worshiping a false god.
CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
@victrolajake A few other questions for you, "victrolajake";
Is the "infallible" Vatican of today, the same "infallible" Vatican and the same Catholic Church that was around in the days of Galileo or Copernicus??
CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives More clarification needed. Many Churchmen of Galileo's day actually supported Galileo; it was more a matter of public/scientific opinion being against his theory (which was actually still wrong).
Also, the Vatican did not issue an infallible proclamation regarding Galileo, as you seem to think. A tribunal ordered him to recant, but the pope said absolutely NOTHING ex cathedra. A silly oversight on your part. I would advise that you consult history before posting.
carnivorousslushee23 3 weeks ago
@victrolajake Since the teachings of The Vatican are "infallible", then explain this to me:
When I was a child attending Catholic schools, I was taught by Catholic nuns that The Magi came from the East.
When I was a child attending Catholic Schools, I was taught by Catholic nuns that the "star" the Magi was following was in the Eastern sky.
Once again, since the teachings of The Vatican and The Catholic Church are infallible, explain to be how this could be??
CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives Catholic nuns aren't part of the Church's magesterium And this reprehensible, pointless dribble that you're describing isn't Church teaching so once again you are making strawman appeals based on popular fallacy. It would behoove you to use common sense, reason, and logic. Seek an education and stop embarrassing yourself, or start developing some logical inquires that aren't strawman. I didn't make ANY Biblical observations you buffoon. It's Christian Tradition to go to mass
victrolajake 3 weeks ago
@victrolajake Temper, Temper, victrolajake!! You're telling me that God cares about man-made rituals, alters, kneelers, and other such nuances, and you're telling me that I need to "use common sense"??
You're telling me that any mass sanctioned by the Vatican is infallible; I'm questioning and challenging the infallibility of The Vatican by raising specific points that prove that The Vatican is NOT infallible.
Substance is failing you, so facts fail you, so now it's time for a cyber-tantrum??
CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
@victrolajake Let's see here.....You believe that a mortal, fallible man can turn a wafer of unleavened bread and a chalice of wine into "God"?? Then, you're telling me that I need to "use common sense, reason, and logic"?
As for other specific matters that I've raised, it's no surprise that you run from them. The require research, and critical thinking skills.
What a fine priest you'll make!!
CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives Just to clarify, in Catholic theology the priest himself does not change the bread and wine; he only acts as a tool or instrument of God through which the transformation takes place.
We wouldn't want to be putting a strawman out there, would we?
carnivorousslushee23 3 weeks ago
@carnivorousslushee23 Thanks for your clarification; no strawman involved here at all. The most fundamental question here is whether or not any transformation takes place at all.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is there any credible evidence to support the claim that a wafer of unleavened bread is LITERALLY transformed into the flesh of Christ?? I understand matters of "faith"; but the Catholic Church claims that this transformation is factual.
CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives The "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" assertion assumes that the only credible evidence to be had is that which can be empirically verified, which in turn assumes the epistemological viewpoint of empiricism - which is untenable. As for the Church...the Church holds to the doctrine of transubstantiation, which assumes some Aristotelian principles (substance, accident, etc.). Those pertain to natural philosophy, not naturalistic science.
carnivorousslushee23 3 weeks ago
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@carnivorousslushee23 Nice code-speak for a cop-out. Unless the claims of The Catholic Church can be substantiated, then they are unsubstantiated claims, and nothing more.
All You've offered so far are side-steps and lame excuses.
CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives Let's define what you mean by "substantiated" and we can talk some more. I have a feeling that for you, it means being empirically verifiable, which is, as I mentioned, a narrow epistemic view of knowledge and its attainment.
As for the "code-speak", what on earth do you mean? The words I used are fairly standard vocabulary within the realm of philosophy. If they're confusing to you, read up on 'em and come back before rejecting what I say.
carnivorousslushee23 9 hours ago
@carnivorousslushee23 Let's talk about the word "substantiated". Can you support The Catholic Church's claim that The Eucharist is literally transformed into "God"?? What evidence do you have to support that claim??
Since people are supposedly ingesting "God" into their bodies, can you provide proof that their bodies benefit from The Eucharist??
If your claims are not verifiable, then they can not exist as "knowledge", your excuses and sidesteps not withstanding.
