Wow!!! It is amazing that so many comments on the question of faith have been wrote. What has me more frustrated, is that the clay wants to get the glory. If God is the potter, and he holds all things in his hands. Everything is a gift, we have nothing to boast in. If anyone puts their faith in Christ before they are born again or brought to Spiritual Life by God. You do have something to boast in. If you chose God, that is (your) glory.
Faith is the evil that it proclaims not believing in it is. (1 Timothy 2:12) (1 Samuel 15:3) (Exodus 22:18) (Psalm 137:9) (Judges 19:25-28) (Romans 1:27) (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5) (Genesis 22:2) (Ephesians 5:22) (1 Peter 2:18) (Deuteronomy 25:11-13) (Deuteronomy 4: 2) (Leviticus 18:22) Fuck you and everything you stand for, religion.
the gift of the "ability to do that" IS GRACE, look in your strong's grace is the "divine influence on the heart, and the evidence of that influence in our lives" grace is the gift or presence of God "by"(which is delivered) "through" (the avenue to us) through faith. salvation by grace through faith does not work in the sense of a/b/c then you're saved, the gifts, grace and faith works simultaneously to regenerate the man/woman, this video is odd.
@ele12957returns Sorry I didn't mean to leave the impression that you were boasting. I was saying that all faith comes from hearing. Hearing anything, but true hearing, that is true understanding, comes by the word of God. As far as boasting I have heard some Christians look down upon other Christian who have not grown yet in thier faith. I was blessed to hear the truth before I began hearing false doctrine, but it was not my doing, this is what I mean
Why is it unsurprising to me that you also deny the trinity? You are one who has not yet grown in faith my friend. I hope that you will eventually see the truth of the scripture regarding these issues. Nay ... I pray you will.
All men will in fact choose to reject God's message in their natural state. All men will in fact choose to reject God's message in their natural state. All men will in fact choose to reject God's message in their natural state.
@ele12957returns All that we are is of God. God gives us a brain, that is the ABILITY to learn, but it is up to us to use it and develope it. God give every man the ABILITY to believe, have FAITH, but it is up to us as to WHAT we LISTEN to as to what we are going to believe. So do not boast of your faith for God leads by his Spirit to the source of TRUTH for us to HEAR and CHOOSE to reject or believe
And this is the fundamental difference between a man-centered gospel, and a God-centered gospel.
An Arminian must conclude that Faith and Repentance are things man can do. The Calvinist says, "no", Grace, Faith, Salvation, and Repentance are all GIFTS from God, given to unregenerate sinners in order to bring them to spiritual life (a spiritual resurrection, if you will). In this, only the Calvinist can truly give thanks to God. Why? for the gifts of faith and repentance.
Wow!!! Great message!!! Makes it so anyone can understand Eph 2:8,9 and the best part it proves with 100% certainty that salvation is completely provided by God so He gets all the Glory !!! Man gets none!! Amen!.
I GOT it completely!!!!! Not enough sermons dealing with that word 'faith' and I have never seen a more informative or powerful video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got it by the grace of God I have had it for a long while and I wish more people would GET it :(
"Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." (John 20:30-31)
The gift is not faith. The gift (singular) of God is His Son. The gift is whom we believe thus have placed our faith IN. Faith has no merit, the gift of God Christ Jesus has all the merit. Paul is clear in Galatians on what the singular gift is which saved; Christ Jesus the promised gift.
Grace is unmerited favour from God in many areas of concern and necessity. Faith is one of those that is very important to note. Faith is by unmerited favour. Some might call it a free gift from God like any other good thing!!!!! There are many gifts from God but (THE) gift above all gifts is indeed Jesus Christ!!!! Obviously :)
We're not in the text in Galatians (which verse in Gal are you referring to anyways?), we are in the text of Eph 2 and Eph 2 clearly says that grace and faith are gifts of God. The Son is not even mentioned in Eph 2:8 that He may be the "that" which is not of ourselves.
If you can show us from the Greek text how McClarty is wrong, then I would be happy to listen. But just saying "the gift is not faith" without Scriptural or scholarly argument is a waste of typing and a waste of comment space.
The grace of God influences both the understanding and the affections. Warm affections without knowledge, can rise no higher than superstition; and that knowledge which does not influence the heart and affections will only make a hypocrite.
I've recently come on as a Pastor in a Baptist Church where the majority would not be Calvinists. I feel like I'm walking on a piece of thread across Niagara Falls. But I must be faithful to what I believe Scripture is telling us. HELP!
Calvinists are always accused of "going to the Greek", as if it's a bad thing, because it usually exposes the wrong theology that some people hold to. Why do Calvinists typically go to the Greek? Probably because we strongly believe that the word of God is the word of God and therefore take it very seriously and study it carefully!
I was brought up to believe i had done something to deserve God's grace ... it never really made sense to me. The recognition of Sovereign Grace has brought me to my knees in gratefulness. No more robbing God for me ... I now give Him all the glory and credit for my Salvation. Thank you Lord.
The good news is that God has unconditionally chosen his believers...he has not left them to their helpless sin bondaged selves to try and discover salvation:
Ephesians1:4
According as he has CHOSEN us in him before the foundation of the world...Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of HIS WILL
How much clearer do we need this people! God chose people according to the good pleasure of HIS OWN WILL!
Great explanation... but... so what? Even if Salvation, Grace and Faith are gifts from God... it's still up to me to open up the gift. Giving a gift to my children at Christmas only becomes a gift, when it's opened. Food only becomes food when it's eaten - also then Salvation, Grace and Faith, even though gifts, do not become gifts until received. Thank You God for these gifts - and I do receive them, but help me consistently make the right choices.
Hi snrdick1. What you've offered is typical Arminian theology. But, what's lacking from your paradigm is actual Biblical support. Nowhere in the Bible do we read that God offers gifts and then waits to see if anyone will receive them. The gifts of God are irresistible, given to particular people for particular purposes. To insist that you have to open God's gifts like a Xmas present, you need to provide a clear text (not just a verse) that explains that exchange.
The problem with your analogy is that: Men cannot by nature "open up the gift" because they are Spiritually dead in Sin rendering them deaf, blind & dumb to the truth. They have a natural inability to "open the gift" :
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned
1Cor.18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness..
37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
Where did you get the idea that "all that" was even referring to PEOPLE instead of all the glory & majesty & wealth & power that will come to Jesus Christ??
The 2nd half talks of PEOPLE - open call to Christ's kingdom.
Try reading it in context and you'll see that Jesus is clearly speaking of why people will NOT believe in him. Those who do believe in him do so because they were Given to him by the father. This is irrefutable:
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 ALL that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and HIM that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Read further on in context a few verses down to solidify the fact that John 6:37 is teaching that only those that the father gives Jesus will come to believe and follow him:
39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, THAT OF ALL which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Not only does the Father give Jesus his believers, but those believers are eternally secure - cannot lose their salvation!
I am very familar with how Calvinist twist the meanings of words such as all doesn't mean all and whomsoever doesn't mean whomsoever or that repent doesn't mean you can or that have faith doesn't mean you can unless God gives you the ability too etc. Or choose, doesn't mean you can. Human logic and faulty resoning all to support a faulty doctrinal believe system.
is one that makes Christ's death out be be a failure, implying that his blood sacrafice is only effective if man's "Free-will" decides it is. Sorry, Christs death did actually secure salvation for God's people and no actions of men can ever change or perfect that:
Calvinism says, ALL doesn't mean ALL and WHOMSOEVER doesn't actually mean WHOMSOEVER or the he THAT BELIEVETH doesn't mean he can BELIEVE at all. When God says to CHOOSE between life and death he really meant you don't have the ability to CHOOSE! When God tells man to REPENT, he can't unless God gives him the ability to! When God says he loved the world it doesn't mean the whole world, just a select few who have been chosen and he hates most of the world!
The scriptures will not allow you to read a humanistic freewill salvation system into those words.
You need to understand the outward call. This is universal as it goes out to every creature: Turn, repent and believe. But only those who receive the inward call of regeneration by the holy spirit will actually do it, the rest will reject it. It's ALL by God's will alone, Not mans will:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God
You got to be kidding me, Calvinism is nothing but human reason and logic!!! It twists the scriptures changes the meanings of words and its founder was a murderer and control freak. His life didn't represent the life of Christ at all. The church understood grace 1400 years before Calvin came to pervert it. Freewill is a solid biblical concept and the idea that only those who God regenerates can have faith is false. Numerous scripture talk about people resisting the Holy Spirit.
Whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.--Revelation 22:17
Acts 17:30 but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent. Why would God command ALL men to repent if only certain men have been chosen for salvation? 1 John 2:2 couldn't be any clearer, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." Calvinism is unbiblical heresy!
