@bmwbwa I KNOW!! SO UNFAIR RIGHT?! THEY SHOULD TOTALLY NERF MULES SO THAT ZERG PLAYERS CAN GET INSTA ROACHES AND LINGS WITH LARVA INJECT AND KILL TERRAN'S ECONOMY!!
Seriously, I love how the fucking terrans all cry that they are not OP, and then spout some bullshit that's COMPLETELY incorrect. How can you say your race is not imbalanced if you don't even fucking know what your own units' properties are?
If MMA was a zerg player, he'd be a low master, while if Stephano was a terran player, he'd be a top 5 GM. Really man, looking at the last 20 pro ZvT in HD's channel can you REALLY not see how OP terran is to zerg?????
@ctsincebay Yes because spamming S-DDDDDDDD requires sooooooo much skill doesn't it? Stephano has some of the worst decisions in the game yet he still won because all he needs to do is spam drones and make an army
@mavengence What the fuck are you talking about? HAHA let me tell you, FIRST OFF, you CAN'T do that, because fucking every drone you make is one less fighting unit, unlike terran and protoss that can make harvesters and units at the same time.
@ctsincebay you got larva dude. if you manage to survive the abuse that the terran might put on you in the early game then you've pretty much won the game. Especially when Mutas come into play, they allow for such easy map control with very little skill required. You can basically drone up and take expansions all over the map while the terran has to spend the entire mid to lategame just chasing away mutas. And if you see him pushing out? Bam, 200/200 army in like a second.
@ctsincebay oh and dont even get me started on Zerg micro. It's practically non-existant, Terran has to micro his ass off while also keeping up with his macro. What does Zerg need to do? Herp derp a move banelings and rofl stomp terran army.
Zerg macro only consists of larva inject btw. If you manage to get most of your injects right then you have pretty much won the game
@mavengence Stephano is the best player in the world. Also, if you actually WATCHED GSL, you would see that he didn't really deserve to win. This game should have been INFINITELY easier for the zerg to win, after a HUGELY successful early attack. I guaran-fucking-tee you that if the terran had done that to a protoss or zerg, the game would be over. That's why 4 helions fucking end the game so often. Once you lose 5-10 drones, you're pretty much DONE for.
@mavengence ALSO did you notice that it fucking took a 200/200 zerg army to beat his tiny 140 terran army? OH WAIT, ACTUALLY, he DIDN'T kill the entire army, but was lucky enough to get past them into the main. Not to mention the army was even out in the fucking middle of nowhere. Put a couple of buildings around and it might have been different. Oh yeah, and check top comment 40/14 harvesters SAME FUCKING INCOME. Means terrans can make a 250 army & same income. T gets all the love
@ctsincebay You realize Zerg armies are dirt cheap right? That Terran army might be smaller in supply but it is much more expensive. And about the mule thing, the larva mechanic is just as bad. Lose 20 drones? Bam, 20 more drones produced in the blink of eye thanks to larva. Plus, in that game, Stephano wasn't really running on sufficient bases so most of the harvesters werent exactly doing anything.
@ctsincebay Same income is because MMA had a MULE-peek (moment MULEs bring in heir minerals) and Stephano was transferring Drones to the high yielded expansion. So STFU with ur "imba" whine and learn how to play he game.
@DutchSoldier73 ACTUALLY dumb shit, it's because he has 12 mules from three orbitals. each mule is the equivalent of 2 SCV. That means that he has 14 scv PLUS 24 = the income of 38 SCV. The reason I'm saying terran is imba is because unlike your ignorant ass, i actually KNOW the details of the situation.
@ctsincebay Look on the minimap? Stephano is CLEARLY transferring Drones. If you can't see that, stop whining about a race being imba. THen, from 3 orbitals you can max. have 6 mules at a time, for about 10 seconds. Then the oldest MULE dies. No race is imbalanced, you're just shit. And no, this is not an opinion, this is a fact.
@DutchSoldier73 HAHA wtf are you talking about, he is not transferring drones at ALL at that time. he transferred like.... 3 or 4 BEFORE the attack. Also, you can have FOUR MULES per orbital, for a total of 12, and they last 90 seconds. Fuck you don't even know what you're talking about? It's like you're arguing about the stock market when you work at McDonalds. Seriously, just shoot yourself now, because idiots like you just drag society down.
@ctsincebay You can in theory have 4 MULEs per orbital, but when you want to get the best efficiency you land 1 right at 50 energy, thus having 1 MULE at a time. Now you get 50 energy in +-80 secs, so you have 2 MULEs per orbital for about 10 seconds. And in fact, most of the time the MULE will die on its last trip from patch to OC. So your point is proven wroong. Sorry. Now get a therapy assistent because I think you need anger control lessons.
@DutchSoldier73 Odd, because in this video he has 6 at the same time. Also, when it comes to command centers (thus alllowing quick replenishment of scv), they are basically free, since one mule already recovers about 275 minerals in it's life span, plus the 3 SCV it would produce in that minute and a half, which means it's... free. Keep this in mind! If a zerg loses his drones he's fucked, has to choose either drones or army. Terran? No worries, SCV and army at the same time! EZ
@ctsincebay As said, out of 3 Orbitals you'll have 6 MULEs some time. Then if you are late to call them and call them @ 55-60 energy the time you have 2 MULEs will be more. Or if you want to save them up for a new expansion, that's possible as well. And even though Zerg needs to choose between army and supply, they can make drones quicker than any race, and rebuild way quicker than normal as well.
@DutchSoldier73 Regarding the mules, let's face it, while 5-6 mules is typical during frequent use, most people including pros don't take the time to mule while in a battle because they're already busy fighting. Also, the statement that zerg can build drones faster than anyone is a fallacy, because as you can see dropping mules takes NO time, and let's SAY there are only 6 -- that's an instant 12 SCV worth of income with ZERO build time, compared to 2 base with injection of
@ctsincebay The point is that forgetting to drop MULEs, then dropping them later (and you're right, that happens a lot) is less efficient than dropping a MULE right when you can. So the optimal situation is the one I described. Of course, after a big battle there tends to be a MULE peak, where pro's dump their energy in MULEs. That gives them a high income for 90 seconds, instead of a (slightly better) average income all the time.
