@Arthurein : it is called evolution.... this album is from the 60's, so 40+ years old !!! it was only made of samples, the first in his genrre even years before dj shadows' endtroducing !!! it has got nothing to do with the things your say....okey it's very eclectic, but please open your mind !!
@HelgeOldieGuy867 Based on what? the fact you know all his songs? Music like this, generally is about thought process and pushing the boundaries of what can be produced sonically, as well as challenging peoples perception of music. Obviously thought process is something you've never come across if you're gonna post such opinion, with no backing as to why you think Justin Bieber is better. Now i'm not saying he isn't... but your opinion means shit if you don't know what you're going on about.
@mod07 He does not need foundations. He's trained to tell you that traditional pop music is something good, and this kind of music is crap. That's the foundation.
This isn't the best bit. Regions 2 and 4 were the most inventive sections. The chopped-up-version of 'Deutschland Uber Alles' is classic! And the apocalypse at the end is unforgettable. All in all 'Hymnen' was a damn good piece, the only electronic 'symphony' I ever heard which sounded that convincingly substantial heard as a whole. There was plenty of crap in 60s/70s avant-garde music, but this was/is not in that category. It needs to be heard in its entirety before rushing to judgment.
@HerliMenezes you do know that the term "pop" litterally means popular.... this is no where close to popular and i think that Stockhausen wanted it that way.
People who think Stockhausen's music is impossible to enjoy are delusional. I enjoyed his music long before I understood it at all. My appreciation for it has only deepened with the refinement of my ear throughout the years.
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Whatever good Stockhausen may have done by getting people to re-examine the way they listen,he more than undid by validating a whole generation of talentless composition students, via disfuntional composition departments, who's staff hardly need be capable in basic musical skills such as harmony and counterpoint. His legacy is the misguided belief that synthesised rumbling sounds and unusual noises peppered all over some simplistic harmony are somehow profound or valuable musical compositions.
Most people don't have the same profound training and knowledge about tradition like you have (lol)
You should have tried to convince great performers like Rattle, Pollini, Bernstein, Kremer, Boulez, Mutter, Abbado, Gould and many others that they enjoy disfunctional simplistic music that lacks fundamental skills.
I'm surprised that you never wonder yourself who really lacks fundamental musical training.
I think you misunderstand the thrust of Richtomes remarks. He's referring specifically to such a piece as Hymnen and not to every piece that Stockhausen ever wrote. I personally find Hymnen a major disappointment, as fun as it can be to listen to, especially given the existence of such Stockhausen pieces as Kontrapunkte, Gruppen, Carré, and Punkte. As for such performers as Abbado, Boulez, and Pollini, its pieces like those on my list that have interested them.
@TassiloDavid No, he doesn't refer specifically to Hymnen. He posted the same comment on several KS-videos (and I posted the same response). He dislikes all Stockhausen music (although he only knows few pieces). It is even worse: he dislikes all contemporary music, that according to him doesn't acquire any musical skills and exists only to shock people. Check richtomes distasteful 9/11-video in which he (ab)uses the victims to make a statement about all contemporary art and music.
I remeber Hymnen Anthems. This was originally recorded on 5 channels on Deutche Gramaphon. Course, no one even had a Stereo at that time.
I checked out some Youtube vids of the hadware of more recent times and he seemed like a kid with all the toys. Fucking brilliant big-boys-toys synths mixers etc, but a very loud lack of anything (Nice cable management too!)
What I think I could hear, was like a zoo burning down.
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Anyone could do this on in a couple of hours on a pc sound editor - it has no musical integrity whatsoever and neither does anyone who defends this bullshit as worthy of being called music.
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What a complete and utter load of hogwash - how can anyone swallow this as music ? Ah I know - the critics are semantics experts. It's about time this charlatanism was dismissed once and for all.
@richtomes the charlatanism is only in you as a critic, without any logical thinking, without recognizing facts.
What you dismiss is a whole western tradition in which we not only listen to the music of past great composers, but also listen and study contemporary music.
Indeed. You dismiss great performers like Rattle, Pollini, Kremer, Boulez, Mutter, Abbado, Gould.
All of them are intelligent and emphatic enough too understand what makes a composer like KS so important.
some people think that 'rules' in music excist to limit us....while the rules were just more or less made to easily figure out what is pleasant to the ear, to distinct music from random noises. Our brain works in mathematical patterns...we reconise patterns, as we live and learn. Without any form of tonalty or logic in music, it sounds exactly like this: random noise and sounds.
I'm not quite a fan of random sounds, as any sound in my life (except music) is a sort of random sound...
You just said that everything in life works in a pattern. So all the sound that you hear is also included in that mathematical pattern. So it's refreshing to listen to something that breaks out of that. I dont listen to this when I feel like partying, but more just to do it, you know?
@PowerRedBull "This is relevant because it indicates that music is a deeper cognitive process than unexamined phrases such as, "pleasing to the ear" would suggest. Much research in music cognition seeks to uncover these complex mental processes involved in listening to music, which may seem intuitively simple, yet are vastly intricate and complex."
Yeah, i called it 'pleasant to the ear" to make my point easier to understand for most people. But indeed, it's more complicated and literally ears haven nothing to do with it (brain has)
@PowerRedBull There is little random in this composition of KS. Every electronic sound in this composition has a direction, density, colour, duration etc. Just like most music. So when we listen close to this work, we'll recognize the same qualities as those that are important traditional music. From the moment on that we recognize structure, works like this become also 'pleasant to the ear'.
@PowerRedBull: Familiarize yourself with the history of Western music from Wagner to Webern to Stockhausen and you'll learn how controlled and non-random Hymnen is. It takes Wagner's principle of constant modulation to the extreme. KS had to work hard to introduce aleatoric techniques into his music (which he did to make it less rigid), but the principle of all his previous integral serialist music is *non-repetition*. Variation is not randomness and repetition is not necessarily organization.
hey invankaramasov... "high aesthetics" continually influence "music as a whole in any way" -- Picasso and Stockhausen made it safe for you to buy eggs and milk at the store, without losing YOUR ESTHETIC.