CounterCultureLives 9 hours ago
@carnivorousslushee23 Now, you are attempting to marginalize the importance of supporting evidences; that's what I mean by "sidestep". As for "code-speak", the issue here isn't terminology Your vocabulary isn't confusing to me at all. The issue here is that you are having to resort to shifting the focus of the discourse away from what can be verified through scientific evidences, for reasons that are obvious.
CounterCultureLives 8 hours ago
@CounterCultureLives Truth is based in knowledge and facts. If what you claim to be "knowledge" is based in truth, then your claims should withstand objective analysis and critical scrutiny; scrutiny that can be supported through scientific evidences. Without those, your philosophical beliefs are beliefs, and nothing more.
CounterCultureLives 8 hours ago
@CounterCultureLives As for "sidesteps", I'm still waiting for an explanation of why empiricism is any better than other epistemological viewpoints. This assumption of yours underlies all your posts with regard to the Church and her doctrines, and so dialoguing with someone of your viewpoint can be difficult because of the restrictions it imposes. If we're operating from different premises, then there can't be any hope of a mutual understanding.
carnivorousslushee23 9 hours ago
@carnivorousslushee23 The questions that I posed to "victrolajake" had to do with stories in The Bible, and scientific considerations. He tried to play the "strawman" sidestep.
My point is that there are, in fact, scientific evidences that support certain parts of The Bible; by the same token, the sciences clearly discredit other parts of The Bible.
I also challenged him on the claims of The Vatican's perceived infallibility.
These tie into the credibility of The Church.
CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives I would assert that so far, your attempts to "disprove" the infallibility of the Church have been severely lacking - most reflect a reprehensible ignorance of history on your part. Just saying. You need to back up your claims if you want anyone to actually believe you. Throwing out the tired old Galileo rubbish only made you look foolish.
carnivorousslushee23 3 weeks ago
@carnivorousslushee23 The priest acts in persona Christi (in the person of Christ). He is not a tool. True, it is the Holy Spirit who transforms the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ but the priest is more than just a "tool".
catholicpriest1 3 weeks ago
@catholicpriest1 I apologize; I was attempting to use layman's terms. I understand the idea of "in persona Christi"; it's CCL who likely is not acquainted with it, and I was speaking for his benefit.
Aquinas refers to the priest as an "instrument" and a "minister", so I suppose "tool" was a poor choice of words. The point is, the priest does not PERSONALLY, through his own power, confect, as CCL seemed to think - Thomas ably says as much in ST. Q. 82, Art. 1, Ad. 1.
carnivorousslushee23 3 weeks ago
@carnivorousslushee23 Thank you for your respectful response. This is unusual on youtube. Hopefully, the priest will be seen again for who he "is" rather than for what he "does". I always say that a priest is no better or holler than anyone else, but the priest is different by virtue of ordination.
catholicpriest1 3 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives Really, CCL, I don't know how you can post something like this in good faith, unless you are completely ignorant of what papal and Magisterial infallibility entails. As victrolajake pointed out (albeit a bit too testily), Catholic nuns are in NO WAY necessarily reliable purveyors of Church teaching. Heck, one need only look at Sr. Christine Schenk for proof of that. This objection is too simplistic to take seriously.
carnivorousslushee23 3 weeks ago
@carnivorousslushee23
Wow, I know many Catholic nuns and you just rudely dissed all of them. Why don't we refer to what JESUS says on the matter, because all the intellectual jargon and verbage you are posting to make yourself look good means nothing to our SOULS.
Jesus said none of the things you posted. Dissing all nuns is in extremely poor taste and pretty much voids reading anything else you say.
coolwater55 1 day ago
@coolwater55 Where, pray tell, did I just diss "all" Catholic nuns? I said that nuns are not necessarily reliable teachers, any more than priests or laypeople are. I would say that they OUGHT to be, but their position does not in anyway necessarily imply it. Regarding Schenk, she denies very basic moral principles taught by the Church since its formation, including the evil of contraception. So no: she is not a reliable purveyor of Church teaching. Very simple, and in no way a "diss."