@DutchSoldier73 14 larvae MINUS three for overlords, not to mention the build time. Also, if they have killed all your drones, chances are they still have some army so you'll be using all your larvae to rebuild army for defense, NOT drones. Early game, they have absolutely NO advantage over protoss, who can use chrono and build probes at the SAME SPEED. Terran may be a little slower but can also make army at the same time, so they can pressure while rebuilding, unlike zerg.
@ctsincebay On 2 base a Zerg can have a macro hatch, so optimal situation would be 21 larvae minus 3-4 overlords. That's faster than Terran and Protoss can produce early game. Especially if you don't have to make an army, you can replenish 17-18 drones in 30 seconds. There is no way a T or P might do that. Ofcourse, most of the time in the middle game you need to make army, but even then you have like 5-6 drones left most of the time, which is still more than T or P can make on 2 base.
@DutchSoldier73 Actually dumb shit, it's NOT faster. Let me explain in bronze terms for you. WITH macro hatch and another queen (which is NOT early game. Until you get around the 25+ drone count point in the game, a toss will hang RIGHT beside you, and the terran will fall slightly behind by 5-6 SCV (but with mules, is same income!) When you get that macro, it's already past the 6 minute mark, so you need to start making army. You're not making many drones at that point.
@DutchSoldier73 Still, let's say everyone is a bronze and they're playing no rush 10 minutes. (I don't but you might!) In THIS case, I could see droning on three hatches being faster, but not really by much because if that's the case, ABSOLUTELY the terran would have a third orbital, and just to put it into perspective, they can make their army along side of SCV, unlike zerg needs to make one or the other, not to mention every time a building is made, a drone is lost!
@DutchSoldier73 You really have a very poor understanding of the game. If you're terran, which I suspect you are, you are used to just building up a huge army on 1 or 2 base and then pushing and winning. There's really little to no game sense required for any terran below mid platinum. Only around mid platinum do you need to start understanding how shit works. That's why I say -- if you want to know a terrans game level -- take their league and subtract one, and you've got it.
@ctsincebay I'm not sure that top level Zerg players are so different. I've watched lots of 1v1s and it seems that spare let's say Leenock of late, most Zergs prefer waiting just as much as Terrans/Protosses.
@bumshka21 The point is that a two base terran can build and fund an army better than a two or three base zerg. Plus, with just a few drops, and an investment of only 8 marines each time, they can keep sniping zerg buildings. Trading 8 marines to snipe a spawning pool is totally worth it, and keeps the zerg production way down. Once the terran has about 3 tanks and a bevy of marines, with a couple of marauders mixed in to slow the banes, they can camp outside and slow push to a win.
@ctsincebay 'Just 8 'rines and a Drop'; sir, that's 500/100 on resources. And have you seen marines against a pool? It doesn't go down quickly in any sense of the word. It takes about 15-20 seconds if they are stimmed. Just doing the maths backs my point.
I don't disagree that Terrans are more suited to turtling than Zerg, but that's the style of the race. Which are more versatile: Mutas or Viking/Banshee? I think the difference in strength comes down to Zerg is more difficult to micro.
@bumshka21 That's 500/100 invested to snipe a building. It takes 7 seconds per 500 damage to armored structures. A pool takes just 14 seconds to snipe, a hatch takes just 21 seconds to snipe. In reality that is VERY little time. Many times they can just snipe a building, pick up, and leave. Even if they did sack the marines at a cost of 400, it's totally worth it because especially with medivac support, they'll almost always inflict at LEAST double that cost in damage. Usually more...
@ctsincebay It is worth it as you've said in pure resource trading. But you're assuming that the MVac isn't spotted by a OvLord, that the T only targets the pool (and not say, drones) or the entirety isn't countered by Spine/Queen/Offensive Units.
As for Time, for Pros that length is HUGE. Maybe our viewings differ considerably, but of the 100+ ZvTs I've seen, at MOST 20%/5% drops go unseen/kill the pool off, respectively.
However, I'd argue mutas/BlingsDrops are > the above, a la 2010 TLO
@bumshka21 That's all fine and dandy but face it, you can have a dual medivac drop enroute long before mutalisks pop. Even IF the zerg didn't do shit but rush tech to mutas, and the terran was slow, they'd have to catch the medivacs mid flight, but the problem is there'd only be 2-4 mutas, which 8 marines can easily polish off. Also, with the medivac backing them up, 8 marines can fairly easily pop off a spine and a couple of queens.
@ctsincebay I mean, this conversation becomes a little pointless when you just double your side of the inequality, so to speak. Producing 2Mvacs+16Rines is that much more of an investment, esp. when factoring the likelihood that for your timing that's ALL the T's forces. And I'm fairly sure I've witnessed even fewer games where that's been the case.
Meanwhile, with exception to Leenock's BLings micro @ MLG-RI, I haven't seen any Z micro like TLO used to of individually Ling/Mutas. Have you?
@bumshka21 Of course zerg want to wait as LONG as possible because they need an infinite supply of units to break down a terran or protoss army. Seriously it takes at least 2 200/200 roach/infestor/corruptor armies to deal with a single protoss ball, for example. The worst part however, is that if they are past half map when they kill your army, your chance of getting enough roaches out at the front of the base to finish the job is ALMOST impossible.
@ctsincebay If that's the case, how did Leenock just win MLG Providence? He beat essentially every single top protoss and terran in the world at that tournament. By demonstrating that if you choose not to 'drone hard' you can tactically manage a win.
@DutchSoldier73 SO DUMBASS, 38 SCV worth of income is roughly the same as 40 drones of income. Fucking retard, you don't even KNOW what you're talking about. Oh and keep this in mind fucktard; mules don't use food so that's 16 supply that can be used for army. You fucking terrans just enjoy having an OP race and come up with the most pitiful of defense based on NOTHING more than your unsubstantiated OPINIONs.
