There can be no unity as long as the catholic church keeps the innovations that separates the roman catholic church from the unified church that existed in the east and in the west duting the first millenia. The union must be a union in Truth and Love.
The church must unite once more. It is time to put chidish things away. There is a great threat, which is modernism, it has been slowly leaking it to the church on both sides, that is the east and the west. It is time the 5 sees once again met and laid down an authoritative command. It has been far to long and the devil is starting to wear us down. A house divded against itself can not stand. It is time to unite and bring back an authoritative church, that requires all 5 sees.
@mateodorio Oh thanks for reminding. Jesus came 600 years after Isiah that doesn't mean He is lesser than him. He is God. Tell me One thing how many died in ROME? You can not even estimate them. Though We are the Catholics from Pakistan and got a Rite of Syro - Malabar of St. Thomas but this rite never betray it from the Holy See and kept loyal to St. Peter. Now what we are called Roman Catholics. The Eastern Rites betray first and now are coming in full Communion with Rome. You Check history...
@mateodorio Another thing what if I say that Roman or Latin Rite is the Oldest Rite of the History. I can prove it. St. Peter was the oldest and most powerful representative of Apostles. He was chosen to convert Rome the then Super Power who was reigning the Whole World including the East. And he was successful. And through St. Peter we got this Rite. After the conversion of Helen the Kingdom of Rome surrendered to Christianity. Roman is the most ancient Rite.
@eraser695 How can Rome be the "most ancient rite" when Christianity spread from the East? Jerusalem was the first church, and missions spread from there to Antioch, Alexandria, Asia Minor. The oldest Christian communities are in the Middle East and Armenia. Peter was just leader of the Apostles. St. James presided over the Jerusalem Synods, not Peter.All church matters were decided by a council. Not one Apostle ruling over another. There is no proof that Peter was in Rome preaching.
@trueorthodoxfaith Brother don't argue on that. It can not be said the one who embraced Christ first is the most Ancient. Catholics (Apostles) have just One goal which was to Convert pagan Rome as it was not just the Heart of the Empire but the Heart of the Whole World. If the East was in the Path of the Apostles it got converted.
@trueorthodoxfaith You are absolutely right brother the Councils were held but don't you Know Peter was present in Every Council and nothing new was introduced in Christendom without the permission of Peter. Your Church was founded by Michael 1 Celarius, I know it very well. Paul on the issue of Circumcision first Came to Peter not James. Peter was the Chosen one for Babylon. If not then why you call Istanbul (New Rome) just start calling it New Jerusalem or New Antioch or New Alexandria.
@trueorthodoxfaith Crusades were held to protect the Byzantine Empire not the Holy Roman Empire. We have sacrificed our lives for you but You Responded Our Kindness by Killing the Latins in Constantinople and you deserved the Sack because you raped our Latin Women. Still Pope apologized for the Sack of Constantinople from the Patriarch in 2005. Did Patriarch apologized for the Massacre of Latins his predecessors held?
@eraser695 You are mislead and misinformed. The Crusades weakened the Eastern Empire. It destroyed not only Constantinople, but Antioch and Jerusalem. It allowed for the Turks to take control and because of a much weakened church, the Latins set up their own bishops.. The crusaders destroyed Orthodox Churches, raped, pillaged and burned. The anger and frustration from the Orthodox populous against the Latins, was uncalled for, but the crusaders damage and destruction was more monumental.
@trueorthodoxfaith Liar I am not mislead as No Catholic Priest pumped us against Orthodox. Our Catholics are that much innocent that they are making brotherhood with wolves like Orthodox. What you did in Catholic Serbia? What you Orthodox did in Catholic Croatia? What your Orthodox priests did in Catholic Poland? What are you doing in Albania? I would bring your inquisitions to the World thats a Promise.
@eraser695 You are really off base .It was the Catholic Croation Ustashe who massacred the Orthodox Serbians., 700,000 Serbians killed. After 1917 Catholic interventionists attacked the Orthodox Church in Ukraine. Hundreds of Ukrainian Orthodox priests eliminated and tortured by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists. In 1938-1939, in Western Ukraine the Polish government oversaw the destruction of over 190 Orthodox Churches, and many more turned over to the Latin rite.
@trueorthodoxfaith Oh you have no proof. I can say you massacred 10000000000000000000000 Latins but what the proof go and read history first. There were only to Patriarchates one Rome the other Constantinople. Michael 1 Cellarius get you separated from Peter.
@eraser695 You do not know history at all. It was the Latin delegates in Constantinople that excommunicated the East, It was Cardinal Humbert that excommunicated Cerularius. Rome separated from the Eastern Orthodox .
The early Church had five Patriarchs: Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Rome, and Constantinople.
For your info my comments are factual. Who could make up something as that? Don't be ignorant.
@trueorthodoxfaith Well well well the excommunication was Invalid as Cardinal was not the Bishop of Rome. Now from your own mouth you accepted the Orthodox was the Part of Catholic but why it is difficult for you to accept the Re - Union if your Patriarch is agreed.
@eraser695 Where in the Bible is the Roman Catholic Church? The word "catholic" in Scriptures and the early church means universal/whole, not Latin or Roman. The word orthodox defines the right faith or true teachings, which the Orthodox Church is. The Orthodox have not deviated from the true faith and teachings. Rome has deviated.If the true church is where Peter is, then since Peter established the churches in both Antioch and Alexandria, then these two places are also the true church.
@trueorthodoxfaith I never used the word Roman nor I am Roman. I am a Syro - Malankara Rite Catholic converted from Orthodoxy. You know the Only problem with you is Your ARROGANCE, thats why you are still falling apart.
@eraser695 You are confusing arrogance with factual. That's a pity.How is the Orthodox falling apart? Just don't make blind comments without the facts. The Latin church fell apart some time ago. The Protestant Reformation, the Anglican Church, Old and Traditional catholic groups not in communion with the pope. All these split from Rome.
@trueorthodoxfaith Okay but I tell you something really I didn't know about that. I was a Bit Confused the the Pope send an Apology for the sack of Constantinople to the Patriarch but I thought it was the Patriarch of Russia may be Alexus but it was Bartholomev. But I tell you something don't take it offensive the Unity doesn't mean that we should accept the doctrines of each but Unity means that we should stand with one another. Thats my perspective. What about you?
@eraser695 The destruction of Orthodox Churches by the Poles and Uniats, was happening all over the Carpathian regions in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Western Ukraine.
Around 1914 the Austro-Hungarian Empire eradicates Orthodox believers. A great number are sent to concentration camps. Talerhof & Terezin.
The papally sponsored crusades ,the Teutonic Knights, who came pillaging and raping against the Orthodox in Russia.
@trueorthodoxfaith I will not say a word further because Our Pontiff is guided by the Holy Ghost. The second thing is you are REFUTING by your own tongue your own Patriarch who is looking forward for unity as Islam is eliminating Orthodox Faith. I have no problem in accepting you as my brother then why you have?
@eraser695 The whole Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. There exists many Patriarchs in the Orthodox Church. The Patriarch of Constantinople is the only one who is being friendly to the Latin Church.
@trueorthodoxfaith Yes, but I really want to learn. Is Constantinople not your Supremo (Ecumenical)? Please I don't want to fight as we both profess the Same Christ and Trinity. Tell me briefly. Or you can PM me.
@eraser695 No, the Patriarch in Russia, and the Patriarch in Constantinople, and the Patriarch in Jerusalem and the Patriarch in Serbia, are all the same, they follow and preach the same faith, the same Orthodox Faith.
@trueorthodoxfaith Okay but I tell you something really I didn't know about that. I was a Bit Confused the the Pope send an Apology for the sack of Constantinople to the Patriarch but I thought it was the Patriarch of Russia may be Alexus but it was Bartholomev. But I tell you something don't take it offensive the Unity doesn't mean that we should accept the doctrines of each but Unity means that we should stand with one another. Thats my perspective. What about you?
Contrary to what the "ecumenical movement" would say, it cannot be ignored that there are some strikingly important differences between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy. These go way beyond even 'just' the filioque and papal primacy/infallibility. Our whole view of God and who is God is entirely different.
To those who make hateful comments on this page, may you be free from fear, may you be free from hatred, may you be free from ignorance. Fear and hatred are a result of ignorance. May you have peace.
It is hard for some Catholic and Orthodox to get past political, cultural, and historical differences. On the important issues, we are the same. We believe in salvation by the sacrifice of Christ, by grace, by repentence, by faith worked out in hope and love, and by perseverence. We have the Divine Liturgy/Mass, the priesthood, the Eucharist. We pray for the dead, we venerate Mary and the Saints. Let us look to St Maximos the Confessor, who knew that we had the same faith but had difft cultures.
why hate between catholic and orthodox?? they are so smillar! the only difference is the pope and the calender, but as i know greek orthodox got different high days (right word?) than russian orthodox, as i know between the orthodox are differences too, which are as "big" as the between for example greek orthodox and roman-catholic
and i bet, nearly all orthodox and catholic who talk such a shit about catholic and orthodox are serbians and croatians, forget the fucking war. you know that a catholic priest is allowed to make a worship in orthodox church and contrary it's allowed, too, as orthodox you are allowed to get the communion in catholic churches and a catholic is allowed to get them in orthodox churches! protestands aren't allowed to do that.
