The line that should be drawn is in the law. No problem believing ANYTHING. But when you demand that others act according to that belief... the line has been crossed. There was nothing wrong with Charie Manson believing what he believed. It is him getting others to act on his beliefs that made it all wrong. Our laws did not prevent the crijmes but any laws that would would have to be like "thought crime" laws. This is why laws and government must be SECULAR!!!
How much can you fuck up a kids mind, before it could be legally considered psychological torture? These Jesus camps do ruin lives, their style of "teachings" lead to wasted childhoods full of self hate, depression with suicide often being the logical conclusion.
I like Penn for the most part, but he's sorta like the stoned guy at a party who just keeps rambling and dancing around the main point for 15 minutes before he actually gets to the point; which then takes 30 seconds to get across.
So while he does says some reasonable and truthful things that resonate with me for some time, they're often coated in too much verbal diarrhea.
Because the type of extreme religious indoctrination in "Jesus Camp" is not only harmful to those children's mental states and how they view themselves, but also how they view others. It's the kind of imbecilic, intolerant bullshit that led to shit like the Crusades. Or, for a modern example, 9/11.
Trust me, I grew up in places like this. I was miserable all the time. People used to whip themselves and never do anything fun because they thought they weren't good enough for God.
@herpderp312 that is what i said. As long as your beliefs don't cause you to harm anyone.so obviously if your beliefs cause you to crash airplanes into buildings killing thousands or go rape across three continents then your beliefs are bullshit and should not be tolerated.
@exposingthemachine Jesus was made up by the early church. They wanted to create a savior figure for the church. Jesus never existed in the first century (or at all). Nazareth didn't exist either. Only in the bible it exists. But if you actually look at something called GEOGRAPHY! you will see that back then it was nothing more than a graveyard. It's all bullshit.
Put the crazies to the side for a minute. What's the problem with a group of people who want to live a good life and do good for other people? How is that bad? 7th Day Adventists run some of the best hospitals in the world. Mennonites are often the first on the scene after disasters. I don't see that as bad.
first off,jesus camp is child abuse in my opinion...afterthought,if you have enough rational thought you will usually become an athiest,sometimes even have a little bitternes and disgust against religion..and god.which is a little wierd since you don't believe in him or it..then you feel you might be in a click of genius with the likes of dawkins or hitchens(loved em both)..but with a little more rational thought you will start to realize that you are now in a cult like,strong...belief in no god
Love is also felt deep in the heart, but cannot be investigated and does not stem from logic or evidence, so by Penn's logic, love is not true and isn't a good thing. Not to argue with the point he is making, but with the logic he is using to make the point.
Jesus camp is a brainwashing factory for children. Children are naturally trusting of adults, and religious adults take advantage of this. Jesus camp is very sinister because It violates the human rights of children by scaring them into submission with nonsensical, unprovable fairy tale bullshit. Jesus camp should be illegal. Children shouldnt be taught about religion at all, or at least not until they are 18, and as adults can legally choose for themselves if they want to believe in god.
Penn's point, I think, is that decision making based on faith and belief is inherently less likely to lead to correct conclusions than decision making based on logic and evidence. I basically agree, with the caveat that I think everyone, or nearly everyone, including most atheists, base their decisions on core beliefs not subject to logic. But one can recognize this tendency and try to rise above it.
I just wanted to remind you of our constitutional freedoms and freedom of religion being one of them I think that it should be okay for people to have faith as long as they are not hurting anyone or forceing that believe on others or the state that I belive is wrong now that being said there should be a distinction between offering faith to others and forceing faith on others if I came up to you and said hey would you like to belive in jesus and you said no or no thanks then I should back off
I mean no offense cause I love your show bullshit and there are alot of things your saying I agree with you on christians that act that way are absolutely wrong I feel uncomfortable around them and I'm a christian whats wrong with beliving in something if your not hurting anyone?
wait are you saying that everyone should draw the line at faith that you just shouldn't believe? I don't want to misunderstand your words penn and I'm not accusing you in anyway are you trying to say its wrong to have anykind of faith?
i dont understand....nothing in regards to the metaphysical can ever be anything more than a feeling.--thats the essense of the metaphysical realm. now i agree that claiming truth strictly because its convenient and "feels good" is childsplay, you also have highly moral and respected people that claim Jesus' word and their christian faith to be absolute truth--however, they ONLY manifest it in charity and good will--Hence, having people take their faith as truth can be quite beneficial....
@TheGreatDeciever55 In other words--there is always gunna be two sides of the coin--that doesnt mean you toss out the entire coin--- however in the end our actions ultimately revolve around US, Mc`veigh may have been christian but his actions were a result of lunacy--lunacy that he branded as `gods work` (naturally relating it to a heavy influence in his life) Now that same logic can interchange--because alot of people see feeding the poor as "Gods work"---fuckin duality....
@FloridaRaider You are wrong, I am not an approval seeking attention whore, I am an attention whore in general, I do accept that and I have no problems with it, but at least I'm not a troll, that lashes out for no reason. Go do something more productive with your life and find yourself a girlfriend.
The funny thing, about these wars over beliefs, that after each person comments they just stoop to a lower level. If an athiest gets angry because a Christian starts a war with him/her, they will fight back. Alot of athiests will say these people always force their beliefs on us but when they choose to fight back they do the exact thing that they hate. Who wants to be the adult here? I am a Christian but I don't care what other people believe. When it's forced on me I say thats great for you
according to your mention of "charlie manson, any sort of terrorist", you come off as believing there are absolutes. (i.e., murder & child rape is wrong). as in a moral compass.
if so, where did we get this moral compass. the answer is obvious, from God.
every argument against God assumes God. you're just suppressing the truth with unrighteousness, just as the bible says.
FYI: Small children need to be taught right from wrong by their parents. Adults can think for themselves and use logic and common sense to formulate opinions on right and wrong. Try to act like an adult for and USE YOU OWN MIND to decide right n wrong. You don't need a god or religious figure to tell you how to act morally. It's an inherent part of human nature. The way you think, you're saying you would rape and murder if there was no god. Seek psychological help.You're disturbing!
hitler thought it was right to murder 6 million jews & others because he thought he was doing humanity a favor by exterminating the lessor race & empowering the white arian race. thinking they were more evolved. so... since hitler thought that was right (not wrong). should we therefore go by his standard of right or wrong? go back 4.6 million years ago. there you believe life started from nothing. now that is disturbing & silly. you silly little boy.
Umm..Hitler didn't wage war "In the name of atheism".
Also, the soldiers who commited the horrible acts of brutality and savagery were almost all Christian, as was the vast majority of the German populace.
Plus, if you weren't aware, there are lunatics who are religious as well as atheists.
Plus, it's well known that in the history of mankind, more people have died from wars based on RELIGIOUS BELIEFS than ANY other non natural cause combined !
its ok though, ignorance can b fixed. its stupidity that cant.
true Christians love their enemy(obviously u need to read again my 3 post here) Christians r the ones facing persecution everyday. nazi were only using Christianity as a cover. "thou shall not murder". there is such thing as true or false conversions. i'm christian & no 1 hates religion as mush as me. Jesus speaks many times on the depravity of religion, wars in particular.
Keep believing your fantasies. I feel sorry foe people like you that were brainwashed at a young age and believe these myths as if they were facts. I feel lucky that I can think and reason for myself and not take as fact the stories I was told as a child. But I realize that countless people like yourself might just be incapable or rational thought because of the conditioning you faced as a child and wanting to please your parents by not questioning these fanciful ridiculous tales.
Ok then, even that can happen. When weak minds encounter that life is too difficult to handle, they can turn to the religion and the supernatural to give them comfort that they aren't capable of attaining on their own.
As far as evoltion goes, you must be high to think that. It's funny, by religious kooks like yourself have been trying to disprove it from its onset..ALL UNSUCCESSFULLY, I might add. A Noble prize awaits the person that does disprove it. Why the fear of reality?
look, if u wish 2 believe that u evolved from a tree stump, be my guest, but dont call it science & dont say its not a religion also. u have to believe in that fairytale (everything came from nothing). it has not, cannot be proven
But god always was, right? What created god? Nothing?
And your god, who supposedly answers prayers, hates amputees, and has NEVER made a limb reappear. Why, because it goes against the laws of physics, and no miracle or supernatural event has EVER occurred, and been proven (other than by unreliable word of mouth) in the history of mankind. Not one.
God lives outside of His creation. how can He create time space & matter if he's in it?God is,was and always will be eternal.God loves all,even u,but u'd rather suppress that truth with unrighteousness.God abides by the laws He created.God came down from His thrown in heaven once & for all(Jesus).there were signs&wonders&even after all His miracles,many still refused to put their trust in Him.nothing new under the sun 2day. evolution has not been proven,no transitional fossils. Not 1
Whatever. It's clear that you're beyond any rational discussion, and are living in your own little magic based fantasy world. I wish you the best. Happy holidays.
believing in evolution is intellectual suicide. i just wish you could see that. the bibles says that "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom".