Freewill is a myth. If the Holy Spirit doesnt step in, no one will ever choose to believe! Just go out and preach the gospel on the streets. People will mock, curse, belittle and spit on you? Why? Is it because you failed to manipulate them into believing or activate their freewill goodness to choose? No, its because thay are DEAD in sin, natural enemies of the cross. Only a supernatural act can change them
Phil2:13 it is God which worketh in you both to WILL and to do of his good pleasure
Whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.--Revelation 22:17
Acts 17:30 but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent. Why would God command ALL men to repent if only certain men have been chosen for salvation? 1 John 2:2 couldn't be any clearer, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." Calvinism is unbiblical heresy!
I preach publicly all the time & sinners rejecting the gospel isn't proof that there isn't free will!
Ask yourself this question, what did Jesus preach that caused people to forget food & water and follow him into a desert to listen to all he had to say?
What was different about what he communicated about God then say the Pharisees? Look how many times the Pharisees were angry with him for eating and drinking with sinners? Notice how sinners came to Jesus, figure that out? Calvinist can't!
It is difficult for the Holy Spirit to work with a preacher who doesn't understand the gospel and God's love, it is easy to blame the sinner but Paul never prayer for sinners to hear he asked for prayer for himself so he would preach effectively. Paul believed Jesus who said the harvest is ready and great; failure to reach people most often lies with unbiblical preaching. I choose to believe the Bible and I get Bible results if you don't maybe you need to judge yourself.
There is nothing "difficult" for the Holy Spirit as you suppose. That is synergistic nonsense. Paul was on his way to Damascus to arrest Christians when his sudden miraculous conversion occured. Jesus did not ASK him for a freewill decision. Jesus simply commanded - Paul obeyed.
There is no failure to reach people. ALl is determined
2 Cor4:3-4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not
You Said: "I choose to believe the Bible and I get Bible results"
But you fail to give credit where its due. You can go ahead and pat yourself on the back , But biblical Christians give all the credit to God the Holy Spirit for their salvation. That means ALL the credit for their faith, repentance and good works. ...not their freewill decisions
Eph2:8 For by Grace are you saved through Faith and that is NOT OF YOURSELVES it is a gift of God and not of works, lest any man should BOAST
I gave credit to God because he is good and his word is true and works, to read into that I am not a Biblical Christian is typical of how Calvinist put their own personal spin on what they think they hear instead of what is said.
If the subject is freewill and God commands man to repent and the CHOOSE not to then that pretty much settles it!
Paul siad it was the goodnes of God that brought him to repentance Titus and Rom 2:4.
The Bible is full of examples of people disobeting God.
You already admitted you are not getting the same results that Jesus and Paul did when they preached yet you shift the blame to the sinner or the Holy Spirit when they Bible says God worked with them, U ignore the possiblity it is ur message. God doesn't annoint deception and he doesn't work with it to confrim his word.
You can continue to get zip results & waste ur time & preach a gospel that has no power or you can repent and seek God why ur preaching does not produce what HE said it would!
Why Does God command ALL men to Repent if ALL men cannot Repent?
Again, to demonstrate that sinners are helpless in and of themselves outside of Grace. Unless God grants repentamce, they cannot of themselves come to repentance:
The gospel is not some game in which you must psycologically manipulate, trick or talk people into believing. Without the Holy Spirit working in a person, the words are futile to the ears of a DEAD sinner.
1 Thessalonians 1:5
For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost
The law was givien to show that man was a sinner in need of a savior, now U use the message in the NT for the same purpose. God wouldn't have commanded man to repent if man did not have the ability to. To say it was just an outward call is silly and denies Gods intent & purpose & to say it was just to show that man couldn't do something is even more then silly.
The Law already demon strated mans hopelessness God din't need to do anymore yet you use the whole of the NT to try & make this point.
How did mankind fall? Did they have choice to disobey God? Where did they get the ability? Did the Holy Spirit or Satan give them the ABILITY to disobey? So now this ability to choose life over death and blessing over cursing isnt really a choice at all but something that gets program on our hard drive so the concept of choice as God says isnt real but an illusion.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED
There is nothing as unconditional as Gods love. There is nothing U can do concerning the fact that the sin of the world has been forgiven and Jesus was made sin so that we might be made righteous free from our works
Rom 4:5" But to him that works not but believes in Him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness"
All you can do concerning this wonderful truth is simply believe it by faith we have access into His grace Rom 5:1-3 and identify yourself with His love
Jesus wants you to know your innocence that was obtained in Christ. Man does not have to live in condemnation any more He would love to have you believe the great truth about what happened to you in the obedience, death and resurrection of Jesus on behalf of us all so that you can experience His resurrection power manifesting in your life no later than today.
God loves us and was willing to show it in this wonderful way.
Jesus wants God's people (sheep) to know that their innocence was obtained in Christ. He came to seek & save all that the father gave him. The promises are to God's called people alone whom he loves - not all of universal humanity. We preach to ALL creatures true, but There is a reason people never believe in their lifetime - and its not because you failed to manipulate or activate a supposed freewill mechanism in them to believe.
They were NEVER meant to believe my friend. Thats the reality
Ur God creates people who are never given the opportunity or the ability to repent and he sends them to hell for not repenting to burn for eternity and you call this just!
Paul is drawing an illustration from an Old Testament passage of scripture from Jeremiah 18:3-6. In that passage, God sent Jeremiah to the potter's house to learn a lesson. The potter was making a vessel and it was marred, so he remade it. The Lord spoke to Jeremiah and said, "O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel."
From this illustration, some people have drawn a wrong conclusion that the Lord creates some people evil and predestined to a life of damnation, not by their choice, but by God's. However, a closer look at the passage in Jeremiah and its context will show that is not the case.
First of all, the potter started to create a good vessel but the clay was marred. Whose fault was that? It wasn't the potter's fault. The clay was faulty.
So, the potter took this imperfect clay and, instead of discarding it, he refashioned it into another vessel that may not have been worth nearly as much as his original design, but was still useful.
Likewise, the Lord does not create certain individuals for destruction, However, some do become marred by their own choice, not due to any fault of the Creator. Instead of just removing them from the earth, the Lord will endure (v. 22) their atrocities.
He may even put them in great positions of authority such as He did with Pharaoh, so that He may manifest His great power through His victory over them and their devices. God can still use someone who has rejected Him in the same way that a potter can take a marred piece of clay and find some use for it.
It can be clearly seen that the Lord does not do these things against the will of the individual by continuing to read the context of Jeremiah's experience with the potter. In verses 7-10, the Lord says that when He purposes evil or good against a nation, if that nation repents, then God will change His plans for them. That undeniably states that our choice influences God's choice.
God doesnt change his plans according to mans freewill:
Isa46:10, Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done, saying My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure
Dan.4:35, And all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, but He does according to His will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth; and no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, What hast Thou done?"
The Lord did create certain individuals for destruction as evidenced by vs 22,23,24. Freewill had nothing to do with it. Romans 9 actually rejects the idea of freewill:
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth
Again, Rom 9 Cannot be understood by Jeremiah. The Clay in Rom is referring to individuals who were molded into vessels. VS 24 confirms: 22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the VESSELS OF WRATH fitted to destruction: 23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the VESSELS OF MERCY, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the JEWS only, but also of the GENTILES?
Actually Romans 9 cannot be understood by Jeremish18.
It must be understood by the full context of Romans 9 - Which clearly refers to 'individuals', not objects, chosen by election
7Neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all CHILDREN
11For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God ACCORDING TO ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated
God's love is Unconditional for his people (sheep) whom God chose out of the World and gave to Jesus:
Eph1:4
According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world...Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will
The SIn of God's people (sheep) has been forgiven not universal Humanity:
Haha so you are twisting God's word to make it say what you want. Whats those verses are saying is that God died for everyone, but only those who accept Him are saved.
His gift of salvation is available to everyone, but not everyone accepts it.
Im so happy that my God is big enough to save everyone. I feel sorry that you believe in such a small god
I'm so sorry that you believe that Jesus' blood did not succeed on the cross to actually save anyone because man has to perfect his blood sacrafice with their Sin Corpsed supposed Freewill.
A small God is one who rolls the dice and waits, hopes, pleads, prays for sinners to finally somehow resurect themselves from a sin dead state to believe.
Well actually I believe God is powerful enough to save ALL civilization as you do, the difference is that I hold to the scriptures teachings that God has CHOSEN to save a people out of civilization whereas your theology restricts God's power to save - to man's sinful will.
