You know what there are a lot of things that I cant afford that my rich counter parts can, I dont envy them, and I dont greed for what they can get that I cant. That is just the way it is. Others went and got more edeucation than I did, others have worked more than I have, and others are smarter than me. They deserve to have more than me!
I agree on a lot of things in the libertarian philosphy, but not on health care. Virtually all of us will need one day healthcare, and without your health, you are not nothing. I think government intervention in healthcare is legitimate, why social security, department of education but not single-payer healthcare? The common citizen can't afford hundreds of dollars on cancer treatments or surgeries and stuff like that.
AS A CUBAN WHO LIVES IN MIAMI AND SPEAKS WITH CUBANS FROM CUBA EVERY DAY, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ONLY THE GOVT ELITE GET GOOD HEALTH CARE THE OTHER 99% GET NOTHING DONT BE FOOLED!!!
@Paslay101 He will stay in the USA of course, because HES RICH. The whole point is that the American healthcare system works very well IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. What about the 40 million people that can not afford it and simply do not have health insurance?? We are talking about the average citizen in these countries, not rich people. Rich people are not average citizens, they are rich.
No it works very well because it's one of the few developed nations that isn't completely government run. Government bureaucracy is the problem, not the solution.
@dajisali1 Works very well? You call 40 million uninsured citizens that have NO HEALTH CARE, and insurance companies being able to deny you for pre-existing conditions working well?
@dajisali1 I prefer getting decent treatment through bureaucratic government healthcare (like in Canada and every other industrialized state) than not being able to afford it at all.
OK I was born in Cuba in a SMALL town with less than 10 000 people. We had a Medical clinic in each neighborhood and great Hospital that evo though it was not the best I only had to give my name for them to treat me. Is not the best, but if you ask me just the fact that they are compering it to the U.S health care and not to the one in North Africa or of Haiti shows how good it is.
Easy for people to give bia's stories which people want to hear but seriously...
Ive lived in the UK most of my life and in my personal experience the NHS is a really good system but it does have problems, obv it has flaws but its easy to state the bad bits and not the good bits. like michael moore does on his bias view of cuban health care system.
If you look at Good vs Bad on socialised healthcare, in my opinion its alot better then private healthcare. its nt made to rip you off.
To all the "Doctors" out there who love this free market system, I have three questions for you:
1. How are the prices for services set. Are you allowed to charge $750,000 for a procedure that costs about 200 dollars to do or are there price restrictions.
2. How have you dealt with patients who didn't have insurance?
3. Have you killed these patients rather than treated. If not, why did you treat them instead of saving money by stabbing them in the throat with a scalpel.
1. All you have to do is make the demand and you can charge whatever you want by eliminating every other doctor.
2. You didn't even answer this question at all. If you're a doctor, how do you handle patients who can't pay for your services?
3. The only people who can prosecute for murder are the same bureaucrats who libertarians hate. If a doctor killed their patients, stole their wallets, money and credit card information, then they would be rich.
2. Historically charities have been able to deal with people that can't pay in very economically free countries.
3.You don't need a large intrusive government to prosecute murder. Even without prosecution the stigma created my such malpractise would put you out of business quickly
@festdir Track down the following week's installment "20/20 - ''Whose Body Is It Anyway Sick in America'' Sept 14, 2007, as Stossel indicates at the end of the clip.
@festdir You asked why he didn't debate Moore but if you actually watched the whole thing, you would know he did in the following episode that I cited.
@festdir It sounds to me like you didn't even watch THIS video all the way through. At the end of the video, in response to Moore's "you should challenge me on these things", Stossell says in response, "Ok, next week on 20/20, we'll just do just that".
@festdir LOL! I'm not blaming anything. I'm just amused that this upsets you so much. You complained that Stossel didn't debate Moore. I tried to be helpful and point you to where Stossel did a one on one with Moore. For some reason, this apparently enrages you further. I think you've misunderstood and try to explain further about the other video. This makes you even more upset. (Shrug) Very amusing.
Sure there is. Namely my amusement at seeing you trying to use a DIFFERENT VIDEO to explain away the content of YOUR video.
"don't think that's what this video...."
It doesn't matter what you think....the video SHOWS Stossel interrupting Moore by splicing in his commentary. The video SHOWS Stossel citing a youtube clip as 'evidence'.
Not that the journey into your personal world of make believe isn't completely enthralling.
@Darkrunner1975 He switched because Stossel was a couple of questions away from exposing the fat lying fuck, who cut a deal with Fidel to make Cuba and himself look good in order to sell movie tickets. This movie is so staged and absurd to those of us who actually lived there is sadly comical.
Typical Michael Moore. Start presenting actual facts to him and he puts his tail between his legs and runs a way. Notice how after a few facts, he just didn't want to talk about cuba anymore. Time to change the subject. Note to Michael. If you don't want to get spanked, stick to college campuses where the kids don't know enough to call you on your pathetic BS.
HE never had a point. Neither do you. If something doesn't fit your perception, you interpret it as an insult. Moore used a stilted version of things to present his case, and so did Stossel, yet you both wish to view the latter as 'factual' because it suits your limited perspective.
Hope you're not feeling too insulted at this point. :)
Moore may not be completely candid in his recitation of the facts, but this corporate shill who's grilling him (it's certainly not an interview) wears his heart on his sleeve, and his heart has been bought by his corporate masters. Unbiased media (or even left-wing media, for that matter), my ass - this was a well-planned character assassination, nothing more.
Michael Moore said that Cuba was a Red herring and that we should focus on Britain and Canada. But by doing so, he is ESSENTIALLY creating a red herring to distract Stossel from the actual topic: Cuba. And those two aren't excellent red herrings, either.
The quality of health care and life expectancy of some Latin American countries is really beginning to catch up with those in developed nations (Cuba, Chile, Costa Rica). The difference is that most managed to do it through democracy.
The quality of Costa Rica at some massive (14% I think) spending of total GNP - Come on, American healtch care is appalling.. I live in a country where we spend - 8% of GDP on FULL Medicare for all citizens, you pay nothing seeing a GP.
Perhaps this is the last step for US conservatives - 'There's no problem, I see no problem, carry on'.
if you sponsor an elderly relative to come from another country you're supposed to be financially responsible, but time and time again I've seen those relatives- who never paid a cent into the system- get signed up for Media-Cal. They get everything at the expense of the taxpayer.
If Canadian healthcare is so great, why do so many Canadians find it necessary to cross the border to see a doctor?
It's a fallacy that people don't get healthcare in the US. A hospital is liable for a fine of $50,000 if they refuse to see someone in the ER. A big problem stems from giving "free" treatment to people who not only never paid into the system, but have not even come here legally. Even dome who enter legally are draining the system- if you sponsor an elderly parent from another...
You've heard the doctors themselves (right after the 3:16 minute mark: "I personally did SEVENTY TO EIGHTY ABORTIONS A DAY". If an ABORTIONIST in the USA did that, he'd make at least $2,000,000 a year. In other words, abortionists MIGHT do TWENTY A WEEK in the USA. The whole socialized medicine scheme is to murder "useless feeders", one of the central aims of global government under Masonic puppets like Obama.
Americans like Stossel of course will lie about Cuban health care. The US media is generally appallingly jingoistic and inaccurate. Cuban ex-patriots will portray everything under Castro as horrific to promote a US military solution there. However if you talk to objective Cubans they will tell you the health system works, but those who can pay the bribes will jump lines and get quicker service. That is not a small issue.
@dicknut17 america has the best quality health care in the world.everyone in england may have health insurance but the quality of care they receive is not as good.just like canada where the average wait time to see a doctor is 9 hours.the longest i have had to wait is 20 minutes.