Why the FUCK did he not attack straight after breaking those goddamn rocks? I like this guy but seriously what the fuck - you take a terran totally by surprise and then just sit there and let him organise a defence. Massive mistake right there. ALSO yeah mules kinda do need a nerf.
If Terran or Protoss kill 60+ of Zergs drones, there is a 0% chance the Zerg can pull off any kind of comeback.... yet here Terran makes it look almost easy, and dragged this game out way longer than it should have been.... Once again NERF MULES. You should get smaller returns from mules when you have LESS SCVs.
@WrecklessRecluse Limit simultaneous mules, that's the solution. Without mules early game chronoboosted probes and mass drones will put T at a big disadvantage economically. The problem with mules is when you get all your workers killed mid-late game and you can spam tons of them at once. So maybe 2 at a time or something like that.
Alternatively, give a mule drop a range, so each Orbital can only drop them at the minerals they are mining.
@Plethora222 Why compare mules to drones? If Z makes mass drones they have no larva for units, then u die. Mules and Chrono boost give P and T advantages, massing drones does not give Z advantage, its sacrificing larva that could be made for units.
I think MMA's initial barracks placement was an attempt at baiting a rush out of Stephano. At the very least, he got Stephano to delay his hatch, and overproduce early lings.
7:10 MMA has15 SCVs while Stephano has 40 drones but Stephano is only collecting 500 more minerals than MMA because of the MULE. Balanced? I think not.
Theres a difference between a turtle terren, and a turtle terren who double expanded. If you "never" attack a terren nomatter how boldly he expands, you are making just as big of a mistake as in attacking him
@jotathenoble HD said "only god knows.. blah blah blah" and it prompted me to say that... also i was unaware that my right to freedom of speech had been taking away when viewing sc2 videos... -.-
@JuanchoMan well thats ur opinion, but all your doing is making aithiest people seem douchier, because 1st of all it doesnt help that a large majority of you quote the bible just to annoy people, and it makes it worse just to tell people that God doesnt exist. btw u spelled life wrong. but just to let you know the bible proves that he does. there has been proof that things in the bible did in fact take place and it is incredibly historically accurate. so u can think incorrectly if u want to.
Is everyone dumb here? MMA doesnt lose 60 Harvester on the on hand, also he hasn't Higher Income...cry more! Blizzard has Grandmaster-Players balancing the game, they will know it better, I guess?
L O f*ckin L, early roaches bust in and totally smash the terran in the face, but then immediately afterwards he has more mineral income than the zerg because of the mules he forgot to drop during the attack. you know what happens when a zerg forgets to inject? it isnt pretty... that seems pretty BS to me
Our big french hope...he is young and he still makes some macro mistakes but his 83% win on ladder and his latest performances on tournaments are pretty awesome.He is on a straight line, compared to few months ago.
damn hell... now THAT is a zerg swarm! MMA must've broke a sweat when he saw all those ling/bling detected by the sensor tower. lol. anyways HD, great series!
the very first racks in that "unusual" spot wasnt "proxy-racks". i think he makes the chokepoint smaller which leads to his natural. but as the game continues he understood it wasnt that good move ^^.
I think it is a stupid idea to try outmacro zerg. They just have it too easy to catch up with any kind of income advantage terran might have... It is just stupid to try to get fast 3rd against zerg... they will just get fast 5th and go kill you with attack+move.
@szopad clearly ur not using tank marine properly if ur losing to a move u dont need to get a fast third to outmacro zerg shit mules outmacro zerg by themselves
@szopad not if u harass in nyway drops dont even need to be researched and hellions are cheap as hell u can outmacro zerg if u harass the only harass zerg has is mutas easily countered by 2 thors
@Wickedsicked8 Drops are negated by mutas if there's control. Zerg late game macro is unmatched by any race, that is why they're so difficult to deal with late game.
@szopad HOW lol overlords need 2 upgrades as well as dont heal the weaker zerglings inside baneling drops maybe but even then u should throw up a few missile turrets for mutas way b4 ovie drops available
@Wickedsicked8 It's easier to drop as a zerg because overlords are cheap, you have a lot of them and terran's army is slow. It's much easier to deny terran's dropships. You can just creep over your base or put 1 spine crawler behind your mineral line. Zerglings and mutas counter dropships pretty hard. And it is not worth it to lose 500m 100g on a drop that has 10% chance of succes. Especially is zerg has infestors.
@szopad ur stupid because with zerg u have upgrade oerloord speed and ventral sacs whitch is 300min and 300gas and takes a while to upgrade.also terran needs harrassment too stay in the game with a good zerg.zerg also has too cover more bases and constantly run around defending drops and constantly reproducing queens,drones, and fixing gyser counts
@szopad 1 spine crawler doesnt deny drops overlords cost supply and larvae dropships have more than 10% chance of success infestors arent fast and mutaling is a weak combo missile turrets alone wreck overlords
This guys are insane, I can't believe it. Very nice series! I haven't seen this type of play since... back when Savior was at the top on Broodwar xD
BBZZZZZ 4 days ago
@bmwbwa I KNOW!! SO UNFAIR RIGHT?! THEY SHOULD TOTALLY NERF MULES SO THAT ZERG PLAYERS CAN GET INSTA ROACHES AND LINGS WITH LARVA INJECT AND KILL TERRAN'S ECONOMY!!