You basically idolize and exalt mans will above Gods. My Theology exalts God's will above mans. I agree that God knows what is going to happen; but because he wrote it all from the beginning to the end- Author & Finisher
No i do not basically idolize and exalt mans will above Gods. God gave man free will, exemplified in the garden when He gave Adam and Eve a choice and carried on to present day.
This is not a drama production that God wrote. You have some twisted and distorted view of the Bible. Arguments can be made about both sides, biblically.
Answer this: why did God create people with the sole purpose of going to hell? That contradicts His nature
P1) If you believe that Man's Sin WIll can direct, change or thwart God's actions...your ignorantly idolizing and exalting Mans will over God's. God gave Adam a freewill...but it is free no longer. The transgression of Adam & Eve was punished with Spiritual Death for all of mankind. Man is now in bondage to a Sin nature and cannot -in and of himself- desire, let alone choose God. If they were not, everyone would believe in Christ; but just go out and preach in the streets and see for yourself.
You are confusing two very different things. Foreknowledge and predestination. God foreknew all, He didnt choose who lived and who died. We choose to accept His gift. Anyone out there right now can choose to either accept or reject His offer. That is called free will.
Tell me how, without going against His nature, God can ordain certain people to go to hell
You still didnt answer the question...avoiding it perhaps?
God's will is going to happen, one way or another. He'll get it done through somebody. God doesnt control that person like a puppet, however. That is not biblical.
God says in the Bible that He has a PLAN for our lives, meaning something that He would like for us to do, not something He is forcing us to do.
No, God's will isn't some chance occurence my friend. It is set in Stone! He doesnt search to find somebody causally sinning and ride his cotails to get his will done. Scripture is Clear, God controls the hearts and minds of sinners for his purposes:
You Said: So basically you think that mission work does nothing..
Not at all. We are to Preach the Gospel to EVERY creature. But our words will only be accepted by God's sheep (elect). The rest will reject. When people do believe - we must give the Holy Spirit ALL the credit NOT mans freewill.
You asked: Why would we preach to those who have already made the choice to accept? that makes no sense
Good question. The elect have not "chosen" Christ until they hear the gospel. We preach to every creature to reach the chosen. They will hear our message, believe and be saved because the Holy Spirit has worked in them to change their dead natures.
Everyone else will reject it. Why do you think people reject the gospel? Its not because we failed to manipulate them with words.
And what is the source of their not likeing the idea of being accountable to some higher Power??
It all stems from our sin dead nature. Unless the Holy Spirit steps in to change our natures, we will always reject Christ whether our excuse is: "we dont like to be accountable to God"
"There is no evidence"
"I dont believe the bible is true" "Its all just religion"
The source is our internal Sin bondaged inability:
If your saved than Give the Holy Spirit 110% credit for regeneration - none your sin bondaged will.
Christians should look for every way possible to reject themselves and exalt God. How prideful for anyone to think that something within ourselves- outside of Sovereign Grace -can possibly bring on salvation and perfect Christs sacrafice. Freewiil is not only robbing God, it is contrary to all that is Christian. if we could "FREE-WILL" salvation - we could keep the law perfectly!
How in the world can you claim to give God ALL of the credit when you say that you "Chose" to accept something by your freewill? That is a contradiction. Your not giving God ALL (100%) of the credit. Your giving your freewill the credit and then saying your giving God the credit. But the Bible teaches that it is ALL a gift of Grace - Not a gift of freewill.
Works are a product of Will. If your faith is of your own Chosen will (outside of Grace) - then it is a product of works by definition.
But if God changes ones nature to desire them - its a different story. That's what happens at regeneration, sin natures are changed to desire Christ and Gods gifts.
Nope. God makes us Born again so we will be born again. God makes us born again so we WILL believe, repent and live the Christian life. Before becoming born again - no sinner desires to receive any gift from God. A DEAD man cannot desire life, its contrary to his nature.
What is ignorant to not heed Pauls teaching on the matter:
Ephesians 2 1And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world..
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the CHILDREN OF WRATH, even as others.
You were a child of Wrath before God changed you Ele12957!
You'll need to email me from this point forward....but you may not need to. The video here does a great job of explaining Ephesians 2:8 - maybe you should watch it.
Oh And if you think that resurrecting a DEAD sinners nature is an act of forcing someoner to believe.....well I say THANK GOD FOR GODS FORCEFULLNESS IN SAVING US!
I have no problem at all with that kind of force at all!
Where is the force in believing. It is active and not passive. We must believe in order to be regenerated.
Jn 5:24Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
God does have a plan for us, your right. But that Plan is not based on any supposed natural freewill of man. God's plan for us is based on his own good sovereign pleasure. For example, is it our plan for judgment day? No! If we had freewill to move God, there would be no Judgment day.
But God has ordained a day of Judgment without question:
2 Pet3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment
How can a spiritually dead, sin bondaged corpse Choose to accept any Gifts from God outside of Grace? Especially in light of the fact that scripture rejects Freewill towards God before regeneration:
But the natural man RECEIVETH NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither CAN HE KNOW THEM, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED.
Anyone out there can choose God right now - only if God the Holy Spirit first changes their SIn Dead nature first.
You said: They can accept it because he died on the cross.
No one can accept Jesus by any supposed natural Freewill. Thats just not biblical. Those who accept Christ do so only because they were first made born again by the Holy Spirit. They must be resurrected from their Dead sin natures first. Only those first born first can receive Christ:
P2) Not a drama production? That's the problem. Man thinks that his sinful "will" can not only direct, thwart or change God's actions...but that his "will" is the writer of History! You see how this cancer of humanism spreads? You basically dethrone God and make Man's will sovereign over All! Fact is-God is sovereignly in control. He is the Author and Finisher of ALL things - He doesnt roll the dice and leave anything to chance. If he did - well then we could say God makes mistakes. He doesnt!
You believe God is unable to remain sovereign if man has a free will and I don't nor do I believe the Bible teaches such.
You take scriptures such as God commanding everyone to repent and twist its meaning to say see not everyone has repented so therefore God is showing us we can't! This is ur tactic with most of Gods word. Where is God tells man to choose you say we can't but God says we can.
When God commands all men to do something - you want to read an assumed ability exists there, otherwise God would have never commanded. That is wrong. God commanded ALL to keep the 10 commandments perfectly. Why? We know that no man is ABLE to keep them perfectly, so why would God command it?
Answer - to show us the knowledge of our sin and the hopelessness of relying on anything within ourselves outside of God's grace to get right with God. Man's will cannot perfect God's grace.
P3) It pains many of us to admit that God is a potter and we are nothing but the Clay which he molds as he sees fit. God's purposes for the things he does are according to the good pleasure of his own WILL - to bring himself Glory and for the good of his people whom he chose. True God's nature is incapable of human sin, but remember that God ordained the MURDER of Jesus and used sinners to accomplish this for the good of his people. Can we know say that God's nature contradicts his actions? No!
Correction, God did ORDAIN - not only the crucifixion of Jesus - but also the sinners actions to accomplish this
Acts4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel DETERMINED BEFORE to be done.
Excuse me, the crucifixion of Jesus was technically a killing. This was the reason the Jews wanted the Romans to condem him. They did not want to violate the commandment: "Thou shalt not Kill"
Although Christians know that it was more than some mere killing - it was indeed a sacraficial atonement for the sins of Gods people which God ordained. Anyway you look at it - it was a DEATH ordained by God for Good.
It may have been "technically a killing" but we now know it was divine judgment for the sins of all mankind.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Romans 10:3
Paul says that THEY have not SUBMITTED themselves unto righteousness! Sounds like they had a choice and they rebelled.
All I can tell you is that Freewill is a myth. Man is naturally dead in sin and bondaged to his nature which cannot desire or choose God. Unless the Holy Spirit changes us, we will never, ever believe a word of the Gospel.
The point of preaching the gospel to all creatures is not to "soul win" as if salvation was some PsP2 game...the point is to reach God's sheep. Salvation belongs to God and he will save those whom he has chosen and prepared it for
No, were not robots. God doesnt force anyone to believe. He changes our natures so that we naturally DESIRE to believe and follow. If he doesnt first change our natures - our natural desire is to hate and reject Christ God. Big difference.
You are not being honest with the text, it says they did not submit not that they couldnt or wouldnt BUT they would not! The implied meaning is they could have if they so choose to do so but they choose not to.
Mark 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
Why did Jesus marvel at their unbelief? Surely if he knew they were incapable of believing he should not be surprised but expect it like you do?
Jesus was amazed and it says he went about teaching, why? Because faith comes from hearing the word of God and that is what they lacked. Turning it into something mystical goes against the context and other miracles where Jesus gave the person credit for having faith.
No, it didn't say all were drawn with the same effort, did it? So let's stick to the text.