@mrkzZz@mrkzZz lol dude catholics invented purgatory dissolved sacraments they went far away of holy spirit.
.i can say many of them worship pope.Catholics from all around the world rather prefer to be at the "holy land" Vatican at Easter night then at jerusalem at jesus grave.
Why so much hate between the two churches? They're very close, most of the differences are very trivial, well except for that little Crusades bit, but I'm going to leave that out ;). I agree with DavidVelezPerez, we should have peace, ecemunism isn't necessary, only peace. =)
One of the reasons why did christianity split is the one that in crusade wars,crusaders attacked their christian fellow byzantine empire who supported crusaders... They were led by greed and abadoned the holy war and robbed constantinopole-christian city... that crusader war failed coz they killed christian people instead conquering non-christian countries... Because of that shameful act the christianity split... and later it split again when(protestants split from chatolics)
It never ceases to amaze me how the Orthodox continue bringing up the crusades while conveniently acting amnestic when it comes to the BATTLE OF LEPANTO when us Spaniards defeated your greatest enemy.
I would rather convert to pagan than join with heretics... belivings are mostly same but catholic faith have some major differences which are very immportant to us , so immportant that we wont join till catholics accept the true way , our way... almost 1000 years catholics refuse to leave heresy so it'll be immpossible to unify.Also catholics crusaders ruined orthodox byzantine empire and u did bad things to many other orthodox christians so we basicaly HATE U HERETICS AND WE WONT JOIN WITH U!!!
In Serbian language Canta means "the bucket" stupid idiot,so Canto-bitches means "bucket-bitches",and why bucket? Coz u get fucked on gay parades and u need buckets so u can shit sperm out of ur asses in something.Go fuck urself stupid idiots... in ur countries gays roam free and in orthodox countries they get harsh lesson.Here gay parades are made by military support coz tons and tons of faithful orthodox comes to kill ur brothers faggots.U tell ur priest to put down albanian hat from his head.
Also btw put down stupid spikes from ur churches , they much more look like giant pitchforks than churches this way. Also , u say that we use idoltary but u made 40 meters high idol of jesus and u make idols of mary , jesus and others. U are retarded. Go fuck yourself idiots.
I am not anti-black myself. If we are not anti-jew than we are anti-muslim and thats even worser than being anti-jew. But we dont like them both. And u shouldnt love jews too. They killed jesus idiot. They expected messiah to come with pocket deeper than his pants and with goleden toga or whatever...We are anti-catholic coz u did many bad things to us trough history,worst one is attack on sanctuary of orthodoxity and pillaging and robbing of orthodox churches during it , BARBARIANS!!! HEATHEN!!!
U robbed them coz u hate us. We hate u coz u hate u. U hate us coz we dont want to obey the popes tyrany and we hate u coz u want to make us obey popes tyranny. U want to ignore mine comment coz u cant accept the truth and under those "comments" u mean those which proves catholics more bad than we are. Btw russians robbed catholic churches all over poland and lithuania , teutonic monasteries burnt etc. Revenge is sweet. Btw I am glad muslims robbed spain and I am glad protestants broke away.
I dont hate jews coz of that , I know he forgave them... I know they were the sacred people till they went in sin. But I have a other reason to hate jews. They support everything whats against Serbia and Russia so I hate it coz of that too. They even armed lots of albanian terrorists too!!! I gota reason to hate them... But from religious view I dont have a reason to hate them...
Right, tolerance, they taught you that really well... I also think it's not really an Orthodox thing, it's just an eastern slavic thing. I'm part Ukrainian and Russian, and I grew up with intolerant people (parents' friends). I've seen and met intolerant people of all religions, I haven't seen many Catholics though, so I can't speak for them. Last but not least, why shouldn't our priest look like Santa Claus, we gave people that character in the first place (the Orthodox saint Nicholas). lol =)
But you don't understend this. Orthodox and Catholics are very similar, and orthodox don't call heresion, partition was only political on Byzantine and Roman patriarches. We need to talk with Orthodox, the best solution is union beetwen orthodox and catholics (like ethiopian church, moronites etc...)
We don't need eccumenism with protestants-they talked too much heresion.
@DavidVelezPerez Exactly. Not all of us want to be. I am Orthodox, but I understand that some people just don't really think it's for them or something, and I understand that and respect it.
i praise this response because this type of response is what will bring our two Churches closer. And the true attitude of the Holy Spirit among us, not the bashing that goes on in other responses
I am having trouble figuring out what kind of services are being performed here. In the 1st church (apparently a Latin Rite church) the Latin cleric is wearing a red baretta. This would suggest he is a cardinal. He isn't wearing the proper vetments for a mass. The bread handed out to the congregation isn't proper for either the Catholic or Orthodox services. They look like ordinary dinner roles. I've seen an Eastern Rite church use such bread. The Ortho. liturgy looks like the final blessing.
This IS video of heresy, Orthodox taking ANY bread from a Latin. What of the 'graven' images (you call statuary). Where are the ikons, women uncovered taking their 'communion'..???
nuduaspiaggia: Your argument that the Church's structure should be like that of the papist "church" is clearly false, since:
(1) historically, the structure has been that of the Orthodox Church;
(2) many patriarchs became heretics; the Bible and the Church Fathers teach that the believers should break ecclesiastic communion with such patriarchs; this is relatively easy if the churches have some independence; but if there is only one leader, breaking communion with him becomes impossible!
Wow, that's a a great argument. So Patriarchy seems to be the immune system of the Orthodox which prevents the spread of heresy throughout the whole body. But the Papists find their unity in one man, and if he errs... the whole body errs with him. ...(cough)Vatican II (chough)
To nojoso: Here is an example: In the 5th Century, when Nestorios, the Patriarch of Constantinople, preached his heresy publickly, many believers broke ecclesiastic communion with him. St. Cyrill, the then Patriarch of Alexandria, wrote letters to them and encouraged them to do so. He also offered to be in communion with them and to restore all the unjust defrocking that Nestorios did. This resistance led to the 4th Ecumenical Council (431 AD), which anathematized Nestorios.
By your argument you have denied the power Christ vested in Peter and his successors. You have denied the authority of Christ; you are not a Christian. Yours is a man-made religion focused on man. When you accept Christ's teaching, you will accept His vicar the pope.
The papists left the Church in 1054 AD; since then they have been manufacturing new anti-christian dogmas and practices. Can't you see that abandoning the Synodical System of the first 10 centuries and believing myths like "Christ vested power in Peter and his successors" amounts to overturning the foundations of the Church?
Can't you see that the some in the East left communion with Christ's Church in 1054? You are a conciliarist, a heretic. Why do you call the Lord's word a myth? Do you dare question Him? Furthermore, the councils of Nicaea and of Chalcedon recognize and solidify the pope's position; your vanity and arrogance is but a barrier between yourselves and the truth.
The Lord's Word has been interpreted by the Ec. Councils and the Church Fathers. According to these interpretations, the Lord said that He will build His Church on Peter's CONFESSION that He is the Son of God, not on Peter himself. The Church functioned properly by abiding by these interpretations. The pope, when he was a member of the Church, had only a primacy of honor, not of authority. The 4th Ec. Council (28th Canon) gave the same primacy to the patriarch of Constantinople.
Wrong, the 28th Canon raised Constantinople above Alexandria and Antioch. Revisit the canon, it says "second to Rome"; Rome is still and always has been supreme. Furthermore, Jesus did not say He built His Church on Peter's confession, put on Peter himself. "Thou are Peter (kefa in Aramaic), and on this rock (kefa again) I shall build my Church..."
The 28th Canon of the 4th Ec. Council gives EXACTLY EQUAL PRIMACY OF HONOUR to the throne of Constantinople. This is the ESSENCE of the Canon. Yes, it mentions that Constantinople existed after Rome and is thus "second in order." This concerns time, not authority. Your interpretation of this sentence contradicts the Canon, so it is wrong. As for Peter allegedly being the rock, the papist interpretation is false, since it is at variance with the Church Fathers and with the Holy Tradition.
Your interpretation of the canon goes against the actual words of the canon.
"And the One Hundred and Fifty most religious Bishops, actuated by the same consideration, gave equal privileges (ἴσα πρεσβεῖα) to the most holy throne of New Rome, justly judging that the city which is honored with the Sovereignty and the Senate and enjoys equal privileges with the old imperial Rome, should in ecclesiastical matters also be magnified as she is, and rank next AFTER her." - Canon XXVIII
The word "after" is indicative of time, not of rank. Also, the word "order" does not mean rank. To see clearly that the papist institution is anti-christian, since, in addition to its many other heresies, it demands primacy in the Church (although itself is outside of the Church), read Mat. 20:20-28. True christians do NOT demand primacies and do NOT exercise authority upon the nations; instead they seek to serve them, just as the Lord did. Understood?