@cassidy99ful Yet despite this "best quality health care", Americans still only live a mere, single year longer than Cubans on average. Maybe the reason for that is because Americans are feeding themselves Whoppers for breakfast, lunch and dinner and then shooting each other in the face 'cause their onion rings got cold. Canadians' life expectancy is 81 and in the US it's 76. That fact came from the CIA web site, btw.
@dicknut17 you do know that the people that report those life expectancy statistics just go by the gov''ts word don't you? so if you believe what the cuban gov't tells you maybe you should get your head out of your arse.
@dicknut17 The FDA and all the Big Pharmaceutical companies are in bed together. Its illegal to even advertise something to treat / cure an illness unless its an actual synthetic patented product from a Pharmaceutical company. Infact most of big pharm isn't interested in researching for CURES <-- at all ..they simply want to establish "treatments" ..and label more and more things as "diseases" so it falls under the government enforced laws that they can profit from.
Not once did Michael Moore EVER say that Cuba had better health care than the United States.
In fact, according to his list, it's clearly presented that Cuba is below the US in health care (Cuba is 39, US is 37 or 38, I believe). According to this list, despite patients STARVING, Cuba is still only slightly worse than the US.
What Moore did was show that even in Cuba, a communist, third world country, citizens had the right to decent, free health care. In the US, it is not free.
@Bigdadda20 Hahahaha Im sorry you said decent healthcare, have you been to public hospitals in third world countries? I am a Brazilian American who goes to central Brazil every year in the Mato Grosso state, and the public hospital is atrocious i went in there and I felt like I was walking into a horror movie, and Brazil is a corrupt democratic government. Only rich people go to the nice private hospitals.
If anyone thinks that Cuba's healthcare is free they need to do their homework. 58 cents out of every peso cuban workers earn goes to the government. Oh and, average salary is 200 pesos a month = 20 US Dollars. Moore is a moron.
Medical bills are still one of the biggest reasons for personal debt in America. I would rather get sick in Canada with our flawed socialized health care system then get sick in America.
I was born and raised in the UK and trained and worked there as an RN before coming to the US. Personal experience has shown me that for all its flaws the US system is vastly superior to socialized medicine. Comparing the standard of care here to there is like comparing the Ritz Carlton to some flea bag motel. The British NHS was already floundering in 1988 and the horror stories since are legion. An adult make is 600% more likely to die of prostate cancer there.
I saw the movie Sicko and as I understood as an non-Englisch speaking guy Moore didn't really criticize the abilities of the doctors but the insurance companies. Isn't it true that they do not want to give fat people an insurance ot try to get rid of their responsibility. What are your experiences? And what's an RN a registered nurse? That's what the online dictionary says.
Your personal (anecdotal) experience means little or nothing, and doesn't entitle you to claim that "the US system is vastly superior". Please back up your claims with proper statistics and documented facts.(Wikipedia -Health care, OECD.org, etc ) and stop trying to mislead readers.
@Finlandcitizen ok here is the other side: And i quote, "Michael Moore has to be the ugliest person alive. Amirite?". Yes, I'm really going to study that comment..............
03:19 EVERYBODY LIES,moore and this doc,you don´t have enough time in a day to do that,unless you´r doing them with both hands simultaneously and...no wait,impossible
Look Elitist like "John Stossel" most probably has an expensive Health Care Plan & of course he's going to insinuate that America has the better Health Care!!!Yes??What good is it for our Country to have such great health care system...if...they will not treat you or your loved one's because you couldn't afford it??Tell that to everyone that has been sent packin' cause they were told by the Hospital or Emergency Clinic that they could not help them!!!
@CaptAntiGravity That is why Stossel is trying to educate us on how government is stealing our money. He wants us to keep our money so that we all can have the same health care plan that he has.
Your last sentence doesn't make any sense at all. It is currently illegal for a hospital turn away anyone if they are in need of health care regardless of weather they can pay or not.
this is an absolute joke, cuba????? I'm not in favor of national health care, but he should have at least gone to canada to make his point, why Cuba??some piece of dirt third world country??? everyone knows cubas health care is a joke, yeh, its equal all right, everyone gets the same crap service
And like our own government has never lied or hidden anything from us???He makes it seem as if capitalism has no flaws and everyone just living it up fine as dandy right now... Stossel is a right winger who doesn't want to see progress with our health care system...That is why he works for fox news now.And Sicko was a great film about our right to have health care for all,according to our needs and not greed..Stossel can refute as much as he wants but it won't change my mind about health care...
@Ezra1977 I think I counted 5 Leftist hot-words and phrases in your comment... anyone else find more?
'Progress' apparently means socialist medicine for the rich, poverty and starvation for the poor? Health care is no more a right than is a bullet-proof vest or a glass of water. You have to get your own, man.
.. according to our needs, not greed..? OK Karl. Quit being greedy with your property, and send it to me... I'm broke, and need all the wealth you can share right now, and maybe more.
Moore does a film purporting to show how SUPERIOR Cuban healthcare is to that in the U.S., yet when he's pinned down on conflicting evidence FROM CUBA, Moore then says the whole Cuban healthcare issue is a red herring (i.e., an irrelevant distraction)? Could the man be any more of an lying ass?
You got to love all the liberal media promoting 3rd world healthcare as the model for our universal plan. Pelosi should just go crawl back under her rock with Reid & Obama!
Wow, next time Ill be just like Moore, and when someone presents me with a tough question Ill just laugh and say ooh you are so 13th century hahahahahaha. WTF???? what kind of an answer was that? Well tell me what does gvt. do better more efficient in comparison to private sector?
Oh for the love of G'd of course the sections shown in the movie are for elites only. It is economically impossible for a developed nation to provide such a health care if it is ran by government. I grew up in USSR, which was far stronger than Cuba economically, and you can trust me our health care system was total garbage. And if anyone thinks that Cuba has this system for everyone, then you are just a fool who cant even do a simple math
TVZ - how did I can the "entire world" socialist? I just mentioned Cuba and said "another socialized" country FALLS apart (read the paper at all - watch any news programs when you're zombing out?) Google PIIGS
Google EURO CRISIS
Google FORCED AUSTERITY
Google NIH cuts Millions of procedures/cuts $29 BILLION from HC
Greece says "amputations are cheaper" than special shoes for diabetics.
Oh you say - Japan is doing "great"? - LOOK UP THEIR NATIONAL DEBT(hint don't look lower than first
Michael Moore is fat, stupid and lazy. He prostitutes lies for his own personal gain. He exploits capitalism for his riches, only to denounce it at the same time.
Yes, Michael - please tell us how Cuba is doing today? Fidel recently admitted he has to fire 500,000 govt employees, cut care/costs, etc -
As Fidel said - "the cuban model no longer works for cuba"
Another socialized country FALLS apart!
How many times does this have to happen before you LIBERALS LEARN - it's a failure!
you have just called the entire world, except for US, socialist. There are many very successful countries in the world (japan for example) who have this so called "socialized" medicine, and they are not falling apart. US is falling apart very quickly though...
Here's another Stossel lie. He said that Moore claims the CIA thinks Cuban heatlh care is pretty good. That's true. The CIA claims that compared to all South/Central American health care it is the best. Stossel then inserts a comparison with the US that the CIA didn't do, and to which Moore never said they did. I'm not saying Stossel isn't a clever liar, but he's still a liar. It's right there for all to see if you're smart enough to see it.
The whole point of Sicko is that Michael Moore thinks that the US Healthcare system is failing as whole and needs to have Government run Healthcare.