It doesn't say anything other than you are drawn - it might have been for a millisecond. If the chance to respond is ignored, then all bets are off, it doesn't say God will continue to draw. Once God turns away, then salvation becomes impossible - John 6:44
The criteria set up naturally self-selects because the ones who don't respond are the smugly self-righteous.
John 6:44 is true, yet it doesn't say all men aren't drawn & they are as John 12:32 says, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
John 6:40 says God's WILL that "every one that seeth...and believeth ... may" yet you take "giveth" in v.37 as contrary to v.40! And you leave out HALF of v.37 "AND him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." So even the ungiven" (as you understand it) CAN STILL COME since ALL ARE DRAWN. John 7:37!
Jam4:8 - No problem here. This is a different context encouraging born again believers to resist the flesh. Even saved believers must combat the lusts of their flesh. Difference is that before people are saved - they are in complete bondage to the flesh
James4:1
From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Jame4:8 - Read back to the beginning of the chapter - the flesh of "believers" who posess the Spirit is what is in view here. The unsaved do NOT have the spirit:
James4:5
5Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The SPIRIT that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
When Believers sin in weakness to the Flesh - this is filthiness that must be repented of.
James4:1
1From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your MEMBERS?
It doesnt address unbelievers because unbelievers are Spiritually Dead, and unable to resist their flesh. That the problem, we cant trivilaize the fact that we are DEAD IN SIN before we are healed/regenerated through the spirit:
Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
John6:40 - Actually this verse is referring to the individuals in verse 39. These are the everyone that seeth & believeth:
39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of ALL WHICH HE HAS GIVEN ME I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John6:37 - Teaches that there is NO possibility that Jesus will reject those that the father gives him - because Jesus came to do his fathers will
1)No man *CAN* come to me unless the father draws.
Natural ability is being rejected. So unless the Father directly interjects to bring them to Jesus - no man CAN come to Jesus - that includes by any supposed freewill.
2) And *I will raise him up* on the last day
Those that the Father draws to Jesus will DEFINITELY be saved without question. ALL that the father draws to Jesus will DEFINETLY be raised up.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God -TRUE
But the natural man is DEAF to the Word of God because his nature is Dead in Sin. Until the Holy Spirit regenerates him - He will always be deaf to the Gospel. If this was not so, EVERYONE would have ears to hear
1Cor2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned
How do you know that the people who were healed under Jesus ministry were not saved? Especially in the light of the fact that those he healed did follow him:
That's cool
MyGodMyKing 1 week ago
Awesome video!
sjennings86 6 months ago
A Mormon commercial before a video like this? lol
oldsoulify 9 months ago
@oldsoulify
I got a Nissan commercial
lucky you ---I would have enjoyed the laugh had I got a Mormon commercial
ScottDaMoose 4 months ago
It's the same grammatical rule in French :-)
Uolive18 1 year ago
Wow!!! It is amazing that so many comments on the question of faith have been wrote. What has me more frustrated, is that the clay wants to get the glory. If God is the potter, and he holds all things in his hands. Everything is a gift, we have nothing to boast in. If anyone puts their faith in Christ before they are born again or brought to Spiritual Life by God. You do have something to boast in. If you chose God, that is (your) glory.
bigcpop74 1 year ago
Idontlikelobster 1 year ago
ptr.jim...thanks!!!
absdy24 1 year ago
@ele12957returns
-
What?
AgApE010 1 year ago
the gift of the "ability to do that" IS GRACE, look in your strong's grace is the "divine influence on the heart, and the evidence of that influence in our lives" grace is the gift or presence of God "by"(which is delivered) "through" (the avenue to us) through faith. salvation by grace through faith does not work in the sense of a/b/c then you're saved, the gifts, grace and faith works simultaneously to regenerate the man/woman, this video is odd.
MediumShag 1 year ago
@ele12957returns Sorry I didn't mean to leave the impression that you were boasting. I was saying that all faith comes from hearing. Hearing anything, but true hearing, that is true understanding, comes by the word of God. As far as boasting I have heard some Christians look down upon other Christian who have not grown yet in thier faith. I was blessed to hear the truth before I began hearing false doctrine, but it was not my doing, this is what I mean
AMATTEROFTRUTH 1 year ago
@AMATTEROFTRUTH
Why is it unsurprising to me that you also deny the trinity? You are one who has not yet grown in faith my friend. I hope that you will eventually see the truth of the scripture regarding these issues. Nay ... I pray you will.
All men will in fact choose to reject God's message in their natural state. All men will in fact choose to reject God's message in their natural state. All men will in fact choose to reject God's message in their natural state.
FillTheirVoid 1 year ago
@ele12957returns All that we are is of God. God gives us a brain, that is the ABILITY to learn, but it is up to us to use it and develope it. God give every man the ABILITY to believe, have FAITH, but it is up to us as to WHAT we LISTEN to as to what we are going to believe. So do not boast of your faith for God leads by his Spirit to the source of TRUTH for us to HEAR and CHOOSE to reject or believe
AMATTEROFTRUTH 1 year ago
And this is the fundamental difference between a man-centered gospel, and a God-centered gospel.
An Arminian must conclude that Faith and Repentance are things man can do. The Calvinist says, "no", Grace, Faith, Salvation, and Repentance are all GIFTS from God, given to unregenerate sinners in order to bring them to spiritual life (a spiritual resurrection, if you will). In this, only the Calvinist can truly give thanks to God. Why? for the gifts of faith and repentance.
rkg62976 2 years ago
Amen. To God be ALL the glory.
luxlucis777 2 years ago
Amen...God must gift us with the ability or we will never do it.
rainzion 2 years ago
Wow!!! Great message!!! Makes it so anyone can understand Eph 2:8,9 and the best part it proves with 100% certainty that salvation is completely provided by God so He gets all the Glory !!! Man gets none!! Amen!.
bornfromabove 2 years ago
Only True Christians were drawn by God, but most of our churches are filled with those called by a man.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
Great statement and so true! Can I use it?
bornfromabove 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Be my guest.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
Absolutely. Use it "at will." :-)
SBGGCA 2 years ago
great statement.
118min 2 years ago
By there FRUITS you will no them!
What are the Fruits?
Why am i told to "WORK" OUT MY SALVATION?
Why if im a thief, that im to WORK with my hands and to give the money to the poor?
Am i forgiven if i dont do such a thing?
Or am i a WORKER of lawlessness?
Greentipman 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
this video is awesome
PracticeMan69 2 years ago
Good video
BennyMetal7 2 years ago
I GOT it completely!!!!! Not enough sermons dealing with that word 'faith' and I have never seen a more informative or powerful video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got it by the grace of God I have had it for a long while and I wish more people would GET it :(
ashirly 2 years ago
I'm so tired of people saying your saved because you believe.
Pdrum2 2 years ago
"Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." (John 20:30-31)
shteve77 2 years ago
Amen
Pdrum2 2 years ago
The gift is not faith. The gift (singular) of God is His Son. The gift is whom we believe thus have placed our faith IN. Faith has no merit, the gift of God Christ Jesus has all the merit. Paul is clear in Galatians on what the singular gift is which saved; Christ Jesus the promised gift.
Watch 4 video's that refutes McClarty:
Calve Islam 5a: Ephesians 2:8-9 Epilogue
Calve Islam 5b: Ephesians 2:8-9 Epilogue
Calve Islam 5c: Ephesians 2:8-9 Epilogue
Calve Islam 5d: Ephesians 2:8-9 Epilogue
HeardLearned 2 years ago
Grace is unmerited favour from God in many areas of concern and necessity. Faith is one of those that is very important to note. Faith is by unmerited favour. Some might call it a free gift from God like any other good thing!!!!! There are many gifts from God but (THE) gift above all gifts is indeed Jesus Christ!!!! Obviously :)
ashirly 2 years ago
We're not in the text in Galatians (which verse in Gal are you referring to anyways?), we are in the text of Eph 2 and Eph 2 clearly says that grace and faith are gifts of God. The Son is not even mentioned in Eph 2:8 that He may be the "that" which is not of ourselves.
If you can show us from the Greek text how McClarty is wrong, then I would be happy to listen. But just saying "the gift is not faith" without Scriptural or scholarly argument is a waste of typing and a waste of comment space.
AgApE010 2 years ago
The grace of God influences both the understanding and the affections. Warm affections without knowledge, can rise no higher than superstition; and that knowledge which does not influence the heart and affections will only make a hypocrite.
John Newton
6089102841 2 years ago
Christ suffered the same sin judgment due to his sheep:
John10:11
..the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep
The knowledge of Jesus Christ is that we have not chosen him - but he has chosen us to faith:
John15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you..
and that Faith is a gift given by God to his sheep:
Phil1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him..