Apostle Paul says: "Warn a heretic once and warn him for a second time; after that leave him; you should know that he sins and is self-condemned" (Tit. 3:10-11). Following Paul's advice, I am leaving you alone.
By definition, an Orthodox Christian is a schismatic. Bring yourself back into communion with Christ. Now is the perfect time to do so for it is Lent, a time of penance.
The Orthodox Church is THE Church of Christ; all the other "christian churches" are simply human organizations providing religious services, just like the other religions, without any divine Grace. Papism is probably the worst of all heresies, even worse than atheism, as Dostoyefski has pointed out. Because atheism preaches nullity, whereas Papism goes beyond that and preaches a distorted Christ. The Holy Lent has just begun. This is a good time for you to consider returning to the Church.
Silly Orthodox, Lent has been going on for a week. If you paid attention to the Council of Nicaea, you'd know that the Roman Patriarch has the privilege of announcing the date of Easter, thus also determining the beginning of Lent. Furthermore, any grace you have as an Orthodox Christian comes from the Catholic Church. Also, Christ tells us His Church is universal, but Orthodox separate by ethnic lines; Catholicism, however, is universal and the only Church of Christ.
@nuduaspiaggia: You just made a fool of yourself!!! The Council of Nicea established the Paschalion, according to which the date of Pascha is determined every year. And decided that whoever changes the Paschalion becomes a STRANGER to the Church (see the 1st Canon of the Council of Antioch). The papists changed the calendar and the Paschalion in 1582. Of course, they had become strangers to the Church long before 1582, but this was just another heresy on top of so many others.
Throw away your heretical "glasses" and then you might hope to make correct guesses. Now you keep being wrong on everything you have written on this post.
The Protestants did the right thing to go away from the anti-christian institution of Papism; their error was not returning to Orthodoxy. By the way, the reason why I am responding to your heretical comments is for the sake of honest people who might be reading these comments.
I respond to yours for others' sake and your own, that you might reunite with the only body of Christ, the one holy catholic and apostolic Church with St. Peter at Her head.
The well-known Serbian Theologian, Archimandrite Justin Popovic (+1979) has written that in human history there have been three big falls: Adam's, Judas's, and pope's. The papist institution continues Judas's treason. At least Judas was able to see his error. The pope is even worse: instead of repenting and crying for his treason, he dares to call the true followers of Christ "schismatics," "heretics," and so on. By doing so, of course, he and his followers simply make fools of themselves.
First, Justin Popovic was not "a mere archimandrite," but a University Professor of Theology. Second, the pope is no patriarch anywhere; he is not even a member of the Church, since he has not been baptized and since he preaches many heresies for which the so called "catholic church" has been anathematized.
I think you should talk to your local Orthodox priests about the wild claims you have. I just spoke with the Greek Orthodox Archimandrite of my city, and he says the official position on Catholicism is that all our sacraments are valid. For this reason, if a Catholic becomes Orthodox, or an Orthodox Catholic, chrismation is done to seal that person's obedience to the pope/patriarch.
Unfortunately, these days the Orthodox Church is full of uniates, ecumenists, free masons, etc. These people, like the "Archimandrite" you have spoken to, are NOT Orthodox christians. "Patriarchs," "Archbishops," etc. are all ecumenists. They trample on the Holy Canons. If they were truly Orthodox, they would NOT be given these thrones. Of course, if you do not know (or do not care about) the Holy Tradition, then you think that these pseudo-orthodox know better and we ought to consult them.
The evidence is overwhelming. In the political arena, most of it is well known; the biggest event I could cite is the imposition of Communism in Russia by the Zionists. In the ecclesiastic arena, things are less well known. In my view, the biggest event is the 1920 Encyclical of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, which preaches formally the heresy of Ecumenism. Since then, many "patriarchs" have been free masons and almost all of them ecumenists.
Try the Balamand Statement, the Thyateira Confession, the British Antiochian Deanery's "Pastoral Guide to the Holy Mysteries", for a start. This is no conspiracy theory. The Ecumenical Patriarchate, to which the Greek church belongs, has been particularly affected by this. The Russian church in Russia was affected during Soviet times when the state forced the church to get involved to "prove" it wasn't being persecuted. Since the fall of the Soviet state, it has been returning to its true path.
The pope is no greaer than the other four patraiches just as st.peter was not greater then the other apostles it was ormes fault for the schism they added the filoque and suddenly wanted authority over the eastern patarcihes
1. If the pope weren't greater than the other patriarchs, then there wouldn't've been an attempt to raise the patriarch of Constantinople to equality with the pope at the Council of Chalcedon, which failed to ratify that article.
2. On the filioque, that is a matter of how Latin works. Procedere has a broader meaning than ἐκπορεύεσθαι and thereby theologically allows filioque due to the very nature of the language. In fact, excluding the filioque results in monothelitism, a heresy.
The patraich of constaniople was actually trying to dispose of the patarcih of alexandria and being recognised by rome the patrcih of antioch is also disposed of since the pentrachy has alexandria then antioch.
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The attempt to raise the Patriarch of Constantinople demonstrates a historic fact that the Roman Patriarch was indeed above the other patriarchs. If the position of a patriarch must rise to meet that of Rome, then it must've been lower to begin with.
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the heresy of monothelitism was much later post council of chalcedon, the church fathers did not accept the creed because it was a heresy it was accepted upon:any change in dogamtic definition will then have a impact on the rest of the dogmas to come e.g the trinity was distorted with the addition of the filoque since all councils after were based on the facts of the creed
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If you actually bothered to learn Latin, you would find that the filioque (accepted in Rome in the 11th century) clarifies the relationship between the Holy Trinity and prevents monothelitism, a form of Arianism.
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the pope was graeter in a political sense with the roman empire during 451 AD around the time of the new rome (constanople) the patarcih of constonaple was also meant to be the first among equals with rome trying also to reason.
The Orthodox Church is the True Church, keeping all traditions from the Apostles and Holy Fathers. All other churches need to return to Orthodoxy: the truth.
What, in today's society? Very wrong. The Orthodox Church is the True Church. Jesus Christ Himself is the only Head, and we, his people, are his body.
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Then why do your patriarchs still pander to secular governments and continue to have issues with each other regarding territory? It's really immature. Don't worry though, the door is always open for you to come home to the Holy Catholic Church.
There are no territory issues. The Orthodox Church is the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. When you are all ready to stop worshiping idols and come back to the Truth, let us know.
That my friend, is due to your lovely help, during the 4th crusade, when the catholic church attacked, plundered and destroyed the christian east. After you managed the way for the muslims to come, you didn´t even bother to help the east, so all the eastern christian churches were under the ottoman occupation for hundreds of years. Being totally freed for not even 100 years, the churches had to manage their territories under the borders of each government, which until then didn´t exist.
We tried helping you in the East, but don't forget that many times the Byzantine emperor would not aid Western crusaders in crossing the Bosphorus. We did not lead the way for Muslim invasion. You cannot blame us for the punishments you've incurred for your schism.
Please! Start reading some history! The History of the Crusades by Steven Runciman would be a good start. The 4th crusade was about to end in Jerusalem, like all crusades supposed to, but instead was just a cheap plot, when for the first time in history, a christian church fighted another. They totally destoryed the east and occupied Constantinople for more than 70 years. So many relics were stolen, that more than 50% of the relics in the catholic church, were stolen from the east.
Not only did no help come, but the catholic church thought it had the right to start crusades and wars in the name of God, which makes them pretty similar to todays muslim-terrorists, who think they can do anything, of which they believe is right.
As well, the catholic throne of Rome has never been the home of any of the eastern churches. Every teritory had its own patriarch, like Rome had his. Don´t forget that there are/were 5 ancient Patriarchates, of which the catholic throne split, not the rest. All dealed in their territories, being all equal leaders of the one, united church. If there were decisions to make, am ecumenical council took place and everything was clear. Things the catholics have forgotten all along the last 1000years
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This is false. The Roman Pontiff enjoys primacy over the other patriarchs, especially in teaching. He is the teacher, they are the students. Furthermore, there was no unanimous agreement to raising Constantinople to a patriarchal see, remember that the pope protested its proposed raising at the Council of Chalcedon.
The Pope enjoys primacy in teaching? Dear, when did you think that up? I am pretty sure that you refer to the primus inter paris, which means first among equals, which was until the 4th Ecumenical Council. He never had to say anything in belongings of the other churches. I have to admit, that there were often times, when even Popes supported the right Dogma, but never has there been a great theologian on the throne of Rome. Most of the churches dogmatic fathers are from the East, like
Kyrill of Alexandria, Athanasios the great, Gregory the Theologian, Maximos the great, John of Damaskus and many, many more. Even Augustine of Hippo, on whom the catholics love to rely, was a bishop that refered to the patriarch of Alexandria. Jerome was also a student of Gregory the Theologian/ Nazianzen, archbishop of Constantinople. As for the primus inter pares, the throne of Rome was elected as the first among equals, simply because it was the throne where the empires capital was.