I witnessed a performance in the Amsterdam Concertgebouw some seven years ago, with Stockhausen himself at the controls. I was not too fond of the music either, but it was nice to see the man in person.
This is a definite fake. Notice how the chair moves across the room exactly as it would if you pulled it by a piece of wire attached to one leg. Also, you can still see the oscillating shadow of the sheet of metal in the window after the poltergeist has alegedly ripped it away from the window.
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This isn't significant. It's a bunch of sound clips with a theme that could be thought up in 1 minute, with the clips being put together and pressing the buttons in a program that make it this electronic timbre.
You couldn't make something significant in years if your name is Stockhausen.
No, I challenge you to explain to me how any piece of music (I give you a free choice) is significant to music as a whole in any way. Do that in a satisfactory way and I may be inclined to do the same for this.
Stockhausen's compositions in the 50's and 60's pioneered the way electronic music was considered. No longer did people try and use electronic means to play classical pieces now people wanted to create entirely electronic pieces. This work is significant because it influenced how electronics would influence later compositions (like how computer dance music became popular in the 80's-90's and onward). That's the very short version, because youtube restricts comment length. Google it yourself. :]
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But I could create Ravel's "Bolero" in 10 minutes.
Great art isn't about how long it took to make.
This isn't just random electronic noise.
It's (for me) a powerful piece about HOW NATIONAL ANTHEMS ARE JUST RANDOM BULLSHIT AND NOISE (sort of).
That makes it one of the most important compositions I've ever heard in my life.
(I wrote a country redneck song called "the Good Ol' Red White & Blue" but I'm actually singing about the FRENCH flag to mock America's ego and facism.)
Pink Floyd possibly. The sad fact is while many rock musicians may fancy themselves as having incorporated these influences they are in the main far too primitive to have come anywhere close in actuality - muscially or acoustically.
Every important classical composer of the 20th century is one way or another influenced by Stockhausen. Starting from his contemporaries towards the younger generation.
I just hope my music is as controversial as this when I'm dead. Congratulations. Today this video was selected by the New Musiology blog archiving avant garde, noise, and experimental musics.
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I agree... there has to be some form of music to accommodate the diversity of minds in the world. The certifiably insane should not be left out of our culture.
Still... this is not as good as the "Turds falling in the Toilet in the Fibonacci Sequence". It quantifies the basic human emotions of prolonged stress, strain, and ultimately joy as the scatological recordings are sampled in higher pitches in accordance with the mathematical scale.
I'll say this; I like some of Stockhausen's works, they vary greatly in content and style. If you like Stockhausen, that's great. If you don't like Stockhausen, that's great, but instead of bitching about how it isn't real music wouldn't your time be better used listening to things that you actually like?
I think both richtomes and annedegro are being stupid here, live and let live, or just fuck off and shut up, either is fine with me.
I have never seen an argument that lasted for over 5 months. That's pretty amazing. The original content for which this argument is based I think, has been long gone and now replaced with mere ego. If one's mind has been made about anything there's no way in hell it can be changed. All that is left is bickering.
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I advise you to keep your pooh fetishes out of this debate, but yes one could make the case that all sections of the community should be catered for in art, even the certifiably insane.
I was simply responding to the kind of comments I read: you are the one that is referring to turds (Ligeti) and pooh. Not me.
It must be the same kind of fascination like you have for violence, insanity and art. Most people know there is much more going on in the world of contemporary art, but you don't seem to be interested in things of which you believe are non-violent and sane.
Violence, death and art. If that is all you are interested in, you have taken the wrong profession.
"I think that modern composition students are planning a new terroristic attack, and Stockhausen is their secret leader (he sends messages form heaven). Their goal: Keeping faggots like you from macking stupid videos.
Honestly: What on earth makes you divide composers into two seperate groups (reminds me of the dealing with art in Germany during the Nazi regime)?" etc.
You removed this
Censorship: another propaganda technique you learned from the 3rd Reich.
You know these words were not mine. They are a quote. You have read them in your own video, but don't want to be confronted with the fact that so many people compare your video with Goebels 'art'. So you apply the same technique; censorship. Leave out or ignore everything that doesn't suit you.
Censorship: the same thing so many poor composers suffered that you left out of your video, since they undermine your despicable conclusion about what nowadays is 'entartete Kunst'.
If the common people can't see the Emperor's clothes they are probably too common. Adiabatic art has to be mentally dressed up to maintain the illusion.
I'm modest to know my own limitations. I'm not a great conductor, but I do recognize when somebody else is. I can't play the violin, but I do recognize when somebody has talent. And I do recognize great composers. Stockhausen is, Britten is, Shostakovich is, Stravinsky is, Ligeti is; Orff and Rodrigo aren't bad, but not great.
We don't need a suprahuman level of evolution to enjoy things that other can't.
My students understand very well the meaning of a work like Hymnen. Not all of them like it, but at least they learn the significance of the music that is composed with (at that time) new technologies.
Yes, it is a shame that the whole music business hasn't noticed that this doesn't belong to the classical music tradition and all those shops sell these KS cd's in the classical music department, that magazines about classical music write articles about KS, Nono, Ligeti and that classical trained musicians haven't noticed that they are playing music that has no classical quality at all.
And it is great to see that well-informed guys like you, do anything to lead us back on track.
He didn't beat them. Another example of a wrong conclusion.
This is FUN!
It appears you understand as much of Don Quichote as of contemporary art & classical music.
Don Quichtote thought the windmills were giants. It describes an act of attacking imaginary enemies. The attack is unsuccesful.