Nothing sad about God's sovereignty
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Grace, Grace, Grace, Grace, Grace, Grace, Grace.......!
stereodust3 2 years ago
Lane, thank you for this video, that is awesome! Praise God!
SwordSearchers 2 years ago
I've recently come on as a Pastor in a Baptist Church where the majority would not be Calvinists. I feel like I'm walking on a piece of thread across Niagara Falls. But I must be faithful to what I believe Scripture is telling us. HELP!
Striving4Holiness 2 years ago
You might want to read Collin Hansen, Young, Restless, Reformed - it has a story that fits your circumstances. May the Lord bless you pastor.
jgourlay6 2 years ago
Amen! Great lesson!
Calvinists are always accused of "going to the Greek", as if it's a bad thing, because it usually exposes the wrong theology that some people hold to. Why do Calvinists typically go to the Greek? Probably because we strongly believe that the word of God is the word of God and therefore take it very seriously and study it carefully!
AgApE010 2 years ago
Thanks for sharing buddy. :)
All of grace buddy. If it wasn't for grace none would be saved.
mutamusmaximus 2 years ago
I was brought up to believe i had done something to deserve God's grace ... it never really made sense to me. The recognition of Sovereign Grace has brought me to my knees in gratefulness. No more robbing God for me ... I now give Him all the glory and credit for my Salvation. Thank you Lord.
Striving4Holiness 2 years ago 2
Amen
FORCHRST 2 years ago
Amen Striving. Praise God, He alone is worthy.
AgApE010 2 years ago
The good news is that God has unconditionally chosen his believers...he has not left them to their helpless sin bondaged selves to try and discover salvation:
Ephesians1:4
According as he has CHOSEN us in him before the foundation of the world...Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of HIS WILL
How much clearer do we need this people! God chose people according to the good pleasure of HIS OWN WILL!
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Great explanation... but... so what? Even if Salvation, Grace and Faith are gifts from God... it's still up to me to open up the gift. Giving a gift to my children at Christmas only becomes a gift, when it's opened. Food only becomes food when it's eaten - also then Salvation, Grace and Faith, even though gifts, do not become gifts until received. Thank You God for these gifts - and I do receive them, but help me consistently make the right choices.
snrdick1 2 years ago
Hi snrdick1. What you've offered is typical Arminian theology. But, what's lacking from your paradigm is actual Biblical support. Nowhere in the Bible do we read that God offers gifts and then waits to see if anyone will receive them. The gifts of God are irresistible, given to particular people for particular purposes. To insist that you have to open God's gifts like a Xmas present, you need to provide a clear text (not just a verse) that explains that exchange.
That's "so what." :-)
SBGGCA 2 years ago
The problem with your analogy is that: Men cannot by nature "open up the gift" because they are Spiritually dead in Sin rendering them deaf, blind & dumb to the truth. They have a natural inability to "open the gift" :
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned
1Cor.18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness..
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
God loves the Calvinist!
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Yes he does
FORCHRST 2 years ago
Amen to you brother!
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
He also loves sinners.
ele12957 2 years ago
Actually God loves All those that he gave Jesus to Save out of the world:
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
Where did you get the idea that "all that" was even referring to PEOPLE instead of all the glory & majesty & wealth & power that will come to Jesus Christ??
The 2nd half talks of PEOPLE - open call to Christ's kingdom.
ele12957 2 years ago
Try reading it in context and you'll see that Jesus is clearly speaking of why people will NOT believe in him. Those who do believe in him do so because they were Given to him by the father. This is irrefutable:
John6:36
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 ALL that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and HIM that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Part2)
Read further on in context a few verses down to solidify the fact that John 6:37 is teaching that only those that the father gives Jesus will come to believe and follow him:
John6:39
39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, THAT OF ALL which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Not only does the Father give Jesus his believers, but those believers are eternally secure - cannot lose their salvation!
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Christ's intention is that all men should be saved (1 Timothy 2:4), are you?
ele12957 2 years ago
If it is Christs intention that ALL HUMANITY should be saved, then all Humanity would become saved. Your misunderstanding "ALL MEN "in 1Tim2:4:
ALL MEN = All that the father gave Jesus out of the world (the sheep)
Jon10:27My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me
Jon10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice and there shall be one fold
Jon10:26 But ye believe not because ye are NOT of my sheep
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
I am very familar with how Calvinist twist the meanings of words such as all doesn't mean all and whomsoever doesn't mean whomsoever or that repent doesn't mean you can or that have faith doesn't mean you can unless God gives you the ability too etc. Or choose, doesn't mean you can. Human logic and faulty resoning all to support a faulty doctrinal believe system.
ele12957 2 years ago
Actually, A faulty doctrinal belief system
is one that makes Christ's death out be be a failure, implying that his blood sacrafice is only effective if man's "Free-will" decides it is. Sorry, Christs death did actually secure salvation for God's people and no actions of men can ever change or perfect that:
2Thess2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning CHOSEN YOU to SALATION..
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Part2)
The bible uses "ALL MEN" in different ways.
For example, Jesus used ALL MEN below to mean unbelievers only. If it meant ALL HUMANITY, then even believers would hate believers:
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of ALL MEN for my name's sake
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
John 3:16 makes it pretty plan he loved the whole world and he that believeth is saved. etc.
ele12957 2 years ago
John3:16 makes it pretty plain that:
1) God loved ALL that he gave Jesus to save OUT OF THE WORLD:
John 17:9
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine
2) and those that the father gave Jesus to save out of the world are the "Whosoever" who will believe:
Acts 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life BELIEVED.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Calvinism says, ALL doesn't mean ALL and WHOMSOEVER doesn't actually mean WHOMSOEVER or the he THAT BELIEVETH doesn't mean he can BELIEVE at all. When God says to CHOOSE between life and death he really meant you don't have the ability to CHOOSE! When God tells man to REPENT, he can't unless God gives him the ability to! When God says he loved the world it doesn't mean the whole world, just a select few who have been chosen and he hates most of the world!
There ends the lesson!
ele12957 2 years ago
The scriptures will not allow you to read a humanistic freewill salvation system into those words.
You need to understand the outward call. This is universal as it goes out to every creature: Turn, repent and believe. But only those who receive the inward call of regeneration by the holy spirit will actually do it, the rest will reject it. It's ALL by God's will alone, Not mans will:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
You got to be kidding me, Calvinism is nothing but human reason and logic!!! It twists the scriptures changes the meanings of words and its founder was a murderer and control freak. His life didn't represent the life of Christ at all. The church understood grace 1400 years before Calvin came to pervert it. Freewill is a solid biblical concept and the idea that only those who God regenerates can have faith is false. Numerous scripture talk about people resisting the Holy Spirit.
ele12957 2 years ago
"Freewill is a solid biblical concept"
Please provide one indicative verse indicating that a man's will is free.
LaneCh 2 years ago
Whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.--Revelation 22:17
Acts 17:30 but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent. Why would God command ALL men to repent if only certain men have been chosen for salvation? 1 John 2:2 couldn't be any clearer, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." Calvinism is unbiblical heresy!
ele12957 2 years ago
Freewill is a myth. If the Holy Spirit doesnt step in, no one will ever choose to believe! Just go out and preach the gospel on the streets. People will mock, curse, belittle and spit on you? Why? Is it because you failed to manipulate them into believing or activate their freewill goodness to choose? No, its because thay are DEAD in sin, natural enemies of the cross. Only a supernatural act can change them
Phil2:13 it is God which worketh in you both to WILL and to do of his good pleasure
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.--Revelation 22:17
Acts 17:30 but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent. Why would God command ALL men to repent if only certain men have been chosen for salvation? 1 John 2:2 couldn't be any clearer, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." Calvinism is unbiblical heresy!
ele12957 2 years ago
I preach publicly all the time & sinners rejecting the gospel isn't proof that there isn't free will!
Ask yourself this question, what did Jesus preach that caused people to forget food & water and follow him into a desert to listen to all he had to say?
What was different about what he communicated about God then say the Pharisees? Look how many times the Pharisees were angry with him for eating and drinking with sinners? Notice how sinners came to Jesus, figure that out? Calvinist can't!
ele12957 2 years ago
It is difficult for the Holy Spirit to work with a preacher who doesn't understand the gospel and God's love, it is easy to blame the sinner but Paul never prayer for sinners to hear he asked for prayer for himself so he would preach effectively. Paul believed Jesus who said the harvest is ready and great; failure to reach people most often lies with unbiblical preaching. I choose to believe the Bible and I get Bible results if you don't maybe you need to judge yourself.
ele12957 2 years ago
There is nothing "difficult" for the Holy Spirit as you suppose. That is synergistic nonsense. Paul was on his way to Damascus to arrest Christians when his sudden miraculous conversion occured. Jesus did not ASK him for a freewill decision. Jesus simply commanded - Paul obeyed.