After Emperor Constantine the great MOVED the capital of the Empire to the east, to the new founded city, called New Rome, the throne of Constantinople simply gained power, because it was the throne of the empires capital. During the 4th Ec.Council, the holy fathers of the church decided to rais the throne of Constantinople from an archdiocese to a patriarchate and make it euqal to throne of ancient Rome.
Of course you have no idea what that means, and I am pretty sure that you have no clue, that it refered to the catholic church. Of course you don´t. Don´t be annoying. READ! Start with Patrologia, Philokalia, Runciman and Romanides.
Why they raised the throne of Constantinople to equality with the throne of Rome and why Rome didn´t simply fall into 2nd place, was because of the following reasons:
Because in the chritian Church everything should be about love and respect, since the patriarchate of Rome had had the first place among EQUALS for at least 3 centuries, in the churches 400year history, it would not be very respectful to downgrade it to the second place. Since however it was no longer the seat of empires capital,
it was no longer the first among equals, but the seat of the throne of the capitals city gained power and respect and as such, the throne of Constantinople was declared a patriarchate and at least equal to the throne of Rome. In point of theology, there is absolutely no reason in claiming any primacies my friend and has nothing to do with rangs!
However, the true point of our discussion, should be the theological problem and not the political! The point is, that after the Franks had gained the power within the Vatican, the churches dogma started to change in what they believed was right. So, after the Franks gained the throne of Rome, they start changing the Creed, which ended in changing the decisions of the first and second Ecumenical Councils.
They started a completely new theology, which was even against the westerns believe and by simly dfferencing from ALL the other CHURCHES, the other churches simply didn´t recognise them as "orthodox" anylonger and stopped having communion with the throne of Rome.After the other 4 patriarchates were conquered by the muslims, while the West didn´t do ANYTHING to help, all those churches lost their power and only wanted to survive.
The shismatic throne of Rome however, was the only patriarchate of the former 5 which survived and raged to cruelty over the whole western world, by standing against science and everything that was against the believe of the Franks. They burned ppl as witches, started and decided about wars and killed many millions in the name of God, which leads us to the conclusion I told you before, that they were no better than terrorists.
You realize you're just repeating made up and distorted tales from Protestants right? Don't forget that Roger Bacon, a Franciscan monk, was the first to establish the scientific method. The university system was also started by the Holy Catholic Church. Also, only Rome remains in communion with Christ, the East left Him.
I just wasted my time by explaining things to some retarted guy who can´t come up with any arguments..........
Made up? Right! Like the concentration camps never existed and never killed millions of ppl. Like Stepinak didn´t support the massakers of about 2 million Serbian and Croatic orthodox believers. Like Escriva wasn´t close to the Spanish dictator Francisco Franco, and like he was not pro-Nazi. Man, you really should start reading. And I mean read, until your eyes fall off. U need it.
Dont you dare say that Saint Joesemaria Escrivaa was ever close to the Spanish dictator, my friend before you insult the Catholic Church the one and only true Church get your facts straight, why the Eastern Churches split from Rome, to caught up in your own pride to Deny the Papacy which only comes from Rome which CHRIST himself instituted, if your to ignorant to see that then, there's a problem with your understanding of Biblical scripture read for yourself. PAX
The city of God is not an earthly city it is a heavenly one! the thought that ONLY the spiritual father of Rome can lead the Church is absurd! Also the Romans and the Eastern church split from one another mutually in 1054, and the final separation occurred in the 13th century when the Crusaders sacked Byzantium and instituted a Roman bishop! It was ROME who severed the final tie to the true Church, the one built on the rock of Peters faith, the confession of Christ as the eternal Son of God.
the Orthodox church is the true church. the catholics split off from the Orthodox because the pope wanted to control things and change things that could not be changed. Orthodoxy is the original church and it follows the teaching of Christ.
"Orthodox Church consider themselves to be members of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, a claim also held by the Assyrian Church, the Coptic Church, and what is today referred to in the Western World as the Roman Catholic Church."
Looks like a joint liturgy of east and western christians in a western church. I was a Melkite for years, and the only way you'd could tell who was what is listen for the Bishops listed in the prayers. The first Bishop mentioned was the Pope of Rome. The rest of the liturgy was the same as our Orthodox Bretheren. Even the Creed was the same as the Orthodox(without the filioque). Even the word Orthodox was used in the liturgy. I was taught in the Melkite church there were 7 councils, that was it.
I would CATHOLICKS and ORTHODOX together,Protestant must be or CATHOLICK or ORTHODOX!
MrBOMBA1916 1 week ago
CATHOLICKS and ORTHODOX is reall CHRIST CHURCH !
Protestant Mr are Kalwin and Luter !
CATHOLICKS AND ORTHODOX FOREVER !!!!!
MrBOMBA1916 1 week ago
Ecumenism is the Heresy of Heresies as the Holy Fathers said. Orthodoxy has nothing to do with RCC.
We are not the same and we have nothing in common.
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
eraser695
There can be no unity as long as the catholic church keeps the innovations that separates the roman catholic church from the unified church that existed in the east and in the west duting the first millenia. The union must be a union in Truth and Love.
OrthodoxiaThanatos 6 months ago
Comment removed
OrthodoxiaThanatos 6 months ago
The church must unite once more. It is time to put chidish things away. There is a great threat, which is modernism, it has been slowly leaking it to the church on both sides, that is the east and the west. It is time the 5 sees once again met and laid down an authoritative command. It has been far to long and the devil is starting to wear us down. A house divded against itself can not stand. It is time to unite and bring back an authoritative church, that requires all 5 sees.
gtepp031387 8 months ago
Pray for unity amongst all Christians!!!
Hosea22 1 year ago
In my hometown, Holy Week and Christmas is celebrated between the Anglican and Roman Catholic parishes
CommieThreat 1 year ago
@CommieThreat No Anglican or Man Made Churches Only God and His Roman Catholic Church....
eraser695 1 year ago
@eraser695 Please remember that the Catholic church is made of 22 different rites (the roman being only one, and not even the oldest)
mateodorio 1 year ago
@mateodorio Oh thanks for reminding. Jesus came 600 years after Isiah that doesn't mean He is lesser than him. He is God. Tell me One thing how many died in ROME? You can not even estimate them. Though We are the Catholics from Pakistan and got a Rite of Syro - Malabar of St. Thomas but this rite never betray it from the Holy See and kept loyal to St. Peter. Now what we are called Roman Catholics. The Eastern Rites betray first and now are coming in full Communion with Rome. You Check history...
eraser695 1 year ago
@mateodorio Another thing what if I say that Roman or Latin Rite is the Oldest Rite of the History. I can prove it. St. Peter was the oldest and most powerful representative of Apostles. He was chosen to convert Rome the then Super Power who was reigning the Whole World including the East. And he was successful. And through St. Peter we got this Rite. After the conversion of Helen the Kingdom of Rome surrendered to Christianity. Roman is the most ancient Rite.
eraser695 1 year ago
@eraser695 How can Rome be the "most ancient rite" when Christianity spread from the East? Jerusalem was the first church, and missions spread from there to Antioch, Alexandria, Asia Minor. The oldest Christian communities are in the Middle East and Armenia. Peter was just leader of the Apostles. St. James presided over the Jerusalem Synods, not Peter.All church matters were decided by a council. Not one Apostle ruling over another. There is no proof that Peter was in Rome preaching.
trueorthodoxfaith 7 months ago
@trueorthodoxfaith Brother don't argue on that. It can not be said the one who embraced Christ first is the most Ancient. Catholics (Apostles) have just One goal which was to Convert pagan Rome as it was not just the Heart of the Empire but the Heart of the Whole World. If the East was in the Path of the Apostles it got converted.
eraser695 7 months ago
@trueorthodoxfaith You are absolutely right brother the Councils were held but don't you Know Peter was present in Every Council and nothing new was introduced in Christendom without the permission of Peter. Your Church was founded by Michael 1 Celarius, I know it very well. Paul on the issue of Circumcision first Came to Peter not James. Peter was the Chosen one for Babylon. If not then why you call Istanbul (New Rome) just start calling it New Jerusalem or New Antioch or New Alexandria.
eraser695 7 months ago
@trueorthodoxfaith Crusades were held to protect the Byzantine Empire not the Holy Roman Empire. We have sacrificed our lives for you but You Responded Our Kindness by Killing the Latins in Constantinople and you deserved the Sack because you raped our Latin Women. Still Pope apologized for the Sack of Constantinople from the Patriarch in 2005. Did Patriarch apologized for the Massacre of Latins his predecessors held?
eraser695 7 months ago
@eraser695 You are mislead and misinformed. The Crusades weakened the Eastern Empire. It destroyed not only Constantinople, but Antioch and Jerusalem. It allowed for the Turks to take control and because of a much weakened church, the Latins set up their own bishops.. The crusaders destroyed Orthodox Churches, raped, pillaged and burned. The anger and frustration from the Orthodox populous against the Latins, was uncalled for, but the crusaders damage and destruction was more monumental.