Since you like to twist facts and interpret everything towards your own biased opinion, probably you'll say that Don Quichote did win and all the giants are indeed gone.
No, once again you demonstrate your ignorance. in Don Quixote II he wiped them out them with laser weapons and fita magnetica. In Don Quixote III they come back transformed into windfarms but that's another story.
Well, you have no knowledge and henceforth no respect for masterpieces of literature, art or music. For you ignorant folks art, music and literature is just a joke.
Yes, the real joke is that the whole music business hasn't noticed that this doesn't belong to the classical music tradition and all those shops sell these KS cds in the classical music department, that magazines about classical music write articles about KS, Nono, Ligeti and that classical trained musicians haven't noticed that they are playing music that has no classical quality at all.
Fight those windmills! You can do it.
You can change history! Just like Beethoven, Stravinsky and KS did
yes probably 40 year old new music is still shocking for the plain bourgious or the musically faint-hearted that never bothered to understand new developments
The great old tree of the art tradition grows and changes very very slowly. It develops so slowly that the change in it's form is only noticeable over centuries. Mushrooms and funguses come along very quickly and drop off.
Can you write one single comment that isn't complete nonsense? I guess you can't
The changes between JS Bach and the Mannheimers were sudden and not slowly. The change between Berlioz or Schumann and Beethoven was huge, revolutionary and not slowly. Le Sacre caused a scandal because people didn't recognize 'the great old tree of art tradition.
I wouldn't compare Berlioz, Stravinsky and Schumann to funguses the come along very quickly and drop off.
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Wake up annedegro. The difference in musical language between any of the composers you compare and 'Hymnen' is completely disproportionate. Attack is the best form of defence for some however - illustrated by KS in the video 'Stockhausen on Human Evolution'. Instead of addressing the issue, he launches into a monologue sweeping question and questioner into a bucket marked 'Not sufficiently evolved'. No amount of posturing can disguise the lamentable lack of content in such rubbish however.
"Attack is the best form of defence for some however" as you've illustrated on your 9/11-video.
And in your responses to all the comments you NEVER address the issue! The pot calling the kettle black.
Yes Hymnen is new to some ears, but not such a big step when you compare it to other developments in western music. And KS composed more than you are aware of. Among them compositions that make clear how he connects to tradition.
Again: instead of addressing the issue... just repeating a silly comment, with no content. Aren't you able to discuss the things you address? The pot blaming the kettle.
HYMNEN is since its existence one of the electronic classics. The music of KS is among us since the fifties. He is performed by the major orchestras, musicians, ensembles and conductors all over the world. His works are recorded on major record labels.
Fungus can appear over a wide area very quickly - it doesnt endure however. Stockhausen is already fading after only 50 years - it's just not cool any more, and it never had any content. Get some musical training - learn to appreciate music instead of philosophising about conceptual vaccuous trash.
personal attack instead of addressing the issue; the pot blaming the kettle for being black
the issue here is HYMNEN not politics and nothing else.
so if you're able to have a serious discussion (we can even discuss the political consequences of some of KS' decisions in HYMNEN), that would be great
if you only can repeat personal attacks, the discussion is over.
One of the most brilliant works by any composer (Excluding Shostakovitch, Bartok, Ravel, Lutoslawski, Stravinsky, Varese, R. Strauss etc). Great composition by a master!
You are simple being taken in by the illusion that this is good because there is nothing else like it. I think the reason for that is that anybody other composer would think it is shit and not bother composing it!
I have absolutely nothing against Stockhausen the person. I do have a problem with the monopoly which squeeky gate music currently has on the modern music scene however.
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I disagree - melody and consonant harmony have been almost completely no go areas for several decades - a shame when you consider that these are fundamental to music.
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back then it was cool. today it's just a collection/unification/modification of recorded noises and sounds in a pretty much random way. nowadays there's nothing special doing this "music"...i can do it by rubbing my ass on a midiremote controlling a few synths, samplers and fx machines...and some of the listeners of this kind of crap would call it music!
ps: professionals will tell you that for correct assrubbing action you will need an apple computer to achieve the high production quality. :D
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People rightly get annoyed when this kind of thing is held up as if it were somehow related to or equal to the great works of the 400 year old tradition of classical music. It belongs more appropriately with radical pop or jazz. The Jesus and Mary Chain for instance used to turn up all their amps and just have feedback for a whole 'song'. It was art of a kind. We should give this kind of stuff a new name - sonic theater, or sonic design, not to confuse it with the fine art of composition.
Hymnen isn't a 'more complex work' it's a naive relic from the first days of music technology when a few people were fooled into believing that this was somehow groundbreaking and profound art. Effect and novelty are no substitute for content. Nowadays we can see that virtually anyone can put a collage like this together with a few cuts and pastes.
You are deeply deluded if you think that this can be thought of as music. If you look around youtube you will see that there are in fact countless thousands of people making just such sound collages in every possible context. The difference is that they aren't holding it up as if it were somehow great and profound art.
MOOG !
JohnNormic 3 months ago
Lennon took his inspiration for Revolution # 9 from this as well as Cage.
otochari 4 months ago
One thing worse than a crowd of drunks in a football stadium.
A crowd of drunken aliens in a football stadium.
musoderelict 5 months ago
.......number eight *BEURK!* number eight *BEURK!* number eight *BEURK!*........
eurojammer47 6 months ago
Guys, I'd really like to know how to appreciate this music appropiately.
I'm a big fan of Kraftwerk, Daft Punk, Front 242, Justice... But I simply don't get this strange-scary-ear destroying thing.
Can someone help me?
Arthurein 6 months ago
@Arthurein : it is called evolution.... this album is from the 60's, so 40+ years old !!! it was only made of samples, the first in his genrre even years before dj shadows' endtroducing !!! it has got nothing to do with the things your say....okey it's very eclectic, but please open your mind !!