And part of his argument is that Cuba does it right or "better" than the US as (allegedly) everyone is covered and everyone gets good Health Care.
The problem is that Moore undercuts his argument by using Cuba as an example of "doing it right" because he happily laps up whatever the Cuban Government tells him.
@JYoung1138 Paragraph 1 - I agree. Para 2 - Not exactly. In the movie he clearly shows WHO rankings: Cuba ranked #39 and the US #37. Para 3 - What? You cannot develop an argument based on the fact that if you don't agree with the opposing viewpoint then they must be lying (Cuban gov't, WHO, Doctors w/o borders, etc). That's a logical fallacy. It also assumes the US gov't tells the truth. Say what??
Answer me this then, if Moore doesn't believe that Cuba has better Healthcare, then why did he devote a large part of his movie to their system and says in the clip above that they get it right?
And it's interesting that Moore(and you) is willing to believe our Government (the CIA) about Cuban Health care when he's been skeptical of them in the past.
@JYoung1138 It's not 'having it both ways' to cite the CIA on Cuba's health care. The CIA may be in the propaganda business, but they're not in the business of propagandizing for Cuba. When they confirm that Cuba has the highest life expectancy in the region-- as they have-- it's a grudging concession for them. Stossel instead goes to a guy who runs an anti-Castro website; not exactly the New England Journal of Medicine. Stossel cherry picks information to make his arguments.
@JYoung1138 This one is easy to answer. The CIA/US have no interest in extolling the virtues of Cuban health care. Nevertheless, the CIA compared it favorably with other poor nations. It's the same as if a parent claims his child is not very bright, we would believe the parent who would have no desire to have a dumb kid, but if the parent claims his issue is smarter than Einstein could ever hope to be, then we don't believe the parent and suspect self-aggrandizement.
Babies with down syndrome shouldnt be born. Also. The fact that Cuba's such a poor country is because America blocks trade. If America didnt block trade, Cuba would be doing FINE.
And you americans dont like socialists, do you? So why not let them starve there?
@ssmusic214 An American company, with some exceptions, cannot have business dealings with Cuba, nor can any American travel to Cuba. The basis for the embargo, in place for 50 years, is that "they're not a democracy", although the US has supported brutal monsters like Pinochet and even Sadaam Hussein who didn't have democracies. The difference was these monsters were friendly to the US. I would classify that as a restriction of freedom, no question about it. Next.
@indoctus41 So what? Cuba is still free to trade with anybody else in the world. So blaming US for Cuban economic disaster is ridiculous.
And US Embargo was imposed not because "they're not a democracy", but of b/c of Cuban policies of "exporting revolution" and support of guerrilla movements in foreign countries.
@ssmusic214 The US had 60 years to turn Cuba into a democratic paradise and by the 50's there was widespread disease, poverty, illiteracy, you name it. Even a dictatorship under Batista. No use whining now that they took another path.
@indoctus41 Another communist fairy tale. Before Castro the travel was free between US and Cuba, but the Cubans weren't fleeing by 1000s risking their lives swimming on the rafts through 90 miles of open ocean infested with sharks just to get out from there.
@indoctus41 No kidding! All those millions of people who scaling Berlin Wall being shot at, walking through mine fields, under barbed wire, drowning in the ocean trying to escape from communism are doing it just for fan......
@ssmusic214: I'm not sure if you are intentionally misunderstanding me or not. In either case, there is no reason to continue as you seem unacquainted with Cuban history other than through the eyes of your preferred propagandists. Adios.
@indoctus41 How would you know? You are just a brainwashed "useful idiot" who never tasted reality of life under communist dictators and only repeating standard leftist propaganda lines like mindless parrot.
@indoctus41 That's true, he ignores most facts and cherry picks a few out-of-context facts to paint a lie in order to sell a fictional movie to make money.
There's actually 3 rings of health care in Cuba, 1 for outsiders, the best, 2 for Cuban government, the second best, 3 for regular cubans, the worst. Trust me you don't want to try the 3rd, the pictures don't describe how bad it really is.
And this is what you get from American Healthcare. 2 million Americans forgoing any further cancer treatment because they can't afford it.
Provinces that don't cover drugs, outside of the poor and seniors, on avg. only pay $100/month to get private insurance for drugs/dental/eye care.The vast majority, over 95% get ALL expensive drugs needed for care.PERIOD! Those other 5% can apply through other means through their doctor to get covered.
BTW, article is 2 years old, user fee scrapped choco.
@Thetruthishere11 Interesting that the people who put together the mooreexposed site don't show any references. No proof of anything. It's just unsupported garbage. If you go the the Moore site, he backs up all his claims with documents from various sources. Then again when was the last time a Republican quoted a source. 'Nuf said.
"Cuba is a red herring." A good portion of Sicko is about health care in Cuba! The translation for "Cuba is a red herring" is "Stossel, you are correct about Cuba, but I am not about to admit the fallacy of my argument on national tv."
Stossel interviews anti-Castro rebels, (who BTW benefit from the adversity between the US and Cuba because they send their US dollars back to Cuba where it's worth much more.) So why should we believe them? We never get that. We do get Stossel saying 'Why should I believe you?' It's a clever one-sided rant unless you're smart enough to see through it.
some hospitals in the US were dropping sick people out in the street because they didnt have health insurance, so whats Stossels point , that were a littile better than a third world poor country
@jz580500 We know you're lying because you're either unable or unwilling to be specific. Generalities and vagueness do not support a logical argument.
@tripleheshy, what jz580500 also fails to realize that simply dumping sick people who need treatment on the streets is illegal in the U.S. If he knows of specific hospitals doing that why isn't he reporting it to the proper authorities?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Stossel, by and large a stranger to truth, is trying to compare a health care system of an impoverished nation under an intense embargo by the US with the US itself, the richest nation on earth.
That very fact that it is possible to make comparisons and discuss which is better belies his argument. In relation to other rich nations (Germany, France, etc) who have the resources and a socialist health care system, US health care is a pathetic joke.
@indoctus41 Then tell me Canadian one why two of your politicians,Danny Williams and Brenda Stronach, came to the God forsaken shithole that is the US for their treatment/surgery?? I hope your family watches as you die waiting in line like some pathetic health care deli. Having your name picked out of a shoe box???? That to me is incredibly pathetic, not to mention hilarious.
@JYoung1138 In the movie Moore showed the WHO ratings: Cuban health care 39th, US 37th (WHO). Last time I looked the higher the number the worse the rating. Next.
@JYoung1138: Moore NEVER said Cuban health care is better than the US. STOSSEL SAID MOORE SAID THIS. Also take a look at the hospital for Cubans - no doctors, nurses, staff of any kind. How believable is that??? If you 'smuggle' a video out of Cuba how can you confirm what is on the video. Is that even a hospital? Is it even Cuba?? Come on people. THINK!!!
Viva Cuba!
TheSeriesOnline 1 month ago
Michael Moore looks like a cartoon character: Gigantic fat head with a little squishy face. Kinda like Peter Griffin but not as smart.
RBNightlinger 2 months ago 4
Michael Moore is such a joke. When he gets backed into a corner he changes the subject. Pathetic.
atchisrj1 3 months ago 4
that's bullshit Americans average 78 year of life.
why do they save average when they don't mean it -.-
MrJarth 3 months ago
Michael Moore should switch to David Schulz's tactics.
hempbilly 3 months ago
You know what there are a lot of things that I cant afford that my rich counter parts can, I dont envy them, and I dont greed for what they can get that I cant. That is just the way it is. Others went and got more edeucation than I did, others have worked more than I have, and others are smarter than me. They deserve to have more than me!
dajisali1 3 months ago
I agree on a lot of things in the libertarian philosphy, but not on health care. Virtually all of us will need one day healthcare, and without your health, you are not nothing. I think government intervention in healthcare is legitimate, why social security, department of education but not single-payer healthcare? The common citizen can't afford hundreds of dollars on cancer treatments or surgeries and stuff like that.