FistDaMonkey 5 days ago
no fund no reserves nothing?? TERRAN GOT MULE!
bmwbwa 1 week ago
You need to know more about sc2
bmwbwa 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
MMA sucks. He just abuse things which make terran OP .
fenixssanai2 2 weeks ago
"and MMA with an incredible hold!" ... for terrans, I guess dropping 2 supply depots = an incredible hold.
ctsincebay 3 weeks ago
I wonder if anyone else noticed that if ONE tank had come out instead of that helion, that attack would have been COMPLETELY deflected. ONE tank...
ctsincebay 3 weeks ago
Not many Zerg players can beat MMA. He has an obscene 80% win rate against Zerg. Well PLayed.
joncito77 4 weeks ago 2
Seriously, I love how the fucking terrans all cry that they are not OP, and then spout some bullshit that's COMPLETELY incorrect. How can you say your race is not imbalanced if you don't even fucking know what your own units' properties are?
ctsincebay 1 month ago
When I hear terran player saying that mutas are OP I know that I've just encountered an idiot.
Kozaack 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
poor ners can always watch free GSL at quidhi dot info
RyantBoettcher402 1 month ago
If MMA was a zerg player, he'd be a low master, while if Stephano was a terran player, he'd be a top 5 GM. Really man, looking at the last 20 pro ZvT in HD's channel can you REALLY not see how OP terran is to zerg?????
ctsincebay 2 months ago
@ctsincebay So you think that terran is OP now?? Wait for shredders in HotS!
Kozaack 1 month ago
@ctsincebay Yes because spamming S-DDDDDDDD requires sooooooo much skill doesn't it? Stephano has some of the worst decisions in the game yet he still won because all he needs to do is spam drones and make an army
mavengence 1 month ago
@mavengence What the fuck are you talking about? HAHA let me tell you, FIRST OFF, you CAN'T do that, because fucking every drone you make is one less fighting unit, unlike terran and protoss that can make harvesters and units at the same time.
ctsincebay 1 month ago
@ctsincebay you got larva dude. if you manage to survive the abuse that the terran might put on you in the early game then you've pretty much won the game. Especially when Mutas come into play, they allow for such easy map control with very little skill required. You can basically drone up and take expansions all over the map while the terran has to spend the entire mid to lategame just chasing away mutas. And if you see him pushing out? Bam, 200/200 army in like a second.
mavengence 1 month ago
@ctsincebay oh and dont even get me started on Zerg micro. It's practically non-existant, Terran has to micro his ass off while also keeping up with his macro. What does Zerg need to do? Herp derp a move banelings and rofl stomp terran army.
Zerg macro only consists of larva inject btw. If you manage to get most of your injects right then you have pretty much won the game
mavengence 1 month ago
@ctsincebay Also, MMA is a fucking GSL champion. Who the hell is Stephano?
mavengence 1 month ago
@mavengence Stephano is the best player in the world. Also, if you actually WATCHED GSL, you would see that he didn't really deserve to win. This game should have been INFINITELY easier for the zerg to win, after a HUGELY successful early attack. I guaran-fucking-tee you that if the terran had done that to a protoss or zerg, the game would be over. That's why 4 helions fucking end the game so often. Once you lose 5-10 drones, you're pretty much DONE for.
ctsincebay 1 month ago
@ctsincebay You're joking right? Stephano isn't even the best Zerg in the world. That crown belongs to either Nestea or Dongraegu.
mavengence 1 month ago
@mavengence ALSO did you notice that it fucking took a 200/200 zerg army to beat his tiny 140 terran army? OH WAIT, ACTUALLY, he DIDN'T kill the entire army, but was lucky enough to get past them into the main. Not to mention the army was even out in the fucking middle of nowhere. Put a couple of buildings around and it might have been different. Oh yeah, and check top comment 40/14 harvesters SAME FUCKING INCOME. Means terrans can make a 250 army & same income. T gets all the love
ctsincebay 1 month ago
@ctsincebay You realize Zerg armies are dirt cheap right? That Terran army might be smaller in supply but it is much more expensive. And about the mule thing, the larva mechanic is just as bad. Lose 20 drones? Bam, 20 more drones produced in the blink of eye thanks to larva. Plus, in that game, Stephano wasn't really running on sufficient bases so most of the harvesters werent exactly doing anything.
mavengence 1 month ago
@ctsincebay Same income is because MMA had a MULE-peek (moment MULEs bring in heir minerals) and Stephano was transferring Drones to the high yielded expansion. So STFU with ur "imba" whine and learn how to play he game.
DutchSoldier73 1 month ago
@DutchSoldier73 ACTUALLY dumb shit, it's because he has 12 mules from three orbitals. each mule is the equivalent of 2 SCV. That means that he has 14 scv PLUS 24 = the income of 38 SCV. The reason I'm saying terran is imba is because unlike your ignorant ass, i actually KNOW the details of the situation.
ctsincebay 1 month ago
@ctsincebay Look on the minimap? Stephano is CLEARLY transferring Drones. If you can't see that, stop whining about a race being imba. THen, from 3 orbitals you can max. have 6 mules at a time, for about 10 seconds. Then the oldest MULE dies. No race is imbalanced, you're just shit. And no, this is not an opinion, this is a fact.
DutchSoldier73 1 month ago
@DutchSoldier73 HAHA wtf are you talking about, he is not transferring drones at ALL at that time. he transferred like.... 3 or 4 BEFORE the attack. Also, you can have FOUR MULES per orbital, for a total of 12, and they last 90 seconds. Fuck you don't even know what you're talking about? It's like you're arguing about the stock market when you work at McDonalds. Seriously, just shoot yourself now, because idiots like you just drag society down.
ctsincebay 1 month ago
@ctsincebay You can in theory have 4 MULEs per orbital, but when you want to get the best efficiency you land 1 right at 50 energy, thus having 1 MULE at a time. Now you get 50 energy in +-80 secs, so you have 2 MULEs per orbital for about 10 seconds. And in fact, most of the time the MULE will die on its last trip from patch to OC. So your point is proven wroong. Sorry. Now get a therapy assistent because I think you need anger control lessons.