TheBSideDJ 6 months ago
@HelgeOldieGuy867:
this is the first experimentally music ever.
its from the 50's.
Plexpara 7 months ago
@Plexpara Actually, he wasn't nearly the first to do things like this. Look up Pierre Schaffer, John Cage, Edgard Varese....
zeroblitzt 1 month ago
Ziemlich geil
TektonicRichy 7 months ago
@HelgeOldieGuy867 Based on what? the fact you know all his songs? Music like this, generally is about thought process and pushing the boundaries of what can be produced sonically, as well as challenging peoples perception of music. Obviously thought process is something you've never come across if you're gonna post such opinion, with no backing as to why you think Justin Bieber is better. Now i'm not saying he isn't... but your opinion means shit if you don't know what you're going on about.
JoshuaJeanMusic 8 months ago
@HelgeOldieGuy867 HAHAHA....Justin Bieber? HAHAHA I can´t stop loling.
;)
emaplatense 8 months ago
that's crap
Connypiano 10 months ago
@Connypiano Can you please give me the foundations on which you base such an opinion? Thanks :)
mod07 9 months ago
@mod07 He does not need foundations. He's trained to tell you that traditional pop music is something good, and this kind of music is crap. That's the foundation.
gustavoturm 8 months ago
@Connypiano Can you please give me the foundations on which you base such an opinion? Thanks :)
mod07 9 months ago
@mod07
Nope.
Connypiano 9 months ago
@Connypiano just as i supposed.
mod07 8 months ago
@mod07 yeah, people who make blanket statements about contemporary music would probably have said the same to Beethoven when he premiered his works.
tadashibashi 8 months ago
the best thing is to hear the complete piece, i suppose. those 4 minutes here shows nothing of the strenght of this magnific work.
and i highly recommend listening it live with stockhausen presenting it. it's unforgetable.
livmoder4pri 10 months ago
Comment removed
livmoder4pri 10 months ago
This is very interesting to listen to. Very exciting! But I have to admit - it scares the hell out of me at the same time!
LittleMissTotoro 10 months ago
guys go read the urantia book and you will understand stockhausen !
pcpablo7 1 year ago
great vid. learned about this from my college class
potosino11 1 year ago
This isn't the best bit. Regions 2 and 4 were the most inventive sections. The chopped-up-version of 'Deutschland Uber Alles' is classic! And the apocalypse at the end is unforgettable. All in all 'Hymnen' was a damn good piece, the only electronic 'symphony' I ever heard which sounded that convincingly substantial heard as a whole. There was plenty of crap in 60s/70s avant-garde music, but this was/is not in that category. It needs to be heard in its entirety before rushing to judgment.
jimarten1 1 year ago
this is supposed to be ,,,art ? music ?
billiejoeamstrong 1 year ago
@billiejoeamstrong yes
TektonicRichy 1 year ago
He's not as good as Justin Bieber.
justinbieberforking 1 year ago
Think about Beatle's Revolver (Nr. 9) and Moby and Tiesto. The whole idea of marshup.
HerliMenezes 1 year ago
He was the forerunner of modern pop music.
HerliMenezes 1 year ago
@HerliMenezes Where did you get that idea from?
singalongwithtom 1 year ago
@HerliMenezes you do know that the term "pop" litterally means popular.... this is no where close to popular and i think that Stockhausen wanted it that way.
jwilslifeismusic 1 year ago
What album is this on?
arakano 1 year ago
is there any way to get this on CD?
freeform83 1 year ago
This sounds like Pink Floyd - obscured by clouds.
rolandrog 1 year ago
People who think Stockhausen's music is impossible to enjoy are delusional. I enjoyed his music long before I understood it at all. My appreciation for it has only deepened with the refinement of my ear throughout the years.
regcom 1 year ago 11
lol this first music wasnt music it was a lot of mixed anoying and retarded sounds.. but it was just a start.
marx939 1 year ago
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Keep trying !
richtomes 1 year ago
i love this shit! and the video reminds me of a bunch of sperm gone wild!! haha
vanilla0777 1 year ago
@vanilla0777 ha! just what i thought. doesn't help that the piece is called hymnen... remarkably close to hymen....
nnnomi 1 year ago
@nnnomi hahaa yeah almost makes it better tho,doesnt it? ha
vanilla0777 1 year ago
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Whatever good Stockhausen may have done by getting people to re-examine the way they listen,he more than undid by validating a whole generation of talentless composition students, via disfuntional composition departments, who's staff hardly need be capable in basic musical skills such as harmony and counterpoint. His legacy is the misguided belief that synthesised rumbling sounds and unusual noises peppered all over some simplistic harmony are somehow profound or valuable musical compositions.
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes
Most people don't have the same profound training and knowledge about tradition like you have (lol)
You should have tried to convince great performers like Rattle, Pollini, Bernstein, Kremer, Boulez, Mutter, Abbado, Gould and many others that they enjoy disfunctional simplistic music that lacks fundamental skills.
I'm surprised that you never wonder yourself who really lacks fundamental musical training.
revions 1 year ago 27
I think you misunderstand the thrust of Richtomes remarks. He's referring specifically to such a piece as Hymnen and not to every piece that Stockhausen ever wrote. I personally find Hymnen a major disappointment, as fun as it can be to listen to, especially given the existence of such Stockhausen pieces as Kontrapunkte, Gruppen, Carré, and Punkte. As for such performers as Abbado, Boulez, and Pollini, its pieces like those on my list that have interested them.
