Guitar Treble Bleed, Part 2: Installing the Capacitors, and Basic Soldering Skills

[Nick80R]

you could really tailor your sound doing this, you'd have an amazing guitar after you have finished with it :D

[themanfromwem]

very good, but in the UK we say SOLDER, not SODDER

[johnplanetz]

@themanfromwem - I have no idea why Americans say sodder. My parents are Australian so I grew up saying solder. It takes some serious effort to say "sodder" all the time, when my natural inclination is to say solder!

[themanfromwem]

@johnplanetz Excellent observation John, Happy "soddering"....HaHa, Howard.

[sngncwby]

@themanfromwem Well He aint in the UK... jesus!!!

[themanfromwem]

@sngncwby cheer up m8, life's too short. Howard (B' Jaysus)

[wseeback]

"Locking pliers or third hand" lol. Exactly.

[anesthetized8]

do i realy need orange cap? Can't i just buy cheep no-name cap? btw. thx for this film!

[johnplanetz]

@anesthetized8 - You don't need an orange drop- there are plenty of options. It's your choice. For more info, see my vids in my channel about cap material types and values.

[ronnie9253]

Hi

I've been following and learning from these excellent videos and have 'repaired' the problem caused by my choosing incorrect cap values. My final question is, can you recommend some values for resistors to fit to my log pots, to slightly alter the taper, so it's a little closer to linear? I guess I would place them in parallel BEFORE the caps?

Thanks again guru

[johnplanetz]

@ronnie9253 - Glad you got the bleed cap sorted. To tweak your taper, you could try about a 100k resistor, in parallel with the cap. When in parallel, there is no concern of before/after- the two leads of the resistor will be connected to the two leads of the cap. If you really prefer linear taper, it's probably worth just replacing the pot.

[ronnie9253]

@johnplanetz

many thanks

[Skynyrdmaster]

Great videos about capacitors ! ! I have tried the treble bleed and demud cap mods to my LP`s,, now the problem I ran into was with my tone cap, with it wired up modern or 50`s style the tone pot was rendered pretty much useless. I had .022 Luxe Bee on the bridge and was wondering with the treble bleed would I need to move up to a .047 to bring the tone pot back into full use ?

[johnplanetz]

@Skynyrdmaster - adding the volume pot bleed cap shouldn't kill your tone cap like that. are you sure it's wired properly?

[Skynyrdmaster]

@johnplanetz The only thing I can figure is I have the tone cap soldered straight to the volume pot and not to the top of the tone pot. It may be too much direct contact of the 2 caps causeing the disruption. I always wire my guitars up in the 50`s style with the caps from the tone pot directly to the vol pot lug.

[johnplanetz]

@Skynyrdmaster - only thing i can say is to check your wiring, then check it again :) you may have inadvertently shorted two leads together, or some such. Use a multimeter if you've got one, and compare against your circuit diagram (write one out if you haven't already), double-check that everything that should be connected is, and that nothing that shouldn't be connected is shorting out. There MUST be some mistake in there! Good luck.

[ozzygeo]

the difference for the sound is very important ?

[ThisGuns4Hire85]

These videos are really good. I really appreciate the attention to detail. Keep up the good work.

[cocomartinievera]

hi john, what is the best treble bleed kit for an ibanez jem with dimarzio evos in it? thanks john

[johnstangg]

Really appreciate you doing these videos.

[vic7799]

Thank you for making this video.

[destroyingVA]

John, I'd be doing this mod on my Tele plus, but I wanted a little bit of insight about whether the process would be different:

My Tele:

Regular Volume pot, a mini 3-way in between the Vol/Tone, and finally a TBX Tone Pot.

WOuld you recommend anything different for this?

[johnplanetz]

@destroyingVA - no, nothing different. the tone loss at lower volumes is happening at the volume pot (due to the load to ground). it should be very easy to try clipping in a cap with alligator leads to see if you like it.

[lordkram]

correction, i used a .002 uf. and still SWEEEEEEEET...

[lordkram]

after watching this i dug in the old electrical box, found a .001 and did just this. all i can say is SWEEEEEEEET..

[muaythai4lifelife]

Hi John i like your videos a lot!

Do you always suggest a treble bleed on every guitar?