trueorthodoxfaith 7 months ago
@trueorthodoxfaith Liar I am not mislead as No Catholic Priest pumped us against Orthodox. Our Catholics are that much innocent that they are making brotherhood with wolves like Orthodox. What you did in Catholic Serbia? What you Orthodox did in Catholic Croatia? What your Orthodox priests did in Catholic Poland? What are you doing in Albania? I would bring your inquisitions to the World thats a Promise.
eraser695 7 months ago
@eraser695 You are really off base .It was the Catholic Croation Ustashe who massacred the Orthodox Serbians., 700,000 Serbians killed. After 1917 Catholic interventionists attacked the Orthodox Church in Ukraine. Hundreds of Ukrainian Orthodox priests eliminated and tortured by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists. In 1938-1939, in Western Ukraine the Polish government oversaw the destruction of over 190 Orthodox Churches, and many more turned over to the Latin rite.
trueorthodoxfaith 7 months ago
@trueorthodoxfaith Oh you have no proof. I can say you massacred 10000000000000000000000 Latins but what the proof go and read history first. There were only to Patriarchates one Rome the other Constantinople. Michael 1 Cellarius get you separated from Peter.
eraser695 7 months ago
@eraser695 You do not know history at all. It was the Latin delegates in Constantinople that excommunicated the East, It was Cardinal Humbert that excommunicated Cerularius. Rome separated from the Eastern Orthodox .
The early Church had five Patriarchs: Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Rome, and Constantinople.
For your info my comments are factual. Who could make up something as that? Don't be ignorant.
trueorthodoxfaith 7 months ago
@trueorthodoxfaith Well well well the excommunication was Invalid as Cardinal was not the Bishop of Rome. Now from your own mouth you accepted the Orthodox was the Part of Catholic but why it is difficult for you to accept the Re - Union if your Patriarch is agreed.
eraser695 7 months ago
@eraser695 No Patriarch has agreed on any union with the Latin church. There have been talks that have gone nowhere.
The excommunication by Cardinal Humbert was valid , he was a representative of the Pope's delegation.
The Orthodox are the one Holy ,Catholic and Apostolic Church.
trueorthodoxfaith 7 months ago
@trueorthodoxfaith The Catholic is the Only Holy and Apostolic Church.
Where in the Bible the Orthodox is. The True Church is Where there is Peter. I am against the Union but Respect my Elders you are Opposite.
eraser695 7 months ago
@eraser695 Where in the Bible is the Roman Catholic Church? The word "catholic" in Scriptures and the early church means universal/whole, not Latin or Roman. The word orthodox defines the right faith or true teachings, which the Orthodox Church is. The Orthodox have not deviated from the true faith and teachings. Rome has deviated.If the true church is where Peter is, then since Peter established the churches in both Antioch and Alexandria, then these two places are also the true church.
trueorthodoxfaith 7 months ago
@trueorthodoxfaith I never used the word Roman nor I am Roman. I am a Syro - Malankara Rite Catholic converted from Orthodoxy. You know the Only problem with you is Your ARROGANCE, thats why you are still falling apart.
eraser695 7 months ago
@eraser695 You are confusing arrogance with factual. That's a pity.How is the Orthodox falling apart? Just don't make blind comments without the facts. The Latin church fell apart some time ago. The Protestant Reformation, the Anglican Church, Old and Traditional catholic groups not in communion with the pope. All these split from Rome.
trueorthodoxfaith 7 months ago
@trueorthodoxfaith Okay but I tell you something really I didn't know about that. I was a Bit Confused the the Pope send an Apology for the sack of Constantinople to the Patriarch but I thought it was the Patriarch of Russia may be Alexus but it was Bartholomev. But I tell you something don't take it offensive the Unity doesn't mean that we should accept the doctrines of each but Unity means that we should stand with one another. Thats my perspective. What about you?
eraser695 7 months ago
@eraser695 The destruction of Orthodox Churches by the Poles and Uniats, was happening all over the Carpathian regions in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Western Ukraine.
Around 1914 the Austro-Hungarian Empire eradicates Orthodox believers. A great number are sent to concentration camps. Talerhof & Terezin.
The papally sponsored crusades ,the Teutonic Knights, who came pillaging and raping against the Orthodox in Russia.
There is more. Rome has blood on their hands.
trueorthodoxfaith 7 months ago
@trueorthodoxfaith I will not say a word further because Our Pontiff is guided by the Holy Ghost. The second thing is you are REFUTING by your own tongue your own Patriarch who is looking forward for unity as Islam is eliminating Orthodox Faith. I have no problem in accepting you as my brother then why you have?
eraser695 7 months ago
@eraser695 The whole Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. There exists many Patriarchs in the Orthodox Church. The Patriarch of Constantinople is the only one who is being friendly to the Latin Church.
trueorthodoxfaith 7 months ago
@trueorthodoxfaith Yes, but I really want to learn. Is Constantinople not your Supremo (Ecumenical)? Please I don't want to fight as we both profess the Same Christ and Trinity. Tell me briefly. Or you can PM me.
eraser695 7 months ago
@eraser695 There is no 'supremo" in Orthodoxy. All Patriarchs have an equal status.
trueorthodoxfaith 7 months ago
@trueorthodoxfaith Ok then the Patriarch of Constantinople and Russia are different? Brother please be friendly.
eraser695 7 months ago
@eraser695 No, the Patriarch in Russia, and the Patriarch in Constantinople, and the Patriarch in Jerusalem and the Patriarch in Serbia, are all the same, they follow and preach the same faith, the same Orthodox Faith.
trueorthodoxfaith 7 months ago
@trueorthodoxfaith Okay but I tell you something really I didn't know about that. I was a Bit Confused the the Pope send an Apology for the sack of Constantinople to the Patriarch but I thought it was the Patriarch of Russia may be Alexus but it was Bartholomev. But I tell you something don't take it offensive the Unity doesn't mean that we should accept the doctrines of each but Unity means that we should stand with one another. Thats my perspective. What about you?
eraser695 7 months ago
@mateodorio Where do you get the number 22 from? I am aware of only 7.
theatwo 1 year ago
Contrary to what the "ecumenical movement" would say, it cannot be ignored that there are some strikingly important differences between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy. These go way beyond even 'just' the filioque and papal primacy/infallibility. Our whole view of God and who is God is entirely different.
mctav2010 1 year ago
@RedBloodedShqiponja
God bless you !
doncoro 1 year ago
There is only ONE GOD, a lot more mercyful than most ignorants believe, that loves and takes care of all his creatures, no matter their religions.
I wish we catholics had a better Pope.
doncoro 1 year ago
@doncoro Viva La Papa Benedict XVI. Hit the traditionalist.....lolx
eraser695 1 year ago
To those who make hateful comments on this page, may you be free from fear, may you be free from hatred, may you be free from ignorance. Fear and hatred are a result of ignorance. May you have peace.
With loving-kindness <3
Chichiri520 1 year ago
It is hard for some Catholic and Orthodox to get past political, cultural, and historical differences. On the important issues, we are the same. We believe in salvation by the sacrifice of Christ, by grace, by repentence, by faith worked out in hope and love, and by perseverence. We have the Divine Liturgy/Mass, the priesthood, the Eucharist. We pray for the dead, we venerate Mary and the Saints. Let us look to St Maximos the Confessor, who knew that we had the same faith but had difft cultures.
MuffinMario 1 year ago
herezy
zoonr5 1 year ago
i have nothing with catolics. but i cant think of an unification. it is too diferent even it doesnt seem so.
catholics wouldnt renounce at their norms orthodox either.
tranceandsun 1 year ago
why hate between catholic and orthodox?? they are so smillar! the only difference is the pope and the calender, but as i know greek orthodox got different high days (right word?) than russian orthodox, as i know between the orthodox are differences too, which are as "big" as the between for example greek orthodox and roman-catholic
mrkzZz 2 years ago
and i bet, nearly all orthodox and catholic who talk such a shit about catholic and orthodox are serbians and croatians, forget the fucking war. you know that a catholic priest is allowed to make a worship in orthodox church and contrary it's allowed, too, as orthodox you are allowed to get the communion in catholic churches and a catholic is allowed to get them in orthodox churches! protestands aren't allowed to do that.
mrkzZz 2 years ago
@mrkzZz @mrkzZz lol dude catholics invented purgatory dissolved sacraments they went far away of holy spirit.
.i can say many of them worship pope.Catholics from all around the world rather prefer to be at the "holy land" Vatican at Easter night then at jerusalem at jesus grave.
tranceandsun 1 year ago
@mrkzZz
It is ignorance from their side that produces hatred for no good reason. Fear is the result of this ignorance.