TassiloDavid 1 year ago
@TassiloDavid No, he doesn't refer specifically to Hymnen. He posted the same comment on several KS-videos (and I posted the same response). He dislikes all Stockhausen music (although he only knows few pieces). It is even worse: he dislikes all contemporary music, that according to him doesn't acquire any musical skills and exists only to shock people. Check richtomes distasteful 9/11-video in which he (ab)uses the victims to make a statement about all contemporary art and music.
revions 1 year ago 2
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@revions LOL 19 Thumbs up - you HAVE been busy
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes
You'd never be able to make a collection of electronic sounds sound as good as Stockhausen does. Nor think of making the sounds he makes.
AcusticDave 1 year ago 3
Che cagata
78obsession 2 years ago
Radiohead have gone down a cul-de-sac, is there a connection?
schmutzgreiffer 2 years ago
Innovative in and of it's time.
Don't criticise Gallileo for ony having a couple of magnifying glasses.
Had Stockhausen the access to modern technology, he would have been a Force Majeur to challlenge Jean Michel-Jarre or Daft Punk!
schmutzgreiffer 2 years ago 6
@schmutzgreiffer
wtf?
stockhausen lived till 2007, and had access to everything...
Maleshevich 2 years ago 3
@Maleshevich
Respect!
I remeber Hymnen Anthems. This was originally recorded on 5 channels on Deutche Gramaphon. Course, no one even had a Stereo at that time.
I checked out some Youtube vids of the hadware of more recent times and he seemed like a kid with all the toys. Fucking brilliant big-boys-toys synths mixers etc, but a very loud lack of anything (Nice cable management too!)
What I think I could hear, was like a zoo burning down.
Kind regards,
Schmutzgreiffer
schmutzgreiffer 2 years ago 5
I thought he died a long time ago.
Let's hear what he did after 1970.
schmutzgreiffer 2 years ago
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Rubbish
richtomes 2 years ago
@richtomes Bernstein is rubbish?
Or is it just semantics that Bernstein commissioned KS?
You have no idea and no sense of humor.
(Okay, you have a 'great' sense of humor when you consider mocking victims of attacks or the Titanic as being funny)
But since when are facts semantics?
Inform yourself
revions 2 years ago 4
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Anyone could do this on in a couple of hours on a pc sound editor - it has no musical integrity whatsoever and neither does anyone who defends this bullshit as worthy of being called music.
richtomes 2 years ago
@richtomes This composition is from the sixties (INFORM YOURSELF!) personal computers were in a terrible shape at that time!
Bernstein commissioned KS with this 'bullshit', so probably Bernstein has had too much musical training? Or too little?
Let me guess!
revions 2 years ago 3
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What a complete and utter load of hogwash - how can anyone swallow this as music ? Ah I know - the critics are semantics experts. It's about time this charlatanism was dismissed once and for all.
richtomes 2 years ago
@richtomes the charlatanism is only in you as a critic, without any logical thinking, without recognizing facts.
What you dismiss is a whole western tradition in which we not only listen to the music of past great composers, but also listen and study contemporary music.
Indeed. You dismiss great performers like Rattle, Pollini, Kremer, Boulez, Mutter, Abbado, Gould.
All of them are intelligent and emphatic enough too understand what makes a composer like KS so important.
revions 2 years ago 4
Comment removed
revions 2 years ago
"transforms them electronically", so is this the earliest remix?
Terrorizzzm 2 years ago 2
Stockhausen would be sickened at such retardation being commented on his music.
mahler151 2 years ago 32
:D
xD
eleanor7rigby 2 years ago
8======D
slig665 2 years ago
@mahler151 I don't think he'd much like your snobbery either :)
singalongwithtom 1 year ago
I thought the name of this song was HYMEN and that's why I clicked on it
xD
eleanor7rigby 2 years ago
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crap!
legdend224 2 years ago
some people think that 'rules' in music excist to limit us....while the rules were just more or less made to easily figure out what is pleasant to the ear, to distinct music from random noises. Our brain works in mathematical patterns...we reconise patterns, as we live and learn. Without any form of tonalty or logic in music, it sounds exactly like this: random noise and sounds.
I'm not quite a fan of random sounds, as any sound in my life (except music) is a sort of random sound...
PowerRedBull 2 years ago
You just said that everything in life works in a pattern. So all the sound that you hear is also included in that mathematical pattern. So it's refreshing to listen to something that breaks out of that. I dont listen to this when I feel like partying, but more just to do it, you know?
Cegrell 2 years ago
@PowerRedBull "This is relevant because it indicates that music is a deeper cognitive process than unexamined phrases such as, "pleasing to the ear" would suggest. Much research in music cognition seeks to uncover these complex mental processes involved in listening to music, which may seem intuitively simple, yet are vastly intricate and complex."
Cegrell 2 years ago
@Cegrell
Yeah, i called it 'pleasant to the ear" to make my point easier to understand for most people. But indeed, it's more complicated and literally ears haven nothing to do with it (brain has)
PowerRedBull 2 years ago
@PowerRedBull There is little random in this composition of KS. Every electronic sound in this composition has a direction, density, colour, duration etc. Just like most music. So when we listen close to this work, we'll recognize the same qualities as those that are important traditional music. From the moment on that we recognize structure, works like this become also 'pleasant to the ear'.
revions 2 years ago
@PowerRedBull: Familiarize yourself with the history of Western music from Wagner to Webern to Stockhausen and you'll learn how controlled and non-random Hymnen is. It takes Wagner's principle of constant modulation to the extreme. KS had to work hard to introduce aleatoric techniques into his music (which he did to make it less rigid), but the principle of all his previous integral serialist music is *non-repetition*. Variation is not randomness and repetition is not necessarily organization.
Fremglerk 5 months ago
How cananyone listen to this crap? It is nothing but unpleasant noise...
Zeetana 2 years ago
This seems to me to be to music what Guernica is to painting.
Haeronthegreat 2 years ago
true genius always challenge the status quo. they are the pioneers.