TheMarksmenCat 3 months ago
AS A CUBAN WHO LIVES IN MIAMI AND SPEAKS WITH CUBANS FROM CUBA EVERY DAY, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ONLY THE GOVT ELITE GET GOOD HEALTH CARE THE OTHER 99% GET NOTHING DONT BE FOOLED!!!
dajisali1 3 months ago 9
Micheal Moore is a heart attack waiting to happen, and when it happens where do you think he will go for treatment USA or Cuba?
Paslay101 3 months ago 3
@Paslay101 He will stay in the USA of course, because HES RICH. The whole point is that the American healthcare system works very well IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. What about the 40 million people that can not afford it and simply do not have health insurance?? We are talking about the average citizen in these countries, not rich people. Rich people are not average citizens, they are rich.
Legacy285 3 months ago
@Legacy285
No it works very well because it's one of the few developed nations that isn't completely government run. Government bureaucracy is the problem, not the solution.
dajisali1 3 months ago
@dajisali1 Works very well? You call 40 million uninsured citizens that have NO HEALTH CARE, and insurance companies being able to deny you for pre-existing conditions working well?
Legacy285 3 months ago
@dajisali1 I prefer getting decent treatment through bureaucratic government healthcare (like in Canada and every other industrialized state) than not being able to afford it at all.
TheMarksmenCat 3 months ago
OK I was born in Cuba in a SMALL town with less than 10 000 people. We had a Medical clinic in each neighborhood and great Hospital that evo though it was not the best I only had to give my name for them to treat me. Is not the best, but if you ask me just the fact that they are compering it to the U.S health care and not to the one in North Africa or of Haiti shows how good it is.
galapin26 4 months ago
Michael Moore is sincere in what he does, but a big naive fool fucking idiot. It's just embarrasing. And thinks communism will save the world.
I wonder if he ever read something about basic economics
argenta86 4 months ago
Cuban doctors please don't give Michael Moore free healthcare--just give him a big Mac and send him somewhere else.
LogicalFlawDetector 4 months ago
Easy for people to give bia's stories which people want to hear but seriously...
Ive lived in the UK most of my life and in my personal experience the NHS is a really good system but it does have problems, obv it has flaws but its easy to state the bad bits and not the good bits. like michael moore does on his bias view of cuban health care system.
If you look at Good vs Bad on socialised healthcare, in my opinion its alot better then private healthcare. its nt made to rip you off.
3rdWorldGame 4 months ago
To all the "Doctors" out there who love this free market system, I have three questions for you:
1. How are the prices for services set. Are you allowed to charge $750,000 for a procedure that costs about 200 dollars to do or are there price restrictions.
2. How have you dealt with patients who didn't have insurance?
3. Have you killed these patients rather than treated. If not, why did you treat them instead of saving money by stabbing them in the throat with a scalpel.
SoA990 5 months ago
@SoA990 Wow that is stupid. First off I'm not sure there are many doctors who work under a free market system there certainly isn't any in america.
1. Competition means that if a doctor wished to charge that much more than the cost of a procedure for a procedure then they would get no patients.
2. A free market system wouldn't necessary work with insurance.
3. Doctors wouldn't do this because they wouldn't get paid and would face murder charges.
666or999 4 months ago
@666or999 3 problems with your answers:
1. All you have to do is make the demand and you can charge whatever you want by eliminating every other doctor.
2. You didn't even answer this question at all. If you're a doctor, how do you handle patients who can't pay for your services?
3. The only people who can prosecute for murder are the same bureaucrats who libertarians hate. If a doctor killed their patients, stole their wallets, money and credit card information, then they would be rich.
SoA990 4 months ago
@SoA990
1. Eliminating every other doctor? How?
2. Historically charities have been able to deal with people that can't pay in very economically free countries.
3.You don't need a large intrusive government to prosecute murder. Even without prosecution the stigma created my such malpractise would put you out of business quickly
666or999 4 months ago
If Stossel wanted to debate Moore, he should have just done it instead of giving his opinion in between the interview.
"youtube clip"
Great Job. Tremendous investigative journalism, Stossel.
festdir 5 months ago
@festdir Track down the following week's installment "20/20 - ''Whose Body Is It Anyway Sick in America'' Sept 14, 2007, as Stossel indicates at the end of the clip.
JYoung1138 5 months ago
@JYoung1138 "Track down the following week's installment"
Why, does he cite a 'youtube clip' again?
festdir 5 months ago
@festdir Do you not understand that this was originally aired as part of a television program?
Or do you think Stossel made this just for youtube?
JYoung1138 5 months ago
@JYoung1138 "do you think Stossel made this just for youtube?"
No. But in this clip STOSSEL cites a youtube clip.
Something I made clear in my comment.
Do you not know what 'cite' means?
festdir 5 months ago
@festdir You asked why he didn't debate Moore but if you actually watched the whole thing, you would know he did in the following episode that I cited.
JYoung1138 4 months ago
@JYoung1138 "he didn't debate Moore"
He didn't. He heavily edited it with interludes for Stossel to continuously fillibuster.
Stossel is a hypocritical coward that sued for half a million dollars because he was slapped.
And it shows in this clip.
festdir 4 months ago
@festdir So in other words, you didn't watch the episode I cited.
JYoung1138 4 months ago
@JYoung1138
In other words, I am commenting on THIS video....in THIS video's comment section, no less.
Go figure.
festdir 4 months ago
@festdir It sounds to me like you didn't even watch THIS video all the way through. At the end of the video, in response to Moore's "you should challenge me on these things", Stossell says in response, "Ok, next week on 20/20, we'll just do just that".
JYoung1138 4 months ago
@JYoung1138 "It sounds to me like you didn't even watch THIS video"
Other than my accurate description & an exact quote?
Your detective skills are somewhat lacking.
festdir 4 months ago
@festdir Selectively quoting me to change my meaning, how quaint.
You wanted to detective work, here are the facts:
You complained that he didn't debate Moore.
I pointed out that he did in the episode that followed this one which he promoted at the end of the clip.
JYoung1138 4 months ago
@JYoung1138 "Selectively quoting me to change my meaning"
Whining about 'context', from an exact & accurate quote....not surprising.
Do tell, how did I 'change your meaning'?
"Stossel didn't debate Moore"
He interrupted the actual discussion to intersect his own commentary.
Or is the actual video, much like an actual quote, simply 'not fair' when it shows you to be a goddamn moron?
Lemme know if there is any other examples of reality being unfair to you.
festdir 4 months ago
@festdir LOL!
"Unfair"?
I feel so persecuted.
LOL!
I did point out specifically that at the end of THIS video, Stossel plugs the next episode, where he does do a one on one with Moore.
Which one would know if they watched this video all the way to the end.
I'm just trying to figure what your argument is other than "Stossel didn't debate Moore" which wasn't what this video was about.
But thank you, that was the best laugh I've had today.
JYoung1138 4 months ago
@JYoung1138 "Unfair"
Is that not the implication of your baseless & pathetic attempt to blame 'context' for an accurate & exact quote?
"Stossel plugs the next episode"
I am commenting on THIS video....in THIS video's comment section. Not that your commentary isn't oh, so intriguing.
"best laugh"
Yes, your comments are entertaining.
