Yeah, this was one of the key concepts that contributed to my disillusionment with Christianity: what you believe is far more important than what you do. A man who beats and rapes the shit out of his wife and daughter, then sincerely apologizes to Jesus (not those he actually wronged, btw) and manages to avoid "sinning" again before he dies - is saved! Meanwhile, Gandhi is twisting and burning in eternal agony for the crime of not being a Christian. Something seemed wrong with that logic... :-)
Same here, the concept is too logical to ignore. It was this type of thinking that made me wake up and question, "Is it real?". This and reading the bible.
Oh, and if any Christian can't get the flaws of their religion after hearing this, then there is no hope for them. Surely, this has to make some think about it. Is it possible that we're wrong?
Perfect! I have never heard an Atheist parable. I've heard examples and have thought of some myself, but not that elegantly. 5 Fucking stars! and Favorite'd.
Why is a 7 year old trying to swim in a lake when she knows he can't swim?
So your idea of goodness is how many lives you physically save? I know some awful people who have saved others from drowning. Did Raji ever sin?
So your idea is that someone who has just been on a killing rampage is sincerely going to decide he was all wrong? Your idea that "what have I got to lose" is telling. You think Christianity can be treated like an insurance policy against hell. That's not what it is.
Atheists all think that is the way to see it. But at the churches I go to it is never presented that way. The message is much more about hope, help, Jesus love for us, Christian fellowship, and choosing good instead of evil.
I'm not surprised that your church doesn't present their position the way an atheist presents it -- they no doubt use more flattering terminology, and focus, as you indicate, on the good parts of the religion while glossing over the negatives.
That's not what I asked, however.
What I asked is whether or not it is your position that Joey would go to hell, and that Raji deserves to be there.
Except it simply isn't what they believe at all. Not just terminology. Someone who just wants an insurance policy is not going to get what they want. It doesn't work that way.
"it is your position that Joey would go to hell, and that Raji deserves to be there"
Which you should know we can't answer because of Matthew 7:1-2. Only God judges whether people are damned or not. Generally it does seem like God cares more about who we become over who we were. I kinda like that part of it. None of us knows what other sins Raji committed. I still don't get why you think saving a life makes the person more moral. All kinds of jerks looking for a reward might save someone.
If only God judges, then why do you people come on here telling us we have to convert or burn in hell?
As for the saving a life comment, you ignored his whole life and focused on that one instance? I don't think he was looking for any reward except to know that she is still alive. It's called empathy, something that religion does not have.
Empathy. You should check that word out and see if you are capable of using it in your life towards everyone that you have ever judged against.
Calling it an insurance policy, that's funny. Isn't that the base argument from Christians to Atheists? "What if you're wrong?" What if you have a wreck, better get insurance just in case. If you don't drive, then you don't need insurance, do you? Since it isn't real, you don't need Jesus, do you? Question everything.
"Calling it an insurance policy,... Isn't that the base argument ...? "
There are a billion Christians, so who knows which ones you are familiar with. The base argument for the ones I am around is "Jesus loves you". I don't see many atheists that don't think of the situation as anything but anti-hell insurance. Think of it this way. If there really is a God that made the universe and life itself, would you really want to defy and oppose that God? Whether there is a hell or not, I wouldn't.
One of your superior videos, David. I'm glad you're off the WordPlanter, so called, "debate" because the guy's a baby, not even a child in these types of questions. As you already know, I presume, it will be difficult to find a worthy apologist for any of the Abrahamic religions. That is simply reality. There IS NO reasonable argument in favor of the Abrahamic god. But the fight must be fought and here's to you for taking on all comers, as frustrating as it may be.
Yeah, this was one of the key concepts that contributed to my disillusionment with Christianity: what you believe is far more important than what you do. A man who beats and rapes the shit out of his wife and daughter, then sincerely apologizes to Jesus (not those he actually wronged, btw) and manages to avoid "sinning" again before he dies - is saved! Meanwhile, Gandhi is twisting and burning in eternal agony for the crime of not being a Christian. Something seemed wrong with that logic... :-)
VerdantNight 2 years ago
Same here, the concept is too logical to ignore. It was this type of thinking that made me wake up and question, "Is it real?". This and reading the bible.