DutchSoldier73 1 month ago
@DutchSoldier73 Odd, because in this video he has 6 at the same time. Also, when it comes to command centers (thus alllowing quick replenishment of scv), they are basically free, since one mule already recovers about 275 minerals in it's life span, plus the 3 SCV it would produce in that minute and a half, which means it's... free. Keep this in mind! If a zerg loses his drones he's fucked, has to choose either drones or army. Terran? No worries, SCV and army at the same time! EZ
ctsincebay 1 month ago
@ctsincebay As said, out of 3 Orbitals you'll have 6 MULEs some time. Then if you are late to call them and call them @ 55-60 energy the time you have 2 MULEs will be more. Or if you want to save them up for a new expansion, that's possible as well. And even though Zerg needs to choose between army and supply, they can make drones quicker than any race, and rebuild way quicker than normal as well.
DutchSoldier73 1 month ago
@DutchSoldier73 Regarding the mules, let's face it, while 5-6 mules is typical during frequent use, most people including pros don't take the time to mule while in a battle because they're already busy fighting. Also, the statement that zerg can build drones faster than anyone is a fallacy, because as you can see dropping mules takes NO time, and let's SAY there are only 6 -- that's an instant 12 SCV worth of income with ZERO build time, compared to 2 base with injection of
ctsincebay 1 month ago
@ctsincebay The point is that forgetting to drop MULEs, then dropping them later (and you're right, that happens a lot) is less efficient than dropping a MULE right when you can. So the optimal situation is the one I described. Of course, after a big battle there tends to be a MULE peak, where pro's dump their energy in MULEs. That gives them a high income for 90 seconds, instead of a (slightly better) average income all the time.
DutchSoldier73 1 month ago
@DutchSoldier73 14 larvae MINUS three for overlords, not to mention the build time. Also, if they have killed all your drones, chances are they still have some army so you'll be using all your larvae to rebuild army for defense, NOT drones. Early game, they have absolutely NO advantage over protoss, who can use chrono and build probes at the SAME SPEED. Terran may be a little slower but can also make army at the same time, so they can pressure while rebuilding, unlike zerg.
ctsincebay 1 month ago
@ctsincebay On 2 base a Zerg can have a macro hatch, so optimal situation would be 21 larvae minus 3-4 overlords. That's faster than Terran and Protoss can produce early game. Especially if you don't have to make an army, you can replenish 17-18 drones in 30 seconds. There is no way a T or P might do that. Ofcourse, most of the time in the middle game you need to make army, but even then you have like 5-6 drones left most of the time, which is still more than T or P can make on 2 base.
DutchSoldier73 1 month ago
@DutchSoldier73 Actually dumb shit, it's NOT faster. Let me explain in bronze terms for you. WITH macro hatch and another queen (which is NOT early game. Until you get around the 25+ drone count point in the game, a toss will hang RIGHT beside you, and the terran will fall slightly behind by 5-6 SCV (but with mules, is same income!) When you get that macro, it's already past the 6 minute mark, so you need to start making army. You're not making many drones at that point.
ctsincebay 1 month ago
@DutchSoldier73 Still, let's say everyone is a bronze and they're playing no rush 10 minutes. (I don't but you might!) In THIS case, I could see droning on three hatches being faster, but not really by much because if that's the case, ABSOLUTELY the terran would have a third orbital, and just to put it into perspective, they can make their army along side of SCV, unlike zerg needs to make one or the other, not to mention every time a building is made, a drone is lost!
ctsincebay 1 month ago
@DutchSoldier73 You really have a very poor understanding of the game. If you're terran, which I suspect you are, you are used to just building up a huge army on 1 or 2 base and then pushing and winning. There's really little to no game sense required for any terran below mid platinum. Only around mid platinum do you need to start understanding how shit works. That's why I say -- if you want to know a terrans game level -- take their league and subtract one, and you've got it.
ctsincebay 1 month ago
@ctsincebay I'm not sure that top level Zerg players are so different. I've watched lots of 1v1s and it seems that spare let's say Leenock of late, most Zergs prefer waiting just as much as Terrans/Protosses.
bumshka21 3 weeks ago
@bumshka21 The point is that a two base terran can build and fund an army better than a two or three base zerg. Plus, with just a few drops, and an investment of only 8 marines each time, they can keep sniping zerg buildings. Trading 8 marines to snipe a spawning pool is totally worth it, and keeps the zerg production way down. Once the terran has about 3 tanks and a bevy of marines, with a couple of marauders mixed in to slow the banes, they can camp outside and slow push to a win.
ctsincebay 3 weeks ago
@ctsincebay 'Just 8 'rines and a Drop'; sir, that's 500/100 on resources. And have you seen marines against a pool? It doesn't go down quickly in any sense of the word. It takes about 15-20 seconds if they are stimmed. Just doing the maths backs my point.
I don't disagree that Terrans are more suited to turtling than Zerg, but that's the style of the race. Which are more versatile: Mutas or Viking/Banshee? I think the difference in strength comes down to Zerg is more difficult to micro.
bumshka21 3 weeks ago
@bumshka21 That's 500/100 invested to snipe a building. It takes 7 seconds per 500 damage to armored structures. A pool takes just 14 seconds to snipe, a hatch takes just 21 seconds to snipe. In reality that is VERY little time. Many times they can just snipe a building, pick up, and leave. Even if they did sack the marines at a cost of 400, it's totally worth it because especially with medivac support, they'll almost always inflict at LEAST double that cost in damage. Usually more...
ctsincebay 3 weeks ago
@ctsincebay It is worth it as you've said in pure resource trading. But you're assuming that the MVac isn't spotted by a OvLord, that the T only targets the pool (and not say, drones) or the entirety isn't countered by Spine/Queen/Offensive Units.
As for Time, for Pros that length is HUGE. Maybe our viewings differ considerably, but of the 100+ ZvTs I've seen, at MOST 20%/5% drops go unseen/kill the pool off, respectively.