Glad you can see that when I quote them back to you.
festdir 4 months ago
JYoung1138 4 months ago
@JYoung1138 "amused that this upsets you"
I am not upset, I find your comments highly entertaining....as mentioned previously.
Again, I am commenting on THIS VIDEO, in THIS VIDEO'S comment thread.
Not that your description of a different video isn't captivating.
Please, do continue.
festdir 4 months ago
@festdir No point in doing so as I don't think that's what this video was about so I don't care.
JYoung1138 4 months ago
@JYoung1138 "No point"
Sure there is. Namely my amusement at seeing you trying to use a DIFFERENT VIDEO to explain away the content of YOUR video.
"don't think that's what this video...."
It doesn't matter what you think....the video SHOWS Stossel interrupting Moore by splicing in his commentary. The video SHOWS Stossel citing a youtube clip as 'evidence'.
Not that the journey into your personal world of make believe isn't completely enthralling.
I await with bated breath your next comment!
festdir 4 months ago
@festdir
LOL!
Right. You're not angry but yet you continue to use negatively charged terms.
Still don't care.
Ok, I love you! Bye Bye!
JYoung1138 4 months ago
The more i see Micheal Moore, the more he reminds me of Kevin Trudeau. They just scam people in different ways
2727taterbug 5 months ago
Micheal Moore is just a selfish egocentric fat fuck who would make up lies just to get people on his side.
Shonenut213 6 months ago
@Shonenut213 "make up lies"
Really? Like what? I didn't see Stossel expose any lies....even when in the midst of a 'debate', with this horribly edited video.
festdir 5 months ago
WOW that was alot of black people in Cuba.
Ryukikon 6 months ago
Holy shit, 80 murders a day! Damn.
ConRevolutionary 6 months ago
LOL, look at his fucking nose and his fat sagging face...aging hippie liberal douche ultra.
IndividualParties 6 months ago
Love how he switched the story from Cuba to Britain and Canada. Hang it up, fat fuck.
Darkrunner1975 7 months ago 12
@Darkrunner1975 He switched because Stossel was a couple of questions away from exposing the fat lying fuck, who cut a deal with Fidel to make Cuba and himself look good in order to sell movie tickets. This movie is so staged and absurd to those of us who actually lived there is sadly comical.
Laverdadduele1 6 months ago
Typical Michael Moore. Start presenting actual facts to him and he puts his tail between his legs and runs a way. Notice how after a few facts, he just didn't want to talk about cuba anymore. Time to change the subject. Note to Michael. If you don't want to get spanked, stick to college campuses where the kids don't know enough to call you on your pathetic BS.
MrFreeLibertarian 7 months ago
HE never had a point. Neither do you. If something doesn't fit your perception, you interpret it as an insult. Moore used a stilted version of things to present his case, and so did Stossel, yet you both wish to view the latter as 'factual' because it suits your limited perspective.
Hope you're not feeling too insulted at this point. :)
chokkan7 7 months ago
davidus3,
No.
Was that supposed to come off as clever? If that was your intention, add another failure to the long list of same that is your life....
chokkan7 7 months ago
@chokkan7 His point still stands, and all you did was insult him.
PivotB3stZ 7 months ago
Moore may not be completely candid in his recitation of the facts, but this corporate shill who's grilling him (it's certainly not an interview) wears his heart on his sleeve, and his heart has been bought by his corporate masters. Unbiased media (or even left-wing media, for that matter), my ass - this was a well-planned character assassination, nothing more.
chokkan7 7 months ago
@chokkan7 Except, perhaps, for the facts? No?
davidus3 7 months ago
No, the private sector doesn't do better in everything. But otherwise, I pretty much agree with the rest of what Stossel says.
01Ubermensch 7 months ago
Moore, you're as stupid as Sean Penn. Claim that Venezuela and Cuba are awesome, from the comfort of your Malibu beach house.
Shut the fuck up. You have no credibility with anyone, fatboy.
You won't move there will you, Michael Moore.
Eat shit.
Darkrunner1975 7 months ago
@Darkrunner1975
love it. michael moore is a little dirty fucker. well, not little.
ImNeilPatrickHarris 7 months ago
Michael Moore said that Cuba was a Red herring and that we should focus on Britain and Canada. But by doing so, he is ESSENTIALLY creating a red herring to distract Stossel from the actual topic: Cuba. And those two aren't excellent red herrings, either.
AnarchisThinker 7 months ago
The quality of health care and life expectancy of some Latin American countries is really beginning to catch up with those in developed nations (Cuba, Chile, Costa Rica). The difference is that most managed to do it through democracy.
luizcadu 7 months ago
Stossel is s shill for big corporate interests.
He gets paid to carry water for them and they like him because he dutifully recites their propaganda.
And he gets millions every year for his obedience.
It's not too complicated.
jcapatelli 8 months ago
The quality of Costa Rica at some massive (14% I think) spending of total GNP - Come on, American healtch care is appalling.. I live in a country where we spend - 8% of GDP on FULL Medicare for all citizens, you pay nothing seeing a GP.
Perhaps this is the last step for US conservatives - 'There's no problem, I see no problem, carry on'.
Rogov8 8 months ago
if you sponsor an elderly relative to come from another country you're supposed to be financially responsible, but time and time again I've seen those relatives- who never paid a cent into the system- get signed up for Media-Cal. They get everything at the expense of the taxpayer.
bkrdave2000 8 months ago
If Canadian healthcare is so great, why do so many Canadians find it necessary to cross the border to see a doctor?
It's a fallacy that people don't get healthcare in the US. A hospital is liable for a fine of $50,000 if they refuse to see someone in the ER. A big problem stems from giving "free" treatment to people who not only never paid into the system, but have not even come here legally. Even dome who enter legally are draining the system- if you sponsor an elderly parent from another...
bkrdave2000 8 months ago
Moore is a fat sack of malicious lies.
ecuadmail 8 months ago
You've heard the doctors themselves (right after the 3:16 minute mark: "I personally did SEVENTY TO EIGHTY ABORTIONS A DAY". If an ABORTIONIST in the USA did that, he'd make at least $2,000,000 a year. In other words, abortionists MIGHT do TWENTY A WEEK in the USA. The whole socialized medicine scheme is to murder "useless feeders", one of the central aims of global government under Masonic puppets like Obama.
StopVoteFraudAmerica 8 months ago
Americans like Stossel of course will lie about Cuban health care. The US media is generally appallingly jingoistic and inaccurate. Cuban ex-patriots will portray everything under Castro as horrific to promote a US military solution there. However if you talk to objective Cubans they will tell you the health system works, but those who can pay the bribes will jump lines and get quicker service. That is not a small issue.
indoctus41 9 months ago
Congratulations, America! Your people live a WHOLE YEAR longer than poverty-stricken Cubans!
dicknut17 9 months ago
@dicknut17 america has the best quality health care in the world.everyone in england may have health insurance but the quality of care they receive is not as good.just like canada where the average wait time to see a doctor is 9 hours.the longest i have had to wait is 20 minutes.
cassidy99ful 8 months ago
@cassidy99ful Yet despite this "best quality health care", Americans still only live a mere, single year longer than Cubans on average. Maybe the reason for that is because Americans are feeding themselves Whoppers for breakfast, lunch and dinner and then shooting each other in the face 'cause their onion rings got cold. Canadians' life expectancy is 81 and in the US it's 76. That fact came from the CIA web site, btw.
dicknut17 8 months ago
@dicknut17 you do know that the people that report those life expectancy statistics just go by the gov''ts word don't you? so if you believe what the cuban gov't tells you maybe you should get your head out of your arse.
cassidy99ful 8 months ago
@dicknut17 The FDA and all the Big Pharmaceutical companies are in bed together. Its illegal to even advertise something to treat / cure an illness unless its an actual synthetic patented product from a Pharmaceutical company. Infact most of big pharm isn't interested in researching for CURES <-- at all ..they simply want to establish "treatments" ..and label more and more things as "diseases" so it falls under the government enforced laws that they can profit from.