Chichiri520 1 year ago
Communion-comes from Jesus christ.
slavicman09 2 years ago
@fasoladatromeri2 This is exactly the type of comment that God would smile upon. =)
ilbill220 2 years ago
Why so much hate between the two churches? They're very close, most of the differences are very trivial, well except for that little Crusades bit, but I'm going to leave that out ;). I agree with DavidVelezPerez, we should have peace, ecemunism isn't necessary, only peace. =)
numb98726 2 years ago
One of the reasons why did christianity split is the one that in crusade wars,crusaders attacked their christian fellow byzantine empire who supported crusaders... They were led by greed and abadoned the holy war and robbed constantinopole-christian city... that crusader war failed coz they killed christian people instead conquering non-christian countries... Because of that shameful act the christianity split... and later it split again when(protestants split from chatolics)
Laki199205 2 years ago
It never ceases to amaze me how the Orthodox continue bringing up the crusades while conveniently acting amnestic when it comes to the BATTLE OF LEPANTO when us Spaniards defeated your greatest enemy.
Cotoredondo 2 years ago
well, now we're even aren't we. =)
numb98726 2 years ago
LOL. I reckon so. :)
Cotoredondo 2 years ago
@Cotoredondo Yeah Spain's cool anyway. Maximus from Gladiator was a Spaniard; this officially makes Spain cool.
ilbill220 2 years ago
I would rather convert to pagan than join with heretics... belivings are mostly same but catholic faith have some major differences which are very immportant to us , so immportant that we wont join till catholics accept the true way , our way... almost 1000 years catholics refuse to leave heresy so it'll be immpossible to unify.Also catholics crusaders ruined orthodox byzantine empire and u did bad things to many other orthodox christians so we basicaly HATE U HERETICS AND WE WONT JOIN WITH U!!!
MilanSRBENDA 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Shut the fuck up Ortho-bitch, here kiss my arse!
DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
Screw u Canto-bitchs. I dont kiss asses of heretical scum , stupid heretic...
MilanSRBENDA 2 years ago
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DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
In Serbian language Canta means "the bucket" stupid idiot,so Canto-bitches means "bucket-bitches",and why bucket? Coz u get fucked on gay parades and u need buckets so u can shit sperm out of ur asses in something.Go fuck urself stupid idiots... in ur countries gays roam free and in orthodox countries they get harsh lesson.Here gay parades are made by military support coz tons and tons of faithful orthodox comes to kill ur brothers faggots.U tell ur priest to put down albanian hat from his head.
MilanSRBENDA 2 years ago
Also btw put down stupid spikes from ur churches , they much more look like giant pitchforks than churches this way. Also , u say that we use idoltary but u made 40 meters high idol of jesus and u make idols of mary , jesus and others. U are retarded. Go fuck yourself idiots.
MilanSRBENDA 2 years ago
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DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
I am not anti-black myself. If we are not anti-jew than we are anti-muslim and thats even worser than being anti-jew. But we dont like them both. And u shouldnt love jews too. They killed jesus idiot. They expected messiah to come with pocket deeper than his pants and with goleden toga or whatever...We are anti-catholic coz u did many bad things to us trough history,worst one is attack on sanctuary of orthodoxity and pillaging and robbing of orthodox churches during it , BARBARIANS!!! HEATHEN!!!
MilanSRBENDA 2 years ago
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DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
U robbed them coz u hate us. We hate u coz u hate u. U hate us coz we dont want to obey the popes tyrany and we hate u coz u want to make us obey popes tyranny. U want to ignore mine comment coz u cant accept the truth and under those "comments" u mean those which proves catholics more bad than we are. Btw russians robbed catholic churches all over poland and lithuania , teutonic monasteries burnt etc. Revenge is sweet. Btw I am glad muslims robbed spain and I am glad protestants broke away.
MilanSRBENDA 2 years ago
what a load of bullshit!! even jesus forgave the jews why shouldnt we forgive them!!! get a life you stupid orthodox son of a shit
cr7voyage 2 years ago
I dont hate jews coz of that , I know he forgave them... I know they were the sacred people till they went in sin. But I have a other reason to hate jews. They support everything whats against Serbia and Russia so I hate it coz of that too. They even armed lots of albanian terrorists too!!! I gota reason to hate them... But from religious view I dont have a reason to hate them...
MilanSRBENDA 2 years ago
Right, tolerance, they taught you that really well... I also think it's not really an Orthodox thing, it's just an eastern slavic thing. I'm part Ukrainian and Russian, and I grew up with intolerant people (parents' friends). I've seen and met intolerant people of all religions, I haven't seen many Catholics though, so I can't speak for them. Last but not least, why shouldn't our priest look like Santa Claus, we gave people that character in the first place (the Orthodox saint Nicholas). lol =)
numb98726 2 years ago
Ortodox and Romanian Churces are the same faith. Traditional Greek-mass is very similar to catolic Tridentae mass.
I think we need eccumenism with Orthodox and Catholics, but never with heretics-protestants.
KOF89 2 years ago
Ecueminism isn't neccasary, peace is good, but not ecuemunism, I don't think I want to be Orthodox.
DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
But you don't understend this. Orthodox and Catholics are very similar, and orthodox don't call heresion, partition was only political on Byzantine and Roman patriarches. We need to talk with Orthodox, the best solution is union beetwen orthodox and catholics (like ethiopian church, moronites etc...)
We don't need eccumenism with protestants-they talked too much heresion.
KOF89 2 years ago
@DavidVelezPerez Exactly. Not all of us want to be. I am Orthodox, but I understand that some people just don't really think it's for them or something, and I understand that and respect it.
ilbill220 2 years ago
i praise this response because this type of response is what will bring our two Churches closer. And the true attitude of the Holy Spirit among us, not the bashing that goes on in other responses
briu93 2 years ago
Przemawia przez Ciebie zawiść, nic więcej. Nienawidzisz Katolików bo zarazili cię nienawiścią.
KOF89 2 years ago
Together? Never! Long live the Orthodox people, we can't trust anymore the catholic church.
AcoK93 2 years ago
but we can trust in jesus christ to make us one church again with the real true faith
theodrethecoptic2 2 years ago 2
There already is one church, the Orthodox Church... we don't need to make one church "again" because the Church is already united.
avantibarbari 2 years ago
i believe that god can make us christians (orthodox and catholics) one church again like the first church
btw i am a coptic orthodox from egypt
theodrethecoptic2 2 years ago 4
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DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
who's piece of music is this?
The piano sound is really nice
which composer?Cophin,Franzlist,Schubert,schumann,Rachmaninoff,?
Hope from romantic classical era.
KevinR3i 2 years ago
I am having trouble figuring out what kind of services are being performed here. In the 1st church (apparently a Latin Rite church) the Latin cleric is wearing a red baretta. This would suggest he is a cardinal. He isn't wearing the proper vetments for a mass. The bread handed out to the congregation isn't proper for either the Catholic or Orthodox services. They look like ordinary dinner roles. I've seen an Eastern Rite church use such bread. The Ortho. liturgy looks like the final blessing.
VictorLepanto 3 years ago
beautiful..
lukamamatoto 3 years ago
This IS video of heresy, Orthodox taking ANY bread from a Latin. What of the 'graven' images (you call statuary). Where are the ikons, women uncovered taking their 'communion'..???
novokarpati 3 years ago
nuduaspiaggia: Your argument that the Church's structure should be like that of the papist "church" is clearly false, since:
(1) historically, the structure has been that of the Orthodox Church;
(2) many patriarchs became heretics; the Bible and the Church Fathers teach that the believers should break ecclesiastic communion with such patriarchs; this is relatively easy if the churches have some independence; but if there is only one leader, breaking communion with him becomes impossible!
dhatzinik 3 years ago
Wow, that's a a great argument. So Patriarchy seems to be the immune system of the Orthodox which prevents the spread of heresy throughout the whole body. But the Papists find their unity in one man, and if he errs... the whole body errs with him. ...(cough)Vatican II (chough)
nojoso 3 years ago
To nojoso: Here is an example: In the 5th Century, when Nestorios, the Patriarch of Constantinople, preached his heresy publickly, many believers broke ecclesiastic communion with him. St. Cyrill, the then Patriarch of Alexandria, wrote letters to them and encouraged them to do so. He also offered to be in communion with them and to restore all the unjust defrocking that Nestorios did. This resistance led to the 4th Ecumenical Council (431 AD), which anathematized Nestorios.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
By your argument you have denied the power Christ vested in Peter and his successors. You have denied the authority of Christ; you are not a Christian. Yours is a man-made religion focused on man. When you accept Christ's teaching, you will accept His vicar the pope.
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
The papists left the Church in 1054 AD; since then they have been manufacturing new anti-christian dogmas and practices. Can't you see that abandoning the Synodical System of the first 10 centuries and believing myths like "Christ vested power in Peter and his successors" amounts to overturning the foundations of the Church?
dhatzinik 3 years ago
Can't you see that the some in the East left communion with Christ's Church in 1054? You are a conciliarist, a heretic. Why do you call the Lord's word a myth? Do you dare question Him? Furthermore, the councils of Nicaea and of Chalcedon recognize and solidify the pope's position; your vanity and arrogance is but a barrier between yourselves and the truth.