MonkeyBallZ214 2 years ago
Oh, and if any Christian can't get the flaws of their religion after hearing this, then there is no hope for them. Surely, this has to make some think about it. Is it possible that we're wrong?
MonkeyBallZ214 2 years ago
Perfect! I have never heard an Atheist parable. I've heard examples and have thought of some myself, but not that elegantly. 5 Fucking stars! and Favorite'd.
MonkeyBallZ214 2 years ago
Why is a 7 year old trying to swim in a lake when she knows he can't swim?
So your idea of goodness is how many lives you physically save? I know some awful people who have saved others from drowning. Did Raji ever sin?
So your idea is that someone who has just been on a killing rampage is sincerely going to decide he was all wrong? Your idea that "what have I got to lose" is telling. You think Christianity can be treated like an insurance policy against hell. That's not what it is.
BattleshipTx 2 years ago
Why does a 7 year old do anything? One of life's great mysteries.
Is it your position that Joey would go to hell, and that Raji DESERVES to be in hell?
DavidJohnWellman 2 years ago
You think Christianity can be treated like an insurance policy against hell. That's not what it is.
You may want to inform the multitude of preacher and believers who pitch it as is it is.
Cafeeine 2 years ago
Atheists all think that is the way to see it. But at the churches I go to it is never presented that way. The message is much more about hope, help, Jesus love for us, Christian fellowship, and choosing good instead of evil.
BattleshipTx 2 years ago
I'm not surprised that your church doesn't present their position the way an atheist presents it -- they no doubt use more flattering terminology, and focus, as you indicate, on the good parts of the religion while glossing over the negatives.
That's not what I asked, however.
What I asked is whether or not it is your position that Joey would go to hell, and that Raji deserves to be there.
DavidJohnWellman 2 years ago
"they no doubt use more flattering terminology"
Except it simply isn't what they believe at all. Not just terminology. Someone who just wants an insurance policy is not going to get what they want. It doesn't work that way.
BattleshipTx 2 years ago
"it is your position that Joey would go to hell, and that Raji deserves to be there"
Which you should know we can't answer because of Matthew 7:1-2. Only God judges whether people are damned or not. Generally it does seem like God cares more about who we become over who we were. I kinda like that part of it. None of us knows what other sins Raji committed. I still don't get why you think saving a life makes the person more moral. All kinds of jerks looking for a reward might save someone.
BattleshipTx 2 years ago
If only God judges, then why do you people come on here telling us we have to convert or burn in hell?
As for the saving a life comment, you ignored his whole life and focused on that one instance? I don't think he was looking for any reward except to know that she is still alive. It's called empathy, something that religion does not have.
Empathy. You should check that word out and see if you are capable of using it in your life towards everyone that you have ever judged against.
MonkeyBallZ214 2 years ago
"If only God judges, then why do you people come on here telling us we have to convert or burn in hell?"
Read Matthew 7: 1-2 to any Christians that do that.
BattleshipTx 2 years ago
Calling it an insurance policy, that's funny. Isn't that the base argument from Christians to Atheists? "What if you're wrong?" What if you have a wreck, better get insurance just in case. If you don't drive, then you don't need insurance, do you? Since it isn't real, you don't need Jesus, do you? Question everything.
MonkeyBallZ214 2 years ago
"Calling it an insurance policy,... Isn't that the base argument ...? "
There are a billion Christians, so who knows which ones you are familiar with. The base argument for the ones I am around is "Jesus loves you". I don't see many atheists that don't think of the situation as anything but anti-hell insurance. Think of it this way. If there really is a God that made the universe and life itself, would you really want to defy and oppose that God? Whether there is a hell or not, I wouldn't.
BattleshipTx 2 years ago
One of your superior videos, David. I'm glad you're off the WordPlanter, so called, "debate" because the guy's a baby, not even a child in these types of questions. As you already know, I presume, it will be difficult to find a worthy apologist for any of the Abrahamic religions. That is simply reality. There IS NO reasonable argument in favor of the Abrahamic god. But the fight must be fought and here's to you for taking on all comers, as frustrating as it may be.
1140Cecile 2 years ago