Wonglow 8 months ago
Not once did Michael Moore EVER say that Cuba had better health care than the United States.
In fact, according to his list, it's clearly presented that Cuba is below the US in health care (Cuba is 39, US is 37 or 38, I believe). According to this list, despite patients STARVING, Cuba is still only slightly worse than the US.
What Moore did was show that even in Cuba, a communist, third world country, citizens had the right to decent, free health care. In the US, it is not free.
Bigdadda20 9 months ago 2
@Bigdadda20 Hahahaha Im sorry you said decent healthcare, have you been to public hospitals in third world countries? I am a Brazilian American who goes to central Brazil every year in the Mato Grosso state, and the public hospital is atrocious i went in there and I felt like I was walking into a horror movie, and Brazil is a corrupt democratic government. Only rich people go to the nice private hospitals.
opiumthoughts 9 months ago
Comment removed
Bigdadda20 9 months ago
Mega asks:
"How in the HELL did he get those Americans into Cuba??"
VoiceByMega 9 months ago
"your so 13th century" mm
Michael looks like he devoured the 13th century!
Commie blowhard.
jpritch2 10 months ago 2
How this slob's film's are called "documentaries" is beyond me.
hoopdoop71 10 months ago
If anyone thinks that Cuba's healthcare is free they need to do their homework. 58 cents out of every peso cuban workers earn goes to the government. Oh and, average salary is 200 pesos a month = 20 US Dollars. Moore is a moron.
Laverdadduele1 10 months ago 2
Moore is such a joke.... But whats even funnier is people that take hime seriously!
jarogehotmail 10 months ago 4
Medical bills are still one of the biggest reasons for personal debt in America. I would rather get sick in Canada with our flawed socialized health care system then get sick in America.
TheSuese 10 months ago
Stossel always uses a sarcastic tone in his pieces . I'm glad he went to faux where he belongs
jmck53 11 months ago
I was born and raised in the UK and trained and worked there as an RN before coming to the US. Personal experience has shown me that for all its flaws the US system is vastly superior to socialized medicine. Comparing the standard of care here to there is like comparing the Ritz Carlton to some flea bag motel. The British NHS was already floundering in 1988 and the horror stories since are legion. An adult make is 600% more likely to die of prostate cancer there.
bkrdave2000 11 months ago 29
@bkrdave2000 I hear a lot of the same thing you said from Canadian doctor about their system.
quirose 8 months ago
@bkrdave2000
I saw the movie Sicko and as I understood as an non-Englisch speaking guy Moore didn't really criticize the abilities of the doctors but the insurance companies. Isn't it true that they do not want to give fat people an insurance ot try to get rid of their responsibility. What are your experiences? And what's an RN a registered nurse? That's what the online dictionary says.
WasGibtsLeute 5 months ago
@bkrdave2000
Your personal (anecdotal) experience means little or nothing, and doesn't entitle you to claim that "the US system is vastly superior". Please back up your claims with proper statistics and documented facts.(Wikipedia -Health care, OECD.org, etc ) and stop trying to mislead readers.
socamaestro 4 months ago
admittedly, I am not an opponent of socialized medicine, but I fucking hate Michael Moore
EnergizerBunny804 11 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Michael Moore is fucking RIGHT!!!!! All you commenters are the idiots.
craigjonesslipknot5 11 months ago
@craigjonesslipknot5
Or maybe you should actually study what either side says and come to your own conclusions without any gods, imaginary or not.
Finlandcitizen 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Finlandcitizen ok here is the other side: And i quote, "Michael Moore has to be the ugliest person alive. Amirite?". Yes, I'm really going to study that comment..............
craigjonesslipknot5 11 months ago
@craigjonesslipknot5 Then by all means, you should move to Cuba.
WindsorFox 11 months ago
@WindsorFox well that might be a bit hard........
craigjonesslipknot5 11 months ago
doctors please dont work on michael moore..give him a plane ticket
wogdoggy 11 months ago 30
moore is astonishingly dumb
slickbtk 11 months ago 3
Michael Moore has to be the ugliest person alive. Amirite?
karozans 11 months ago 5
03:19 EVERYBODY LIES,moore and this doc,you don´t have enough time in a day to do that,unless you´r doing them with both hands simultaneously and...no wait,impossible
corporacionmonstruo 1 year ago
Look Elitist like "John Stossel" most probably has an expensive Health Care Plan & of course he's going to insinuate that America has the better Health Care!!!Yes??What good is it for our Country to have such great health care system...if...they will not treat you or your loved one's because you couldn't afford it??Tell that to everyone that has been sent packin' cause they were told by the Hospital or Emergency Clinic that they could not help them!!!
CaptAntiGravity 1 year ago
@CaptAntiGravity That is why Stossel is trying to educate us on how government is stealing our money. He wants us to keep our money so that we all can have the same health care plan that he has.
Your last sentence doesn't make any sense at all. It is currently illegal for a hospital turn away anyone if they are in need of health care regardless of weather they can pay or not.
karozans 11 months ago
@CaptAntiGravity
As a libertarian, he hates the current system.
Finlandcitizen 11 months ago
this is an absolute joke, cuba????? I'm not in favor of national health care, but he should have at least gone to canada to make his point, why Cuba??some piece of dirt third world country??? everyone knows cubas health care is a joke, yeh, its equal all right, everyone gets the same crap service
packerfan748 1 year ago
Hey Ezra - I appreciate you like koolaid but why don't you educate yourself. Go see what CUBAN doctors think of cuba care:
therealcuba. com/Page10.htm since you don't believe this film.
don't be a blind follower - it will end badly like the people in Greece - where "amputations are cheaper" than giving diabetics proper shoes.
Don't be so stupid.
hcnoreform 1 year ago
And like our own government has never lied or hidden anything from us???He makes it seem as if capitalism has no flaws and everyone just living it up fine as dandy right now... Stossel is a right winger who doesn't want to see progress with our health care system...That is why he works for fox news now.And Sicko was a great film about our right to have health care for all,according to our needs and not greed..Stossel can refute as much as he wants but it won't change my mind about health care...
Ezra1977 1 year ago
@Ezra1977 I think I counted 5 Leftist hot-words and phrases in your comment... anyone else find more?
'Progress' apparently means socialist medicine for the rich, poverty and starvation for the poor? Health care is no more a right than is a bullet-proof vest or a glass of water. You have to get your own, man.
.. according to our needs, not greed..? OK Karl. Quit being greedy with your property, and send it to me... I'm broke, and need all the wealth you can share right now, and maybe more.
rsimpson69 1 year ago
i had to watch sick in my 9th grade health class. and majority of the kids believed everything in it. indoctrination!
holyshitdude91669 1 year ago 4
NO transplants in AZ for the POOR says Medicaid - now, TWO PEOPLE ARE DEAD.
We pay taxes our whole lives, into these socialist programs (SS, medicare/aid) and now they are BROKE and BROKEN.
ASK WHO denies more claims than ANYONE? US GOVT. We were sold BO care on the premise private ins cos were mean and only out for PROFITS.
HOW CAN THIS BE?
Now the GOVT is denying LIFE SAVING surgery.
Who will the poor complain to now that BO care is letting the poorest of the poor die?