carnivorousslushee23 9 hours ago
@coolwater55 Furthermore, that "jargon and verbage" that I use is the language of logical discourse and theology. Both of which are necessary for reasoned debate concerning religion. Your conclusion that my "dissing all nuns" invalidates anything I say is a perfect of example of poor reasoning. What rules of inference or induction are you using to come to that ridiculous conclusion? One 'objectionable' statement found among many other statements in no way necessarily invalidates the others.
carnivorousslushee23 9 hours ago
@coolwater55 As for the "Jesus said none of the things..." part: I assume you refer to my references to the theological writings of St. Thomas Aquinas regarding priests and the Eucharist? If I understand the implicit meaning of your post, you mean to say that "Jesus never talked about that stuff, so it doesn't matter." Am I correct? I apologize if I'm jumping to conclusions here. If I am correct in my assumption, however, then I would appreciate you substantiating that claim.
carnivorousslushee23 9 hours ago
@coolwater55 I agree, the salvation of our souls is of utmost importance. However, there is nothing wrong with accumulating knowledge. (Thank you, by the way, for presuming to judge that I posted all that stuff to make myself look good. I, however, intended it to be educational/clarifying for a misinformed soul on this forum. )
Jesus said nothing about a lot of things. Does this mean we shouldn't do any of the things he didn't specifically mention or command?
carnivorousslushee23 9 hours ago
catholicpriest1 Wrote: "I also don't like to see the bride and groom sitting facing the congregation like they are on stage. They should be facing the altar like everyone else. And where is the kneeler for the couple?"
CCL (Pt.1) Father, read what you wrote about the Priest becoming the center of attention, and contrast that with your words here. This is THEIR wedding; a time to join their lives together in God's Blessings.
CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
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CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
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@CounterCultureLives Pt.2) What is sacred about family, friends, and loved ones staring at the back aof the bride's and groom's necks as they pledge themselves to each other in God's name?? Of course, YOU would be facing those people!! You want the guests looking at you, but not looking into the faces of the bride and groom?? Who is the center of attention now??
And what about the kneeler?? That's a matter of ceremony and ritual created by man; do you think God really cares about a kneeler??
CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives Pt.3) Speaking as the father of a teenage daughter, the pages on the calendar are already turning too quickly. It'll be a while before she marries, but when the day comes for her wedding, her new life to begin, It's going to be difficult enough for me to let her go. I would love nothing more than to see the love and the joy in my daughter's face. Seeing that joy, and hearing those rings of laughter would in no way make her day any less sacred or any less Holy in God's eyes.
CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives God should be the center of attention. Neither the couple nor the priest. This is all about God and his covenantal love.
catholicpriest1 4 weeks ago
@catholicpriest1 No, this is about God, God's Divine Love, and the love of two people who are promising themselves to each other in God's presence. You are creating "God" in your own image and likeness; that why rituals, solemnity, and ceremonies created by man are at the forefront of your thinking.
The True "God" doesn't care about kneelers, or religious attire, or buildings, or stained glass windows, or rituals; those are man's creations; they have nothing to do with The Spirit.
CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives The rituals, ceremonies, and solemnities of the Catholic Church all have significance, either in history or in symbolic meaning. All enrich one's experience; they are not done for the sake of ritual itself. If the ordinary Catholic doesn't know about this, then the onus is mostly on them for failing to actually LEARN about what they supposedly believe. It is laxity on their part.
carnivorousslushee23 3 weeks ago
I have been a Catholic priest for 18 years. I know all to well the temptation for the priest to become the center of attention.
catholicpriest1 4 weeks ago
@catholicpriest1 Being "the center of attention" exists in the realms of personal ego. Being "the center of attention" can be found in joyful worship, but it can also be found in solmemnity as well. It is entirely possible to bring God's Joy, and God's sense of humor into a church without becoming the center of attention.
Just as the church bells can ring in beauty outside of a church, God's Joy and Divine laughter can ring with even more meaning inside the walls of a church.
CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
@catholicpriest1 Any Priest, any minister, can preach from an ego-centric base, and there are all too many who do. They also do it without the least bit of laughter or the slightest bit of joy to be found in the messages.
Why?? Because the sermons they preach in God's name have less to do with God, and more to do with their own egos.
On the other hand, it is entirely possible to preach God's Word with joy and fun; it is also possible to be anointed with God's love in laughter.
CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
This is embarrassing. It's "priest as talk show host". All priests can fall into this, including myself, but it's somthing we need to steer away from. The liturgy should be a sacred event and not a comedy show...although humor can be used in small doses. I also don't like to see the bride and groom sitting facing the congregation like they are on stage. They should be facing the altar like everyone else. And where is the kneeler for the couple?
catholicpriest1 1 month ago
@catholicpriest1
If this was my wedding, I'd be furious with the priest and embarrassed..
JewelBlueIbanez 1 month ago
@JewelBlueIbanez (Pt.1) If you didn't want humor in your wedding, this Priest would not have made it a part of the ceremony. Considering the statistics regarding divorce, it's hard to argue that solemn ceremonies plant the seeds of long lasting matrimony.
C'mon, people!! Lighten up!!
CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives Pt.2) Someone needs to carry the message that God's Divine Love is sometimes solemn, but God's Love it is also a Love that brings forth JOY!! The church and The pulpit are wonderful places to share and experience God's Joy. Considering our world's present state of affairs I can assure you that there is no shortage of tears.
Physiologically speaking, Laughter is good for the body, laughter is good for the mind, and yes, laughter is good for the SOUL!!
CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives The reason we have so many divorces if because our society takes marriage too lightly.
catholicpriest1 4 weeks ago
@catholicpriest1 The reason we have so many divorces is because too many people in our society don't give proper consideration to the vows that they make to each other;, and the importance of honoring and nurturing those vows. That's a world away from making vows in The Spirit of Joy and laughter. Been married once, for 25+ years now; I've seen marriages begin and end, but I've never seen a marriage end because there was too much laughter or joy.
CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
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victrolajake 4 weeks ago
@CounterCultureLives I fail to see how "solemn ceremonies" would plant the seeds of discord in a couple, especially given that these "solemn" ceremonies have been around for hundreds of years. I would attribute the dismal stats on divorce mainly to the contraceptive mentality and our present age's individualism and materialism. The wedding ceremony has nothing to do with whether their marriage lasts - or if it does, then that couple is focusing on the wrong thing altogether.
carnivorousslushee23 3 weeks ago
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CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
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@catholicpriest1 Wrong; You are confusing customs and convention with The Spirit of God.
Laughter makes liturgy no less sacred; laughter can, however, open our Spirits to discovering God's Divine Love in new ways. The Book of Ecclesiastics tells us that there is a time to laugh, and people need to be reminded that God really does have a sense of humor. (He created me!! ;o) ) Laughter is good for the Spirit; laughter in the Church and the pulpit reminds us of God's Divine Joy.
CounterCultureLives 4 weeks ago
@AdventConsular ...if it's okay 2 weep at a Catholic funeral why would God not want a humorous story to be told as part of a wedding Mass or funerall Mass? God wants to hear from all his children,whether we are laughing,crying,singing Sad.that you saw this video as disrespectful,some believe these comments should be reserved 4 the reception..maybe it's a cultural way of looking @ the SACRED? Blessings
mwalkingdeer1 1 month ago
lol look at all of the people that sit here and judge. Let me know when someone dies and appoints you God. Until then, you can take your holier than thou self and put a sock in it.
TheSundora 1 month ago
ROTFL! This is an example of what it is to know the joy of laughter. God loves us when we laugh as much as when we cry. Give thanks and be glad.
yourcatholicbrother 1 month ago
No sacrament here! Priests are not comedians! They have have a vocation to serve God with reverence. Not comedy hour silliness. If your attitude is, "..oh it's no big deal, Jesus loves no matter how irreverent we are." Then I'd say you are part of the modernist problem.
heretichunter74 1 month ago
Newlyweds need God and grace more than laughs.
This doesn't seem God centered.
sue200012 1 month ago
Messages wrapped in humor go down a lot better! Also, what a lovely couple those two make! Blessings to them!
ominoreg 1 month ago 5
Appropriate for a wedding reception, but inappropriate in the context of Liturgy. The focus of the Mass is Christ in the Eucharist and our relationship with Him and with each other. Stand up comedy coming from a priest detracts from this. Writer Annie Dillard once attended a Catholic Mass, and was amazed at how casual people were, thinking that if people really believed that God was present on the altar, they would have dropped to their knees in awe. We show heads of state more respect.
lichtbroeder 1 month ago
I don't care what denomination this is. I have always believed it's okay to use humor to teach lessons in the Church.