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
The Lord's Word has been interpreted by the Ec. Councils and the Church Fathers. According to these interpretations, the Lord said that He will build His Church on Peter's CONFESSION that He is the Son of God, not on Peter himself. The Church functioned properly by abiding by these interpretations. The pope, when he was a member of the Church, had only a primacy of honor, not of authority. The 4th Ec. Council (28th Canon) gave the same primacy to the patriarch of Constantinople.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
Wrong, the 28th Canon raised Constantinople above Alexandria and Antioch. Revisit the canon, it says "second to Rome"; Rome is still and always has been supreme. Furthermore, Jesus did not say He built His Church on Peter's confession, put on Peter himself. "Thou are Peter (kefa in Aramaic), and on this rock (kefa again) I shall build my Church..."
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
The 28th Canon of the 4th Ec. Council gives EXACTLY EQUAL PRIMACY OF HONOUR to the throne of Constantinople. This is the ESSENCE of the Canon. Yes, it mentions that Constantinople existed after Rome and is thus "second in order." This concerns time, not authority. Your interpretation of this sentence contradicts the Canon, so it is wrong. As for Peter allegedly being the rock, the papist interpretation is false, since it is at variance with the Church Fathers and with the Holy Tradition.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
Your interpretation of the canon goes against the actual words of the canon.
"And the One Hundred and Fifty most religious Bishops, actuated by the same consideration, gave equal privileges (ἴσα πρεσβεῖα) to the most holy throne of New Rome, justly judging that the city which is honored with the Sovereignty and the Senate and enjoys equal privileges with the old imperial Rome, should in ecclesiastical matters also be magnified as she is, and rank next AFTER her." - Canon XXVIII
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
So, according to you, "equal" means "unequal"!!! End of discussion!
dhatzinik 3 years ago
According to you "after" means "on par." Go to your heresy and suffer in Purgatory should you escape the Inferno!
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
The word "after" is indicative of time, not of rank. Also, the word "order" does not mean rank. To see clearly that the papist institution is anti-christian, since, in addition to its many other heresies, it demands primacy in the Church (although itself is outside of the Church), read Mat. 20:20-28. True christians do NOT demand primacies and do NOT exercise authority upon the nations; instead they seek to serve them, just as the Lord did. Understood?
dhatzinik 3 years ago
Talk to me when you've crossed the Tiber, schismatic.
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
Apostle Paul says: "Warn a heretic once and warn him for a second time; after that leave him; you should know that he sins and is self-condemned" (Tit. 3:10-11). Following Paul's advice, I am leaving you alone.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
I knew it! You are no Christian; you are a Paulist!
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
I am an Orthodox Christian and have an obligation to confess the truth always and everywhere. May God help you see the Light, I can't.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
By definition, an Orthodox Christian is a schismatic. Bring yourself back into communion with Christ. Now is the perfect time to do so for it is Lent, a time of penance.
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
The Orthodox Church is THE Church of Christ; all the other "christian churches" are simply human organizations providing religious services, just like the other religions, without any divine Grace. Papism is probably the worst of all heresies, even worse than atheism, as Dostoyefski has pointed out. Because atheism preaches nullity, whereas Papism goes beyond that and preaches a distorted Christ. The Holy Lent has just begun. This is a good time for you to consider returning to the Church.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
Silly Orthodox, Lent has been going on for a week. If you paid attention to the Council of Nicaea, you'd know that the Roman Patriarch has the privilege of announcing the date of Easter, thus also determining the beginning of Lent. Furthermore, any grace you have as an Orthodox Christian comes from the Catholic Church. Also, Christ tells us His Church is universal, but Orthodox separate by ethnic lines; Catholicism, however, is universal and the only Church of Christ.
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
@nuduaspiaggia: You just made a fool of yourself!!! The Council of Nicea established the Paschalion, according to which the date of Pascha is determined every year. And decided that whoever changes the Paschalion becomes a STRANGER to the Church (see the 1st Canon of the Council of Antioch). The papists changed the calendar and the Paschalion in 1582. Of course, they had become strangers to the Church long before 1582, but this was just another heresy on top of so many others.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
You mustn't know how to read I guess.
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
Throw away your heretical "glasses" and then you might hope to make correct guesses. Now you keep being wrong on everything you have written on this post.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
Oh did you write something? You know, protesting us turns you into a Protestant.
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
The Protestants did the right thing to go away from the anti-christian institution of Papism; their error was not returning to Orthodoxy. By the way, the reason why I am responding to your heretical comments is for the sake of honest people who might be reading these comments.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
I respond to yours for others' sake and your own, that you might reunite with the only body of Christ, the one holy catholic and apostolic Church with St. Peter at Her head.
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
The well-known Serbian Theologian, Archimandrite Justin Popovic (+1979) has written that in human history there have been three big falls: Adam's, Judas's, and pope's. The papist institution continues Judas's treason. At least Judas was able to see his error. The pope is even worse: instead of repenting and crying for his treason, he dares to call the true followers of Christ "schismatics," "heretics," and so on. By doing so, of course, he and his followers simply make fools of themselves.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
Why should I believe a mere archimandrite who is no more than a gyrovague when it comes to faith over the Patriarch of the West?
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
First, Justin Popovic was not "a mere archimandrite," but a University Professor of Theology. Second, the pope is no patriarch anywhere; he is not even a member of the Church, since he has not been baptized and since he preaches many heresies for which the so called "catholic church" has been anathematized.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
I think you should talk to your local Orthodox priests about the wild claims you have. I just spoke with the Greek Orthodox Archimandrite of my city, and he says the official position on Catholicism is that all our sacraments are valid. For this reason, if a Catholic becomes Orthodox, or an Orthodox Catholic, chrismation is done to seal that person's obedience to the pope/patriarch.
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
Unfortunately, these days the Orthodox Church is full of uniates, ecumenists, free masons, etc. These people, like the "Archimandrite" you have spoken to, are NOT Orthodox christians. "Patriarchs," "Archbishops," etc. are all ecumenists. They trample on the Holy Canons. If they were truly Orthodox, they would NOT be given these thrones. Of course, if you do not know (or do not care about) the Holy Tradition, then you think that these pseudo-orthodox know better and we ought to consult them.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
You ever think that maybe you might believe a tad much in conspiracy theories?
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
These are not "theories" anymore; the facts are facts and speak for themselves. Ignoring them would be an ostrich-kind of behavior.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
Okay, but so far you cite none.
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
The evidence is overwhelming. In the political arena, most of it is well known; the biggest event I could cite is the imposition of Communism in Russia by the Zionists. In the ecclesiastic arena, things are less well known. In my view, the biggest event is the 1920 Encyclical of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, which preaches formally the heresy of Ecumenism. Since then, many "patriarchs" have been free masons and almost all of them ecumenists.
dhatzinik 3 years ago
You're going way too far into "alternative" histories.
nuduaspiaggia 3 years ago
Try the Balamand Statement, the Thyateira Confession, the British Antiochian Deanery's "Pastoral Guide to the Holy Mysteries", for a start. This is no conspiracy theory. The Ecumenical Patriarchate, to which the Greek church belongs, has been particularly affected by this. The Russian church in Russia was affected during Soviet times when the state forced the church to get involved to "prove" it wasn't being persecuted. Since the fall of the Soviet state, it has been returning to its true path.
readermichael 2 years ago
You should reunite with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church with JESUS CHRIST at its head: The ORTHODOX CHURCH.
CalicoJack27 2 years ago
Exactly! And the pope is Christ's representative on earth. If you are against him, you are against Christ.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
The pope is no greaer than the other four patraiches just as st.peter was not greater then the other apostles it was ormes fault for the schism they added the filoque and suddenly wanted authority over the eastern patarcihes
4asa 2 years ago
1. If the pope weren't greater than the other patriarchs, then there wouldn't've been an attempt to raise the patriarch of Constantinople to equality with the pope at the Council of Chalcedon, which failed to ratify that article.
2. On the filioque, that is a matter of how Latin works. Procedere has a broader meaning than ἐκπορεύεσθαι and thereby theologically allows filioque due to the very nature of the language. In fact, excluding the filioque results in monothelitism, a heresy.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
The patraich of constaniople was actually trying to dispose of the patarcih of alexandria and being recognised by rome the patrcih of antioch is also disposed of since the pentrachy has alexandria then antioch.
EgYpTiAn8AddIcTiAn 2 years ago
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The attempt to raise the Patriarch of Constantinople demonstrates a historic fact that the Roman Patriarch was indeed above the other patriarchs. If the position of a patriarch must rise to meet that of Rome, then it must've been lower to begin with.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
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the heresy of monothelitism was much later post council of chalcedon, the church fathers did not accept the creed because it was a heresy it was accepted upon:any change in dogamtic definition will then have a impact on the rest of the dogmas to come e.g the trinity was distorted with the addition of the filoque since all councils after were based on the facts of the creed
EgYpTiAn8AddIcTiAn 2 years ago
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If you actually bothered to learn Latin, you would find that the filioque (accepted in Rome in the 11th century) clarifies the relationship between the Holy Trinity and prevents monothelitism, a form of Arianism.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
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the pope was graeter in a political sense with the roman empire during 451 AD around the time of the new rome (constanople) the patarcih of constonaple was also meant to be the first among equals with rome trying also to reason.