WAKE UP!
hcnoreform 1 year ago
Moore does a film purporting to show how SUPERIOR Cuban healthcare is to that in the U.S., yet when he's pinned down on conflicting evidence FROM CUBA, Moore then says the whole Cuban healthcare issue is a red herring (i.e., an irrelevant distraction)? Could the man be any more of an lying ass?
horgensnot 1 year ago 5
Comment removed
rayrayholland 1 year ago
You got to love all the liberal media promoting 3rd world healthcare as the model for our universal plan. Pelosi should just go crawl back under her rock with Reid & Obama!
joe035 1 year ago
Wow, next time Ill be just like Moore, and when someone presents me with a tough question Ill just laugh and say ooh you are so 13th century hahahahahaha. WTF???? what kind of an answer was that? Well tell me what does gvt. do better more efficient in comparison to private sector?
samuils 1 year ago
Oh for the love of G'd of course the sections shown in the movie are for elites only. It is economically impossible for a developed nation to provide such a health care if it is ran by government. I grew up in USSR, which was far stronger than Cuba economically, and you can trust me our health care system was total garbage. And if anyone thinks that Cuba has this system for everyone, then you are just a fool who cant even do a simple math
samuils 1 year ago
MOORE GOT ROCKED!! PUT DOWN THE PUDDING MR AMERICA HATER!!
RonaldReaganRocks1 1 year ago 2
UPDATE! Wikileaks releases info that "Sicko" was BANNED in Cuba for being "mythical," and "inaccurate" about the Cuban health care system.
YesWeCantaloupe 1 year ago 3
There are many great Cuban doctors. They live in Florida!
tl1358 1 year ago 5
TVZ - how did I can the "entire world" socialist? I just mentioned Cuba and said "another socialized" country FALLS apart (read the paper at all - watch any news programs when you're zombing out?) Google PIIGS
Google EURO CRISIS
Google FORCED AUSTERITY
Google NIH cuts Millions of procedures/cuts $29 BILLION from HC
Greece says "amputations are cheaper" than special shoes for diabetics.
Oh you say - Japan is doing "great"? - LOOK UP THEIR NATIONAL DEBT(hint don't look lower than first
comon
choclabs3 1 year ago 3
Michael Moore is fat, stupid and lazy. He prostitutes lies for his own personal gain. He exploits capitalism for his riches, only to denounce it at the same time.
Yes, Michael - please tell us how Cuba is doing today? Fidel recently admitted he has to fire 500,000 govt employees, cut care/costs, etc -
As Fidel said - "the cuban model no longer works for cuba"
Another socialized country FALLS apart!
How many times does this have to happen before you LIBERALS LEARN - it's a failure!
choclabs3 1 year ago 5
@choclabs3
you have just called the entire world, except for US, socialist. There are many very successful countries in the world (japan for example) who have this so called "socialized" medicine, and they are not falling apart. US is falling apart very quickly though...
TVZombie3000 1 year ago
Here is the truth about cuba from cuban DOCTORS:
therealcuba. com /Page10.htm
Moore "if there is anything they do right in cuba, it's health care". Wow, this guy is just stupid. Fat and stupid. He actually believes WHO rankings?
Anyone that believes WHO rankings - you need to put down the koolaid and THINK, research - actually pick up a book and turn off Jerry Springer.
sheetheads 1 year ago
Moore was duped...lol Although I do appreciate his stance on other issues.
kmcl11 1 year ago
Here's another Stossel lie. He said that Moore claims the CIA thinks Cuban heatlh care is pretty good. That's true. The CIA claims that compared to all South/Central American health care it is the best. Stossel then inserts a comparison with the US that the CIA didn't do, and to which Moore never said they did. I'm not saying Stossel isn't a clever liar, but he's still a liar. It's right there for all to see if you're smart enough to see it.
indoctus41 1 year ago
@indoctus41
You know, you might like to try actually watching the clip before commenting.
Moore definitely states in the video that the CIA said that says that Cuba has a "pretty good" Health Care system.
Stossel says he checked with the CIA which said that they said no such thing.
JYoung1138 1 year ago
@JYoung1138 That's not what Stossel said. He said Moore said Cuban health care is BETTER than the US. "pretty good" and "better" are not synonyms.
indoctus41 1 year ago 2
@indoctus41
The whole point of Sicko is that Michael Moore thinks that the US Healthcare system is failing as whole and needs to have Government run Healthcare.
And part of his argument is that Cuba does it right or "better" than the US as (allegedly) everyone is covered and everyone gets good Health Care.
The problem is that Moore undercuts his argument by using Cuba as an example of "doing it right" because he happily laps up whatever the Cuban Government tells him.
JYoung1138 1 year ago
@JYoung1138 Paragraph 1 - I agree. Para 2 - Not exactly. In the movie he clearly shows WHO rankings: Cuba ranked #39 and the US #37. Para 3 - What? You cannot develop an argument based on the fact that if you don't agree with the opposing viewpoint then they must be lying (Cuban gov't, WHO, Doctors w/o borders, etc). That's a logical fallacy. It also assumes the US gov't tells the truth. Say what??
indoctus41 1 year ago
@indoctus41
Answer me this then, if Moore doesn't believe that Cuba has better Healthcare, then why did he devote a large part of his movie to their system and says in the clip above that they get it right?
And it's interesting that Moore(and you) is willing to believe our Government (the CIA) about Cuban Health care when he's been skeptical of them in the past.
You can't have it both ways.
JYoung1138 1 year ago
@JYoung1138 It's not 'having it both ways' to cite the CIA on Cuba's health care. The CIA may be in the propaganda business, but they're not in the business of propagandizing for Cuba. When they confirm that Cuba has the highest life expectancy in the region-- as they have-- it's a grudging concession for them. Stossel instead goes to a guy who runs an anti-Castro website; not exactly the New England Journal of Medicine. Stossel cherry picks information to make his arguments.
TonyWilson1000 1 year ago
@JYoung1138 This one is easy to answer. The CIA/US have no interest in extolling the virtues of Cuban health care. Nevertheless, the CIA compared it favorably with other poor nations. It's the same as if a parent claims his child is not very bright, we would believe the parent who would have no desire to have a dumb kid, but if the parent claims his issue is smarter than Einstein could ever hope to be, then we don't believe the parent and suspect self-aggrandizement.
indoctus41 1 year ago
@indoctus41
Except that the CIA claims that they didn't as per the video.
Can you provide a source for your claims other than Michael Moore?
Because I just did a quick look at the CIA World Factbook (it's online) and there's nothing about Health Care in the entry for Cuba.
(There is in the entry for Canada)
JYoung1138 1 year ago
Babies with down syndrome shouldnt be born. Also. The fact that Cuba's such a poor country is because America blocks trade. If America didnt block trade, Cuba would be doing FINE.
And you americans dont like socialists, do you? So why not let them starve there?
Cuba arent the bad guys, you are.
HawK047 1 year ago
@HawK047 Nonsense! Cuba is perfectly free to trade with anybody else in the world (except US).
ssmusic214 1 year ago
@ssmusic214 So much for freedom.
indoctus41 1 year ago
@indoctus41 And What' d' hell trade embargo has to do with freedom?
ssmusic214 1 year ago
@ssmusic214 An American company, with some exceptions, cannot have business dealings with Cuba, nor can any American travel to Cuba. The basis for the embargo, in place for 50 years, is that "they're not a democracy", although the US has supported brutal monsters like Pinochet and even Sadaam Hussein who didn't have democracies. The difference was these monsters were friendly to the US. I would classify that as a restriction of freedom, no question about it. Next.
indoctus41 1 year ago
@indoctus41 So what? Cuba is still free to trade with anybody else in the world. So blaming US for Cuban economic disaster is ridiculous.