I have to order an sg type guitar with powerful pickups.

I know pots will be 250k A.

Since I cannot try the guitar before to get it

do you think I'd have to ask for a treble bleed? Wood will be mahogany for the whole guitar.

Thanx

[johnplanetz]

@muaythai4lifelife - not necessarily. some people don't like treble bleed at all. others do. it depends on how you use your volume knob. For an SG with two humbuckers, it should work great, but it's really personal preference.

[muaythai4lifelife]

@johnplanetz so clear, thank you ;)

[DMSProduktions]

@muaythai4lifelife For an SG with humbuckers, should have minimum 500K pots not 250Ks! 250s are for single coil! 250s on humbuckers will make them TOO dull and not have full output!!! The higher Ohmage the pot the brighter and louder the output!

Thats why singles have 250s normally to tame the highs. 500K pot + treble bleed will = much happiness with a valve amp!

[muaythai4lifelife]

@DMSProduktions yes, depends on pick ups too though ;) 99% of the time is right what you've just wrote

[unmorronverde]

man, help me out. I have a jazzmaster and a telecaster, both with an Orange Drop .001 mfd in the volume for treble bleed, but when i turn down the volume, the sound waaaay to thin. What should i do? If i need a resistor: what resistor, what value of resistor and how would i solder it?

[johnplanetz]

@unmorronverde - yes you can add a resistor in series with the cap to allow a bit of bass to bleed through as well. try around a 130k ohm resistor. you could put in a 500k trim pot and experiment to find a value you like.

[Atotalfailure]

Just wanted to say how helpful your videos have been :) thanks again and keep up the awesome work :)

[kdc300z]

Thanks for all the vids and tutorials. Your soldering and wiring is very clean.

[satjathamma]

I wonder if this will help me? I have a terrible treble loss if I turn down the volume from 10 to 8 on my les paul, (neck humbucker) it sounds exactly like Im turning down the Tone knob :/

[johnplanetz]

@satjathamma - yes, a treble bleed cap may really help you with that.

[rg2027x]

Thanks for this video very helpful. Is it OK to install cap only or is resistor needed?

[johnplanetz]

@rg2027x - the resistor is only needed if you feel the cap makes the sounds too thin. the resistor lets some of the low frequencies through as well.

[rg2027x]

@johnplanetz Thank you for the information. I appreciate it : )

[jacobtheguitarfreak]

My guitar has a master tone and two volumes (one for each pickup) how many caps do I need? One because there's only one tone control?

[johnplanetz]

@jacobtheguitarfreak - one cap for tone. optionally if you want treble bleed, you'll use one cap for each volume control

[jacobtheguitarfreak]

@johnplanetz Thanks a ton man

[zabuza182]

what is treble bleed?? it just filters the treble do i need one? On my guitar I don't have one on my volume pot but its on my tone pot.

[johnplanetz]

see part 1 of this video for explanation and demo of treble bleed.

[fretboarder]

cool vids very helpful..if i use a cap that has drifted away from the specs i want is it possible for me to lose volume on my guitar ? cheers..

[johnplanetz]

@fretboarder - (sorry i missed your comment until now). i don't think you'd lose volume. for treble bleed, if the cap is too big, your vol knob won't cut the volume as much when turning down- too much signal will bleed back through. if the bleed cap is too small, it will be almost like having no cap at all. for tone cap, too big will mean your sound might be duller (even with tone on 10). too small, and you may not get as much tone-cut when turning down.

[KjellGibson]

Great vid! So, if I have a MASTERVOLUME on my two-pickup-guitar with 2 individual volumes -On which pot(s) do I operate?

[johnplanetz]

Personal preference. I tend to use master vol more than the individual vol pots, so I'd put a single treble bleed cap on the master.

The treble bleed only works on the pot you're turning, so if you always leave your master at 100% and use the individual vol pots, you should put the treble bleed on the individual pots.

Make sense?

[johnplanetz]

Also, be sure to consider the issue I described in part 3 of this video, if you have multiple vol pots tied together and listening to the mixed output, you can get weird interactions if you put treble bleed caps on the individual volumes. That would be another vote in favor of one treble bleed cap on the master volume.

Hope this helps.

[KjellGibson]

Of course man... Thanks! Just wanted to be sure on these details

[crosseyedwillie]

I just did a trebble blleed to a les paul but I put a cap and resistor between each lug. Maybe I haven't played the guitar enough yet to take notice...would this issue happen to any guitar with three pickups or just at guitar like yours wityh three volume controls?

[johnplanetz]

The resistor plus the cap will allow more low frequencies to bleed through in addition to the highs. If the resistor is in parallel, it changes the taper of the pot a bit too. Resistor in series won't change the taper.

[johnplanetz]

As for the issue you mentioned, are you referring to the problem I described in part 3 of this video series? If so, the problem occurs when you have more than one treble bleed volume pot tied together. So with a standard les paul, if you have 2 humbuckers through a 3-way switch to 2 volume pots with treble bleed caps, I expect it would exhibit the problem with the switch in the middle (both pickups tied together).

[johnplanetz]

But it's not such a big deal on that guitar, since you can isolate the pickups in the other two switch positions. Your middle switch position is a blended sound anyway, so you won't notice the issue as much (though it might be a bit duller than you'd expect if you're turning down one of the volume knobs). On my Riviera P93, there's NO way to isolate one pickup. The middle pickup is on in all three switch positions so there's always this bad interaction.

Hope this helps.

[sundogrunner1]

This is great. im gonna do it. Where do you get nice guitar wire? Ive looked everywhere.

[johnplanetz]

There's quite a few online sources: guitarelectronics sells short lengths (search there for "Single Conductor Shielded Circuit Wire")

or stewmac sells 25 foot rolls, item # 1586.

good luck!

[kdjfnvjvd]

Sorry again, but I was just told that if i have the harness modded to have a bridge tone,it would be somewhat useless to put the drop on that paticular pot. >>? Shit man i dont know haha. thanks.

[kdjfnvjvd]

okay Thanx a bunch. that sums it up a bit 4 me. Another few questions,.. if it's for a tone knob,does it matter which one I solder it to? I'm planning to use it on an S1 7-way switching strat harness with a push/pull volume pot and all 250K. The harness already came with a little brown cap on the last tone pot. It reads 2A222J. What is this cap? The first tone knob aint got any caps though. Would it work to put it on that one???? Sorry to be a pain haha.

[johnplanetz]

I think the 2 tone knobs on a strat both connect through the same cap to ground. Yours (222 or .0022uF) is uncommonly small. I guess as you turn your tone knobs down, your sound doesn't get too dark?

Your new orange drop .047uF is over 20 times the capacitance of the .0022. It'll make your tone knobs much more aggressive when turning down.

I suggest you just try it and see if you like it Orange drops are about a dollar each at mouser, so don't beat yourself up if you don't use it..

[johnplanetz]

(in case that wasn't clear, by "aggressive", i mean the tone will get darker more quickly as you turn the knob down, compared to the smaller capacitance).

[kdjfnvjvd]

okay thanks i appreciate it.

[kdjfnvjvd]

damn dude. like a pro!!

i bought some lindy fralin vintage hot pickups(single coil) for my '54 strat and the pickups came with an orange drop cap. what is this for? can it be used for the treble bleed thing? i thought you were supposed to get a special "treble bleed" cap and solder it to the volume pot?

[johnplanetz]

not sure what they're intending with the cap. what is its value (the 3 digit number printed on the cap)? if it's a small capacitance (like 102 or 1000pf), then it's for treble bleed on the volume pot, like i show in this video. If it's bigger, like 233 (.022 uf) or 473 (.047 uf), then it's intended for your tone knob. i'll soon be doing another video like this one, for tone caps.

[kdjfnvjvd]

yeah i dont really know what they intended either haha but it was a free bee. the numbers on the cap read this,...

(2)715P200V

473J 0825...... What does this mean? is it for a tone and if so which one? The web site i got it from says it's a .047 orange drop. what do you think?? thanks.

[johnplanetz]

Yep, that's a .047 microfarad cap. This is way too big to be used as a treble bleed cap. .

047uF is the typical capacitance used with a 250k ohm tone pot. Not so good with 500k ohm pots (it'll remove too many highs).

I prefer smaller capacitance values, for a narrower tone range (I don't like turning the knob down and getting super-dull sound). This is a personal preference. You could try it and see if you like the range.