It's clear that you're beyond any rational discussion, and are living in your own little magic based fantasy world. I wish you the best too. Merry Christmas!!!
one last thing, watch this video thats in here (youtube). it isnt long, but might shed light on why i believe. please. see, you got me beggin'.
@dustydirt Wait, your claiming he is living in a fantasy world because he doesn't accept a book written by men thousands of years ago, who had no knowledge of modern scientific method? What makes the bible anymore correct then the Koran, or Pagan mythology? don't think that its correct automatically because you have been told, from a very young age, to believe in a certain way. Use an intellectual argument like, that since man wrote the bible and man is flawed then the bible is in turn flawed.
@dustydirt The date according to the Gregorian Calendar? Or perhaps you want the Earth Calendar, or maybe you want Julian,or the Chinese, and so forth, the date that we use is relative to the calendar you use, not in terms of the day and month, but in terms of years. If you want the date by the standard issue American Calendar, then its December 3rd, 2010 Common Era. Don't think that I don't respect religious people, but Religion is faith based, not intellectual based, nothing wrong with that.
@dustydirt A.D? You must be refering to my E.V, Era Vulgaris, or Era of Commoners.Your not questioning how things came to be, you just accept what you've been told. If I told a new born child every day from birth that murder was acceptable then, as a result of sociological structuring of an environment the baby would accept it. Now replace murder with a scripture that says a 2000 year old carpenter was the savior of man, but the evidence of his existence is shaky at best, it becomes a faux fact
@dustydirt By the way, the bible also supports slavery, since at the time it was written (By flawed men who wanted to suppress terrible actions) slavery was an accepted part of society. Now do you support slavery? Or are you going against your holy book?
@pulpficfan1 ZINGER back him into a corner, because if he is against slavery that means hes going to hell and no better than us. god is infallible right? if you do not support slavery and believe in the bible, YOU ARE GOING TO HELL. PERIOD. its gods word you will burn for an eternity, im about to go buy a couple slaves right now.
OH!.. so you do believe in the God of the bible?... or at least the dumbed down God called I.D.?
& btw.. i'm a product of the God of the bible.
if charlie darwin made a monkey out of you, well then you have no one to blame but yourself.
don't worry, we all die. so your wish will come true... maybe sooner than you think, but the same goes for you. differance is, i care about where you will end up. i don't want you to go to hell.
then if you don't believe in God. how do you account for biology? i mean "mother nature" needed a place(space) to put the goo(matter) when(time) she started the billions of years of evolution.
the thing with most God hating evolutonists, is that they love to sweep that under the rug & hope no one trips, but the lump on the rug is so high i can't even imagine getting over it. maybe in 20.4 billion years i could.
@dustydirt Well, there's no such thing as "mother nature" and I can't hate something that doesn't exist, so you got off to a bad start on that post. I'm not sure what "20.4 billion years" is supposed to mean.
Also, the thing with God-loving idiots is their argument devolves over time: now you say because I can't personally explain the creation of life, that God must have done it.
@dustydirt So, what were people's consciences witnessing before the Bible was written? Did those people just go to hell because they were born at the wrong time?
By the way:
"if we were to take your thoughts & display them in front of the world to see, you'd be ashamed... as i would."
This is called projection, very basic psychology. Look into it before you speak for others. You obviously have doubt (the reason you argue on YouTube), and this makes you feel insecure.
thats what the "as i would" meant. meaning if my thoughts were displayed also... i would be ashamed. i should have been clearer-er. anywho.
before the bible was nothing. Genesis was written by adam,edited by moses.its quite possible that God Himself wrote the first chapter of Genesis.God has been available to His creating since the beginning, but rejection has always been there too, even till this day. i do one-on-one evangelism also, i just like to do it everywhere i go, youtube 2
@zofspade the jewish consciences were witnessing that when jesus was to come to die on the cross, their spirit will be saved from God's angry wrath, which came from Adam & Eve's disobedience in the garden. if they had believed in christ's coming and saving power before he came, as the prophets once told. peoples conciouses even before the Jews wrote the penteteuch was that the people were guilty and believed that they needed to do something to cover up for the sin that Adam & Eve committed.
@dustydirt Thats all completely relevent based on the calendar you look at. Looking at the the Gregorian map will tell you the date is December 3rd 2010 Era Vulgaris(or what religious people call After death which deals with the fact that the men who made the calendar were in a world where religious aspects were sown into many things) , or maybe you want the Julian Calendar, or the Chinese Calendar, or the Akan, or the Hebrew or Hindu one.
How can you talk about "ignorance" when you're completely ignorant of science, and believe in magical unseen beings..LOL And apart from being ignorant of science, it's called being "delusional" when people claim to think invisible magical beings are real. LOL And I don't hate religion. I hate that religion causes people to be naive and gullible and believe the unbelievable just because someone says it's so, without any evidence. Sorry, but as a rational, logical adult, I'll pass
You're an idiot Dusty. By your reasoning, it's ok for a spooky unseen sky daddy to have been created "from nothing", but not for life in the universe.
BTW, life doesn't begin "from nothing", it needs physical material.
Also, because science TODAY doesn't know exactly how life began, you conclude that "god did it". That's childish primative thinking. For thousands of years people explained the unknown by saying "god did it", (like sicknesses caused by viruses), until proven wrong
Do you realize that just a couple of hundred years ago there were no electric lights, TV, cars, etc. Look how far humanity has progressed in the last 100 years? Try thinking logically and like an adult instead of whining like a child. Wah, we don't know for sure how life beganm and I wanna know NOW..wah. Be patient, little kid. Are you even smart enough to realize that if you were born in Iraq to fanatical Muslims, you's be preaching THAT is reality. Your religion is of your parents
control??? who's doing the controlling smart guy? obama?
"system of a down" ...what are, emo?
i bet you love using that line.
"Designed to keep you ignorant and unquestioning."
from what? the only thing i question is that stupid "fairytale for grownups" evolution theory. if you want to believe we evolved from monkeys & that a common ancester amongst many is a banana... dont call me ignorant.
& its not to say that there are crazy christians, both you & i know that they do exist. true christianity is love, even thine enemy. a true christian is ready to give an answer with meekness & fear. so in summary, foolishness is in the belief that man evolved from a rock 20 billion years ago. call me crazy, but i choose God.
so who made the standard of moral right & wrong? did hitler? should we go by what osama bin laden believes? you miss the whole point of reasoning when you mock christianity but don't look at what you believe. which is...
that the whole universe came from an explosion 20 billion years ago from nothing & that life came from a rock. this religious belief (i say religious because you have now left science & are now in fairytale land) is totally ridiculous. if you cant see that then i cant help you.
Hi guys! I was just wondering if anyone knew where I could share my Toyota™ Camry™ story? I have a Toyota™ Camry™ and have had many fun times with it. I just wish there were some place I could share these Camry Tales™ with others...
@RedBeardCzech Remember Noah, meaning remember when God flooded the Earth because all the people had become so evil. I would say drowning millions of people is rather violent.
@6packofwallace According to God, the wages of sin is death, so that's why he drowned and killed all those people; they were sinners... Then Jesus came and died for our sins so that's why "sinners" aren't killed by God now. Just my opinion though
my opinion? MURDERING innocent children by drowning, on a global scale is inexcusable... no matter man's "sin". its fucking disgusting and maniacal. for an omniscient creator, he sure did fuck up pretty bad when he realized "oh wait, im not digging these people. theyre a buncha sinners. time to start from scratch." and jesus wasnt any better. your god is a sadist who gets off on blood sacrifice... even his own son's... himself...whatever
I tend to draw the line at any belief that posits an Us vs Them, in particular a religion that says there are the saved, the elect, the chosen, and then the REST of you people because it makes some people just not matter. Religious violence is fueled by this belief that "my" group is saved, matters and is on the inside, while those outside might not even be human, therefore it's OK to kill them...
@omglooklol5 No, assholes founded them, then good people followed along, but the assholness put to it in its core usually comes out eventually on even good people.
Penn, the most hardcore Christian was Christ himself. He paid for it. He was slaughtered on a cross by the Romans. He was very real and it is historical fact. Let's not say that we can't prove that Jesus healed the sick, drove out demons, walked on water, made food for thousands out of then air....there were witnesses. You view yourself as your own god, and it is understandable why you do not want to accept the real God. That would take away your own power, and that would destroy your ego.
GODDAMN PENN. I love you so much. I've said time and time again (arguing on both sides, I like to see how people stand against the opposition), "Once you've said that it's something that you feel inside of you, there's nothing I can prove or disprove. It's personal to you, and I can't experience it." Just as much as I have the right not to believe in God, you've got the right to believe, and visa versa. Reality is perception, and we don't share the same perception.
penn is a pretty smart man, for a conservative lol... id say christopher hitchens but hes not a defender of conservatism, hes a defender of republicans... so far penn is the smartest right wing man i know... for the smartest left wing man, id have to go with brian moore... if the presidential election was penn for the libertarians vs moore for the socialists, i think we would have been better off either way because both men may disagree, but they are smart and un-bribed
@wildboy789789 Penn is a Libertarian, not a conservative nor necessarily a Republican. For some reason, many socialists think conservatism is much akin to libertarianism, theres some overlap, but it's largely wishfull thinking due to the fact most socialists abhor the thought of individualism with it's inherent lack of state control over most aspects of society.