There is no failure to reach people. ALl is determined
2 Cor4:3-4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
You Said: "I choose to believe the Bible and I get Bible results"
But you fail to give credit where its due. You can go ahead and pat yourself on the back , But biblical Christians give all the credit to God the Holy Spirit for their salvation. That means ALL the credit for their faith, repentance and good works. ...not their freewill decisions
Eph2:8 For by Grace are you saved through Faith and that is NOT OF YOURSELVES it is a gift of God and not of works, lest any man should BOAST
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
I gave credit to God because he is good and his word is true and works, to read into that I am not a Biblical Christian is typical of how Calvinist put their own personal spin on what they think they hear instead of what is said.
If the subject is freewill and God commands man to repent and the CHOOSE not to then that pretty much settles it!
Paul siad it was the goodnes of God that brought him to repentance Titus and Rom 2:4.
The Bible is full of examples of people disobeting God.
ele12957 2 years ago
You already admitted you are not getting the same results that Jesus and Paul did when they preached yet you shift the blame to the sinner or the Holy Spirit when they Bible says God worked with them, U ignore the possiblity it is ur message. God doesn't annoint deception and he doesn't work with it to confrim his word.
You can continue to get zip results & waste ur time & preach a gospel that has no power or you can repent and seek God why ur preaching does not produce what HE said it would!
ele12957 2 years ago
RESULTS?? Actually, Jesus was rejected by all those which the father did NOT give him because:
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Same with Paul. He preached to ALL in hopes of reaching God's Children (the elect)
2 Tim2:10
I endure all things for the elect's sakes that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory
The point of preaching to ALL is to reach God's people.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
P1)
Paul made no freewill decision on the road to Damascus. Paul was CHOSEN:
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a CHOSEN VESSEL unto me
It was an UNCONDITIONAL calling:
Gal1:15
But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Romans2:4 - speaks of God leading sinners to Repentance. Repentance is a sovereign act granted, Not produced by freewill:
Acts11:18 Then hath God also to the Gentiles GRANTED repentance unto life
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
P2)
Why Does God command ALL men to Repent if ALL men cannot Repent?
Again, to demonstrate that sinners are helpless in and of themselves outside of Grace. Unless God grants repentamce, they cannot of themselves come to repentance:
Romans11:29
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Same with Faith, it must be granted as a demonstration of the need for Grace:
Phil1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer..
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Those who followed & stayed with Jesus were called to do so by the father as they were given to Jesus:
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me
The gospel is not some game in which you must psycologically manipulate, trick or talk people into believing. Without the Holy Spirit working in a person, the words are futile to the ears of a DEAD sinner.
1 Thessalonians 1:5
For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
1)Revelation 22:17 - Does not address ability. This is an outward call.
2)Acts17:30 - Does not address ability. This is an outward call.
Why command ALL men to repent if certain ones will? To demonstrate that man is hopeless in and of himself without Grace.
Same reason why 10 commandments were given!
3)John2:2 - The "whole world" is referring to all that the father gave Jesus to save out of the world (sheep)
Jon10:15 I know the Father and I lay down my life for the sheep
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
The law was givien to show that man was a sinner in need of a savior, now U use the message in the NT for the same purpose. God wouldn't have commanded man to repent if man did not have the ability to. To say it was just an outward call is silly and denies Gods intent & purpose & to say it was just to show that man couldn't do something is even more then silly.
The Law already demon strated mans hopelessness God din't need to do anymore yet you use the whole of the NT to try & make this point.
ele12957 2 years ago
How did mankind fall? Did they have choice to disobey God? Where did they get the ability? Did the Holy Spirit or Satan give them the ABILITY to disobey? So now this ability to choose life over death and blessing over cursing isnt really a choice at all but something that gets program on our hard drive so the concept of choice as God says isnt real but an illusion.
ele12957 2 years ago
Their "choice" to transgress brought about the fall of mankind resulting in an inheritance of SPIRITUAL DEATH and bondage to sin for ALL:
Eph2:5
Even when we were DEAD in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Col2:13
And you, being dead in your sins... hath he quickened
1Cor2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
There is nothing as unconditional as Gods love. There is nothing U can do concerning the fact that the sin of the world has been forgiven and Jesus was made sin so that we might be made righteous free from our works
Rom 4:5" But to him that works not but believes in Him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness"
All you can do concerning this wonderful truth is simply believe it by faith we have access into His grace Rom 5:1-3 and identify yourself with His love
ele12957 2 years ago
Jesus wants you to know your innocence that was obtained in Christ. Man does not have to live in condemnation any more He would love to have you believe the great truth about what happened to you in the obedience, death and resurrection of Jesus on behalf of us all so that you can experience His resurrection power manifesting in your life no later than today.
God loves us and was willing to show it in this wonderful way.
ele12957 2 years ago
Jesus wants God's people (sheep) to know that their innocence was obtained in Christ. He came to seek & save all that the father gave him. The promises are to God's called people alone whom he loves - not all of universal humanity. We preach to ALL creatures true, but There is a reason people never believe in their lifetime - and its not because you failed to manipulate or activate a supposed freewill mechanism in them to believe.
They were NEVER meant to believe my friend. Thats the reality
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Ur God creates people who are never given the opportunity or the ability to repent and he sends them to hell for not repenting to burn for eternity and you call this just!
ele12957 2 years ago
I offer you the same reply that Paul did:
Rom9:19
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Paul is drawing an illustration from an Old Testament passage of scripture from Jeremiah 18:3-6. In that passage, God sent Jeremiah to the potter's house to learn a lesson. The potter was making a vessel and it was marred, so he remade it. The Lord spoke to Jeremiah and said, "O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel."
ele12957 2 years ago
From this illustration, some people have drawn a wrong conclusion that the Lord creates some people evil and predestined to a life of damnation, not by their choice, but by God's. However, a closer look at the passage in Jeremiah and its context will show that is not the case.
First of all, the potter started to create a good vessel but the clay was marred. Whose fault was that? It wasn't the potter's fault. The clay was faulty.
ele12957 2 years ago
So, the potter took this imperfect clay and, instead of discarding it, he refashioned it into another vessel that may not have been worth nearly as much as his original design, but was still useful.
Likewise, the Lord does not create certain individuals for destruction, However, some do become marred by their own choice, not due to any fault of the Creator. Instead of just removing them from the earth, the Lord will endure (v. 22) their atrocities.
ele12957 2 years ago
He may even put them in great positions of authority such as He did with Pharaoh, so that He may manifest His great power through His victory over them and their devices. God can still use someone who has rejected Him in the same way that a potter can take a marred piece of clay and find some use for it.
ele12957 2 years ago
It can be clearly seen that the Lord does not do these things against the will of the individual by continuing to read the context of Jeremiah's experience with the potter. In verses 7-10, the Lord says that when He purposes evil or good against a nation, if that nation repents, then God will change His plans for them. That undeniably states that our choice influences God's choice.
ele12957 2 years ago
God doesnt change his plans according to mans freewill:
Isa46:10, Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done, saying My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure
Dan.4:35, And all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, but He does according to His will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth; and no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, What hast Thou done?"
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
The Lord did create certain individuals for destruction as evidenced by vs 22,23,24. Freewill had nothing to do with it. Romans 9 actually rejects the idea of freewill:
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Again, Rom 9 Cannot be understood by Jeremiah. The Clay in Rom is referring to individuals who were molded into vessels. VS 24 confirms: 22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the VESSELS OF WRATH fitted to destruction: 23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the VESSELS OF MERCY, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the JEWS only, but also of the GENTILES?
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Actually Romans 9 cannot be understood by Jeremish18.
It must be understood by the full context of Romans 9 - Which clearly refers to 'individuals', not objects, chosen by election
7Neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all CHILDREN
11For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God ACCORDING TO ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
God's love is Unconditional for his people (sheep) whom God chose out of the World and gave to Jesus:
Eph1:4
According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world...Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will
The SIn of God's people (sheep) has been forgiven not universal Humanity:
Jon10:15 -I lay down my life for the SHEEP
Matt1:21 -for he shall save HIS PEOPLE from their sins
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Haha so you are twisting God's word to make it say what you want. Whats those verses are saying is that God died for everyone, but only those who accept Him are saved.
His gift of salvation is available to everyone, but not everyone accepts it.