However, I'd argue mutas/BlingsDrops are > the above, a la 2010 TLO
bumshka21 3 weeks ago
@bumshka21 That's all fine and dandy but face it, you can have a dual medivac drop enroute long before mutalisks pop. Even IF the zerg didn't do shit but rush tech to mutas, and the terran was slow, they'd have to catch the medivacs mid flight, but the problem is there'd only be 2-4 mutas, which 8 marines can easily polish off. Also, with the medivac backing them up, 8 marines can fairly easily pop off a spine and a couple of queens.
ctsincebay 3 weeks ago
@ctsincebay I mean, this conversation becomes a little pointless when you just double your side of the inequality, so to speak. Producing 2Mvacs+16Rines is that much more of an investment, esp. when factoring the likelihood that for your timing that's ALL the T's forces. And I'm fairly sure I've witnessed even fewer games where that's been the case.
Meanwhile, with exception to Leenock's BLings micro @ MLG-RI, I haven't seen any Z micro like TLO used to of individually Ling/Mutas. Have you?
bumshka21 3 weeks ago
@bumshka21 Of course zerg want to wait as LONG as possible because they need an infinite supply of units to break down a terran or protoss army. Seriously it takes at least 2 200/200 roach/infestor/corruptor armies to deal with a single protoss ball, for example. The worst part however, is that if they are past half map when they kill your army, your chance of getting enough roaches out at the front of the base to finish the job is ALMOST impossible.
ctsincebay 3 weeks ago
@ctsincebay If that's the case, how did Leenock just win MLG Providence? He beat essentially every single top protoss and terran in the world at that tournament. By demonstrating that if you choose not to 'drone hard' you can tactically manage a win.
bumshka21 3 weeks ago
@DutchSoldier73 SO DUMBASS, 38 SCV worth of income is roughly the same as 40 drones of income. Fucking retard, you don't even KNOW what you're talking about. Oh and keep this in mind fucktard; mules don't use food so that's 16 supply that can be used for army. You fucking terrans just enjoy having an OP race and come up with the most pitiful of defense based on NOTHING more than your unsubstantiated OPINIONs.
ctsincebay 1 month ago
holy zerglingssss
Shadowboost 3 months ago
This caster is awesome, who is it?
Erc888 3 months ago
1:20 , hdstarcraft got strangled
shootingmen 3 months ago
stephano is one scary dude... better than idra
droga187 4 months ago
"trying to elongate tht stick" xD
dukeaddict237 4 months ago
5:58 Any time you see one roach, there are at least a dozen others hiding in the walls.
Malkalypse7 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
losing 30+ worker in the early? no prob sir. we have mules. lost 90% of your army? no prob sir. we have 1-2 tanks.
i hope Hots will stop that turteling a bit.
btw. realy good and smart games.
MDKrausser 4 months ago 2
i'd like to play like stephano omg mass baaaaaneellliiiiiiiiiiiing!!!
szilike08 4 months ago
Man this guys are mad :D
Tomaszus1000 4 months ago
Crazy good series.
doe791 4 months ago
Why the FUCK did he not attack straight after breaking those goddamn rocks? I like this guy but seriously what the fuck - you take a terran totally by surprise and then just sit there and let him organise a defence. Massive mistake right there. ALSO yeah mules kinda do need a nerf.
paralinguistico 4 months ago
If Terran or Protoss kill 60+ of Zergs drones, there is a 0% chance the Zerg can pull off any kind of comeback.... yet here Terran makes it look almost easy, and dragged this game out way longer than it should have been.... Once again NERF MULES. You should get smaller returns from mules when you have LESS SCVs.
WrecklessRecluse 4 months ago in playlist More videos from HDstarcraft 2
@WrecklessRecluse Limit simultaneous mules, that's the solution. Without mules early game chronoboosted probes and mass drones will put T at a big disadvantage economically. The problem with mules is when you get all your workers killed mid-late game and you can spam tons of them at once. So maybe 2 at a time or something like that.
Alternatively, give a mule drop a range, so each Orbital can only drop them at the minerals they are mining.
Plethora222 4 months ago
@Plethora222 Why compare mules to drones? If Z makes mass drones they have no larva for units, then u die. Mules and Chrono boost give P and T advantages, massing drones does not give Z advantage, its sacrificing larva that could be made for units.
rtc7788 3 months ago
nerf mules.
WrecklessRecluse 4 months ago in playlist More videos from HDstarcraft
I think MMA's initial barracks placement was an attempt at baiting a rush out of Stephano. At the very least, he got Stephano to delay his hatch, and overproduce early lings.
Zeuts85 4 months ago
He didn't elongate that stick.
utdwcd 4 months ago
Tarade?
TheAdmiralPancake 4 months ago
7:10 MMA has15 SCVs while Stephano has 40 drones but Stephano is only collecting 500 more minerals than MMA because of the MULE. Balanced? I think not.
pughsy2 4 months ago
Do you want to be a major youtube director?
Join us on our quest to reach the TOP of youtube.
To be a director, fill out the application questions located at the bottom left of our channel.
We are open to play ANY game. Message us if you have any questions.
- 421orDI3
421orDI3 4 months ago
Stephano has horrible in game decision making. Blows my mind... :-/
bbowers825 4 months ago
@bbowers825 i mean he had like 1 mess up where he could have attacked from the side. but that was really it. he beat a really good korean.
TheBennyisCool 4 months ago
@TheBennyisCool Mistake: 7:20 - He massed units to try to end the game against a turtle terran who was already pumping Mauraders.
Mistake: 9:04 - Again making units to try an attack when he should be focused on econ.
Mistake: 9:57 - Having decided to make an attack, he sat for a good 20 seconds, doing nothing.
Mistake: 11:15 - Continued attack on a turtle terran, against MULTIPLE TANKS.
The only reason he won this game was because of the early damage he did. He almost threw it away.
bbowers825 4 months ago
@bbowers825
Theres a difference between a turtle terren, and a turtle terren who double expanded. If you "never" attack a terren nomatter how boldly he expands, you are making just as big of a mistake as in attacking him
Qyburnator 4 months ago
roflstomp, amazing stuff stephano
mo2danny 4 months ago
Hey HD can u cast some matches from the new slayers member eve she is HOOOOT and also plays good ;-)
zer0l0w 4 months ago in playlist temp1
sick :D
SuNyOms 4 months ago
god doesnt exist there is only Iire
JuanchoMan 4 months ago
@JuanchoMan So... you basicly come here to say this?