EgYpTiAn8AddIcTiAn 2 years ago
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nikolaidis6 2 years ago
The Orthodox Church is the True Church, keeping all traditions from the Apostles and Holy Fathers. All other churches need to return to Orthodoxy: the truth.
nikolaidis6 2 years ago 6
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This is untrue. You are caesaropapists.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
What, in today's society? Very wrong. The Orthodox Church is the True Church. Jesus Christ Himself is the only Head, and we, his people, are his body.
nikolaidis6 2 years ago 6
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Then why do your patriarchs still pander to secular governments and continue to have issues with each other regarding territory? It's really immature. Don't worry though, the door is always open for you to come home to the Holy Catholic Church.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
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nikolaidis6 2 years ago
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There are no territory issues. The Orthodox Church is the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. When you are all ready to stop worshiping idols and come back to the Truth, let us know.
nikolaidis6 2 years ago
That my friend, is due to your lovely help, during the 4th crusade, when the catholic church attacked, plundered and destroyed the christian east. After you managed the way for the muslims to come, you didn´t even bother to help the east, so all the eastern christian churches were under the ottoman occupation for hundreds of years. Being totally freed for not even 100 years, the churches had to manage their territories under the borders of each government, which until then didn´t exist.
pprhous 2 years ago 10
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We tried helping you in the East, but don't forget that many times the Byzantine emperor would not aid Western crusaders in crossing the Bosphorus. We did not lead the way for Muslim invasion. You cannot blame us for the punishments you've incurred for your schism.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
Please! Start reading some history! The History of the Crusades by Steven Runciman would be a good start. The 4th crusade was about to end in Jerusalem, like all crusades supposed to, but instead was just a cheap plot, when for the first time in history, a christian church fighted another. They totally destoryed the east and occupied Constantinople for more than 70 years. So many relics were stolen, that more than 50% of the relics in the catholic church, were stolen from the east.
pprhous 2 years ago 10
Not only did no help come, but the catholic church thought it had the right to start crusades and wars in the name of God, which makes them pretty similar to todays muslim-terrorists, who think they can do anything, of which they believe is right.
pprhous 2 years ago 10
As well, the catholic throne of Rome has never been the home of any of the eastern churches. Every teritory had its own patriarch, like Rome had his. Don´t forget that there are/were 5 ancient Patriarchates, of which the catholic throne split, not the rest. All dealed in their territories, being all equal leaders of the one, united church. If there were decisions to make, am ecumenical council took place and everything was clear. Things the catholics have forgotten all along the last 1000years
pprhous 2 years ago 10
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This is false. The Roman Pontiff enjoys primacy over the other patriarchs, especially in teaching. He is the teacher, they are the students. Furthermore, there was no unanimous agreement to raising Constantinople to a patriarchal see, remember that the pope protested its proposed raising at the Council of Chalcedon.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
The Pope enjoys primacy in teaching? Dear, when did you think that up? I am pretty sure that you refer to the primus inter paris, which means first among equals, which was until the 4th Ecumenical Council. He never had to say anything in belongings of the other churches. I have to admit, that there were often times, when even Popes supported the right Dogma, but never has there been a great theologian on the throne of Rome. Most of the churches dogmatic fathers are from the East, like
pprhous 2 years ago 10
Kyrill of Alexandria, Athanasios the great, Gregory the Theologian, Maximos the great, John of Damaskus and many, many more. Even Augustine of Hippo, on whom the catholics love to rely, was a bishop that refered to the patriarch of Alexandria. Jerome was also a student of Gregory the Theologian/ Nazianzen, archbishop of Constantinople. As for the primus inter pares, the throne of Rome was elected as the first among equals, simply because it was the throne where the empires capital was.
pprhous 2 years ago 10
After Emperor Constantine the great MOVED the capital of the Empire to the east, to the new founded city, called New Rome, the throne of Constantinople simply gained power, because it was the throne of the empires capital. During the 4th Ec.Council, the holy fathers of the church decided to rais the throne of Constantinople from an archdiocese to a patriarchate and make it euqal to throne of ancient Rome.
pprhous 2 years ago 10
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Caesaropapist
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
Of course you have no idea what that means, and I am pretty sure that you have no clue, that it refered to the catholic church. Of course you don´t. Don´t be annoying. READ! Start with Patrologia, Philokalia, Runciman and Romanides.
pprhous 2 years ago 8
Why they raised the throne of Constantinople to equality with the throne of Rome and why Rome didn´t simply fall into 2nd place, was because of the following reasons:
Because in the chritian Church everything should be about love and respect, since the patriarchate of Rome had had the first place among EQUALS for at least 3 centuries, in the churches 400year history, it would not be very respectful to downgrade it to the second place. Since however it was no longer the seat of empires capital,
pprhous 2 years ago 8
it was no longer the first among equals, but the seat of the throne of the capitals city gained power and respect and as such, the throne of Constantinople was declared a patriarchate and at least equal to the throne of Rome. In point of theology, there is absolutely no reason in claiming any primacies my friend and has nothing to do with rangs!
pprhous 2 years ago 12
However, the true point of our discussion, should be the theological problem and not the political! The point is, that after the Franks had gained the power within the Vatican, the churches dogma started to change in what they believed was right. So, after the Franks gained the throne of Rome, they start changing the Creed, which ended in changing the decisions of the first and second Ecumenical Councils.
pprhous 2 years ago 14
They started a completely new theology, which was even against the westerns believe and by simly dfferencing from ALL the other CHURCHES, the other churches simply didn´t recognise them as "orthodox" anylonger and stopped having communion with the throne of Rome.After the other 4 patriarchates were conquered by the muslims, while the West didn´t do ANYTHING to help, all those churches lost their power and only wanted to survive.
pprhous 2 years ago 10
The shismatic throne of Rome however, was the only patriarchate of the former 5 which survived and raged to cruelty over the whole western world, by standing against science and everything that was against the believe of the Franks. They burned ppl as witches, started and decided about wars and killed many millions in the name of God, which leads us to the conclusion I told you before, that they were no better than terrorists.
pprhous 2 years ago 7
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You realize you're just repeating made up and distorted tales from Protestants right? Don't forget that Roger Bacon, a Franciscan monk, was the first to establish the scientific method. The university system was also started by the Holy Catholic Church. Also, only Rome remains in communion with Christ, the East left Him.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
I just wasted my time by explaining things to some retarted guy who can´t come up with any arguments..........
Made up? Right! Like the concentration camps never existed and never killed millions of ppl. Like Stepinak didn´t support the massakers of about 2 million Serbian and Croatic orthodox believers. Like Escriva wasn´t close to the Spanish dictator Francisco Franco, and like he was not pro-Nazi. Man, you really should start reading. And I mean read, until your eyes fall off. U need it.
pprhous 2 years ago 8
Dont you dare say that Saint Joesemaria Escrivaa was ever close to the Spanish dictator, my friend before you insult the Catholic Church the one and only true Church get your facts straight, why the Eastern Churches split from Rome, to caught up in your own pride to Deny the Papacy which only comes from Rome which CHRIST himself instituted, if your to ignorant to see that then, there's a problem with your understanding of Biblical scripture read for yourself. PAX
briu93 2 years ago
The city of God is not an earthly city it is a heavenly one! the thought that ONLY the spiritual father of Rome can lead the Church is absurd! Also the Romans and the Eastern church split from one another mutually in 1054, and the final separation occurred in the 13th century when the Crusaders sacked Byzantium and instituted a Roman bishop! It was ROME who severed the final tie to the true Church, the one built on the rock of Peters faith, the confession of Christ as the eternal Son of God.
ideasOFdestruction 2 years ago
the Orthodox church is the true church. the catholics split off from the Orthodox because the pope wanted to control things and change things that could not be changed. Orthodoxy is the original church and it follows the teaching of Christ.
ksdarfk 2 years ago
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DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
"Orthodox Church consider themselves to be members of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, a claim also held by the Assyrian Church, the Coptic Church, and what is today referred to in the Western World as the Roman Catholic Church."
tristanomm 3 years ago
Looks like a joint liturgy of east and western christians in a western church. I was a Melkite for years, and the only way you'd could tell who was what is listen for the Bishops listed in the prayers. The first Bishop mentioned was the Pope of Rome. The rest of the liturgy was the same as our Orthodox Bretheren. Even the Creed was the same as the Orthodox(without the filioque). Even the word Orthodox was used in the liturgy. I was taught in the Melkite church there were 7 councils, that was it.
stevennewnan 3 years ago
Thiis is some kind of unite church i think.
DRDNIBOY 3 years ago
Where are the icons?!!!! Statues, but no icons! :-O A New Latinization!
StealthGoblin1 3 years ago