1unhwildcat 2 months ago
@1unhwildcat A little humor in a sermon can go a long way, but using the Mass as a setting for a comedy act is far from that. Joy in Christ in the Eucharist and joy in marriage transcends the nervous giggles and back slapping nonsense that we see here. I'm sure the newly weds and congregation will remember the priest, but that isn't what this is about.
lichtbroeder 1 month ago
@lichtbroeder I disagree. People need to remember that God has a sense of humor!! :o)
CounterCultureLives 1 month ago 2
@CounterCultureLives ......I TOTALLY "AGREE" WITH YOU!! i'VE BEEN 2 WEDDINGS & SOME FUNERALS WITH THREE DIFFERENT PRIESTS WHO WERE VERY RESPECTFUL, YET HAD EVERYONE LAUGHING OUTLOUD ...LAUGHING ,CRYING, SNEEZING ARE ALL JUST 'RELEASES of EMOTION....years ago i saw a great picture of THE LAUGHING JESUS....ONE OF MY FAVORITES : While people plan...God laughs!
mwalkingdeer1 1 month ago
@lichtbroeder Man you are a Wet Blanket Dude. This is the Day the Lord has Made Be Glad and rejoice in it. The Mass is CELEBRATION ! A Wedding Mass is a Double Celebration!
monkigun 1 month ago 2
He's like a gameshow host.
Akkad100 2 months ago 4
And so what? He uses a little humor in his homily. The point of that was to make a point. Really listen to the end here. 1:34. Start there. And listen.
freakayfreakayfresh 2 months ago
...and do you not see the Crucifix or the tabernacle behind the altar? You do not need sacred icons to have a Holy Church. Hear the people? See the man and wife preparing for the Sacrament of Marriage? Thats whats sacred. The people, and the Holy Spirit that dwells in them. We use icons as a reminder of great saints and heros of the faith. I think seeing the Lord up on the cross is good enough, no?
freakayfreakayfresh 2 months ago
Anwser me this: why does one tree falling create more noise than 1,000 growing? The Chruch is made out of people. People are not perfect. Even if this priest is not "up to par", that in no way sets a standard for how the Catholic Church is. People mess up, don't they?
freakayfreakayfresh 2 months ago
This is the kind of garbage that has destroyed the Catholic Church!
MyBetty111 2 months ago
Vatican II strikes again, the end of the Catholic Church.
MyBetty111 2 months ago
This is a Protestant wedding, or a Novus Ordo Liturgical Abuse New Age Protestant Catholic wedding. Just look at the church itself. Little sacred imagery. A chair. It is NOT about expensive decoration but about sacred imagery, and an artist can create sacred imagery with a few strokes. Look at the Orthodox. The bare walls need painted icons! All cheaply done! But this is not Catholic, and this priest is a fool.
MyBetty111 2 months ago
This cannot be a Roman Catholic wedding!
laroquea2012 2 months ago
Surely, this is not a Roman Catholic wedding....
laroquea2012 2 months ago
Where is the sacred-ness? Vatican II strikes again. Thanks be to God, Pope Benedict XVI is trying to right the ship, to get away from these hideous displays, where the Priest fashions himself into a protestant preacher's persona, of being THE entertainment.
BigBingFan 2 months ago
Disturbing. Oh look - there's even a "unity candle".
Where is Christ in this? Hidden by this entertainer no doubt...
jbosco08 2 months ago
THis is pretty disgusting but so typical of the Novus Ordo modern Catholic
Church with its Protestant "dumbed down" liturgy. This priest thinks he is an entertainer or on MTV. Look at the tacky altar table also and all those chairs. This is why the Catholic Church is in such a sad state.
MyBetty111 2 months ago
@MyBetty111 How on earth can you say something like that? A church is not based upon the luxurious decorations and furniture they posses. In what state do you think Churches in Africa and poorer countires are? I have been on a mission trip once before, and some communities are not even lucky enough to have a few nice candles burning, or chairs to sit on.
A church is built upon the people of God, who are Temples of the Holy Spirit. They are the Church
freakayfreakayfresh 2 months ago