1st of all, yes, it does exist, if you don't wanna belive, then don't need to
2nd, why did you came HERE to say that?
jotathenoble 4 months ago
@jotathenoble HD said "only god knows.. blah blah blah" and it prompted me to say that... also i was unaware that my right to freedom of speech had been taking away when viewing sc2 videos... -.-
JuanchoMan 4 months ago
@JuanchoMan well thats ur opinion, but all your doing is making aithiest people seem douchier, because 1st of all it doesnt help that a large majority of you quote the bible just to annoy people, and it makes it worse just to tell people that God doesnt exist. btw u spelled life wrong. but just to let you know the bible proves that he does. there has been proof that things in the bible did in fact take place and it is incredibly historically accurate. so u can think incorrectly if u want to.
TheBennyisCool 4 months ago
@TheBennyisCool how exactly does the bible "prove" gods existence? also its not life its "ire" as in "My life for Ire!". I misspelled it, I am sorry.
JuanchoMan 4 months ago
@JuanchoMan no its actually "My life for Aiur" lol referring to protoss's home planet
imakecolloshuehue 4 months ago
@imakecolloshuehue oh shit i misspelled it again then xD thanks
JuanchoMan 4 months ago
Zerg too strong
sanddune1981 4 months ago
@sanddune1981 no its perfectly balanced MMA just didnt have a big enough army.
TheBennyisCool 4 months ago
whats the deal with all of the supply depots at the bottom of the ramps?
theDragonaut 4 months ago
@theDragonaut it prevents from opponents walling you in. (like toss pylons)
MrJlumanji 4 months ago
Is everyone dumb here? MMA doesnt lose 60 Harvester on the on hand, also he hasn't Higher Income...cry more! Blizzard has Grandmaster-Players balancing the game, they will know it better, I guess?
Skidd75 4 months ago
Beating MMA: Stephano his stock just went through the roof!!
Earopener1 4 months ago
no fucking wonder MMA can keep coming back after losing 62 workers......hes a Terran.
iParkCore 4 months ago
lol... Elongate the stick.
windsorbassist 4 months ago
GG stephano t'es un boss !
TheWhiteFaction 4 months ago 23
so classic, great series!
creativeinsult 4 months ago
thats right! well played zerg!!!!
bulldawgs2015 4 months ago
the overlord saw the barracks, huh, weird, looks like a command center :P go get some sleep HD
Zilerrezko 4 months ago in playlist Videos from HDstarcraft
Terran: 14 workers
Zerg : 40 harvester
Terran has higher income. what bull.
Ataro104 4 months ago 14
@Ataro104 mules = OP obviously
shootingmen 3 months ago
@Ataro104 welcome to the world of triple orbital command.
NitishChauhan1 2 months ago
L O f*ckin L, early roaches bust in and totally smash the terran in the face, but then immediately afterwards he has more mineral income than the zerg because of the mules he forgot to drop during the attack. you know what happens when a zerg forgets to inject? it isnt pretty... that seems pretty BS to me
B3b0p1n 4 months ago
even though MMA is terran he can be annoying with those mutas... lol
1224Theend 4 months ago
15:45 one of the biggest 1As I´ve ever seen in pro-gaming.
liraflavio 5 months ago
Comment removed
liraflavio 5 months ago
15:45 the biggest 1A I´ve ever seen on pro-gaming!
liraflavio 5 months ago
Blunt not brunt
mat2hwong 5 months ago
Yeah those stockholders and Investors won't be pleased
Hewkll 5 months ago
the amount of eminem on the field lol 14:03
coledamole1000 5 months ago
stephano so good god dammit
but he would get raped by MKP
marine rape
Utubesuxmycock 5 months ago
You want to see an awesome Zerg battle? Stephano vs DRG will be my bet.. :D
nicegoodspeed1 5 months ago
Our big french hope...he is young and he still makes some macro mistakes but his 83% win on ladder and his latest performances on tournaments are pretty awesome.He is on a straight line, compared to few months ago.
A bit more time and he will be ready for korea :)
H0kram 5 months ago 3
Stephano vs. Idra
xiaoina 5 months ago in playlist sc
@xiaoina Idra is overrated ...
AlduinWorldEater 5 months ago
I think mma did fake the cheese, to delay the 15 hatch of stephano otherwise he would ´ve build his rax more hidden...
3p7ic 5 months ago
i'm noob in this game, can you tell me which one is the Terrant?
uruguayitorip 5 months ago
@uruguayitorip MMA and its Terran without the t
3p7ic 5 months ago
@3p7ic tnks :)
uruguayitorip 5 months ago
11:43 : "He's gonna try to elongate that stick"
titter titter
Oren6131 5 months ago 2
srsly HD u misread tanks vs roach/ling :P
also stephano never builds banelings????
fanathym 5 months ago
I didnt expect stephano to overcommit as he is a pro gamer ~
fanathym 5 months ago
"MMA is beeing annoying with his Mutalisks"
Amomentforever 5 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What a terrible game. Stephano sucks
DMWestWoodElite 5 months ago
i never see the best unit used anymore the hydralisk???? why there brutal
higuyimfried 5 months ago
begin f the game i abnged my head ont he table so opften. mma doing standard 1 rax expand and hd just won stop talking about "proxy" o.O
TheMrAmfortas 5 months ago
damn hell... now THAT is a zerg swarm! MMA must've broke a sweat when he saw all those ling/bling detected by the sensor tower. lol. anyways HD, great series!
LeSage013 5 months ago
question: how many players would have gged or ragequit being in a situation like 7:03?
sad answer: everybody...