@FaganRoberts libertarians want alot of freedom... i want to take away the corporations freedom to rape the population of there money... call me a democratic socialist, im proud :)
@wildboy789789 Don't purchase products made by corporations you don't like. I don't. It's rather cowardly to petition the state to do that for you. It makes you appear weak, like you need the State to do something for you that you can't do for yourself. Governments like to portray the free market as evil while the REAL power brokers reside in Washington and greedy bureaucrats laughing at you all the way to the Treasury. Corporations can't refrain freedom. Government does through power & control.
@FaganRoberts first off, lets agree that anarchy leads to gang warlords... so you need some form of government... if the government lets corporations operate outside the law, then corporations can take over the power of the government (like america now)... with a strong dictator or democracy, or even a better planned republic you can defeat the corporate interest... and in a democracy your freedoms wont be taken away... im a democratic socialist, no corruption possible
@wildboy789789 Strange think about socialism is that, absent freedom of choice, it always takes an enormous amount of government coercion to implement over the individual and society. Considering that governments have killed untold millions of innocents in the 20th century makes anarchy look rather innocuous by comparisson. No thanks. I'll stick to my Constutional Republic and the Bill of Rights. I prefer dangerous & free over slavish & safe, any day of the week. Rather radical, huh? Peace out!
@FaganRoberts your pretty dumb... im not defending governments in general... most leftist would argue that lack of government control let hitler gain power... anarchy has killed millions if you call lack of a civil democracy anarchy... id call anything with a dictator anarchy because they are in control because of absence of government... with a strong socialist democracy, no corruption is possible and you get all the benifits of government, whats your solution? lol
@wildboy789789 A strong centralized government gave rise to National Socialist Hitler. Much like Marxist Stalin on the left. Both abhored individual freedoms. Both had a strong dependency on the State cult of personality. There's no such thing as a socialist democracy. It's an oxymoron. Solution to these problems? Decentralized, limited government within context of a Constitutional Republic. You shouldn't want a dependency on authority. Don't be afraid of freedom. Government is not your friend.
@wildboy789789 Well, I'll pass on the riots. Seems like the Greeks get into a baby-like frenzy when the BIG government socialists don't change their diapers enough to suit them. Yes sir! Nothing beats cradle-to-grave coddling alright! (Aaaah name calling! That'll score some points for your side - LOL)
@FaganRoberts social democrats have 3rd parties EVERYWHERE in europe, i only called you an idiot because you said they didnt exist... as for your comment about riots in greece, maybe they value democracy enough to get up off the couch and defend it... want to know a few countrys where people hated democracy and sat on their ass and followed the government like a right wing simpleton? nazi germany, and the ussr, NOT greece
@wildboy789789 Democracy & socialism are incompatible. You can call them that, but socialism does not enhance democracy, it degrades it. Socialism doesn't work well and panty waist Greeks were not defending it. They wanted more of a broken down system because they are too afraid of freedom. Freedom comes with a price and all they wanted was their butts wiped more by the State. Sad, so sad.
@wildboy789789 Stick with a Constitutional representational Republic, my friend, and we'll all be better off. You are better than your BIG government. Give it up, you don't need it.
@FaganRoberts i dont want to make this government bigger, because then i would be a neo-conservative... i want to fix the system, then make is strong enough to never be corrupted by bribes and corporations... the BP oil spill made certine animals EXTINCT and they are still in buisness, they should be in jail... george bush went to war illegally and made money off american deaths, but to corporate republicans hes a hero... i fucking hate your type, your the terrorists scareing americans
@wildboy789789 If these are the answers and remedies you seek, then by all means you should be supporting smaller government, lower taxes, less regulation, strict Constitutional constraints. By defunding the government, you break the war lobby which gives them less impetus to start Zionist/terrorist inspired, expensive unending no-win wars. War is the health of the State. International meddling costs BIG bucks and restricts most freedoms. BIG oil? Then stop buying gas & sell your car.
@FaganRoberts my governent should have the power to outlaw monopolies or cartels... ill drive whatever the fuck i want, then ill make sure the system is uncorrupt behind it... the best part about a democracy is that i can get EVERYTHING i want if its in the best interests of the majority, so if we have to take 50% of a billionairs funds to feed the poor, then that poor ass hole just might have to live on 500 million... capitalists disgust me
@wildboy789789 Aaaah, the tyranny of the majority! I prefer rule of law myself. Individual rights for all. Remember the government does not have the right to appropriate other people's wealth. Only the power. By the way, when was the last time a poor person offered you a job? Or are you on government relief? You sound like someone who has a vested interest in government welfare by a strident dependency on the State for your economic well being. You know? Other people's (taxpayers) money.
@FaganRoberts when im brought into a world where people already have billionair families that bribe EVERY LAW MAKER, then yes ill gladly vote to redistribute the wealth... if were going to play this childish game with our money, then lets agree to set some aside so we can all eat and have a much lower crime rate, nicer cities, better schools... for the self proclaimed "christian right" you guys sure do hate jesus for being the liberal hippie he was
@wildboy789789 When a corporation or head is caught bribing the govt. perhaps we could use the fines imposed to feed your face. After all bribery is a crime. Why punish honest corporations? You know we should not, so you invent imaginary crimes that blanket an entire system, ie the evil free market. Face it, socialism is more corrupt than capitalism can ever hope to be. BTW: When have I ever proclaimed to be a Christian? LOL! I'm an atheist and I detest ALL religions.
@FaganRoberts my bad, i forgot i wasent talking to a republican, ignore my christianity comment :)... who is going to enforce that bribes dont take place? it would have to be some socialist regulatory system... dont be scared of the word socialism, UPS and the postal service are competeing just fine in a mixed market... socialism enforces child labor laws... and obama being the socialist he is, decided to open space travel to the private sector (so it can compete with nasa) (its about time)
@wildboy789789 All of these articles can be accomplished in the free market and by private enterprise. The potential for space travel has been open to the private sector for years, if you have the bucks. You know that!
@FaganRoberts have you ever seen "astronaut farmer"?... its a movie from 2006 about a guy who builds his own rocket and the government labels it as "developing weapons"... when did the government allow corporations to build rocket/missle launching sites? NEVER... with proper regulation its happening now... you really dont understand the world, there is no way you could fly into space without being watched or instantly shot down... just thank obama, ignore his blackness for 10 seconds :P
@FaganRoberts no no no... if you ignore the whiteness youll only hate him more... i said ignore the blackness, then you might listen to him and say "wow what a smart, almost white, individual"
@wildboy789789 Irrespective of his skin color or genetic make up, I believe Obama to have about average intelligence. Which is a good thing because that means 50% of the population has a higher intelligence than he on average.
@wildboy789789 I agree Bush has an average intelligence. Which was a bad thing because that means 50% of the population has a lower intelligence than Bush. I think this is what predicates the notion that Obama is an intellectual miracle. Which is of course an error. The 2 of them could bounce around like 2 peas in a can and you couldn't distinguish the difference betwen them. Other than by color of skin - lol.
Obama earned his way into Occidental and then Columbia; he was not a legacy and did not have politically connected parents. He then did well enough among his very bright peers to be admitted into Harvard Law School. People who have average intelligence do not graduate from Columbia no matter what their skin color. And a law student with average intelligence even among other law students (which will be higher than that of the population at large) will not get into Harvard Law.
Continued: Consider this: all of Jeses' apostles except John died ugly, brutal deaths because they refused to denounce Jesus and deny that he was raised from the dead. Now, I ask you, are you aware of anybody in history who submitted to torture and death in support of any concept they believed to be a lie? What are the chances that ALL 10 REMAINING APOSTLES would go down for Jesus knowing the whole risen thing was a grand hoax?
Penn, dude, you got this all wrong. Let's work on a logic chain: 1. If I believe and there IS a God, I score - everlasting salvation baby! I get to live it up for all time in the coolest place in the universe. 2. If I believe and there ISN'T a God, no harm, no foul. I lived a good life. Here is the kicker, if I don't believe and there IS a God, I'm screwed! Forever hanging out in the firey furnace where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:50)!
And you will see the King of Glory coming on clouds with Fire to bring judgement, and even those who pierced Him will mourn, and you will mourn and cry out to the mountains to fall on you as to hide you from the FACE of the One who sits on the Throne, His name is above all names, His name is JESUS CHRIST the Holy One of GOD...
Faith, like the faith Atheists have when they "know" there is no god. People claim they know the universe personally way too often. If you're going to go by facts, Agnosticism is the way to go: admitting that you can't prove either side. Instead of trusting there isn't, you accept eternal uncertainty. Once life is made from all nonliving material, rocks, moisture, electricity, whatever- THEN you will have proven at least part of the nonexistence of god and Atheists would have less faith.
@kingofphools You have just described an atheist. No atheist states there is no god, we're just waiting for the evidence which we KNOW, through the mere lack of it, does not yet exist. Welcome to the fold of the faithless!
@FaganRoberts I did not describe an Atheist; I very much so described an agnostic. Atheists believe there is no god, agnostics admit uncertainty. That is, by definition, the difference.
Atheism: the active disbelief in God.
Agnostic: one who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
The next part was personal opinion, I'd put faith in there being no God (become an Atheist) if people learn how to make living material from nonliving material. I know that is an Atheist.
@kingofphools Disbelief requires no faith or action. At the very last level of serious logical inquiry, all we end up with is uncertainty. Can't prove a negative and all that stuff..........
If you are uncertain there is a god, you're an atheist, me friend. Agnosticism (Huxley) is just a novel 19th century polite society term for atheist.
But I don't split hairs or quibble much over little terms. Peace out!
There are two common definitions of atheism: the original definition which was the rejection of belief in god(s) and the more modern one which is the lack of belief in god(s). The first one is the more common ones for mainstream US society (and typically listed first in the dictionary), and the second one is more favored by atheists themselves. Agnosticism is not a modern invention, only the term is. "Agnosticism" by Robert Flint gives some historical background.
@ihaveadesk1 If one has a LACK of a belief in a god(s) then one REJECTS the notion of a god(s). If one REJECTS the notion of a god(s) then one obviously LACKS the belief in god(s). Theres no distinction here whatsoever. Just semantics. If you'll reread my post you'll discover I never stated "agnosticism" was a novel concept, but I stand by the fact it is rather a novel TERM coined by Huxley.
You can be unsure like an agnostic, without accepting or rejecting the existence of god(s), which contrasts with explicit atheism. There is a significant distinction between what is now called implicit atheism and explicit atheism.
When the term atheism was originating, it was usually used to mean that one explicitly rejected a certain god (which the speaker regarded as true) in favor of worshiping another god (which the speaker regarded as a false god).
@ihaveadesk1 Either you believe in a god or you don't. Since the god concept is an unfalsifiable hypothesis one can never really know there is no god. Much like a believer can never really know there is one. I'm an atheist, agnostic, whatever, but I surely do not believe in the god(s) because there is a complete lack of evidence for it's existence. I believe there is a very, very slim CHANCE of a god, or flying fairies, etc., but that is a far as anyone can logically go.
I disagree with Penn that faith is the line. I think faith is OK. The line should be drawn at the point where it is anything more than personal. Faith should be treated like exercise. Exercise is good for the body(your own).You exercising will never help me and you have zero right to tell me to exercise. Faith is the same in that it can be productive for the individual but needs to stay there. The minute you think"what's good for me must be good for you", a line has been crossed.
@finerbiner Thats like trying to say a pure free market works. Its subject to human nature, and we're pretty bad in regards to religion and keeping it to ourselves. Best not to have it at all since the potential for it to get out of control is pretty high. People believing in things that are lies/wrong is detrimental to society. Just look at scientology for example.
@finerbiner Heres another way of looking at it. Would you remove a benign tumor or let it sit and hope it does not turn malignant? Would you ignore a man who's math is ass backwards and claims 3+4=12 or wait until he teaches his kids that and hope for the best?
@Shyhalu So if we go with your theory, who decides? The constitution says the govt shall not establish or prohibit the practice of religion. Your opinion of this would change 180 degrees if an issue close to your heart was being discussed.
What I always find most amazing is that your perception that you are right emboldens you to the point where you are willing to throw out the constitution to get your way. what this shows is that you are no different than the religious zealot.
@finerbiner Science, statistics, and human nature decides. How am I not right in the idea that people living with beliefs equivalent to the dark ages and are misinformed to the point where they can be taken advantage of is immoral and dangerous to society as well as our species in general? The government isn't perfect, the constitution has flaws (IE: The kkk allowed to promote hatred and violence) and living with falsehoods does nothing but hide the truth.
@Shyhalu Everyone MUST live by your sense of right and wrong? That is exactly hoe the Taliban feels. They are right, therefore any difference of opinion only shows how wrong you are. Sorry, I don't want to live in that world. be careful when you think you have the right to act as referee of morals. People who you completely disagree with think the same. Sometimes they will have the power and you will be subject to it.
The line that should be drawn is in the law. No problem believing ANYTHING. But when you demand that others act according to that belief... the line has been crossed. There was nothing wrong with Charie Manson believing what he believed. It is him getting others to act on his beliefs that made it all wrong. Our laws did not prevent the crijmes but any laws that would would have to be like "thought crime" laws. This is why laws and government must be SECULAR!!!
Bluefairy513 6 months ago
The line that should be drawn is in the law. No religion should dictate law. SEPARATION!
Bluefairy513 6 months ago
How much can you fuck up a kids mind, before it could be legally considered psychological torture? These Jesus camps do ruin lives, their style of "teachings" lead to wasted childhoods full of self hate, depression with suicide often being the logical conclusion.
Groth1175 6 months ago
I like Penn for the most part, but he's sorta like the stoned guy at a party who just keeps rambling and dancing around the main point for 15 minutes before he actually gets to the point; which then takes 30 seconds to get across.
So while he does says some reasonable and truthful things that resonate with me for some time, they're often coated in too much verbal diarrhea.
CRhetoric1 6 months ago
What I like is how he stated his belief, but wasn't a dick about it. This is the biggest problem with both sides of the debate.
Tehpengwan 7 months ago
believe what you want as log as you don't harm anyone ,who cares?
cassidy99ful 8 months ago
@cassidy99ful
Because the type of extreme religious indoctrination in "Jesus Camp" is not only harmful to those children's mental states and how they view themselves, but also how they view others. It's the kind of imbecilic, intolerant bullshit that led to shit like the Crusades. Or, for a modern example, 9/11.
Trust me, I grew up in places like this. I was miserable all the time. People used to whip themselves and never do anything fun because they thought they weren't good enough for God.
herpderp312 7 months ago
@herpderp312 that is what i said. As long as your beliefs don't cause you to harm anyone.so obviously if your beliefs cause you to crash airplanes into buildings killing thousands or go rape across three continents then your beliefs are bullshit and should not be tolerated.
cassidy99ful 7 months ago
@cassidy99ful So what should we do now, ban the belief in communism? I am an atheist but I am tired of people wanting to outlaw beliefs.
attemptingtobehumble 7 months ago
@exposingthemachine Jesus was made up by the early church. They wanted to create a savior figure for the church. Jesus never existed in the first century (or at all). Nazareth didn't exist either. Only in the bible it exists. But if you actually look at something called GEOGRAPHY! you will see that back then it was nothing more than a graveyard. It's all bullshit.
folkrockman 8 months ago
Put the crazies to the side for a minute. What's the problem with a group of people who want to live a good life and do good for other people? How is that bad? 7th Day Adventists run some of the best hospitals in the world. Mennonites are often the first on the scene after disasters. I don't see that as bad.
TastyTacoBoy 9 months ago
@TastyTacoBoy you don;t see adults telling young kids that they are going to hell if they do not live a certain way as bad. Get a clue dude FAST!.
folkrockman 8 months ago
first off,jesus camp is child abuse in my opinion...afterthought,if you have enough rational thought you will usually become an athiest,sometimes even have a little bitternes and disgust against religion..and god.which is a little wierd since you don't believe in him or it..then you feel you might be in a click of genius with the likes of dawkins or hitchens(loved em both)..but with a little more rational thought you will start to realize that you are now in a cult like,strong...belief in no god
xfactorb25222 9 months ago
Love is also felt deep in the heart, but cannot be investigated and does not stem from logic or evidence, so by Penn's logic, love is not true and isn't a good thing. Not to argue with the point he is making, but with the logic he is using to make the point.
hulsey1976 9 months ago
Jesus camp is a brainwashing factory for children. Children are naturally trusting of adults, and religious adults take advantage of this. Jesus camp is very sinister because It violates the human rights of children by scaring them into submission with nonsensical, unprovable fairy tale bullshit. Jesus camp should be illegal. Children shouldnt be taught about religion at all, or at least not until they are 18, and as adults can legally choose for themselves if they want to believe in god.
flightoftheunknown 9 months ago 17
"just cause you feel it doesn't mean it's there" - Radiohead
knoxrox167 10 months ago 2
Atheism is a cheap answer.
yahooveritas 10 months ago
@yahooveritas
cheaper than giving in for the comfort of an afterlife?
knoxrox167 10 months ago
@yahooveritas lol.
Dogmeat1950 9 months ago
i cant see their being a Superior God that reigns over us all....
bigman6190 10 months ago
Penn's point, I think, is that decision making based on faith and belief is inherently less likely to lead to correct conclusions than decision making based on logic and evidence. I basically agree, with the caveat that I think everyone, or nearly everyone, including most atheists, base their decisions on core beliefs not subject to logic. But one can recognize this tendency and try to rise above it.
WalkaCrookedLine 11 months ago
but if I keep pushing it on you and trying to sell it to you thats harassment and I belive personally that that is wrong.
spiderlily21 11 months ago
I just wanted to remind you of our constitutional freedoms and freedom of religion being one of them I think that it should be okay for people to have faith as long as they are not hurting anyone or forceing that believe on others or the state that I belive is wrong now that being said there should be a distinction between offering faith to others and forceing faith on others if I came up to you and said hey would you like to belive in jesus and you said no or no thanks then I should back off
spiderlily21 11 months ago
I mean no offense cause I love your show bullshit and there are alot of things your saying I agree with you on christians that act that way are absolutely wrong I feel uncomfortable around them and I'm a christian whats wrong with beliving in something if your not hurting anyone?
spiderlily21 11 months ago
penn don't you have faith in yourself? that is faith should we do away with all faith then?
spiderlily21 11 months ago
wait are you saying that everyone should draw the line at faith that you just shouldn't believe? I don't want to misunderstand your words penn and I'm not accusing you in anyway are you trying to say its wrong to have anykind of faith?
spiderlily21 11 months ago
I wish this would actually play the video instead of only the commercials.
6flakes 11 months ago
Penn looks strange with long hair.
I think he should be a short-haired person.
harpo103 11 months ago
Actually everything being connected is the basis of Quantum Mechanics. I get your point though
UndeadClown95 1 year ago
If you haven't seen the film, don't comment on it.
donatellanobody 1 year ago
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
Carl Sagan
FosterZygote 1 year ago 25
I liked this. Very insightful. Subbed.
JonT2384 1 year ago
i dont understand....nothing in regards to the metaphysical can ever be anything more than a feeling.--thats the essense of the metaphysical realm. now i agree that claiming truth strictly because its convenient and "feels good" is childsplay, you also have highly moral and respected people that claim Jesus' word and their christian faith to be absolute truth--however, they ONLY manifest it in charity and good will--Hence, having people take their faith as truth can be quite beneficial....
TheGreatDeciever55 1 year ago
@TheGreatDeciever55 In other words--there is always gunna be two sides of the coin--that doesnt mean you toss out the entire coin--- however in the end our actions ultimately revolve around US, Mc`veigh may have been christian but his actions were a result of lunacy--lunacy that he branded as `gods work` (naturally relating it to a heavy influence in his life) Now that same logic can interchange--because alot of people see feeding the poor as "Gods work"---fuckin duality....
TheGreatDeciever55 1 year ago
@zospade hey i'm sayin tho. Jews wrote just about the whole OT. no offense
crs000000 1 year ago
My god. this is the Penn I have come to know and love for busting of all kinds of bullshit?
What happened?
Now he's acting as apologist for some fringe wacko Christian group?
His cred just went down 50% with his fans of which I am still one of. though It's just disappointing.
papamalo 1 year ago
34 people think they are the center of the universe.
undergroundboy 1 year ago
@undergroundboy and one person is a approval seeking attention whore.
FloridaRaider 1 year ago
@FloridaRaider You are wrong, I am not an approval seeking attention whore, I am an attention whore in general, I do accept that and I have no problems with it, but at least I'm not a troll, that lashes out for no reason. Go do something more productive with your life and find yourself a girlfriend.
undergroundboy 1 year ago
@undergroundboy I'm not a troll..just making an observation. And a accurate observation.
FloridaRaider 1 year ago
I like how the guys screen name is referenced to Slayer :) \m/
BartlesvilleGuy28 1 year ago
I agree with a lot of what he says. But why is he even talking about something he has not seen? I've seen the movie and it's really scary.
tubedweeb 1 year ago
Penn is a total asshole
tubedweeb 1 year ago
@tubedweeb Yeah, that's why we love him so. ^_^
CalicoVall 1 year ago
The funny thing, about these wars over beliefs, that after each person comments they just stoop to a lower level. If an athiest gets angry because a Christian starts a war with him/her, they will fight back. Alot of athiests will say these people always force their beliefs on us but when they choose to fight back they do the exact thing that they hate. Who wants to be the adult here? I am a Christian but I don't care what other people believe. When it's forced on me I say thats great for you
RUMELSKIN 1 year ago
and one last thing. do you believe in absolutes?
according to your mention of "charlie manson, any sort of terrorist", you come off as believing there are absolutes. (i.e., murder & child rape is wrong). as in a moral compass.
if so, where did we get this moral compass. the answer is obvious, from God.
every argument against God assumes God. you're just suppressing the truth with unrighteousness, just as the bible says.
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt
FYI: Small children need to be taught right from wrong by their parents. Adults can think for themselves and use logic and common sense to formulate opinions on right and wrong. Try to act like an adult for and USE YOU OWN MIND to decide right n wrong. You don't need a god or religious figure to tell you how to act morally. It's an inherent part of human nature. The way you think, you're saying you would rape and murder if there was no god. Seek psychological help.You're disturbing!
drzeus99 1 year ago
@drzeus99
hitler thought it was right to murder 6 million jews & others because he thought he was doing humanity a favor by exterminating the lessor race & empowering the white arian race. thinking they were more evolved. so... since hitler thought that was right (not wrong). should we therefore go by his standard of right or wrong? go back 4.6 million years ago. there you believe life started from nothing. now that is disturbing & silly. you silly little boy.
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt
Umm..Hitler didn't wage war "In the name of atheism".
Also, the soldiers who commited the horrible acts of brutality and savagery were almost all Christian, as was the vast majority of the German populace.
Plus, if you weren't aware, there are lunatics who are religious as well as atheists.
Plus, it's well known that in the history of mankind, more people have died from wars based on RELIGIOUS BELIEFS than ANY other non natural cause combined !
drzeus99 1 year ago
@drzeus99
u r so ignorant of Christianity, its a shame.
its ok though, ignorance can b fixed. its stupidity that cant.
true Christians love their enemy(obviously u need to read again my 3 post here) Christians r the ones facing persecution everyday. nazi were only using Christianity as a cover. "thou shall not murder". there is such thing as true or false conversions. i'm christian & no 1 hates religion as mush as me. Jesus speaks many times on the depravity of religion, wars in particular.
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt
Keep believing your fantasies. I feel sorry foe people like you that were brainwashed at a young age and believe these myths as if they were facts. I feel lucky that I can think and reason for myself and not take as fact the stories I was told as a child. But I realize that countless people like yourself might just be incapable or rational thought because of the conditioning you faced as a child and wanting to please your parents by not questioning these fanciful ridiculous tales.
drzeus99 1 year ago
@drzeus99
there you go with your ignorance. how can you possibly know my child life???
fact is, i became a Christian at 40.
evolution is a scientific impossibility!!!
evolution my friend is a fanciful ridiculous tale.
dude
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt lol
SmileAtTheAbyss 1 year ago
@dustydirt
Ok then, even that can happen. When weak minds encounter that life is too difficult to handle, they can turn to the religion and the supernatural to give them comfort that they aren't capable of attaining on their own.
As far as evoltion goes, you must be high to think that. It's funny, by religious kooks like yourself have been trying to disprove it from its onset..ALL UNSUCCESSFULLY, I might add. A Noble prize awaits the person that does disprove it. Why the fear of reality?
drzeus99 1 year ago
@drzeus99
hard to handle? i love my life more than ever. Jesus is life. the comfort i have is far beyond the comfort this corrupted world has to offer.
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
~matthew 11:28 (this is truth).
look, if u wish 2 believe that u evolved from a tree stump, be my guest, but dont call it science & dont say its not a religion also. u have to believe in that fairytale (everything came from nothing). it has not, cannot be proven
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt
But god always was, right? What created god? Nothing?
And your god, who supposedly answers prayers, hates amputees, and has NEVER made a limb reappear. Why, because it goes against the laws of physics, and no miracle or supernatural event has EVER occurred, and been proven (other than by unreliable word of mouth) in the history of mankind. Not one.
drzeus99 1 year ago
@drzeus99
God lives outside of His creation. how can He create time space & matter if he's in it?God is,was and always will be eternal.God loves all,even u,but u'd rather suppress that truth with unrighteousness.God abides by the laws He created.God came down from His thrown in heaven once & for all(Jesus).there were signs&wonders&even after all His miracles,many still refused to put their trust in Him.nothing new under the sun 2day. evolution has not been proven,no transitional fossils. Not 1
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt
Whatever. It's clear that you're beyond any rational discussion, and are living in your own little magic based fantasy world. I wish you the best. Happy holidays.
drzeus99 1 year ago
@drzeus99
believing in evolution is intellectual suicide. i just wish you could see that. the bibles says that "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom".
It's clear that you're beyond any rational discussion, and are living in your own little magic based fantasy world. I wish you the best too. Merry Christmas!!!
one last thing, watch this video thats in here (youtube). it isnt long, but might shed light on why i believe. please. see, you got me beggin'.
/watch?v=G0XDkj2CCpA
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt Wait, your claiming he is living in a fantasy world because he doesn't accept a book written by men thousands of years ago, who had no knowledge of modern scientific method? What makes the bible anymore correct then the Koran, or Pagan mythology? don't think that its correct automatically because you have been told, from a very young age, to believe in a certain way. Use an intellectual argument like, that since man wrote the bible and man is flawed then the bible is in turn flawed.
pulpficfan1 1 year ago
@pulpficfan1
so tell me, & i know this seems like a dumb question...
but what is the date today? month/day/year???
tell me...