1dudeman2 2 years ago
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hey invankaramasov... "high aesthetics" continually influence "music as a whole in any way" -- Picasso and Stockhausen made it safe for you to buy eggs and milk at the store, without losing YOUR ESTHETIC.
killamanmankilla 2 years ago
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killamanmankilla 2 years ago
Stockhausen makes the creepiest music that i know of. :(
gekomees 2 years ago
I witnessed a performance in the Amsterdam Concertgebouw some seven years ago, with Stockhausen himself at the controls. I was not too fond of the music either, but it was nice to see the man in person.
BuckshotLaFunke 2 years ago
Listen to Stimmung. That one is :)
AlexanderDaniels 2 years ago
al final se rompe!
usbald 2 years ago
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AudiolabsEngineering 2 years ago
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This is a definite fake. Notice how the chair moves across the room exactly as it would if you pulled it by a piece of wire attached to one leg. Also, you can still see the oscillating shadow of the sheet of metal in the window after the poltergeist has alegedly ripped it away from the window.
ray25620 2 years ago
Very cool music in my opinion; for those of you who are Stockhausen fans I highly recommend his piece "Sternklang."
Catharsis26 2 years ago 4
this is the kind of shit i could create in 10 minutes
bloor30 2 years ago
I like this kind of music and know certain nobody create this in 10 minutes. this is work of pure genius
bitachar 2 years ago
i think you could not even spell "stockhausen"
freedownassbiatch 2 years ago
I don't doubt that you could make some shit in 10 minutes. However, you could never make anything as significant as this.
ivankaramasov 2 years ago 4
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This isn't significant. It's a bunch of sound clips with a theme that could be thought up in 1 minute, with the clips being put together and pressing the buttons in a program that make it this electronic timbre.
You couldn't make something significant in years if your name is Stockhausen.
ClarinetistJuan 2 years ago
Whatever. And James Joyce's books are just a bunch of words, like Picasso's paintings are just a bunch of random paintstrokes, and so on.
ivankaramasov 2 years ago 4
explain, in detail, how this is significant to music in any way?
bloor30 2 years ago
No, I challenge you to explain to me how any piece of music (I give you a free choice) is significant to music as a whole in any way. Do that in a satisfactory way and I may be inclined to do the same for this.
ivankaramasov 2 years ago
Stockhausen's compositions in the 50's and 60's pioneered the way electronic music was considered. No longer did people try and use electronic means to play classical pieces now people wanted to create entirely electronic pieces. This work is significant because it influenced how electronics would influence later compositions (like how computer dance music became popular in the 80's-90's and onward). That's the very short version, because youtube restricts comment length. Google it yourself. :]
BrynneO 2 years ago 4
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But I could create Ravel's "Bolero" in 10 minutes.
Great art isn't about how long it took to make.
This isn't just random electronic noise.
It's (for me) a powerful piece about HOW NATIONAL ANTHEMS ARE JUST RANDOM BULLSHIT AND NOISE (sort of).
That makes it one of the most important compositions I've ever heard in my life.
(I wrote a country redneck song called "the Good Ol' Red White & Blue" but I'm actually singing about the FRENCH flag to mock America's ego and facism.)
High Concept
TouchingYou 2 years ago
I think Stockhausen influenced pop/rock music more than classical - psychedelic bands for instance.
vokshumana 2 years ago
Pink Floyd possibly. The sad fact is while many rock musicians may fancy themselves as having incorporated these influences they are in the main far too primitive to have come anywhere close in actuality - muscially or acoustically.
mrbiggles48 2 years ago
Floyd exactly.
vokshumana 2 years ago
Every important classical composer of the 20th century is one way or another influenced by Stockhausen. Starting from his contemporaries towards the younger generation.
revions 2 years ago 2
I just hope my music is as controversial as this when I'm dead. Congratulations. Today this video was selected by the New Musiology blog archiving avant garde, noise, and experimental musics.
vaspers 2 years ago 3
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I agree... there has to be some form of music to accommodate the diversity of minds in the world. The certifiably insane should not be left out of our culture.
Still... this is not as good as the "Turds falling in the Toilet in the Fibonacci Sequence". It quantifies the basic human emotions of prolonged stress, strain, and ultimately joy as the scatological recordings are sampled in higher pitches in accordance with the mathematical scale.
ToneKicker007 2 years ago
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hilarious !
richtomes 2 years ago
Are these the same turds of which Ligeti famously said one can't spray them gold and then call them art ? Mind you he sprayed a few anyway.
richtomes 2 years ago
i like this music
i also like birdsong
it is not necessary for something to "make logical sense" in order for me to like it
i define music as "organised sound that i like"
that is all
1O74 2 years ago 4
I'll say this; I like some of Stockhausen's works, they vary greatly in content and style. If you like Stockhausen, that's great. If you don't like Stockhausen, that's great, but instead of bitching about how it isn't real music wouldn't your time be better used listening to things that you actually like?
I think both richtomes and annedegro are being stupid here, live and let live, or just fuck off and shut up, either is fine with me.
Crudblud89 2 years ago 7
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LOL !
richtomes 2 years ago
I have never seen an argument that lasted for over 5 months. That's pretty amazing. The original content for which this argument is based I think, has been long gone and now replaced with mere ego. If one's mind has been made about anything there's no way in hell it can be changed. All that is left is bickering.
bootheavy 2 years ago
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Five months pooh. It's been going on roughly since the end of WW2.
richtomes 2 years ago
LOL. Well, richtomes, some people know a lot about the music that was composed since WW2 and know how to enjoy it.
And there are people like you, that know more about pooh and seem to enjoy it.
And it makes me happy to see another fine example that taste is subjective.
annedegro 2 years ago 3
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I advise you to keep your pooh fetishes out of this debate, but yes one could make the case that all sections of the community should be catered for in art, even the certifiably insane.
richtomes 2 years ago
I was simply responding to the kind of comments I read: you are the one that is referring to turds (Ligeti) and pooh. Not me.