Im so happy that my God is big enough to save everyone. I feel sorry that you believe in such a small god
kyleharper16 2 years ago
I'm so sorry that you believe that Jesus' blood did not succeed on the cross to actually save anyone because man has to perfect his blood sacrafice with their Sin Corpsed supposed Freewill.
A small God is one who rolls the dice and waits, hopes, pleads, prays for sinners to finally somehow resurect themselves from a sin dead state to believe.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Actually i do believe that Jesus and God are powerful enough to save the entirety of civilization, you're the one who doesnt.
My God knows what is going to happen, but does not choose who will believe and who will not
kyleharper16 2 years ago
Well actually I believe God is powerful enough to save ALL civilization as you do, the difference is that I hold to the scriptures teachings that God has CHOSEN to save a people out of civilization whereas your theology restricts God's power to save - to man's sinful will.
You basically idolize and exalt mans will above Gods. My Theology exalts God's will above mans. I agree that God knows what is going to happen; but because he wrote it all from the beginning to the end- Author & Finisher
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
No i do not basically idolize and exalt mans will above Gods. God gave man free will, exemplified in the garden when He gave Adam and Eve a choice and carried on to present day.
This is not a drama production that God wrote. You have some twisted and distorted view of the Bible. Arguments can be made about both sides, biblically.
Answer this: why did God create people with the sole purpose of going to hell? That contradicts His nature
kyleharper16 2 years ago
P1) If you believe that Man's Sin WIll can direct, change or thwart God's actions...your ignorantly idolizing and exalting Mans will over God's. God gave Adam a freewill...but it is free no longer. The transgression of Adam & Eve was punished with Spiritual Death for all of mankind. Man is now in bondage to a Sin nature and cannot -in and of himself- desire, let alone choose God. If they were not, everyone would believe in Christ; but just go out and preach in the streets and see for yourself.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
You are confusing two very different things. Foreknowledge and predestination. God foreknew all, He didnt choose who lived and who died. We choose to accept His gift. Anyone out there right now can choose to either accept or reject His offer. That is called free will.
Tell me how, without going against His nature, God can ordain certain people to go to hell
kyleharper16 2 years ago
No confusion.
Forknowledge - Those whom God chose he knows. He knows his people because he chose his people:
Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath CHOSEN us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love
5Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL
Foreknowledge & Predestination are not based on Freewill. The last sentence rejects that: PLEASURE OF HIS WILL
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
You still didnt answer the question...avoiding it perhaps?
God's will is going to happen, one way or another. He'll get it done through somebody. God doesnt control that person like a puppet, however. That is not biblical.
God says in the Bible that He has a PLAN for our lives, meaning something that He would like for us to do, not something He is forcing us to do.
kyleharper16 2 years ago
No, God's will isn't some chance occurence my friend. It is set in Stone! He doesnt search to find somebody causally sinning and ride his cotails to get his will done. Scripture is Clear, God controls the hearts and minds of sinners for his purposes:
Exodus 9:12
And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto
Moses.
Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up..
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
you are so blind...im sorry.
so basically you think that mission work does nothing and we shouldnt minister to the lost?
kyleharper16 2 years ago
You Said: So basically you think that mission work does nothing..
Not at all. We are to Preach the Gospel to EVERY creature. But our words will only be accepted by God's sheep (elect). The rest will reject. When people do believe - we must give the Holy Spirit ALL the credit NOT mans freewill.
This was Paul's mission and should be ours:
2 Tim2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Why would we preach to those who have already made the choice to accept? that makes no sense
kyleharper16 2 years ago
You asked: Why would we preach to those who have already made the choice to accept? that makes no sense
Good question. The elect have not "chosen" Christ until they hear the gospel. We preach to every creature to reach the chosen. They will hear our message, believe and be saved because the Holy Spirit has worked in them to change their dead natures.
Everyone else will reject it. Why do you think people reject the gospel? Its not because we failed to manipulate them with words.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
No, people reject the gospel because they dont like the idea of being accountable to some higher being
kyleharper16 2 years ago
Kyleharper,
And what is the source of their not likeing the idea of being accountable to some higher Power??
It all stems from our sin dead nature. Unless the Holy Spirit steps in to change our natures, we will always reject Christ whether our excuse is: "we dont like to be accountable to God"
"There is no evidence"
"I dont believe the bible is true" "Its all just religion"
The source is our internal Sin bondaged inability:
Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Well i didnt reject Christ, and i have a human sin nature...?
kyleharper16 2 years ago
Kyle,
If your saved than Give the Holy Spirit 110% credit for regeneration - none your sin bondaged will.
Christians should look for every way possible to reject themselves and exalt God. How prideful for anyone to think that something within ourselves- outside of Sovereign Grace -can possibly bring on salvation and perfect Christs sacrafice. Freewiil is not only robbing God, it is contrary to all that is Christian. if we could "FREE-WILL" salvation - we could keep the law perfectly!
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
you are insane...i do give God all of the credit. That is why it is based on faith, not on works.
I chose to accept God's gift of salvation and i am so happy i did!
kyleharper16 2 years ago
How in the world can you claim to give God ALL of the credit when you say that you "Chose" to accept something by your freewill? That is a contradiction. Your not giving God ALL (100%) of the credit. Your giving your freewill the credit and then saying your giving God the credit. But the Bible teaches that it is ALL a gift of Grace - Not a gift of freewill.
Works are a product of Will. If your faith is of your own Chosen will (outside of Grace) - then it is a product of works by definition.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
ALL is a gift of Grace - NOT Freewill
FAITH IS A GIFT:
Eph2:8
For by grace are you saved through FAITH and that is NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is a GIFT from God
REPENTANCE IS A GIFT:
Acts 11:18
When they heard these things they held their peace and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life
WORKS ARE A GIFT:
Eph2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God hath before ORDAINED that we should walk in them
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Yes and gifts are recieved not forced on people or then it wouldn't be a gift!
ele12957 2 years ago
Your right - gifts are not forced upon anyone.
But if God changes ones nature to desire them - its a different story. That's what happens at regeneration, sin natures are changed to desire Christ and Gods gifts.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
So you are saying God makes you born again so you will get born again?
Gifts are recieved or rejected it is up to the person to choose.
ele12957 2 years ago
Nope. God makes us Born again so we will be born again. God makes us born again so we WILL believe, repent and live the Christian life. Before becoming born again - no sinner desires to receive any gift from God. A DEAD man cannot desire life, its contrary to his nature.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Spritually dead people all through the Bible recieved from God, to deny such is ignorance.
ele12957 2 years ago
Ele,
What is ignorant to not heed Pauls teaching on the matter:
Ephesians 2 1And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world..
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the CHILDREN OF WRATH, even as others.
You were a child of Wrath before God changed you Ele12957!
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Changing nature is forcing upon them.
Ephesians 2:8 says that grace is a gift, not faith lol...are you serious?
And works are a product of our faith, of which we choose to believe
kyleharper16 2 years ago
Kyleharper,
You'll need to email me from this point forward....but you may not need to. The video here does a great job of explaining Ephesians 2:8 - maybe you should watch it.
Oh And if you think that resurrecting a DEAD sinners nature is an act of forcing someoner to believe.....well I say THANK GOD FOR GODS FORCEFULLNESS IN SAVING US!
I have no problem at all with that kind of force at all!
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Well thats cause you are arrogant...i hope you can get over that someday to give God's people a good name
kyleharper16 2 years ago
Where is the force in believing. It is active and not passive. We must believe in order to be regenerated.
Jn 5:24Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
ACTIVE not passive
FORCHRST 2 years ago
God does have a plan for us, your right. But that Plan is not based on any supposed natural freewill of man. God's plan for us is based on his own good sovereign pleasure. For example, is it our plan for judgment day? No! If we had freewill to move God, there would be no Judgment day.
But God has ordained a day of Judgment without question:
2 Pet3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
How can a spiritually dead, sin bondaged corpse Choose to accept any Gifts from God outside of Grace? Especially in light of the fact that scripture rejects Freewill towards God before regeneration:
1Cor2:14
But the natural man RECEIVETH NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither CAN HE KNOW THEM, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED.
Anyone out there can choose God right now - only if God the Holy Spirit first changes their SIn Dead nature first.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
They can accept it because Jesus died on the cross! Thats the only way. Why are you so blind and arrogant?
kyleharper16 2 years ago
You said: They can accept it because he died on the cross.