MMA and stephano bring sc2 playing ona a new lvl!
cccpredarmy 5 months ago
the very first racks in that "unusual" spot wasnt "proxy-racks". i think he makes the chokepoint smaller which leads to his natural. but as the game continues he understood it wasnt that good move ^^.
cccpredarmy 5 months ago
Man, HD really beat the shit out of that Great Depression joke xD
UrTalkingToKory 5 months ago
I like HD because he sounds like he's always excited :DDD and it makes me even more excited :DDDDDDD
UnholyDMC 5 months ago
HD, remember not to trust the worker count- all them OP Mules.
MASTURCHEEF001 5 months ago in playlist More videos from HDstarcraft
That rush Stephano did at the end was nothing short of beautiful O:
aoenjeru 5 months ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
'does he have a baneling nest?'
(prod. tab shows centrifugal hooks 99%done, banes on main screen)
(facepalm)
SyzygyTT 5 months ago 24
@SyzygyTT I would like to mention he also said there were 8 banelings being produced. IDK HD is there a baneling nest?
Lonexwolfy 4 months ago in playlist More videos from HDstarcraft
@SyzygyTT I know right? too funny. he saw them morphing in and commented on it too :P
Lazris59 4 months ago
@SyzygyTT He meant centrifugal hook for sure. But still...
j0rdan145 4 months ago
@SyzygyTT i guess he wanted to say: where is his banling nest :D
Suzisuicide 4 months ago
i read the top comments and i just cant wait to see what happens lol
TEHviewerFTW 5 months ago
stop calling every attack an all in.
ygvrf 5 months ago
11:44 he's gonna try and elongate that stick
okay HD okay.
benkabore 5 months ago 3
Comment removed
benkabore 5 months ago
MMA was nowhere near his usually skill level these games
danman2125 5 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
yea HD it took us 20 years to get out of the great depression... fucking retard doesnt know anything about history or sc2
MrRakah 5 months ago
hd prob faceplam so much when he watches this again
SuperNailclippers 5 months ago
mma played awful i feel hes so overrated i would almost say his mlg victory wasnt deserved since idra still couldve won that game
Wickedsicked8 5 months ago
@Wickedsicked8 You're an idiot.
XDXDXDXDXDXDXD 5 months ago
Comment removed
joe13277 5 months ago
I think it is a stupid idea to try outmacro zerg. They just have it too easy to catch up with any kind of income advantage terran might have... It is just stupid to try to get fast 3rd against zerg... they will just get fast 5th and go kill you with attack+move.
szopad 5 months ago
@szopad clearly ur not using tank marine properly if ur losing to a move u dont need to get a fast third to outmacro zerg shit mules outmacro zerg by themselves
Wickedsicked8 5 months ago
@Wickedsicked8 actually no, zerg has better macro even if terran uses mules
szopad 5 months ago
@szopad not if u harass in nyway drops dont even need to be researched and hellions are cheap as hell u can outmacro zerg if u harass the only harass zerg has is mutas easily countered by 2 thors
Wickedsicked8 5 months ago
@Wickedsicked8 Drops are negated by mutas if there's control. Zerg late game macro is unmatched by any race, that is why they're so difficult to deal with late game.
iLLyNada 5 months ago
@Wickedsicked8 actually, terran's dropships are much easier to counter than zerg's overlord drops with zerglings ;]
szopad 5 months ago
@szopad HOW lol overlords need 2 upgrades as well as dont heal the weaker zerglings inside baneling drops maybe but even then u should throw up a few missile turrets for mutas way b4 ovie drops available
Wickedsicked8 5 months ago
@Wickedsicked8 It's easier to drop as a zerg because overlords are cheap, you have a lot of them and terran's army is slow. It's much easier to deny terran's dropships. You can just creep over your base or put 1 spine crawler behind your mineral line. Zerglings and mutas counter dropships pretty hard. And it is not worth it to lose 500m 100g on a drop that has 10% chance of succes. Especially is zerg has infestors.
szopad 5 months ago
@szopad ur stupid because with zerg u have upgrade oerloord speed and ventral sacs whitch is 300min and 300gas and takes a while to upgrade.also terran needs harrassment too stay in the game with a good zerg.zerg also has too cover more bases and constantly run around defending drops and constantly reproducing queens,drones, and fixing gyser counts
DrPooMonster 5 months ago
@szopad 1 spine crawler doesnt deny drops overlords cost supply and larvae dropships have more than 10% chance of success infestors arent fast and mutaling is a weak combo missile turrets alone wreck overlords
Wickedsicked8 5 months ago
@Wickedsicked8 overlord cost supply? you sound like a wood league
szopad 5 months ago
@szopad You're crazy to think that Stephano won simply by attack moving. In all three games his micro was immaculate.
Zepher319 5 months ago
Stephano killed 61 workers at 12:47 and MMA hadn't killed even one drone. Wow
Crisis1224 5 months ago
lol HD made so many mistakes it makes it all the more hilarious
AquaPhoenix2006 5 months ago 2
8:22 Queen riding roaches
SisarothSC 5 months ago 58
@SisarothSC LOOL! they were like "move your fat ass queen!" haha, too funny.
Lazris59 4 months ago
@SisarothSC x~D
Migueldofly 4 months ago
More Stephano :)
FlyingDumpster 5 months ago
16:04 i loled so hard that green splash its so funny
Dagirat 5 months ago
Great cast as usual HD! awesome work!
TheWintergoat 5 months ago
damn that comment about trying to elongate that stick cracked me upp
15Protech 5 months ago
zergasm
FrogStarcraft 5 months ago 3
I want to see more MMA HD
Xajacs 5 months ago
are these players in diamond league?
redryan20000 5 months ago
@redryan20000 i think so, cause im pretty sure im way better than this crap
Roman500 5 months ago
HD is getting old....he keeps making mistakes
redryan20000 5 months ago 2
Woh that is all..
chrisjk123 5 months ago
Am I the only one who thinks that Mules are imba? He loses 4/5th of his eco but still can take the game so far....
hmmmm, sounds balanced :)
Cimbom1990GS 5 months ago