It must be the same kind of fascination like you have for violence, insanity and art. Most people know there is much more going on in the world of contemporary art, but you don't seem to be interested in things of which you believe are non-violent and sane.
Violence, death and art. If that is all you are interested in, you have taken the wrong profession.
annedegro 2 years ago 2
This is not the appropriate place to publicise your obsession with violence, toilet materials, insanity and death.
richtomes 2 years ago
Hilarious. Know thyself. In your video you compared composition techniques by Bartok and Debussy with golden showers.
annedegro 2 years ago 2
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Please stop polluting the commentary of this wonderful video of groundbreaking genius music (?) by Stockhausen with your strange fetishes.
richtomes 2 years ago
"I think that modern composition students are planning a new terroristic attack, and Stockhausen is their secret leader (he sends messages form heaven). Their goal: Keeping faggots like you from macking stupid videos.
Honestly: What on earth makes you divide composers into two seperate groups (reminds me of the dealing with art in Germany during the Nazi regime)?" etc.
You removed this
Censorship: another propaganda technique you learned from the 3rd Reich.
What a pity
annedegro 2 years ago 2
LOL - the level of your comments continues to represent you beautifully annedegro - what a suprahuman level of evolution you have attained !
richtomes 2 years ago
You know these words were not mine. They are a quote. You have read them in your own video, but don't want to be confronted with the fact that so many people compare your video with Goebels 'art'. So you apply the same technique; censorship. Leave out or ignore everything that doesn't suit you.
Censorship: the same thing so many poor composers suffered that you left out of your video, since they undermine your despicable conclusion about what nowadays is 'entartete Kunst'.
annedegro 2 years ago
Yawn
richtomes 2 years ago
art was never there only to reach the common people.
special things and special art are precious to special people.
only the majority counts in countries with 'totalitarian' tastes
revions 2 years ago
When art doesn't reach the common people at all it is adiabatic - a failure of transfer.
richtomes 2 years ago
When art doesn't reach common people, they are probably too common.
Some things are made for special people, made by special people.
There is a lot of music from the past by our major composers that never found the 'common people'.
Art can't be 'adiabatic', only the viewers or listeners can fail and not recieve the message that is transfered.
revions 2 years ago
If the common people can't see the Emperor's clothes they are probably too common. Adiabatic art has to be mentally dressed up to maintain the illusion.
richtomes 2 years ago
Never think that what you yourself can't enjoy, somebody else might.
The musical world is bigger than your large ego
Common people are always too common
revions 2 years ago
LOL if you want to see a swollen ego go to 'Stockhausen on human evolution'
After that take a look in the mirror.
richtomes 2 years ago
I'm modest to know my own limitations. I'm not a great conductor, but I do recognize when somebody else is. I can't play the violin, but I do recognize when somebody has talent. And I do recognize great composers. Stockhausen is, Britten is, Shostakovich is, Stravinsky is, Ligeti is; Orff and Rodrigo aren't bad, but not great.
revions 2 years ago
We don't need a suprahuman level of evolution to enjoy things that other can't.
My students understand very well the meaning of a work like Hymnen. Not all of them like it, but at least they learn the significance of the music that is composed with (at that time) new technologies.
annedegro 2 years ago
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Hymnen isn't a 'work' it's a piece of sound design posing as a piece of musical composition which belongs to the classical music tradition.
richtomes 2 years ago
Yes, it is a shame that the whole music business hasn't noticed that this doesn't belong to the classical music tradition and all those shops sell these KS cd's in the classical music department, that magazines about classical music write articles about KS, Nono, Ligeti and that classical trained musicians haven't noticed that they are playing music that has no classical quality at all.
And it is great to see that well-informed guys like you, do anything to lead us back on track.
annedegro 2 years ago 3
It's a tough job, but someone has to do it.
richtomes 2 years ago
Yes, and Don Quichote was convinced he had to fight the windmills.
annedegro 2 years ago 2
He beat them - they're all gone.
richtomes 2 years ago
LOL
He didn't beat them. Another example of a wrong conclusion.
This is FUN!
It appears you understand as much of Don Quichote as of contemporary art & classical music.
Don Quichtote thought the windmills were giants. It describes an act of attacking imaginary enemies. The attack is unsuccesful.
Since you like to twist facts and interpret everything towards your own biased opinion, probably you'll say that Don Quichote did win and all the giants are indeed gone.
annedegro 2 years ago 2
No, once again you demonstrate your ignorance. in Don Quixote II he wiped them out them with laser weapons and fita magnetica. In Don Quixote III they come back transformed into windfarms but that's another story.
richtomes 2 years ago
Well, you have no knowledge and henceforth no respect for masterpieces of literature, art or music. For you ignorant folks art, music and literature is just a joke.
annedegro 2 years ago 2
The real joke is imagining that Hymnen could ever be considered as serious music. You have to be musically ignorant to believe that.
richtomes 2 years ago
Yes, the real joke is that the whole music business hasn't noticed that this doesn't belong to the classical music tradition and all those shops sell these KS cds in the classical music department, that magazines about classical music write articles about KS, Nono, Ligeti and that classical trained musicians haven't noticed that they are playing music that has no classical quality at all.
Fight those windmills! You can do it.
You can change history! Just like Beethoven, Stravinsky and KS did
annedegro 2 years ago 3
Composers like them did not care what is written in book or what authorities command. Instead, composers like them were in pursuit of their own self.
vokshumana 2 years ago
I don't understand what you mean.
How is it not classical? And what do you mean by classical quality?
AlexanderDaniels 2 years ago
anthems as noise!...appropriate, indeed...it looks forward to Allen Ravenstine"s synth work with Pere Ubu!
potterpaint2000 2 years ago
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Shocking...absolutely shocking.
Maddy4Me 2 years ago
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Indeed
richtomes 2 years ago
yes probably 40 year old new music is still shocking for the plain bourgious or the musically faint-hearted that never bothered to understand new developments
annedegro 2 years ago
The great old tree of the art tradition grows and changes very very slowly. It develops so slowly that the change in it's form is only noticeable over centuries. Mushrooms and funguses come along very quickly and drop off.
richtomes 2 years ago
Can you write one single comment that isn't complete nonsense? I guess you can't
The changes between JS Bach and the Mannheimers were sudden and not slowly. The change between Berlioz or Schumann and Beethoven was huge, revolutionary and not slowly. Le Sacre caused a scandal because people didn't recognize 'the great old tree of art tradition.
I wouldn't compare Berlioz, Stravinsky and Schumann to funguses the come along very quickly and drop off.
annedegro 2 years ago
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Wake up annedegro. The difference in musical language between any of the composers you compare and 'Hymnen' is completely disproportionate. Attack is the best form of defence for some however - illustrated by KS in the video 'Stockhausen on Human Evolution'. Instead of addressing the issue, he launches into a monologue sweeping question and questioner into a bucket marked 'Not sufficiently evolved'. No amount of posturing can disguise the lamentable lack of content in such rubbish however.
richtomes 2 years ago
"Attack is the best form of defence for some however" as you've illustrated on your 9/11-video.
And in your responses to all the comments you NEVER address the issue! The pot calling the kettle black.
Yes Hymnen is new to some ears, but not such a big step when you compare it to other developments in western music. And KS composed more than you are aware of. Among them compositions that make clear how he connects to tradition.
annedegro 2 years ago 3
Fungus on the tree of art. Here today, gone tomorrow.
richtomes 2 years ago
Again: instead of addressing the issue... just repeating a silly comment, with no content. Aren't you able to discuss the things you address? The pot blaming the kettle.
HYMNEN is since its existence one of the electronic classics. The music of KS is among us since the fifties. He is performed by the major orchestras, musicians, ensembles and conductors all over the world. His works are recorded on major record labels.
Not the quality of a fungus, I'd say.
annedegro 2 years ago 3
Fungus can appear over a wide area very quickly - it doesnt endure however. Stockhausen is already fading after only 50 years - it's just not cool any more, and it never had any content. Get some musical training - learn to appreciate music instead of philosophising about conceptual vaccuous trash.
richtomes 2 years ago
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annedegro 2 years ago 3
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Get some musical training - learn to appreciate what music is - otherwise go into poliltcs - your skills are better suited for that.
richtomes 2 years ago
personal attack instead of addressing the issue; the pot blaming the kettle for being black
the issue here is HYMNEN not politics and nothing else.
so if you're able to have a serious discussion (we can even discuss the political consequences of some of KS' decisions in HYMNEN), that would be great
if you only can repeat personal attacks, the discussion is over.
annedegro 2 years ago 5
I second that.
richtomes 2 years ago
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annedegro 2 years ago
One of the most brilliant works by any composer (Excluding Shostakovitch, Bartok, Ravel, Lutoslawski, Stravinsky, Varese, R. Strauss etc). Great composition by a master!
demigod1010 2 years ago 6
How can you say that?!?!?
This is white noise, and nothing better...
You are simple being taken in by the illusion that this is good because there is nothing else like it. I think the reason for that is that anybody other composer would think it is shit and not bother composing it!
jackbcool90 2 years ago
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wtf is this..... not music anyways -.-
ballajonte 2 years ago
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annedegro 2 years ago 2
whoa this richtomes guy is pursuing a one-(?)man vendetta against stockhausen on the internet years after stockhausen's death
i've never seen such bravery
AntiProUltra 2 years ago 7
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I have absolutely nothing against Stockhausen the person. I do have a problem with the monopoly which squeeky gate music currently has on the modern music scene however.
richtomes 2 years ago
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annedegro 2 years ago 2
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I disagree - melody and consonant harmony have been almost completely no go areas for several decades - a shame when you consider that these are fundamental to music.
richtomes 2 years ago
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annedegro 2 years ago 2
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annedegro 2 years ago
music ok but video doesnt look seriously.the same information again and again
ikryl 2 years ago 2
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back then it was cool. today it's just a collection/unification/modification of recorded noises and sounds in a pretty much random way. nowadays there's nothing special doing this "music"...i can do it by rubbing my ass on a midiremote controlling a few synths, samplers and fx machines...and some of the listeners of this kind of crap would call it music!
ps: professionals will tell you that for correct assrubbing action you will need an apple computer to achieve the high production quality. :D
hardweird 3 years ago
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People rightly get annoyed when this kind of thing is held up as if it were somehow related to or equal to the great works of the 400 year old tradition of classical music. It belongs more appropriately with radical pop or jazz. The Jesus and Mary Chain for instance used to turn up all their amps and just have feedback for a whole 'song'. It was art of a kind. We should give this kind of stuff a new name - sonic theater, or sonic design, not to confuse it with the fine art of composition.
richtomes 3 years ago
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annedegro 3 years ago
Hymnen isn't a 'more complex work' it's a naive relic from the first days of music technology when a few people were fooled into believing that this was somehow groundbreaking and profound art. Effect and novelty are no substitute for content. Nowadays we can see that virtually anyone can put a collage like this together with a few cuts and pastes.
richtomes 3 years ago
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annedegro 3 years ago
You are deeply deluded if you think that this can be thought of as music. If you look around youtube you will see that there are in fact countless thousands of people making just such sound collages in every possible context. The difference is that they aren't holding it up as if it were somehow great and profound art.
richtomes 3 years ago
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annedegro 3 years ago
Sentiment, feeling, emotion, are qualities which one branch of twentieth century art scorned and abandoned, to it's detriment and ultimate demise.
richtomes 3 years ago
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annedegro 3 years ago