No one can accept Jesus by any supposed natural Freewill. Thats just not biblical. Those who accept Christ do so only because they were first made born again by the Holy Spirit. They must be resurrected from their Dead sin natures first. Only those first born first can receive Christ:
John 1:13
Which WERE BORN, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN , but of God.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
You Ask: Tell me how, without going against His nature, God can ordain certain people to go to hell
Let me respond with another question: How does God ordain the following without violating his nature:
1Kings22:19
23Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
Answer: It is Not a violation of his nature! God has a secret will and revealed will. His secret will is outside our knowledge.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
P2) Not a drama production? That's the problem. Man thinks that his sinful "will" can not only direct, thwart or change God's actions...but that his "will" is the writer of History! You see how this cancer of humanism spreads? You basically dethrone God and make Man's will sovereign over All! Fact is-God is sovereignly in control. He is the Author and Finisher of ALL things - He doesnt roll the dice and leave anything to chance. If he did - well then we could say God makes mistakes. He doesnt!
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
You believe God is unable to remain sovereign if man has a free will and I don't nor do I believe the Bible teaches such.
You take scriptures such as God commanding everyone to repent and twist its meaning to say see not everyone has repented so therefore God is showing us we can't! This is ur tactic with most of Gods word. Where is God tells man to choose you say we can't but God says we can.
ele12957 2 years ago
Ele12957,
When God commands all men to do something - you want to read an assumed ability exists there, otherwise God would have never commanded. That is wrong. God commanded ALL to keep the 10 commandments perfectly. Why? We know that no man is ABLE to keep them perfectly, so why would God command it?
Answer - to show us the knowledge of our sin and the hopelessness of relying on anything within ourselves outside of God's grace to get right with God. Man's will cannot perfect God's grace.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
P3) It pains many of us to admit that God is a potter and we are nothing but the Clay which he molds as he sees fit. God's purposes for the things he does are according to the good pleasure of his own WILL - to bring himself Glory and for the good of his people whom he chose. True God's nature is incapable of human sin, but remember that God ordained the MURDER of Jesus and used sinners to accomplish this for the good of his people. Can we know say that God's nature contradicts his actions? No!
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
God did not ordaine the murder of Jesus it was a judgement for sin of all mankind, just another twisting of the facts to try and suit ur doctrine.
ele12957 2 years ago
Ele12957
Correction, God did ORDAIN - not only the crucifixion of Jesus - but also the sinners actions to accomplish this
Acts4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel DETERMINED BEFORE to be done.
John 19:11
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were GIVEN THEE from above
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Correction, read what I said not what you want to hear!
ele12957 2 years ago
Excuse me, the crucifixion of Jesus was technically a killing. This was the reason the Jews wanted the Romans to condem him. They did not want to violate the commandment: "Thou shalt not Kill"
Although Christians know that it was more than some mere killing - it was indeed a sacraficial atonement for the sins of Gods people which God ordained. Anyway you look at it - it was a DEATH ordained by God for Good.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
It may have been "technically a killing" but we now know it was divine judgment for the sins of all mankind.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Romans 10:3
Paul says that THEY have not SUBMITTED themselves unto righteousness! Sounds like they had a choice and they rebelled.
ele12957 2 years ago
Very well done, man...this guy is deceived into thinking we have no free will
kyleharper16 2 years ago
Kyleharper16,
All I can tell you is that Freewill is a myth. Man is naturally dead in sin and bondaged to his nature which cannot desire or choose God. Unless the Holy Spirit changes us, we will never, ever believe a word of the Gospel.
The point of preaching the gospel to all creatures is not to "soul win" as if salvation was some PsP2 game...the point is to reach God's sheep. Salvation belongs to God and he will save those whom he has chosen and prepared it for
Email me with anything furthr
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
So we are all robots? God is up there controlling everything we do?
kyleharper16 2 years ago
Kyleharper,
No, were not robots. God doesnt force anyone to believe. He changes our natures so that we naturally DESIRE to believe and follow. If he doesnt first change our natures - our natural desire is to hate and reject Christ God. Big difference.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Romans10:13 - and why have they NOT submitted themselves unto righteousness? There is no explanation of ability here.
Read further into Chapter 11 to get the answer of why they have not submitted themselves:
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
You see, no freewill my friend. It is all an act of God's Grace!
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
You are not being honest with the text, it says they did not submit not that they couldnt or wouldnt BUT they would not! The implied meaning is they could have if they so choose to do so but they choose not to.
Mark 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
Why did Jesus marvel at their unbelief? Surely if he knew they were incapable of believing he should not be surprised but expect it like you do?
ele12957 2 years ago
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.S
Sounds to me some is getting a rebuke for being rebellious, hard to rebuke someone who doesnt have a choice.
ele12957 2 years ago
Actually in Mark 6:6 - Jesus is not saying that he doesnt understand why they dont believe.
As a matter of fact - Jesus tells us why people don't & do believe:
John6:44 44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me
Jesus also specifically identify those who will not believe:
John 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Jesus was amazed and it says he went about teaching, why? Because faith comes from hearing the word of God and that is what they lacked. Turning it into something mystical goes against the context and other miracles where Jesus gave the person credit for having faith.
ele12957 2 years ago
No, it didn't say all were drawn with the same effort, did it? So let's stick to the text.
It doesn't say anything other than you are drawn - it might have been for a millisecond. If the chance to respond is ignored, then all bets are off, it doesn't say God will continue to draw. Once God turns away, then salvation becomes impossible - John 6:44
The criteria set up naturally self-selects because the ones who don't respond are the smugly self-righteous.
ele12957 2 years ago
John 6:44 is true, yet it doesn't say all men aren't drawn & they are as John 12:32 says, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
ele12957 2 years ago
John 6:40 says God's WILL that "every one that seeth...and believeth ... may" yet you take "giveth" in v.37 as contrary to v.40! And you leave out HALF of v.37 "AND him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." So even the ungiven" (as you understand it) CAN STILL COME since ALL ARE DRAWN. John 7:37!
ele12957 2 years ago
Jam 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.
To a Calvinist this is a problem, because if God himself does the drawing then they are already near and this verse declares God isn't near!
ele12957 2 years ago
Jam4:8 - No problem here. This is a different context encouraging born again believers to resist the flesh. Even saved believers must combat the lusts of their flesh. Difference is that before people are saved - they are in complete bondage to the flesh
James4:1
From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Remember Paul taught us about the flesh:
Rom7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
"Jam4:8 - No problem here." You apprently didn't read the whole verse "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners"
The hands and heart of a child of God has been already cleansed so this couldn't be talking about just believers.
ele12957 2 years ago
Jame4:8 - Read back to the beginning of the chapter - the flesh of "believers" who posess the Spirit is what is in view here. The unsaved do NOT have the spirit:
James4:5
5Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The SPIRIT that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
When Believers sin in weakness to the Flesh - this is filthiness that must be repented of.
James4:1
1From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your MEMBERS?
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
I am not denying there isn't an application for the believer but it does address sinners, a believers are not called sinners.
ele12957 2 years ago
It doesnt address unbelievers because unbelievers are Spiritually Dead, and unable to resist their flesh. That the problem, we cant trivilaize the fact that we are DEAD IN SIN before we are healed/regenerated through the spirit:
Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins.. hath he quickened
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
John6:40 - Actually this verse is referring to the individuals in verse 39. These are the everyone that seeth & believeth:
39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of ALL WHICH HE HAS GIVEN ME I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John6:37 - Teaches that there is NO possibility that Jesus will reject those that the father gives him - because Jesus came to do his fathers will
ONLY the Given are drawn and will come
ONLY the Given will be saved
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
John6:44 - Teaches that no man CAN come to Jesus unless the father draws them.
But does this teach that ALL humanity will be drawn by the Father? Not at all. Those drawn by the father are the same GIVEN by the Father:
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me
Those Drawn by the father - Are given by the father - They are the Sheep whom Jesus cam for.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Actually, Read the text more carefully.
It says in John6:44
1)No man *CAN* come to me unless the father draws.
Natural ability is being rejected. So unless the Father directly interjects to bring them to Jesus - no man CAN come to Jesus - that includes by any supposed freewill.
2) And *I will raise him up* on the last day
Those that the Father draws to Jesus will DEFINITELY be saved without question. ALL that the father draws to Jesus will DEFINETLY be raised up.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God -TRUE
But the natural man is DEAF to the Word of God because his nature is Dead in Sin. Until the Holy Spirit regenerates him - He will always be deaf to the Gospel. If this was not so, EVERYONE would have ears to hear
Mat11:15He that hath ears to hear, let him hear
1Cor2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God -TRUE
But the natural man is DEAF to the Word of God'
Not true the people who were healed under Jesus ministry were not saved yet they had faith. Ur theory collapses under the light of Gods word.
ele12957 2 years ago
How do you know that the people who were healed under Jesus ministry were not saved? Especially in the light of the fact that those he healed did follow him:
Matthew 12:15
But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
Matthew 19:2
And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there.
Matthew 19:2
And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago