Calvinism/Doctrines of Grace/Reformed Theology are from the pit of Hell...they are heresies that make God Almighty a sinner and not just a sinner but the Author of ALL sin.
Every child raped....every women beaten...every person murdered...every deceitful business deal...every cruelty man has done, was authored by God. It is a blasphemous false religion and many otherwise fine Bible teachers are promoting it today. MacArthur, Sproul, Piper, are some of them. Flee and Repent of Calvinism!!
@highlyfavoredone2 and those who believe OSAS have no understanding of WHAT their inheritance is and how the Jews stand as our warning for how they failed to inherit. Read Hebrews and 1 Corinthians
.. than the first ! 1 john 2 4-7 he who says "I know him" yet disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps his word , in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: he who says he abides in him aught to walk in the same way in which he walked." This is the problem with "smorgasbord" bible interpretation! Taking one line from one letter and one line from another, DOES ANYONE READ ANY OTHER DOCUMENTS IN THIS WAY?
@tiredoldcrow The Bible speaks both of predestination and free will. Its not that the authors are confused, but rather that they were together. I recommend a book called Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God by J.I. Packer
Those who do not believe in the eternal security of the saints are actually proving their distrust of Jesus Christ who said: "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one." (Joh 10:29-30). Distrust is nothing but unbelief which is the very thing that damns one to hell. Jesus said: "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin,: Of sin, because they believe not on me; (Joh 16:7-9)
@lessingtom have aread through Ezekiel 18. Where do you get this idea of a lack of trust in Jesus. Does He not require our obedience and faithful service? Nobody snatching us out of Jesus's hands? Our freewill choices can lead to our own destruction, agree?
@Mirewood that would propably be an evidence of false convert,one who didnt know the Lord really.I cant say for sure only God knows but 1 John 2:19 says that it may be that that person wasnt saved,and that he yet has to really get saved.There is hope for salvation while we are here and while we want to repent and trust in Jesus Christ and his finished work on the cross.
@oblahblahsux My friend, how I agree with you. It is madness how human beings can feast on God's precious promises one minute and then vomit them out the next. Dont listen to the voices if men. Listen to God. He is true and cannot lie. Be assured that all that call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ shall be saved (Romans 10:13) the moment they do so. Praise God!
@brianhyde63 don't take 1 verse out of context and make it salvation. You need to harmonize the scriptures and it says everywhere that one can lose their salvation after being saved. It is conditional. To presume the grace of God as a license to sin is a lie from hell. God commands us to be holy and blameless before Him and to endure to the end.
@34craigjan In that you are wrong. There are literally sconres of scripture which support that our salvation is seccure in Jesus Christ. Its just that you either dont know them or you dont believe God's promises. And who said anything about license to sin except you? I could equally argue that those who believe in conditional salvation advocate sinning and repentance, sinning and repentance sinning and repantance...... so whats the differnce? Check your facts before you attack and slander
@brianhyde63 are you saying that once saved you're guarenteed salvation even if you turn to wickedness and forsake the Lord? All the scripture I posted refutes OSAS. Have you read the book of 1 John? "Sinning and repentance"? The mindset of a christian shouldn't be to sin and repent means to turn from sin. If someone repents daily, there not repenting but just trampling the blood of Jesus underfoot.
Jesus said: "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one." (Joh 10:29-30). Are you greater than God? If so, there is at least one person in the entire universe who is greater than God. It's called "YOU." Hence, no one can be ever be certain of their salvation.
@34craigjan Your questions show an alarming ignorance of scripture. Did you watch the video or not? It is crystal clear: If you are born again by the Holy Spirit you have been made a NEW CREATURE, old things (a life of sin) have passed away. Essentially you are alleging that the miracle of the new birth is worthless, the Holy Spirit is impotent, and God's is incapable of keeping us from falling. Thats a gross denial of scripture. So, what is the alternative? Simply this; salvation by works.
@brianhyde63 I do not agree with being made new.Your nature doesnt determine your salvation.Your faith does does verses in corinthians say that God sees you as a new creature.You are still in the flesh.I believe in eternal security tho.Its impossible to lose salvation.
@UrosSrbin1 A-1 agree, but only in part, because 1. salvation is predicated on a new birth and 2 greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world. When we first genuinely believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, then in that moment we pass from condemnation and death to justification and life; being born-again of the Holy Spirit who then SEALS us for eternity for now we have become an adopted son or daughter of God with all the rights and privileges that go with that position,
@UrosSrbin1 A-2 Clearly, though we have a quickened spirit we have a sinful nature and our soul will be a battleground because the flesh and the spirit will be in perpetual conflict. But unlike when we were helpless sinners we now have all heaven at our disposal making sure that we will persevere. Where sin abounds grace doth much more abound (Rom 5:20) and the Spirit of God that began a good work in us will see to it that He completes what He has started (Phil 1:6).
@UrosSrbin1 A-3 This is where our confidence plays an important role otherwise we will have no peace or assurance. As regenerate Christians we know that in us there dwells no good thing and we are often be greatly distressed because of it (Rom 7) but we also recognise that it is Christ's work to keep us for we can do nothing of ourselves (Jn 15:1-14) -- it is all of Christ. As many as are led by the Spirit it is evidence that they are the sons of God (Rom 8:14) -- if not they need the rebirth.
@brianhyde63 There dwells in us no good thing? where did you get that crap ? is it not now christ now dwelling in us? as paul said ? the mistake the "eternal security" doctriners is making is this. you are Saved by grace , you are saved from the perilous waters by the life ring of christ .THEN WHAT? you continue to live your life right ?in christ or satan? 1 cor 15 Now I would remind you, bretheren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel ,..... By which you were saved , IF YOU HOLD FAST!!!
@1allstarman You sir need to watch not only your language but what you are calling "crap".
"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) DWELLS NO GOOD THING: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not Romans 7
To as many as he FOREKNEW them he did predestinate, he knew all who would beliee in him before this world was made, he would be stupid to halfway or 3/4 way predestinate you if he already did it and knew it before we were even born, No one can even believe in Jesus unless the father draws them to, its his doing ot ours, so it also will be his doing in keeping us forever, if he says i will not lose one or any,do you think you can outdo God and say yes he will lose one.just because you says so.
now in Hebrews 6:4-6 i don't see were the blood of Jesus Christ is when John 6:53-54 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day now we see here that if a true believer could lose God Holy Spirit Jesus Christ Salvation then Jesus would of blow it in John 6:53-54 but Jesus did not blow it
in Hebrews 6:4-6 says For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. right now i have read this verse over and over now were in this verse dose it speak about the blood of Jesus
2 Timothy 4:18 and palms 32:7 says this And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.Thou art my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble; thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah Ok if we can lose God Holy Spirit Jesus Christ Salvation then God Holy Spirit Jesus Christ would then leave us and not ever help us out in Trouble and we can never have Deliverance for all sin
i would like to see were it says in the BIBLE this said Then if you don’t overcome sin and you don’t endure to the end you can be blotted out of the Lamb’s book of life. were dose that say in the BIBLE that Then if you don’t overcome sin and you don’t endure to the end you can be blotted out of the Lamb’s book of life. i want Scripture for this said Then if you don’t overcome sin and you don’t endure to the end you can be blotted out of the Lamb’s book of life.
well said Dough Eaton preach the truth i got so much out of this and i strongly believe that a true believer born again Christian can never be lost and never lose God Holy Spirit Jesus Christ Salvation plus what u said Brother Dough Eaton when u said about those who teach that u can lose your Salvation and u said they are brother's and sister's in Christ i don't believe that why is i was kicked out of church because i believe u cannot lose God Holy Spirit Jesus Christ Salvation
the verse I sent was talking of a person escaping the pollutions of the world ( sin ) thru knowldge of Christ by becoming a christain then turn around and get tangled in the world again and it said it was better for a person not to have known the truth . why because now the satan will take a stronger hold to keep you and some people dont come back to God and I know a few people who still havent .
yes we are kept saved by our works for faith without works is dead being along James 2 v 20 and 24 and we'll be judged by our works 2 cor. 5 v 10 . for we are commanded to do them if we love christ John 14 v 15 and Luke 6v46 and matthew 28v20 . we abuse our liberty in Christ daily if thats the way you want to phrase it by sinning thats why 1 john 1v 9 exists and the versuses i stated have nothing to do with the abusing of our liberty in Christ the way you stated it .
@MrUrosSrb Where does the bible say anyone is automatically saved despite how we live? You are deceived. You need to read your bible friend. Read Ezekiel 18, Romans 6, 8, 11, 1 Tim 4, 2 Tim 4, 2 Pet 2, Hebrews 6 & 10, John 15:1, and the book of 1st John.
@34craigjan I am not saying that u should sin,im saying that the work on the cross completely covers that.There is no possibility of losing salvation,thats just impossible.
@MrUrosSrb did you read Hebrews 10:26-31?"For if we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there remains NO MORE sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgement and fervor of fire which is to consume the adversaries."By how much do you think he will be thought worthy of worse punishment who has trampled underfoot the Son of God."For we know Him who said, Vengeance is Mine, I will repay and the Lord will judge "His people".
@MrUrosSrb "I am the true vine. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes it away. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If one does not abide in Me he is cast out as a branch and is dried up and are cast into the fire.(John 15:1-6).
Paul says: "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." (2 Co 5:17). Can a new creation become an old one again? If so, then Christ's construction of the new creation is shaky and unreliable. The phrase "in Me" in John 15 does not mean the same thing as "in Christ." Here it is part of the metaphor of the Vine and means "every person who professes to be My disciple is not necessarily a true follow." Remember Judas?
@lessingtom ah, Jesus was very clear in John 15 saying "whoever" does not abide in Me will be like the branch that does not bear fruit and is to be cut down and thrown in the fire. A person MUST remain in Him to be saved and endure to the end.
@MrUrosSrb "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he shall abound; but from him who does not have, even that which he has shall be taken away from him. And cast out the useless servant into outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and knashing of teeth."(Matt 25:14-30) Jesus is speaking of the talents he gives us in this passage.
The fact that the worthless servant did not want to deposit the talent he was given in a bank where it would be recorded that it belonged to his Master, proves that he had no faith in his Master. He was not saved and therefore could not have lost his salvation.
@MrUrosSrb "Rightly said: they(Jews) were broken of because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you. Behold then the kindness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but on you, the kindness of God, IF you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off." (Romans 11:20-22)Do you see the condition of His forgiveness?
Israel did not "continue in God's kindness" and was cut off. Had they been irretrievably lost some of them would never have been able to be grafted in again. To me this sounds that they lost their salvation because of their unbelief but would again be grafted in through faith. Does this refute Hebrews 6: 1-8? The Jews held Him up to contempt and trampled underfoot his blood but many of them will be grafted in again through faith. What is to be? OSAS or OLAL?
@lessingtom if you read through Romans 11, He warns us that "if" we don't continue in His goodness, we also will be cut off. That statement is conditional upon us abiding in Him. It doesn't mean once we are that we can't be grafted in again as it states however.
The Olive Tree is not Jesus Christ. Romans 11:12 says "Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?" (Rom 11:12). The Jews' cutting off from the Olive Tree benefited the entire Gentile world. Does that mean that every single Gentile was grafted into Jesus when the Jews were cut off. If that were so it would mean that every single Gentile was/is/will be saved. That's preposterous.
To what degree must you continue in his goodness to remain saved? - 99.95%. 99.99% or 100%. I am sure you would agree that no one is capable of continuing in his goodness 100%. So any dissenter can be cut of and grafted in again and again and again ad infinitum. At what stage does God say "Ichabod?" Stop relying on yourself to remain faithful to Jesus Christ. "Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall." When you think you stand your fall is near.
@MrUrosSrb "And yet have fallen away, to renew themselves again unto repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God and putting Him to open shame. For the earth, which drinks the rain which often comes upon it and produces vegetation suitable to those for whose sake also it is cultivated, partakes of blessing from God. But if it brings forth thorns and thistles, it is disapproved and near a curse, whose end is to be burned.(Hebrews 6:1-8)
@MrUrosSrb "For if having escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ but having again been entangled in these, they are defeated, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than, knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. Like the dog turning to his own vomit and the washed sow wallowing in the mud."(2 Pet 2:17-22)
2 Peter 2:17-22 should be read in tandem with Romans 1:18, 19: "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them." They are false teachers who know the truth but suppress it to lead further astray the unsuspecting professing Christians.
@lessingtom Faith is the only thing needed for salvation.You cant add to what Christ finished on the cross.When was dying on the cross,he said: 'IT IS FINISHED'.Finished means finished,there is no adding to what Christ did.Simply believe he is the son of God,that he died for sin,and resurrected 3 days later.Simple as that.Thats the gospel message.
@MrUrosSrb And the wonderful part about all of that is faith is a gift from God so there is absolutely no room left for us to boast ourselves and our ability.
@LaneCh What do you say to those who bring up "departing from the faith" or "falling away"? I believe in eternal security but I'm trying to explain it to someone who believes you can loose salvation. Some of the verses used are Heb 3:7-19, 1 Timothy 4:1, and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. Any advice, further videos or articles would be of help thanks.
The only eternal security a Christian has is if he abides in Christ!
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
If you are in the book of life you can be blotted out. Is your name in the book of life? Then if you don’t overcome sin and you don’t endure to the end you can be blotted out of the Lamb’s book of life.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
yes you can loose your salvation . its in the Bible read rev 2v10 it says remainful faithful unto death ! if im unfaithful then guess where i go . i proved it in 30 seconds by the time i typed it . read 2 peter 2 v. 20 thru 23 .
@firefighter40ish If what you're saying is true, then we are "kept saved" by our works. The verse you quoted is to remind us not to abuse our liberty in Christ, by thinking we can give place to the flesh. Paul, the apostle addressed this.
God who is all knowing and all seeing and knew us from before the foundation of the world, sees our entire life from cradle to grave ...so when we call upon the Name of the Lord {Acts 2:21 & Romans 10:13} and truly confess Christ and believe God has raised Jesus from the dead we are "Saved" and turn from self to God he saves us just like he did the criminal on the cross, knowing our whole lives at the time we are saved. God does not make mistakes, nor casts out who comes to him ..John 6:37.
If a Christian is in bed with a whore committing adultery, and during the very act of intercourse a stray bullet from the gun of a drive-by shooter strikes him in the head and kills him instantly, will he go to heaven or hell?
If a Christian "forgive not every one his brother their trespasses" will he go to heaven or hell?
If a Christian "shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost" will he go to heaven or hell?
i am a son, and the lord came to save first and condem the wicked. man always likes to take pride in their assurance because thet think they are right before God , the truth is; it is christs life that saves us and God is pleased with his work and our good works do not keep us but proves our position IN Christ. Persaverance is our sanctification along with learning His word. If you would like to read my testimony where the devil tried to make me apostate check my youtube site and click on link
You can become unfaithful servant who will be thrown into lake of fire-
2. In revelation But the cowardly, the unfaithful, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their part is in lake of fire.
@Hunter8074 , there is a such thing as departing from the faith after genuinely being saved. If anyone dies in their sin without having repented, they will NOT see God. Christ saves from sin, not in sin. Read Ezekiel 18 or Matt 7:21-29. Hebrews 12:14 says"without holiness NO man shall see the Lord" Jesus said you MUST persavere until the end to be saved (Matt 24)
5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
ALL OF THESE THINGS A TRUE BELIEVER CAN START DOING!!!!! DON"T BE DECEIVED!!!
@imwhoim100 John6:37-40,Notice Jesus says I loose no one,Philippians1:6.God will NOT finish his work in you he started? Romans5:1-2,Justified.Colo1:14,Colo1:20.Romans8:1,,14-17,,,38-39.John 19:30.It is finished.Ephesians1:13,Till when,Ephesians4:30.Ephesians1:7,1 John1:7-10.Looks like Jesus did it all on the Cross.
Salvation is by grace through faith plus nothing else.
If one is not saved once and for all, then one was and is not saved at all.
Now to him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
@kingdomChristian- Jesus said he would HE would finish the good work in you HE started, HE started , none of us came to christ without his father drawing us to, his father drew us to, and ALL of the father giveth to me i shall lose NONE , HE said I WILL not lose NONE , so Jesus is a liar hey, again I will not lose ANY I not you or me he saisd I will not lose any of ALL the fathe giveth to me. once we believe its on him to keep us not on us, we can lose fellowship and rewards not salvation..
@kingdomChristian- Jesus said he would HE would finish the good work in you HE started, HE started , none of us came to christ without his father drawing us to, his father drew us to, and ALL of the father giveth to me i shall lose NONE , HE said I WILL not lose NONE , so Jesus is a liar hey, again I will not lose ANY I not you or me he saisd I will not lsoe any of ALL the fathe giveth to me. once we believe its on him to keep us not on us, we can lose fellowship and rewards not salvation..
@kingdomChristian- Jesus said he would HE would finish the good work in you HE started, HE started , none of us came to christ without his father drawing us to, his father drew us to, and ALL of the father giveth to me i shall lose NONE , HE said I WILL not lose NONE , so Jesus is a liar hey, again I will not lose ANY I not you or me he saisd I will not lsoe any of ALL the fathe giveth to me. once we believe its on him to keep us not on us, we can lose fellowship and rewards not salvation.
as many as he foreknew them he did predestinate , you cannot be half presdestinated or 3/4 . God knew ALL who would believe on his son Jesus before the world began, anyone who accepts Jesus was predestinated period, and romans 8-28 says NOTHING past or future will separate us from his Love, also Romans 8-38,39 God works ALL things for Good for those who Love the Lord, and if he loses any , that is not working it for thier Good period...we can lose rewards and fellowship but not salvation.
Ok lets see now, Jesus said no man cometh unto me unless my father which sent me draws him, so none of us could even believe Jesus is the only way unless the father drwew us to, that is his doing right not ours, now Jesus follows that up with and " ALL " that the father giveth to me i shall not lose " ANY" Jesus said ALL not some or maybe a few or one, he said i will not lose ANY. and Jesus is the one who started the good work in us and said he will finish it ..HEBREWS 6:18 God cannot Lie
@Ohreallynow100 TRUE: We are drawn to Christ. Jesus said if He be lifted up He would do that and He does. TRUE: Jesus will not LOSE any that the Father gives Him. TRUE: Jesus is faithful to complete the work he began in us. TRUE: God cannot and does not lie. But none of these statements negates the fact that we must believe continually (not just one-off easy-believism!), hold fast til the end, overcome the world by our faith and the blood of Christ, purify our hearts, and many others "DO's".
@KingdomChristian - well you have to be calling Jesus a liar then, he said he would not lose any, and as far as believing continually, that also is his doing, seeing as he said i will finish the good work i started in you, it also says as soon as we believe we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise for Security and Preservation, a stamp of ownership that we are his forever...we are to do things but all we do is also his doing , not ours...apart from me you can do nothing Jesus said,
@Ohreallynow100 Scripture is QUITE clear...it is GOD who saves us by atoning blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. We were without hope and of no power to save ourselves, fully doomed. Yet, God also clearly expects US to do certain things to prove our faith such that it is more than mere lip service. There are clearly "conditions" attached to our salvation which must be met by us. The preaching of an unconditional eternal security gained merely in professing a "belief" in Christ is null and void.
"Once saved always saved" is a lazy man doctrine and is false. A person can be saved from their sins and then turn from God (Hebrews 6:4-6; Hebrews 10:26-29; 2 Peter 2:2-22).
@ChristopherMillz So then you must believe that committing even 1 sin negates the work of the cross? And if you lose your salvation each and every time that you sin (either knowingly or unknowingly), then you have to keep confessing your sins without ceasing and re-gaining your salvation many times throughout the day. Is that right? Because YOU, ChristopherMilz, sin MANY times throughout the day. And should you die the instant after your next one, do you believe Jesus will forsake you?
@Tobytuber No, not necessarily. I believe God is more fair, merciful and forgiving than that. Maintaining a repentant heart and forsaking sin is an important factor to maintaining salvation though. There is a difference between someone who has been saved from their sins and is trying to follow Christ but may mess up every now and then compared to someone who was on that same path but failed to stay on it and strayed away from Christ... or saying it is ok to sin because one is "saved".
@ChristopherMillz Good answer. However, I do not believe the proponents of OSAS believe it is a license to sin as some that have problems with it have put it. If someone has truly been saved they will grieve whenever they do sin, confess and ask for forgiveness. Those people cannot lose their salvation. On the other hand, we all know people who consider themselves Christians, but you never see the fruit. You never hear the Lord on their lips. These are the ones that were never truly saved.
@Tobytuber Very few would ever readily admit to it, you are correct. However, the net result is still the same...OSAS is used by the heart of man to create just that...a license to sin. I know because I did precisely that for more than 10 years. The heart is truly deceitful and given half a chance, we will take any false doctrine that comforts us IN our sin and allows us to THINK we are saved while we remain fully enjoying all the "benefits" of our sinful actions. OSAS is DEADLY....PERIOD.
@Tobytuber The simple fact is that you cannot honestly ignore all the warnings of scripture given to help us AVOID deceiving ourselves and against remaining in our sinful ways. I have not done a count, but I suspect the New Testament would be noticeably smaller if all the warnings to "hold fast", "endure to the end", "guard your hearts", "purify yourselves", "overcome", and the like were removed.
@ChristopherMillz I agree with all that you say here and this is why GOD is the ultimate righteous judge of the universe, yet we are still admonished to "know" them by their fruit and to remove those from our fellowship who are living in open sin. One other little point is that we need to be careful about calling sin "a mistake" or "mess up". While sin certainly IS a mistake, this terminology injects a wrong view of sin that tends to enable us to subconsciously discount its deadly effects on us.
@Tobytuber One sin has the power to bring spiritual death apart from the forgiveness through the atonement of Christ...that is a scriptural fact (Ezek 18:20). Defenders of OSAS use the "one sin" strawman argument all the time. Sin is SIN...there is no specified number of commissions that we are "allowed" before a death sentence is incurred. God is merciful, longsuffering, and patient, but it is well within His right to impose the death penalty for even ONE sin, should He so choose.
@Tobytuber It is spiritually dangerous for us to begin playing a guessing game with God's judgment, trying to estimate when God is going to impose a lawful death sentence upon his children who continue to put Him to the test. In God's mercy, I think it is clear that He most often strives with us at length (for me, over 10 years!) to bring us back to repentance and in compliance with His laws, but again, it is HIS prerogative to say when enough is enough and make righteous judgment.
@Tobytuber For you to make this statement: "Because YOU, ChristopherMilz, sin MANY times throughout the day." Is a very presumptuous accusation on its face and I think quite worthy of an apology to ChristopherMilz, unless he has previously admitted to such. Did you perhaps make such a statement based on your own personal experience? If so, then you must examine whether you truly be in the faith or not and repent if necessary as instructed in a multitude of scriptures. 2 Cor 13:15-Acts 17:30-31
@KingdomChristian Presumptuous accusation? Not at all, just merely stating a fact. Unless he suddenly developed the ability to walk on water, Christopher is no different than you and I. For all intents and purposes, each and everyone of us sin every day. Sometimes by willful disobedience and active commission, sometimes by omission, and sometimes without even realizing that we have. And yes, that goes for you too Mr. KingdomChristian. Until we are perfected.
Jesus said no man cometh unto me unless my father who sent me draws him, meaning we cannot even believe in Jesus unless God the father draws us to, then he says and ALL the father giveth to me i will not Lose ANY ...add to this none of us can be half predestinated . God forknew all who would accept his sons sacrifice.
Paul also said being condfident of this one thing, that HE which began a good work in you shall finish it, the word HE not you nor i will finish it....
@Ohreallynow100 Your monergistic slant fails to account for the MULTITUDE of other scriptures that admonish US to do our part in turning to God and remaining/abiding in Him...clearly showing a decidedly synergistic reality in scripture. You cannot safely use solely a "proof-text" approach to exegesis and hermeneutics and expect to come away with the whole counsel of God.
@Terry8150 You are clearly complicating these very simple scriptures. There are only two places we can go after this is all said and done. We are either in the first resurrection or the 2nd resurrection (2nd death or Lake of Fire). That's it... If we overcome, we go to the first resurrection and the works we did for the kingdom are tried by fire. If they survive, we will be "of honor", if not, then "of dishonor". If we do NOT overcome, we are in the 2nd resurrection, LAKE OF FIRE.
@Terry8150 This is the single most ludicrous and unbiblical statement you have made thus far, that men can be saved, yet walk in sin. And all your arguments for this are that supposedly believers who sin will lose "rewards or crowns". Based on WHAT SCRIPTURE? Did you not read all the scriptures in Revelation that show what the rewards are for those who OVERCOME? You either overcome SIN, or you do NOT...you either get INTO the kingdom...or you do NOT. There is no special place for halfway.
@Terry8150 John says he wrote those things so that we would NOT SIN, that was the objective! THAT was the "issue"....NOT ACTIVELY SINNING.... John wanted us and commanded us to CEASE IT, just as Christ Himself said TWICE! Otherwise, worse things will happen to us! What can be worse than the ORIGINAL penalty for sin which is the lake of fire?? The commandments of Christ are not HOLY SUGGESTIONS...they are COMMANDS.
God has kept me in Christ every since I put my trust in him. I'm sorry I have little confidence in the flesh but I know I am kept by his Holy Spirit. I will leave it at that!
@NotFlaking Provided you meet the conditions for continuing in the faith and enduring to the end, I have NO DOUBT that Christ will do His part to keep you according to His promises. But don't ignore the equally sound admonishments in scripture to take heed, lest ye fall, to keep yourself from idols, and the many other clear warnings given to us. If it were not possible for us to fall away AFTER becoming a true believer, the plethora of warnings to the contrary would be pointless.
@7olusegun Do you know what a backslider is? It is NOT a person who merely falls into temptation of sin for a time by failing to walk in the Spirit. A backslider is someone who has wholly REJECTED GOD and no longer has any fear of Him. For this person, it is game OVER, unless the Lord chooses to attempt further conviction efforts. But the believer who falls into temptation in their walk, but who has not rejected Christ altogether, they must repent, otherwise they WILL BECOME a backslider.
@7olusegun This is where hermeneutics comes into play. Your assertion about multiple repentance is refuted by several scriptures and the direct words of CHRIST. See Rev 2:5, 2:16, 2:22, 3:3, 3:19, Luke 17:4. As I said before, I'm sure there is a limit to the mercy of God for repentance, lest there be a license to endlessly sin, but only GOD knows the heart and the time of our departure from this earth and THAT is why we are to utterly put sin to death by the Spirit and overcome the world.
@KingdomChristian Again, there is no license to to endlessly sin because of grace. We are not to sin that grace may abound. In that statement is the thought of the believers judgment. But, the judgment has to do with our works that are judged "bad." The word "bad" means wicked, worthless. This involves even the thoughts and intents of the heart. This is where the point concerning loss is to be focused. There are dire consequences for unfaithfulness. But, we "shall be saved." 1Cor.3:15
@Terry8150 But the point remains...SIN separates us from SALVATION unless we repent. If we do NOT repent, then eventually sin brings forth it's fruit unto death. God told Adam and Eve, in the DAY they would eat of the tree,, they would surely die. They obviously did not die physically, so the result was SPIRITUAL death. This rule still applies today. Disobedience brings spiritual death BY WAY OF relational separation from God our Father. For LIFE ITSELF is being IN HIM.
@KingdomChristian For the believer, sin separates us from fellowship. And that does mean repentance is in the picture. Repentance is for the believer. The death is not of our relationship to God. Because that is by grace. The death is to inheriting "all things" as a SON. Win Adam sinned, death was spiritual and physical. But remember that God gave Adam a covering. That's a type of Christ. His death covers our sins. That's why as a believer He is the judge of the just. We will be judged.
@Terry8150 God does not WINK at SIN! His grace enables us to be FREE of the penalty of our PAST SIN and to henceforth CEASE FROM SIN. Anytime someone preaches that GRACE enables men to CONTINUE in their sin but retain eternal life that is ANOTHER GOSPEL!! This was not taught by ANYONE in the early church...it began with Augustine and was furthered by Calvin and the Reformation. This is HERESY and is refuted by the entire book of JUDE!
@Terry8150 YES, you are right! God made a "covering" of animal skins for Adam's sin and it was a "TYPE" of Christ until the REAL THING was to come. And when He DID come, what did John the Baptist say:
Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKETH AWAY the sin of the world. Jesus' sacrifice was a better sacrifice...a better covenant! He doesn't just COVER our sins, he WASHES US CLEAN and ENABLES US to CEASE FROM SIN by His Spirit!
@KingdomChristian Well, your getting there slowly but surely. That's the right word. "Enabled." And, the issue is walking in the Spirit. But, it is a fact that we also can walk in the flesh. This is by choice. But, it is a family thing and carries with it accountability for how we walk. Ultimately, it is inheriting all things that's on the line. Eph.5:5 We are to possess our possessions. Duet.2:31
@Terry8150 You like to speak in a condescending tone as if you have the preeminence over me in spite of the fact that you fail utterly to provide scripture for your assertions. Colossians 1:18 says that CHRIST is the head of the body, having the preeminence in ALL THINGS, not you. I have one master, Jesus Christ only. Speak as a brother and I will call you such. Speak as a blasphemer and I will rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ.
@KingdomChristian There is no condescending tone intended when I speak. I have never referred to you as part of cult teaching like you did about me. I am using the word to show what I have learned from my own studies. I have never blasphemed the Lord, the Spirit of grace, nor the word of God. Never.
@Terry8150 At least now you admit sin is a CHOICE. The problem is that you continue to defend these presumed "lesser effects" of sin on the believer, limiting them only to loss of rewards, crowns, inheritance. Yet, you fail to realize that our ENTIRE INHERITANCE is tied up in our overcoming the world (SATAN) by two things: 1. The blood of the Lamb 2. Our testimony. Now how do you propose a testimony steeped in sin will do ANYTHING to defeat Satan? No, such only shows FAILURE to overcome!
@KingdomChristian Sin is a choice for the believer. Satan is already defeated. But he seeks to destroy the believer. Overcoming the world by our testimony is what is rewarded. Do not take lightly what will be given to the faithful believer. That's exactly what Satan wants the believer to do.
@Terry8150 Yes, we are ENABLED....IMMEDIATELY by the power of the Holy Spirit...the very MOMENT we believe in Christ. We are commanded to go and sin NO MORE...not to "ease" our way out of sin, little by little as we become "comfortable". We're commanded to BE Holy...not to BECOME Holy! It's time God's people started DOING what God commands instead of toeing the water to see if we like it or not. It's time we STOPPED looking back from the plow!
@KingdomChristian Looking back from the plow has to do with kingdom teaching, which is to be applied to the walk of a believer. It is not about how to be saved or stay saved. Kingdom teaching is about entering into the joy of the Lord. Lots and lots of believers will not be doing that just because they are saved by grace.
@Terry8150 You say there is no license because you know that is an obvious problem, yet you refuse to see how your unscriptural belief system brings a license to sin into BEING. By telling people that a believer can SIN, yet not be in danger of losing HIS SOUL....only his "rewards." As I've further shown, the "REWARDS" are an all-inclusive PACKAGE only for those who OVERCOME SIN, putting it entirely to DEATH. Yet you insist that believers can go on sinning unscathed by the LOSS OF THEIR SOULS!
@KingdomChristian There is no license to sin period. It is not because this is a problem with what I am saying, to sneak in doctrinally something that is not true about grace that saves. Your getting to the hard things to understand now about the believer's walk. The soul is on the line. Since the issue about being born again is a spiritual issue, we now move unto the issue of the soul. That's a different ball game.
@Terry8150 Yes, it always falls back on "gnosis" doesn't it. Fortunately, for those who walk in obedience, the Holy Spirit to LEADS US into all truth, not by our intellect alone, but by His revelation. There is nothing "hard" about believing and obeying God, unless you love your sin and need to protect it with complex theological constructs. You have YET to prove ANY of your "hard things" by SCRIPTURE and you cannot. Please prove me wrong by scripture and I will retract my comments.
@KingdomChristian Your downplaying what is "hard" to understand in scripture.Peter had some problem with even what Paul was writing. 2 Peter 3:16Paul never teaches a child of God loses salvation as a family member.
But, Paul does teach about the walk of a believer, about reward, crowns, and inheritance in the family in the kingdom of Christ and of God.That is not a birth issue.As far as using scripture, my statements are supported by scripture. And they are consistent with truth about our walk.
@Terry8150 Peter had NO problem understanding Paul's words and after receiving the Holy Spirit again, neither do I. Peter affirms that we should equate the longsuffering and forbearance of Christ as SALVATION. Peter then says that some of Paul's writings are hard to understand, but that doesn't mean IMPOSSIBLE! He speaks of those who "are unlearned and unstable" who WREST his writings as they do the OTHER scriptures. Once again, YOU are wresting the very words of PETER to and prove your points!
@KingdomChristian Peter is speaking about what the Lord gave Paul to preach and teach. The height of wrestling with the scripture is teaching against the grace of God that saves by adding works to the message of the gospel.
@Terry8150 What is so "hard to understand" about the SOUL that SINNETH, it shall DIE? The ballgame is OVER if you die in your sins. Being born again IS a spiritual issue, but in order to be TRUE and not FEIGNED, your rebirth must produce FRUIT of the Spirit and works of righteousness by FAITH. Spiritual rebirth must give evidence of same in the natural. Your theology QUITE FALSELY asserts that spiritual rebirth "covers" the ongoing sins in the body as being "under grace." THIS is SIN LICENSE!
@KingdomChristian Salvation is a spiritual rebirth.The fact we are still living in the flesh means we can be controlled by the flesh or sin.That's why we are to put sin to death.The salvation of the soul is to be applied to our walk and is called receiving the end of salvation by Peter.This is the result of putting sin to death in the flesh. But the spirit is saved and this is by grace.The believer is still held accountable for how we walk, which is to be judged. This pertains to inheritance.
@Terry8150 The believers are supposed to walk like they truly BELIEVE and be an EXAMPLE to the UNbelievers in obedience to the gospel. Your brand of theology exposes the very reason so many "Christians" are living in DEFEAT against SIN. They simply see no reason to RESIST the devil since they have so-called "grace" which assures them of their "position" in the kingdom while they are "practicing" FILTH worthy of eternal damnation! Those in disobedience don't HAVE the Spirit and no power to STOP!
@KingdomChristian Grace assures a person is saved from an eternity in hell. Position in the kingdom is at issue. The sinning saint cannot expect to enter the kingdom age because they are saved by grace. And the sinning saint cannot expect to know what it means to inherit all things. And, the sinning saint will not be able to call New Jerusalem home. The sinning saint in disobedience has the Spirit , but grieves, quenches, or does despite unto the Spirit of grace.
@Terry8150 And you forget two things with your "bad = wicked" analogy. BAD WORKS are the fruit of BAD TREES....WICKED TREES. Such trees are CUT DOWN and BURNED. And we know where the wicked end up, not having their names written in the Lamb's book of Life....with Satan, the beast, false prophet, death and hell....the Lake of Fire! Absolutely AMAZING that you continue to defend SIN and deny the penalty FOR sin. I surely hope no one believes your words unto their eternal damnation.
@KingdomChristian Never, never defend sin. That's your attempt to deceive others concerning what I am saying. The judgment seat of Christ is not to figure out whose saved and who isn't. The works Paul talked about being bad included his own. The believer's walk is held accountable and could experience shame, pain, sorrow, tears, and loss of inherited rights, the rewards of an overcomer, and the things that pertain to eternity, but never being kicked out of the family.
@KingdomChristian It is a fact of scripture that the house of God is judged first. 1 Peter 4:17 It is a fact, that every knee and tongue shall confess to God. But, the believer gets judged first.
@Terry8150 Do you not see that the very verse you quote indicates your ERROR?
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Peter shows by his inspired words that those who "obey not the gospel of God" are NOT OF the house...it is obedience to the gospel that determines RELATIONSHIP IN THE FAMILY OF GOD.... Do you STILL not SEE? Your SIN separates you OUT of the house!
@KingdomChristian 1 Peter 4:17 is about judgment concerning the house of God.And judgment begins at us. Nothing there to hard to see.Obeying not the gospel has to do with the gospel.It is not to be applied to what is true about our walk as part of the house of God.Sin does not separate us from the house of God. Nothing separates us from the love of God. Nothing.The separation or distinctions come when we apply obedience to what will be true for those in the house of Christ. Two different things.
@Terry8150 This is in no way malicious on my part. I have no interest in deceiving anyone. This is about false doctrine being spread to the body of Christ. We are to contend for the faith delivered ONCE to the Saints. Your private interpretations do not line up with scripture in nearly every point. You have failed to give ANY valid scriptural basis for your false assertion that a sinning believer only suffers a "loss of rewards" when scripture clearly says otherwise. James 5:19-20, Ezek 18:20
@KingdomChristian Your calling my application of scripture a private thing. That's just another way to try and make others thing your right. I have shown many scriptures that show this discussion is about our walk. Your disrespect for reward, crowns, and inheritance yet to be given the believer shows you are stuck in the first principles.
@Terry8150 I don't disagree that "walk" is important, it is VERY important, but where you err is in the fact that you refuse to accept CLEAR scripture that defines what SIN IS...and what it DOES to the eternal soul. There is nothing in scripture or the Atonement of Christ which EVER altered the effects of SIN for believers over unbelievers. The effect is ALWAYS ETERNAL DEATH. To simply say that a one time belief in Christ nullifies that is dangerous and NOT biblical.
@Terry8150 God's grace and the Atonement of Christ are FULLY EFFICACIOUS for PAST SINS. His Holy Spirit empowers us to walk forward from THAT point to eradicate sin from our lives. We are not commanded just to DECREASE the amount of sin in our lives...we care commanded to CEASE and OVERCOME. There is NO PLACE in the kingdom for anyone who FAILS those commands. For ONLY overcomers will receive ANY of the stated blessings listed in Revelation. If you will note, they ALL pertain to the Kingdom.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
@Terry8150 We must overcome sin (the world) in order to receive ALL THINGS...including, but not limited to:
Eating of the tree of LIFE!
Avoiding harm from the Second Death (Lake of FIRE!)
The Morning Star...which is CHRIST HIMSELF!
He will be our God and we will be HIS SONS!
If you think for ONE SECOND that the entirety of our inheritance in the kingdom isn't tied up in OVERCOMING, then you are sadly mistaken. Those who fail to overcome suffer the loss of ALL THINGS, including ETERNAL LIFE.
@Terry8150 Perhaps you mean well, and I don't believe you would KNOWINGLY defend sin, that's not what I'm saying. But your theology DOES defend sin and unscripturally RECLASSIFIES SIN as a non-event to the believer in terms of SALVATION, and THAT is just not true! Christ's Atonement cleanses us from ALL PAST SIN, but our walk FORWARD in obedience BY THE SPIRIT'S POWER that enables us to be HOLY and CEASE from sin. Do you deny that we are commanded to be holy, perfect, and CEASE from sin?
@KingdomChristian My theology 100 % does not defend sin. Sin affects what the believer is yet to receive. We are to be holy in our walk and put sin to death. Never said otherwise. I'm showing that the believer's walk is accountable and sinning saints can't expect to get what the faithful saint receives just because they are saved by grace. and being saved by grace does not mean the sinning saint escapes punishment. But, we shall be saved. That's an unconditional promise of grace that saves.
@Terry8150 It defends sin to the extent that you no longer believe that SIN can literally RIP YOU OUT OF THE KINGDOM and send you STRAIGHT TO HELL. THAT is how it defends SIN, by making it "comfortable" to those who might then ALLOW SIN in their lives, thinking it only affects "rewards" and not their eternal destiny! Sinners take comfort in falsely believing they can SIN before God and get by with it. It is simply not true...SIN KILLS US...period! There is NO tolerable "loss" involved...
@Terry8150 This is why I have been very patient and longsuffering with you...refuting you with scriptures, hoping to turn your heart from this false teaching and also that no one else may read this and take comfort in their sin and end up going to HELL believing your false teachings. This is not "pride" for me, I have other things I could be doing, but this is important for YOU and for those who may be reading. I have no "following" to worry about... I care about YOU and OTHERS!
@Terry8150 Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
I lived for the last 10 years of my LIFE in sin, telling myself the EXACT same thing YOU are telling yourself and others. I comforted my guilty conscience by telling myself I was "under the blood" till I eventually even stopped even TRYING to quit sinning.
People that permanently fall away did not have saving faith what they had is a FALSE CONVERSION. Even saving faith to believe comes from God. We humans overrate ourselves and take too much credit!
@NotFlaking That's not true AT ALL. You cannot "fall away" from something you never had to being with. If this were not so, there would be no reason for the many explicit warnings of scripture against it. Salvation is precious...only a BELIEVER can "fall away". Do not allow a false teaching such as OSAS put you into a false sense of security and cause you to lose this precious gift! God will never forsake US, but WE can forsake HIM. See James 5:19-20
JESUS MEANT IT WHEN HE SAID HE WOULD NEVER LEAVE US OR FORSAKE US.
My dad was in and out of my life til the day he died. God is not life this.
He promised ETERNAL LIFE not eternal insecurity!
If people want to think God gave them the gift of salvation at 6pm but took it back by 7p then they repent and he gaveit back then they lose it again by 8p then get it back by 9p after repenting again this is crazy thinking to me!
@NotFlaking Jesus DID mean it when He said he would never forsake us or leave us, but it was CONDITIONAL. Other scriptures clearly show that He WILL deny us, IF we deny HIM. Matthew 10:32-33 are very clear. Be careful of trying to determine God's character in your mind apart from His written Word! You must interpret scripture with scripture. We should NOT be sinning, repenting, sinning, repenting, etc... We are supposed to be HOLY and live righteously by FAITH in the power of the Spirit!
@KingdomChristian Jesus will never leave us nor forsake us.Nothing separates from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Nothing. Denial is in relation to how we walk. Matt 10:32-33 takes place IN heaven. This is about discipleship not salvation. Mt. 10:38. Peter calls this "receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." 1 Peter 1:9 Doesn't say anything there about the spirit. Peter is referring to discipleship. See Matt.16:24-25 So does Jesus refer to disciplship.
@Terry8150 And a believer who SINS is an unsaved believer and technically an UNbeliever. If you truly BELIEVE, then why are you still sinning and condoning sin by your theology? You should be putting to DEATH the deeds of the body...not nursing them along using GODS GRACE as your excuse and by your speech, encouraging OTHERS to do so! This is EXACTLY what Jude speaks of...those who turn the grace of God into lasciviousness.
@KingdomChristian Here you go again, saying what is not true. Don't condone sin. Just showing what will happen to the believer who sins and who sins willfully. That is respect for the grace of God. We are not to sin that grace may abound. That's why the house of God is judged first. 1 Peter 4:17 God takes care of family business before the world is judged at the great white throne. Your doing your best to keep those who follow you from seeing this.
@Terry8150 I have no followers. We should follow Christ. In a sense, one who sins by professes to believe in Christ is an unbeliever. But I recognize the difference between WILLFULLY sinning in complete rejection of the gospel and Christ versus sinning by falling into temptation of the fleshly desires. Nonetheless, the penalties for both are EXACTLY THE SAME when the believer falling into temptation fails to repent and KILL that sin in his life.
@KingdomChristian Apply what you believe to the walk. All the verses you use to try and show a believer can lose their salvation and go to hell again, against the free gift of eternal life, should be applied to what is true about what happens to the believer in house, in the family. There is distinction in a great house between vessels. SOME to honor, SOME to dishonor. Still in the house.
@Terry8150 But the distinction between honor and dishonor lies in what we do to build the kingdom. Sin isn't even a part of that equation. NOTHING sinful can enter the kingdom. A believer who sins CEASES to be a part of the household of God! You have switched spiritual fathers. Are you telling me you can be a practicing, unrepentant murderer and still make it to heaven? A practicing, unrepentant child molester? You can ONLY be forgiven of sins that are forsaken!
@shiphrahhopeful EXACTLY! Paul was saying the Galatians didn't NEED to adhere to Mosaic Law because they already HAD righteousness by FAITH. But Judaizers were trying to entrap them back into slavery to the LAW and they were already FREE! Conditional security is definitely NOT a works salvation because is is ONLY AFTER we have a saving faith in Christ's atonement that we can THEN begin to produce righteousness in CHRIST. Every challenge to SIN is really an opportunity to choose RIGHTEOUSNESS!
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Calvinism/Doctrines of Grace/Reformed Theology are from the pit of Hell...they are heresies that make God Almighty a sinner and not just a sinner but the Author of ALL sin.
Every child raped....every women beaten...every person murdered...every deceitful business deal...every cruelty man has done, was authored by God. It is a blasphemous false religion and many otherwise fine Bible teachers are promoting it today. MacArthur, Sproul, Piper, are some of them. Flee and Repent of Calvinism!!
willpower242 1 week ago
@highlyfavoredone2 and those who believe OSAS have no understanding of WHAT their inheritance is and how the Jews stand as our warning for how they failed to inherit. Read Hebrews and 1 Corinthians
droptozro 2 weeks ago
@brianhyde63 That's Paul describing his life in the past as a Pharisee under the law... Look at the context and who he is addressing(rom 7:1)
droptozro 2 weeks ago
Eternal insecurity is for losers
highlyfavoredone2 4 weeks ago
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brianhyde63 4 weeks ago
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brianhyde63 4 weeks ago
.. than the first ! 1 john 2 4-7 he who says "I know him" yet disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps his word , in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: he who says he abides in him aught to walk in the same way in which he walked." This is the problem with "smorgasbord" bible interpretation! Taking one line from one letter and one line from another, DOES ANYONE READ ANY OTHER DOCUMENTS IN THIS WAY?
1allstarman 1 month ago
Do you have to be a Calvinist to believe in eternal security?
tiredoldcrow 2 months ago
@tiredoldcrow no
RUdigitized 1 month ago
@tiredoldcrow The Bible speaks both of predestination and free will. Its not that the authors are confused, but rather that they were together. I recommend a book called Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God by J.I. Packer
steveoho 1 month ago
Those who do not believe in the eternal security of the saints are actually proving their distrust of Jesus Christ who said: "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one." (Joh 10:29-30). Distrust is nothing but unbelief which is the very thing that damns one to hell. Jesus said: "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin,: Of sin, because they believe not on me; (Joh 16:7-9)
lessingtom 3 months ago
@lessingtom have aread through Ezekiel 18. Where do you get this idea of a lack of trust in Jesus. Does He not require our obedience and faithful service? Nobody snatching us out of Jesus's hands? Our freewill choices can lead to our own destruction, agree?
34craigjan 3 months ago
@Mirewood that would propably be an evidence of false convert,one who didnt know the Lord really.I cant say for sure only God knows but 1 John 2:19 says that it may be that that person wasnt saved,and that he yet has to really get saved.There is hope for salvation while we are here and while we want to repent and trust in Jesus Christ and his finished work on the cross.
MrUrosSrb 3 months ago
@oblahblahsux My friend, how I agree with you. It is madness how human beings can feast on God's precious promises one minute and then vomit them out the next. Dont listen to the voices if men. Listen to God. He is true and cannot lie. Be assured that all that call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ shall be saved (Romans 10:13) the moment they do so. Praise God!
brianhyde63 3 months ago
@brianhyde63 don't take 1 verse out of context and make it salvation. You need to harmonize the scriptures and it says everywhere that one can lose their salvation after being saved. It is conditional. To presume the grace of God as a license to sin is a lie from hell. God commands us to be holy and blameless before Him and to endure to the end.
34craigjan 3 months ago
@34craigjan In that you are wrong. There are literally sconres of scripture which support that our salvation is seccure in Jesus Christ. Its just that you either dont know them or you dont believe God's promises. And who said anything about license to sin except you? I could equally argue that those who believe in conditional salvation advocate sinning and repentance, sinning and repentance sinning and repantance...... so whats the differnce? Check your facts before you attack and slander
brianhyde63 3 months ago
@brianhyde63 are you saying that once saved you're guarenteed salvation even if you turn to wickedness and forsake the Lord? All the scripture I posted refutes OSAS. Have you read the book of 1 John? "Sinning and repentance"? The mindset of a christian shouldn't be to sin and repent means to turn from sin. If someone repents daily, there not repenting but just trampling the blood of Jesus underfoot.
34craigjan 3 months ago
@34craigjan
Jesus said: "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one." (Joh 10:29-30). Are you greater than God? If so, there is at least one person in the entire universe who is greater than God. It's called "YOU." Hence, no one can be ever be certain of their salvation.
lessingtom 3 months ago
@34craigjan Your questions show an alarming ignorance of scripture. Did you watch the video or not? It is crystal clear: If you are born again by the Holy Spirit you have been made a NEW CREATURE, old things (a life of sin) have passed away. Essentially you are alleging that the miracle of the new birth is worthless, the Holy Spirit is impotent, and God's is incapable of keeping us from falling. Thats a gross denial of scripture. So, what is the alternative? Simply this; salvation by works.
brianhyde63 3 months ago
@brianhyde63 I do not agree with being made new.Your nature doesnt determine your salvation.Your faith does does verses in corinthians say that God sees you as a new creature.You are still in the flesh.I believe in eternal security tho.Its impossible to lose salvation.
UrosSrbin1 3 months ago
@UrosSrbin1 A-1 agree, but only in part, because 1. salvation is predicated on a new birth and 2 greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world. When we first genuinely believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, then in that moment we pass from condemnation and death to justification and life; being born-again of the Holy Spirit who then SEALS us for eternity for now we have become an adopted son or daughter of God with all the rights and privileges that go with that position,
brianhyde63 3 months ago
@UrosSrbin1 A-2 Clearly, though we have a quickened spirit we have a sinful nature and our soul will be a battleground because the flesh and the spirit will be in perpetual conflict. But unlike when we were helpless sinners we now have all heaven at our disposal making sure that we will persevere. Where sin abounds grace doth much more abound (Rom 5:20) and the Spirit of God that began a good work in us will see to it that He completes what He has started (Phil 1:6).
brianhyde63 3 months ago
@UrosSrbin1 A-3 This is where our confidence plays an important role otherwise we will have no peace or assurance. As regenerate Christians we know that in us there dwells no good thing and we are often be greatly distressed because of it (Rom 7) but we also recognise that it is Christ's work to keep us for we can do nothing of ourselves (Jn 15:1-14) -- it is all of Christ. As many as are led by the Spirit it is evidence that they are the sons of God (Rom 8:14) -- if not they need the rebirth.
brianhyde63 3 months ago
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@brianhyde63 Spirit indwells any1 who believes.Whoever calls upon the name of the lord shall be saved.Amen.
MrUrosSrb 3 months ago
@brianhyde63 There dwells in us no good thing? where did you get that crap ? is it not now christ now dwelling in us? as paul said ? the mistake the "eternal security" doctriners is making is this. you are Saved by grace , you are saved from the perilous waters by the life ring of christ .THEN WHAT? you continue to live your life right ?in christ or satan? 1 cor 15 Now I would remind you, bretheren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel ,..... By which you were saved , IF YOU HOLD FAST!!!
1allstarman 1 month ago
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@1allstarman You sir need to watch not only your language but what you are calling "crap".
"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) DWELLS NO GOOD THING: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not Romans 7
brianhyde63 4 weeks ago
@oblahblahsux Galatians2: 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.
ElectedWatcher 3 months ago
Hibbity Hu Blah!
Sonny832 5 months ago
To as many as he FOREKNEW them he did predestinate, he knew all who would beliee in him before this world was made, he would be stupid to halfway or 3/4 way predestinate you if he already did it and knew it before we were even born, No one can even believe in Jesus unless the father draws them to, its his doing ot ours, so it also will be his doing in keeping us forever, if he says i will not lose one or any,do you think you can outdo God and say yes he will lose one.just because you says so.
Ohreallynow100 5 months ago
Funny Hebrew 4:4-6 is adressed at the Hebrews, not gentails. That why it start to the hebrews.
wprez240 5 months ago
now in Hebrews 6:4-6 i don't see were the blood of Jesus Christ is when John 6:53-54 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day now we see here that if a true believer could lose God Holy Spirit Jesus Christ Salvation then Jesus would of blow it in John 6:53-54 but Jesus did not blow it
Dale65378 6 months ago
in Hebrews 6:4-6 says For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. right now i have read this verse over and over now were in this verse dose it speak about the blood of Jesus
Dale65378 6 months ago
2 Timothy 4:18 and palms 32:7 says this And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.Thou art my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble; thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah Ok if we can lose God Holy Spirit Jesus Christ Salvation then God Holy Spirit Jesus Christ would then leave us and not ever help us out in Trouble and we can never have Deliverance for all sin
Dale65378 6 months ago
i would like to see were it says in the BIBLE this said Then if you don’t overcome sin and you don’t endure to the end you can be blotted out of the Lamb’s book of life. were dose that say in the BIBLE that Then if you don’t overcome sin and you don’t endure to the end you can be blotted out of the Lamb’s book of life. i want Scripture for this said Then if you don’t overcome sin and you don’t endure to the end you can be blotted out of the Lamb’s book of life.
Dale65378 6 months ago
well said Dough Eaton preach the truth i got so much out of this and i strongly believe that a true believer born again Christian can never be lost and never lose God Holy Spirit Jesus Christ Salvation plus what u said Brother Dough Eaton when u said about those who teach that u can lose your Salvation and u said they are brother's and sister's in Christ i don't believe that why is i was kicked out of church because i believe u cannot lose God Holy Spirit Jesus Christ Salvation
Dale65378 6 months ago
the verse I sent was talking of a person escaping the pollutions of the world ( sin ) thru knowldge of Christ by becoming a christain then turn around and get tangled in the world again and it said it was better for a person not to have known the truth . why because now the satan will take a stronger hold to keep you and some people dont come back to God and I know a few people who still havent .
firefighter40ish 6 months ago
yes we are kept saved by our works for faith without works is dead being along James 2 v 20 and 24 and we'll be judged by our works 2 cor. 5 v 10 . for we are commanded to do them if we love christ John 14 v 15 and Luke 6v46 and matthew 28v20 . we abuse our liberty in Christ daily if thats the way you want to phrase it by sinning thats why 1 john 1v 9 exists and the versuses i stated have nothing to do with the abusing of our liberty in Christ the way you stated it .
firefighter40ish 6 months ago
@firefighter40ish Faith is dead without works.But salvation isnt.The moment u accept Christ as savior and lord,from that moment u are saved.
MrUrosSrb 5 months ago
@MrUrosSrb Where does the bible say anyone is automatically saved despite how we live? You are deceived. You need to read your bible friend. Read Ezekiel 18, Romans 6, 8, 11, 1 Tim 4, 2 Tim 4, 2 Pet 2, Hebrews 6 & 10, John 15:1, and the book of 1st John.
34craigjan 3 months ago
@34craigjan I am not saying that u should sin,im saying that the work on the cross completely covers that.There is no possibility of losing salvation,thats just impossible.
MrUrosSrb 3 months ago
@MrUrosSrb did you read Hebrews 10:26-31?"For if we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there remains NO MORE sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgement and fervor of fire which is to consume the adversaries."By how much do you think he will be thought worthy of worse punishment who has trampled underfoot the Son of God."For we know Him who said, Vengeance is Mine, I will repay and the Lord will judge "His people".
34craigjan 3 months ago
@MrUrosSrb "I am the true vine. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes it away. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If one does not abide in Me he is cast out as a branch and is dried up and are cast into the fire.(John 15:1-6).
34craigjan 3 months ago
@34craigjan
Paul says: "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." (2 Co 5:17). Can a new creation become an old one again? If so, then Christ's construction of the new creation is shaky and unreliable. The phrase "in Me" in John 15 does not mean the same thing as "in Christ." Here it is part of the metaphor of the Vine and means "every person who professes to be My disciple is not necessarily a true follow." Remember Judas?
lessingtom 3 months ago
@lessingtom ah, Jesus was very clear in John 15 saying "whoever" does not abide in Me will be like the branch that does not bear fruit and is to be cut down and thrown in the fire. A person MUST remain in Him to be saved and endure to the end.
34craigjan 3 months ago
@34craigjan
Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? (Gal 3:3)
lessingtom 3 months ago
@MrUrosSrb "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he shall abound; but from him who does not have, even that which he has shall be taken away from him. And cast out the useless servant into outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and knashing of teeth."(Matt 25:14-30) Jesus is speaking of the talents he gives us in this passage.
34craigjan 3 months ago
@34craigjan
The fact that the worthless servant did not want to deposit the talent he was given in a bank where it would be recorded that it belonged to his Master, proves that he had no faith in his Master. He was not saved and therefore could not have lost his salvation.
lessingtom 3 months ago
@MrUrosSrb "Rightly said: they(Jews) were broken of because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you. Behold then the kindness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but on you, the kindness of God, IF you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off." (Romans 11:20-22)Do you see the condition of His forgiveness?
34craigjan 3 months ago
@34craigjan
Israel did not "continue in God's kindness" and was cut off. Had they been irretrievably lost some of them would never have been able to be grafted in again. To me this sounds that they lost their salvation because of their unbelief but would again be grafted in through faith. Does this refute Hebrews 6: 1-8? The Jews held Him up to contempt and trampled underfoot his blood but many of them will be grafted in again through faith. What is to be? OSAS or OLAL?
lessingtom 3 months ago
@lessingtom if you read through Romans 11, He warns us that "if" we don't continue in His goodness, we also will be cut off. That statement is conditional upon us abiding in Him. It doesn't mean once we are that we can't be grafted in again as it states however.
34craigjan 3 months ago
@34craigjan
The Olive Tree is not Jesus Christ. Romans 11:12 says "Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?" (Rom 11:12). The Jews' cutting off from the Olive Tree benefited the entire Gentile world. Does that mean that every single Gentile was grafted into Jesus when the Jews were cut off. If that were so it would mean that every single Gentile was/is/will be saved. That's preposterous.
lessingtom 3 months ago
@34craigjan
To what degree must you continue in his goodness to remain saved? - 99.95%. 99.99% or 100%. I am sure you would agree that no one is capable of continuing in his goodness 100%. So any dissenter can be cut of and grafted in again and again and again ad infinitum. At what stage does God say "Ichabod?" Stop relying on yourself to remain faithful to Jesus Christ. "Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall." When you think you stand your fall is near.
lessingtom 3 months ago
@MrUrosSrb "And yet have fallen away, to renew themselves again unto repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God and putting Him to open shame. For the earth, which drinks the rain which often comes upon it and produces vegetation suitable to those for whose sake also it is cultivated, partakes of blessing from God. But if it brings forth thorns and thistles, it is disapproved and near a curse, whose end is to be burned.(Hebrews 6:1-8)
34craigjan 3 months ago
@MrUrosSrb "For if having escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ but having again been entangled in these, they are defeated, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than, knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. Like the dog turning to his own vomit and the washed sow wallowing in the mud."(2 Pet 2:17-22)
34craigjan 3 months ago
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@34craigjan
2 Peter 2:17-22 should be read in tandem with Romans 1:18, 19: "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them." They are false teachers who know the truth but suppress it to lead further astray the unsuspecting professing Christians.
lessingtom 3 months ago
@MrUrosSrb
"Jesus answered and said unto them, 'This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.'
(Joh 6:29). Faith is a work that God requires of the sinner in order to be saved.
lessingtom 3 months ago
@lessingtom Faith is the only thing needed for salvation.You cant add to what Christ finished on the cross.When was dying on the cross,he said: 'IT IS FINISHED'.Finished means finished,there is no adding to what Christ did.Simply believe he is the son of God,that he died for sin,and resurrected 3 days later.Simple as that.Thats the gospel message.
MrUrosSrb 3 months ago
@MrUrosSrb And the wonderful part about all of that is faith is a gift from God so there is absolutely no room left for us to boast ourselves and our ability.
LaneCh 3 months ago
@LaneCh What do you say to those who bring up "departing from the faith" or "falling away"? I believe in eternal security but I'm trying to explain it to someone who believes you can loose salvation. Some of the verses used are Heb 3:7-19, 1 Timothy 4:1, and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. Any advice, further videos or articles would be of help thanks.
Figsx 2 months ago
The only eternal security a Christian has is if he abides in Christ!
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Gate2enter4life47 6 months ago
If you are in the book of life you can be blotted out. Is your name in the book of life? Then if you don’t overcome sin and you don’t endure to the end you can be blotted out of the Lamb’s book of life.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Gate2enter4life47 6 months ago
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
christisking21 7 months ago
yes you can loose your salvation . its in the Bible read rev 2v10 it says remainful faithful unto death ! if im unfaithful then guess where i go . i proved it in 30 seconds by the time i typed it . read 2 peter 2 v. 20 thru 23 .
firefighter40ish 7 months ago
@firefighter40ish If what you're saying is true, then we are "kept saved" by our works. The verse you quoted is to remind us not to abuse our liberty in Christ, by thinking we can give place to the flesh. Paul, the apostle addressed this.
88momart 6 months ago
37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. John 6:37
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 12:32
21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:21
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12
ydnar0591 7 months ago
God who is all knowing and all seeing and knew us from before the foundation of the world, sees our entire life from cradle to grave ...so when we call upon the Name of the Lord {Acts 2:21 & Romans 10:13} and truly confess Christ and believe God has raised Jesus from the dead we are "Saved" and turn from self to God he saves us just like he did the criminal on the cross, knowing our whole lives at the time we are saved. God does not make mistakes, nor casts out who comes to him ..John 6:37.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
If a Christian is in bed with a whore committing adultery, and during the very act of intercourse a stray bullet from the gun of a drive-by shooter strikes him in the head and kills him instantly, will he go to heaven or hell?
If a Christian "forgive not every one his brother their trespasses" will he go to heaven or hell?
If a Christian "shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost" will he go to heaven or hell?
wezand2 8 months ago
i am a son, and the lord came to save first and condem the wicked. man always likes to take pride in their assurance because thet think they are right before God , the truth is; it is christs life that saves us and God is pleased with his work and our good works do not keep us but proves our position IN Christ. Persaverance is our sanctification along with learning His word. If you would like to read my testimony where the devil tried to make me apostate check my youtube site and click on link
eternitywithjesus888 8 months ago
YES YOU CAN LOOSE SALVATION!!!!!!!
You can become unfaithful servant who will be thrown into lake of fire-
2. In revelation But the cowardly, the unfaithful, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their part is in lake of fire.
imwhoim100 9 months ago
@imwhoim100 Where does it say these are saved people?
Hunter8074 8 months ago
@Hunter8074 , there is a such thing as departing from the faith after genuinely being saved. If anyone dies in their sin without having repented, they will NOT see God. Christ saves from sin, not in sin. Read Ezekiel 18 or Matt 7:21-29. Hebrews 12:14 says"without holiness NO man shall see the Lord" Jesus said you MUST persavere until the end to be saved (Matt 24)
34craigjan 8 months ago
Yes You can!!! Pauls writes, BELOVED CHILDREN
Efesians 5,5
5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
ALL OF THESE THINGS A TRUE BELIEVER CAN START DOING!!!!! DON"T BE DECEIVED!!!
imwhoim100 9 months ago
Yes You can loose salvation! 1st Tim 6;10,21 You can Withdraw from your faith
2. You can fall away from grace Galat. 5;4
3. You can Loose faith and fall away in the day of temptation Luk 8,13
4. You can Leave the righteous way and follow path of Balaam 2 Petr 2;15
5. You can be mislead into the path of satan 1 Tim 5,15
6. You can be cut off from tree, as branch without fruit, and be thrown to fire John 15,6.
7. You can become wicked and unfaithful and fall away from God Hebrs 3;12
imwhoim100 9 months ago
@imwhoim100 John6:37-40,Notice Jesus says I loose no one,Philippians1:6.God will NOT finish his work in you he started? Romans5:1-2,Justified.Colo1:14,Colo1:20.Romans8:1,,14-17,,,38-39.John 19:30.It is finished.Ephesians1:13,Till when,Ephesians4:30.Ephesians1:7,1 John1:7-10.Looks like Jesus did it all on the Cross.
Hunter8074 8 months ago
Salvation is by grace through faith plus nothing else.
If one is not saved once and for all, then one was and is not saved at all.
Now to him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Jude 1:24,25
voicekol 9 months ago
@voicekol Once saved ? always saved? You are Totally Mislead!!! Read Scriptures!!!! they are full of warnings!!! about loosing your salvation!!!!!
imwhoim100 9 months ago
Most edifying and comforting but why do we see fit to constantly debate this issue is it not because of that which is written?
MrNewkingjames 9 months ago
@kingdomChristian- Jesus said he would HE would finish the good work in you HE started, HE started , none of us came to christ without his father drawing us to, his father drew us to, and ALL of the father giveth to me i shall lose NONE , HE said I WILL not lose NONE , so Jesus is a liar hey, again I will not lose ANY I not you or me he saisd I will not lose any of ALL the fathe giveth to me. once we believe its on him to keep us not on us, we can lose fellowship and rewards not salvation..
Ohreallynow100 9 months ago
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@kingdomChristian- Jesus said he would HE would finish the good work in you HE started, HE started , none of us came to christ without his father drawing us to, his father drew us to, and ALL of the father giveth to me i shall lose NONE , HE said I WILL not lose NONE , so Jesus is a liar hey, again I will not lose ANY I not you or me he saisd I will not lsoe any of ALL the fathe giveth to me. once we believe its on him to keep us not on us, we can lose fellowship and rewards not salvation..
Ohreallynow100 9 months ago
@kingdomChristian- Jesus said he would HE would finish the good work in you HE started, HE started , none of us came to christ without his father drawing us to, his father drew us to, and ALL of the father giveth to me i shall lose NONE , HE said I WILL not lose NONE , so Jesus is a liar hey, again I will not lose ANY I not you or me he saisd I will not lsoe any of ALL the fathe giveth to me. once we believe its on him to keep us not on us, we can lose fellowship and rewards not salvation.
Ohreallynow100 9 months ago
as many as he foreknew them he did predestinate , you cannot be half presdestinated or 3/4 . God knew ALL who would believe on his son Jesus before the world began, anyone who accepts Jesus was predestinated period, and romans 8-28 says NOTHING past or future will separate us from his Love, also Romans 8-38,39 God works ALL things for Good for those who Love the Lord, and if he loses any , that is not working it for thier Good period...we can lose rewards and fellowship but not salvation.
Ohreallynow100 9 months ago
Ok lets see now, Jesus said no man cometh unto me unless my father which sent me draws him, so none of us could even believe Jesus is the only way unless the father drwew us to, that is his doing right not ours, now Jesus follows that up with and " ALL " that the father giveth to me i shall not lose " ANY" Jesus said ALL not some or maybe a few or one, he said i will not lose ANY. and Jesus is the one who started the good work in us and said he will finish it ..HEBREWS 6:18 God cannot Lie
Ohreallynow100 9 months ago
@Ohreallynow100 TRUE: We are drawn to Christ. Jesus said if He be lifted up He would do that and He does. TRUE: Jesus will not LOSE any that the Father gives Him. TRUE: Jesus is faithful to complete the work he began in us. TRUE: God cannot and does not lie. But none of these statements negates the fact that we must believe continually (not just one-off easy-believism!), hold fast til the end, overcome the world by our faith and the blood of Christ, purify our hearts, and many others "DO's".
KingdomChristian 9 months ago
@KingdomChristian - well you have to be calling Jesus a liar then, he said he would not lose any, and as far as believing continually, that also is his doing, seeing as he said i will finish the good work i started in you, it also says as soon as we believe we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise for Security and Preservation, a stamp of ownership that we are his forever...we are to do things but all we do is also his doing , not ours...apart from me you can do nothing Jesus said,
Ohreallynow100 9 months ago
@Ohreallynow100 Scripture is QUITE clear...it is GOD who saves us by atoning blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. We were without hope and of no power to save ourselves, fully doomed. Yet, God also clearly expects US to do certain things to prove our faith such that it is more than mere lip service. There are clearly "conditions" attached to our salvation which must be met by us. The preaching of an unconditional eternal security gained merely in professing a "belief" in Christ is null and void.
KingdomChristian 9 months ago
"Once saved always saved" is a lazy man doctrine and is false. A person can be saved from their sins and then turn from God (Hebrews 6:4-6; Hebrews 10:26-29; 2 Peter 2:2-22).
ChristopherMillz 10 months ago
@ChristopherMillz So then you must believe that committing even 1 sin negates the work of the cross? And if you lose your salvation each and every time that you sin (either knowingly or unknowingly), then you have to keep confessing your sins without ceasing and re-gaining your salvation many times throughout the day. Is that right? Because YOU, ChristopherMilz, sin MANY times throughout the day. And should you die the instant after your next one, do you believe Jesus will forsake you?
Tobytuber 10 months ago
@Tobytuber No, not necessarily. I believe God is more fair, merciful and forgiving than that. Maintaining a repentant heart and forsaking sin is an important factor to maintaining salvation though. There is a difference between someone who has been saved from their sins and is trying to follow Christ but may mess up every now and then compared to someone who was on that same path but failed to stay on it and strayed away from Christ... or saying it is ok to sin because one is "saved".
ChristopherMillz 10 months ago
@ChristopherMillz Good answer. However, I do not believe the proponents of OSAS believe it is a license to sin as some that have problems with it have put it. If someone has truly been saved they will grieve whenever they do sin, confess and ask for forgiveness. Those people cannot lose their salvation. On the other hand, we all know people who consider themselves Christians, but you never see the fruit. You never hear the Lord on their lips. These are the ones that were never truly saved.
Tobytuber 10 months ago
@Tobytuber Very few would ever readily admit to it, you are correct. However, the net result is still the same...OSAS is used by the heart of man to create just that...a license to sin. I know because I did precisely that for more than 10 years. The heart is truly deceitful and given half a chance, we will take any false doctrine that comforts us IN our sin and allows us to THINK we are saved while we remain fully enjoying all the "benefits" of our sinful actions. OSAS is DEADLY....PERIOD.
KingdomChristian 9 months ago
@Tobytuber The simple fact is that you cannot honestly ignore all the warnings of scripture given to help us AVOID deceiving ourselves and against remaining in our sinful ways. I have not done a count, but I suspect the New Testament would be noticeably smaller if all the warnings to "hold fast", "endure to the end", "guard your hearts", "purify yourselves", "overcome", and the like were removed.
KingdomChristian 9 months ago
@ChristopherMillz I agree with all that you say here and this is why GOD is the ultimate righteous judge of the universe, yet we are still admonished to "know" them by their fruit and to remove those from our fellowship who are living in open sin. One other little point is that we need to be careful about calling sin "a mistake" or "mess up". While sin certainly IS a mistake, this terminology injects a wrong view of sin that tends to enable us to subconsciously discount its deadly effects on us.
KingdomChristian 9 months ago
@Tobytuber One sin has the power to bring spiritual death apart from the forgiveness through the atonement of Christ...that is a scriptural fact (Ezek 18:20). Defenders of OSAS use the "one sin" strawman argument all the time. Sin is SIN...there is no specified number of commissions that we are "allowed" before a death sentence is incurred. God is merciful, longsuffering, and patient, but it is well within His right to impose the death penalty for even ONE sin, should He so choose.
KingdomChristian 9 months ago
@Tobytuber It is spiritually dangerous for us to begin playing a guessing game with God's judgment, trying to estimate when God is going to impose a lawful death sentence upon his children who continue to put Him to the test. In God's mercy, I think it is clear that He most often strives with us at length (for me, over 10 years!) to bring us back to repentance and in compliance with His laws, but again, it is HIS prerogative to say when enough is enough and make righteous judgment.
KingdomChristian 9 months ago
@Tobytuber For you to make this statement: "Because YOU, ChristopherMilz, sin MANY times throughout the day." Is a very presumptuous accusation on its face and I think quite worthy of an apology to ChristopherMilz, unless he has previously admitted to such. Did you perhaps make such a statement based on your own personal experience? If so, then you must examine whether you truly be in the faith or not and repent if necessary as instructed in a multitude of scriptures. 2 Cor 13:15-Acts 17:30-31
KingdomChristian 9 months ago
@KingdomChristian Presumptuous accusation? Not at all, just merely stating a fact. Unless he suddenly developed the ability to walk on water, Christopher is no different than you and I. For all intents and purposes, each and everyone of us sin every day. Sometimes by willful disobedience and active commission, sometimes by omission, and sometimes without even realizing that we have. And yes, that goes for you too Mr. KingdomChristian. Until we are perfected.
Tobytuber 9 months ago
Jesus said no man cometh unto me unless my father who sent me draws him, meaning we cannot even believe in Jesus unless God the father draws us to, then he says and ALL the father giveth to me i will not Lose ANY ...add to this none of us can be half predestinated . God forknew all who would accept his sons sacrifice.
Paul also said being condfident of this one thing, that HE which began a good work in you shall finish it, the word HE not you nor i will finish it....
Ohreallynow100 10 months ago
@Ohreallynow100 Your monergistic slant fails to account for the MULTITUDE of other scriptures that admonish US to do our part in turning to God and remaining/abiding in Him...clearly showing a decidedly synergistic reality in scripture. You cannot safely use solely a "proof-text" approach to exegesis and hermeneutics and expect to come away with the whole counsel of God.
KingdomChristian 9 months ago
@Terry8150 You are clearly complicating these very simple scriptures. There are only two places we can go after this is all said and done. We are either in the first resurrection or the 2nd resurrection (2nd death or Lake of Fire). That's it... If we overcome, we go to the first resurrection and the works we did for the kingdom are tried by fire. If they survive, we will be "of honor", if not, then "of dishonor". If we do NOT overcome, we are in the 2nd resurrection, LAKE OF FIRE.
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
@Terry8150 This is the single most ludicrous and unbiblical statement you have made thus far, that men can be saved, yet walk in sin. And all your arguments for this are that supposedly believers who sin will lose "rewards or crowns". Based on WHAT SCRIPTURE? Did you not read all the scriptures in Revelation that show what the rewards are for those who OVERCOME? You either overcome SIN, or you do NOT...you either get INTO the kingdom...or you do NOT. There is no special place for halfway.
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
@Terry8150 John says he wrote those things so that we would NOT SIN, that was the objective! THAT was the "issue"....NOT ACTIVELY SINNING.... John wanted us and commanded us to CEASE IT, just as Christ Himself said TWICE! Otherwise, worse things will happen to us! What can be worse than the ORIGINAL penalty for sin which is the lake of fire?? The commandments of Christ are not HOLY SUGGESTIONS...they are COMMANDS.
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
God has kept me in Christ every since I put my trust in him. I'm sorry I have little confidence in the flesh but I know I am kept by his Holy Spirit. I will leave it at that!
NotFlaking 11 months ago
@NotFlaking Amen!
Terry8150 11 months ago
@NotFlaking Provided you meet the conditions for continuing in the faith and enduring to the end, I have NO DOUBT that Christ will do His part to keep you according to His promises. But don't ignore the equally sound admonishments in scripture to take heed, lest ye fall, to keep yourself from idols, and the many other clear warnings given to us. If it were not possible for us to fall away AFTER becoming a true believer, the plethora of warnings to the contrary would be pointless.
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
@7olusegun Do you know what a backslider is? It is NOT a person who merely falls into temptation of sin for a time by failing to walk in the Spirit. A backslider is someone who has wholly REJECTED GOD and no longer has any fear of Him. For this person, it is game OVER, unless the Lord chooses to attempt further conviction efforts. But the believer who falls into temptation in their walk, but who has not rejected Christ altogether, they must repent, otherwise they WILL BECOME a backslider.
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@7olusegun This is where hermeneutics comes into play. Your assertion about multiple repentance is refuted by several scriptures and the direct words of CHRIST. See Rev 2:5, 2:16, 2:22, 3:3, 3:19, Luke 17:4. As I said before, I'm sure there is a limit to the mercy of God for repentance, lest there be a license to endlessly sin, but only GOD knows the heart and the time of our departure from this earth and THAT is why we are to utterly put sin to death by the Spirit and overcome the world.
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian Again, there is no license to to endlessly sin because of grace. We are not to sin that grace may abound. In that statement is the thought of the believers judgment. But, the judgment has to do with our works that are judged "bad." The word "bad" means wicked, worthless. This involves even the thoughts and intents of the heart. This is where the point concerning loss is to be focused. There are dire consequences for unfaithfulness. But, we "shall be saved." 1Cor.3:15
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 But the point remains...SIN separates us from SALVATION unless we repent. If we do NOT repent, then eventually sin brings forth it's fruit unto death. God told Adam and Eve, in the DAY they would eat of the tree,, they would surely die. They obviously did not die physically, so the result was SPIRITUAL death. This rule still applies today. Disobedience brings spiritual death BY WAY OF relational separation from God our Father. For LIFE ITSELF is being IN HIM.
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian For the believer, sin separates us from fellowship. And that does mean repentance is in the picture. Repentance is for the believer. The death is not of our relationship to God. Because that is by grace. The death is to inheriting "all things" as a SON. Win Adam sinned, death was spiritual and physical. But remember that God gave Adam a covering. That's a type of Christ. His death covers our sins. That's why as a believer He is the judge of the just. We will be judged.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 God does not WINK at SIN! His grace enables us to be FREE of the penalty of our PAST SIN and to henceforth CEASE FROM SIN. Anytime someone preaches that GRACE enables men to CONTINUE in their sin but retain eternal life that is ANOTHER GOSPEL!! This was not taught by ANYONE in the early church...it began with Augustine and was furthered by Calvin and the Reformation. This is HERESY and is refuted by the entire book of JUDE!
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@Terry8150 YES, you are right! God made a "covering" of animal skins for Adam's sin and it was a "TYPE" of Christ until the REAL THING was to come. And when He DID come, what did John the Baptist say:
Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKETH AWAY the sin of the world. Jesus' sacrifice was a better sacrifice...a better covenant! He doesn't just COVER our sins, he WASHES US CLEAN and ENABLES US to CEASE FROM SIN by His Spirit!
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian Well, your getting there slowly but surely. That's the right word. "Enabled." And, the issue is walking in the Spirit. But, it is a fact that we also can walk in the flesh. This is by choice. But, it is a family thing and carries with it accountability for how we walk. Ultimately, it is inheriting all things that's on the line. Eph.5:5 We are to possess our possessions. Duet.2:31
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 You like to speak in a condescending tone as if you have the preeminence over me in spite of the fact that you fail utterly to provide scripture for your assertions. Colossians 1:18 says that CHRIST is the head of the body, having the preeminence in ALL THINGS, not you. I have one master, Jesus Christ only. Speak as a brother and I will call you such. Speak as a blasphemer and I will rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ.
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian There is no condescending tone intended when I speak. I have never referred to you as part of cult teaching like you did about me. I am using the word to show what I have learned from my own studies. I have never blasphemed the Lord, the Spirit of grace, nor the word of God. Never.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 At least now you admit sin is a CHOICE. The problem is that you continue to defend these presumed "lesser effects" of sin on the believer, limiting them only to loss of rewards, crowns, inheritance. Yet, you fail to realize that our ENTIRE INHERITANCE is tied up in our overcoming the world (SATAN) by two things: 1. The blood of the Lamb 2. Our testimony. Now how do you propose a testimony steeped in sin will do ANYTHING to defeat Satan? No, such only shows FAILURE to overcome!
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian Sin is a choice for the believer. Satan is already defeated. But he seeks to destroy the believer. Overcoming the world by our testimony is what is rewarded. Do not take lightly what will be given to the faithful believer. That's exactly what Satan wants the believer to do.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 Yes, we are ENABLED....IMMEDIATELY by the power of the Holy Spirit...the very MOMENT we believe in Christ. We are commanded to go and sin NO MORE...not to "ease" our way out of sin, little by little as we become "comfortable". We're commanded to BE Holy...not to BECOME Holy! It's time God's people started DOING what God commands instead of toeing the water to see if we like it or not. It's time we STOPPED looking back from the plow!
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian Looking back from the plow has to do with kingdom teaching, which is to be applied to the walk of a believer. It is not about how to be saved or stay saved. Kingdom teaching is about entering into the joy of the Lord. Lots and lots of believers will not be doing that just because they are saved by grace.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 You say there is no license because you know that is an obvious problem, yet you refuse to see how your unscriptural belief system brings a license to sin into BEING. By telling people that a believer can SIN, yet not be in danger of losing HIS SOUL....only his "rewards." As I've further shown, the "REWARDS" are an all-inclusive PACKAGE only for those who OVERCOME SIN, putting it entirely to DEATH. Yet you insist that believers can go on sinning unscathed by the LOSS OF THEIR SOULS!
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian There is no license to sin period. It is not because this is a problem with what I am saying, to sneak in doctrinally something that is not true about grace that saves. Your getting to the hard things to understand now about the believer's walk. The soul is on the line. Since the issue about being born again is a spiritual issue, we now move unto the issue of the soul. That's a different ball game.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 Yes, it always falls back on "gnosis" doesn't it. Fortunately, for those who walk in obedience, the Holy Spirit to LEADS US into all truth, not by our intellect alone, but by His revelation. There is nothing "hard" about believing and obeying God, unless you love your sin and need to protect it with complex theological constructs. You have YET to prove ANY of your "hard things" by SCRIPTURE and you cannot. Please prove me wrong by scripture and I will retract my comments.
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian Your downplaying what is "hard" to understand in scripture.Peter had some problem with even what Paul was writing. 2 Peter 3:16Paul never teaches a child of God loses salvation as a family member.
But, Paul does teach about the walk of a believer, about reward, crowns, and inheritance in the family in the kingdom of Christ and of God.That is not a birth issue.As far as using scripture, my statements are supported by scripture. And they are consistent with truth about our walk.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 Peter had NO problem understanding Paul's words and after receiving the Holy Spirit again, neither do I. Peter affirms that we should equate the longsuffering and forbearance of Christ as SALVATION. Peter then says that some of Paul's writings are hard to understand, but that doesn't mean IMPOSSIBLE! He speaks of those who "are unlearned and unstable" who WREST his writings as they do the OTHER scriptures. Once again, YOU are wresting the very words of PETER to and prove your points!
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian Peter is speaking about what the Lord gave Paul to preach and teach. The height of wrestling with the scripture is teaching against the grace of God that saves by adding works to the message of the gospel.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 What is so "hard to understand" about the SOUL that SINNETH, it shall DIE? The ballgame is OVER if you die in your sins. Being born again IS a spiritual issue, but in order to be TRUE and not FEIGNED, your rebirth must produce FRUIT of the Spirit and works of righteousness by FAITH. Spiritual rebirth must give evidence of same in the natural. Your theology QUITE FALSELY asserts that spiritual rebirth "covers" the ongoing sins in the body as being "under grace." THIS is SIN LICENSE!
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian Salvation is a spiritual rebirth.The fact we are still living in the flesh means we can be controlled by the flesh or sin.That's why we are to put sin to death.The salvation of the soul is to be applied to our walk and is called receiving the end of salvation by Peter.This is the result of putting sin to death in the flesh. But the spirit is saved and this is by grace.The believer is still held accountable for how we walk, which is to be judged. This pertains to inheritance.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 The believers are supposed to walk like they truly BELIEVE and be an EXAMPLE to the UNbelievers in obedience to the gospel. Your brand of theology exposes the very reason so many "Christians" are living in DEFEAT against SIN. They simply see no reason to RESIST the devil since they have so-called "grace" which assures them of their "position" in the kingdom while they are "practicing" FILTH worthy of eternal damnation! Those in disobedience don't HAVE the Spirit and no power to STOP!
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian Grace assures a person is saved from an eternity in hell. Position in the kingdom is at issue. The sinning saint cannot expect to enter the kingdom age because they are saved by grace. And the sinning saint cannot expect to know what it means to inherit all things. And, the sinning saint will not be able to call New Jerusalem home. The sinning saint in disobedience has the Spirit , but grieves, quenches, or does despite unto the Spirit of grace.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 And you forget two things with your "bad = wicked" analogy. BAD WORKS are the fruit of BAD TREES....WICKED TREES. Such trees are CUT DOWN and BURNED. And we know where the wicked end up, not having their names written in the Lamb's book of Life....with Satan, the beast, false prophet, death and hell....the Lake of Fire! Absolutely AMAZING that you continue to defend SIN and deny the penalty FOR sin. I surely hope no one believes your words unto their eternal damnation.
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian Never, never defend sin. That's your attempt to deceive others concerning what I am saying. The judgment seat of Christ is not to figure out whose saved and who isn't. The works Paul talked about being bad included his own. The believer's walk is held accountable and could experience shame, pain, sorrow, tears, and loss of inherited rights, the rewards of an overcomer, and the things that pertain to eternity, but never being kicked out of the family.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 Again, your opinions stand in direct opposition TO SCRIPTURE:
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Don't even TRY to say this is just believers it is EVERY knee and tongue.
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian It is a fact of scripture that the house of God is judged first. 1 Peter 4:17 It is a fact, that every knee and tongue shall confess to God. But, the believer gets judged first.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 Do you not see that the very verse you quote indicates your ERROR?
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Peter shows by his inspired words that those who "obey not the gospel of God" are NOT OF the house...it is obedience to the gospel that determines RELATIONSHIP IN THE FAMILY OF GOD.... Do you STILL not SEE? Your SIN separates you OUT of the house!
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian 1 Peter 4:17 is about judgment concerning the house of God.And judgment begins at us. Nothing there to hard to see.Obeying not the gospel has to do with the gospel.It is not to be applied to what is true about our walk as part of the house of God.Sin does not separate us from the house of God. Nothing separates us from the love of God. Nothing.The separation or distinctions come when we apply obedience to what will be true for those in the house of Christ. Two different things.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 This is in no way malicious on my part. I have no interest in deceiving anyone. This is about false doctrine being spread to the body of Christ. We are to contend for the faith delivered ONCE to the Saints. Your private interpretations do not line up with scripture in nearly every point. You have failed to give ANY valid scriptural basis for your false assertion that a sinning believer only suffers a "loss of rewards" when scripture clearly says otherwise. James 5:19-20, Ezek 18:20
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian Your calling my application of scripture a private thing. That's just another way to try and make others thing your right. I have shown many scriptures that show this discussion is about our walk. Your disrespect for reward, crowns, and inheritance yet to be given the believer shows you are stuck in the first principles.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 I don't disagree that "walk" is important, it is VERY important, but where you err is in the fact that you refuse to accept CLEAR scripture that defines what SIN IS...and what it DOES to the eternal soul. There is nothing in scripture or the Atonement of Christ which EVER altered the effects of SIN for believers over unbelievers. The effect is ALWAYS ETERNAL DEATH. To simply say that a one time belief in Christ nullifies that is dangerous and NOT biblical.
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
@Terry8150 God's grace and the Atonement of Christ are FULLY EFFICACIOUS for PAST SINS. His Holy Spirit empowers us to walk forward from THAT point to eradicate sin from our lives. We are not commanded just to DECREASE the amount of sin in our lives...we care commanded to CEASE and OVERCOME. There is NO PLACE in the kingdom for anyone who FAILS those commands. For ONLY overcomers will receive ANY of the stated blessings listed in Revelation. If you will note, they ALL pertain to the Kingdom.
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
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Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
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Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
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Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
@Terry8150 We must overcome sin (the world) in order to receive ALL THINGS...including, but not limited to:
Eating of the tree of LIFE!
Avoiding harm from the Second Death (Lake of FIRE!)
The Morning Star...which is CHRIST HIMSELF!
He will be our God and we will be HIS SONS!
If you think for ONE SECOND that the entirety of our inheritance in the kingdom isn't tied up in OVERCOMING, then you are sadly mistaken. Those who fail to overcome suffer the loss of ALL THINGS, including ETERNAL LIFE.
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
@Terry8150 Perhaps you mean well, and I don't believe you would KNOWINGLY defend sin, that's not what I'm saying. But your theology DOES defend sin and unscripturally RECLASSIFIES SIN as a non-event to the believer in terms of SALVATION, and THAT is just not true! Christ's Atonement cleanses us from ALL PAST SIN, but our walk FORWARD in obedience BY THE SPIRIT'S POWER that enables us to be HOLY and CEASE from sin. Do you deny that we are commanded to be holy, perfect, and CEASE from sin?
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian My theology 100 % does not defend sin. Sin affects what the believer is yet to receive. We are to be holy in our walk and put sin to death. Never said otherwise. I'm showing that the believer's walk is accountable and sinning saints can't expect to get what the faithful saint receives just because they are saved by grace. and being saved by grace does not mean the sinning saint escapes punishment. But, we shall be saved. That's an unconditional promise of grace that saves.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 It defends sin to the extent that you no longer believe that SIN can literally RIP YOU OUT OF THE KINGDOM and send you STRAIGHT TO HELL. THAT is how it defends SIN, by making it "comfortable" to those who might then ALLOW SIN in their lives, thinking it only affects "rewards" and not their eternal destiny! Sinners take comfort in falsely believing they can SIN before God and get by with it. It is simply not true...SIN KILLS US...period! There is NO tolerable "loss" involved...
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
@Terry8150 This is why I have been very patient and longsuffering with you...refuting you with scriptures, hoping to turn your heart from this false teaching and also that no one else may read this and take comfort in their sin and end up going to HELL believing your false teachings. This is not "pride" for me, I have other things I could be doing, but this is important for YOU and for those who may be reading. I have no "following" to worry about... I care about YOU and OTHERS!
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
@Terry8150 Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
I lived for the last 10 years of my LIFE in sin, telling myself the EXACT same thing YOU are telling yourself and others. I comforted my guilty conscience by telling myself I was "under the blood" till I eventually even stopped even TRYING to quit sinning.
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
People that permanently fall away did not have saving faith what they had is a FALSE CONVERSION. Even saving faith to believe comes from God. We humans overrate ourselves and take too much credit!
NotFlaking 11 months ago
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KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@NotFlaking That's not true AT ALL. You cannot "fall away" from something you never had to being with. If this were not so, there would be no reason for the many explicit warnings of scripture against it. Salvation is precious...only a BELIEVER can "fall away". Do not allow a false teaching such as OSAS put you into a false sense of security and cause you to lose this precious gift! God will never forsake US, but WE can forsake HIM. See James 5:19-20
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
JESUS MEANT IT WHEN HE SAID HE WOULD NEVER LEAVE US OR FORSAKE US.
My dad was in and out of my life til the day he died. God is not life this.
He promised ETERNAL LIFE not eternal insecurity!
If people want to think God gave them the gift of salvation at 6pm but took it back by 7p then they repent and he gaveit back then they lose it again by 8p then get it back by 9p after repenting again this is crazy thinking to me!
NotFlaking 11 months ago
@NotFlaking Jesus DID mean it when He said he would never forsake us or leave us, but it was CONDITIONAL. Other scriptures clearly show that He WILL deny us, IF we deny HIM. Matthew 10:32-33 are very clear. Be careful of trying to determine God's character in your mind apart from His written Word! You must interpret scripture with scripture. We should NOT be sinning, repenting, sinning, repenting, etc... We are supposed to be HOLY and live righteously by FAITH in the power of the Spirit!
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian Jesus will never leave us nor forsake us.Nothing separates from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Nothing. Denial is in relation to how we walk. Matt 10:32-33 takes place IN heaven. This is about discipleship not salvation. Mt. 10:38. Peter calls this "receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." 1 Peter 1:9 Doesn't say anything there about the spirit. Peter is referring to discipleship. See Matt.16:24-25 So does Jesus refer to disciplship.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 And a believer who SINS is an unsaved believer and technically an UNbeliever. If you truly BELIEVE, then why are you still sinning and condoning sin by your theology? You should be putting to DEATH the deeds of the body...not nursing them along using GODS GRACE as your excuse and by your speech, encouraging OTHERS to do so! This is EXACTLY what Jude speaks of...those who turn the grace of God into lasciviousness.
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian Here you go again, saying what is not true. Don't condone sin. Just showing what will happen to the believer who sins and who sins willfully. That is respect for the grace of God. We are not to sin that grace may abound. That's why the house of God is judged first. 1 Peter 4:17 God takes care of family business before the world is judged at the great white throne. Your doing your best to keep those who follow you from seeing this.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 I have no followers. We should follow Christ. In a sense, one who sins by professes to believe in Christ is an unbeliever. But I recognize the difference between WILLFULLY sinning in complete rejection of the gospel and Christ versus sinning by falling into temptation of the fleshly desires. Nonetheless, the penalties for both are EXACTLY THE SAME when the believer falling into temptation fails to repent and KILL that sin in his life.
KingdomChristian 11 months ago
@KingdomChristian Apply what you believe to the walk. All the verses you use to try and show a believer can lose their salvation and go to hell again, against the free gift of eternal life, should be applied to what is true about what happens to the believer in house, in the family. There is distinction in a great house between vessels. SOME to honor, SOME to dishonor. Still in the house.
Terry8150 11 months ago
@Terry8150 But the distinction between honor and dishonor lies in what we do to build the kingdom. Sin isn't even a part of that equation. NOTHING sinful can enter the kingdom. A believer who sins CEASES to be a part of the household of God! You have switched spiritual fathers. Are you telling me you can be a practicing, unrepentant murderer and still make it to heaven? A practicing, unrepentant child molester? You can ONLY be forgiven of sins that are forsaken!
KingdomChristian 10 months ago
@shiphrahhopeful EXACTLY! Paul was saying the Galatians didn't NEED to adhere to Mosaic Law because they already HAD righteousness by FAITH. But Judaizers were trying to entrap them back into slavery to the LAW and they were already FREE! Conditional security is definitely NOT a works salvation because is is ONLY AFTER we have a saving faith in Christ's atonement that we can THEN begin to produce righteousness in CHRIST. Every challenge to SIN is really an opportunity to choose RIGHTEOUSNESS!
KingdomChristian 11 months ago