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt The date according to the Gregorian Calendar? Or perhaps you want the Earth Calendar, or maybe you want Julian,or the Chinese, and so forth, the date that we use is relative to the calendar you use, not in terms of the day and month, but in terms of years. If you want the date by the standard issue American Calendar, then its December 3rd, 2010 Common Era. Don't think that I don't respect religious people, but Religion is faith based, not intellectual based, nothing wrong with that.
pulpficfan1 1 year ago
@pulpficfan1
spoken like a true evolutionist. making things so much more difficult.
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools ~ Romans 1:22"
r u a gregorian (worshiper of Pope Gregory XIII)? of the julian era? chinese? stay with me, don't get excited, calm down.
ok...so...
that is exactly 733,987 days from what?
yup, you guessed it... A.D. (anno domini) Latin for "The Year Of Our Lord!!!"
so from now on, everytime you see the calendar date, you will be reminded of Jesus Christ.
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt A.D? You must be refering to my E.V, Era Vulgaris, or Era of Commoners.Your not questioning how things came to be, you just accept what you've been told. If I told a new born child every day from birth that murder was acceptable then, as a result of sociological structuring of an environment the baby would accept it. Now replace murder with a scripture that says a 2000 year old carpenter was the savior of man, but the evidence of his existence is shaky at best, it becomes a faux fact
pulpficfan1 1 year ago
@dustydirt By the way, the bible also supports slavery, since at the time it was written (By flawed men who wanted to suppress terrible actions) slavery was an accepted part of society. Now do you support slavery? Or are you going against your holy book?
pulpficfan1 1 year ago
@pulpficfan1 ZINGER back him into a corner, because if he is against slavery that means hes going to hell and no better than us. god is infallible right? if you do not support slavery and believe in the bible, YOU ARE GOING TO HELL. PERIOD. its gods word you will burn for an eternity, im about to go buy a couple slaves right now.
kingjosh87 1 year ago
@dustydirt Spoken like a true idiot, making things seem as simple as your own mind.
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade
yet not as simple as your reply.
the hurdels you have to jump, climb & cross to make any sense of evolution.
there's nothing complicated about evolution.
from the boom to the goo to the zoo to you.
simple.
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt Wow, did you quote that from a textbook? By textbook I mean idiot. And by idiot I mean yourself.
Let's break this down:
From the boom- The Big Bang is cosmology, not biology and not related to evolution.
To the goo- Abiogenesis is also not related to evolution.
To the zoo- This is not as clever as you think it is.
To you- So I'm a product of evolution but not you?
You truly are a simpleton. If there was an after-life, I'd enjoy watching your genes get weeded out.
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade
OH!.. so you do believe in the God of the bible?... or at least the dumbed down God called I.D.?
& btw.. i'm a product of the God of the bible.
if charlie darwin made a monkey out of you, well then you have no one to blame but yourself.
don't worry, we all die. so your wish will come true... maybe sooner than you think, but the same goes for you. differance is, i care about where you will end up. i don't want you to go to hell.
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt No, I don't believe in God or an afterlife (that's why I said "If there was").
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade
then if you don't believe in God. how do you account for biology? i mean "mother nature" needed a place(space) to put the goo(matter) when(time) she started the billions of years of evolution.
the thing with most God hating evolutonists, is that they love to sweep that under the rug & hope no one trips, but the lump on the rug is so high i can't even imagine getting over it. maybe in 20.4 billion years i could.
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt Well, there's no such thing as "mother nature" and I can't hate something that doesn't exist, so you got off to a bad start on that post. I'm not sure what "20.4 billion years" is supposed to mean.
Also, the thing with God-loving idiots is their argument devolves over time: now you say because I can't personally explain the creation of life, that God must have done it.
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade
what i'm saying...
is that your conscience bares witness to the FACT that there is a God... the God of the bible.
& you supress that truth with unrighteousness... you love your sin. bottom line every time.
if we were to take your thoughts & display them in front of the world to see, you'd be ashamed... as i would.
God knows your thoughts, He knows your heart. that is why we need a savior, a savior to save us from ourselves. do you think you're a good person?
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt So, what were people's consciences witnessing before the Bible was written? Did those people just go to hell because they were born at the wrong time?
By the way:
"if we were to take your thoughts & display them in front of the world to see, you'd be ashamed... as i would."
This is called projection, very basic psychology. Look into it before you speak for others. You obviously have doubt (the reason you argue on YouTube), and this makes you feel insecure.
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade
thats what the "as i would" meant. meaning if my thoughts were displayed also... i would be ashamed. i should have been clearer-er. anywho.
before the bible was nothing. Genesis was written by adam,edited by moses.its quite possible that God Himself wrote the first chapter of Genesis.God has been available to His creating since the beginning, but rejection has always been there too, even till this day. i do one-on-one evangelism also, i just like to do it everywhere i go, youtube 2
dustydirt 1 year ago
@zofspade the jewish consciences were witnessing that when jesus was to come to die on the cross, their spirit will be saved from God's angry wrath, which came from Adam & Eve's disobedience in the garden. if they had believed in christ's coming and saving power before he came, as the prophets once told. peoples conciouses even before the Jews wrote the penteteuch was that the people were guilty and believed that they needed to do something to cover up for the sin that Adam & Eve committed.
crs000000 1 year ago
@crs000000 I was talking about the Old Testament retard. You aren't fun anymore.
zofspade 1 year ago
Comment removed
crs000000 1 year ago
@crs000000 And you don't know how happy I am about that.
zofspade 1 year ago
@dustydirt Thats all completely relevent based on the calendar you look at. Looking at the the Gregorian map will tell you the date is December 3rd 2010 Era Vulgaris(or what religious people call After death which deals with the fact that the men who made the calendar were in a world where religious aspects were sown into many things) , or maybe you want the Julian Calendar, or the Chinese Calendar, or the Akan, or the Hebrew or Hindu one.
pulpficfan1 1 year ago
@dustydirt
How can you talk about "ignorance" when you're completely ignorant of science, and believe in magical unseen beings..LOL And apart from being ignorant of science, it's called being "delusional" when people claim to think invisible magical beings are real. LOL And I don't hate religion. I hate that religion causes people to be naive and gullible and believe the unbelievable just because someone says it's so, without any evidence. Sorry, but as a rational, logical adult, I'll pass
drzeus99 1 year ago
@dustydirt
You're an idiot Dusty. By your reasoning, it's ok for a spooky unseen sky daddy to have been created "from nothing", but not for life in the universe.
BTW, life doesn't begin "from nothing", it needs physical material.
Also, because science TODAY doesn't know exactly how life began, you conclude that "god did it". That's childish primative thinking. For thousands of years people explained the unknown by saying "god did it", (like sicknesses caused by viruses), until proven wrong
drzeus99 1 year ago
@dustydirt
Do you realize that just a couple of hundred years ago there were no electric lights, TV, cars, etc. Look how far humanity has progressed in the last 100 years? Try thinking logically and like an adult instead of whining like a child. Wah, we don't know for sure how life beganm and I wanna know NOW..wah. Be patient, little kid. Are you even smart enough to realize that if you were born in Iraq to fanatical Muslims, you's be preaching THAT is reality. Your religion is of your parents
drzeus99 1 year ago
@dustydirt
Dude, seriously?
Life... Life is God man.
That book you are reading? That is an outdated TOOL used to control and unite large numbers of people.
Science and logic, understanding our surroundings better, That is to grow closer to God.
Open your eyes man. you are being used by a SYSTEM OF A DOWN...
Designed to keep you ignorant and unquestioning..
Well done, my good and faithful servant.
greencrow8 1 year ago
@greencrow8
control??? who's doing the controlling smart guy? obama?
"system of a down" ...what are, emo?
i bet you love using that line.
"Designed to keep you ignorant and unquestioning."
from what? the only thing i question is that stupid "fairytale for grownups" evolution theory. if you want to believe we evolved from monkeys & that a common ancester amongst many is a banana... dont call me ignorant.
dustydirt 1 year ago
& its not to say that there are crazy christians, both you & i know that they do exist. true christianity is love, even thine enemy. a true christian is ready to give an answer with meekness & fear. so in summary, foolishness is in the belief that man evolved from a rock 20 billion years ago. call me crazy, but i choose God.
dustydirt 1 year ago
so who made the standard of moral right & wrong? did hitler? should we go by what osama bin laden believes? you miss the whole point of reasoning when you mock christianity but don't look at what you believe. which is...
that the whole universe came from an explosion 20 billion years ago from nothing & that life came from a rock. this religious belief (i say religious because you have now left science & are now in fairytale land) is totally ridiculous. if you cant see that then i cant help you.
dustydirt 1 year ago
An error occurred, please try again later?
truckcompany 1 year ago
PENNNNN!
Lamtitude 1 year ago
i like watching ads on the internet
dizzle123456 1 year ago
welll... i think wasnt very smart to laugh and say i think i have faith. what was that
johnny1990san 1 year ago
The force is strong in this one
tienen23 1 year ago
Hi guys! I was just wondering if anyone knew where I could share my Toyota™ Camry™ story? I have a Toyota™ Camry™ and have had many fun times with it. I just wish there were some place I could share these Camry Tales™ with others...
jjjooommm222 1 year ago
I like this guy telling me how I should believe. Thanks for your permission, like I needed it.
By the way God does not draw the line at violence. Remember Noah? Would you say He went to far?
6packofwallace 1 year ago
@6packofwallace why would i care for noah.....lol
RedBeardCzech 1 year ago
@RedBeardCzech Remember Noah, meaning remember when God flooded the Earth because all the people had become so evil. I would say drowning millions of people is rather violent.
6packofwallace 1 year ago
@6packofwallace According to God, the wages of sin is death, so that's why he drowned and killed all those people; they were sinners... Then Jesus came and died for our sins so that's why "sinners" aren't killed by God now. Just my opinion though
spogee 1 year ago
@spogee just your opinion. lets keep it that way.
my opinion? MURDERING innocent children by drowning, on a global scale is inexcusable... no matter man's "sin". its fucking disgusting and maniacal. for an omniscient creator, he sure did fuck up pretty bad when he realized "oh wait, im not digging these people. theyre a buncha sinners. time to start from scratch." and jesus wasnt any better. your god is a sadist who gets off on blood sacrifice... even his own son's... himself...whatever
justinoakley999 1 year ago
@justinoakley999 yeah, i never stated my opinion as fact and neither have you, so we got no problem :) i do agree [to an extent].
spogee 1 year ago
I tend to draw the line at any belief that posits an Us vs Them, in particular a religion that says there are the saved, the elect, the chosen, and then the REST of you people because it makes some people just not matter. Religious violence is fueled by this belief that "my" group is saved, matters and is on the inside, while those outside might not even be human, therefore it's OK to kill them...
BeauJames59 1 year ago
The trailer for that film scared me and made me really sad. I don't think I could sit through it,
ateopuertorico 1 year ago
Religion was good for soceity for a little bit, then some assholes came along and made it fucked up.
omglooklol5 1 year ago
@omglooklol5 No, assholes founded them, then good people followed along, but the assholness put to it in its core usually comes out eventually on even good people.
ateopuertorico 1 year ago
Penn, the most hardcore Christian was Christ himself. He paid for it. He was slaughtered on a cross by the Romans. He was very real and it is historical fact. Let's not say that we can't prove that Jesus healed the sick, drove out demons, walked on water, made food for thousands out of then air....there were witnesses. You view yourself as your own god, and it is understandable why you do not want to accept the real God. That would take away your own power, and that would destroy your ego.
robertogan 1 year ago
@robertogan there is no historical fact of the existence of Jesus. -.-
elementswrath 1 year ago
@elementswrath
hey, i got a question...
tell me what todays date... month/date/year.
dustydirt 1 year ago
Hey Penn, anyone ever tell you that you kinda look like jesus with glasses? [or was it appelonius?] whatever.
bastardchildofmary 1 year ago
bummer. i just now find this channel and it's done. saw penn on "the last word". did us atheists good answering all the religious questions.
tomitstube 1 year ago
GODDAMN PENN. I love you so much. I've said time and time again (arguing on both sides, I like to see how people stand against the opposition), "Once you've said that it's something that you feel inside of you, there's nothing I can prove or disprove. It's personal to you, and I can't experience it." Just as much as I have the right not to believe in God, you've got the right to believe, and visa versa. Reality is perception, and we don't share the same perception.
DogMechanic 1 year ago
penn is a pretty smart man, for a conservative lol... id say christopher hitchens but hes not a defender of conservatism, hes a defender of republicans... so far penn is the smartest right wing man i know... for the smartest left wing man, id have to go with brian moore... if the presidential election was penn for the libertarians vs moore for the socialists, i think we would have been better off either way because both men may disagree, but they are smart and un-bribed
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 Penn is a Libertarian, not a conservative nor necessarily a Republican. For some reason, many socialists think conservatism is much akin to libertarianism, theres some overlap, but it's largely wishfull thinking due to the fact most socialists abhor the thought of individualism with it's inherent lack of state control over most aspects of society.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts libertarians want alot of freedom... i want to take away the corporations freedom to rape the population of there money... call me a democratic socialist, im proud :)
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 Don't purchase products made by corporations you don't like. I don't. It's rather cowardly to petition the state to do that for you. It makes you appear weak, like you need the State to do something for you that you can't do for yourself. Governments like to portray the free market as evil while the REAL power brokers reside in Washington and greedy bureaucrats laughing at you all the way to the Treasury. Corporations can't refrain freedom. Government does through power & control.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts first off, lets agree that anarchy leads to gang warlords... so you need some form of government... if the government lets corporations operate outside the law, then corporations can take over the power of the government (like america now)... with a strong dictator or democracy, or even a better planned republic you can defeat the corporate interest... and in a democracy your freedoms wont be taken away... im a democratic socialist, no corruption possible
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 Strange think about socialism is that, absent freedom of choice, it always takes an enormous amount of government coercion to implement over the individual and society. Considering that governments have killed untold millions of innocents in the 20th century makes anarchy look rather innocuous by comparisson. No thanks. I'll stick to my Constutional Republic and the Bill of Rights. I prefer dangerous & free over slavish & safe, any day of the week. Rather radical, huh? Peace out!
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts your pretty dumb... im not defending governments in general... most leftist would argue that lack of government control let hitler gain power... anarchy has killed millions if you call lack of a civil democracy anarchy... id call anything with a dictator anarchy because they are in control because of absence of government... with a strong socialist democracy, no corruption is possible and you get all the benifits of government, whats your solution? lol
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 A strong centralized government gave rise to National Socialist Hitler. Much like Marxist Stalin on the left. Both abhored individual freedoms. Both had a strong dependency on the State cult of personality. There's no such thing as a socialist democracy. It's an oxymoron. Solution to these problems? Decentralized, limited government within context of a Constitutional Republic. You shouldn't want a dependency on authority. Don't be afraid of freedom. Government is not your friend.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts tell that to the social democratic party of greece, idiot
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 Well, I'll pass on the riots. Seems like the Greeks get into a baby-like frenzy when the BIG government socialists don't change their diapers enough to suit them. Yes sir! Nothing beats cradle-to-grave coddling alright! (Aaaah name calling! That'll score some points for your side - LOL)
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts social democrats have 3rd parties EVERYWHERE in europe, i only called you an idiot because you said they didnt exist... as for your comment about riots in greece, maybe they value democracy enough to get up off the couch and defend it... want to know a few countrys where people hated democracy and sat on their ass and followed the government like a right wing simpleton? nazi germany, and the ussr, NOT greece
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 Democracy & socialism are incompatible. You can call them that, but socialism does not enhance democracy, it degrades it. Socialism doesn't work well and panty waist Greeks were not defending it. They wanted more of a broken down system because they are too afraid of freedom. Freedom comes with a price and all they wanted was their butts wiped more by the State. Sad, so sad.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts socialism = tax... democracy = votes... your saying taxes and votes cant be used in the same system?
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 Stick with a Constitutional representational Republic, my friend, and we'll all be better off. You are better than your BIG government. Give it up, you don't need it.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts i dont want to make this government bigger, because then i would be a neo-conservative... i want to fix the system, then make is strong enough to never be corrupted by bribes and corporations... the BP oil spill made certine animals EXTINCT and they are still in buisness, they should be in jail... george bush went to war illegally and made money off american deaths, but to corporate republicans hes a hero... i fucking hate your type, your the terrorists scareing americans
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 If these are the answers and remedies you seek, then by all means you should be supporting smaller government, lower taxes, less regulation, strict Constitutional constraints. By defunding the government, you break the war lobby which gives them less impetus to start Zionist/terrorist inspired, expensive unending no-win wars. War is the health of the State. International meddling costs BIG bucks and restricts most freedoms. BIG oil? Then stop buying gas & sell your car.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts my governent should have the power to outlaw monopolies or cartels... ill drive whatever the fuck i want, then ill make sure the system is uncorrupt behind it... the best part about a democracy is that i can get EVERYTHING i want if its in the best interests of the majority, so if we have to take 50% of a billionairs funds to feed the poor, then that poor ass hole just might have to live on 500 million... capitalists disgust me
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 Aaaah, the tyranny of the majority! I prefer rule of law myself. Individual rights for all. Remember the government does not have the right to appropriate other people's wealth. Only the power. By the way, when was the last time a poor person offered you a job? Or are you on government relief? You sound like someone who has a vested interest in government welfare by a strident dependency on the State for your economic well being. You know? Other people's (taxpayers) money.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts when im brought into a world where people already have billionair families that bribe EVERY LAW MAKER, then yes ill gladly vote to redistribute the wealth... if were going to play this childish game with our money, then lets agree to set some aside so we can all eat and have a much lower crime rate, nicer cities, better schools... for the self proclaimed "christian right" you guys sure do hate jesus for being the liberal hippie he was
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 When a corporation or head is caught bribing the govt. perhaps we could use the fines imposed to feed your face. After all bribery is a crime. Why punish honest corporations? You know we should not, so you invent imaginary crimes that blanket an entire system, ie the evil free market. Face it, socialism is more corrupt than capitalism can ever hope to be. BTW: When have I ever proclaimed to be a Christian? LOL! I'm an atheist and I detest ALL religions.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts my bad, i forgot i wasent talking to a republican, ignore my christianity comment :)... who is going to enforce that bribes dont take place? it would have to be some socialist regulatory system... dont be scared of the word socialism, UPS and the postal service are competeing just fine in a mixed market... socialism enforces child labor laws... and obama being the socialist he is, decided to open space travel to the private sector (so it can compete with nasa) (its about time)
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 All of these articles can be accomplished in the free market and by private enterprise. The potential for space travel has been open to the private sector for years, if you have the bucks. You know that!
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts have you ever seen "astronaut farmer"?... its a movie from 2006 about a guy who builds his own rocket and the government labels it as "developing weapons"... when did the government allow corporations to build rocket/missle launching sites? NEVER... with proper regulation its happening now... you really dont understand the world, there is no way you could fly into space without being watched or instantly shot down... just thank obama, ignore his blackness for 10 seconds :P
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 I ignore his "whiteness." But most of the time I just ignore all of him, like most people do.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts no no no... if you ignore the whiteness youll only hate him more... i said ignore the blackness, then you might listen to him and say "wow what a smart, almost white, individual"
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 Irrespective of his skin color or genetic make up, I believe Obama to have about average intelligence. Which is a good thing because that means 50% of the population has a higher intelligence than he on average.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts youve got to be kidding... bush was average american intelligence... obama was a miracle
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 I agree Bush has an average intelligence. Which was a bad thing because that means 50% of the population has a lower intelligence than Bush. I think this is what predicates the notion that Obama is an intellectual miracle. Which is of course an error. The 2 of them could bounce around like 2 peas in a can and you couldn't distinguish the difference betwen them. Other than by color of skin - lol.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts
Obama earned his way into Occidental and then Columbia; he was not a legacy and did not have politically connected parents. He then did well enough among his very bright peers to be admitted into Harvard Law School. People who have average intelligence do not graduate from Columbia no matter what their skin color. And a law student with average intelligence even among other law students (which will be higher than that of the population at large) will not get into Harvard Law.
ihaveadesk1 1 year ago
@ihaveadesk1 CIA connections always help.
southpaw1000 1 year ago
Continued: Consider this: all of Jeses' apostles except John died ugly, brutal deaths because they refused to denounce Jesus and deny that he was raised from the dead. Now, I ask you, are you aware of anybody in history who submitted to torture and death in support of any concept they believed to be a lie? What are the chances that ALL 10 REMAINING APOSTLES would go down for Jesus knowing the whole risen thing was a grand hoax?
gdhfetalmd 1 year ago
Penn, dude, you got this all wrong. Let's work on a logic chain: 1. If I believe and there IS a God, I score - everlasting salvation baby! I get to live it up for all time in the coolest place in the universe. 2. If I believe and there ISN'T a God, no harm, no foul. I lived a good life. Here is the kicker, if I don't believe and there IS a God, I'm screwed! Forever hanging out in the firey furnace where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:50)!
gdhfetalmd 1 year ago
Penn,
gdhfetalmd 1 year ago
"Epsicopalogical Hedonism." I love it! Penn, will your wonders never cease?
MrHongKongBuffet 1 year ago
I hope Penn takes his own advice and does not exerciser FAITH in abiogenesis and a promordial soup.
Remember Penn. only believe in things that have empirical proof or you are a hypocrite
toobsucker 1 year ago
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peepdust 1 year ago
And you will see the King of Glory coming on clouds with Fire to bring judgement, and even those who pierced Him will mourn, and you will mourn and cry out to the mountains to fall on you as to hide you from the FACE of the One who sits on the Throne, His name is above all names, His name is JESUS CHRIST the Holy One of GOD...
SpcMedia21 1 year ago
@SpcMedia21 And monkeys will fly out of your butt, and you will no longer be a complete tool and there will be world peace and, and ,and ... PLEASE!!
finerbiner 1 year ago
Faith, like the faith Atheists have when they "know" there is no god. People claim they know the universe personally way too often. If you're going to go by facts, Agnosticism is the way to go: admitting that you can't prove either side. Instead of trusting there isn't, you accept eternal uncertainty. Once life is made from all nonliving material, rocks, moisture, electricity, whatever- THEN you will have proven at least part of the nonexistence of god and Atheists would have less faith.
kingofphools 1 year ago
@kingofphools You have just described an atheist. No atheist states there is no god, we're just waiting for the evidence which we KNOW, through the mere lack of it, does not yet exist. Welcome to the fold of the faithless!
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts I did not describe an Atheist; I very much so described an agnostic. Atheists believe there is no god, agnostics admit uncertainty. That is, by definition, the difference.
Atheism: the active disbelief in God.
Agnostic: one who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
The next part was personal opinion, I'd put faith in there being no God (become an Atheist) if people learn how to make living material from nonliving material. I know that is an Atheist.
kingofphools 1 year ago
@kingofphools Disbelief requires no faith or action. At the very last level of serious logical inquiry, all we end up with is uncertainty. Can't prove a negative and all that stuff..........
If you are uncertain there is a god, you're an atheist, me friend. Agnosticism (Huxley) is just a novel 19th century polite society term for atheist.
But I don't split hairs or quibble much over little terms. Peace out!
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts
There are two common definitions of atheism: the original definition which was the rejection of belief in god(s) and the more modern one which is the lack of belief in god(s). The first one is the more common ones for mainstream US society (and typically listed first in the dictionary), and the second one is more favored by atheists themselves. Agnosticism is not a modern invention, only the term is. "Agnosticism" by Robert Flint gives some historical background.
ihaveadesk1 1 year ago
@ihaveadesk1 If one has a LACK of a belief in a god(s) then one REJECTS the notion of a god(s). If one REJECTS the notion of a god(s) then one obviously LACKS the belief in god(s). Theres no distinction here whatsoever. Just semantics. If you'll reread my post you'll discover I never stated "agnosticism" was a novel concept, but I stand by the fact it is rather a novel TERM coined by Huxley.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts
You can be unsure like an agnostic, without accepting or rejecting the existence of god(s), which contrasts with explicit atheism. There is a significant distinction between what is now called implicit atheism and explicit atheism.
When the term atheism was originating, it was usually used to mean that one explicitly rejected a certain god (which the speaker regarded as true) in favor of worshiping another god (which the speaker regarded as a false god).
ihaveadesk1 1 year ago
@ihaveadesk1 Either you believe in a god or you don't. Since the god concept is an unfalsifiable hypothesis one can never really know there is no god. Much like a believer can never really know there is one. I'm an atheist, agnostic, whatever, but I surely do not believe in the god(s) because there is a complete lack of evidence for it's existence. I believe there is a very, very slim CHANCE of a god, or flying fairies, etc., but that is a far as anyone can logically go.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
I disagree with Penn that faith is the line. I think faith is OK. The line should be drawn at the point where it is anything more than personal. Faith should be treated like exercise. Exercise is good for the body(your own).You exercising will never help me and you have zero right to tell me to exercise. Faith is the same in that it can be productive for the individual but needs to stay there. The minute you think"what's good for me must be good for you", a line has been crossed.
finerbiner 1 year ago
@finerbiner Thats like trying to say a pure free market works. Its subject to human nature, and we're pretty bad in regards to religion and keeping it to ourselves. Best not to have it at all since the potential for it to get out of control is pretty high. People believing in things that are lies/wrong is detrimental to society. Just look at scientology for example.
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@finerbiner Heres another way of looking at it. Would you remove a benign tumor or let it sit and hope it does not turn malignant? Would you ignore a man who's math is ass backwards and claims 3+4=12 or wait until he teaches his kids that and hope for the best?
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu So if we go with your theory, who decides? The constitution says the govt shall not establish or prohibit the practice of religion. Your opinion of this would change 180 degrees if an issue close to your heart was being discussed.
What I always find most amazing is that your perception that you are right emboldens you to the point where you are willing to throw out the constitution to get your way. what this shows is that you are no different than the religious zealot.
finerbiner 1 year ago
@finerbiner Science, statistics, and human nature decides. How am I not right in the idea that people living with beliefs equivalent to the dark ages and are misinformed to the point where they can be taken advantage of is immoral and dangerous to society as well as our species in general? The government isn't perfect, the constitution has flaws (IE: The kkk allowed to promote hatred and violence) and living with falsehoods does nothing but hide the truth.
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu Everyone MUST live by your sense of right and wrong? That is exactly hoe the Taliban feels. They are right, therefore any difference of opinion only shows how wrong you are. Sorry, I don't want to live in that world. be careful when you think you have the right to act as referee of morals. People who you completely disagree with think the same. Sometimes they will have the power and you will be subject to it.
finerbiner 1 year ago