And US Embargo was imposed not because "they're not a democracy", but of b/c of Cuban policies of "exporting revolution" and support of guerrilla movements in foreign countries.
ssmusic214 1 year ago
@ssmusic214 The US had 60 years to turn Cuba into a democratic paradise and by the 50's there was widespread disease, poverty, illiteracy, you name it. Even a dictatorship under Batista. No use whining now that they took another path.
indoctus41 1 year ago
@indoctus41 Another communist fairy tale. Before Castro the travel was free between US and Cuba, but the Cubans weren't fleeing by 1000s risking their lives swimming on the rafts through 90 miles of open ocean infested with sharks just to get out from there.
ssmusic214 1 year ago 3
@ssmusic214 A red herring. Free travel has nothing to do with the situation of Cuba under Batista.
indoctus41 1 year ago
@indoctus41 No kidding! All those millions of people who scaling Berlin Wall being shot at, walking through mine fields, under barbed wire, drowning in the ocean trying to escape from communism are doing it just for fan......
ssmusic214 1 year ago
@ssmusic214: I'm not sure if you are intentionally misunderstanding me or not. In either case, there is no reason to continue as you seem unacquainted with Cuban history other than through the eyes of your preferred propagandists. Adios.
indoctus41 1 year ago
@indoctus41 Kido! Your "acquaintance" with history consists of Michael Moore movies
and other kinds of leftist propaganda specifically designed to brainwash dupes like yourself.
ssmusic214 1 year ago
@ssmusic214 Wrong again. No surprise there.
indoctus41 1 year ago
@indoctus41 Stupid child! I know more about life under totalitarian dictators than you will ever learn for the rest of your life.
ssmusic214 1 year ago
@ssmusic214: You hide your knowledge well.
indoctus41 1 year ago
@indoctus41 How would you know? You are just a brainwashed "useful idiot" who never tasted reality of life under communist dictators and only repeating standard leftist propaganda lines like mindless parrot.
ssmusic214 1 year ago
@ssmusic214 Consider yourself blocked.
indoctus41 1 year ago
@indoctus41 Your brains have been blocked by leftist propaganda long time ago.
ssmusic214 1 year ago
Michael Moore doesn't deal in facts.
YourNameHere1212 1 year ago
@YourNameHere1212 You state: "Michael Moore doesn't deal in facts." Well not your facts anyway.
indoctus41 1 year ago
@indoctus41 That's true, he ignores most facts and cherry picks a few out-of-context facts to paint a lie in order to sell a fictional movie to make money.
YourNameHere1212 1 year ago
@YourNameHere1212 Example??
indoctus41 1 year ago
Stossel is one of the few critical thinkers in the media. Actually no one else even comes to mind.
hunterstl 1 year ago 2
@hunterstl I think he is the ONLY critical thinker in the media.
TheAgeofReason17941 1 year ago
There's actually 3 rings of health care in Cuba, 1 for outsiders, the best, 2 for Cuban government, the second best, 3 for regular cubans, the worst. Trust me you don't want to try the 3rd, the pictures don't describe how bad it really is.
zxcv73 1 year ago
And this is what you get from American Healthcare. 2 million Americans forgoing any further cancer treatment because they can't afford it.
Provinces that don't cover drugs, outside of the poor and seniors, on avg. only pay $100/month to get private insurance for drugs/dental/eye care.The vast majority, over 95% get ALL expensive drugs needed for care.PERIOD! Those other 5% can apply through other means through their doctor to get covered.
BTW, article is 2 years old, user fee scrapped choco.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
Now Greece says to their diabetic patients - special shoes costs too much, "amputations are cheaper".
news.yahoo. com/s/dailycaller/20101011/pl_dailycaller/greekhealthsystemoptsforamputationasmoneysaver
Note the space in the URLs at .com . This is what you get from Socialized care.
In Canada you need TO PAY for private insurance or you won't get expensive drugs to save your life while increasing "user fees"...
thestar. com/News/Canada/article/305140
this is from a canadian paper.
choclabs3 1 year ago
Does Moore know where he gets the money to do his propaganda movies? truth vs fiction = mooreexposed . com
Thetruthishere11 1 year ago
@Thetruthishere11 Interesting that the people who put together the mooreexposed site don't show any references. No proof of anything. It's just unsupported garbage. If you go the the Moore site, he backs up all his claims with documents from various sources. Then again when was the last time a Republican quoted a source. 'Nuf said.
indoctus41 1 year ago
"Cuba is a red herring." A good portion of Sicko is about health care in Cuba! The translation for "Cuba is a red herring" is "Stossel, you are correct about Cuba, but I am not about to admit the fallacy of my argument on national tv."
barley96 1 year ago
Stossel interviews anti-Castro rebels, (who BTW benefit from the adversity between the US and Cuba because they send their US dollars back to Cuba where it's worth much more.) So why should we believe them? We never get that. We do get Stossel saying 'Why should I believe you?' It's a clever one-sided rant unless you're smart enough to see through it.
PhilabustaBlue 1 year ago
@PhilabustaBlue No different than Moore's movie Sicko.
barley96 1 year ago 2
Micheal Moore is a communist straight up. Either that or he just hates America.
saper321 1 year ago
Comment removed
ALEXANDRERAMIRO 1 year ago
some hospitals in the US were dropping sick people out in the street because they didnt have health insurance, so whats Stossels point , that were a littile better than a third world poor country
jz580500 1 year ago
@jz580500 We know you're lying because you're either unable or unwilling to be specific. Generalities and vagueness do not support a logical argument.
tripleheshy 1 year ago
@tripleheshy, what jz580500 also fails to realize that simply dumping sick people who need treatment on the streets is illegal in the U.S. If he knows of specific hospitals doing that why isn't he reporting it to the proper authorities?
PHATHCOX 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Stossel, by and large a stranger to truth, is trying to compare a health care system of an impoverished nation under an intense embargo by the US with the US itself, the richest nation on earth.
That very fact that it is possible to make comparisons and discuss which is better belies his argument. In relation to other rich nations (Germany, France, etc) who have the resources and a socialist health care system, US health care is a pathetic joke.
indoctus41 1 year ago
@indoctus41 Can you back that up?
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
@GoingGoingGalt No, they never can. It makes for a good hit and run sound bite though.
tripleheshy 1 year ago
@indoctus41 Then tell me Canadian one why two of your politicians,Danny Williams and Brenda Stronach, came to the God forsaken shithole that is the US for their treatment/surgery?? I hope your family watches as you die waiting in line like some pathetic health care deli. Having your name picked out of a shoe box???? That to me is incredibly pathetic, not to mention hilarious.
tripleheshy 1 year ago
@indoctus41
Correction, Michael Moore was making the comparison and saying that the Cuban health care system was BETTER than the US health care system.
Stossel was refuting that claim.
JYoung1138 1 year ago 30
@JYoung1138 In the movie Moore showed the WHO ratings: Cuban health care 39th, US 37th (WHO). Last time I looked the higher the number the worse the rating. Next.
indoctus41 1 year ago
@JYoung1138: Moore NEVER said Cuban health care is better than the US. STOSSEL SAID MOORE SAID THIS. Also take a look at the hospital for Cubans - no doctors, nurses, staff of any kind. How believable is that??? If you 'smuggle' a video out of Cuba how can you confirm what is on the video. Is that even a hospital? Is it even Cuba?? Come on people. THINK!!!
indoctus41 1 year ago